Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Jon Stevens wrote: | Someone should run an ad in the various newspapers to tell Sun to get a | f*cking clue. Read this stuff? : http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-08-13-009-20-OP -- Mvh, Endre - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: Veltag JSP Taglib
Damon wrote:
>
> I'm curious, why would you use Velocity in a JSP context? What's the value-add over
>Velocity by itself? I18N or multi-channel delivery support via custom taglib?
>
> Thanks, ~dmr
I don't think there is a lot of added value over Velocity itself except
if you don't want to have / use a servlet controller. Then you get the
JSP-as-servlet to be your controller for free, I guess. Given the
simplicity in creating a front controller that renders Velocity
templates (it's something on the order of a few 10's of lines of simple
Java code), that isn't much of a benefit. :) I mean, that's why the
template engines were created - dissatisfaction with JSP.
I assume that if you may have a taglib that is just invaluable, this
would be a way of using the two together. However, since Velocity's
"Expression Language" is so powerful and flexible, wrapping the
functionality of that beloved taglib in a simple public facade would
make it easily accessable to Velocity in a pure Velocity environment.
I think the value of Velocity in a JSP context is actually in the JSP
context - being able to take advantage of the easy access to data
objects, as well as the Velocimacros and simple control directives. I
think the use will happen in situations where developers have an
existing application in JSP and want to use Velocity to enhance or
extend it, have a set of business objects that they want to simply
access (it makes a handy bridge between Java objects and the contrained
data access in JSP), or want to take advantage of features found in
Velocity, such as the Velocimacros or the simple data access.
geir
> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:52:28 -0700
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: FW: Veltag JSP Taglib
>
> I love it.
>
> -jon
>
> -- Forwarded Message
> From: "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:54:33 -0400
> To: velocity-user <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Veltag JSP Taglib
>
> Tonight I committed into the contrib section of CVS a mini-project
> called 'Veltag' which is a JSP taglib that allows you to use VTL within
> a JSP page. I also added some documentation to the Velocity site under
> 'Tools', titled 'IT Manager wants JSP?'. The documentation isn't
> complete, but I have been playing with this for quite some time, and I
> didn't want to put off committing it any longer.
>
> This taglib allows you to put VTL right in your JSP pages :
>
> <%@ taglib uri="/WEB-INF/veltag.tld" prefix="vel" %>
>
>
>
>Velocity!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> #set($mybean = $scopetool.getPageScope("mybean"))
>
> #if(true)
> this is true!
> #end
>
> #foreach($item in $mybean.array)
> $item
> #end
>
>
>
>
> JSP experts : if there are any problems with my JSP or taglib
> nomenclature or setup, I would love to know about it. My JSP is kinda
> weak :)
>
> geir
>
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> System and Software Consulting
> Developing for the web? See http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/
> Well done is better than well said - New England Proverb
>
> -- End of Forwarded Message
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ~dmr
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
Developing for the web? See http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/
Well done is better than well said - New England Proverb
-
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RE: Veltag JSP Taglib
> > I'm curious, why would you use Velocity in a JSP context? > What's the value-add over Velocity by itself? Buzzword compliance. "Sure our webpages are using JSP - look http://www.oursite.com/index.jsp"; - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Veltag JSP Taglib
The value-add is in making IT managers happy (they get J2EE compliance) and
developers happy (they don't have to work with the rest of yuck JSP or get
carpal tunnel by typing long ass Struts tags).
:-)
We all win.
-jon
on 8/14/01 5:47 PM, "Damon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm curious, why would you use Velocity in a JSP context? What's the value-add
> over Velocity by itself? I18N or multi-channel delivery support via custom
> taglib?
>
> Thanks, ~dmr
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:52:28 -0700
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: FW: Veltag JSP Taglib
>
> I love it.
>
> -jon
>
> -- Forwarded Message
> From: "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:54:33 -0400
> To: velocity-user <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Veltag JSP Taglib
>
> Tonight I committed into the contrib section of CVS a mini-project
> called 'Veltag' which is a JSP taglib that allows you to use VTL within
> a JSP page. I also added some documentation to the Velocity site under
> 'Tools', titled 'IT Manager wants JSP?'. The documentation isn't
> complete, but I have been playing with this for quite some time, and I
> didn't want to put off committing it any longer.
>
> This taglib allows you to put VTL right in your JSP pages :
>
> <%@ taglib uri="/WEB-INF/veltag.tld" prefix="vel" %>
>
>
>
> Velocity!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>#set($mybean = $scopetool.getPageScope("mybean"))
>
>#if(true)
> this is true!
>#end
>
>#foreach($item in $mybean.array)
>$item
>#end
>
>
>
>
> JSP experts : if there are any problems with my JSP or taglib
> nomenclature or setup, I would love to know about it. My JSP is kinda
> weak :)
>
> geir
-
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Re: FW: Veltag JSP Taglib
I'm curious, why would you use Velocity in a JSP context? What's the value-add over
Velocity by itself? I18N or multi-channel delivery support via custom taglib?
Thanks, ~dmr
-Original Message-
From: Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:52:28 -0700
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FW: Veltag JSP Taglib
I love it.
-jon
-- Forwarded Message
From: "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:54:33 -0400
To: velocity-user <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Veltag JSP Taglib
Tonight I committed into the contrib section of CVS a mini-project
called 'Veltag' which is a JSP taglib that allows you to use VTL within
a JSP page. I also added some documentation to the Velocity site under
'Tools', titled 'IT Manager wants JSP?'. The documentation isn't
complete, but I have been playing with this for quite some time, and I
didn't want to put off committing it any longer.
This taglib allows you to put VTL right in your JSP pages :
<%@ taglib uri="/WEB-INF/veltag.tld" prefix="vel" %>
Velocity!
#set($mybean = $scopetool.getPageScope("mybean"))
#if(true)
this is true!
#end
#foreach($item in $mybean.array)
$item
#end
JSP experts : if there are any problems with my JSP or taglib
nomenclature or setup, I would love to know about it. My JSP is kinda
weak :)
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
Developing for the web? See http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/
Well done is better than well said - New England Proverb
-- End of Forwarded Message
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~dmr
-
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Re: JavaOne Call for Papers
Ylan Segal wrote: > > > > > I have an idea for a non-JSP talk... > > > > Are you planning to share it? :) Sorry. I figured it would be obvious from my sig and the target of Jon's tireless efforts. I haven't given this deep thought, but I suppose a talk on alternatives to JSP as the view layer in the J2EE web environment would be interesting, focusing on Velocity as an example. Would demonstrate how easily it fits into the conventional and recommended development model, etc etc geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Developing for the web? See http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/ Well done is better than well said - New England Proverb - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JavaOne Call for Papers
> > I have an idea for a non-JSP talk... > Are you planning to share it? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JavaOne Call for Papers
Jon Stevens wrote: > > Maybe people can write some proposals about talks that don't center around > JSP. Last year was nuts...something like 50+ talks on JSP alone. Ewww. > I have an idea for a non-JSP talk... > -jon > > * 2002 JavaOne(sm) Conference Call for Papers > Sun Microsystems is seeking proposals for sessions for the > JavaOne(sm) Conference, to be held March 25-29, 2002. The Call > for Papers process begins August 31, 2001. Deadline for > submitting papers is September 30, 2001. > Call for Papers contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://java.sun.com/javaone/ > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Developing for the web? See http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/ Well done is better than well said - New England Proverb - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JavaOne Call for Papers
Maybe people can write some proposals about talks that don't center around JSP. Last year was nuts...something like 50+ talks on JSP alone. Ewww. -jon * 2002 JavaOne(sm) Conference Call for Papers Sun Microsystems is seeking proposals for sessions for the JavaOne(sm) Conference, to be held March 25-29, 2002. The Call for Papers process begins August 31, 2001. Deadline for submitting papers is September 30, 2001. Call for Papers contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://java.sun.com/javaone/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The other success windows has had is forcing hardware vendors to use > standards. Again... this isn't Windows. This is Microsoft and their monopoly. :(. Of course this is getting off thread ;) > > Windows hasn't been successful. Microsoft's marketing and monopoly engine > > has been successful. They could have thrown *anything* down our throats :) > > It is only been successful because they deliver what users want. I may never > use windows again and same with you but we are definetly a minority in what we > want out of a OS. They only "deliver what users want" because there is *no choice*. Everyone who isn't a computer geek is forced to use either Windows or MacOS. I wouldn't say thts is what people want :( > > > > and the FSF is developing a free JVM clone. > > > > > > Initially there was about 7 JVMs. Currently there is only 3 remaining > > > (kaffe, japhar and gcj). All of them are incompatible, more resource > > > intensive and slower than any vaguely modern JVM. > > > > Do you have evidence to back up your claim that GCJ is "more resource > > intensive". I am not challenging you but I just want to see more docs on > > GCJs performance. > > Well I was actually kinda thinking about resource usage in respect to > kaffe/japhars memory usage. GCJ doesn't have this problem. GCJ still as of a > few months ago was still a LOT slower than IBMs jvm ... even when not using > ClassLoaders. I suspect it was because I was using a lot of small objects and > virtually no primitives. Not sure. IBM's JIT is *very* advanced. The IBM Research papers on it were impressive. The GCJ JIT isn't as advanced but I am sure it will eventually make up for it in time. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose that you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7eW7hAwM6xb2dfE0RAkTOAJ9+Xtsn1ivZysE1ZM/s6oBWniAJCgCfXaNy FOta6Tb2yca9wATS4ztMez4= =n2Yx -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
on 8/14/01 7:30 AM, "Pier P. Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jon Stevens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> on 8/13/01 4:53 PM, "Alex Fernández" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> What would change if Apache used GPL? >> >> I would quit. > > I would follow Jon. > > Pier I'm starting to picture lemmings here... LOL! -jon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
Jon Stevens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > on 8/13/01 4:53 PM, "Alex Fernández" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> What would change if Apache used GPL? > > I would quit. I would follow Jon. Pier - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:41, Kevin A. Burton wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:53, Alex Fernández wrote: > > > > It truly is a convenience. If a user is buying a PC with JRE > > > > preinstalled, they will use it--or explore using programs that use > > > > it. It opens up a lot of potential clients for our OSS projects. > > > > Let's face it, we chose to build a lot of projects on a proprietary > > > > "standard". > > > > > > That's right. And that's why we should be pushing to make Java a true > > > standard. In fact, Sun should be pushing this way too, if they would > > > just realize that only open standards have ever been successful against > > > monopolistic practices. > > > > Sure they have - ever heard of a little OS called Windows .. apparently > > it has a fair bit of marketshare. > > I am sorry. I consider Windows to be a total failure. Most people say > they hate their computers but they really hate Windows. I don't have to > explain the instability, security or other flaws which are present in > Windows. Latest windows is relatively stable out of the box with no tweaking. Windows success is in making computers accessible to the average Joe. And what you call "flaw" may be "feature" to another. The other success windows has had is forcing hardware vendors to use standards. > Windows hasn't been successful. Microsoft's marketing and monopoly engine > has been successful. They could have thrown *anything* down our throats :) It is only been successful because they deliver what users want. I may never use windows again and same with you but we are definetly a minority in what we want out of a OS. > > > and the FSF is developing a free JVM clone. > > > > Initially there was about 7 JVMs. Currently there is only 3 remaining > > (kaffe, japhar and gcj). All of them are incompatible, more resource > > intensive and slower than any vaguely modern JVM. > > Do you have evidence to back up your claim that GCJ is "more resource > intensive". I am not challenging you but I just want to see more docs on > GCJs performance. Well I was actually kinda thinking about resource usage in respect to kaffe/japhars memory usage. GCJ doesn't have this problem. GCJ still as of a few months ago was still a LOT slower than IBMs jvm ... even when not using ClassLoaders. I suspect it was because I was using a lot of small objects and virtually no primitives. Not sure. -- Cheers, Pete *-* * "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, * * and proving that there is no need to do so - almost * * everyone gets busy on the proof." * * - John Kenneth Galbraith * *-* - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:53, Alex Fernández wrote: > > > It truly is a convenience. If a user is buying a PC with JRE > > > preinstalled, they will use it--or explore using programs that use it. > > > It opens up a lot of potential clients for our OSS projects. Let's face > > > it, we chose to build a lot of projects on a proprietary "standard". > > > > That's right. And that's why we should be pushing to make Java a true > > standard. In fact, Sun should be pushing this way too, if they would > > just realize that only open standards have ever been successful against > > monopolistic practices. > > Sure they have - ever heard of a little OS called Windows .. apparently it has > a fair bit of marketshare. I am sorry. I consider Windows to be a total failure. Most people say they hate their computers but they really hate Windows. I don't have to explain the instability, security or other flaws which are present in Windows. Windows hasn't been successful. Microsoft's marketing and monopoly engine has been successful. They could have thrown *anything* down our throats :) > > A standard body issues the standard, then companies choose to comply or > > not. IBM maintains their own JDK, and it doesn't cost Sun anything. > > umm ... they have a few JVMs but theres a significant proportion that is Sun > owned/licensed. Most of the stuff that IBM provides is at the C level... I would bet that 90% of this code comes from SUN. > > and the FSF is developing a free JVM clone. > > Initially there was about 7 JVMs. Currently there is only 3 remaining (kaffe, > japhar and gcj). All of them are incompatible, more resource intensive and > slower than any vaguely modern JVM. Do you have evidence to back up your claim that GCJ is "more resource intensive". I am not challenging you but I just want to see more docs on GCJs performance. > Most are about 3 years behind. Nothing even in the same vacinity as IBMs JVM. Still a proprietary JVM. I am just happy that we at least have alternatives with GCC 3.0. - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 You have no chance to survive, make your time. ha ha ha -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7eNYWAwM6xb2dfE0RAkjXAJ98/0w1Vn7S3fFxvaZyN5fqFZj9rQCdHGo+ 3ffXQ1/81x6pzkfIA7+0VJQ= =/jKu -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 8/13/01 4:53 PM, "Alex Fernández" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > What would change if Apache used GPL? > > I would quit. > > :-) Good to hear you have an open mind ;) ;) - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Live life as if you were going to die tomorrow; Learn as if you were going to live forever. -- Mahatma Ghandi -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7eNUVAwM6xb2dfE0RAmpcAJ0e660CoQfe0LvUT8ExT9QsOA68OwCghOXJ tvTW76WXE+TYeKsCkraZBM4= =1XgD -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
