Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
2009-05-20 20:00:43 Ciaran McCreesh napisał(a): On Wed, 20 May 2009 19:12:56 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfre...@gentoo.org wrote: This error occurs only when there is no up-to-date cache for given ebuild. rsync users would see only the usual masked by: EAPI 3 message. We always have to assume that there might not be an up to date cache. The Gentoo rsync mirrors do not always ship up to date cache, particularly if someone's just changed a widely used eclass. Users can wait an hour and run `emerge --sync` again. Anyway, Portage still allows to install other ebuilds (with lower EAPI) of given package, so this corner case doesn't need to slow down progress. -- Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
On Thu, 21 May 2009 19:57:49 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfre...@gentoo.org wrote: We always have to assume that there might not be an up to date cache. The Gentoo rsync mirrors do not always ship up to date cache, particularly if someone's just changed a widely used eclass. Users can wait an hour and run `emerge --sync` again. ...but that's not what happens. Instead, the users get their screen spammed with annoying messages, get confused and run to bugzilla in droves. This just takes us right back to the bad old days when changing anything would result in mass user confusion. The whole 'EAPI' thing wasn't an arbitrary whim. -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
On Wed, 20 May 2009 19:12:56 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfre...@gentoo.org wrote: This error occurs only when there is no up-to-date cache for given ebuild. rsync users would see only the usual masked by: EAPI 3 message. We always have to assume that there might not be an up to date cache. The Gentoo rsync mirrors do not always ship up to date cache, particularly if someone's just changed a widely used eclass. Newer bash is not something that can be done as an EAPI change with current mechanisms. -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
2009-05-17 19:02:02 Piotr Jaroszyński napisał(a): 2009/5/17 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com: 2009-05-17 18:37:32 Ciaran McCreesh napisał(a): On Sun, 17 May 2009 18:20:21 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com wrote: I would like to suggest to include possibility of using of features of bash-4.0 (and older versions) in local scope of EAPI=3 ebuilds. I know that it's slightly late, but this change is very easy to implement (adjusting RDEPEND of new versions of package managers and updating PMS). No good, for two reasons. First, this is a global scope change Why do you think that it is a global scope change? I have updated the glep, see how it breaks [1]. [1] - http://dev.gentoo.org/~peper/glep-0055.html#use-newer-bash-features This error occurs only when there is no up-to-date cache for given ebuild. rsync users would see only the usual masked by: EAPI 3 message. Here's the updated version of my proposition: * bash-4.0 features are allowed in EAPI=3 (global scope and local scope). * bash-4.0 features temporarily shouldn't be used in gentoo-x86 repository until 1 month has passed since stabilization of =app-shells/bash-4.0* on all architectures. It will give Gentoo developers sufficient time to update app-shells/bash. (app-shells/bash used on system, which generates cache, also should be updated.) -- Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
2009-05-20 19:29:12 Piotr Jaroszyński napisał(a): 2009/5/20 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfre...@gentoo.org: 2009-05-17 19:02:02 Piotr Jaroszyński napisał(a): 2009/5/17 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com: 2009-05-17 18:37:32 Ciaran McCreesh napisał(a): On Sun, 17 May 2009 18:20:21 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com wrote: I would like to suggest to include possibility of using of features of bash-4.0 (and older versions) in local scope of EAPI=3 ebuilds. I know that it's slightly late, but this change is very easy to implement (adjusting RDEPEND of new versions of package managers and updating PMS). No good, for two reasons. First, this is a global scope change Why do you think that it is a global scope change? I have updated the glep, see how it breaks [1]. [1] - http://dev.gentoo.org/~peper/glep-0055.html#use-newer-bash-features This error occurs only when there is no up-to-date cache for given ebuild. rsync users would see only the usual masked by: EAPI 3 message. Relying on cache being valid is doomed to fail. Among other things, what about overlays? People managing overlays can temporarily disallow using bash-4.0 features in their overlays or they can drop support for bash-3, but it is outside of scope of my proposition. -- Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
2009/5/20 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfre...@gentoo.org: 2009-05-17 19:02:02 Piotr Jaroszyński napisał(a): 2009/5/17 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com: 2009-05-17 18:37:32 Ciaran McCreesh napisał(a): On Sun, 17 May 2009 18:20:21 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com wrote: I would like to suggest to include possibility of using of features of bash-4.0 (and older versions) in local scope of EAPI=3 ebuilds. I know that it's slightly late, but this change is very easy to implement (adjusting RDEPEND of new versions of package managers and updating PMS). No good, for two reasons. First, this is a global scope change Why do you think that it is a global scope change? I have updated the glep, see how it breaks [1]. [1] - http://dev.gentoo.org/~peper/glep-0055.html#use-newer-bash-features This error occurs only when there is no up-to-date cache for given ebuild. rsync users would see only the usual masked by: EAPI 3 message. Relying on cache being valid is doomed to fail. Among other things, what about overlays? -- Best Regards, Piotr Jaroszyński
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
On Sun, 17 May 2009 18:20:21 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com wrote: I would like to suggest to include possibility of using of features of bash-4.0 (and older versions) in local scope of EAPI=3 ebuilds. I know that it's slightly late, but this change is very easy to implement (adjusting RDEPEND of new versions of package managers and updating PMS). No good, for two reasons. First, this is a global scope change, and we can't make global scope changes to EAPIs using current mechanisms. EAPIs have to carry on using bash 3 until the EAPI mechanism is changed. Second, by order of the Council, EAPI 3's feature list was locked several weeks ago. If we ignore that for one thing, it just means everyone else who had features that came along too late will start demanding we reconsider those too... -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
2009/5/17 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com: I would like to suggest to include possibility of using of features of bash-4.0 (and older versions) in local scope of EAPI=3 ebuilds. This is glep 55 material. I will update it to reflect that. -- Best Regards, Piotr Jaroszyński
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
2009-05-17 18:37:32 Ciaran McCreesh napisał(a): On Sun, 17 May 2009 18:20:21 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com wrote: I would like to suggest to include possibility of using of features of bash-4.0 (and older versions) in local scope of EAPI=3 ebuilds. I know that it's slightly late, but this change is very easy to implement (adjusting RDEPEND of new versions of package managers and updating PMS). No good, for two reasons. First, this is a global scope change Why do you think that it is a global scope change? and we can't make global scope changes to EAPIs using current mechanisms. EAPIs have to carry on using bash 3 until the EAPI mechanism is changed. IMHO ebuilds are allowed to set DEPEND==app-shells/bash-4.0 and use bash-4.0 features anyway, but it would be easier to just set appropriate EAPI in ebuilds. Second, by order of the Council, EAPI 3's feature list was locked several weeks ago. If we ignore that for one thing, it just means everyone else who had features that came along too late will start demanding we reconsider those too... IMHO addition of this feature would be acceptable. -- Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
2009/5/17 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com: 2009-05-17 18:37:32 Ciaran McCreesh napisał(a): On Sun, 17 May 2009 18:20:21 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com wrote: I would like to suggest to include possibility of using of features of bash-4.0 (and older versions) in local scope of EAPI=3 ebuilds. I know that it's slightly late, but this change is very easy to implement (adjusting RDEPEND of new versions of package managers and updating PMS). No good, for two reasons. First, this is a global scope change Why do you think that it is a global scope change? I have updated the glep, see how it breaks [1]. [1] - http://dev.gentoo.org/~peper/glep-0055.html#use-newer-bash-features -- Best Regards, Piotr Jaroszyński
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
On Sun, 17 May 2009 18:58:58 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com wrote: No good, for two reasons. First, this is a global scope change Why do you think that it is a global scope change? Package managers still need to be able to get the EAPI, even if they don't support newer EAPIs, which means you're restricted to using syntax that bash-3 can parse. Although you can sneak some bash-4 features through bash-3's parser, it gets extremely confusing. and we can't make global scope changes to EAPIs using current mechanisms. EAPIs have to carry on using bash 3 until the EAPI mechanism is changed. IMHO ebuilds are allowed to set DEPEND==app-shells/bash-4.0 and use bash-4.0 features anyway, but it would be easier to just set appropriate EAPI in ebuilds. Er, no. An ebuild's deps aren't met when the package manager generates metadata from the ebuild. Second, by order of the Council, EAPI 3's feature list was locked several weeks ago. If we ignore that for one thing, it just means everyone else who had features that came along too late will start demanding we reconsider those too... IMHO addition of this feature would be acceptable. You could say that about any feature, but the Council chose to just go with an absolute cutoff. -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2009-05-17 18:37:32 Ciaran McCreesh napisał(a): On Sun, 17 May 2009 18:20:21 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com wrote: I would like to suggest to include possibility of using of features of bash-4.0 (and older versions) in local scope of EAPI=3 ebuilds. I know that it's slightly late, but this change is very easy to implement (adjusting RDEPEND of new versions of package managers and updating PMS). No good, for two reasons. First, this is a global scope change Why do you think that it is a global scope change? Because he wants to push GLEP 55. -- Ben de Groot Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc) Gentoo Linux Release Engineering PR liaison __
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
On Sun, 17 May 2009 21:22:57 +0200 Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org wrote: Why do you think that it is a global scope change? Because he wants to push GLEP 55. Ben, please stop that and apologise for your behaviour. It's already been explained why changing bash versions is a global scope change, so you've got no excuse for posting such nonsense. -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
2009/5/17 Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org: Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2009-05-17 18:37:32 Ciaran McCreesh napisał(a): On Sun, 17 May 2009 18:20:21 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com wrote: I would like to suggest to include possibility of using of features of bash-4.0 (and older versions) in local scope of EAPI=3 ebuilds. I know that it's slightly late, but this change is very easy to implement (adjusting RDEPEND of new versions of package managers and updating PMS). No good, for two reasons. First, this is a global scope change Why do you think that it is a global scope change? Because he wants to push GLEP 55. Would you care to look at [1] and see how it breaks first before posting BS like that? Better yet test it youtself. [1] - http://dev.gentoo.org/~peper/glep-0055.html#use-newer-bash-features -- Best Regards, Piotr Jaroszyński
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Allow bash-4.0 features in EAPI=3 ebuilds
Piotr Jaroszyński wrote: 2009/5/17 Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org: Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2009-05-17 18:37:32 Ciaran McCreesh napisał(a): On Sun, 17 May 2009 18:20:21 +0200 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com wrote: I would like to suggest to include possibility of using of features of bash-4.0 (and older versions) in local scope of EAPI=3 ebuilds. I know that it's slightly late, but this change is very easy to implement (adjusting RDEPEND of new versions of package managers and updating PMS). No good, for two reasons. First, this is a global scope change Why do you think that it is a global scope change? Because he wants to push GLEP 55. Would you care to look at [1] and see how it breaks first before posting BS like that? Better yet test it youtself. [1] - http://dev.gentoo.org/~peper/glep-0055.html#use-newer-bash-features Okay, after reading the updated GLEP, I see what you mean. Let's continue to discuss this in the GLEP 55 updated thread, and I promise to be more constructive. -- Ben de Groot Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc) Gentoo Linux Release Engineering PR liaison __
