Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
Jakub Moc kirjoitti: On 4/17/07, Bryan Østergaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 06:01:46AM +0200, Jakub Moc wrote: Whoever is in charge, kindly change my bugzilla account to the email address this mail is sent from and take care of the setting the bugzilla privs accordingly. There's still a couple of bugs I've filed and maybe someone will take care of them. (No need to worry, Colin, you can sit on your bugs as long as you wish, I won't disturb you in your limbo), This policy have recently changed as part of an overhaul on retirement procedures. You'll have to create a new user account and watch the [EMAIL PROTECTED] as documented in http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/infrastructure/retire-process.xml (See 'Retire Bugzilla account' part). Oh, wonderful. Thanks so much, really helps and makes a lot of sense to nuke people from the bugs they've themselves filed. Bye. You can still set a watch to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
Christopher Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday 17 April 2007 16:01:46 Jakub Moc wrote: So Since devrel has been so kind and suspended me, based on our brand new CoC, I don't feel any need to stay on this project any more. I'm therefore resigning from this project. I would be grateful if somebody could refer me to the archive URL of the message which triggered this episode so I can make a personal judgment about it? It was posted on -core, so you probably won't be able to read it. V-Li signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
Petteri Räty wrote: You can still set a watch to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Better: you can take your account back in 2 weeks, in the mean time please have a vacation, think about ways to not get too annoyed by people in dummy mode (like me and others from time to time) and please don't be angry because of this forced cool down time =) lu -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
On Tuesday 17 April 2007 22:32:34 Christian Faulhammer wrote: Christopher Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday 17 April 2007 16:01:46 Jakub Moc wrote: So Since devrel has been so kind and suspended me, based on our brand new CoC, I don't feel any need to stay on this project any more. I'm therefore resigning from this project. I would be grateful if somebody could refer me to the archive URL of the message which triggered this episode so I can make a personal judgment about it? It was posted on -core, so you probably won't be able to read it. Correct. I was mystified as to why Jakub had received this treatment. During the relatively short time I have been on this list I have read almost all the postings. While some ofJakub's postings have certainly been somewhat acerbic, I do not recall any which I would classify as 'objectionable'. I just hope we are not going to get overly 'precious' about this CoC thing, which btw, I note contains the colloquial phrase 'If you screw up ...'. That sort of lazy slang language has no place in the official document set of any self-respecting organisation. Might I suggest it be replaced by something akin to 'If you discover you have made as mistake ...'. Also I noticed a simple typo: s/noone/no one/ in the previous paragraph. -- CS -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
On Tuesday 17 April 2007 23:42:36 Wernfried Haas wrote: On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 11:35:01PM +1200, Christopher Sawtell wrote: I just hope we are not going to get overly 'precious' about this CoC thing, which btw, I note contains the colloquial phrase 'If you screw up ...'. That sort of lazy slang language has no place in the official document set of any self-respecting organisation. Might I suggest it be replaced by something akin to 'If you discover you have made as mistake ...'. Also I noticed a simple typo: s/noone/no one/ in the previous paragraph. Thanks for the input, the council already asked us to go over it and do some rewording/a more positive approach/etc. We'll keep your suggestions in mind, too. You might find reading the Debian, and particularly, the Ubuntu Code of Conduct a worth-while execise. http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct I find it interesting that the mainstream media have also started publishing Codes of Conduct for their comment blogs. -- CS -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 11:35:01PM +1200, Christopher Sawtell wrote: I just hope we are not going to get overly 'precious' about this CoC thing, which btw, I note contains the colloquial phrase 'If you screw up ...'. That sort of lazy slang language has no place in the official document set of any self-respecting organisation. Might I suggest it be replaced by something akin to 'If you discover you have made as mistake ...'. Also I noticed a simple typo: s/noone/no one/ in the previous paragraph. Thanks for the input, the council already asked us to go over it and do some rewording/a more positive approach/etc. We'll keep your suggestions in mind, too. cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org pgpGjYv9NCVcq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
On 4/17/07, Steve Long [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jakub Moc wrote: So Since devrel has been so kind and suspended me, based on our brand new CoC, I don't feel any need to stay on this project any more. I'm therefore resigning from this project. OMG NO! Please reconsider. I'm pretty sure it will be actually no loss for Gentoo, since those folks that contributed to my retirement far outweigh the benefit I could ever possibly be to this project. This can be clearly evidenced by their long-lasting good record as in [1] and [2] and [3]. In devrel's own words, one needs to respect the wishes of maintainers. Man first you devs think it's your god-given right to behave nastily to any usr, then you get all sensitive about Jakub on bugzilla. That is lame, imo. Maybe there should be something about requiring a thick skin to be a dev, since you so clearly require it of usrs. Please do some research before spouting off. Watch the bug-wranglers@ alias for a few weeks (its too late now) to see that jakub tended to yell and scream and make a bigger mess than he resolved a lot of the time when it came to bug wrangling. Finally, my thanks go to devrel and especially our devrel lead, for the professional, unbiased etc. conduct they've presented on my devrel bug [5] (sorry, ask your friendly devrel member to unrestrict if you can't read it, after all I can't access it either), as well as before. I indeed entirely failed when I removed myself from the discussion about possible misbehaviour on [my] side. I'm pretty sure the fact that noone CCed me there in the first place for about 9 months was just an unfortunate oversight of our fully professional devrel. So who watches the watchmen? IOW who does one take a complaint about devrel to, and will there be any action? The classic answer was always We watch each other, but that's clearly not working if you are left out of a discussion regarding yourself for 9 months. /me eyes sourceMage in desperation. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
Bryan Østergaard wrote: snip On the contrary we warn people about not behaving badly and if that doesn't help despite many warnings and complaints being filed we finally take to firmer action which is exactly what have happened in this case. snip Regards, Bryan Østergaard Sorry, I am going to have to call bullshit. The only part of that statement that is remotely true is the last line of that paragraph. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
Steev Klimaszewski wrote: [Tue Apr 17 2007, 08:58:59AM CDT] Bryan Østergaard wrote: snip On the contrary we warn people about not behaving badly and if that doesn't help despite many warnings and complaints being filed we finally take to firmer action which is exactly what have happened in this case. snip Regards, Bryan Østergaard Sorry, I am going to have to call bullshit. The only part of that statement that is remotely true is the last line of that paragraph. This sort of e-mail isn't particularly helpful. In essence, you've baldly called somebody a liar in public, while providing no evidence to support your allegation. You might get better results if you at least pretend that you might not have all of the relevant facts (even if you're sure that you do) and ask for clarification based on what you think you know. Here's an example: That last paragraph doesn't seem to agree with what I've observed, where Could you explain where the discrepancy arises? -g2boojum- -- Grant Goodyear Gentoo Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0 9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76 pgpT81TUwtucG.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
Tach Tim, 0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID) Tim Yamin schrieb: So long, and thanks for all the fish... Even I hope you rethink it... V-Li -- Fingerprint: 68C5 D381 B69A A777 6A91 E999 350A AD7C 2B85 9DE3 http://www.gnupg.org/ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
On Monday 31 July 2006 10:21, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:10:45 +0200 Simon Stelling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | Good intentions and trying to be helpful don't keep users or | developers. Screwups lose users and developers. | | It's really funny to hear such a statement from a person who made | several great developers leave the project. No, what's funny is watching people do nothing when Sunrise really is making developers leave. Ciaran, The point is as valid now as it was 3 years ago. We accept that developers leave and don't care. Paul -- Paul de Vrieze Gentoo Developer Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net pgp005qMvHD7d.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:58:32 +0200 Paul de Vrieze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | The point is as valid now as it was 3 years ago. We accept that | developers leave and don't care. I guess you've not been following Gentoo development as of late. Current policy is that developers leaving is grounds to try to get someone fired. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:22:33 -0600 Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | Did you look at *which* actual Gentoo developers are on the list? | | You know, that was a completely unnecessary personal attack. God | forbid anyone take the time to attempt something they think may be | beneficial to the community. If you in all your elitist wisdom think | you can do better then try helping out. If not, then please fuck off. Good intentions and trying to be helpful don't keep users or developers. Screwups lose users and developers. Would you stick a bunch of war evacuees on a plane piloted by Britney Spears if she said she was doing it because she wanted to be helpful? Britney Spears being the Sunrise Developers and the evacuees being.. a bunch of packages that have no relevance whatsoever since they're copies of ebuilds already in bugzilla? When Britney crashes and burns the ebuilds aren't vapourized into a fine red mist. If Sunrise bombs we're back to the status quo with nothing lost. | Even that aside, if a couple of hundred developers can't handle | doing QA for all those maintainer-wanted ebuilds, what makes you | think four people can? | | If a couple of hundred developers actually paid any attention | whatsoever to maintainer-wanted ebuilds then there wouldn't have to | be any such project in the first place. A couple of hundred developers can barely handle the main tree... True. Some of them want to focus on the nastier bits of it though. Why should we stop them? Hostility aside, do you have any alternate ideas? --de. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 00:10:52 -0600 Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Britney Spears being the Sunrise Developers and the evacuees being.. | a bunch of packages that have no relevance whatsoever since they're | copies of ebuilds already in bugzilla? When Britney crashes and | burns the ebuilds aren't vapourized into a fine red mist. If Sunrise | bombs we're back to the status quo with nothing lost. ...except for users, developers and reputation. | Hostility aside, do you have any alternate ideas? I don't have a perfect solution, no. Unfortunately, knowing why one thing won't work doesn't automatically let you know what will. Having said that, any solution that's going to get acceptance from the QA conscious is pretty much going to have to be based around herd-oriented overlays rather than a huge general mishmash, and is going to have to be designed based around requirements rather than around what a few people can shove through before anyone notices... -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
On Monday 31 July 2006 02:21, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: I don't have a perfect solution, no. Unfortunately, knowing why one thing won't work doesn't automatically let you know what will. and knowing what does/doesnt work comes a lot from experience, not solely making conjectures about how we think everything will work out -mike pgpctFAEbtuQ2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Good intentions and trying to be helpful don't keep users or developers. Screwups lose users and developers. It's really funny to hear such a statement from a person who made several great developers leave the project. -- Kind Regards, Simon Stelling Gentoo/AMD64 Developer -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
maillog: 31/07/2006-09:21:51(+0100): Ciaran McCreesh types No, what's funny is watching people do nothing when Sunrise really is making developers leave. Did I miss someone's resignation, or was the plural developers an exaggeration. -- \Georgi Georgiev \ Amy: What about Umbrielle? Fry: Well, \ / [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ it turned out I loved her, but I wasn't in / \ http://www.gg3.net/ \ love with her. Amy: Trouble in bed. \ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:20:16 -0500 Alex Tarkovsky | This no QA accusation is a complete myth. QA led by actual Gentoo | developers is indeed in place at Sunrise [1]. Did you look at *which* actual Gentoo developers are on the list? You know, that was a completely unnecessary personal attack. God forbid anyone take the time to attempt something they think may be beneficial to the community. If you in all your elitist wisdom think you can do better then try helping out. If not, then please fuck off. Even that aside, if a couple of hundred developers can't handle doing QA for all those maintainer-wanted ebuilds, what makes you think four people can? If a couple of hundred developers actually paid any attention whatsoever to maintainer-wanted ebuilds then there wouldn't have to be any such project in the first place. --de. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:22:33 -0600 Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:20:16 -0500 Alex Tarkovsky | | This no QA accusation is a complete myth. QA led by actual | | Gentoo developers is indeed in place at Sunrise [1]. | | Did you look at *which* actual Gentoo developers are on the list? | | You know, that was a completely unnecessary personal attack. God | forbid anyone take the time to attempt something they think may be | beneficial to the community. If you in all your elitist wisdom think | you can do better then try helping out. If not, then please fuck off. Good intentions and trying to be helpful don't keep users or developers. Screwups lose users and developers. Would you stick a bunch of war evacuees on a plane piloted by Britney Spears if she said she was doing it because she wanted to be helpful? | Even that aside, if a couple of hundred developers can't handle | doing QA for all those maintainer-wanted ebuilds, what makes you | think four people can? | | If a couple of hundred developers actually paid any attention | whatsoever to maintainer-wanted ebuilds then there wouldn't have to | be any such project in the first place. A couple of hundred developers can barely handle the main tree... -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
