Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Tim Harder]

On 2015-07-18 15:01, Matthew Marchese wrote:
> I'd like to hear it all so please speak your mind. Looking forward to
> hearing from you.

On another semi-related note, I've always thought it would be useful to
extend repos.conf support to handle binary repos so one could use layman
or equivalent tools to easily add binary repos, prioritize them however
you like, and leverage them to get new installs quickly rolling or just
for regular usage. That way PORTAGE_BINHOST and related settings could
be tossed down the line and binary derivatives should be able to easily
leverage such support.

Of course while talking about unimplemented features this would could be
even more interesting alongside a better, spec-ed out binpkg format,
perhaps something that supports splitting metadata and actual binary pkg
data so the main metadata cache could be sanely synced around via git or
similar.

These have both been dream goals as I've poked at pkgcore over the past
year or so (and yes I'm aware paludis implements something similar to
these things already).

Tim


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Andrew Savchenko]

Hi,

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:52:07 +0400 Jason Zaman wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 03:05:04AM +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > Maybe a bit off-topic, but occasionally I need a tool to "fast
> > install Gentoo and fine-tune it later". This happens quite often on
> > a new job box, oh during visits where I'm given a workstation and
> > 3-4 hours to set it up before doing real work and so on.
> > 
> > The idea is to have binary-based Gentoo ready to work on general
> > common hardware with such software out of the box as fully-fledged
> > modern gui browsers (chromium, firefox), libreoffice, xterm,
> > screen, vim, compilers, ldap support and other dev tools. Set of
> > packages may vary, but the idea is that they should work out of the
> > box due to tight constrains on initial system configuration (boss
> > should see that I'm doing my job at the end of the day).
> > 
> > But afterwards I'd like to tune this setup in a usual Gentoo way:
> > configure kernel, USE flags, {C,CXX,F,FC,LD}FLAGS, select proper
> > alternatives and so on more or less accordant to the devmanual.
> > 
> > Self prepared catalyst build for general ~amd64 looks appropriate
> > to the task, but they require too much maintenance effort: each
> > update is a pain and quite time consuming and I need such images
> > only once or twice per year, but still I need them!
> > 
> > In the ideal world it would be nice to have such stage4 ebuilds
> > available to speed-up initial installation and configuration
> > process.
> 
> Take a look at the new project Blueness is working on:
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:RelEng_GRS
> 
> It basically builds binpkgs for a few standard configurations so it
> sounds exactly like what you want.

Thanks. Idea is really nice and when it'll be ready for real-life
usage, I'll try it too. But right now it is a work-in-progress and
I can't find any usable images.

For now for practical issues I'll look into Sabayon like
recommended by Duncan in another reply.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Jason Zaman]

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 03:05:04AM +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:51:00 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> > Dnia 2015-07-18, o godz. 12:01:48
> > Matthew Marchese  napisał(a):
> > 
> > > I have recently pressed the reboot button on the ol' Installer project. 
> > > I've been able to talk to quite a few developers one-on-one via IRC 
> > > concerning my plans. Most seem to be in support of Gentoo having a 
> > > "official" installer (the biggest concern is appears to be how things 
> > > will be implemented and the amount of features involved). This e-mail is 
> > > to fulfill GLEP 39's request for comments (RFC), concerns, requests, etc. 
> > > Since I'm a little new to the project I'm coming with a bit of ignorance; 
> > > I know the previous Installer project fostered mixed feelings.
> > > 
> > > If you'd like to review before replying you can see the Wiki page and 
> > > find the source on GitHub: https://github.com/gentoo/stager
> > > 
> > > To summarize I'm writing it in pure Python 3. It first will be able to 
> > > create full backups (stage 4s) and recoveries. After that is finished I 
> > > plan to move on to installations. There will potentially be a web 
> > > interface UI for it. Others are free to create other front-ends; to me a 
> > > web UI makes the most sense and would probably require the least deps.
> > > 
> > > I'd like to hear it all so please speak your mind. Looking forward to 
> > > hearing from you.
> > 
> > On a semi-related note, I was thinking about doing a semi-related
> > project :).
> > 
> > I personally don't think Gentoo needs installer as-is. However, I think
> > we'd really benefit from having some kind of helper scripts / checklist
> > of tasks to be done prior to/after install.
> > 
> > For example, you'd run 'check-my-install' script and it'd tell you what
> > you likely forgot to set up :).
>  
> Maybe a bit off-topic, but occasionally I need a tool to "fast
> install Gentoo and fine-tune it later". This happens quite often on
> a new job box, oh during visits where I'm given a workstation and
> 3-4 hours to set it up before doing real work and so on.
> 
> The idea is to have binary-based Gentoo ready to work on general
> common hardware with such software out of the box as fully-fledged
> modern gui browsers (chromium, firefox), libreoffice, xterm,
> screen, vim, compilers, ldap support and other dev tools. Set of
> packages may vary, but the idea is that they should work out of the
> box due to tight constrains on initial system configuration (boss
> should see that I'm doing my job at the end of the day).
> 
> But afterwards I'd like to tune this setup in a usual Gentoo way:
> configure kernel, USE flags, {C,CXX,F,FC,LD}FLAGS, select proper
> alternatives and so on more or less accordant to the devmanual.
> 
> Self prepared catalyst build for general ~amd64 looks appropriate
> to the task, but they require too much maintenance effort: each
> update is a pain and quite time consuming and I need such images
> only once or twice per year, but still I need them!
> 
> In the ideal world it would be nice to have such stage4 ebuilds
> available to speed-up initial installation and configuration
> process.
> 
> Best regards,
> Andrew Savchenko

Take a look at the new project Blueness is working on:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:RelEng_GRS

It basically builds binpkgs for a few standard configurations so it
sounds exactly like what you want.

-- Jason

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Andrew Savchenko]

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:51:00 +0200 Michał Górny wrote:
> Dnia 2015-07-18, o godz. 12:01:48
> Matthew Marchese  napisał(a):
> 
> > I have recently pressed the reboot button on the ol' Installer project. 
> > I've been able to talk to quite a few developers one-on-one via IRC 
> > concerning my plans. Most seem to be in support of Gentoo having a 
> > "official" installer (the biggest concern is appears to be how things will 
> > be implemented and the amount of features involved). This e-mail is to 
> > fulfill GLEP 39's request for comments (RFC), concerns, requests, etc. 
> > Since I'm a little new to the project I'm coming with a bit of ignorance; I 
> > know the previous Installer project fostered mixed feelings.
> > 
> > If you'd like to review before replying you can see the Wiki page and find 
> > the source on GitHub: https://github.com/gentoo/stager
> > 
> > To summarize I'm writing it in pure Python 3. It first will be able to 
> > create full backups (stage 4s) and recoveries. After that is finished I 
> > plan to move on to installations. There will potentially be a web interface 
> > UI for it. Others are free to create other front-ends; to me a web UI makes 
> > the most sense and would probably require the least deps.
> > 
> > I'd like to hear it all so please speak your mind. Looking forward to 
> > hearing from you.
> 
> On a semi-related note, I was thinking about doing a semi-related
> project :).
> 
> I personally don't think Gentoo needs installer as-is. However, I think
> we'd really benefit from having some kind of helper scripts / checklist
> of tasks to be done prior to/after install.
> 
> For example, you'd run 'check-my-install' script and it'd tell you what
> you likely forgot to set up :).
 
Maybe a bit off-topic, but occasionally I need a tool to "fast
install Gentoo and fine-tune it later". This happens quite often on
a new job box, oh during visits where I'm given a workstation and
3-4 hours to set it up before doing real work and so on.

The idea is to have binary-based Gentoo ready to work on general
common hardware with such software out of the box as fully-fledged
modern gui browsers (chromium, firefox), libreoffice, xterm,
screen, vim, compilers, ldap support and other dev tools. Set of
packages may vary, but the idea is that they should work out of the
box due to tight constrains on initial system configuration (boss
should see that I'm doing my job at the end of the day).

But afterwards I'd like to tune this setup in a usual Gentoo way:
configure kernel, USE flags, {C,CXX,F,FC,LD}FLAGS, select proper
alternatives and so on more or less accordant to the devmanual.

Self prepared catalyst build for general ~amd64 looks appropriate
to the task, but they require too much maintenance effort: each
update is a pain and quite time consuming and I need such images
only once or twice per year, but still I need them!

In the ideal world it would be nice to have such stage4 ebuilds
available to speed-up initial installation and configuration
process.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Sebastian Pipping]

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On 20.07.2015 10:51, Michał Górny wrote:
> [..] I think we'd really benefit from having some kind of helper
> scripts / checklist of tasks to be done prior to/after install.
> 
> For example, you'd run 'check-my-install' script and it'd tell you
> what you likely forgot to set up :).

+1



Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 4:51 AM, Michał Górny  wrote:
>
> I personally don't think Gentoo needs installer as-is. However, I think
> we'd really benefit from having some kind of helper scripts / checklist
> of tasks to be done prior to/after install.

I think something that would be really useful is better integration
with configuration management tools (ansible, puppet, chef, etc).
There are a few tools floating around but for the most part you're on
your own with any of these.  I'd really like to get to the point where
I can be certain of being able to completely reproduce all my Gentoo
boxes from configuration management tools - to the extent that other
than cpu cycles it is as easy to just create a new vm/container/etc as
it is to run emerge -u world on an existing one.

>
> For example, you'd run 'check-my-install' script and it'd tell you what
> you likely forgot to set up :).
>

++ - as long as it can be adapted to various uses.  I don't need a
bootloader and  kernel on my container.  As many times as I've
installed Gentoo, I often manage to forget a step.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Michał Górny]

Dnia 2015-07-18, o godz. 12:01:48
Matthew Marchese  napisał(a):

> I have recently pressed the reboot button on the ol' Installer project. I've 
> been able to talk to quite a few developers one-on-one via IRC concerning my 
> plans. Most seem to be in support of Gentoo having a "official" installer 
> (the biggest concern is appears to be how things will be implemented and the 
> amount of features involved). This e-mail is to fulfill GLEP 39's request for 
> comments (RFC), concerns, requests, etc. Since I'm a little new to the 
> project I'm coming with a bit of ignorance; I know the previous Installer 
> project fostered mixed feelings.
> 
> If you'd like to review before replying you can see the Wiki page and find 
> the source on GitHub: https://github.com/gentoo/stager
> 
> To summarize I'm writing it in pure Python 3. It first will be able to create 
> full backups (stage 4s) and recoveries. After that is finished I plan to move 
> on to installations. There will potentially be a web interface UI for it. 
> Others are free to create other front-ends; to me a web UI makes the most 
> sense and would probably require the least deps.
> 
> I'd like to hear it all so please speak your mind. Looking forward to hearing 
> from you.

On a semi-related note, I was thinking about doing a semi-related
project :).

I personally don't think Gentoo needs installer as-is. However, I think
we'd really benefit from having some kind of helper scripts / checklist
of tasks to be done prior to/after install.

For example, you'd run 'check-my-install' script and it'd tell you what
you likely forgot to set up :).

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny



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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Luca Barbato]

On 18/07/15 21:01, Matthew Marchese wrote:
> I'd like to hear it all so please speak your mind. Looking forward to
> hearing from you.

The plan is good, having multiple backends is a boon since then you can
have large install images and tiny install images.

An installer is basically covering partitioning, networking, audio/video
configuration.

If you can start with the simplest use-case and increase complexity
gradually you will succeed.

It is an exercise of patience and I praise you for giving it a try.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[wireless]

On 07/18/2015 11:30 PM, J.Rutkowski wrote:



On Sat, Jul 18, 2015, at 07:06 PM, hasufell wrote:


The handbook consists of different sections. Installation is only one of
them. An installer would just "replace" that part, not the others.


Agreed. I think that any proposed or actual installer shouldn't replace
any part of the handbook (and most would probably say the same). My
opinion is that an installer should follow the steps (in order) already
outlined in the handbook and up front, leave the rest to automation.
Nothing then changes in the installation and configuration process. The
only difference is making all choices up front and let the installer do
the rest by itself.
For example, once I prepare my disks I tell the installer "I want x, y,
or z stage3; I want openrc or systemd; I want x,y, or z profile; I want
the following xxx in my kernel; etc." then set it and forget about it
til morning.



I agree with what has been stated  so far. I would just like to add that
eventual support for  embedded platforms like PPC, arm (particular 
arm8v) as well as new files systems like btrfs would been keenly 
appreciated, even if they are not yet specifically mentioned in the 
handbook. I.E. I see no reason to limit the new installer to what is 
strictly included in the handbook. Maybe those more aggressive (wider 
support) hardware issues are better off being tested in an experimental 
version(s) of the installer first. The handbook moves at a glacial pace
and that's OK, but experimental versions of the installer could be 
targeted at the rich variety of gentoo and gentoo-derived installs; 
whilst a stable version mirrors the handbook?



Also, I'd like the new installer to use usb media and persistence as the 
primary media for installation. Many new devices do not readily connect 
to cd/dvd type devices; maybe this is another stable vs experimental 
issue for the installer, rather than trying to create one system for 
disparagingly differ installation semantics. In that venue maybe 
resurrecting 'netconsole' code as a way to stream  the output remotely 
is another approach for installing on smaller devices?


hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Matthew Marchese]

NP,

You bring about some good points. stager still start with command-line 
interface that can either pass values via command-line options + arguments or 
via 'profiles' which are .ini formatted text files with values predefined. The 
name 'profile' is subject to change because I don't want to confuse new users 
with system profiles, which would also be able to get set...

The web interface, if it ever happens, will come some time after the cli.

The goal of the web interface would allow for "unattended graphical installs." 
It would perform almost like the old GLI did: go through a step by step process 
of setting a configuration (or simply point it to a predefined .ini file), 
click "install" and walk away. As long as the user knows what hardware is on 
his/her system, they should be able to configure things correctly. Just start 
up the server before you walk away and can set all the parameters for the 
install in a web page.

The priorities of the project would be this order:

1) Seasoned users
* Saving time creating backups, recovering, or installing new systems
* Providing an install "framework". It seems many Gentoo users have their own 
set of scripts for backups, installation, etc. stager could provide a base for 
those who have not been taking simple system backups. 
2) New users
* New users would still need to read the Handbook in order to learn how Gentoo 
works and to properly configure the installer.
* In some ways I would like the installer to be a teaching tool that will help 
people get their feet wet with our great OS.

maffblaster

On 07/18/2015 04:06 PM, hasufell wrote:
> On 07/18/2015 09:36 PM, NP-Hardass wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 12:01:48 -0700
>> Matthew Marchese  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> I have recently pressed the reboot button on the ol' Installer
>>> project. I've been able to talk to quite a few developers one-on-one
>>> via IRC concerning my plans. Most seem to be in support of Gentoo
>>> having a "official" installer (the biggest concern is appears to be
>>> how things will be implemented and the amount of features involved).
>>> This e-mail is to fulfill GLEP 39's request for comments (RFC),
>>> concerns, requests, etc. Since I'm a little new to the project I'm
>>> coming with a bit of ignorance; I know the previous Installer project
>>> fostered mixed feelings.
>>> If you'd like to review before replying you can see the Wiki page and
>>> find the source on GitHub: https://github.com/gentoo/stager
>>> To summarize I'm writing it in pure Python 3. It first will be able
>>> to create full backups (stage 4s) and recoveries. After that is
>>> finished I plan to move on to installations. There will potentially
>>> be a web interface UI for it. Others are free to create other
>>> front-ends; to me a web UI makes the most sense and would probably
>>> require the least deps.
>>> I'd like to hear it all so please speak your mind. Looking forward to
>>> hearing from you.
>>> maffblaster
>>
>>
>>
>> Who is your target audience?  New users?  Experienced users?  Not so
>> much a comment about your installer, but installers in general, I feel
>> the handbook is critically important to helping new users to understand
>> Gentoo.
> The handbook consists of different sections. Installation is only one of
> them. An installer would just "replace" that part, not the others.
>
>> "Greatly aiding the "fresh install process". stager will not
>> remove the need for reading through the Handbooks, but rather work
>> along side the handbook in order to help users install Gentoo."
>>
>> Can you elaborate on this?  I have trouble envisioning an automated 
>> installer process that requires working along side the handbook.
>>
> See above.
>

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[J.Rutkowski]

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015, at 07:06 PM, hasufell wrote:

> The handbook consists of different sections. Installation is only one of
> them. An installer would just "replace" that part, not the others.

Agreed. I think that any proposed or actual installer shouldn't replace
any part of the handbook (and most would probably say the same). My
opinion is that an installer should follow the steps (in order) already
outlined in the handbook and up front, leave the rest to automation.
Nothing then changes in the installation and configuration process. The
only difference is making all choices up front and let the installer do
the rest by itself. 
For example, once I prepare my disks I tell the installer "I want x, y,
or z stage3; I want openrc or systemd; I want x,y, or z profile; I want
the following xxx in my kernel; etc." then set it and forget about it
til morning.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Patrick Lauer]

On Sunday 19 July 2015 02:05:21 Patrice Clement wrote:
> Saturday 18 Jul 2015 15:36:01, NP-Hardass wrote :
> I fancy your idea a lot. We ought to do it for complete newbies who are new
> to Gentoo but would like to give the distribution a shot nonetheless. I
> fondly remember my first attempt who took me ages to complete.. Good times.
> :)
> Following up on NP-Hardass' email in which he's raising good points:
> > Who is your target audience?  New users?  Experienced users?  Not so
> > much a comment about your installer, but installers in general, I feel
> > the handbook is critically important to helping new users to understand
> > Gentoo. Whether the handbook would remain a resource that users would
> > look at if they had an installer remains to be seen.
> 
> IMHO, users should be guided and walked through the installation process.
> They should understand what's going on so the Handbook must be equally
> important as when a normal chap installs Gentoo without using the
> installer.

Then the Handbook should be actually correct and useful first:

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=550646

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[hasufell]

On 07/18/2015 09:36 PM, NP-Hardass wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 12:01:48 -0700
> Matthew Marchese  wrote:
> 
>> Hello all,
> 
>> I have recently pressed the reboot button on the ol' Installer
>> project. I've been able to talk to quite a few developers one-on-one
>> via IRC concerning my plans. Most seem to be in support of Gentoo
>> having a "official" installer (the biggest concern is appears to be
>> how things will be implemented and the amount of features involved).
>> This e-mail is to fulfill GLEP 39's request for comments (RFC),
>> concerns, requests, etc. Since I'm a little new to the project I'm
>> coming with a bit of ignorance; I know the previous Installer project
>> fostered mixed feelings.
> 
>> If you'd like to review before replying you can see the Wiki page and
>> find the source on GitHub: https://github.com/gentoo/stager
> 
>> To summarize I'm writing it in pure Python 3. It first will be able
>> to create full backups (stage 4s) and recoveries. After that is
>> finished I plan to move on to installations. There will potentially
>> be a web interface UI for it. Others are free to create other
>> front-ends; to me a web UI makes the most sense and would probably
>> require the least deps.
> 
>> I'd like to hear it all so please speak your mind. Looking forward to
>> hearing from you.
> 
>> maffblaster
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is your target audience?  New users?  Experienced users?  Not so
> much a comment about your installer, but installers in general, I feel
> the handbook is critically important to helping new users to understand
> Gentoo.

The handbook consists of different sections. Installation is only one of
them. An installer would just "replace" that part, not the others.

> "Greatly aiding the "fresh install process". stager will not
> remove the need for reading through the Handbooks, but rather work
> along side the handbook in order to help users install Gentoo."
> 
> Can you elaborate on this?  I have trouble envisioning an automated 
> installer process that requires working along side the handbook.
> 

See above.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Patrice Clement]

Saturday 18 Jul 2015 15:36:01, NP-Hardass wrote :
> On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 12:01:48 -0700
> Matthew Marchese  wrote:
> 
> > Hello all,
> > 
> > I have recently pressed the reboot button on the ol' Installer
> > project. I've been able to talk to quite a few developers one-on-one
> > via IRC concerning my plans. Most seem to be in support of Gentoo
> > having a "official" installer (the biggest concern is appears to be
> > how things will be implemented and the amount of features involved).
> > This e-mail is to fulfill GLEP 39's request for comments (RFC),
> > concerns, requests, etc. Since I'm a little new to the project I'm
> > coming with a bit of ignorance; I know the previous Installer project
> > fostered mixed feelings.
> > 
> > If you'd like to review before replying you can see the Wiki page and
> > find the source on GitHub: https://github.com/gentoo/stager
> > 
> > To summarize I'm writing it in pure Python 3. It first will be able
> > to create full backups (stage 4s) and recoveries. After that is
> > finished I plan to move on to installations. There will potentially
> > be a web interface UI for it. Others are free to create other
> > front-ends; to me a web UI makes the most sense and would probably
> > require the least deps.
> > 
> > I'd like to hear it all so please speak your mind. Looking forward to
> > hearing from you.
> > 
> > maffblaster
> > 

Hi Matthew
 
I fancy your idea a lot. We ought to do it for complete newbies who are new to
Gentoo but would like to give the distribution a shot nonetheless. I fondly
remember my first attempt who took me ages to complete.. Good times. :)

Following up on NP-Hardass' email in which he's raising good points:
 
> Who is your target audience?  New users?  Experienced users?  Not so
> much a comment about your installer, but installers in general, I feel
> the handbook is critically important to helping new users to understand
> Gentoo. Whether the handbook would remain a resource that users would
> look at if they had an installer remains to be seen.  

IMHO, users should be guided and walked through the installation process. They
should understand what's going on so the Handbook must be equally important as
when a normal chap installs Gentoo without using the installer. 

It should ask users trivial questions, a bit like the Debian CLI installer.

"Which partition do you want to format?"

"How do you want to configure your network interface?"

etc.

Worth mentioning for sysadmins, devops and users alike: automation is all the
rage these days. Beyond creating an installer, it'd be interesting to feed the
program with a sort of "configuration file" so that the whole process can be
performed in one go. Or think about integrating it with Chef, Puppet et al.

I think it's a personal taste here and whether we want to reinvent the wheel or
not.

> The project page > states: 
> 
> "Greatly aiding the "fresh install process". stager will not
> remove the need for reading through the Handbooks, but rather work
> along side the handbook in order to help users install Gentoo."
> 
> Can you elaborate on this?  I have trouble envisioning an automated 
> installer process that requires working along side the handbook.
> 
> I know that you mentioned a web interface.  I assume that you there are
> plans for a simpler, local interface like ncurses or cli, or text in a
> terminal? Is it meant to be interactive?

Python has an ncurses module that allows developers to create interactive
programs out of the box.

The web interface would also be a interesting feature (maybe for remote
installations?) but truth to be told, I see it as a "nice to have" feature
rather than a "must have".

> I like the idea of having an automated installer, so I wish you the
> best of luck with the project.  I'm sure you'll encounter tons of
> people with tons of opinions on what it should and shouldn't be, so
> just do your best to maintain a clear, well-defined vision and stick to
> it.
> 

Definitely. Write a roadmap and stick to it.

Cheers,
Patrice


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[NP-Hardass]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 12:01:48 -0700
Matthew Marchese  wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> I have recently pressed the reboot button on the ol' Installer
> project. I've been able to talk to quite a few developers one-on-one
> via IRC concerning my plans. Most seem to be in support of Gentoo
> having a "official" installer (the biggest concern is appears to be
> how things will be implemented and the amount of features involved).
> This e-mail is to fulfill GLEP 39's request for comments (RFC),
> concerns, requests, etc. Since I'm a little new to the project I'm
> coming with a bit of ignorance; I know the previous Installer project
> fostered mixed feelings.
> 
> If you'd like to review before replying you can see the Wiki page and
> find the source on GitHub: https://github.com/gentoo/stager
> 
> To summarize I'm writing it in pure Python 3. It first will be able
> to create full backups (stage 4s) and recoveries. After that is
> finished I plan to move on to installations. There will potentially
> be a web interface UI for it. Others are free to create other
> front-ends; to me a web UI makes the most sense and would probably
> require the least deps.
> 
> I'd like to hear it all so please speak your mind. Looking forward to
> hearing from you.
> 
> maffblaster
> 
> 
> 

Who is your target audience?  New users?  Experienced users?  Not so
much a comment about your installer, but installers in general, I feel
the handbook is critically important to helping new users to understand
Gentoo. Whether the handbook would remain a resource that users would
look at if they had an installer remains to be seen.  The project page
states: 

"Greatly aiding the "fresh install process". stager will not
remove the need for reading through the Handbooks, but rather work
along side the handbook in order to help users install Gentoo."

Can you elaborate on this?  I have trouble envisioning an automated 
installer process that requires working along side the handbook.

I know that you mentioned a web interface.  I assume that you there are
plans for a simpler, local interface like ncurses or cli, or text in a
terminal? Is it meant to be interactive?

I like the idea of having an automated installer, so I wish you the
best of luck with the project.  I'm sure you'll encounter tons of
people with tons of opinions on what it should and shouldn't be, so
just do your best to maintain a clear, well-defined vision and stick to
it.

- --
NP-Hardass
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[gentoo-dev] [RFC] Rebooting the Installer Project

[Matthew Marchese]

Hello all,

I have recently pressed the reboot button on the ol' Installer project. I've been able to 
talk to quite a few developers one-on-one via IRC concerning my plans. Most seem to be in 
support of Gentoo having a "official" installer (the biggest concern is appears 
to be how things will be implemented and the amount of features involved). This e-mail is 
to fulfill GLEP 39's request for comments (RFC), concerns, requests, etc. Since I'm a 
little new to the project I'm coming with a bit of ignorance; I know the previous 
Installer project fostered mixed feelings.

If you'd like to review before replying you can see the Wiki page and find the 
source on GitHub: https://github.com/gentoo/stager

To summarize I'm writing it in pure Python 3. It first will be able to create 
full backups (stage 4s) and recoveries. After that is finished I plan to move 
on to installations. There will potentially be a web interface UI for it. 
Others are free to create other front-ends; to me a web UI makes the most sense 
and would probably require the least deps.

I'd like to hear it all so please speak your mind. Looking forward to hearing 
from you.

maffblaster