Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Alan McKinnon  writes:

> On 26/12/2016 20:35, lee wrote:
>> Tom H  writes:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 9:07 PM, lee  wrote:
 Tom H  writes:
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey  wrote:
>>
>> It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network
>> names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than
>> once when multiple network cards are detected in a different order.
>
> >From Kay Sievers in [1]:
>
> 
> Btw, predictable means it will not change between reboots, that names
> will not depend on enumeration order within the same setup. It does
> not mean or promise, that added kernel/driver/firmware features will
> not result in different names. That is expected behavior.
> 
>
> [1] 
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-October/034614.html

 So the names will not change when rebooting and are to be expected to
 possibly change at any time.

 How is that more reliable?
>>>
>>> It's more reliable than using the kernel's names because the names
>>> won't change UNLESS there's kernel/driver/firmware change for that
>>> NIC. I doubt that these changes occur that often. Perhaps someone else
>>> knows.
>> 
>> What happens more often:  That a network card is replaced with a
>> different one or that the software changes?
>> 
>
>
> OK, let me try explain this again.
>
> NIC names are tricky, several posters (myself included) have laid out
> various methods and options by which it can be done. Experience shows
> that in real life the simple traditional names are easy to remember but
> prone to changing and (worse) prone to race conditions. Other methods
> change less often in reality but the names are somewhat trickier to
> remember.
>
> Opinions on these things differ; experience on these things differ and
> people's use cases on these things differ greatly. A coder working in
> this area has to decide what sort of cases they want to support, what
> problems they want to attempt to solve and what new features they want
> to introduce; then they have to write the code.
>
> Once the code is written, the coder then has to decide what nomenclature
> to use when describing the software and the effects it has. In this case
> centered around systemd a word was chosen: "reliable".
>
> Some will think it's a good name, some don't care, some will think it's
> a bad name; and all of those things are basically irrelevant because the
> name doesn't tell you much abut what the software will do. Reading the
> fine manual will tell you that. It's all a part of being human because
> our languages are imprecise, heavily overloaded and hugely redundant. So
> are our spellings. But we are stuck with it because that's the general
> emergent behaviour of a homo sapiens brain.
>
> Arguing abut this is about as nonsensical as arguing about whether "lee"
> is a good handle on a forum or not. To a pedant it's a bad name, one
> can't tell if you are male, female or if it's actually an Asian family
> name
>
> Or one could do what most folk do, and not see a problem with 3 letters

I agree.

What I don't agree with is that unrecognisable names generally make
things easier (though they can, depending on the circumstances).

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Rich Freeman  writes:

> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:47 PM, lee  wrote:
>>
>> Yes, and that doesn't show me news before I sync, or does it?
>>
>
> Correct.
>
> The order to do this in is:
>
> Sync
> Read news.
> Apply updates.

sounds reasonable

> Syncing doesn't affect anything other than /usr/portage (or wherever
> you're keeping it).

Well, kinda?  When you emerge something after syncing, a newer version
might be picked than otherwise?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: should everything compile?

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Holger Hoffstätte  writes:

> On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 22:25:59 +0100, lee wrote:
>
>> Holger Hoffstätte  writes:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 21:09:08 +0100, lee wrote:
>>>
 Hi,
 
 there are some things that refuse to compile.  One of them is
 openimageio.
 
 Is this a bug, or am I missing something?  Do I need to update something
 else first?
>>>
>>> The latter, sort of. The error in question..
>>>
>> 
>>> [...]
 | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
 `Imf_2_1::Header::name[abi:cxx11]() const'
 | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
 `Imf_2_1::Header::setType(std::__cxx11::basic_string const&)'
 | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to
 | `Imf_2_1::TypedAttribute
 | >::writeValueTo(Imf_2_1::OStream&, int) const'
 | collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
>>> [..]
>>>
>>> ..indicates a mismatch in C++11 ABI which changed in gcc5. What happens is 
>>> that one the
>>> dependencies of openimageio was built against the old C++11 std::string ABI 
>>> (hence the
>>> link errors), and needs to be rebuilt. It looks to be "Imf" aka libIlmImf,
>>> whatever that is. Try to rebuild it with --oneshot and it should work.
>>> If a similar error pops up for a different dependency, repeat. :)
>> 
>> Hm, this is really bad because it's difficult to figure out what needs
>> to be rebuilt.  Is there a way to rebuild everything in some order that
>> works?
>
> equery b  or epm -qif tells you which package a file belongs to.
> Purely by searching vie emerge -s it looks like libIlmImf could be
> media-libs/ilmbase.

Yes, I have rebuilt those, and others, using trial and error to figure
out what needs to be rebuilt.

> A full-system approach (probably better in your case) is explained here:
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Upgrading_from_gcc-4.x_to_gcc-5.x

Thanks!  Seems all I need to do is the 'revdep-rebuild', which is now
running.

I hope I don't end up with an unbootable system ...

>> Here's the next one already, and what would I need to rebuild for that?
>
> That looks like a completely different problem (hard to tell from the error)
> but in any case _fix one problem at a time_.

That was some more packages that needed to be rebuilt.

The only thing that doesn't compile yet is cinelerra, which I don't
need for now.  Maybe it works once all the libraries are rebuilt.

Re: [gentoo-user] Installing Gentoo on a VPS with little RAM

2016-12-26 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On Monday, December 26, 2016 09:45:47 PM Francesco Turco wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> I have a Vultr VPS instance with Arch Linux but I'd like to replace it
> with Gentoo Linux. The last time I tried that I couldn't build some
> packages because the kernel killed gcc after a while. Please notice this
> VPS instance has only 768 MiB of RAM. What can I try besides removing
> -pipe from C(XX)FLAGS and setting MAKEOPTS to -j1? Should I add a swap
> partition? Currently there's only a single root btrfs filesystem with @,
> @boot and @home subvolumes. Btrfs doesn't support a swap file as far as
> I know.
> 
> My VPS is currently used for the following things:
> - Static personal website
> - Shaarli (PHP application with no database)
> - Tiny Tiny RSS (PHP application with database)
> - ZNC server
> 
> Thanks.

You could try building all packages on your own system and then installing 
using "-k".
That should avoid any out-of-memory issues.

--
Joost

[gentoo-user] Re: should everything compile?

2016-12-26 Thread Holger Hoffstätte 
On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 22:25:59 +0100, lee wrote:

> Holger Hoffstätte  writes:
> 
>> On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 21:09:08 +0100, lee wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> there are some things that refuse to compile.  One of them is
>>> openimageio.
>>> 
>>> Is this a bug, or am I missing something?  Do I need to update something
>>> else first?
>>
>> The latter, sort of. The error in question..
>>
> 
>> [...]
>>> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
>>> `Imf_2_1::Header::name[abi:cxx11]() const'
>>> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
>>> `Imf_2_1::Header::setType(std::__cxx11::basic_string>> std::char_traits, std::allocator > const&)'
>>> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to
>>> | `Imf_2_1::TypedAttribute>> | std::char_traits, std::allocator >
>>> | >::writeValueTo(Imf_2_1::OStream&, int) const'
>>> | collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
>> [..]
>>
>> ..indicates a mismatch in C++11 ABI which changed in gcc5. What happens is 
>> that one the
>> dependencies of openimageio was built against the old C++11 std::string ABI 
>> (hence the
>> link errors), and needs to be rebuilt. It looks to be "Imf" aka libIlmImf,
>> whatever that is. Try to rebuild it with --oneshot and it should work.
>> If a similar error pops up for a different dependency, repeat. :)
> 
> Hm, this is really bad because it's difficult to figure out what needs
> to be rebuilt.  Is there a way to rebuild everything in some order that
> works?

equery b  or epm -qif tells you which package a file belongs to.
Purely by searching vie emerge -s it looks like libIlmImf could be
media-libs/ilmbase.

A full-system approach (probably better in your case) is explained here:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Upgrading_from_gcc-4.x_to_gcc-5.x

> Here's the next one already, and what would I need to rebuild for that?

That looks like a completely different problem (hard to tell from the error)
but in any case _fix one problem at a time_.

-h

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread Rich Freeman 
On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:47 PM, lee  wrote:
>
> Yes, and that doesn't show me news before I sync, or does it?
>

Correct.

The order to do this in is:

Sync
Read news.
Apply updates.

Syncing doesn't affect anything other than /usr/portage (or wherever
you're keeping it).

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Installing Gentoo on a VPS with little RAM

2016-12-26 Thread Bill Kenworthy 
On 27/12/16 07:15, taii...@gmx.com wrote:
> On 12/26/2016 03:45 PM, Francesco Turco wrote:
> 
>> Hello.
>>
>> I have a Vultr VPS instance with Arch Linux but I'd like to replace it
>> with Gentoo Linux. The last time I tried that I couldn't build some
>> packages because the kernel killed gcc after a while. Please notice this
>> VPS instance has only 768 MiB of RAM. What can I try besides removing
>> -pipe from C(XX)FLAGS and setting MAKEOPTS to -j1? Should I add a swap
>> partition? Currently there's only a single root btrfs filesystem with @,
>> @boot and @home subvolumes. Btrfs doesn't support a swap file as far as
>> I know.
>>
>> My VPS is currently used for the following things:
>> - Static personal website
>> - Shaarli (PHP application with no database)
>> - Tiny Tiny RSS (PHP application with database)
>> - ZNC server
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
> How about do a distributed compile via an SSH tunnel?
> 

I recently built gcc, glibc etc on a raspberry pi model B (arm, 32G sd
card, 512M ram, 1G swap)

Used swap, ccache, distcc to a VM setup to cross-compile, -j1 and made
sure it was otherwise lightly loaded.

For a temp swap if limited by btrfs, FAQ's suggest swap over nfs (I have
used this at times and it can be flakey/hard to get to work consistently
- diskless intel atoms) or via a loopback.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Alan McKinnon  writes:

> On 26/12/2016 20:24, lee wrote:
>> Rich Freeman  writes:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:52 PM, lee  wrote:

 I didn't see portage or anything else give me any instructions or
 warnings about this.  The names just suddenly changed, and that screwed
 things up.

>>>
>>> https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2013-03-29-udev-upgrade.html
>>>
>>> This shows up in eselect news list (and so on), and portage will tell
>> 
>> I never use that because I find it very awkward.  Why doesn't portage
>> just send me the news by email?
>
> It will if you set it up that way.

Oh I should do that then.

> It's not a default because portage
> doesn't know your email address (unless you want to deliver mail locally
> to root's mbox)

It could simply ask me.  Now I need to figure out how to make it send
mails.

>>> you when you have unread news items.  Note that it only shows up if
>>> you have >>
>>> Generally you want to read those BEFORE you go installing packages,
>>> since it may pertain to a package you're about to update.
>> 
>> Updating usually affects over 200 packages.  What's a good way to read
>> the news in advance?
>
> I think you are conflating news with something else, perhaps elogs. Rich
> means to run "eselect news list".

Yes, and that doesn't show me news before I sync, or does it?

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Alan McKinnon  writes:

> On 26/12/2016 21:42, lee wrote:
>> Well, I guess you haven't realised yet that reality doesn't exist.
>> Bubbles are a self-imposed limit for those who believe in reality.
>> You probably hit that wall and now try hard to remain confined.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, this won't make sense to you until you come to realise.
>
>
> I *strongly* recommend you cease insulting people's intelligence on this
> list.

It was not my intention to do that, and if I did, I apologize.

Different people realise different things.  There are many things I will
never realise and others I have.  There are things I won't understand
before I have realised what is necessary to realise to understand them.
Finding that someone won't understand something before they have
realised something doesn't insult anyones intelligence.


> This list (gentoo-user) contains the brightest minds, widest range of
> experience (both CS-related and just generally in life), most articulate
> and surprisingly, most tolerant, bunch of people I have ever come across
> online; and I've been here for 10 years and doing online for 20+ years
> and the above is not meant idly.
>
> I can't watch you type and I can't get in your headspace but based just
> on what I read from you, your communications say something that is
> frankly, very insulting to those individuals. There is no need to
> disparage someone else just because their frame of reference differs
> from yours.
>
> Alan
>
> p.s. You have a very long way to go still before you begin to match
> Dale's contributions here.

So this is supposed to be a competition?

Re: [gentoo-user] Installing Gentoo on a VPS with little RAM

2016-12-26 Thread taii...@gmx.com 

On 12/26/2016 03:45 PM, Francesco Turco wrote:


Hello.

I have a Vultr VPS instance with Arch Linux but I'd like to replace it
with Gentoo Linux. The last time I tried that I couldn't build some
packages because the kernel killed gcc after a while. Please notice this
VPS instance has only 768 MiB of RAM. What can I try besides removing
-pipe from C(XX)FLAGS and setting MAKEOPTS to -j1? Should I add a swap
partition? Currently there's only a single root btrfs filesystem with @,
@boot and @home subvolumes. Btrfs doesn't support a swap file as far as
I know.

My VPS is currently used for the following things:
- Static personal website
- Shaarli (PHP application with no database)
- Tiny Tiny RSS (PHP application with database)
- ZNC server

Thanks.


How about do a distributed compile via an SSH tunnel?

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread Dale 
lee wrote:
> Dale  writes:
>
>> lee wrote:
>>> Dale  writes:
>>>
 lee wrote:

>>> Well, I guess you haven't realised yet that reality doesn't exist.
>>> Bubbles are a self-imposed limit for those who believe in reality.
>>> You probably hit that wall and now try hard to remain confined.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, this won't make sense to you until you come to realise.
>>>
>>>
>> So, because you THINK two ports is the default, then it is even when you
>> can't post a single thing to back it up?  Keep in mind, I researched
>> this and posted how I did it.  That research does NOT support what you
>> THINK.  The sooner you realize that just because you think something is
>> the default doesn't make it so, the better for you it will be.  As I
>> also pointed out, I'm not the only one who says you are wrong.  To this
>> point, no one else has posted to support your claim either. 
>>
>> To put it bluntly, two ports is NOT the default and never has been
>> either.  Based on the research I did, it isn't even going to be the
>> default anytime soon.  You are wrong, period.  Until you can post a fact
>> that backs up your claim, you are wrong.  I've said it, others have said
>> it and yet you are still posting something as fact even when proven to
>> be wrong. 
>>
>> Whether you call it a bubble or call it cow crap, you are not posting
>> facts or even a informed opinion.  I call it BS.  Let me know when you
>> can post some facts to back up your claim. 
> Like I said, it doesn't make sense to you.
>
>


Because it isn't true or accurate.  It only makes sense if you want to
ignore facts and what is really out in the world being sold and used. 
Again, it is not just me that says this.  Others have posted the same as
me.  It's you who needs to use some sense. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 26/12/2016 20:35, lee wrote:
> Tom H  writes:
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 9:07 PM, lee  wrote:
>>> Tom H  writes:
 On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey  wrote:
>
> It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network
> names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than
> once when multiple network cards are detected in a different order.

 >From Kay Sievers in [1]:

 
 Btw, predictable means it will not change between reboots, that names
 will not depend on enumeration order within the same setup. It does
 not mean or promise, that added kernel/driver/firmware features will
 not result in different names. That is expected behavior.
 

 [1] 
 https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-October/034614.html
>>>
>>> So the names will not change when rebooting and are to be expected to
>>> possibly change at any time.
>>>
>>> How is that more reliable?
>>
>> It's more reliable than using the kernel's names because the names
>> won't change UNLESS there's kernel/driver/firmware change for that
>> NIC. I doubt that these changes occur that often. Perhaps someone else
>> knows.
> 
> What happens more often:  That a network card is replaced with a
> different one or that the software changes?
> 


OK, let me try explain this again.

NIC names are tricky, several posters (myself included) have laid out
various methods and options by which it can be done. Experience shows
that in real life the simple traditional names are easy to remember but
prone to changing and (worse) prone to race conditions. Other methods
change less often in reality but the names are somewhat trickier to
remember.

Opinions on these things differ; experience on these things differ and
people's use cases on these things differ greatly. A coder working in
this area has to decide what sort of cases they want to support, what
problems they want to attempt to solve and what new features they want
to introduce; then they have to write the code.

Once the code is written, the coder then has to decide what nomenclature
to use when describing the software and the effects it has. In this case
centered around systemd a word was chosen: "reliable".

Some will think it's a good name, some don't care, some will think it's
a bad name; and all of those things are basically irrelevant because the
name doesn't tell you much abut what the software will do. Reading the
fine manual will tell you that. It's all a part of being human because
our languages are imprecise, heavily overloaded and hugely redundant. So
are our spellings. But we are stuck with it because that's the general
emergent behaviour of a homo sapiens brain.

Arguing abut this is about as nonsensical as arguing about whether "lee"
is a good handle on a forum or not. To a pedant it's a bad name, one
can't tell if you are male, female or if it's actually an Asian family
name

Or one could do what most folk do, and not see a problem with 3 letters

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Dale  writes:

> lee wrote:
>> Dale  writes:
>>
>>> lee wrote:
 Dale  writes:

> lee wrote:
>> Dale  writes:
>>
>>> lee wrote:
 Dale  writes:

 I didn't go look at boards I had around here.  I went to a major
 computer supplier, newegg, and looked at what they had.  Go back and
 read again what I did and maybe read it more carefully. 

 Might I also add, it's more than just me that has pointed out that you
 are not correct on this.  It's a few others as well.  You ever stop to
 think that what you observe is not the normal and certainly not the
 default?  If what you claim was even remotely accurate, newegg would
 have had a lot larger number of boards with two ports on it.  Thing is,
 they didn't.  Kai pointed out that the same is true in Europe.  
 Why would I assume that what someone else observes is a default?
 Besides, I don't see what problem you're having with this.


>>> Then why would what you observe also be claimed to be the default?   As
>>> I also pointed out, it's not just what I observe, it's what I and others
>>> have observed as well.  So far, you are the only person claiming that
>>> two ports on a home user board is the default.  I have not seen anyone
>>> else post that you are correct.  Others have posted that you are not
>>> correct tho. 
>>>
>>> The problem is, you claim that having two ports is the default.  It is
>>> not the default.  I've said it, even researched it and explained how I
>>> researched it, others have also posted the same point.  Just because you
>>> have boards with two ports does not mean it is a default.  Given the
>>> research I did, it isn't even close.  Boards with two ports for a home
>>> user is not only not the default, it's somewhat rare.  Out of the top 72
>>> boards I checked, only a couple or so had two ports.  That is far from
>>> being the default.  That is quite rare.  Even if it was 5 boards, that
>>> would be under 10%.  That is hardly something to call a default.  If it
>>> were say 50%, then one could at least argue that the default is moving
>>> to having two ports.  It's just not the case. 
>>>
>>> The sooner you figure that out the better for you. 
>> And eating rice is the default because so many people do it ...
>>
>> .
>>
> You can claim that having two ports is the default but that isn't
> supported by a single fact.  As I said, the only person who thinks it is
> a default is you.  The default would be set by the manufacturers.  Since
> what is manufactured has to be sold, one good way to find out what the
> default is, go look at what is being sold.  When you see something that
> is common, like say four USB ports, then that is the default.  Another
> example, if most all boards have five PCI-e slots, then that is the
> default.  If you want six slots, seven slots or more, then you are
> likely going to pay extra and have fewer buying options because that is
> not the default. 
>
> Using your logic, no one eats rice since so much of it is grown and
> sold.  If rice was not grown and not sold, then your logic would work. 
> So, your post doesn't even make sense.  The manufacturers of boards by a
> large margin puts one ethernet port on a home use board and even most
> office computers only need one port.  If one goes and looks at what is
> being manufactured and sold, they would be able to see that.  Of course,
> some people can't see it even when several people post the facts.  It
> seems some will never get the idea. 
 Rice is not eaten much around here, so it's not the default type of
 food.

 Besides, people buy what is being manufactured.  If all boards were
 manufactured with 4 ports, it wouldn't stop ppl from buying them, and if
 no rice was grown, it wouldn't stop ppl from eating (if sufficient
 quantities of other types of food were available).


>>> Rice isn't eaten much around here either.  That IS NOT the point tho. 
>> By way of your argumentation, it's still the default food.  You're
>> saying you aren't eating it much.  I would have to conclude that you're
>> living in a bubble outside of reality.
>>
>> Or I could simply acknowledge that you have a different default.
>>
>>> The point is that having two ports is not the default.  As I said
>>> before, if what you claim were even remotely true, then board sellers
>>> would be listing boards with two ports by huge numbers.  They are not. 
>>> It is rare even.  Well under 10%, likely less than 5%.  That is FAR from
>>> being a default.  Anyone claiming otherwise is delusional. 
>>>
>>> Given your other posts, I've

Re: [gentoo-user] Installing Gentoo on a VPS with little RAM

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Francesco Turco  writes:

> Hello.
>
> I have a Vultr VPS instance with Arch Linux but I'd like to replace it
> with Gentoo Linux. The last time I tried that I couldn't build some
> packages because the kernel killed gcc after a while. Please notice this
> VPS instance has only 768 MiB of RAM. What can I try besides removing
> -pipe from C(XX)FLAGS and setting MAKEOPTS to -j1? Should I add a swap
> partition? Currently there's only a single root btrfs filesystem with @,
> @boot and @home subvolumes. Btrfs doesn't support a swap file as far as
> I know.

You could verify if it really does run out of memory.  If that happens,
adding a swap file or a swap partition or more memory might help.

> My VPS is currently used for the following things:
> - Static personal website
> - Shaarli (PHP application with no database)
> - Tiny Tiny RSS (PHP application with database)
> - ZNC server
>
> Thanks.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: should everything compile?

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Holger Hoffstätte  writes:

> On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 21:09:08 +0100, lee wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> 
>> there are some things that refuse to compile.  One of them is
>> openimageio.
>> 
>> Is this a bug, or am I missing something?  Do I need to update something
>> else first?
>
> The latter, sort of. The error in question..
>

> [...]
>> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
>> `Imf_2_1::Header::name[abi:cxx11]() const'
>> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
>> `Imf_2_1::Header::setType(std::__cxx11::basic_string> std::char_traits, std::allocator > const&)'
>> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to
>> | `Imf_2_1::TypedAttribute> | std::char_traits, std::allocator >
>> | >::writeValueTo(Imf_2_1::OStream&, int) const'
>> | collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
> [..]
>
> ..indicates a mismatch in C++11 ABI which changed in gcc5. What happens is 
> that one the
> dependencies of openimageio was built against the old C++11 std::string ABI 
> (hence the
> link errors), and needs to be rebuilt. It looks to be "Imf" aka libIlmImf,
> whatever that is. Try to rebuild it with --oneshot and it should work.
> If a similar error pops up for a different dependency, repeat. :)

Hm, this is really bad because it's difficult to figure out what needs
to be rebuilt.  Is there a way to rebuild everything in some order that
works?

Here's the next one already, and what would I need to rebuild for that?
I can remove the package, though there will probably many more that
don't compile.


,
| >>> Emerging (19 of 109) dev-ml/camlp4-4.02.1_p3::gentoo
|  * camlp4-4.02.1_p3.tar.gz SHA256 SHA512 WHIRLPOOL size ;-) ...   

 [ ok ]
| >>> Unpacking source...
| >>> Unpacking camlp4-4.02.1_p3.tar.gz to 
/var/tmp/portage/dev-ml/camlp4-4.02.1_p3/work
| >>> Source unpacked in /var/tmp/portage/dev-ml/camlp4-4.02.1_p3/work
| >>> Preparing source in 
/var/tmp/portage/dev-ml/camlp4-4.02.1_p3/work/camlp4-4.02.1-3 ...
| >>> Source prepared.
| >>> Configuring source in 
/var/tmp/portage/dev-ml/camlp4-4.02.1_p3/work/camlp4-4.02.1-3 ...
| >>> Source configured.
| >>> Compiling source in 
/var/tmp/portage/dev-ml/camlp4-4.02.1_p3/work/camlp4-4.02.1-3 ...
| make -j16 byte 
| ocamlbuild -classic-display -no-ocamlfind  `./build/camlp4-byte-only.sh`
| + echo camlp4/Camlp4.cmo camlp4/Camlp4Top.cmo camlp4/camlp4prof.byte 
camlp4/mkcamlp4.byte camlp4/camlp4.byte camlp4/camlp4fulllib.cma 
camlp4/camlp4boot.byte camlp4/camlp4boot.cma camlp4/camlp4r.byte 
camlp4/camlp4r.cma camlp4/camlp4rf.byte
|  camlp4/camlp4rf.cma camlp4/camlp4o.byte camlp4/camlp4o.cma 
camlp4/camlp4of.byte camlp4/camlp4of.cma camlp4/camlp4oof.byte 
camlp4/camlp4oof.cma camlp4/camlp4orf.byte camlp4/camlp4orf.cma 
camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4AstLoader.cmo camlp4/Cam
| lp4Parsers/Camlp4DebugParser.cmo camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4GrammarParser.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4ListComprehension.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4MacroParser.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4OCamlOriginalQuotationExpander.cmo camlp4
| /Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4OCamlParser.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4OCamlParserParser.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4OCamlReloadedParser.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4OCamlRevisedParser.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4OCamlRevisedParserParser
| .cmo camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4OCamlRevisedQuotationExpander.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4QuotationCommon.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Parsers/Camlp4QuotationExpander.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Printers/Camlp4AstDumper.cmo camlp4/Camlp4Printers/Camlp4AutoPr
| inter.cmo camlp4/Camlp4Printers/Camlp4NullDumper.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Printers/Camlp4OCamlAstDumper.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Printers/Camlp4OCamlPrinter.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Printers/Camlp4OCamlRevisedPrinter.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Filters/Camlp4AstLifter.cmo 
| camlp4/Camlp4Filters/Camlp4ExceptionTracer.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Filters/Camlp4FoldGenerator.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Filters/Camlp4LocationStripper.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Filters/Camlp4MapGenerator.cmo 
camlp4/Camlp4Filters/Camlp4MetaGenerator.cmo camlp4/Ca
| mlp4Filters/Camlp4Profiler.cmo camlp4/Camlp4Filters/Camlp4TrashRemover.cmo
| /usr/bin/ocamlopt.opt unix.cmxa -I /usr/lib64/ocaml/ocamlbuild 
/usr/lib64/ocaml/ocamlbuild/ocamlbuildlib.cmxa myocamlbuild_config.ml 
myocamlbuild.ml /usr/lib64/ocaml/ocamlbuild/ocamlbuild.cmx -o myocamlbuild
| /usr/bin/ocamldep.opt -modules camlp4/boot/camlp4boot.ml > 
camlp4/boot/camlp4boot.ml.depends
| /usr/bin/ocamldep.opt -modules camlp4/boot/Camlp4.ml > 
camlp4/boot/Camlp4.ml.depends
| /usr/bin/ocamldep.opt -modules camlp4/config/Camlp4_config.mli > 
camlp4/config/Camlp4_config.mli.depends
| cp /usr/lib64/ocaml/compiler-libs/warnings.cmi camlp4/import/warnings.cmi
| cp /usr/lib64/ocaml/compiler-libs/location.cmi

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 26/12/2016 21:42, lee wrote:
> Well, I guess you haven't realised yet that reality doesn't exist.
> Bubbles are a self-imposed limit for those who believe in reality.
> You probably hit that wall and now try hard to remain confined.
> 
> Unfortunately, this won't make sense to you until you come to realise.


I *strongly* recommend you cease insulting people's intelligence on this
list.

This list (gentoo-user) contains the brightest minds, widest range of
experience (both CS-related and just generally in life), most articulate
and surprisingly, most tolerant, bunch of people I have ever come across
online; and I've been here for 10 years and doing online for 20+ years
and the above is not meant idly.

I can't watch you type and I can't get in your headspace but based just
on what I read from you, your communications say something that is
frankly, very insulting to those individuals. There is no need to
disparage someone else just because their frame of reference differs
from yours.

Alan

p.s. You have a very long way to go still before you begin to match
Dale's contributions here.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 26/12/2016 20:24, lee wrote:
> Rich Freeman  writes:
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:52 PM, lee  wrote:
>>>
>>> I didn't see portage or anything else give me any instructions or
>>> warnings about this.  The names just suddenly changed, and that screwed
>>> things up.
>>>
>>
>> https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2013-03-29-udev-upgrade.html
>>
>> This shows up in eselect news list (and so on), and portage will tell
> 
> I never use that because I find it very awkward.  Why doesn't portage
> just send me the news by email?

It will if you set it up that way. It's not a default because portage
doesn't know your email address (unless you want to deliver mail locally
to root's mbox)

>> you when you have unread news items.  Note that it only shows up if
>> you have >
>> Generally you want to read those BEFORE you go installing packages,
>> since it may pertain to a package you're about to update.
> 
> Updating usually affects over 200 packages.  What's a good way to read
> the news in advance?

I think you are conflating news with something else, perhaps elogs. Rich
means to run "eselect news list".


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: should everything compile?

2016-12-26 Thread Holger Hoffstätte 
On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 21:09:08 +0100, lee wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> there are some things that refuse to compile.  One of them is
> openimageio.
> 
> Is this a bug, or am I missing something?  Do I need to update something
> else first?

The latter, sort of. The error in question..

[..]
> | [100%] Linking CXX executable oiiotool
> | cd 
> /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13_build/src/oiiotool
>  && /usr/bin/cmake -E cmake_link_script CMakeFiles/oiiotool.dir/link.txt 
> --verbose=1
> | ccache /usr/bin/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-g++   -O2 -pipe -march=westmere -mmmx 
> -msse -msse2 -msse3 -mssse3 -mcx16 -msahf -maes -mpclmul -mpopcnt -msse4.2 
> -msse4.1 -mfxsr --param l1-cache-size=32 --param l1-cache-line-size=64 
> --param l2-cache-s
> | ize=12288 -mtune=westmere -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-stack-protector
> -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed CMakeFiles/oiiotool.dir/oiiotool.cpp.o 
> CMakeFiles/oiiotool.dir/diff.cpp.o CMakeFiles/oiiotool.dir/imagerec.cpp.o 
> CMakeFiles/oiiotool.dir/printi
> | nfo.cpp.o  -o oiiotool -rdynamic ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13 
> -lboost_filesystem-mt -lboost_regex-mt -lboost_system-mt -lboost_thread-mt 
> -lboost_chrono-mt -lboost_date_time-mt -lboost_atomic-mt -lrt -ldl -lssl 
> -lcrypto -lfre
> | etype -lpng -lz -ltiff -ljpeg -lIlmImf -lImath -lIex -lHalf -lIlmThread 
> -lpthread -lopenjpeg -lwebp -lgif -lz -ltiff -ljpeg -lIlmImf -lImath -lIex 
> -lHalf -lIlmThread -lpthread -lopenjpeg -lwebp -lgif -lpugixml 
> -Wl,-rpath,/var/tmp/portage/
> | 
> media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13_build/src/libOpenImageIO:
>  
> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
> `Imf_2_1::TypedAttribute std::char_traits, std::allocator >, 
> std::allocator | char_traits, std::allocator > > > 
> >::writeValueTo(Imf_2_1::OStream&, int) const'
> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
> `Imf_2_1::TypedAttribute std::char_traits, std::allocator > 
> >::readValueFrom(Imf_2_1::IStream&, int, int)'
> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
> `Imf_2_1::Header::type[abi:cxx11]() const'
> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
> `Imf_2_1::TypedAttribute std::char_traits, std::allocator >, 
> std::allocator | char_traits, std::allocator > > > 
> >::readValueFrom(Imf_2_1::IStream&, int, int)'
> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
> `Imf_2_1::TypedAttribute std::char_traits, std::allocator > >::staticTypeName()'
> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
> `Imf_2_1::TypedAttribute std::char_traits, std::allocator >, 
> std::allocator | char_traits, std::allocator > > > >::staticTypeName()'
> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
> `Imf_2_1::Header::name[abi:cxx11]() const'
> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
> `Imf_2_1::Header::setType(std::__cxx11::basic_string std::char_traits, std::allocator > const&)'
> | ../libOpenImageIO/libOpenImageIO.so.1.6.13: undefined reference to 
> `Imf_2_1::TypedAttribute std::char_traits, std::allocator > 
> >::writeValueTo(Imf_2_1::OStream&, int) const'
> | collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
[..]

..indicates a mismatch in C++11 ABI which changed in gcc5. What happens is that 
one the
dependencies of openimageio was built against the old C++11 std::string ABI 
(hence the
link errors), and needs to be rebuilt. It looks to be "Imf" aka libIlmImf,
whatever that is. Try to rebuild it with --oneshot and it should work.
If a similar error pops up for a different dependency, repeat. :)

-h

[gentoo-user] Installing Gentoo on a VPS with little RAM

2016-12-26 Thread Francesco Turco 
Hello.

I have a Vultr VPS instance with Arch Linux but I'd like to replace it
with Gentoo Linux. The last time I tried that I couldn't build some
packages because the kernel killed gcc after a while. Please notice this
VPS instance has only 768 MiB of RAM. What can I try besides removing
-pipe from C(XX)FLAGS and setting MAKEOPTS to -j1? Should I add a swap
partition? Currently there's only a single root btrfs filesystem with @,
@boot and @home subvolumes. Btrfs doesn't support a swap file as far as
I know.

My VPS is currently used for the following things:
- Static personal website
- Shaarli (PHP application with no database)
- Tiny Tiny RSS (PHP application with database)
- ZNC server

Thanks.

-- 
https://www.fturco.net/

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread Dale 
lee wrote:
> Dale  writes:
>
>> lee wrote:
>>> Dale  writes:
>>>
 lee wrote:
> Dale  writes:
>
>> lee wrote:
>>> Dale  writes:
>>>
>>> I didn't go look at boards I had around here.  I went to a major
>>> computer supplier, newegg, and looked at what they had.  Go back and
>>> read again what I did and maybe read it more carefully. 
>>>
>>> Might I also add, it's more than just me that has pointed out that you
>>> are not correct on this.  It's a few others as well.  You ever stop to
>>> think that what you observe is not the normal and certainly not the
>>> default?  If what you claim was even remotely accurate, newegg would
>>> have had a lot larger number of boards with two ports on it.  Thing is,
>>> they didn't.  Kai pointed out that the same is true in Europe.  
>>> Why would I assume that what someone else observes is a default?
>>> Besides, I don't see what problem you're having with this.
>>>
>>>
>> Then why would what you observe also be claimed to be the default?   As
>> I also pointed out, it's not just what I observe, it's what I and others
>> have observed as well.  So far, you are the only person claiming that
>> two ports on a home user board is the default.  I have not seen anyone
>> else post that you are correct.  Others have posted that you are not
>> correct tho. 
>>
>> The problem is, you claim that having two ports is the default.  It is
>> not the default.  I've said it, even researched it and explained how I
>> researched it, others have also posted the same point.  Just because you
>> have boards with two ports does not mean it is a default.  Given the
>> research I did, it isn't even close.  Boards with two ports for a home
>> user is not only not the default, it's somewhat rare.  Out of the top 72
>> boards I checked, only a couple or so had two ports.  That is far from
>> being the default.  That is quite rare.  Even if it was 5 boards, that
>> would be under 10%.  That is hardly something to call a default.  If it
>> were say 50%, then one could at least argue that the default is moving
>> to having two ports.  It's just not the case. 
>>
>> The sooner you figure that out the better for you. 
> And eating rice is the default because so many people do it ...
>
> .
>
 You can claim that having two ports is the default but that isn't
 supported by a single fact.  As I said, the only person who thinks it is
 a default is you.  The default would be set by the manufacturers.  Since
 what is manufactured has to be sold, one good way to find out what the
 default is, go look at what is being sold.  When you see something that
 is common, like say four USB ports, then that is the default.  Another
 example, if most all boards have five PCI-e slots, then that is the
 default.  If you want six slots, seven slots or more, then you are
 likely going to pay extra and have fewer buying options because that is
 not the default. 

 Using your logic, no one eats rice since so much of it is grown and
 sold.  If rice was not grown and not sold, then your logic would work. 
 So, your post doesn't even make sense.  The manufacturers of boards by a
 large margin puts one ethernet port on a home use board and even most
 office computers only need one port.  If one goes and looks at what is
 being manufactured and sold, they would be able to see that.  Of course,
 some people can't see it even when several people post the facts.  It
 seems some will never get the idea. 
>>> Rice is not eaten much around here, so it's not the default type of
>>> food.
>>>
>>> Besides, people buy what is being manufactured.  If all boards were
>>> manufactured with 4 ports, it wouldn't stop ppl from buying them, and if
>>> no rice was grown, it wouldn't stop ppl from eating (if sufficient
>>> quantities of other types of food were available).
>>>
>>>
>> Rice isn't eaten much around here either.  That IS NOT the point tho. 
> By way of your argumentation, it's still the default food.  You're
> saying you aren't eating it much.  I would have to conclude that you're
> living in a bubble outside of reality.
>
> Or I could simply acknowledge that you have a different default.
>
>> The point is that having two ports is not the default.  As I said
>> before, if what you claim were even remotely true, then board sellers
>> would be listing boards with two ports by huge numbers.  They are not. 
>> It is rare even.  Well under 10%, likely less than 5%.  That is FAR from
>> being a default.  Anyone claiming otherwise is delusional. 
>>
>> Given your other posts, I've come to the conclusion that you are truly
>> living in a world that is not based on reality.  You live is some bubble
>> that you

[gentoo-user] should everything compile?

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Hi,

there are some things that refuse to compile.  One of them is
openimageio.

Is this a bug, or am I missing something?  Do I need to update something
else first?


, [ emerge -a -k @preserved-rebuild ]
| [...]
| >>> Emerging (27 of 35) media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13::gentoo 

[1450/94379]
|  * openimageio-1.6.13.tar.gz SHA256 SHA512 WHIRLPOOL size ;-) ... 

 [ ok ]
| >>> Unpacking source...
| >>> Source unpacked in /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work
| >>> Preparing source in 
/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13 ...
| >>> Source prepared.
| >>> Configuring source in 
/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13 ...
| >>> Working in BUILD_DIR: 
"/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13_build"
| cmake -C 
/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13_build/gentoo_common_config.cmake
 -G Unix Makefiles -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr -DLIB_INSTALL_DIR=/usr/lib64 
-DBUILDSTATIC=OFF -DLINKSTATIC=OFF -DINSTALL_DOCS=
| OFF -DOIIO_BUILD_TESTS=OFF -DSTOP_ON_WARNING=OFF -DUSE_EXTERNAL_PUGIXML=ON 
-DUSE_FIELD3D=OFF -DUSE_FREETYPE=yes -DUSE_FFMPEG=no -DUSE_GIF=yes 
-DUSE_OCIO=no -DUSE_OPENCV=no -DUSE_OPENGL=yes -DUSE_OPENJPEG=yes 
-DUSE_OPENSSL=yes -DUSE_PYTHON
| =no -DUSE_LIBRAW=no -DUSE_QT=no -DUSE_PYTHON3=OFF -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Gentoo 
-DCMAKE_USER_MAKE_RULES_OVERRIDE=/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13_build/gentoo_rules.cmake
 -DCMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE=/var/tmp/p
| 
ortage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13_build/gentoo_toolchain.cmake
  /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13
| loading initial cache file 
/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13_build/gentoo_common_config.cmake
| -- The C compiler identification is GNU 5.3.0
| -- The CXX compiler identification is GNU 5.3.0
| -- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
| -- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -- works
| -- Detecting C compiler ABI info
| -- Detecting C compiler ABI info - done
| -- Detecting C compile features
| -- Detecting C compile features - done
| -- Check for working CXX compiler: /usr/bin/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-g++
| -- Check for working CXX compiler: /usr/bin/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-g++ -- works
| -- Detecting CXX compiler ABI info
| -- Detecting CXX compiler ABI info - done
| -- Detecting CXX compile features
| -- Detecting CXX compile features - done
| -- Project build dir = 
/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13_build
| -- CMAKE_CXX_COMPILER is /usr/bin/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-g++
| -- CMAKE_CXX_COMPILER_ID is GNU
| -- Setting Namespace to: OpenImageIO
| -- platform = linux64
| -- Boost python support not found -- will not build python components!
| -- OpenColorIO disabled
| -- No Qt4 -- skipping components that need Qt4.
| -- Field3d will not be used
| -- Not using LibRaw
| -- Found OpenSSL: /usr/lib64/libssl.so;/usr/lib64/libcrypto.so (found version 
"1.0.2j") 
| -- OpenSSL enabled
| -- OPENSSL_INCLUDES: /usr/include
| -- FFmpeg plugin will not be built
| -- Field3D plugin will not be built
| -- Raw plugin will not be build
| -- PTex plugin will not be built
| -- 
| 
|WARNING: Qt, OpenGL, or GLEW not found -- 'iv' will not be built!
| 
| -- Could not Find Nuke. Skipping build of Nuke plugins.
| -- 
| 
| Did not find 
/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13/../bmpsuite
| --   -> Will not run tests bmp
| --   -> You can find it at http://entropymine.com/jason/bmpsuite/bmpsuite.zip
| 
| -- 
| 
| Did not find 
/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13/../libtiffpic
| --   -> Will not run tests tiff-suite;tiff-depths;tiff-misc
| --   -> You can find it at http://www.remotesensing.org/libtiff/images.html
| 
| -- 
| 
| Did not find 
/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13/../openexr-images
| --   -> Will not run tests 
openexr-suite;openexr-multires;openexr-chroma;openexr-v2;perchannel
| --   -> You can find it at http://www.openexr.com/downloads.html
| 
| -- 
| 
| Did not find 
/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13/../oiio-images
| --   -> Will not run tests gif
| --   -> You can find it at Recent checkout of oiio-images
| 
| -- 
| 
| Did not find 
/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/openimageio-1.6.13/work/openimageio-1.6.13/../j2kp4files_v1_5
| --   -> Will not run tests jpeg2000
| --   -> You can find it at 
http://www.itu.int/net/ITU-T/sigdb/speimage/ImageForm-s.aspx?val=10100803
|

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Dale  writes:

> lee wrote:
>> Dale  writes:
>>
>>> lee wrote:
 Dale  writes:

> lee wrote:
>> Dale  writes:
>>
>> I didn't go look at boards I had around here.  I went to a major
>> computer supplier, newegg, and looked at what they had.  Go back and
>> read again what I did and maybe read it more carefully. 
>>
>> Might I also add, it's more than just me that has pointed out that you
>> are not correct on this.  It's a few others as well.  You ever stop to
>> think that what you observe is not the normal and certainly not the
>> default?  If what you claim was even remotely accurate, newegg would
>> have had a lot larger number of boards with two ports on it.  Thing is,
>> they didn't.  Kai pointed out that the same is true in Europe.  
>> Why would I assume that what someone else observes is a default?
>> Besides, I don't see what problem you're having with this.
>>
>>
> Then why would what you observe also be claimed to be the default?   As
> I also pointed out, it's not just what I observe, it's what I and others
> have observed as well.  So far, you are the only person claiming that
> two ports on a home user board is the default.  I have not seen anyone
> else post that you are correct.  Others have posted that you are not
> correct tho. 
>
> The problem is, you claim that having two ports is the default.  It is
> not the default.  I've said it, even researched it and explained how I
> researched it, others have also posted the same point.  Just because you
> have boards with two ports does not mean it is a default.  Given the
> research I did, it isn't even close.  Boards with two ports for a home
> user is not only not the default, it's somewhat rare.  Out of the top 72
> boards I checked, only a couple or so had two ports.  That is far from
> being the default.  That is quite rare.  Even if it was 5 boards, that
> would be under 10%.  That is hardly something to call a default.  If it
> were say 50%, then one could at least argue that the default is moving
> to having two ports.  It's just not the case. 
>
> The sooner you figure that out the better for you. 
 And eating rice is the default because so many people do it ...

 .

>>> You can claim that having two ports is the default but that isn't
>>> supported by a single fact.  As I said, the only person who thinks it is
>>> a default is you.  The default would be set by the manufacturers.  Since
>>> what is manufactured has to be sold, one good way to find out what the
>>> default is, go look at what is being sold.  When you see something that
>>> is common, like say four USB ports, then that is the default.  Another
>>> example, if most all boards have five PCI-e slots, then that is the
>>> default.  If you want six slots, seven slots or more, then you are
>>> likely going to pay extra and have fewer buying options because that is
>>> not the default. 
>>>
>>> Using your logic, no one eats rice since so much of it is grown and
>>> sold.  If rice was not grown and not sold, then your logic would work. 
>>> So, your post doesn't even make sense.  The manufacturers of boards by a
>>> large margin puts one ethernet port on a home use board and even most
>>> office computers only need one port.  If one goes and looks at what is
>>> being manufactured and sold, they would be able to see that.  Of course,
>>> some people can't see it even when several people post the facts.  It
>>> seems some will never get the idea. 
>> Rice is not eaten much around here, so it's not the default type of
>> food.
>>
>> Besides, people buy what is being manufactured.  If all boards were
>> manufactured with 4 ports, it wouldn't stop ppl from buying them, and if
>> no rice was grown, it wouldn't stop ppl from eating (if sufficient
>> quantities of other types of food were available).
>>
>>
>
> Rice isn't eaten much around here either.  That IS NOT the point tho. 

By way of your argumentation, it's still the default food.  You're
saying you aren't eating it much.  I would have to conclude that you're
living in a bubble outside of reality.

Or I could simply acknowledge that you have a different default.

> The point is that having two ports is not the default.  As I said
> before, if what you claim were even remotely true, then board sellers
> would be listing boards with two ports by huge numbers.  They are not. 
> It is rare even.  Well under 10%, likely less than 5%.  That is FAR from
> being a default.  Anyone claiming otherwise is delusional. 
>
> Given your other posts, I've come to the conclusion that you are truly
> living in a world that is not based on reality.  You live is some bubble
> that you have created where what you think is the only option.  You,
> even when shown facts, can not accept anything

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Tom H  writes:

> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 9:07 PM, lee  wrote:
>> Tom H  writes:
>>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey  wrote:

 It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network
 names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than
 once when multiple network cards are detected in a different order.
>>>
From Kay Sievers in [1]:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Btw, predictable means it will not change between reboots, that names
>>> will not depend on enumeration order within the same setup. It does
>>> not mean or promise, that added kernel/driver/firmware features will
>>> not result in different names. That is expected behavior.
>>> 
>>>
>>> [1] 
>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-October/034614.html
>>
>> So the names will not change when rebooting and are to be expected to
>> possibly change at any time.
>>
>> How is that more reliable?
>
> It's more reliable than using the kernel's names because the names
> won't change UNLESS there's kernel/driver/firmware change for that
> NIC. I doubt that these changes occur that often. Perhaps someone else
> knows.

What happens more often:  That a network card is replaced with a
different one or that the software changes?

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Rich Freeman  writes:

> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:52 PM, lee  wrote:
>>
>> I didn't see portage or anything else give me any instructions or
>> warnings about this.  The names just suddenly changed, and that screwed
>> things up.
>>
>
> https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2013-03-29-udev-upgrade.html
>
> This shows up in eselect news list (and so on), and portage will tell

I never use that because I find it very awkward.  Why doesn't portage
just send me the news by email?

> you when you have unread news items.  Note that it only shows up if
> you have 
> Generally you want to read those BEFORE you go installing packages,
> since it may pertain to a package you're about to update.

Updating usually affects over 200 packages.  What's a good way to read
the news in advance?


> The original news item was less detailed, and IMO probably a bit
> easier to read.  Additional stuff was added to it later from the looks
> of it.  It isn't hard to read per-se, but there is a lot more going on
> in it.
>
> If you want to disable predictable network names then that is covered in #4.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread lee 
Tom H  writes:

> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:57 PM, lee  wrote:
>> Tom H  writes:
>
>
>>> [1] There's no need to learn/use the udev rules syntax. I use the
>>> following in "/etc/systemd/network/" on a Debian 8 system with
>>> sysvinit-as-pid1:
>>>
>>> [Match]
>>> MACAddress=can't_be_bothered_to_look_it_up
>>> [Link]
>>> Name=en0
>>
>> Thanks!
>
> You're welcome.
>
>
>> What happens when you replace the card with another one that has a
>> different MAC? Shouldn't an assignment like this rather go by the
>> unrecognisable name? I'd find that more consistent.
>
> AFAIK, you have three possibilities.
>
> 1) If you're renaming a NIC via its MAC address, you have to edit the
> config file thatlinks the NIC's names and its MAC address.
>
> 2) If you're using udev's predictable names, the NIC'll have the same
> (more or less complex) name if you use the same slot.
>
> 3) If you're using the kernel names, you have no guarantee that ethX
> will be assigned to the same NIC at every bot.

So there's no good option because names may change unless you make and
maintain an assignment.  I wonder why that isn't the default ...

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

2016-12-26 Thread Michael Mol 
On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 7:12:14 PM EST Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 20/12/2016 19:04, Tanstaafl wrote:
> > On 12/19/2016 1:15 PM, lee  wrote:
> >> "Walter Dnes"  writes:
> >>> Similarly, the vast majority of home users have a machine with one
> >>> ethernet port, and in the past it's always been eth0.
> >> 
> >> Since 10 years or so, the default is two ports.
> > 
> > Not sure where you buy your machines, but that is simply wrong. The vast
> > majority of *home* users machines are single port machines.
> 
> and every rack server I've bought or worked on in the last 10 years has
> been quad-nic

My DL160s have 2x1GbE NICs each and a 1GbE NIC for OOB access, while my DL360s 
have 4x1GbE NICs and the single for OOB access. My old BL460cs had 2x1GbE 
connectivity.

But as far as home hardware, most pre-assembled home desktops I've seen any 
given year since 1998or so, have come with a single Ethernet port. The 
motherboards available for self-assembled PCs have usually had 2x1GbE since 
roughly 2005, IIRC.

So, enthusiast systems (who else builds their own?) will usually have a pair 
of Ethernet ports, while the cheap desktop systems will usually only have a 
single port.

Most casual user home desktop systems, IME, have been getting replaced with 
laptops and tablets, though, so you could argue that the home desktops that 
remain, over time, have tended more and more to be the self-assembled or 
enthusiast-built systems, and thus you tend to see desktop systems with 
multiple Ethernet ports more than with singles.

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