On 25 July 2012 02:52, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote:
While I completely understand where Fabian is coming from on all this I
respectfully disagree. Long term gentoo users do NOT read the handbook,
ever. I still install new systems with odd hacks that I picked up when
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 01:15:43PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
I think a news item is reasonable here (in addition to the above). Most
users don't know about the move from /etc/make.conf to
/etc/portage/make.conf. After this change, there will be a
gradually-increasing need to know that a
Sven Vermeulen posted on Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:05:02 + as excerpted:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 01:15:43PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
I think a news item is reasonable here (in addition to the above). Most
users don't know about the move from /etc/make.conf to
/etc/portage/make.conf. After
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On 07/24/2012 04:30 PM, W. Trevor King wrote:
Hmm, are the manuals versioned with a public interface (git clone
…/handbook.git)? That would make finding new gems in the manual
much easier.
Yes, yes they are.
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On 07/24/2012 04:19 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
Another user opinion...it would be a significant improvement to
the stage images and live discs to include the latest copy of the
handbook, so that a network connection isn't required to access
it. But
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Aaron W. Swenson titanof...@gentoo.org wrote:
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On 07/24/2012 04:19 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
Another user opinion...it would be a significant improvement to
the stage images and live discs to include the latest copy
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On 24/07/12 05:13 PM, Brian Harring wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 04:32:00PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
I've often seen cases like these handled by keeping a referenced
file where it's traditionally expected to be found, but leaving a
comment
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On 25-07-2012 13:29, Michael Mol wrote:
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Aaron W. Swenson
titanof...@gentoo.org wrote:
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On 07/24/2012 04:19 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
Another user opinion...it would
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
jmbsvice...@gentoo.org wrote:
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On 25-07-2012 13:29, Michael Mol wrote:
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Aaron W. Swenson
titanof...@gentoo.org wrote:
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On 07/25/2012 10:27 AM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
On 25-07-2012 13:29, Michael Mol wrote:
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Aaron W. Swenson
titanof...@gentoo.org wrote:
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On 07/24/2012
On 23-07-2012 22:10:08 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
jmbsvice...@gentoo.org wrote:
This is just a heads-up for Gentoo users that got used to find
make.conf and make.profile under /etc in stages, that these files will
stop being there
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 12:07:59AM +, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
I've talked with both the PR and Docs team before about this change.
I'll try to help the docs team updating the handbook.
Speaking of which, will this also start the use of the SHA512 WHIRLPOOL
checksums? We've had a
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:48:52 +
Sven Vermeulen sw...@gentoo.org wrote:
Can current users also already use the /etc/portage location? If so,
I can already update the docs now (since I'll need to describe both
of the locations for a while anyhow).
I moved my make.conf to the new location
On 24 July 2012 08:07, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
jmbsvice...@gentoo.org wrote:
Title: Changes on new stages
Author: Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicettojmbsvice...@gentoo.org
Content-Type: text/plain
Posted: 2012-07-27
Revision: 1
News-Item-Format: 1.0
Starting with catalyst 2.0.10, make.conf and
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On 24-07-2012 08:48, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 12:07:59AM +, Jorge Manuel B. S.
Vicetto wrote:
I've talked with both the PR and Docs team before about this
change. I'll try to help the docs team updating the handbook.
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On 24-07-2012 06:54, Fabian Groffen wrote:
On 23-07-2012 22:10:08 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
jmbsvice...@gentoo.org wrote:
This is just a heads-up for Gentoo users that got used to find
On 24-07-2012 10:59:08 +, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
I still don't see why you'd bother all existing users with that
info. Just blog, or (better) write a nice email to -announce, and
update the install docs.
The point of bugging all users was to minimize the risk of a user
not
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
I don't know about general consensus. In my opinion, it's plain spam to
existing users. (And that would IMO be the xth news item in a row to be
spam.)
Can't say I agree here. Some news items have been more useful than
On 24-07-2012 07:20:31 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
I don't know about general consensus. In my opinion, it's plain spam to
existing users. (And that would IMO be the xth news item in a row to be
spam.)
Can't say I
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 24-07-2012 07:20:31 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
I don't know about general consensus. In my opinion, it's plain spam to
existing users. (And
On 24-07-2012 08:01:40 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
As a user who's done a lot of reinstalling this year, I can offer a
couple observations:
1) The handbook contains a barebones make.conf, just as it comes with
a number of other barebones configuration files. You probably don't
need to supply
On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 07:20 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
I don't know about general consensus. In my opinion, it's plain spam to
existing users. (And that would IMO be the xth news item in a row to be
spam.)
Can't
On 24-07-2012 20:13:46 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote:
Apologies for butting in as a user:
As a user of Gentoo from about 2002 or so, with multiple gentoo systems,
this thread is the first I have heard of make.conf moving ... cant
imagine I am the only one! and are you about to break our
Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto posted on Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:54:25 + as
excerpted:
Starting with catalyst 2.0.10, make.conf and make.profile will be moved
from /etc to /etc/portage.
As with other app-focused news items, if it were a catalyst-user-focused
change, you'd set the filter
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On 23/07/12 09:58 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
On 24-07-2012 01:33, Rich Freeman wrote:
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
jmbsvice...@gentoo.org wrote:
I propose to commit this news item in 2 or 3 days. Does
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 24-07-2012 08:01:40 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
3) That news item about udev-181 and a unified /usr is still greeting
new users...and it's still claiming an unmask of 2012-03-19, which is
three months ago. It's quite
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On 24/07/12 07:39 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
From a different angle, perhaps stage3s shouldn't include a
default /etc/make.conf at all. Would solve this issue nicely, and
doesn't require a news item at all, IMO.
Would that work? We still
On 24-07-2012 09:24:03 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
I guess this is a matter of opinion, but on Gentoo I don't think we're
really at much risk of driving people away by OVER-communicating. Our
users are used to things changing and a certain level of
fix-it-yourself, but if we know something is
On 24-07-2012 09:33:39 -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
On 24/07/12 07:39 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
From a different angle, perhaps stage3s shouldn't include a
default /etc/make.conf at all. Would solve this issue nicely, and
doesn't require a news item at all, IMO.
Would that work?
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012, Rich Freeman wrote:
I'll agree that something needs to be done to clean up past news items
that are obsolete. Can we go back and make them expire or just delete
them? Yesterday's news isn't news.
They can simply be removed from the repository. eselect news can
handle
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 24-07-2012 08:01:40 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
3) That news item about udev-181 and a unified /usr is still greeting
new users...and it's still
On 07/24/12 09:21, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
Given that this just affects new installs, is a news item (via
portage) a particularly good way to inform everyone? I was wondering
if it'd make more sense to notify on the website and *definitely*
change the Handbook...
..and maybe include an
On 24-07-2012 13:15:43 -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
I think a news item is reasonable here (in addition to the above).
[snip good arguments]
But that's a news item on (a version of) Portage, not on catalyst and
stage3 building.
--
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level
signature.asc
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On 07/24/2012 09:33 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
On 24-07-2012 09:24:03 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
I guess this is a matter of opinion, but on Gentoo I don't think we're
really at much risk of driving people away by OVER-communicating. Our
users are
On 24-07-2012 14:52:43 -0400, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina wrote:
This is a change that will break all new installs and expecting
experienced gentoo users to read the handbook is simply a fantasy.
I don't see how it breaks. And secondly, if you do refuse to read the
manual, why don't you refuse to
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 24-07-2012 14:52:43 -0400, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina wrote:
This is a change that will break all new installs and expecting
experienced gentoo users to read the handbook is simply a fantasy.
I don't see how it breaks.
On 07/24/12 14:52, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina wrote:
This is a big enough change that it will throw users who do not know,
and my first impression of /etc/make.conf et all missing on a new stage
is file a bug report for a broken stage and assign it to those morons
in releng. (please note the
Rich Freeman wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
I don't know about general consensus. In my opinion, it's plain spam to
existing users. (And that would IMO be the xth news item in a row to be
spam.)
Can't say I agree here. Some news items have
Rich Freeman wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 24-07-2012 14:52:43 -0400, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina wrote:
This is a change that will break all new installs and expecting
experienced gentoo users to read the handbook is simply a fantasy.
I don't
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
Rich Freeman wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 24-07-2012 14:52:43 -0400, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina wrote:
This is a change that will break all new installs and expecting
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On 24/07/12 02:52 PM, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina wrote:
On 07/24/2012 09:33 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
On 24-07-2012 09:24:03 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
I guess this is a matter of opinion, but on Gentoo I don't
think we're really at much risk of
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 03:33:03PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
The difference is that news only communicates what is news. Unless
the manual contains a revision history it contains everything you
already know, perhaps with a gem buried in there somewhere.
This is the same reason why when
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Ian Stakenvicius a...@gentoo.org wrote:
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On 24/07/12 02:52 PM, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina wrote:
On 07/24/2012 09:33 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
On 24-07-2012 09:24:03 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
I guess this is a
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 04:32:00PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Ian Stakenvicius a...@gentoo.org wrote:
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On 24/07/12 02:52 PM, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina wrote:
On 07/24/2012 09:33 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
On
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
jmbsvice...@gentoo.org wrote:
I propose to commit this news item in 2 or 3 days. Does anyone have
any comments about it?
What action if any do you want Gentoo users to take. If I read that
news item the first question I'd have is
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On 24-07-2012 01:33, Rich Freeman wrote:
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
jmbsvice...@gentoo.org wrote:
I propose to commit this news item in 2 or 3 days. Does anyone
have any comments about it?
What action if any
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
jmbsvice...@gentoo.org wrote:
This is just a heads-up for Gentoo users that got used to find
make.conf and make.profile under /etc in stages, that these files will
stop being there and will instead be under /etc/portage. So we are
Il 23/07/2012 20:34, Ben de Groot ha scritto:
I'm assuming this is true for make.globals as well? That should be added
then. And as others have said, there really need to be instructions
what if anything should be done about current installations.
I actually thought make.globals was going to
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