RE: Promotion of sub projects
> The latest committer Jung Yan does not (yet) appear. His CLA was recorded this morning, along with several others. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Promotion of sub projects
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El miércoles, 10 dici, 2003, a las 09:37 Europe/Madrid, David Sean Taylor escribió: I agree with David's evaluation of Jetspeed situation. Yesterday I was looking at the committer list of (jakarta-) jetspeed, jetspeed-2 and pluto, and I found: Project committers members jakarta-jetspeed 19 5 (jetspeed 1 and 2 have the same set) jakarta-pluto 22 6 ws-wsrp4j 27 20 (amazing ratio) This is much more than I expected. Of course, a big part of this people is inactive, though it shows that the projects have been alive and evolving for a while. Recently Roy T. Fielding posted that on average projects have only 20% of their committer base active at any given moment. This seems to be true here, also. Also, people missing CLA: - -bash-2.05b$ sh ../scripts/check-project-clas.sh jakarta-jetspeed akempf aurelien ggolden jon jvanzyl paulsp prickett rubys shesmer taylor (same for jetspeed-2 and pluto) - -bash-2.05b$ sh ../scripts/check-project-clas.sh ws-wsrp4j jstrachan rubys taylor I wrote some small oneliners/shell scripts to do the task (project-committers.sh, project-members.sh, asf-members.sh, check-project-clas.sh) The latest committer Jung Yan does not (yet) appear. Regards, Santiago (amazed that I'm actually doing administrative work) On Tuesday, December 9, 2003, at 07:13 AM, Danny Angus wrote: Just for fun I thought I'd fill this out for the Jetspeed and Pluto projects (WSRP4J is another possibility). We would like to start a TLP named 'portal.apache.org' including Jetspeed-1, Jetspeed-2 and Pluto, and other portal apps as they are developed. 1/ Community dynamic, a) Is your community self sustaining and largely independant of other parts of Jakarta? yes Not the individuals, the community. Is it, for instance, so heavily influenced by the direction of some other sub-project that membership of both is virtually a pre-requisite for understanding. b) Are many of your commiters also commiters of some other sub-project for this, or similar, reasons? no 2/ Project Management, a) Does your sub-project need or get much direction from the Jakarta PMC (or is it mostly handled by the comitters with lip service paid to the PMC)? no, lip service 3/ Community health, a) Is your community highly dependant on one or two key people, or is there a real mix of talent working as a team? we are a small group. Jetspeed-2 is currently dependent on 3 people but we are getting more people active We have a lot more active Jetspeed-1 people, but development has tapered off b) Is there generally an amicable, if hotly debated, concensus? yes i think so 4/ Infrastructure resources, a) Does your sub-project have aspirations to own its own top-level resources (cvs, mailing lists, wiki, web-site)? yes 5/ Product seperation, a) Is your product tightly bound to other Jakarta sub-projects (excluding commons) or does it only supply a need or consume deliverables in the usual way? Jetspeed-1 is tied to Turbine Pluto isn't tied to anything Jetspeed-2 is dependent on OJB and we are seriously considering Merlin now b) Does your sub-project contribute a lot of code to another, or receive a lot of contributions from another Jakarta sub-project? J2 and Pluto are closely tied, but Pluto is not dependent on J2 6/ Scope, a) Has your sub-project outgrown it's original scope? I think so. New standards have appeared (Java Portlet Standard, WSRP) and the portlet dev model has changed to a standardized portlet application model with a clear delineation between portal, container and application b) Does your sub-project have a need or desire to maintain it's own sub-projects, incubate new ideas, or accept incubated projects from the incubator? yes we do, see project list above 7/ a) Are there any compeling arguments which can be raised to support remaining within Jakarta? Our list isn't very active compared to others, at least this is my perception, I could be wrong Score 1 for each of the following answers: 1a yes 1b no 2a not much 3a real mix 3b generally amicable 4a yes 5a normal supply/consume relationship 5b not much direct contribution to or by other sub-projects 6a yes 6b yes 7a not really Total 1-3 You probably belong here, consider staying. Total 4-6 You might need to address some issues before you go. Total 7-9 Promotion could be your path to further growth and maturity. Total 10-11 You treat this place like a hotel, its time to think about what you really want. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE/2Zv0ZAeG2a2/nhoRAmKoAKDT2fPPWB/g1t04rYST7KbeTeCjfQCeI1Ca wvh9BlCugGGZk29OY3kkWI4= =jgSo -END PGP SIGNATURE-
RE: Promotion of sub projects
> Just a reminder, but there need not be a 1:1 mapping of PMC and web domain, > so there is no need to breakup the Jakarta web site unless people *want* to > do so. Quite so, there's no obligation on a promoted sub-project to abandon its place in the jakarta infrastructure. In fact the idea of Jakarta being a less formal grouping of TLP's with a shared mission and audience has been proposed before and IMO is not a bad idea. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Promotion of sub projects
David Sean Taylor wrote, > Just for fun I thought I'd fill this out for the Jetspeed and Pluto > projects (WSRP4J is another possibility). > We would like to start a TLP named 'portal.apache.org' including > Jetspeed-1, Jetspeed-2 and Pluto, and other portal apps as they are > developed. Good, well I suggest that your answers (ruthlessly snipped) tell you that its worth pursuing. I'd suggest a good first step would be to start a discussion on the relevant dev list(s) to see if there is broadly support or opposition to the idea. It might be a good idea to provide and overview of what the hell promotion means and enumerate the benefits and drawbacks it brings. I'd be happy to prime you from my own experience, or subscribe and join in, as I'm sure will others who've been through (or oppose) this. If you garner a general consensus the next step would be to draw up a proposal for the commiters to vote upon, including the makeup of the initial PMC, project scope and inaugural PMC chair, and possibly (kind of bootstrappingly) the conditions which have to be met for the vote to be sucessful. If your vote suceeds you then make a formally worded proposal to the board, James included a short covering letter outlining our reasoning. The board then vote and either reject it with recommendations (such as to modify the scope) or accept it and you're faced with the infrastructure tasks. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Promotion of sub projects
On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 23:00, Stephen Colebourne wrote: > The question is whether some projects are willing to make the step to TLP. > These seem like possible candidates: > Tomcat, Lucene, Struts, Velocity Turbine. SCNR Henning -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire "Außerdem können in Deutschland alle Englisch. [...] so entfällt die Notwendigkeit [...] Deutsch zu lernen." -- Johan Micoud auf die Frage warum er kein Deutsch spricht. (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,273205,00.html) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Promotion of sub projects
On Tuesday, December 9, 2003, at 07:13 AM, Danny Angus wrote: Just for fun I thought I'd fill this out for the Jetspeed and Pluto projects (WSRP4J is another possibility). We would like to start a TLP named 'portal.apache.org' including Jetspeed-1, Jetspeed-2 and Pluto, and other portal apps as they are developed. 1/ Community dynamic, a) Is your community self sustaining and largely independant of other parts of Jakarta? yes Not the individuals, the community. Is it, for instance, so heavily influenced by the direction of some other sub-project that membership of both is virtually a pre-requisite for understanding. b) Are many of your commiters also commiters of some other sub-project for this, or similar, reasons? no 2/ Project Management, a) Does your sub-project need or get much direction from the Jakarta PMC (or is it mostly handled by the comitters with lip service paid to the PMC)? no, lip service 3/ Community health, a) Is your community highly dependant on one or two key people, or is there a real mix of talent working as a team? we are a small group. Jetspeed-2 is currently dependent on 3 people but we are getting more people active We have a lot more active Jetspeed-1 people, but development has tapered off b) Is there generally an amicable, if hotly debated, concensus? yes i think so 4/ Infrastructure resources, a) Does your sub-project have aspirations to own its own top-level resources (cvs, mailing lists, wiki, web-site)? yes 5/ Product seperation, a) Is your product tightly bound to other Jakarta sub-projects (excluding commons) or does it only supply a need or consume deliverables in the usual way? Jetspeed-1 is tied to Turbine Pluto isn't tied to anything Jetspeed-2 is dependent on OJB and we are seriously considering Merlin now b) Does your sub-project contribute a lot of code to another, or receive a lot of contributions from another Jakarta sub-project? J2 and Pluto are closely tied, but Pluto is not dependent on J2 6/ Scope, a) Has your sub-project outgrown it's original scope? I think so. New standards have appeared (Java Portlet Standard, WSRP) and the portlet dev model has changed to a standardized portlet application model with a clear delineation between portal, container and application b) Does your sub-project have a need or desire to maintain it's own sub-projects, incubate new ideas, or accept incubated projects from the incubator? yes we do, see project list above 7/ a) Are there any compeling arguments which can be raised to support remaining within Jakarta? Our list isn't very active compared to others, at least this is my perception, I could be wrong Score 1 for each of the following answers: 1a yes 1b no 2a not much 3a real mix 3b generally amicable 4a yes 5a normal supply/consume relationship 5b not much direct contribution to or by other sub-projects 6a yes 6b yes 7a not really Total 1-3 You probably belong here, consider staying. Total 4-6 You might need to address some issues before you go. Total 7-9 Promotion could be your path to further growth and maturity. Total 10-11 You treat this place like a hotel, its time to think about what you really want. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Promotion of sub projects
Stephen Colebourne wrote: > The list of TLP sugestions outlined below is a good starting point. > The question is whether some projects are willing to make the step to TLP. Just a reminder, but there need not be a 1:1 mapping of PMC and web domain, so there is no need to breakup the Jakarta web site unless people *want* to do so. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Promotion of sub projects
The list of TLP sugestions outlined below is a good starting point. I'll suggest some applicability: The question is whether some projects are willing to make the step to TLP. These seem like possible candidates: Tomcat, Lucene, Struts, Velocity Some others don't strike me as moving out: BCEL, BSF, ECS, ORO, Regexp, Taglibs In fact, IMHO what is left in Jakarta is Jakarta-Commons plus other utility-like projects that might on a different day have been created in commons. (I still think there are some tricky cases - POI, Log4J, Tapestry ) I am hoping that developers in some of the larger jakarta products push for promotion sooner rather than later. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Danny Angus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In the light of a request to the PMC by a Jakarta sub-project to have its > own "top-level" wiki I thought of this... > > Jakarta is attempting to put our house in order wrt oversight, this is > manifesting itself as incresed centralisation of oversight, and reduced > autonomy for sub-projects. > > An issue we've discussed before is promotion to TLP of existing mature > sub-projects. This started off with an assertion that no-one from Ant would > be in favour, and ended up with Ant, Avalon, James and Maven all taking the > plunge. > > One of the most obvious benefits of TLP to promoted sub-projects is their > own top-level infrastructure. Providing access to this from within Jakarta > seems wrong, it breaks the seperation of concerns, would provide ammunition > to the argument that this PMC doesn't have full oversight and blurs the > line between project and sub-project. If a project wants this it should > consider promotion as the route to achieve it. > > I would like to propose (but this is not a proposal, just provoking > discussion) that we draw up some benchmarks for promotion, which could give > some indication that a sub-project is ready to *consider* promotion, and > probably should do so seriously. > > These could be similar to the guidelines for adoption as a sub-project > (http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html). > some ideas are noted below (a little tongue-in-cheek in the style of a > lifestyle magazine). > > Such checks need not compel a sub-project to apply for promotion, but I > would certainly like sub-projects to consider it as they grow in size, > maturity or scope, and perhaps an official checklist will remind people and > give them the confidence to raise the subject, and perhaps a target to aim > for. > > 1/ Community dynamic, > a) Is your community self sustaining and largely independant of other parts > of Jakarta? > Not the individuals, the community. Is it, for instance, so heavily > influenced by the direction of some other sub-project that membership of > both is virtually a pre-requisite for understanding. > b) Are many of your commiters also commiters of some other sub-project for > this, or similar, reasons? > > 2/ Project Management, > a) Does your sub-project need or get much direction from the Jakarta PMC > (or is it mostly handled by the comitters with lip service paid to the > PMC)? > > 3/ Community health, > a) Is your community highly dependant on one or two key people, or is > there a real mix of talent working as a team? > b) Is there generally an amicable, if hotly debated, concensus? > > 4/ Infrastructure resources, > a) Does your sub-project have aspirations to own its own top-level > resources (cvs, mailing lists, wiki, web-site)? > > 5/ Product seperation, > a) Is your product tightly bound to other Jakarta sub-projects (excluding > commons) or does it only supply a need or consume deliverables in the usual > way? > b) Does your sub-project contribute a lot of code to another, or receive a > lot of contributions from another Jakarta sub-project? > > 6/ Scope, > a) Has your sub-project outgrown it's original scope? > b) Does your sub-project have a need or desire to maintain it's own > sub-projects, incubate new ideas, or accept incubated projects from the > incubator? > > 7/ > a) Are there any compeling arguments which can be raised to support > remaining within Jakarta? > > Score 1 for each of the following answers: > 1a yes > 1b no > 2a not much > 3a real mix > 3b generally amicable > 4a yes > 5a normal supply/consume relationship > 5b not much direct contribution to or by other sub-projects > 6a yes > 6b yes > 7a not really > > Total 1-3 You probably belong here, consider staying. > Total 4-6 You might need to address some issues before you go. > Total 7-9 Promotion could be your path to further growth and maturity. > Total 10-11 You treat this place like a hotel, its time to think about what > you really want. > > > d. > > > > *** > The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediat
Promotion of sub projects
In the light of a request to the PMC by a Jakarta sub-project to have its own "top-level" wiki I thought of this... Jakarta is attempting to put our house in order wrt oversight, this is manifesting itself as incresed centralisation of oversight, and reduced autonomy for sub-projects. An issue we've discussed before is promotion to TLP of existing mature sub-projects. This started off with an assertion that no-one from Ant would be in favour, and ended up with Ant, Avalon, James and Maven all taking the plunge. One of the most obvious benefits of TLP to promoted sub-projects is their own top-level infrastructure. Providing access to this from within Jakarta seems wrong, it breaks the seperation of concerns, would provide ammunition to the argument that this PMC doesn't have full oversight and blurs the line between project and sub-project. If a project wants this it should consider promotion as the route to achieve it. I would like to propose (but this is not a proposal, just provoking discussion) that we draw up some benchmarks for promotion, which could give some indication that a sub-project is ready to *consider* promotion, and probably should do so seriously. These could be similar to the guidelines for adoption as a sub-project (http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html). some ideas are noted below (a little tongue-in-cheek in the style of a lifestyle magazine). Such checks need not compel a sub-project to apply for promotion, but I would certainly like sub-projects to consider it as they grow in size, maturity or scope, and perhaps an official checklist will remind people and give them the confidence to raise the subject, and perhaps a target to aim for. 1/ Community dynamic, a) Is your community self sustaining and largely independant of other parts of Jakarta? Not the individuals, the community. Is it, for instance, so heavily influenced by the direction of some other sub-project that membership of both is virtually a pre-requisite for understanding. b) Are many of your commiters also commiters of some other sub-project for this, or similar, reasons? 2/ Project Management, a) Does your sub-project need or get much direction from the Jakarta PMC (or is it mostly handled by the comitters with lip service paid to the PMC)? 3/ Community health, a) Is your community highly dependant on one or two key people, or is there a real mix of talent working as a team? b) Is there generally an amicable, if hotly debated, concensus? 4/ Infrastructure resources, a) Does your sub-project have aspirations to own its own top-level resources (cvs, mailing lists, wiki, web-site)? 5/ Product seperation, a) Is your product tightly bound to other Jakarta sub-projects (excluding commons) or does it only supply a need or consume deliverables in the usual way? b) Does your sub-project contribute a lot of code to another, or receive a lot of contributions from another Jakarta sub-project? 6/ Scope, a) Has your sub-project outgrown it's original scope? b) Does your sub-project have a need or desire to maintain it's own sub-projects, incubate new ideas, or accept incubated projects from the incubator? 7/ a) Are there any compeling arguments which can be raised to support remaining within Jakarta? Score 1 for each of the following answers: 1a yes 1b no 2a not much 3a real mix 3b generally amicable 4a yes 5a normal supply/consume relationship 5b not much direct contribution to or by other sub-projects 6a yes 6b yes 7a not really Total 1-3 You probably belong here, consider staying. Total 4-6 You might need to address some issues before you go. Total 7-9 Promotion could be your path to further growth and maturity. Total 10-11 You treat this place like a hotel, its time to think about what you really want. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ***
