Re: [gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

2022-09-10 Thread Jack

On 2022.09.10 13:56, David Haller wrote:

Hello,

On Sat, 10 Sep 2022, Jack wrote:
>I now get this error trying to emerge two different packages:  
libofx-0.10.7
>and gnupg (both 2.2.39 and 2.3.6).  It might also be the same  
problem for a

>few bugs on b.g.o found by searching on "cannot create exectuables."
>
>The relevant lines from build.log are
>
>checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc... x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
>checking whether the C compiler works... no
>configure: error: in
>`/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':
>configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
>See `config.log' for more details
>
>and from config.log:
>
>configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -V >&5
>x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option '-V'
>x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
>compilation terminated.
>configure:2952: $? = 1
>configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -qversion >&5
>x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option  
'-qversion';

>did you mean '--version'?
>x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
>compilation terminated.
>configure:2952: $? = 1

These tests are normal fails with gcc, they are version checks for
other compilers.

>configure:2972: checking whether the C compiler works
>configure:2994: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -march=native -O2 -pipe -og  
-ggdb 

>-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed conftest.c  >&5
>configure:2998: $? = 0
>configure:3036: result: no
>configure: failed program was:
[..boilerplate..]
>configure:3041: error: in
>`/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':
>configure:3043: error: C compiler cannot create executables
>See `config.log' for more details
>
>The thing I find curious is that it appears to me that the output of  
the test
>compile is a file called "g" which I don't recall ever seeing, and  
so I
>wonder if the problem is that something has changed with gcc  
defaults and

>configure does not yet recognize that change.  I also don't know the 
>significance of the two "fatal error: no input files".
>
>The fact that this happens with two unrelated packages suggests that  
it's 
>not specific to either of them, but something in my system or  
configuration.


And it's a standard autoconf macro, namely AC_PROG_CC that results in
the error and the stuff before that is also standard. And as no
autoreconf is called, autotools versions should not matter.

>Any thoughts or suggestions?

I use gcc 11.3.0 here as well, and have no problem. Check for the
variables CC, CFLAGS, CPPFLAGS, LDFLAGS and LIBS in
/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/temp/environment.

Somehow, that '-og' must have crept in there.

David - thank you, thank you, thank you.

No wonder my recent debugging wasn't doing what I expected.  That stray  
"-og" was supposed to be "-Og" (upper instead of lower case) and it is  
in /etc/portage/env/debug.conf, which is referenced in  
/etc/portage/package.env for those packages I wish to compile with  
various debugging related compiler settings, as well as not deleting  
the build dir, even on success.


It shows what a fresh pair of eyes can do.  When looking at the various  
error related files, I really just saw -Og, and when you pointed that  
out, my first thought was why any debugging setting would possible  
cause this type of failure.  Of course in hindsight, it now all makes  
sense.


Thanks again to the list for all sorts of ongoing assistance.

Jack



Re: [gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

2022-09-10 Thread Dale
Jack wrote:
> On 9/10/22 14:49, Dale wrote:
>> Jack wrote:
>>> I now get this error trying to emerge two different packages:
>>> libofx-0.10.7 and gnupg (both 2.2.39 and 2.3.6).  It might also be the
>>> same problem for a few bugs on b.g.o found by searching on "cannot
>>> create exectuables."
>>>
>>> The relevant lines from build.log are
>>>
>>> checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc... x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
>>> checking whether the C compiler works... no
>>> configure: error: in
>>> `/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':
>>> configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
>>> See `config.log' for more details
>>>
>>> and from config.log:
>>>
>>> Thread model: posix
>>> Supported LTO compression algorithms: zlib
>>> gcc version 11.3.0 (Gentoo 11.3.0 p4)
>>> configure:2952: $? = 0
>>> configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -V >&5
>>> x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option '-V'
>>> x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
>>> compilation terminated.
>>> configure:2952: $? = 1
>>> configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -qversion >&5
>>> x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option
>>> '-qversion'; did you mean '--version'?
>>> x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
>>> compilation terminated.
>>> configure:2952: $? = 1
>>> configure:2972: checking whether the C compiler works
>>> configure:2994: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -march=native -O2 -pipe -og
>>> -ggdb  -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed conftest.c  >&5
>>> configure:2998: $? = 0
>>> configure:3036: result: no
>>> configure: failed program was:
>>> | /* confdefs.h */
>>> | #define PACKAGE_NAME "libofx"
>>> | #define PACKAGE_TARNAME "libofx"
>>> | #define PACKAGE_VERSION "0.10.7"
>>> | #define PACKAGE_STRING "libofx 0.10.7"
>>> | #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT ""
>>> | #define PACKAGE_URL ""
>>> | /* end confdefs.h.  */
>>> |
>>> | int
>>> | main ()
>>> | {
>>> |
>>> |   ;
>>> |   return 0;
>>> | }
>>> configure:3041: error: in
>>> `/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':
>>> configure:3043: error: C compiler cannot create executables
>>> See `config.log' for more details
>>>
>>> The thing I find curious is that it appears to me that the output of
>>> the test compile is a file called "g" which I don't recall ever
>>> seeing, and so I wonder if the problem is that something has changed
>>> with gcc defaults and configure does not yet recognize that change.  I
>>> also don't know the  significance of the two "fatal error: no input
>>> files".
>>>
>>> The fact that this happens with two unrelated packages suggests that
>>> it's  not specific to either of them, but something in my system or
>>> configuration.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts or suggestions?
>>>
>>> Jack
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I ran into this ages ago.  I think the fix was to reset which compiler
>> it is set to use.  I used to keep two installed, in case one would fail
>> or some package couldn't build with a newer version yet.  If I recall
>> correctly, I would list the available options with gcc-config -l and
>> then if two are available, set to older one and then change back or if
>> only one is installed, just set it to the one you have.  It's been a
>> good while and it could be that the cause of the problem has changed but
>> I don't think it will hurt anything to try this.  I think some settings
>> gets messed up and resetting it fixes it.
>>
>> Hope that helps.  If not, clueless.  :/
>
> Thanks Dale, but I only have one version of gcc installed and both
> gcc-config and binutils-config show only one option.
>
> I do believe that David Haller pegged the problem, and I'll respond to
> his post after confirming.
>
> Jack
>
>
>


If your other option fails, just gcc-config 1 and see if it helps.  If
you have only one installed, it still resets when you do it.  This is
what it looks like on mine just now. 


root@fireball / # gcc-config -l
 [1] x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-11.3.0 *
root@fireball / # gcc-config 1
 * Switching native-compiler to x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-11.3.0 ...
 * Backing up '//usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/11.3.0/libgcc_s.so.1'
to '/lib64 
[ ok ]
root@fireball / #

Just another option.  May help, may not.  :-D  I meant to include before
where I did it but forgot.  I remembered this time.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-) 



Re: [gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

2022-09-10 Thread Jack

On 9/10/22 14:49, Dale wrote:

Jack wrote:

I now get this error trying to emerge two different packages:
libofx-0.10.7 and gnupg (both 2.2.39 and 2.3.6).  It might also be the
same problem for a few bugs on b.g.o found by searching on "cannot
create exectuables."

The relevant lines from build.log are

checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc... x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
checking whether the C compiler works... no
configure: error: in
`/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':
configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
See `config.log' for more details

and from config.log:

Thread model: posix
Supported LTO compression algorithms: zlib
gcc version 11.3.0 (Gentoo 11.3.0 p4)
configure:2952: $? = 0
configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -V >&5
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option '-V'
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
compilation terminated.
configure:2952: $? = 1
configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -qversion >&5
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option
'-qversion'; did you mean '--version'?
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
compilation terminated.
configure:2952: $? = 1
configure:2972: checking whether the C compiler works
configure:2994: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -march=native -O2 -pipe -og
-ggdb  -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed conftest.c  >&5
configure:2998: $? = 0
configure:3036: result: no
configure: failed program was:
| /* confdefs.h */
| #define PACKAGE_NAME "libofx"
| #define PACKAGE_TARNAME "libofx"
| #define PACKAGE_VERSION "0.10.7"
| #define PACKAGE_STRING "libofx 0.10.7"
| #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT ""
| #define PACKAGE_URL ""
| /* end confdefs.h.  */
|
| int
| main ()
| {
|
|   ;
|   return 0;
| }
configure:3041: error: in
`/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':
configure:3043: error: C compiler cannot create executables
See `config.log' for more details

The thing I find curious is that it appears to me that the output of
the test compile is a file called "g" which I don't recall ever
seeing, and so I wonder if the problem is that something has changed
with gcc defaults and configure does not yet recognize that change.  I
also don't know the  significance of the two "fatal error: no input
files".

The fact that this happens with two unrelated packages suggests that
it's  not specific to either of them, but something in my system or
configuration.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Jack





I ran into this ages ago.  I think the fix was to reset which compiler
it is set to use.  I used to keep two installed, in case one would fail
or some package couldn't build with a newer version yet.  If I recall
correctly, I would list the available options with gcc-config -l and
then if two are available, set to older one and then change back or if
only one is installed, just set it to the one you have.  It's been a
good while and it could be that the cause of the problem has changed but
I don't think it will hurt anything to try this.  I think some settings
gets messed up and resetting it fixes it.

Hope that helps.  If not, clueless.  :/


Thanks Dale, but I only have one version of gcc installed and both 
gcc-config and binutils-config show only one option.


I do believe that David Haller pegged the problem, and I'll respond to 
his post after confirming.


Jack




Re: [gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

2022-09-10 Thread Dale
Jack wrote:
> I now get this error trying to emerge two different packages:
> libofx-0.10.7 and gnupg (both 2.2.39 and 2.3.6).  It might also be the
> same problem for a few bugs on b.g.o found by searching on "cannot
> create exectuables."
>
> The relevant lines from build.log are
>
> checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc... x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
> checking whether the C compiler works... no
> configure: error: in
> `/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':
> configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
> See `config.log' for more details
>
> and from config.log:
>
> Thread model: posix
> Supported LTO compression algorithms: zlib
> gcc version 11.3.0 (Gentoo 11.3.0 p4)
> configure:2952: $? = 0
> configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -V >&5
> x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option '-V'
> x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
> compilation terminated.
> configure:2952: $? = 1
> configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -qversion >&5
> x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option
> '-qversion'; did you mean '--version'?
> x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
> compilation terminated.
> configure:2952: $? = 1
> configure:2972: checking whether the C compiler works
> configure:2994: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -march=native -O2 -pipe -og
> -ggdb  -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed conftest.c  >&5
> configure:2998: $? = 0
> configure:3036: result: no
> configure: failed program was:
> | /* confdefs.h */
> | #define PACKAGE_NAME "libofx"
> | #define PACKAGE_TARNAME "libofx"
> | #define PACKAGE_VERSION "0.10.7"
> | #define PACKAGE_STRING "libofx 0.10.7"
> | #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT ""
> | #define PACKAGE_URL ""
> | /* end confdefs.h.  */
> |
> | int
> | main ()
> | {
> |
> |   ;
> |   return 0;
> | }
> configure:3041: error: in
> `/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':
> configure:3043: error: C compiler cannot create executables
> See `config.log' for more details
>
> The thing I find curious is that it appears to me that the output of
> the test compile is a file called "g" which I don't recall ever
> seeing, and so I wonder if the problem is that something has changed
> with gcc defaults and configure does not yet recognize that change.  I
> also don't know the  significance of the two "fatal error: no input
> files".
>
> The fact that this happens with two unrelated packages suggests that
> it's  not specific to either of them, but something in my system or
> configuration.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions?
>
> Jack
>
>
>


I ran into this ages ago.  I think the fix was to reset which compiler
it is set to use.  I used to keep two installed, in case one would fail
or some package couldn't build with a newer version yet.  If I recall
correctly, I would list the available options with gcc-config -l and
then if two are available, set to older one and then change back or if
only one is installed, just set it to the one you have.  It's been a
good while and it could be that the cause of the problem has changed but
I don't think it will hurt anything to try this.  I think some settings
gets messed up and resetting it fixes it. 

Hope that helps.  If not, clueless.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 



Re: [gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

2022-09-10 Thread David Haller
Hello,

On Sat, 10 Sep 2022, Jack wrote:
>I now get this error trying to emerge two different packages: libofx-0.10.7
>and gnupg (both 2.2.39 and 2.3.6).  It might also be the same problem for a
>few bugs on b.g.o found by searching on "cannot create exectuables."
>
>The relevant lines from build.log are
>
>checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc... x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
>checking whether the C compiler works... no
>configure: error: in
>`/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':
>configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
>See `config.log' for more details
>
>and from config.log:
>
>configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -V >&5
>x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option '-V'
>x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
>compilation terminated.
>configure:2952: $? = 1
>configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -qversion >&5
>x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option '-qversion';
>did you mean '--version'?
>x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
>compilation terminated.
>configure:2952: $? = 1

These tests are normal fails with gcc, they are version checks for
other compilers.

>configure:2972: checking whether the C compiler works
>configure:2994: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -march=native -O2 -pipe -og -ggdb 
>-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed conftest.c  >&5
>configure:2998: $? = 0
>configure:3036: result: no
>configure: failed program was:
[..boilerplate..]
>configure:3041: error: in
>`/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':
>configure:3043: error: C compiler cannot create executables
>See `config.log' for more details
>
>The thing I find curious is that it appears to me that the output of the test
>compile is a file called "g" which I don't recall ever seeing, and so I
>wonder if the problem is that something has changed with gcc defaults and
>configure does not yet recognize that change.  I also don't know the 
>significance of the two "fatal error: no input files".
>
>The fact that this happens with two unrelated packages suggests that it's 
>not specific to either of them, but something in my system or configuration.

And it's a standard autoconf macro, namely AC_PROG_CC that results in
the error and the stuff before that is also standard. And as no
autoreconf is called, autotools versions should not matter.

>Any thoughts or suggestions?

I use gcc 11.3.0 here as well, and have no problem. Check for the
variables CC, CFLAGS, CPPFLAGS, LDFLAGS and LIBS in
/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/temp/environment.

Somehow, that '-og' must have crept in there.

HTH,
-dnh

-- 
printk("%s: Boo!\n", dev->name);
linux-2.6.19/drivers/net/depca.c



Re: [gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

2022-09-10 Thread Jack

On 9/10/22 11:42, Arve Barsnes wrote:

On Sat, 10 Sept 2022 at 17:28, Jack  wrote:

Any thoughts or suggestions?

I feel like this is an error that tends to pop up when your toolchain
is broken. Are you able to re-emerge gcc?


gcc11.3.0 re-emerge with no errors, bug the problem remains.

I note that in configure, line 2977 is 'ac_files="a.out conftest.exe 
conftest a.exe a_out.exe b.out conftest.*"' but the test compilation 
creates the output file "g" so configure seems to think that the compile 
didn't produce any executable.  Using the same compile line but 
switching x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc to gcc produces a.out.  Further 
searching makes me wonder if the configure itself for these two packages 
is just based on some starting point too old for gcc11, but  that line 
is the same in every package I currently still have present in 
/var/tmp/portage.


This leaves me wondering why gcc and x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc use 
different default output file names.


Re: [gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

2022-09-10 Thread Jack

On 9/10/22 11:42, Arve Barsnes wrote:

On Sat, 10 Sept 2022 at 17:28, Jack  wrote:

Any thoughts or suggestions?

I feel like this is an error that tends to pop up when your toolchain
is broken. Are you able to re-emerge gcc?


Reasonable thought.  I've just kicked of a re-emerge of gcc. I'll post 
back when it's done - likely an hour or two.


What's odd is that I've done plenty of other successful emerges since I 
first got this error, although I certainly realize that different 
packages use very different subsets of the total tool chain.





Re: [gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

2022-09-10 Thread Arve Barsnes
On Sat, 10 Sept 2022 at 17:28, Jack  wrote:
> Any thoughts or suggestions?

I feel like this is an error that tends to pop up when your toolchain
is broken. Are you able to re-emerge gcc?

Regards,
Arve



[gentoo-user] Re: Getting printer working, the road of Pain.

2022-09-10 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2022-09-10, Wols Lists  wrote:
> On 10/09/2022 01:18, Paul Colquhoun wrote:
>> 2) Remind us again why you still try to run Gentoo when you obviously 
>> dislike it.
>
> snark :-)
>
> A couple of things to remember:
>
> Gentoo IS a pita to install and run compared to most other distros -

Until you want to do something even vaguely unique or out-of-the
ordinary. Then most other distros are a PITA compared to Gentoo.

If all you want to do is run a web browser, then Gentoo is almost
definitely the wrong choice.

--
Grant




[gentoo-user] C compiler cannot create executables

2022-09-10 Thread Jack
I now get this error trying to emerge two different packages: 
libofx-0.10.7 and gnupg (both 2.2.39 and 2.3.6).  It might also be the 
same problem for a few bugs on b.g.o found by searching on "cannot 
create exectuables."


The relevant lines from build.log are

checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc... x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
checking whether the C compiler works... no
configure: error: in 
`/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':

configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
See `config.log' for more details

and from config.log:

Thread model: posix
Supported LTO compression algorithms: zlib
gcc version 11.3.0 (Gentoo 11.3.0 p4)
configure:2952: $? = 0
configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -V >&5
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option '-V'
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
compilation terminated.
configure:2952: $? = 1
configure:2941: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -qversion >&5
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: error: unrecognized command-line option 
'-qversion'; did you mean '--version'?

x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: fatal error: no input files
compilation terminated.
configure:2952: $? = 1
configure:2972: checking whether the C compiler works
configure:2994: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -march=native -O2 -pipe -og 
-ggdb  -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed conftest.c  >&5

configure:2998: $? = 0
configure:3036: result: no
configure: failed program was:
| /* confdefs.h */
| #define PACKAGE_NAME "libofx"
| #define PACKAGE_TARNAME "libofx"
| #define PACKAGE_VERSION "0.10.7"
| #define PACKAGE_STRING "libofx 0.10.7"
| #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT ""
| #define PACKAGE_URL ""
| /* end confdefs.h.  */
|
| int
| main ()
| {
|
|   ;
|   return 0;
| }
configure:3041: error: in 
`/var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/libofx-0.10.7/work/libofx-0.10.7':

configure:3043: error: C compiler cannot create executables
See `config.log' for more details

The thing I find curious is that it appears to me that the output of the 
test compile is a file called "g" which I don't recall ever seeing, and 
so I wonder if the problem is that something has changed with gcc 
defaults and configure does not yet recognize that change.  I also don't 
know the  significance of the two "fatal error: no input files".


The fact that this happens with two unrelated packages suggests that 
it's  not specific to either of them, but something in my system or 
configuration.


Any thoughts or suggestions?

Jack




Re: [gentoo-user] Getting printer working, the road of Pain.

2022-09-10 Thread karl
Wol:
...
> A couple of things to remember:
> 
> Gentoo IS a pita to install and run compared to most other distros - 
...

That really depends. Other distros might not have what you want or
they force upon you desicions you don't like. Just beeing easy to
install and running something irrelevant doesn't mean much if they
don't deliver what you want.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar




Re: [gentoo-user] Getting printer working, the road of Pain.

2022-09-10 Thread Wols Lists

On 10/09/2022 01:18, Paul Colquhoun wrote:
2) Remind us again why you still try to run Gentoo when you obviously 
dislike it.


snark :-)

A couple of things to remember:

Gentoo IS a pita to install and run compared to most other distros - 
I've had a brand new laptop lying around for 6 months which has been an 
absolute pain and is still not working ...


RTFM is NOT an acceptable answer - half the time the documentation is 
worse than the program, the other half of the time you can't find it and 
the stuff on the web is out-or-date, irrelevant, or some other rabbit 
hole ...


IBM used to have a "black team", apparently. Anybody who was just plain 
useless at their job, or could never get things to work, or just took 
pleasure in breaking things, was put on this team. Telling developers 
their work was being handed over to this lot for testing was considered 
pure torture. I guess Alan belongs on that team - at least if the devs 
are reading it helps gentoo get more robust :-)


Cheers,
Wol