Re: BSD style code and licensing issues
On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 16:20, Mark R. Diggory wrote: > That last thread seemed such a waste of bandwidth. Unfortunately it > swallowed a discussion we were trying to start concerning Licensing > issues associated with the consideration of using BSD style licensed > code in Apache Projects. > > To formulate a more solid point people can respond to: > > Can BSD licensed code be added to Apache licensed code bases? Can both > licenses be maintained? If so can someone direct me to an example of this? You should read LKML for about six months or so. In this time, a licensing discussion and a "GPL is evil" and maybe even a "why binary code is good/bad/don't care" discussion as a bonus are due to happen (The average brain of the net lasts six months). As far as I can see: BSD code inclusion in ASF code is ok, no strings attached, but there should/must (depends on the BSD license) a notice which the original copyright must be included with the source tree (or even when starting the resulting program; some quite old BSD licenses required this, this is why older AIX/HP-UX boxes displayed a plethora of copyright messages when booting). BTW: I just re-read this conglomerate of politics, ideology, crude examples and pseudo-legal speech that calls itself "LGPL" (http://www.opensource.org/licenses/lgpl-license.php). IMHO, JBoss is in deep sh*t using this license: - JBoss is not a library. But the JBoss Group insists that it is (which they seem to do, because they themselves declare JBoss to be one (they even link the web site cited above) - If it is a library, then the whole § 2 applies. This basically means, that I can write an J2EE server by simply extending all the classes in the JBoss package (but e.g. calling it "Foo J2EE Server") and putting a jboss binary distribution and a file that says: "This product uses code from the JBoss application server" with the appropriate copyright and a link to the JBoss source code repo. - I can redistribute this in compiled (no source code at all) form (§5). I'd say that LGPL is for a language like Java (which has no concept of "linking") a pretty bad choice. In fact, I'd even look forward to JBoss Group trying to prove its claims in court. I'm pretty sure that in the end, the court will sack their own license and they (and all of their customers) will suddenly have an unlicensed products. And, if JBoss is a library, then all programs running in the container are suddently derived works. Which brings a whole new meaning to the concept of linking _AND_ the legal issues of the licensing terms of these programs! ObDisc: IANAL, I just play one at late-night drinking contests. Regards Henning -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire "Außerdem können in Deutschland alle Englisch. [...] so entfällt die Notwendigkeit [...] Deutsch zu lernen." -- Johan Micoud auf die Frage warum er kein Deutsch spricht. (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,273205,00.html) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BSD style code and licensing issues
That last thread seemed such a waste of bandwidth. Unfortunately it swallowed a discussion we were trying to start concerning Licensing issues associated with the consideration of using BSD style licensed code in Apache Projects. To formulate a more solid point people can respond to: Can BSD licensed code be added to Apache licensed code bases? Can both licenses be maintained? If so can someone direct me to an example of this? -Mark robert burrell donkin wrote: On 9 Nov 2003, at 22:01, Mark R. Diggory wrote: Mostly, I'm trying to ascertain the best strategies for donations that will be arising in the near future from projects that are now relicensed using a BSD style license (portions of Colt and RngPack). I am working through details with these individuals and organizations to legally and ethically provide vehicles for the code from these projects to evolve and be included into the math project. This is currently through both individual interaction with the authors to get them to donate and through re-licensing endeavors. So to try to form a clearer question. If code is licensed using the follow style licenses: http://www.honeylocust.com/RngPack/rngpack/LICENSE http://dsd.lbl.gov/~hoschek/colt/license.html With agreement from the authors ,what is the best approach for integrating code under this license into an Apache project? a very good question. now would be a good time for those folks with experience of this issue to take up the batten... I'm slightly stumped, I see no references to a Licensing listserv anywhere in the Apache www site? i suspect that it's a committer-only list. anyone know for sure? - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mark Diggory Software Developer Harvard MIT Data Center http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BSD style code and licensing issues
On 9 Nov 2003, at 22:01, Mark R. Diggory wrote: Mostly, I'm trying to ascertain the best strategies for donations that will be arising in the near future from projects that are now relicensed using a BSD style license (portions of Colt and RngPack). I am working through details with these individuals and organizations to legally and ethically provide vehicles for the code from these projects to evolve and be included into the math project. This is currently through both individual interaction with the authors to get them to donate and through re-licensing endeavors. So to try to form a clearer question. If code is licensed using the follow style licenses: http://www.honeylocust.com/RngPack/rngpack/LICENSE http://dsd.lbl.gov/~hoschek/colt/license.html With agreement from the authors ,what is the best approach for integrating code under this license into an Apache project? a very good question. now would be a good time for those folks with experience of this issue to take up the batten... I'm slightly stumped, I see no references to a Licensing listserv anywhere in the Apache www site? i suspect that it's a committer-only list. anyone know for sure? - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BSD style code and licensing issues
Mostly, I'm trying to ascertain the best strategies for donations that will be arising in the near future from projects that are now relicensed using a BSD style license (portions of Colt and RngPack). I am working through details with these individuals and organizations to legally and ethically provide vehicles for the code from these projects to evolve and be included into the math project. This is currently through both individual interaction with the authors to get them to donate and through re-licensing endeavors. So to try to form a clearer question. If code is licensed using the follow style licenses: http://www.honeylocust.com/RngPack/rngpack/LICENSE http://dsd.lbl.gov/~hoschek/colt/license.html With agreement from the authors ,what is the best approach for integrating code under this license into an Apache project? I'm slightly stumped, I see no references to a Licensing listserv anywhere in the Apache www site? -Mark robert burrell donkin wrote: hi mark IMHO there are two different issues here. 1. what's the right thing to do legally... i don't recall any problems with including BSD licensed source (providing that the license is followed which probably means adding the appropriate credits) but the right place to ask this question is licensing at apache.org. you'll need to subscribe first (probably using your apache address). 2. what's the right thing to do ethically... ethics are important for other reasons. being generous with credit often helps to stop flamewars before they start. i'd say that the right thing to do ethically is to put a note crediting the original author(s) below the the apache license. it's usually possible to satisfy both 1 and 2 with an appropriate choice of words. - robert On 7 Nov 2003, at 20:38, Mark R. Diggory wrote: Is there any sort of policy on the inclusion of BSD style licensed code into an Apache Project outside of "relicensing". As well, any standard set of policies/procedures on if that code is donated to a project? I understand that there are procedures for donation. But have some questions concerning this: http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt Does supplying this document properly completed constitute a relicensing of donated code to Apache? thanks, -- Mark Diggory Software Developer Harvard MIT Data Center http://osprey.hmdc.harvard.edu - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mark Diggory Software Developer Harvard MIT Data Center http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BSD style code and licensing issues
hi mark IMHO there are two different issues here. 1. what's the right thing to do legally... i don't recall any problems with including BSD licensed source (providing that the license is followed which probably means adding the appropriate credits) but the right place to ask this question is licensing at apache.org. you'll need to subscribe first (probably using your apache address). 2. what's the right thing to do ethically... ethics are important for other reasons. being generous with credit often helps to stop flamewars before they start. i'd say that the right thing to do ethically is to put a note crediting the original author(s) below the the apache license. it's usually possible to satisfy both 1 and 2 with an appropriate choice of words. - robert On 7 Nov 2003, at 20:38, Mark R. Diggory wrote: Is there any sort of policy on the inclusion of BSD style licensed code into an Apache Project outside of "relicensing". As well, any standard set of policies/procedures on if that code is donated to a project? I understand that there are procedures for donation. But have some questions concerning this: http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt Does supplying this document properly completed constitute a relicensing of donated code to Apache? thanks, -- Mark Diggory Software Developer Harvard MIT Data Center http://osprey.hmdc.harvard.edu - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BSD style code and licensing issues
Is there any sort of policy on the inclusion of BSD style licensed code into an Apache Project outside of "relicensing". As well, any standard set of policies/procedures on if that code is donated to a project? I understand that there are procedures for donation. But have some questions concerning this: http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt Does supplying this document properly completed constitute a relicensing of donated code to Apache? thanks, -- Mark Diggory Software Developer Harvard MIT Data Center http://osprey.hmdc.harvard.edu - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]