On Sat, 31 May 2008 02:17:48 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 03:03:42 +0200
Luca Barbato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Which is where the design flaw is -- as-needed incorrectly assumes
that the only type of dependency between shared
On Saturday 31 May 2008 00:16:31 Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Ok, then everything in the tree is covered and we can move to having
--as-needed as default.
Is the next version of everything in the tree covered? Have you made
sure that software isn't merely working by fluke?
We interupt this
В Птн, 30/05/2008 в 20:28 -0700, Brian Harring пишет:
Either way, basically it's coming down to if gentoo wants to follow
the definition of 'academic' right, or 'pragmatic' right. Exempting
ciaran, vote seems to be pragmatic.
Well, although I've asked about problems with having --as-needed
On Saturday 31 May 2008 11:14:33 Luca Barbato wrote:
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Fact: the underlying issue is a libtool bug.
Wrong, it isn't just that, --as-needed and libtool are unrelated.
The issue that as-needed tries to solve is libraries being linked to binaries
or other libraries that
Peter Volkov wrote:
В Птн, 30/05/2008 в 20:28 -0700, Brian Harring пишет:
Either way, basically it's coming down to if gentoo wants to follow
the definition of 'academic' right, or 'pragmatic' right. Exempting
ciaran, vote seems to be pragmatic.
Well, although I've asked about problems with
A. Convince the portage developers to put it in
make.conf/make.defaults.
By the way, I'm strongly opposed to this: it should be, at best, in the
profiles.
For instance, as long as bug #192403 isn't fixed, as-needed will cause
*a lot* of build failures on fbsd since gcc specs are broken and
On Sat, 31 May 2008 04:26:39 -0700
Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just to jump in quickly; this thread is about adding --as-needed to
the default CFLAGS. To get this accomplished you need to:
A. Convince the portage developers to put it in
make.conf/make.defaults.
Wrong.
We don't
On 22:53 Fri 30 May , Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:47:44 +0300
Mart Raudsepp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The story that matters here is, that a C++ corner case that does not
work on 0.01% of packages with --as-needed and breaks on non-ELF
platforms, should not cause good
On Fri, 30 May 2008 15:07:43 -0700
Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 22:53 Fri 30 May , Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:47:44 +0300
Mart Raudsepp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The story that matters here is, that a C++ corner case that does
not work on 0.01% of
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:47:44 +0300
Mart Raudsepp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Paludis is fine with as-needed. But hey, don't let reality get in
the way of your pathetic attempts at turning everything into Paludis
bashing.
It happens to be the only package that I know of that
On Sat, 31 May 2008 01:08:21 +0200
Luca Barbato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Except that Paludis is fine with --as-needed.
Ok, then everything in the tree is covered and we can move to having
--as-needed as default.
Is the next version of everything in the tree covered? Have you made
sure that
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 15:07:43 -0700
Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 22:53 Fri 30 May , Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:47:44 +0300
Mart Raudsepp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The story that matters here is, that a C++ corner case that does
not
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
I'd bet you could get a pretty long way by shoving -ffast-math into
CFLAGS by default before anyone would notice...
Non sequitur. We are talking about --as-needed, not -ffast-math.
--
Luca Barbato
Gentoo Council Member
Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
On Sat, 31 May 2008 01:13:58 +0200
Luca Barbato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know exactly which standard -ffast-math violates (IEEE/ISO floating
point spec) and how (the man page is quite complete about this),
--as-needed doesn't have any warning about this, there isn't any
standard that it
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 12:26:44AM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 01:13:58 +0200
Luca Barbato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know exactly which standard -ffast-math violates (IEEE/ISO floating
point spec) and how (the man page is quite complete about this),
--as-needed
On Fri, 30 May 2008 16:43:38 -0700
Brian Harring [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
ISO/IEC 14882:1998 section 3.7.1 paragraph 2.
Might want to confirm it's in 14882:2003, since the '98 was
withdrawn... ~harring
It's in all the way up to the current 0x draft. It even has the same
section and
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 01:13:58 +0200
Luca Barbato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know exactly which standard -ffast-math violates (IEEE/ISO floating
point spec) and how (the man page is quite complete about this),
--as-needed doesn't have any warning about this, there isn't
On Sat, 31 May 2008 01:54:45 +0200
Luca Barbato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
ISO/IEC 14882:1998 section 3.7.1 paragraph 2.
If an object of static storage duration has initialization or a
destructor with side effects, it shall not be eliminated even if
it appears to be unused, except that a
On Sat, 31 May 2008 02:17:15 +0200
Luca Barbato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Linking with as-needed is the stage in which the elimination occurs,
and as-needed is the cause of the elimination. So yes, it is
related.
The linker just does bookkeeping, if there aren't
On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:47:44 +0300
Mart Raudsepp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Portage developers - is there anything we should do to get --as-needed
to make.conf.example and other places, beyond fixing the known bugs on
the appropriate bug tracker?
make.conf.example is no big deal, that's just
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Which is where the design flaw is -- as-needed incorrectly assumes that
the only type of dependency between shared objects is a name
dependency. This isn't true with C++ static initialisers.
I don't see why should be different than abusing .init in any other
language
On Sat, 31 May 2008 03:03:42 +0200
Luca Barbato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Which is where the design flaw is -- as-needed incorrectly assumes
that the only type of dependency between shared objects is a name
dependency. This isn't true with C++ static initialisers.
I
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 15:07:43 -0700
Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I see that a number of packages in the tree explicitly filter
-ffast-math.
That's mostly from the bad old days when users were encouraged to use
silly CFLAGS...
1. _When_ was this?
2. _Who_
While we can continually loop around w/ the --as-needed is evil since
c++ does this one odd thing occasionally argument, why not hear from
the folks using it, specifically finding out what breaks in their
usage?
Ciaran: yes, just because the tree works now w/ --as-needed doesn't
mean that
On Fri, 30 May 2008 18:43:56 -0700
Brian Harring [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So... folks have pointed out a benefit to using --as-needed.
But they haven't. They've pointed out a flaw in libtool that is sort of
worked around sometimes at the expense of breaking things by using
as-needed. The correct
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 02:50:20AM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 18:43:56 -0700
Brian Harring [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So... folks have pointed out a benefit to using --as-needed.
But they haven't. They've pointed out a flaw in libtool that is sort of
worked around
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 7:20 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 18:43:56 -0700
Brian Harring [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So... folks have pointed out a benefit to using --as-needed.
But they haven't. They've pointed out a flaw in libtool that is sort of
worked
On Fri, 30 May 2008 19:01:24 -0700
Brian Harring [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The correct solution is to fix libtool., but that's evidently
beyond the abilities of people who're only interested in increasing
their epenis size by throwing more silly options in config files.
Then go do it. You
On Sat, 31 May 2008 07:38:12 +0530
Nirbheek Chauhan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1) You say the benefits haven't been pointed out, while several posts
have already done so. You seem to be the only one pretending to be
unaware of them.
No no no. The benefits described would be obtained by fixing
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 7:44 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 07:38:12 +0530
Nirbheek Chauhan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1) You say the benefits haven't been pointed out, while several posts
have already done so. You seem to be the only one pretending to be
On Sat, 31 May 2008 07:53:05 +0530
Nirbheek Chauhan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No no no. The benefits described would be obtained by fixing
libtool. What you get from as-needed is a half-arsed
sometimes-working subset of those benefits. as-needed is not the
fix for the libtool problems.
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 07:38:12 +0530
Nirbheek Chauhan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1) You say the benefits haven't been pointed out, while several posts
have already done so. You seem to be the only one pretending to be
unaware of them.
No no no. The benefits described would
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Once again, you do not support your argument with anything but your
own word. Don't make me choke on the salt please :)
Uhm. You're suggesting that the underlying issue is not a libtool
problem? Or you're suggesting
On Sat, 31 May 2008 08:28:27 +0530
Nirbheek Chauhan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fact: the underlying issue is a libtool bug.
Fact: It can't be fixed easily and/or in a reasonable time-frame. Else
someone would've done it -- heck you could've fixed it.
Untrue. The amount of effort that's been
On Fri, 30 May 2008 21:50:49 -0500
Ravi Pinjala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Could you explain, for the benefit of us spectators, what these
libtool problems are, and what cleaner solution you have in mind?
It'd make this whole discussion a lot more comprehensible.
libtool links against
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 08:28:27 +0530
Nirbheek Chauhan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fact: It can't be fixed easily and/or in a reasonable time-frame. Else
someone would've done it -- heck you could've fixed it.
Untrue. The
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 08:45:09AM +0530, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 08:28:27 +0530
Nirbheek Chauhan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fact: It works. Unlike your vapour-proposal to fix libtool.
But it
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