[gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)
Peter Volkov wrote:
> Robert Buchholz ?:
>> Thilo Bangert wrote:
>> > HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/";
>>
>> Why not use our package site for this, i.e.
>> HOMEPAGE="http://packages.gentoo.org/package/${CAT}/${PN}";
>
> This is not homepage. HOMEPAGE should point to "package dependent
> information" or in other words to upstream.
Er it is package-specific, and this is for where there is no upstream.
> Same stands to existent or nonexistent link on gentoo.org or any other
> domain. This is even worth as this solution also makes users to open
> another page which just tell them that homepage does not exist...
>
No, the packages site links to a forum search (I'd personally make that
a 'site:forums.gentoo.org' google search across the board, since it's so
much handier, and get some adsense bucks while you're there;) and a
bugzilla search, as well as giving information about all the available
versions in the tree. You should check it out ;p
> So I think if HOMEPAGE does not exist then it's better either put some
> constant there or better make it empty. If we wish, for packages with
> empty HOMEPAGE we can teach tools like emerge -s or eix to show "Home
> page unknown" or "Homepage does not exist". Simple and clear, what else
> do we need? :)
>
An easy way for Gentoo users to contact other people using the software;
given that it's available on Gentoo, and officially dead as far as Gentoo
is aware, having the cli interface display that url (however formulated) is
a plus in support terms, and maybe one day getting the package resurrected.
A gui wrapper like himerge would display the link as clickable, as would a
suitably configured xterm.
So while I agree the empty value in the ebuild is the way to go, I'd
personally like it a lot if Portage at least displayed a useful url (and
the website was ok with it.) If you're going that far for the official
mangler and the site, it seems like something to mandate/specify (I
really /don't/ want to file that bug;)
Is there at least consensus that the above formulation wrt user-display, and
zero-length, would be useful?
(Leaving aside concerns over backward-compatibility/EAPI.)
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)
On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 12:46:24PM +0100, Steve Long wrote:
> Robert Buchholz wrote:
>
> > On Sunday 05 October 2008, Thilo Bangert wrote:
> >> Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> >> > On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
> >> >
> >> > "Robin H. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > > Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
> >> > > homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
> >> >
> >> > HOMEPAGE="( )"
> >>
> >> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/";
> >
> > Why not use our package site for this, i.e.
> > HOMEPAGE="http://packages.gentoo.org/package/${CAT}/${PN}";
> >
> > i.e. for this particular use case,
> > http://packages.gentoo.org/package/app-mobilephone/smssend
> >
> > The site contains a link to ChangeLog, description, current version,
> > forums and bugs. I would suggest it is the most usable homepage a user
> > can expect if no other exists.
> >
> ++ This makes the most sense; it's simple and it enables users to interact
> with the appropriate channels to get support, or file bugs and patches.
>
> If a notice is needed, the website can be amended to state explicitly that
> upstream is dead (if the homepage points to self.)
Use a constant of some sort rather then having the ebuild hardcode the
fallback- this shifts the fallback upto the PM (code rather then data
it operates on) allowing far more flexibility.
An example for why this is a better approach would be if I get really
really bored some afternoon (or exceedingly drunk) and try to match
the package back to a freshmeat url when the homepage is
unknown/unset; using a constant, I can focus on that fun task.
If the fallback url is hardcoded into the ebuild (data), I wind
up having to know of the url scheme for packages.gentoo.org (both
past and present) to be able to detect if the homagepage is
'unset'; it's both buggy and a pita to try that route.
Use a constant of some sort please, it's way saner from a data format
standpoint.
And no, using a packages.gentoo.org is not constant since the url
namespace can potentially change someday, let alone the idiocy of
having to regex it just to discern 'unset' ;)
~brian
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[gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)
Robert Buchholz wrote:
> On Sunday 05 October 2008, Thilo Bangert wrote:
>> Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>> > On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
>> >
>> > "Robin H. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
>> > > homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
>> >
>> > HOMEPAGE="( )"
>>
>> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/";
>
> Why not use our package site for this, i.e.
> HOMEPAGE="http://packages.gentoo.org/package/${CAT}/${PN}";
>
> i.e. for this particular use case,
> http://packages.gentoo.org/package/app-mobilephone/smssend
>
> The site contains a link to ChangeLog, description, current version,
> forums and bugs. I would suggest it is the most usable homepage a user
> can expect if no other exists.
>
++ This makes the most sense; it's simple and it enables users to interact
with the appropriate channels to get support, or file bugs and patches.
If a notice is needed, the website can be amended to state explicitly that
upstream is dead (if the homepage points to self.)
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)
On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:22:14 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò) wrote: > Jeroen Roovers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/abandoned/ > > What about www.unmaintained-free-software.org? Possibly opening a > page? There are two reasons against that I can think: 1) it isn't under our control. 2) related to (1), we cannot form a URL local to that site that incorporates /. A solution like rbu suggested, pointing to packages.g.o, would be preferable over an external site. Of course we could then liaise with www.unmaintained-free-software.org and post a link on packages.g.o to their site if HOMEPAGE is a reference to packages.g.o itself. :) Kind regards, JeR
[gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)
Jeroen Roovers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/abandoned/ What about www.unmaintained-free-software.org? Possibly opening a page? -- Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò http://blog.flameeyes.eu/
[gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)
"Alec Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Sun, 05 Oct 2008 19:52:48 -0700: > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Thilo Bangert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> HOMEPAGE="http://this-package-has-no-homepage.gentoo.org/"; >> > That would impose needless lookups on subdomains of gentoo.org for > clients trying to load the homepage. I like Thilo's suggestion -- modified a bit and with the caveat that such a page is actually created, with some generic details explaining that no other homepage could be found and how Gentoo handles such cases (a link to the DMCA/copyright notification page may be helpful as a CYA, this being written assuming Gentoo has one, I've not checked but if we don't it could save a LOT of trouble if someone makes a mistake...), and encouraging anyone who comes across a homepage for such a package to bug it. The modification bit would be to make it a new page on an existing subdomain. Something like this: http://www.gentoo.org/no-homepage.xml It could be made per-project or the like, too, but that makes it more difficult to auto-detect, for anyone/anything that desires to. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)
081005 Ryan Hill wrote: > 5 Oct 2008 "Robin H. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> For projects where the upstream has vanished off the face of the planet >> but ... the code works fine still, there's problems >> with either the requirements of HOMEPAGE or the repoman check. >> Either we need special cases to declare it no longer has a homepage >> or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE. > I'd rather see "unknown" or something that implies "I looked, no luck" > rather than "I forgot to fill this in". As a user who sometimes checks the upstream site for further info, I strongly support eg 'Unknown' or 'No support site can be found'. Leaving it blank is ambiguous & might even encourage a buzy dev not to bother trying to find a changed upstream site. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
[gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)
On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 03:44:20 -0700
"Robin H. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For projects where the upstream has vanished off the face of the
> planet, and the project was reasonably obscure, but the code works
> fine still, there's problems with either the requirements of HOMEPAGE
> or the repoman check.
>
> From PMS:
> \item[HOMEPAGE] The URI or URIs for a package's homepage, including
> protocols. May be defined by an eclass. See section~\ref{dependencies}
> for full syntax.
>
> Devmanual:
> HOMEPAGE: Package's homepage. If you are unable to locate an official
> one, try to provide a link to freshmeat.net or a similar package
> tracking site. Never refer to a variable name in the string; include
> only raw text.
>
> As Infra, I suggested that zero or more valid URLs should be present
> in the bug where the question was raised.
>
> However repoman doesn't like an empty HOMEPAGE variable:
>
> HOMEPAGE.missing 1
> app-mobilephone/smssend/smssend-3.4.ebuild
>
> Either we need special cases to declare that it no longer has a
> homepage, or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
>
> I'm in favour of allowing the variable to empty, because I'm a lazy
> upstream, and I haven't even made a basic webpage for some of my
> projects (diradm, localshell, readahead-list, etc).
I'd rather see "unknown" or something that implies "I looked, no luck"
rather than "I forgot to fill this in".
--
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