Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: default desktop profile
Martin Schwier wrote: > In the libnotify > case I would vote to make it a static dependency and not useflag > controllable or at least set the useflag by default. I see this so: If upstream thinks, this is an option, the ebuild should reflect this. If upstream thinks, this is vital, the ebuild should also reflect this. The decision, if some feature should always be included, when a package is compiled, should be made by upstream, not by gentoo. There may be cases, where it is wise to not follow this rule for various reason, but this should be made by the package maintainer per package and not be a general rule. This is what makes gentoo a distribution of choices. I don't like feature A, upstream doesn't it's vital and gentoo give me the ability to disable/enable the feature A via USE-flags. As a conclusion, even a lot of peoples likes libnotify, it is not a reason to make it a static dependency and not USE-flag controllable. There may be users, like me, who don't like libnotify. If this is seen as a major profit for most users, doesn't make a lot of problems, its USE-flag could be enabled by default. Myself, who would not prefer to have it enabled by default, can easily reverse that in make.conf. This is only an opinion from a user and reflects a part, on how I see gentoo and what it makes it for me the best distribution out there. Greetings, Jean-Marc Hengen -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: default desktop profile
Martin Schwier wrote: The gnome meta ebuild pulls in way too much stuff. I always have to copy it in my local overlay and have to remove epiphany, evolution, vino, ekiga and more. There are no use flags to control this and I expect many gnome users to use Firefox and Thunderbird instead of epiphany and evolution. (many, not all). If I use the official gnome ebuild instead of my edited one then 35 new packages will be pulled in. Well I think *that* is bloat! The libnotify useflag pulls in one 60k library that don't harm anyone. The official Gnome meta ebuild pulls in what upstream considers to be the Gnome Desktop - thats why it is there, the Gnome herd will *not* change that. As a convenience, they have provided the gnome-light meta ebuild. If Gnome pulls in too much, then take a look at gnome-light. If that pulls in too little, then continue to work on it in your overlay, the Gnome herd does not have time to create multiple ebuilds of the "official" upstream Gnome desktop just because some users don't want this or that, they provide it as a convenience, and that is all. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: default desktop profile
Rémi Cardona wrote: > One of the core Gentoo philosophies is that it's a meta distribution. As > such, the idea of "opt in" rather than "opt out" has been the motto for > quite a while. It's one defining trait of Gentoo. I second that. But gentoo isn't following this philosophies strictly. The profiles are there for giving the user sensible defaults because it isn't always clear which effect a particular useflag has. In the libnotify case I don't expect a new user to know what he gets from this flag and so he won't set it and his desktop experience suffers. > I'll go with Jakub on this one. Adding more stuff is only a disservice > to everyone, including our users. Sure you have to balance the pros and cons of the stuff you add, but there are numerous example in packages where this is not the case. Let me give one: The gnome meta ebuild pulls in way too much stuff. I always have to copy it in my local overlay and have to remove epiphany, evolution, vino, ekiga and more. There are no use flags to control this and I expect many gnome users to use Firefox and Thunderbird instead of epiphany and evolution. (many, not all). If I use the official gnome ebuild instead of my edited one then 35 new packages will be pulled in. Well I think *that* is bloat! The libnotify useflag pulls in one 60k library that don't harm anyone. It is worth to think very good about where to give the user the choice to control his packages and which default to give him. In the libnotify case I would vote to make it a static dependency and not useflag controllable or at least set the useflag by default. Kent Fredric wrote: > No, not everyone has a printer :P Okay, cups is in by default, but the drivers aren't... :-/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: default desktop profile
Martin Schwier wrote: > +bash-completion Well I for one can't stand bash-completion, but I guess I could always disable it if others think it useful. > +bluetooth > +ffmpeg(totem isn't much without it) If it's just for a specific package, there is a default package.use iirc. > +libnotify (gives very nice popup notifications in many programs instead > of an annoying, workflow interrupting dialog box with an OK button) > +ppds (everyone has a printer, and this is needed to configure it > without further investigations. cups is already in) > +startup-notification > -fortran (not 1% of the desktop users need fortran and it speeds up > the compile) I'd have to agree on that one. We've always installed without fortran, and it was easy enough to switch it back in for the user who needed koctave. > -kerberos > -ldap > Well I think those two are there so that samba works well as an Active Directory server, or is integrated better into a Windoze setup. Kerberos was only added recently for that reason, iirc. So I'd vote against losing them for a default install, since integration with heterogeneous networks is so important. Dunno if that can be managed better with package.use. (If I haven't commented on one it means I don't have a preference either way.) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
