Re: [gentoo-dev] One request for the next SoC: non already-devs students
On 3/2/08, Alec Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 3/2/08, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I know this is going to stir up quite some discussion, but I do think > > it's worth trying requesting it at least. > > > > In the past two years we had quite a few applications from students that > > were already full-fledged Gentoo developers. I sincerely would like that > > this year we put as a rule that Gentoo developers cannot partecipate in > > Summer of Code as students for Gentoo. > > > > I'm not asking to penalise Gentoo developers are students. But I > > sincerely think the main goal of Summer of Code is to allow new people > > to enter the scene of Free Software, to understand how Free Software > > projects work and so on. Gentoo Developers are already pretty well > > "inside" this world. > > > OK > > > > > > I think it should be a self-made decision to abstain from applying as a > > student for what you already partecipate in, but as such concerns don't > > seem to be widespread (at least as the last two years shown), I'm asking > > for a formal decision to all the developers. If that is requested, I'm > > even willing to bring this in front of the council. > > > The summer of code faq specifically addresses this question; so > obviously it was a concern and they dealt with it. Brian suggested I add a link, so ;) http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_already_opensource > > > > > > Gentoo's ranks are quite reduced nowadays, and a few persons have shown > > conerns about our current recruiting methods being able to judge clearly > > technical and social skills, as well as the time one is ready to pour > > into the project. I think SoC could be used as a pretty good recruiting > > method: as you are going to work quite a bit with the student, you can > > easily judge availability and technical and social skills. Leaving SoC > > applications open to developers means wasting this opportunity. > > > OK > > > > > > There are many other organisations partecipating, I think it would be > > quite feasible for Gentoo developers wanting to be a student SoC to > > choose another one, in which they are not involved already. Yes it's > > easier for them to do something for Gentoo as they are already > > contributing, but that is not the point of Summer of Code, the point is > > to introduce new people into projects, not giving money to people to do > > what they already do. > > > Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the Summer of > Code program's primary goal is to recruit new developers for Open > Source projects. While this is one goal I am unsure if holding it > above the others is necessary. > > > > > > And just to take a stance, even if this request is to be rejected, I'm > > not going to mentor a student that is already a Gentoo developer, for > > sure. > > > Your choice, as I badly wrote in the guide[1], mentors must be williing. > > > > > > So to be clear, I'm not trying to look down to anybody, I don't even > > want to stop people from being paid for their work. I just wish that we > > can focus this opportunity to improve the Gentoo project as a whole. > > > I disagree and I will mentor anyone who meets Google's submission > requirements and who writes a good proposal. > > -Alec > > [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/soc/mentoring.xml > -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] One request for the next SoC: non already-devs students
On 3/2/08, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I know this is going to stir up quite some discussion, but I do think > it's worth trying requesting it at least. > > In the past two years we had quite a few applications from students that > were already full-fledged Gentoo developers. I sincerely would like that > this year we put as a rule that Gentoo developers cannot partecipate in > Summer of Code as students for Gentoo. > > I'm not asking to penalise Gentoo developers are students. But I > sincerely think the main goal of Summer of Code is to allow new people > to enter the scene of Free Software, to understand how Free Software > projects work and so on. Gentoo Developers are already pretty well > "inside" this world. OK > > I think it should be a self-made decision to abstain from applying as a > student for what you already partecipate in, but as such concerns don't > seem to be widespread (at least as the last two years shown), I'm asking > for a formal decision to all the developers. If that is requested, I'm > even willing to bring this in front of the council. The summer of code faq specifically addresses this question; so obviously it was a concern and they dealt with it. > > Gentoo's ranks are quite reduced nowadays, and a few persons have shown > conerns about our current recruiting methods being able to judge clearly > technical and social skills, as well as the time one is ready to pour > into the project. I think SoC could be used as a pretty good recruiting > method: as you are going to work quite a bit with the student, you can > easily judge availability and technical and social skills. Leaving SoC > applications open to developers means wasting this opportunity. OK > > There are many other organisations partecipating, I think it would be > quite feasible for Gentoo developers wanting to be a student SoC to > choose another one, in which they are not involved already. Yes it's > easier for them to do something for Gentoo as they are already > contributing, but that is not the point of Summer of Code, the point is > to introduce new people into projects, not giving money to people to do > what they already do. Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the Summer of Code program's primary goal is to recruit new developers for Open Source projects. While this is one goal I am unsure if holding it above the others is necessary. > > And just to take a stance, even if this request is to be rejected, I'm > not going to mentor a student that is already a Gentoo developer, for > sure. Your choice, as I badly wrote in the guide[1], mentors must be williing. > > So to be clear, I'm not trying to look down to anybody, I don't even > want to stop people from being paid for their work. I just wish that we > can focus this opportunity to improve the Gentoo project as a whole. I disagree and I will mentor anyone who meets Google's submission requirements and who writes a good proposal. -Alec [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/soc/mentoring.xml -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] One request for the next SoC: non already-devs students
Thilo Bangert wrote: > it's not just what you "sincerely think"! I most certainly think, you have > a valid point. > > from http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_goals: > And yet from the same site: 7. Can students working on an open source project continue to work on it as part of Google Summer of Code? Yes, as long as they meet all other requirements for program eligibility. Students should be sure to note their previous relationship with the project in their applications. New work will need to be done for the project as part of participation in GSoC. > Google Summer of Code has several goals: > - Inspire young developers to begin participating in open source > development; Do we inspire them by telling them that anybody who has made this choice in the past is not to be rewarded financially for doing so? A bigger concern is this. Which is better for gentoo? Taking somebody who has never worked on gentoo and paying them money to possibly accomplish something on the project, or taking somebody who is already doing quite a bit and pay them so that they can accomplish even more without the distraction of a day job? I do think that recruitment is important, but I think it is a bit of a slap on the face to those who do volunteer to suggest that they're good enough to work for us but not good enough to pay (when it doesn't even cost us a dime to do so). Volunteers work on the stuff they want to work on - SoC isn't so much about paying people to work on Open Source as much as it is about enabling people to work on Open Source when otherwise they'd have to do something else to pay the bills. If somebody doesn't currently want to volunteer for Gentoo, why would they want to after the paychecks stop? And if they do currently volunteer for Gentoo, why would we force them to get involved with some other Open Source project if they wanted to be paid as part of the SoC? -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] One request for the next SoC: non already-devs students
On Sun, Mar 02, 2008 at 04:47:28PM +0100, Diego 'Flameeyes' Petten?? wrote: > In the past two years we had quite a few applications from students that > were already full-fledged Gentoo developers. I sincerely would like that > this year we put as a rule that Gentoo developers cannot partecipate in > Summer of Code as students for Gentoo. +1 from me. More fresh meat^H^H^H^Hdevs are one of the good things that should come out of the SoC. Also, existing devs have their own projects to take care of, while the students should have much better shot at it, without having to leave existing Gentoo stuff to bit-rot temporarily. -- Robin Hugh Johnson Gentoo Linux Developer & Infra Guy E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85 pgpD8mgFxx5Lo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] One request for the next SoC: non already-devs students
> But I > sincerely think the main goal of Summer of Code is to allow new people > to enter the scene of Free Software, to understand how Free Software > projects work and so on. it's not just what you "sincerely think"! I most certainly think, you have a valid point. from http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_goals: Google Summer of Code has several goals: - Get more open source code created and released for the benefit of all; - Inspire young developers to begin participating in open source development; - Help open source projects identify and bring in new developers and committers; - Provide students in Computer Science and related fields the opportunity to do work related to their academic pursuits during the summer (think "flip bits, not burgers"); - Give students more exposure to real-world software development scenarios (e.g., distributed development, software licensing questions, mailing-list etiquette). -- kind regards Thilo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-dev] One request for the next SoC: non already-devs students
I know this is going to stir up quite some discussion, but I do think it's worth trying requesting it at least. In the past two years we had quite a few applications from students that were already full-fledged Gentoo developers. I sincerely would like that this year we put as a rule that Gentoo developers cannot partecipate in Summer of Code as students for Gentoo. I'm not asking to penalise Gentoo developers are students. But I sincerely think the main goal of Summer of Code is to allow new people to enter the scene of Free Software, to understand how Free Software projects work and so on. Gentoo Developers are already pretty well "inside" this world. I think it should be a self-made decision to abstain from applying as a student for what you already partecipate in, but as such concerns don't seem to be widespread (at least as the last two years shown), I'm asking for a formal decision to all the developers. If that is requested, I'm even willing to bring this in front of the council. Gentoo's ranks are quite reduced nowadays, and a few persons have shown conerns about our current recruiting methods being able to judge clearly technical and social skills, as well as the time one is ready to pour into the project. I think SoC could be used as a pretty good recruiting method: as you are going to work quite a bit with the student, you can easily judge availability and technical and social skills. Leaving SoC applications open to developers means wasting this opportunity. There are many other organisations partecipating, I think it would be quite feasible for Gentoo developers wanting to be a student SoC to choose another one, in which they are not involved already. Yes it's easier for them to do something for Gentoo as they are already contributing, but that is not the point of Summer of Code, the point is to introduce new people into projects, not giving money to people to do what they already do. And just to take a stance, even if this request is to be rejected, I'm not going to mentor a student that is already a Gentoo developer, for sure. So to be clear, I'm not trying to look down to anybody, I don't even want to stop people from being paid for their work. I just wish that we can focus this opportunity to improve the Gentoo project as a whole. -- Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò http://blog.flameeyes.eu/ pgpRBzwP21UZC.pgp Description: PGP signature
