[gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
I have seen no real opposition for the creation of the -project mailing list and even this ML changes thread itself involved the creation of the -project mailing (the thread itself is a prime example on why we need -project in the first place) so how about we just get that mailing list going right no and let the rest of it fall into place later. My guess is that if we would have had -project for ages, the need for moderating -dev would have never come about. I bet there are devs who have talked about creating this kind of a list months, even years ago. This time it's not about show me the code but show me the mailing list! Regards, Petteri -- Gentoo/Recruiters project lead Gentoo/Java project lead signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
Petteri Räty wrote: I have seen no real opposition for the creation of the -project mailing list and even this ML changes thread itself involved the creation of the -project mailing (the thread itself is a prime example on why we need -project in the first place) so how about we just get that mailing list going right no and let the rest of it fall into place later. My guess is that if we would have had -project for ages, the need for moderating -dev would have never come about. I bet there are devs who have talked about creating this kind of a list months, even years ago. This time it's not about show me the code but show me the mailing list! I'm not sure on the history of a non-technical ML itself, but I cooked up the idea of gentoo-politics originally, thinking the similarly-themed debian ML was debian-politics. After a debian developer pointed out that it was actually A) debian-project, and B) He intentionally stays off that list (obviously for good reason), I figured the name and non-requirement for developers was most appropriate for our needs as well. Hence, Bug #181368 was born. And apparently, so was ML Changes. Guess the doctor neglected to mention that I was having twins, and that one of them was gonna grow up to be overweight and ugly, yet incredibly hot. Healthcare really has gone down the drain here in the UDG, hasn't it? (United Developers of Gentoo). Anyone care to recruit Moore as a developer? Anyone??? --Kumba -- Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere. --Elrond -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:04:55AM +0300, Petteri R??ty wrote: I have seen no real opposition for the creation of the -project mailing list and even this ML changes thread itself involved the creation of the -project mailing (the thread itself is a prime example on why we need -project in the first place) so how about we just get that mailing list going right no and let the rest of it fall into place later. My guess is that if we would have had -project for ages, the need for moderating -dev would have never come about. I bet there are devs who have talked about creating this kind of a list months, even years ago. This time it's not about show me the code but show me the mailing list! Speaking strictly in an infra role here, and not a council role at all. If there is no opposition (because I suspect I might have missed it in the length of the previous thread) to the _creation_ of -project by Jul 18th 00h00 UTC, I'll create it. -- Robin Hugh Johnson Gentoo Linux Developer Council Member E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85 pgpjrzsHDvRpl.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:04:55AM +0300, Petteri Räty wrote: I have seen no real opposition for the creation of the -project mailing list (just to avoid misunderstandings, we're not only talking about creating -project, but also the stuff that people with non @gentoo.org address get moderated on -dev as discussed in the last 100 mails or so, right?) I've pretty much kept my opinion out of it because even if the council screws up, it's up to the council to decide things. Since no opposition suddenly became the basis to pull it through: I find the idea terrible. cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org Gentoo Forums - http://forums.gentoo.org forum-mods (at) gentoo.org #gentoo-forums (freenode) pgpc8xecI7zFK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
Wernfried Haas kirjoitti: On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:04:55AM +0300, Petteri Räty wrote: I have seen no real opposition for the creation of the -project mailing list (just to avoid misunderstandings, we're not only talking about creating -project, but also the stuff that people with non @gentoo.org address get moderated on -dev as discussed in the last 100 mails or so, right?) No, just the mailing list. Dunno but I tried to make that clear in my mail. Regards, Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 09:49:32AM +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:04:55AM +0300, Petteri R?ty wrote: I have seen no real opposition for the creation of the -project mailing list (just to avoid misunderstandings, we're not only talking about creating -project, but also the stuff that people with non @gentoo.org address get moderated on -dev as discussed in the last 100 mails or so, right?) betelgeuse was talking only about the creation of -project. None of the other stuff. -- Robin Hugh Johnson Gentoo Linux Developer Council Member E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85 pgperzKwIpbm1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:54:35AM +0300, Petteri Räty wrote: No, just the mailing list. Dunno but I tried to make that clear in my mail. Oops, sorry. No opposition to _that_. ;-) cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org Gentoo Forums - http://forums.gentoo.org forum-mods (at) gentoo.org #gentoo-forums (freenode) pgpZgw4o8vxN7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:04:55 +0300 Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have seen no real opposition for the creation of the -project mailing list and even this ML changes thread itself involved the creation of the -project mailing (the thread itself is a prime example on why we need -project in the first place) so how about we just get that mailing list going right no and let the rest of it fall into place later. How about defining the purpose of all these list with which we'll soon end up before going ahead and requesting changes? -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 11:00 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: How about defining the purpose of all these list with which we'll soon end up before going ahead and requesting changes? -dev is just for technical development. -project is for non technical development of Gentoo. What is technical development? Well, if your email doesn't have any code or questions about code then it probably doesn't belong on -dev is is more suited to another list. If you feel the urge to email about other things then submit more list ideas. Thanks Roy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
Roy Marples wrote: On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 11:00 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: How about defining the purpose of all these list with which we'll soon end up before going ahead and requesting changes? -dev is just for technical development. -project is for non technical development of Gentoo. What is technical development? Well, if your email doesn't have any code or questions about code then it probably doesn't belong on -dev is is more suited to another list. If you feel the urge to email about other things then submit more list ideas. So that would mean that welcoming new developers would be on the -project list? Would package removals be on it because it seems to be somewhere in the middle? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 14:13 +0100, George Prowse wrote: So that would mean that welcoming new developers would be on the -project list? Or on say gentoo-announce, but yes. Would package removals be on it because it seems to be somewhere in the middle? That's an announcement, so I would say it shouldn't be there. The idea is that -dev is just about development. Having more specific mailing lists should stop people treating -dev like their personal soap box which seems to be the big issue atm. Thanks Roy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
George Prowse wrote: So that would mean that welcoming new developers would be on the -project list? My thinking, I think they would fit better over there, since it is somewhat non-technical. However, machine-generated notices of dev arrival or dev departure could be directed to other lists. There's been talk of a -dev-announce list as well; perhaps such automated messages of dev changes could be sent there in a fashion (either individually as one joins or one leaves, or in a weekly digest form summarizing the changes). Would package removals be on it because it seems to be somewhere in the middle? I think package additions/removals should stay there, since they are development related, such as the removal due to bitrot or an unfixiable security flaw, etc. Such messages might also be candidates for the above mentioned -dev-announce ML as well. --Kumba -- Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere. --Elrond -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
Kumba wrote: George Prowse wrote: So that would mean that welcoming new developers would be on the -project list? My thinking, I think they would fit better over there, since it is somewhat non-technical. However, machine-generated notices of dev arrival or dev departure could be directed to other lists. There's been talk of a -dev-announce list as well; perhaps such automated messages of dev changes could be sent there in a fashion (either individually as one joins or one leaves, or in a weekly digest form summarizing the changes). Seems to me that new dev announcements should be on [perhaps the announcement variant] of -dev, since they are related to the development team. It'd be nice to hear those announcements on the list devs are required to subscribe to, so all devs hear about new arrivals. As an IMHO, -dev (or variants) should be for topics of importance to *developers development* (but not attacks/flame wars, politics, etc., obviously), and not strictly limited to *technical/coding* issues, which seems a bit narrow. Would package removals be on it because it seems to be somewhere in the middle? I think package additions/removals should stay there, since they are development related, such as the removal due to bitrot or an unfixiable security flaw, etc. Such messages might also be candidates for the above mentioned -dev-announce ML as well. +1 -Joe -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 11:30 -0600, Joe Peterson wrote: Seems to me that new dev announcements should be on [perhaps the announcement variant] of -dev, since they are related to the development team. It'd be nice to hear those announcements on the list devs are required to subscribe to, so all devs hear about new arrivals. As an IMHO, -dev (or variants) should be for topics of importance to *developers development* (but not attacks/flame wars, politics, etc., obviously), and not strictly limited to *technical/coding* issues, which seems a bit narrow. Making it narrow should enforce people to stay on topic. Topics of important to the Development Of Gentoo are more valid on council, or trustees mailing lists. Recent example of this is the discussion on licensing which fits in with your description of developers and development. We assign copyright to the Gentoo Foundation so the correct place for discussion is the trustees list. Thanks Roy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 12:28:09AM -0700, Robin H. Johnson wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:04:55AM +0300, Petteri R??ty wrote: I have seen no real opposition for the creation of the -project mailing list and even this ML changes thread itself involved the creation of the -project mailing (the thread itself is a prime example on why we need -project in the first place) so how about we just get that mailing list going right no and let the rest of it fall into place later. My guess is that if we would have had -project for ages, the need for moderating -dev would have never come about. I bet there are devs who have talked about creating this kind of a list months, even years ago. This time it's not about show me the code but show me the mailing list! Speaking strictly in an infra role here, and not a council role at all. If there is no opposition (because I suspect I might have missed it in the length of the previous thread) to the _creation_ of -project by Jul 18th 00h00 UTC, I'll create it. The list is created now. Along with other pending list requests that infra had. gentoo-project gentoo-lisp gentoo-vdr gentoo-dev-announce -- Robin Hugh Johnson Gentoo Linux Developer Council Member E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85 pgpdhVAsm7unC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
070717 Robin H. Johnson wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:04:55AM +0300, Petteri R??ty wrote: I have seen no real opposition for the creation of the -project list so how about we just get that mailing list going right now and let the rest of it fall into place later. My guess is that if we would have had -project for ages, the need for moderating -dev would have never come about. The list is created now, along with other pending list requests: gentoo-project gentoo-lisp gentoo-vdr gentoo-dev-announce To this user since 2003, who plans to install Gentoo in the new machine which I am presently designing, this sounds like a very welcome development. I shall continue to subscribe to -dev , but not to -project. Should I also subscribe to -dev-announce or will its msgs be duplicated on -dev ? Hopefully, all the devs can now get back to making Gentoo even better, for which volunteer work I continue always to be grateful. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started
Philip Webb wrote: To this user since 2003, who plans to install Gentoo in the new machine which I am presently designing, this sounds like a very welcome development. I shall continue to subscribe to -dev , but not to -project. Should I also subscribe to -dev-announce or will its msgs be duplicated on -dev ? Think of it as a filter; important things that are announcement-worthy will get sent to -dev-announce, for people who want to keep on top of things w/o the background noise. Hopefully, all the devs can now get back to making Gentoo even better, for which volunteer work I continue always to be grateful. I, for one, welcome our new volunteering developer Overlords! /slashdot --Kumba -- Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere. --Elrond -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
