Re: [gentoo-user] frei0r-plugins opencv ffmpeg Error: circular dependencies
Hi Dale, CFLAGS can't have an effect on dependencies. It is passed to make; emerge doesn't use it. Emerge does use CPU_FLAGS_*, but I don't know if those flags are used for any conditional dependencies. Regards, Waldo On Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 07:07 Dale wrote: > Dale wrote: > > Howdy, > > > > I'm installing Gentoo on that old Dell Inspiron still. I'm getting > > close. I'm now at this. > > > > > > * Error: circular dependencies: > > > > (media-plugins/frei0r-plugins-1.8.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for > > merge) depends on > > (media-libs/opencv-4.9.0:0/4.9.0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) > > (buildtime_slot_op) > > (media-video/ffmpeg-6.1.1-r5:0/58.60.60::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for > > merge) (buildtime_slot_op) > >(media-plugins/frei0r-plugins-1.8.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for > > merge) (buildtime) > > > > It might be possible to break this cycle > > by applying any of the following changes: > > - media-video/ffmpeg-6.1.1-r5 (Change USE: -frei0r) > > - media-plugins/frei0r-plugins-1.8.0 (Change USE: -facedetect) > > - media-libs/opencv-4.9.0 (Change USE: -ffmpeg) > > > > Note that this change can be reverted, once the package has been > installed. > > NAS2 ~ # > > > > > > Earlier, I added those USE flags so that it could continue on with the > > install. I figured it was like that harfbuzz and something else thing. > > Now that everything else is done, I want to go back to the default USE > > flags, like it said I could. Thing is, when I remove the ones it wants > > above, it still complains. It either fails to build or spits out > > something like above. > > > > Has anyone doing a recent new install ran into this and know how to get > > around it? I've tried different options but they either fail or tell me > > to change back to the settings it suggests above. I searched the forums > > but didn't find anything. Google didn't find anything either. I may > > have found something new. ROFL > > > > Thoughts?? > > > > Dale > > > > :-) :-) > > > Found a solution for most of it. When I did my install, I added a line > for CFLAGS but failed to comment out the other line. It seems to have > confused either emerge or that package or maybe both. Basically, it > left it empty, no setting at all. > > Now I'm left with a failure for net-dns/avahi which gives me this: > > > sed -e 's,@pkgsysconfdir\@,/etc/avahi,g' \ > -e 's,@servicedir\@,/etc/avahi/services,g' \ > -e 's,@PACKAGE_BUGREPORT\@,avahi (at) lists (dot) freedesktop > (dot) org,g' \ > -e 's,@PACKAGE_URL\@,http://avahi.org/,g' > avahi-discover.1.xml.in > avahi-discover.1.xml > sed -e 's,@pkgsysconfdir\@,/etc/avahi,g' \ > -e 's,@servicedir\@,/etc/avahi/services,g' \ > -e 's,@PACKAGE_BUGREPORT\@,avahi (at) lists (dot) freedesktop > (dot) org,g' \ > -e 's,@PACKAGE_URL\@,http://avahi.org/,g' > avahi-bookmarks.1.xml.in > avahi-bookmarks.1.xml > sed -e 's,@pkgsysconfdir\@,/etc/avahi,g' \ > -e 's,@servicedir\@,/etc/avahi/services,g' \ > -e 's,@PACKAGE_BUGREPORT\@,avahi (at) lists (dot) freedesktop > (dot) org,g' \ > -e 's,@PACKAGE_URL\@,http://avahi.org/,g' bssh.1.xml.in > > bssh.1.xml > xmltoman avahi-daemon.8.xml > avahi-daemon.8 > Can't locate XML/Parser.pm in @INC (you may need to install the > XML::Parser module) (@INC entries checked: /etc/perl > /usr/local/lib64/perl5/5.38/x86_64-linux-thread-multi > /usr/local/lib64/perl5/5.38 > /usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.38/x86_64-linux-thread-multi > /usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.38 > /usr/lib64/perl5/5.38/x86_64-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib64/perl5/5.38) > at /usr/bin/xmltoman line 22. > BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/bin/xmltoman line 22. > make[2]: *** [Makefile:861: avahi-daemon.8] Error 2 > make[2]: Leaving directory > '/var/tmp/portage/net-dns/avahi-0.8-r7/work/avahi-0.8-abi_x86_64.amd64/man' > make[1]: *** [Makefile:826: all-recursive] Error 1 > make[1]: Leaving directory > '/var/tmp/portage/net-dns/avahi-0.8-r7/work/avahi-0.8-abi_x86_64.amd64' > make: *** [Makefile:736: all] Error 2 > * ERROR: net-dns/avahi-0.8-r7::gentoo failed (compile phase): > * emake failed > > > > I'll go dig, maybe try another version or something. > > I wonder why emerge or something didn't point out basically a empty > setting for CFLAG. Odd. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > >
Re: [gentoo-user] frei0r-plugins opencv ffmpeg Error: circular dependencies
Dale wrote: > Howdy, > > I'm installing Gentoo on that old Dell Inspiron still. I'm getting > close. I'm now at this. > > > * Error: circular dependencies: > > (media-plugins/frei0r-plugins-1.8.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for > merge) depends on > (media-libs/opencv-4.9.0:0/4.9.0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) > (buildtime_slot_op) > (media-video/ffmpeg-6.1.1-r5:0/58.60.60::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for > merge) (buildtime_slot_op) > (media-plugins/frei0r-plugins-1.8.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for > merge) (buildtime) > > It might be possible to break this cycle > by applying any of the following changes: > - media-video/ffmpeg-6.1.1-r5 (Change USE: -frei0r) > - media-plugins/frei0r-plugins-1.8.0 (Change USE: -facedetect) > - media-libs/opencv-4.9.0 (Change USE: -ffmpeg) > > Note that this change can be reverted, once the package has been installed. > NAS2 ~ # > > > Earlier, I added those USE flags so that it could continue on with the > install. I figured it was like that harfbuzz and something else thing. > Now that everything else is done, I want to go back to the default USE > flags, like it said I could. Thing is, when I remove the ones it wants > above, it still complains. It either fails to build or spits out > something like above. > > Has anyone doing a recent new install ran into this and know how to get > around it? I've tried different options but they either fail or tell me > to change back to the settings it suggests above. I searched the forums > but didn't find anything. Google didn't find anything either. I may > have found something new. ROFL > > Thoughts?? > > Dale > > :-) :-) Found a solution for most of it. When I did my install, I added a line for CFLAGS but failed to comment out the other line. It seems to have confused either emerge or that package or maybe both. Basically, it left it empty, no setting at all. Now I'm left with a failure for net-dns/avahi which gives me this: sed -e 's,@pkgsysconfdir\@,/etc/avahi,g' \ -e 's,@servicedir\@,/etc/avahi/services,g' \ -e 's,@PACKAGE_BUGREPORT\@,avahi (at) lists (dot) freedesktop (dot) org,g' \ -e 's,@PACKAGE_URL\@,http://avahi.org/,g' avahi-discover.1.xml.in > avahi-discover.1.xml sed -e 's,@pkgsysconfdir\@,/etc/avahi,g' \ -e 's,@servicedir\@,/etc/avahi/services,g' \ -e 's,@PACKAGE_BUGREPORT\@,avahi (at) lists (dot) freedesktop (dot) org,g' \ -e 's,@PACKAGE_URL\@,http://avahi.org/,g' avahi-bookmarks.1.xml.in > avahi-bookmarks.1.xml sed -e 's,@pkgsysconfdir\@,/etc/avahi,g' \ -e 's,@servicedir\@,/etc/avahi/services,g' \ -e 's,@PACKAGE_BUGREPORT\@,avahi (at) lists (dot) freedesktop (dot) org,g' \ -e 's,@PACKAGE_URL\@,http://avahi.org/,g' bssh.1.xml.in > bssh.1.xml xmltoman avahi-daemon.8.xml > avahi-daemon.8 Can't locate XML/Parser.pm in @INC (you may need to install the XML::Parser module) (@INC entries checked: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib64/perl5/5.38/x86_64-linux-thread-multi /usr/local/lib64/perl5/5.38 /usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.38/x86_64-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.38 /usr/lib64/perl5/5.38/x86_64-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib64/perl5/5.38) at /usr/bin/xmltoman line 22. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/bin/xmltoman line 22. make[2]: *** [Makefile:861: avahi-daemon.8] Error 2 make[2]: Leaving directory '/var/tmp/portage/net-dns/avahi-0.8-r7/work/avahi-0.8-abi_x86_64.amd64/man' make[1]: *** [Makefile:826: all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory '/var/tmp/portage/net-dns/avahi-0.8-r7/work/avahi-0.8-abi_x86_64.amd64' make: *** [Makefile:736: all] Error 2 * ERROR: net-dns/avahi-0.8-r7::gentoo failed (compile phase): * emake failed I'll go dig, maybe try another version or something. I wonder why emerge or something didn't point out basically a empty setting for CFLAG. Odd. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] frei0r-plugins opencv ffmpeg Error: circular dependencies
Howdy, I'm installing Gentoo on that old Dell Inspiron still. I'm getting close. I'm now at this. * Error: circular dependencies: (media-plugins/frei0r-plugins-1.8.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) depends on (media-libs/opencv-4.9.0:0/4.9.0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) (buildtime_slot_op) (media-video/ffmpeg-6.1.1-r5:0/58.60.60::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) (buildtime_slot_op) (media-plugins/frei0r-plugins-1.8.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) (buildtime) It might be possible to break this cycle by applying any of the following changes: - media-video/ffmpeg-6.1.1-r5 (Change USE: -frei0r) - media-plugins/frei0r-plugins-1.8.0 (Change USE: -facedetect) - media-libs/opencv-4.9.0 (Change USE: -ffmpeg) Note that this change can be reverted, once the package has been installed. NAS2 ~ # Earlier, I added those USE flags so that it could continue on with the install. I figured it was like that harfbuzz and something else thing. Now that everything else is done, I want to go back to the default USE flags, like it said I could. Thing is, when I remove the ones it wants above, it still complains. It either fails to build or spits out something like above. Has anyone doing a recent new install ran into this and know how to get around it? I've tried different options but they either fail or tell me to change back to the settings it suggests above. I searched the forums but didn't find anything. Google didn't find anything either. I may have found something new. ROFL Thoughts?? Dale :-) :-) P. S. I'll be glad when I can put a larger CPU cooler on that old Dell. I got the side off with a wall powered fan blowing on it. ROFL With side on, dang near fry a egg on that poor old thing.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
On 28/04/2024 17:40, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2024-04-28, Grant Edwards wrote: With DOS disk lables, Grub uses empty space between the boot sector and the first partition as a location to store it's core image file. That empty space does not exist when using GPT disk label. When using a GPT disk label, Grub requires that you need to create a "BIOS Boot" or "Grub Boot" partition so that Grub has somwhere to store it's core image[1]. And it bears repeating that the bios/grub boot partition only needs to be 1 or 2MB in size, is _not_ formatted with a filesystem, and is _not_ the same as either 1) The "boot" directory where the kernel images and grubs other files are installed within a Linux filesystem. [Which you still need when booting in Legacy/BIOS mode.] or 2) The UEFI partition that's formated with a FAT filesystem and used in UEFI boot mode [which you don't need when booting in Legacy/BIOS mode.] Note that, for new installs, I generally say always create a decent sized partition for UEFI, so if you want to change you can, although it sounds like in your case it probably doesn't matter :-) Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
Dale wrote: > Michael wrote: >> On Sunday, 28 April 2024 19:39:16 BST Dale wrote: >>> Grant Edwards wrote: On 2024-04-28, Grant Edwards wrote: > With DOS disk lables, Grub uses empty space between the boot sector > and the first partition as a location to store it's core image file. > That empty space does not exist when using GPT disk label. When using > a GPT disk label, Grub requires that you need to create a "BIOS Boot" > or "Grub Boot" partition so that Grub has somwhere to store it's core > image[1]. And it bears repeating that the bios/grub boot partition only needs to be 1 or 2MB in size, is _not_ formatted with a filesystem, and is _not_ the same as either 1) The "boot" directory where the kernel images and grubs other files are installed within a Linux filesystem. [Which you still need when booting in Legacy/BIOS mode.] or 2) The UEFI partition that's formated with a FAT filesystem and used in UEFI boot mode [which you don't need when booting in Legacy/BIOS mode.] >>> I think I got a grasp on this now. Basically, partitions should be like >>> this. >>> >>> >>> First spot is the alignment thing. Usually a few MBs or so and unused. >> This is created automatically by the partitioning tool, in your case cgdisk, >> when you create the first partition on the disk and accept the default >> starting sector. >> >> >>> Grub boot partition with ef02 setting, not to be formatted. >>> >>> /boot partition for kernel and init thingy. Usually 1GB or so, enough >>> for memtest, bootable rescue image etc. >>> >>> / or root partition that is around 150GBs or so. Enough to expand a bit >>> and includes /usr and /var. >>> >>> /home rest of disk unless some needed for something else. >>> >>> >>> Do you recall when running grub-install what that command looks like? >>> Lets say the Grub partition with ef02 setting is sda1, would it be >>> grub-install /dev/sda1 or just sda and it finds the empty partition on >>> its own? >> The unformatted and empty /dev/sda1 'BIOS Boot Partition' will be found by >> GRUB when you run grub-install and it will store its core.img in there. >> >> You install GRUB's boot.img in the MBR and therefore you have to specify the >> disk, NOT a partition, e.g.: >> >> grub-install /dev/sda >> >> This command should: >> >> 1. Install GRUB's boot.img in the MBR of /dev/sda. >> 2. Install GRUB's core.img in /dev/sda1 which you created as a 'BIOS boot >> partition', type EF02. >> 3. Create directory /boot/grub to install all the grub fs drivers and files. >> >> If you have mounted /boot, all is well. If you are repairing an >> installation >> from a liveUSB you can mount the /boot partition, e.g. /mnt/gentoo/boot and >> specify this in the CLI: >> >> grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt/gentoo/boot /dev/sda >> >> NOTE: As per the link Grant helpfully posted you can create the 'BIOS boot >> partition' with cgdisk "... by setting the partition type to 0xEF02 and >> giving >> it a label of gptbios". >> >> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#BIOS_with_GPT >> > That's what I was thinking. I think I got it. I need to make notes of > this tho. Before I forget. :/ > > Thanks to all. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > One last update. I found a video. They were using gdisk but the crucial part, he got it to display the partition layout. It was like I described as for as the alignment thing, tiny partition with ef02 and then carry on as usual from there. I need to do this on a disk complete with notes, so I don't forget. My brain is going fast. One day, I'll forget how to turn the puter on. :'( I already forget what I went to the kitchen for, it's only 20 feet away. :/ Thanks again. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
Michael wrote: > On Sunday, 28 April 2024 19:39:16 BST Dale wrote: >> Grant Edwards wrote: >>> On 2024-04-28, Grant Edwards wrote: With DOS disk lables, Grub uses empty space between the boot sector and the first partition as a location to store it's core image file. That empty space does not exist when using GPT disk label. When using a GPT disk label, Grub requires that you need to create a "BIOS Boot" or "Grub Boot" partition so that Grub has somwhere to store it's core image[1]. >>> And it bears repeating that the bios/grub boot partition only needs to >>> be 1 or 2MB in size, is _not_ formatted with a filesystem, and is >>> _not_ the same as either >>> >>> 1) The "boot" directory where the kernel images and grubs other files >>> >>> are installed within a Linux filesystem. [Which you still need >>> when booting in Legacy/BIOS mode.] >>> >>> or >>> >>> 2) The UEFI partition that's formated with a FAT filesystem and used >>> >>> in UEFI boot mode [which you don't need when booting in >>> Legacy/BIOS mode.] >> I think I got a grasp on this now. Basically, partitions should be like >> this. >> >> >> First spot is the alignment thing. Usually a few MBs or so and unused. > This is created automatically by the partitioning tool, in your case cgdisk, > when you create the first partition on the disk and accept the default > starting sector. > > >> Grub boot partition with ef02 setting, not to be formatted. >> >> /boot partition for kernel and init thingy. Usually 1GB or so, enough >> for memtest, bootable rescue image etc. >> >> / or root partition that is around 150GBs or so. Enough to expand a bit >> and includes /usr and /var. >> >> /home rest of disk unless some needed for something else. >> >> >> Do you recall when running grub-install what that command looks like? >> Lets say the Grub partition with ef02 setting is sda1, would it be >> grub-install /dev/sda1 or just sda and it finds the empty partition on >> its own? > The unformatted and empty /dev/sda1 'BIOS Boot Partition' will be found by > GRUB when you run grub-install and it will store its core.img in there. > > You install GRUB's boot.img in the MBR and therefore you have to specify the > disk, NOT a partition, e.g.: > > grub-install /dev/sda > > This command should: > > 1. Install GRUB's boot.img in the MBR of /dev/sda. > 2. Install GRUB's core.img in /dev/sda1 which you created as a 'BIOS boot > partition', type EF02. > 3. Create directory /boot/grub to install all the grub fs drivers and files. > > If you have mounted /boot, all is well. If you are repairing an installation > from a liveUSB you can mount the /boot partition, e.g. /mnt/gentoo/boot and > specify this in the CLI: > > grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt/gentoo/boot /dev/sda > > NOTE: As per the link Grant helpfully posted you can create the 'BIOS boot > partition' with cgdisk "... by setting the partition type to 0xEF02 and > giving > it a label of gptbios". > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#BIOS_with_GPT > That's what I was thinking. I think I got it. I need to make notes of this tho. Before I forget. :/ Thanks to all. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
On Sunday, 28 April 2024 19:39:16 BST Dale wrote: > Grant Edwards wrote: > > On 2024-04-28, Grant Edwards wrote: > >> With DOS disk lables, Grub uses empty space between the boot sector > >> and the first partition as a location to store it's core image file. > >> That empty space does not exist when using GPT disk label. When using > >> a GPT disk label, Grub requires that you need to create a "BIOS Boot" > >> or "Grub Boot" partition so that Grub has somwhere to store it's core > >> image[1]. > > > > And it bears repeating that the bios/grub boot partition only needs to > > be 1 or 2MB in size, is _not_ formatted with a filesystem, and is > > _not_ the same as either > > > > 1) The "boot" directory where the kernel images and grubs other files > > > > are installed within a Linux filesystem. [Which you still need > > when booting in Legacy/BIOS mode.] > > > > or > > > > 2) The UEFI partition that's formated with a FAT filesystem and used > > > > in UEFI boot mode [which you don't need when booting in > > Legacy/BIOS mode.] > > I think I got a grasp on this now. Basically, partitions should be like > this. > > > First spot is the alignment thing. Usually a few MBs or so and unused. This is created automatically by the partitioning tool, in your case cgdisk, when you create the first partition on the disk and accept the default starting sector. > Grub boot partition with ef02 setting, not to be formatted. > > /boot partition for kernel and init thingy. Usually 1GB or so, enough > for memtest, bootable rescue image etc. > > / or root partition that is around 150GBs or so. Enough to expand a bit > and includes /usr and /var. > > /home rest of disk unless some needed for something else. > > > Do you recall when running grub-install what that command looks like? > Lets say the Grub partition with ef02 setting is sda1, would it be > grub-install /dev/sda1 or just sda and it finds the empty partition on > its own? The unformatted and empty /dev/sda1 'BIOS Boot Partition' will be found by GRUB when you run grub-install and it will store its core.img in there. You install GRUB's boot.img in the MBR and therefore you have to specify the disk, NOT a partition, e.g.: grub-install /dev/sda This command should: 1. Install GRUB's boot.img in the MBR of /dev/sda. 2. Install GRUB's core.img in /dev/sda1 which you created as a 'BIOS boot partition', type EF02. 3. Create directory /boot/grub to install all the grub fs drivers and files. If you have mounted /boot, all is well. If you are repairing an installation from a liveUSB you can mount the /boot partition, e.g. /mnt/gentoo/boot and specify this in the CLI: grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt/gentoo/boot /dev/sda NOTE: As per the link Grant helpfully posted you can create the 'BIOS boot partition' with cgdisk "... by setting the partition type to 0xEF02 and giving it a label of gptbios". https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#BIOS_with_GPT signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-04-28, Grant Edwards wrote: > >> With DOS disk lables, Grub uses empty space between the boot sector >> and the first partition as a location to store it's core image file. >> That empty space does not exist when using GPT disk label. When using >> a GPT disk label, Grub requires that you need to create a "BIOS Boot" >> or "Grub Boot" partition so that Grub has somwhere to store it's core >> image[1]. > And it bears repeating that the bios/grub boot partition only needs to > be 1 or 2MB in size, is _not_ formatted with a filesystem, and is > _not_ the same as either > > 1) The "boot" directory where the kernel images and grubs other files > are installed within a Linux filesystem. [Which you still need > when booting in Legacy/BIOS mode.] > > or > > 2) The UEFI partition that's formated with a FAT filesystem and used > in UEFI boot mode [which you don't need when booting in > Legacy/BIOS mode.] > I think I got a grasp on this now. Basically, partitions should be like this. First spot is the alignment thing. Usually a few MBs or so and unused. Grub boot partition with ef02 setting, not to be formatted. /boot partition for kernel and init thingy. Usually 1GB or so, enough for memtest, bootable rescue image etc. / or root partition that is around 150GBs or so. Enough to expand a bit and includes /usr and /var. /home rest of disk unless some needed for something else. Do you recall when running grub-install what that command looks like? Lets say the Grub partition with ef02 setting is sda1, would it be grub-install /dev/sda1 or just sda and it finds the empty partition on its own? That's the only thing I'm not real sure of at this point. I think it is sda. Maybe. ;-) Or is all that above just plain wrong? O-o Dale :-) :-) P. S. Been on tractor with a box blade. Did three very long driveways and a couple short ones. My neighbors have smooth driveways again. :-D
[gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
On 2024-04-28, Grant Edwards wrote: > With DOS disk lables, Grub uses empty space between the boot sector > and the first partition as a location to store it's core image file. > That empty space does not exist when using GPT disk label. When using > a GPT disk label, Grub requires that you need to create a "BIOS Boot" > or "Grub Boot" partition so that Grub has somwhere to store it's core > image[1]. And it bears repeating that the bios/grub boot partition only needs to be 1 or 2MB in size, is _not_ formatted with a filesystem, and is _not_ the same as either 1) The "boot" directory where the kernel images and grubs other files are installed within a Linux filesystem. [Which you still need when booting in Legacy/BIOS mode.] or 2) The UEFI partition that's formated with a FAT filesystem and used in UEFI boot mode [which you don't need when booting in Legacy/BIOS mode.]
[gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
On 2024-04-27, Michael wrote: > On Saturday, 27 April 2024 17:53:25 BST Dale wrote: >> Howdy, >> >> I'm installing Gentoo on another old box. To be consistent I like >> to use cgdisk, GPT I think it is called, to partition all my >> drives, regardless of size. > > GPT is the partition table structure, which is more advanced than > the old DOS partition table structure. > >> Thing is, Grub works differently with GPT than it does with the old >> DOS or whatever it is called, like fdisk does in the old days. > > GRUB works the same, but the disk/partition table structure is different. No, grub doesn't work the with GPT disk labels as it did with DOS disk labels. With DOS disk lables, Grub uses empty space between the boot sector and the first partition as a location to store it's core image file. That empty space does not exist when using GPT disk label. When using a GPT disk label, Grub requires that you need to create a "BIOS Boot" or "Grub Boot" partition so that Grub has somwhere to store it's core image[1]. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#BIOS_with_GPT https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/GRUB#BIOS_systems [1] There is an alternative installation method where Grub will record the disk block numbers occupied by the core image files as they reside in the normal filesystem. That's extra work to maintain and might not be reliable for some filesystem types, so it's not recommended.
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
Michael wrote: > On Sunday, 28 April 2024 13:57:23 BST Dale wrote: > >> I just got to figure out how to make it so I can login as root via ssh >> again. I set PermitRootLogin to yes in ssh config but still refuses. I >> did it on my NAS box but can't recall what else I had to do. > Just checking the obvious, did you start sshd? > > Is a port open and listening for ssh connections (use nc, telnet, nmap to > find > out). > > Will it let you login as a plain user, then 'su' to run as root? > > Make sure the plain user is in the wheel group. Right now, I can login as a user then su to root, and password. I just can't login as root directly. I use Dolphin and the fish thingy to access config files etc so I can use Kwrite to edit files etc. Thing is, I have to login as root for some files. No way to su to root with Dolphin, that I know of anyway. I'm pretty sure I set this up on the old NAS box. My searches shows the PermitRootLogin set to yes should do it but I guess I missed something. Any ideas? I did search old threads but only found the option above, mentioned by Neil I think. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
On Sunday, 28 April 2024 13:57:23 BST Dale wrote: > I just got to figure out how to make it so I can login as root via ssh > again. I set PermitRootLogin to yes in ssh config but still refuses. I > did it on my NAS box but can't recall what else I had to do. Just checking the obvious, did you start sshd? Is a port open and listening for ssh connections (use nc, telnet, nmap to find out). Will it let you login as a plain user, then 'su' to run as root? Make sure the plain user is in the wheel group. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
Mickaël Bucas wrote: > Hi > > Le sam. 27 avr. 2024 à 18:53, Dale a écrit : >> Howdy, >> >> I'm installing Gentoo on another old box. > I was wondering how old this box could be and if it had a BIOS with > UEFI and GPT. > > I didn't find a precise date for BIOS, but Wikipedia[1] shows that the > first version of Windows for x64 that can read and write GPT was > published on 2005-04-25. To boot with UEFI, a later version was > published on 2006-07-22. > I think this means most BIOSes were compatible to various degrees at this > time. > > So if your box is less than 20 years old, it should be OK ! > I don't remember how powerful the boxes were at this time, but they > still had floppy disk drives :) > >> Thanks to anyone who has a link, some notes or something. :-D >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > Good luck > > Mickaël Bucas > > [1] > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table#Windows:_64-bit_versions > > . > Well, this thing is old enough it is only BIOS. It's a old Dell Inspiron 546. It has a AMD Phenom II X4 955 CPU in it. I upgraded it a bit. It is maxed out at 8GBs of memory. No floppy but I wouldn't be surprised to see a connector on the mobo for one tho. I mostly use these as rigs to do backups with but could serve as a rig to watch TV with if my main rig goes to puter heaven. This one is in a case at least. My usual NAS/backup box rig sits on a piece of plywood. Good ventilation during compiles tho. ROFL I just got to figure out how to make it so I can login as root via ssh again. I set PermitRootLogin to yes in ssh config but still refuses. I did it on my NAS box but can't recall what else I had to do. No monitor, power plug or anything for it right now. I moved it to the kitchen table so I could hook this old Dell to the router. Now to see what else I can get into. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] dhcp error. No network. Address family not supported.
On Sunday, 28 April 2024 03:29:09 BST Dale wrote: > Michael wrote: > > On Saturday, 27 April 2024 23:30:46 BST Dale wrote: [snip ...] > >> Anyone ever seen this? Searching didn't help. This is a new kernel so > >> maybe I missed something in there? > > > > Yes, most likely. > > > > What does this show: > > > > grep SOCKET /usr/src/linux/.config > > > > or this: > > > > grep PACKET /usr/src/linux/.config > > OK. Some of those were turned off. I cut on anything that looked like > something I'd need. Recompiled the kernel and rebooted. What do you > know, it worked. Cool :-) > Now some questions, why is something that most anyone would need turned > off by default? Why is it not mentioned along with other things in the > install docs? I went through the install docs for those options needed, > I don't recall seeing those. I don't know what the devs' thinking on this has been, but it could be such options are not enabled by default because the network configuration can affect security. For a binary desktop distro, more generic options would be preconfigured, as I expect is the case with genkernel. > The only things I left out were the UEFI > thingy stuff. I so dread that UEFI thingy on the new build. o_O I think UEFI is rather simpler to set up, no "BIOS Boot Partition" required. Just create a partition with type ef00 (GUID type C12A7328-F81F-11D2- BA4B-00A0C93EC93B - EFI system partition) and format it as FAT32, before you mount it as /efi. The handbook details how to set up a UEFI system with ESP, so spend some time reading through the docs before you jump in and consider options and permutations if you will be using openrc or systemd. > Thanks to all. It running, apparently with IPv6 at that. O_O Consider your firewall settings to include IPv6, if IPv6 is enabled. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
On Sunday, 28 April 2024 06:24:09 BST Dale wrote: > Michael wrote: > > On Saturday, 27 April 2024 17:53:25 BST Dale wrote: [snip ...] > >> I did some research but still find myself in some muddy > >> waters. My take on some things I've read, I need a boot partition, not > >> to be confused with the /boot for kernels, init thingys and such. Where > >> I get lost, most use gdisk. I like cgdisk. Before that I liked > >> cfdisk. Anyway, how do I set up that partition with cgdisk? Any > >> minimum size requirements or tiny is enough? > > > > 1MB > > OK. You know that "alignment" thing that is always on the beginning of > a drive, could it use it? I think it is like 2MBs or something. It should be 1MB, sector 2048. For 512 byte sector size you'd get: 2048 x 512 = 1,048,576 bytes This is coded in on modern partitioning tools to ensure alignment of logical and physical sectors by default. This alignment is critical for the performance of so called "Advanced Format" disks with 4096 byte size of physical sectors. Therefore I strongly suggest you let the partitioning tool align its logical partitions where it feels best - at the 1MB boundary and not change it. HOWEVER ... If you are partitioning an old disk on a BIOS MoBo with logical/physical sector sizes both at 512/512 bytes, then you can take matters into your own hands and force it to start your 'BIOS Boot Partition' at sector 34. Sectors 0-33 are used by the MBR and the GPT headers, so leave these alone. Start sector 34 End sector 2047 > >> Does it have to be a > >> specific type? > > > > Yes, it has to be set up as a "BIOS Boot Partition", with the "ef02", or > > GUID 21686148-6449-6E6F-744E-656564454649. > > Light bulb moment. I've seen 8300 and friends, 8200 etc but never seen > EF02 before. Now I see what that type means. That cleared up some > muddy water. That lead me to finding this, it has a nice table of > common codes. > > https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/GPT_fdisk If you select [Type] in cgdisk and then press "L" it will list all the partition types available. I suggest you familiarise yourself with gdisk, which has more options, or as already suggested GParted has an easy GUI to navigate through. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
Hi Le sam. 27 avr. 2024 à 18:53, Dale a écrit : > Howdy, > > I'm installing Gentoo on another old box. I was wondering how old this box could be and if it had a BIOS with UEFI and GPT. I didn't find a precise date for BIOS, but Wikipedia[1] shows that the first version of Windows for x64 that can read and write GPT was published on 2005-04-25. To boot with UEFI, a later version was published on 2006-07-22. I think this means most BIOSes were compatible to various degrees at this time. So if your box is less than 20 years old, it should be OK ! I don't remember how powerful the boxes were at this time, but they still had floppy disk drives :) > Thanks to anyone who has a link, some notes or something. :-D > > Dale > > :-) :-) Good luck Mickaël Bucas [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table#Windows:_64-bit_versions
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
Michael wrote: > On Saturday, 27 April 2024 17:53:25 BST Dale wrote: >> Howdy, >> >> I'm installing Gentoo on another old box. To be consistent I like to >> use cgdisk, GPT I think it is called, to partition all my drives, >> regardless of size. > GPT is the partition table structure, which is more advanced than the old DOS > partition table structure. > I just wasn't 100% sure what it was called. >> Thing is, Grub works differently with GPT than it >> does with the old DOS or whatever it is called, like fdisk does in the >> old days. > GRUB works the same, but the disk/partition table structure is different. > > >> I did some research but still find myself in some muddy >> waters. My take on some things I've read, I need a boot partition, not >> to be confused with the /boot for kernels, init thingys and such. Where >> I get lost, most use gdisk. I like cgdisk. Before that I liked >> cfdisk. Anyway, how do I set up that partition with cgdisk? Any >> minimum size requirements or tiny is enough? > 1MB OK. You know that "alignment" thing that is always on the beginning of a drive, could it use it? I think it is like 2MBs or something. >> Does it have to be a >> specific type? > Yes, it has to be set up as a "BIOS Boot Partition", with the "ef02", or GUID > 21686148-6449-6E6F-744E-656564454649. > Light bulb moment. I've seen 8300 and friends, 8200 etc but never seen EF02 before. Now I see what that type means. That cleared up some muddy water. That lead me to finding this, it has a nice table of common codes. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/GPT_fdisk >> Does it need to be in a specific place? > Not necessarily, but since you're not booting this disk on a UEFI MoBo and > consequently won't be using an EFI System Partition (ESP), the very first > partition is fine and will be out of the way of the remaining disk. > > >> Formatted with a file system? > Do not format it. The raw 1MB partition will be used by GRUB to install its > core.img file. > > >> Also, when I do grub-install, do I still point to >> /dev/sda or to /dev/sda1, if sda1 is the special boot partition? > Sector 0 of your disk /dev/sda is where GRUB will drop its boot loader image > 'boot.img'. This is the Master Boot Record region. > > Normally, with a DOS partition table, GRUB's core.img would be dropped in the > empty space of sector 1, following sector 0. However, in the GPT structure > sector 1 is where the GPT partition array data is stored. You don't want > GRUB > making a mess by dropping it's core.img on top of it! > > So, from what I recall you'd install GRUB like so: > > grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt/gentoo/boot --force /dev/sda > > If this won't do it, I'll have to boot an old system of mine to check the > disk > layout in more detail. > > I may look on youtube and see if I can find someone setting up a disk. It may have a video, old one for sure. Maybe that will help me make sense of it even more. I think I got figured out how to use cgdisk now but installing grub may require some more details. What I find odd, most of the howtos I found don't show example outputs. Then again, it could just work. O_o Thanks to all. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] dhcp error. No network. Address family not supported.
Michael wrote: > On Saturday, 27 April 2024 23:30:46 BST Dale wrote: >> Howdy, >> >> I finally got Gentoo on the old rig I had laying around. This is not >> the one I usually refer to as NAS box. I named this one NAS2. LOL I >> got one problem that is confusing me. I've compared it to my main rig >> and the install guide and I think I got everything right but maybe I >> have a typo, missed something or got some other issue. This is what the >> screen says, typing by hand so I hope I don't insert a typo. >> >> >> Bringing up interface enp3s0 >> dhcp ... >> Running dhcpcd ... >> dhcpcd-10.0.6 starting >> main: if_opensockets: address family not supported by protocol >> dhcpcd exited. >> >> >> At first I thought that 10.0.6 was a typo on my part in some config >> file. The usual IP address for that port is 10.0.0.6. Eventually I >> figured out it was the version of dhcp. So, after getting past that, I >> started checking everything network related in the install guide. >> Basically, set it to use dhcp and let er rip. Well, this is the first >> time dhcp has gave me any grief, which is why I think I did something >> wrong. >> >> Anyone ever seen this? Searching didn't help. This is a new kernel so >> maybe I missed something in there? > Yes, most likely. > > What does this show: > > grep SOCKET /usr/src/linux/.config > > or this: > > grep PACKET /usr/src/linux/.config OK. Some of those were turned off. I cut on anything that looked like something I'd need. Recompiled the kernel and rebooted. What do you know, it worked. Now some questions, why is something that most anyone would need turned off by default? Why is it not mentioned along with other things in the install docs? I went through the install docs for those options needed, I don't recall seeing those. The only things I left out were the UEFI thingy stuff. I so dread that UEFI thingy on the new build. o_O Thanks to all. It running, apparently with IPv6 at that. O_O Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] dhcp error. No network. Address family not supported.
On 4/27/24 15:30, Dale wrote: Howdy, I finally got Gentoo on the old rig I had laying around. This is not the one I usually refer to as NAS box. I named this one NAS2. LOL I got one problem that is confusing me. I've compared it to my main rig and the install guide and I think I got everything right but maybe I have a typo, missed something or got some other issue. This is what the screen says, typing by hand so I hope I don't insert a typo. Bringing up interface enp3s0 dhcp ... Running dhcpcd ... dhcpcd-10.0.6 starting main: if_opensockets: address family not supported by protocol dhcpcd exited. Another thought: did you miss CONFIG_PACKET in networking options? That possibly could spit that error out too. Dan
Re: [gentoo-user] dhcp error. No network. Address family not supported.
On Saturday, 27 April 2024 23:30:46 BST Dale wrote: > Howdy, > > I finally got Gentoo on the old rig I had laying around. This is not > the one I usually refer to as NAS box. I named this one NAS2. LOL I > got one problem that is confusing me. I've compared it to my main rig > and the install guide and I think I got everything right but maybe I > have a typo, missed something or got some other issue. This is what the > screen says, typing by hand so I hope I don't insert a typo. > > > Bringing up interface enp3s0 > dhcp ... > Running dhcpcd ... > dhcpcd-10.0.6 starting > main: if_opensockets: address family not supported by protocol > dhcpcd exited. > > > At first I thought that 10.0.6 was a typo on my part in some config > file. The usual IP address for that port is 10.0.0.6. Eventually I > figured out it was the version of dhcp. So, after getting past that, I > started checking everything network related in the install guide. > Basically, set it to use dhcp and let er rip. Well, this is the first > time dhcp has gave me any grief, which is why I think I did something > wrong. > > Anyone ever seen this? Searching didn't help. This is a new kernel so > maybe I missed something in there? Yes, most likely. What does this show: grep SOCKET /usr/src/linux/.config or this: grep PACKET /usr/src/linux/.config signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] dhcp error. No network. Address family not supported.
On 4/27/24 15:30, Dale wrote: Howdy, I finally got Gentoo on the old rig I had laying around. This is not the one I usually refer to as NAS box. I named this one NAS2. LOL I got one problem that is confusing me. I've compared it to my main rig and the install guide and I think I got everything right but maybe I have a typo, missed something or got some other issue. This is what the screen says, typing by hand so I hope I don't insert a typo. Bringing up interface enp3s0 dhcp ... Running dhcpcd ... dhcpcd-10.0.6 starting main: if_opensockets: address family not supported by protocol dhcpcd exited. At first I thought that 10.0.6 was a typo on my part in some config file. The usual IP address for that port is 10.0.0.6. Eventually I figured out it was the version of dhcp. So, after getting past that, I started checking everything network related in the install guide. Basically, set it to use dhcp and let er rip. Well, this is the first time dhcp has gave me any grief, which is why I think I did something wrong. You probably don't have ipv6 enabled in the kernel. There are more and more packages that will not compile with ipv6 disabled. (Or just do not provide the option to disable ipv6.) I do not know if dhcpcd is one of them though. Dan
[gentoo-user] dhcp error. No network. Address family not supported.
Howdy, I finally got Gentoo on the old rig I had laying around. This is not the one I usually refer to as NAS box. I named this one NAS2. LOL I got one problem that is confusing me. I've compared it to my main rig and the install guide and I think I got everything right but maybe I have a typo, missed something or got some other issue. This is what the screen says, typing by hand so I hope I don't insert a typo. Bringing up interface enp3s0 dhcp ... Running dhcpcd ... dhcpcd-10.0.6 starting main: if_opensockets: address family not supported by protocol dhcpcd exited. At first I thought that 10.0.6 was a typo on my part in some config file. The usual IP address for that port is 10.0.0.6. Eventually I figured out it was the version of dhcp. So, after getting past that, I started checking everything network related in the install guide. Basically, set it to use dhcp and let er rip. Well, this is the first time dhcp has gave me any grief, which is why I think I did something wrong. Anyone ever seen this? Searching didn't help. This is a new kernel so maybe I missed something in there? All options on the table. New install and all. Oh, network works from from boot media thingy. Thanks for any ideas. Maybe telling me where I boo boo'd. ROFL Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
On 27/04/2024 17:53, Dale wrote: Howdy, I'm installing Gentoo on another old box. To be consistent I like to use cgdisk, GPT I think it is called, to partition all my drives, regardless of size. Thing is, Grub works differently with GPT than it does with the old DOS or whatever it is called, like fdisk does in the old days. I did some research but still find myself in some muddy waters. My take on some things I've read, I need a boot partition, not to be confused with the /boot for kernels, init thingys and such. Where I get lost, most use gdisk. I like cgdisk. Before that I liked cfdisk. Anyway, how do I set up that partition with cgdisk? Any minimum size requirements or tiny is enough? Does it have to be a specific type? Does it need to be in a specific place? Formatted with a file system? Also, when I do grub-install, do I still point to /dev/sda or to /dev/sda1, if sda1 is the special boot partition? I tried to find a step by step howto with this info but the ones I find either don't work or leaves me more confused. Given that the method is also aging out, it's hard to find good guides. I'd be real happy just to have a link to a good howto that I can make sense of. I can save a copy local and even print it. Maybe someone has some notes that will help. I just need something to help clear up the muddy waters. Hmm ... Michael's version does not ring any bells with me, and indeed my system is *not* set up that way. It's UEFI-capable, but at the time I didn't have a clue what I was doing, so the mobo dumped me into BIOS, and I just installed everything the old way I knew. I do, however, have a 512MB partition configured as type "Microsoft basic data". This is meant to be for the UEFI partition if I get round to converting the system. If you want to "suck it and see", just install grub to /dev/sda. All your GPT disks, by default, leave the first 2MB empty, and grub will stick itself in there I believe. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
On Saturday, 27 April 2024 17:53:25 BST Dale wrote: > Howdy, > > I'm installing Gentoo on another old box. To be consistent I like to > use cgdisk, GPT I think it is called, to partition all my drives, > regardless of size. GPT is the partition table structure, which is more advanced than the old DOS partition table structure. > Thing is, Grub works differently with GPT than it > does with the old DOS or whatever it is called, like fdisk does in the > old days. GRUB works the same, but the disk/partition table structure is different. > I did some research but still find myself in some muddy > waters. My take on some things I've read, I need a boot partition, not > to be confused with the /boot for kernels, init thingys and such. Where > I get lost, most use gdisk. I like cgdisk. Before that I liked > cfdisk. Anyway, how do I set up that partition with cgdisk? Any > minimum size requirements or tiny is enough? 1MB > Does it have to be a > specific type? Yes, it has to be set up as a "BIOS Boot Partition", with the "ef02", or GUID 21686148-6449-6E6F-744E-656564454649. > Does it need to be in a specific place? Not necessarily, but since you're not booting this disk on a UEFI MoBo and consequently won't be using an EFI System Partition (ESP), the very first partition is fine and will be out of the way of the remaining disk. > Formatted with a file system? Do not format it. The raw 1MB partition will be used by GRUB to install its core.img file. > Also, when I do grub-install, do I still point to > /dev/sda or to /dev/sda1, if sda1 is the special boot partition? Sector 0 of your disk /dev/sda is where GRUB will drop its boot loader image 'boot.img'. This is the Master Boot Record region. Normally, with a DOS partition table, GRUB's core.img would be dropped in the empty space of sector 1, following sector 0. However, in the GPT structure sector 1 is where the GPT partition array data is stored. You don't want GRUB making a mess by dropping it's core.img on top of it! So, from what I recall you'd install GRUB like so: grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt/gentoo/boot --force /dev/sda If this won't do it, I'll have to boot an old system of mine to check the disk layout in more detail. > I tried to find a step by step howto with this info but the ones I find > either don't work or leaves me more confused. Given that the method is > also aging out, it's hard to find good guides. I'd be real happy just > to have a link to a good howto that I can make sense of. I can save a > copy local and even print it. Maybe someone has some notes that will > help. I just need something to help clear up the muddy waters. > > Thanks to anyone who has a link, some notes or something. :-D > > Dale > > :-) :-) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 9:53 AM Dale wrote: > > Howdy, > > I'm installing Gentoo on another old box. To be consistent I like to > use cgdisk, GPT I think it is called, to partition all my drives, > regardless of size. Thing is, Grub works differently with GPT than it > does with the old DOS or whatever it is called, like fdisk does in the > old days. I did some research but still find myself in some muddy > waters. My take on some things I've read, I need a boot partition, not > to be confused with the /boot for kernels, init thingys and such. Where > I get lost, most use gdisk. I like cgdisk. Before that I liked > cfdisk. Anyway, how do I set up that partition with cgdisk? Any > minimum size requirements or tiny is enough? Does it have to be a > specific type? Does it need to be in a specific place? Formatted with > a file system? Also, when I do grub-install, do I still point to > /dev/sda or to /dev/sda1, if sda1 is the special boot partition? > > I tried to find a step by step howto with this info but the ones I find > either don't work or leaves me more confused. Given that the method is > also aging out, it's hard to find good guides. I'd be real happy just > to have a link to a good howto that I can make sense of. I can save a > copy local and even print it. Maybe someone has some notes that will > help. I just need something to help clear up the muddy waters. > > Thanks to anyone who has a link, some notes or something. :-D > > Dale > > :-) :-) I think I'm not really understanding your request because I only remember fdisk from the old days, and none of your cfdisk and cgdisk apps. If you're working with disk in your new old-box machine then I'd suggest trying gparted as it pretty much does everything I've ever needed. It's minimally graphical, can changes the partition type and boot flags. This is just one of a billion pages you might look at: https://linuxiac.com/how-to-use-gparted-to-create-and-resize-partitions/ Wishing you the best of luck, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 11:53:25 -0500 Dale wrote: > Howdy, > > I'm installing Gentoo on another old box. To be consistent I like to > use cgdisk, GPT I think it is called, to partition all my drives, > regardless of size. Thing is, Grub works differently with GPT than it > does with the old DOS or whatever it is called, like fdisk does in the > old days. I did some research but still find myself in some muddy > waters. My take on some things I've read, I need a boot partition, > not to be confused with the /boot for kernels, init thingys and such. > Where I get lost, most use gdisk. I like cgdisk. Before that I > liked cfdisk. Anyway, how do I set up that partition with cgdisk? > Any minimum size requirements or tiny is enough? Does it have to be a > specific type? Does it need to be in a specific place? Formatted > with a file system? Also, when I do grub-install, do I still point to > /dev/sda or to /dev/sda1, if sda1 is the special boot partition? > > I tried to find a step by step howto with this info but the ones I > find either don't work or leaves me more confused. Given that the > method is also aging out, it's hard to find good guides. I'd be real > happy just to have a link to a good howto that I can make sense of. > I can save a copy local and even print it. Maybe someone has some > notes that will help. I just need something to help clear up the > muddy waters. > > Thanks to anyone who has a link, some notes or something. :-D > > Dale > > :-) :-) > I don't use cgdisk nor gdisk. Here's a link to Arch's wiki about GPT on BIOS systems: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/GRUB#GUID_Partition_Table_(GPT)_specific_instructions I guess you need to set the same code as in gdisk, or something similar to BIOS boot or bios_grub as are in other such tools. Good luck! Wojciech -- xWK pgphv3vlrm34X.pgp Description: Podpis cyfrowy OpenPGP
[gentoo-user] Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.
Howdy, I'm installing Gentoo on another old box. To be consistent I like to use cgdisk, GPT I think it is called, to partition all my drives, regardless of size. Thing is, Grub works differently with GPT than it does with the old DOS or whatever it is called, like fdisk does in the old days. I did some research but still find myself in some muddy waters. My take on some things I've read, I need a boot partition, not to be confused with the /boot for kernels, init thingys and such. Where I get lost, most use gdisk. I like cgdisk. Before that I liked cfdisk. Anyway, how do I set up that partition with cgdisk? Any minimum size requirements or tiny is enough? Does it have to be a specific type? Does it need to be in a specific place? Formatted with a file system? Also, when I do grub-install, do I still point to /dev/sda or to /dev/sda1, if sda1 is the special boot partition? I tried to find a step by step howto with this info but the ones I find either don't work or leaves me more confused. Given that the method is also aging out, it's hard to find good guides. I'd be real happy just to have a link to a good howto that I can make sense of. I can save a copy local and even print it. Maybe someone has some notes that will help. I just need something to help clear up the muddy waters. Thanks to anyone who has a link, some notes or something. :-D Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] nullmailer error
Hello, after a recent world update nullmailer stopped working. /var/log/nullmailer/nullmailer.log shows for every message send attempt: "smtp: Failed: Error completing TLS handshake: The encryption algorithm is not supported." Downgrading gnutls to 3.8.3 fixed the issue for me. I opened a bug (https://bugs.gentoo.org/930752). Does anybody see the same? raffaele
Re: [gentoo-user] Hibernation without initramfs
On Friday, 26 April 2024 10:23:28 BST Wojciech Kuzyszyn wrote: > On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:40:54 +0100 > > Michael wrote: > > [*] Hibernation (aka 'suspend to disk') > > [*] Userspace snapshot device > > (/dev/sdb6)Default resume partition > > My swap partition is /dev/nvme0n1p2 - this would work I assume, right? Yes, it is a block device accessed via the PCIe bus. > > However, if you are using RAM heavily when you try to hibernate, e.g. > > because you are compiling some large package, have many memory hungry > > applications open, etc., you may find hibernation fails due to lack > > of space. This would be more acute if your RAM is not large enough > > and swap is used on a regular basis. With large enough RAM less swap > > space will be used, since swap would be virtually empty. Therefore > > size your swap device accordingly. > > I have oldschool swap - 2x RAM. OK, with this much space you'd have at least 2x more hibernation storage space than you will need. :-) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hibernation without initramfs
On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:40:54 +0100 Michael wrote: > [*] Hibernation (aka 'suspend to disk') > [*] Userspace snapshot device > (/dev/sdb6)Default resume partition My swap partition is /dev/nvme0n1p2 - this would work I assume, right? > However, if you are using RAM heavily when you try to hibernate, e.g. > because you are compiling some large package, have many memory hungry > applications open, etc., you may find hibernation fails due to lack > of space. This would be more acute if your RAM is not large enough > and swap is used on a regular basis. With large enough RAM less swap > space will be used, since swap would be virtually empty. Therefore > size your swap device accordingly. I have oldschool swap - 2x RAM. -- xWK pgpoV0GlBa6Gb.pgp Description: Podpis cyfrowy OpenPGP
Re: [gentoo-user] Hibernation without initramfs
On Thursday, 25 April 2024 22:29:01 BST Wojciech Kuzyszyn wrote: > Hello! > > Quick question: is it possible to use hibernation (suspend to disk) > with no initramfs? Yes. > I don't have one and don't want to have one. So I'd > rather disable hibernate in kernel (so I won't do this by accident) or > leave it to use it happily when needed. You have to specify a swap block device - a swap partition, or a preconfigured swap file on an already mounted partition - in your kernel configuration, for hibernation to work, e.g.: [*] Hibernation (aka 'suspend to disk') [*] Userspace snapshot device (/dev/sdb6)Default resume partition This swap device will be used at hibernation time to compress and store what is running in your RAM. Since the contents of your RAM will be compressed less space will be required than the size of your RAM. However, if you are using RAM heavily when you try to hibernate, e.g. because you are compiling some large package, have many memory hungry applications open, etc., you may find hibernation fails due to lack of space. This would be more acute if your RAM is not large enough and swap is used on a regular basis. With large enough RAM less swap space will be used, since swap would be virtually empty. Therefore size your swap device accordingly. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Hibernation without initramfs
Hello! Quick question: is it possible to use hibernation (suspend to disk) with no initramfs? I don't have one and don't want to have one. So I'd rather disable hibernate in kernel (so I won't do this by accident) or leave it to use it happily when needed. -- xWK pgpeMbvAVQkat.pgp Description: Podpis cyfrowy OpenPGP
[gentoo-user] Permanent workaround for x11-libs/libxcb build problem
Some machines (e.g. my laptop) experience problems when building the
package x11-libs/libxcb
=
Traceback (most recent call last):
File
"/var/tmp/portage/x11-libs/libxcb-1.16.1/work/libxcb-1.16.1/src/c_client.py",
line 3395, in
module.generate()
File "/usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/xcbgen/state.py", line 131, in
generate
item.out(name)
File
"/var/tmp/portage/x11-libs/libxcb-1.16.1/work/libxcb-1.16.1/src/c_client.py",
line 3212, in c_request
_man_request(self, name, void=not self.reply, aux=False)
File
"/var/tmp/portage/x11-libs/libxcb-1.16.1/work/libxcb-1.16.1/src/c_client.py",
line 2676, in _man_request
f.write('%s \\- %s\n' % (func_name, brief))
UnicodeEncodeError: 'latin-1' codec can't encode character '\u201c' in position
68: ordinal not in range(256)
make[1]: *** [Makefile:1425: composite.c] Error 1
make[1]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs
make[1]: Leaving directory
'/var/tmp/portage/x11-libs/libxcb-1.16.1/work/libxcb-1.16.1-abi_x86_64.amd64/src'
make: *** [Makefile:799: all-recursive] Error 1
ERROR: x11-libs/libxcb-1.16.1::gentoo failed (compile phase):
emake failed
=
Every so often libxcb gets (re)built and this error pops up. It's
always vaguely familiar, so I dig through my gentoo list email, and
figure out that libxcb wants 'LC_ALL="C"' and set it for that one time.
I got tired of re-doing this all the time. This problem is a textbook
example for package.env. Two one-line files solve the error permanently.
Make sure that you've created directories "/etc/portage/package.env/"
and "/etc/portage/env/". Here are the two one-line files.
[thimk2][root][~] cat /etc/portage/env/libxcb.conf
LC_ALL="C"
[thimk2][root][~] cat /etc/portage/package.env/package.env
x11-libs/libxcb libxcb.conf
If you're already using package.env, add the line...
x11-libs/libxcb libxcb.conf
...to your existing package.env file.
--
Roses are red
Roses are blue
Depending on their velocity
Relative to you
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
Michael wrote: > Hi Dale, > > On Sunday, 21 April 2024 03:32:32 BST Dale wrote: > >> OK. I did my weekend OS updates on my main rig, fireball. That >> involves me switching to boot runlevel and back again. When the network >> started, no message about going to default. It just showed it starting >> up and using DHCP. Looks like this: >> >> >> * Bringing up interface enp3s0 >> * dhcp ... >> * Running dhcpcd ... >> >> >> >> I thought of something. My NAS box is shutdown right now so can't >> check. I bet DHCP is set to start in the default runlevel. On my main >> rig it is not set to start the DHCP service at all. I suspect the NAS >> box finds the DHCP service first and starts the network and then finds >> the network service but it is already started. When it starts the >> network with the DHCP service, it does the default thing. I'll test >> that next time I boot up the NAS box. > On one box here I have neither netifrc configured, nor dhcpcd, although both > are installed. I have also made sure networkmanager is not installed. > > However, netmount is in the default runlevel and netmount has the default net > dependency enabled: > > $ grep -v "^#" /etc/conf.d/netmount > rc_need="net" > > $ rc-update show -v | grep -i net > local | default nonetwork >net-online | >net.lo | > netmount | default > > I believe this is what kicks in on my system first and brings up dhcpcd, > which > in turn obtains an IP address from my router. I mostly configure static IP > addresses for known devices in my LAN on the router. > > You can compare which network services are configured to come up on your NAS > Vs your main PC and also check any differences in /etc/rc.conf. Finally > search for "rc_need=" dependencies defined in your /etc/conf.d/*. > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/OpenRC#Dependency_behavior > > >> I guess no one else found a way to get the install handbook on a single >> page. I'll have to copy and paste I guess. That's gonna take a while. >> O_O >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > To save you copying: > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation > > but note the warning about links redirecting to individual pages: > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full My thought was right. My main rig does not have dhcpcd in any runlevel. I booted up the NAS box and checked to see if dhcpcd was listed anywhere. Sure enough, it was in the default runlevel. I removed it and then rebooted. There was no mention of defaulting to anything, the network just came up. So, I guess dhcpcd was trying to start the network first which means it never really saw any of the config files I was adding info too. It was starting before those came into the picture. So, now both rigs work the same and I can start/stop/restart the network on both machines the same way. I suspect if I edited some dhcp config file and set up the ethernet the proper way, it would just come up like it does now, after the change. Also, nothing against dhcp on my part. My main rig uses it. I wanted the NAS box to use it as well, just the same as my main rig. It works great, even if one doesn't do anything to it. Having it set up tho does give more consistent results, as in the same IP address. I can't recall the last time I had dhcp to fail actually. Thanks for the links on the full docs on one page. I already copy and pasted it to a LOo doc and am editing out parts I won't ever use. It's 116 pages and I'm sure there are parts in there that won't ever apply to me, systemd for example. Maybe I can get the page count down to 100 or so. If I'm lucky. Is there anyway to know when the doc changes and what changes? And how did you find that link? I looked everywhere. :/ Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
On Sunday, 21 April 2024 20:36:56 BST J. Roeleveld wrote: > On Friday, 19 April 2024 16:05:47 CEST Dale wrote: > > Howdy, > > > > I'm playing around with my NAS box again. I ran into a network issue. > > I sorta forgot I unplugged the network cable so obviously, it made it > > difficult to ssh into the thing from my main rig. After hooking up a > > monitor and keyboard, I found the problem and plugged the network cable > > back in. ROFLMBO Told y'all I forget stuff. > > > > Anyway, while investigating this, I realized the network setup is not > > like on my old rig. Heck, I couldn't even figure out how to restart it > > other than switching to the boot runlevel and back to default, or > > rebooting. After a bit, I think I can restart DHCP and it restart the > > network. I figured out the cable was unplugged before trying that. I'm > > wanting to set up the NAS box network the same way as my main rig. > > That's the old manual way. I went back to the install handbook, that's > > what I followed when installing on my main rig. Thing is, it has been > > updated and the old way isn't all there. I followed what little bit is > > there but it defaults back to the new way. I'm sure I'm missing some > > file I need to edit but I can't figure out which one it is. So, is > > there a way to get the old instructions again? The ones I followed > > several years ago for my main rig? I tried searching but it seems they > > all gone. Maybe there is a place I'm not aware of tho. Basically, I > > want to be able to start/stop/restart enp3s0 as a service and have it in > > a runlevel. > > > > Also, I'd like to get the install handbook as one large page. My > > intention is to save it locally for future reference as it is now. I > > may even print a copy. I looked at all the places that have different > > options but can't find the whole thing as one large page. I looked > > under several drop down menus and such. A long time ago, it was a > > option. I just can't find it now. May that option isn't available > > anymore. I wish I had a copy of the one from several years ago. Back > > when I installed on my main rig. > > > > Some network info. Lines that are commented out are options I tried but > > didn't work. It was worth a shot. o_O > > > > > > nas / # grep -r '!net' /etc/ > > /etc/rc.conf:rc_hotplug="!net.*" > > nas / # grep -r 'enp3s0' /etc/ > > /etc/resolv.conf:# Generated by dhcpcd from enp3s0.dhcp > > /etc/conf.d/net:config_enp3s0="dhcp" > > /etc/conf.d/net:dns_servers_enp3s0="8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4" > > /etc/conf.d/net:#config_enp3s0="10.0.0.5" > > nas / #nas / # ifconfig -s enp3s0 > > Iface MTURX-OK RX-ERR RX-DRP RX-OVRTX-OK TX-ERR TX-DRP > > TX-OVR Flg > > enp3s0 150016802 0 0 0 17196 0 > > 0 0 BMRU > > nas / # > > > > > > Thoughts? If I had the old install info, I think I could get it to > > work. I did last time. ;-) > > Yes, try: > config_enp3s0="10.0.0.5/24" > routes_enp3s0="default gw " > > Changes to what I see: > 1) You forgot the netmask ( /24 ) for the network > 2) I don't see a default route > > -- > Joost That'll certainly work to specify a static IP address on the PC, but I understood Dale wanted to use DHCP to obtain an IP dynamically from the router and only use netifrc to set up DNS resolvers. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: SOLVED: Re: [gentoo-user] Getting WiFi to work
On Sunday, 21 April 2024 23:30:54 BST Wol wrote: > On 19/04/2024 17:02, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > > > Just reporting back. > > > > I built a new system - using NetworkManager (after all I've said about > > it!) - now that it's so much quicker using binpkgs. > > > > It all went fairly smoothly, taking one step at a time through changing > > several USE flags, installing various tools, and finally, adding the new > > wlan0 interface to shorewall. > > > > The machine can now boot with either wired or wireless network, or both. > > > > Thank you, all who helped. > > Any chance you can document those steps? Yes, I ought to do that. I just need to remember... ;-) > I'm struggling to get wireless working on my laptop - the statement in the > handbook Wireless networking on Linux is usually pretty straightforward. > There are three ways of configuring wifi: graphical clients, text-mode > interfaces, and command-line interfaces. > > just seems to be complete rubbish :-( It does seem that way, indeed. It was certainly no use to me. > As far as I can tell, my kernel is bringing up the hardware fine - dmesg > tells me my wireless interface has come up fine with iwlwifi, and has > been renamed from wlan0 to wlo1. Network manager detects the ethernet > connection but can't even see the wireless connection. > > Ummm ... of course, sod has just struck, I've rebooted, started Network > Manager (which I thought I'd uninstalled) and wonder of wonders I have > internet! > > But some documentation would certainly be appreciated. I'll see what I can do in the next day or two. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: SOLVED: Re: [gentoo-user] Getting WiFi to work
On 19/04/2024 17:02, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Tuesday, 9 April 2024 14:23:31 BST I wrote: Just reporting back. I built a new system - using NetworkManager (after all I've said about it!) - now that it's so much quicker using binpkgs. It all went fairly smoothly, taking one step at a time through changing several USE flags, installing various tools, and finally, adding the new wlan0 interface to shorewall. The machine can now boot with either wired or wireless network, or both. Thank you, all who helped. Any chance you can document those steps? I'm struggling to get wireless working on my laptop - the statement in the handbook > Wireless networking on Linux is usually pretty straightforward. There are three ways of configuring wifi: graphical clients, text-mode interfaces, and command-line interfaces. just seems to be complete rubbish :-( As far as I can tell, my kernel is bringing up the hardware fine - dmesg tells me my wireless interface has come up fine with iwlwifi, and has been renamed from wlan0 to wlo1. Network manager detects the ethernet connection but can't even see the wireless connection. Ummm ... of course, sod has just struck, I've rebooted, started Network Manager (which I thought I'd uninstalled) and wonder of wonders I have internet! But some documentation would certainly be appreciated. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
On Friday, 19 April 2024 16:05:47 CEST Dale wrote: > Howdy, > > I'm playing around with my NAS box again. I ran into a network issue. > I sorta forgot I unplugged the network cable so obviously, it made it > difficult to ssh into the thing from my main rig. After hooking up a > monitor and keyboard, I found the problem and plugged the network cable > back in. ROFLMBO Told y'all I forget stuff. > > Anyway, while investigating this, I realized the network setup is not > like on my old rig. Heck, I couldn't even figure out how to restart it > other than switching to the boot runlevel and back to default, or > rebooting. After a bit, I think I can restart DHCP and it restart the > network. I figured out the cable was unplugged before trying that. I'm > wanting to set up the NAS box network the same way as my main rig. > That's the old manual way. I went back to the install handbook, that's > what I followed when installing on my main rig. Thing is, it has been > updated and the old way isn't all there. I followed what little bit is > there but it defaults back to the new way. I'm sure I'm missing some > file I need to edit but I can't figure out which one it is. So, is > there a way to get the old instructions again? The ones I followed > several years ago for my main rig? I tried searching but it seems they > all gone. Maybe there is a place I'm not aware of tho. Basically, I > want to be able to start/stop/restart enp3s0 as a service and have it in > a runlevel. > > Also, I'd like to get the install handbook as one large page. My > intention is to save it locally for future reference as it is now. I > may even print a copy. I looked at all the places that have different > options but can't find the whole thing as one large page. I looked > under several drop down menus and such. A long time ago, it was a > option. I just can't find it now. May that option isn't available > anymore. I wish I had a copy of the one from several years ago. Back > when I installed on my main rig. > > Some network info. Lines that are commented out are options I tried but > didn't work. It was worth a shot. o_O > > > nas / # grep -r '!net' /etc/ > /etc/rc.conf:rc_hotplug="!net.*" > nas / # grep -r 'enp3s0' /etc/ > /etc/resolv.conf:# Generated by dhcpcd from enp3s0.dhcp > /etc/conf.d/net:config_enp3s0="dhcp" > /etc/conf.d/net:dns_servers_enp3s0="8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4" > /etc/conf.d/net:#config_enp3s0="10.0.0.5" > nas / #nas / # ifconfig -s enp3s0 > Iface MTURX-OK RX-ERR RX-DRP RX-OVRTX-OK TX-ERR TX-DRP > TX-OVR Flg > enp3s0 150016802 0 0 0 17196 0 > 0 0 BMRU > nas / # > > > Thoughts? If I had the old install info, I think I could get it to > work. I did last time. ;-) Yes, try: config_enp3s0="10.0.0.5/24" routes_enp3s0="default gw " Changes to what I see: 1) You forgot the netmask ( /24 ) for the network 2) I don't see a default route -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
Hi Dale, On Sunday, 21 April 2024 03:32:32 BST Dale wrote: > OK. I did my weekend OS updates on my main rig, fireball. That > involves me switching to boot runlevel and back again. When the network > started, no message about going to default. It just showed it starting > up and using DHCP. Looks like this: > > > * Bringing up interface enp3s0 > * dhcp ... > * Running dhcpcd ... > > > > I thought of something. My NAS box is shutdown right now so can't > check. I bet DHCP is set to start in the default runlevel. On my main > rig it is not set to start the DHCP service at all. I suspect the NAS > box finds the DHCP service first and starts the network and then finds > the network service but it is already started. When it starts the > network with the DHCP service, it does the default thing. I'll test > that next time I boot up the NAS box. On one box here I have neither netifrc configured, nor dhcpcd, although both are installed. I have also made sure networkmanager is not installed. However, netmount is in the default runlevel and netmount has the default net dependency enabled: $ grep -v "^#" /etc/conf.d/netmount rc_need="net" $ rc-update show -v | grep -i net local | default nonetwork net-online | net.lo | netmount | default I believe this is what kicks in on my system first and brings up dhcpcd, which in turn obtains an IP address from my router. I mostly configure static IP addresses for known devices in my LAN on the router. You can compare which network services are configured to come up on your NAS Vs your main PC and also check any differences in /etc/rc.conf. Finally search for "rc_need=" dependencies defined in your /etc/conf.d/*. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/OpenRC#Dependency_behavior > I guess no one else found a way to get the install handbook on a single > page. I'll have to copy and paste I guess. That's gonna take a while. > O_O > > Dale > > :-) :-) To save you copying: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation but note the warning about links redirecting to individual pages: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
Michael wrote: > On Friday, 19 April 2024 18:04:57 BST Dale wrote: > >> I'm missing something. > I don't think you are. Shutdown your main rig. Pull the ethernet cable. > Reboot. If the main rig's config is the same as the old rig, > > AND > > the router addressing is analogous on both PCs, > > THEN > > their behaviour and messages ought to be the same. > >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) >> >> P. S. Back to mowing grass. OK. I did my weekend OS updates on my main rig, fireball. That involves me switching to boot runlevel and back again. When the network started, no message about going to default. It just showed it starting up and using DHCP. Looks like this: * Bringing up interface enp3s0 * dhcp ... * Running dhcpcd ... I thought of something. My NAS box is shutdown right now so can't check. I bet DHCP is set to start in the default runlevel. On my main rig it is not set to start the DHCP service at all. I suspect the NAS box finds the DHCP service first and starts the network and then finds the network service but it is already started. When it starts the network with the DHCP service, it does the default thing. I'll test that next time I boot up the NAS box. I guess no one else found a way to get the install handbook on a single page. I'll have to copy and paste I guess. That's gonna take a while. O_O Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
On Friday, 19 April 2024 18:04:57 BST Dale wrote: > I'm missing something. I don't think you are. Shutdown your main rig. Pull the ethernet cable. Reboot. If the main rig's config is the same as the old rig, AND the router addressing is analogous on both PCs, THEN their behaviour and messages ought to be the same. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > > P. S. Back to mowing grass. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
Michael wrote: > On Friday, 19 April 2024 17:20:44 BST Dale wrote: >> Matt Connell wrote: >>> On Fri, 2024-04-19 at 09:05 -0500, Dale wrote: Basically, I want to be able to start/stop/restart enp3s0 as a service and have it in a runlevel. >>> You should just need to create a symlink at /etc/init.d/net.enp3s0 that >>> points to /etc/init.d/net.lo and then you can do the usual rc-service >>> stuff with it. >> I did that and went from default to boot runlevel and back to default >> again but I still couldn't restart with the net.enp3s0 file. Luckily, I >> shut the rig down a bit ago. I went to mow some grass. Using push >> mower since battery went bad on riding mower. Anyway, when I booted it >> back up just now, it worked. I can start/stop/restart with the enp3s0 >> file like on my main rig. It still says it is defaulting to DHCP which >> makes me think I'm still missing something. It says, I'm typing this in >> manually. >> >> >> Bringing up interface enp3s0 >> config_enp3s0 not specified; defaulting to DHCP >> >> >> Then it continues bringing up the network. I have this set: >> >> nas / # cat /etc/conf.d/net >> config_enp3s0="dhcp" >> dns_servers_enp3s0="8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4" >> nas / # >> >> >> Since I have it set to use DHCP already, why is it saying it is >> defaulting to it? Did I miss a file or something? Shouldn't it just >> use it without saying it is defaulting to it? I don't recall seeing >> this on my main rig. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > Normally you would use netifrc to configure a gateway and static IP address. > DHCP is a fallback, in case the static IP subnet has changed - e.g. because > you changed your home router. > > If you *are* using dhcpcd to obtain an IP address from the router then > arguably your don't need netifrc at all, as I explained in my other message > earlier. > > Regarding the messages you see on your main rig Vs the old rig, you can > compare the two PC's conf.net files for any differences. That's thing. I think they are the same. Here is my main rig, fireball. root@fireball / # cat /etc/conf.d/net config_enp3s0="dhcp" dns_servers_enp3s0="8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4" root@fireball / # NAS box: nas / # cat /etc/conf.d/net config_enp3s0="dhcp" dns_servers_enp3s0="8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4" nas / # One says it is defaulting, the other doesn't. I've used grep to search, I've looked everywhere I can think of that even might have some config file for network stuff and I can't find any difference. On your other reply. I think I did set up the router to set IP addresses. I know I did for my phone and printer. That printer used to drive me nuts. Every time the power would blink, it wouldn't print. No IP address so can't access it except through that tiny little display and the buttons on the printer. What a drag. o_O I'm missing something. I set up the network on this rig almost a decade ago. I have very little memory of how I did it. I always thought I could just refer back to the install guide. Didn't occur to me they would remove stuff. Dale :-) :-) P. S. Back to mowing grass.
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
On Fri, 2024-04-19 at 17:34 +0100, Michael wrote: > Configure static IP addresses for all your LAN devices on your home > router. Then set your devices to use DHCP to obtain an address from > the router when they come up. With a large number of devices which > often change (e.g. guests in a hotel) this is inadvisable, but with a > home LAN with a handful of devices this is not too much of a chore. This is what I do, for the sake of the argument. I never touch client configuration on anything; the router is the boss. Much easier that way in my experience.
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
On Friday, 19 April 2024 17:20:44 BST Dale wrote: > Matt Connell wrote: > > On Fri, 2024-04-19 at 09:05 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> Basically, I want to be able to start/stop/restart enp3s0 as a > >> service and have it in a runlevel. > > > > You should just need to create a symlink at /etc/init.d/net.enp3s0 that > > points to /etc/init.d/net.lo and then you can do the usual rc-service > > stuff with it. > > I did that and went from default to boot runlevel and back to default > again but I still couldn't restart with the net.enp3s0 file. Luckily, I > shut the rig down a bit ago. I went to mow some grass. Using push > mower since battery went bad on riding mower. Anyway, when I booted it > back up just now, it worked. I can start/stop/restart with the enp3s0 > file like on my main rig. It still says it is defaulting to DHCP which > makes me think I'm still missing something. It says, I'm typing this in > manually. > > > Bringing up interface enp3s0 > config_enp3s0 not specified; defaulting to DHCP > > > Then it continues bringing up the network. I have this set: > > nas / # cat /etc/conf.d/net > config_enp3s0="dhcp" > dns_servers_enp3s0="8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4" > nas / # > > > Since I have it set to use DHCP already, why is it saying it is > defaulting to it? Did I miss a file or something? Shouldn't it just > use it without saying it is defaulting to it? I don't recall seeing > this on my main rig. > > Dale > > :-) :-) Normally you would use netifrc to configure a gateway and static IP address. DHCP is a fallback, in case the static IP subnet has changed - e.g. because you changed your home router. If you *are* using dhcpcd to obtain an IP address from the router then arguably your don't need netifrc at all, as I explained in my other message earlier. Regarding the messages you see on your main rig Vs the old rig, you can compare the two PC's conf.net files for any differences. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
On Friday, 19 April 2024 17:26:43 BST Dale wrote: > Michael wrote: > > On Friday, 19 April 2024 15:05:47 BST Dale wrote: > >> Anyway, while investigating this, I realized the network setup is not > >> like on my old rig. Heck, I couldn't even figure out how to restart it > >> other than switching to the boot runlevel and back to default, or > >> rebooting. After a bit, I think I can restart DHCP and it restart the > >> network. I figured out the cable was unplugged before trying that. I'm > >> wanting to set up the NAS box network the same way as my main rig. > >> That's the old manual way. I went back to the install handbook, that's > >> what I followed when installing on my main rig. Thing is, it has been > >> updated and the old way isn't all there. I followed what little bit is > >> there but it defaults back to the new way. I'm sure I'm missing some > >> file I need to edit but I can't figure out which one it is. So, is > >> there a way to get the old instructions again? The ones I followed > >> several years ago for my main rig? I tried searching but it seems they > >> all gone. Maybe there is a place I'm not aware of tho. Basically, I > >> want to be able to start/stop/restart enp3s0 as a service and have it in > >> a runlevel. > > > > Without knowing what you refer to as 'The Old Way' Vs 'The New Way', or > > how > > your 'main rig', Vs your 'old rig' may have been configured, I'll try to > > make a guess, or two: > > > > 1. Old Way = netifrc > > > > You configure /etc/conf.d/net using the well commented example provided > > in: > > > > /usr/share/doc/netifrc-*/net.example.bz2 > > > > You symlink your interface enp3s0 to the net.lo netifrc init script and > > add it to the default runlevel: > > > > ln -s /etc/init.d/net.lo /etc/init.d/net.enp3s0 > > rc-update add net.enp3s0 default > > > > then (re)start, check the status, or stop your newly configured interface, > > e.g.: > > > > rc-service -v net.enp3s0 status > > rc-service -v net.enp3s0 restart > > > > More detailed info than you should ever need and all on one page, is > > provided here: > > > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Netifrc > > > > > > 2. New Way = DHCP (?) > > > > Although dhcp can be configured as a fallback option within > > /etc/conf.d/net in addition to static addresses, gateways, etc., it can > > also be set up as a standalone service without netifrc. Emerge dhcpcd > > and add it to the default runlevel. > > > > If you have set static IP address(es) at your home router for the old box > > and its MAC address, then that's all you need to do before you run: > > > > rc-service -v dhcpcd restart > > > > If you prefer to not set up a configuration for your old rig on the > > router, > > then you can add a static IP address in your /etc/dhcpcd.conf. > > > > Again, more info than you should need is provided here: > > > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Dhcpcd > > > > HTH, otherwise ask if you get stuck. > > Rebooting the NAS box improved things. See reply to Matt. By old way, > I mean using a symlink to net.lo with the interface/card name such as > enp3s0 to start/stop/restart the service. It still uses DHCP to get > connection info but I'd also like to specify the IP address if I can. I > like to set those so that they don't change even if I move cables > around. Main rig, NAS box, cell phone and printer. The printer really > gets upset when something changes. > > I think I should have used the word "older" instead of "old". ROFL :-D > > Dale > > :-) :-) OKey, dOKey, you can: Configure static IP addresses for all your LAN devices on your home router. Then set your devices to use DHCP to obtain an address from the router when they come up. With a large number of devices which often change (e.g. guests in a hotel) this is inadvisable, but with a home LAN with a handful of devices this is not too much of a chore. Alternatively, you can configure each of your devices with static IP addresses. The URLs I sent you explain how to do this. For a couple of PCs this should take less than 5 minutes, inc. restarting the NIC service, or a reboot to make sure all works as intended on statup. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
Michael wrote: > On Friday, 19 April 2024 15:05:47 BST Dale wrote: > >> Anyway, while investigating this, I realized the network setup is not >> like on my old rig. Heck, I couldn't even figure out how to restart it >> other than switching to the boot runlevel and back to default, or >> rebooting. After a bit, I think I can restart DHCP and it restart the >> network. I figured out the cable was unplugged before trying that. I'm >> wanting to set up the NAS box network the same way as my main rig. >> That's the old manual way. I went back to the install handbook, that's >> what I followed when installing on my main rig. Thing is, it has been >> updated and the old way isn't all there. I followed what little bit is >> there but it defaults back to the new way. I'm sure I'm missing some >> file I need to edit but I can't figure out which one it is. So, is >> there a way to get the old instructions again? The ones I followed >> several years ago for my main rig? I tried searching but it seems they >> all gone. Maybe there is a place I'm not aware of tho. Basically, I >> want to be able to start/stop/restart enp3s0 as a service and have it in >> a runlevel. > Without knowing what you refer to as 'The Old Way' Vs 'The New Way', or how > your 'main rig', Vs your 'old rig' may have been configured, I'll try to make > a guess, or two: > > 1. Old Way = netifrc > > You configure /etc/conf.d/net using the well commented example provided in: > > /usr/share/doc/netifrc-*/net.example.bz2 > > You symlink your interface enp3s0 to the net.lo netifrc init script and add > it > to the default runlevel: > > ln -s /etc/init.d/net.lo /etc/init.d/net.enp3s0 > rc-update add net.enp3s0 default > > then (re)start, check the status, or stop your newly configured interface, > e.g.: > > rc-service -v net.enp3s0 status > rc-service -v net.enp3s0 restart > > More detailed info than you should ever need and all on one page, is provided > here: > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Netifrc > > > 2. New Way = DHCP (?) > > Although dhcp can be configured as a fallback option within /etc/conf.d/net > in > addition to static addresses, gateways, etc., it can also be set up as a > standalone service without netifrc. Emerge dhcpcd and add it to the default > runlevel. > > If you have set static IP address(es) at your home router for the old box and > its MAC address, then that's all you need to do before you run: > > rc-service -v dhcpcd restart > > If you prefer to not set up a configuration for your old rig on the router, > then you can add a static IP address in your /etc/dhcpcd.conf. > > Again, more info than you should need is provided here: > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Dhcpcd > > HTH, otherwise ask if you get stuck. Rebooting the NAS box improved things. See reply to Matt. By old way, I mean using a symlink to net.lo with the interface/card name such as enp3s0 to start/stop/restart the service. It still uses DHCP to get connection info but I'd also like to specify the IP address if I can. I like to set those so that they don't change even if I move cables around. Main rig, NAS box, cell phone and printer. The printer really gets upset when something changes. I think I should have used the word "older" instead of "old". ROFL :-D Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
Matt Connell wrote: > On Fri, 2024-04-19 at 09:05 -0500, Dale wrote: >> Basically, I want to be able to start/stop/restart enp3s0 as a >> service and have it in a runlevel. > You should just need to create a symlink at /etc/init.d/net.enp3s0 that > points to /etc/init.d/net.lo and then you can do the usual rc-service > stuff with it. > > I did that and went from default to boot runlevel and back to default again but I still couldn't restart with the net.enp3s0 file. Luckily, I shut the rig down a bit ago. I went to mow some grass. Using push mower since battery went bad on riding mower. Anyway, when I booted it back up just now, it worked. I can start/stop/restart with the enp3s0 file like on my main rig. It still says it is defaulting to DHCP which makes me think I'm still missing something. It says, I'm typing this in manually. Bringing up interface enp3s0 config_enp3s0 not specified; defaulting to DHCP Then it continues bringing up the network. I have this set: nas / # cat /etc/conf.d/net config_enp3s0="dhcp" dns_servers_enp3s0="8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4" nas / # Since I have it set to use DHCP already, why is it saying it is defaulting to it? Did I miss a file or something? Shouldn't it just use it without saying it is defaulting to it? I don't recall seeing this on my main rig. Dale :-) :-)
SOLVED: Re: [gentoo-user] Getting WiFi to work
On Tuesday, 9 April 2024 14:23:31 BST I wrote: > I want to move my Intel i5 NUC box to a place where Ethernet is not > available, nor like to become so. That means I have to get WiFi working, > but I've had no success so far. The wiki pages are many, confusing and > contradictory, so I'd like the panel's advice on the way to proceed. Just reporting back. I built a new system - using NetworkManager (after all I've said about it!) - now that it's so much quicker using binpkgs. It all went fairly smoothly, taking one step at a time through changing several USE flags, installing various tools, and finally, adding the new wlan0 interface to shorewall. The machine can now boot with either wired or wireless network, or both. Thank you, all who helped. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
On Friday, 19 April 2024 15:05:47 BST Dale wrote: > Anyway, while investigating this, I realized the network setup is not > like on my old rig. Heck, I couldn't even figure out how to restart it > other than switching to the boot runlevel and back to default, or > rebooting. After a bit, I think I can restart DHCP and it restart the > network. I figured out the cable was unplugged before trying that. I'm > wanting to set up the NAS box network the same way as my main rig. > That's the old manual way. I went back to the install handbook, that's > what I followed when installing on my main rig. Thing is, it has been > updated and the old way isn't all there. I followed what little bit is > there but it defaults back to the new way. I'm sure I'm missing some > file I need to edit but I can't figure out which one it is. So, is > there a way to get the old instructions again? The ones I followed > several years ago for my main rig? I tried searching but it seems they > all gone. Maybe there is a place I'm not aware of tho. Basically, I > want to be able to start/stop/restart enp3s0 as a service and have it in > a runlevel. Without knowing what you refer to as 'The Old Way' Vs 'The New Way', or how your 'main rig', Vs your 'old rig' may have been configured, I'll try to make a guess, or two: 1. Old Way = netifrc You configure /etc/conf.d/net using the well commented example provided in: /usr/share/doc/netifrc-*/net.example.bz2 You symlink your interface enp3s0 to the net.lo netifrc init script and add it to the default runlevel: ln -s /etc/init.d/net.lo /etc/init.d/net.enp3s0 rc-update add net.enp3s0 default then (re)start, check the status, or stop your newly configured interface, e.g.: rc-service -v net.enp3s0 status rc-service -v net.enp3s0 restart More detailed info than you should ever need and all on one page, is provided here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Netifrc 2. New Way = DHCP (?) Although dhcp can be configured as a fallback option within /etc/conf.d/net in addition to static addresses, gateways, etc., it can also be set up as a standalone service without netifrc. Emerge dhcpcd and add it to the default runlevel. If you have set static IP address(es) at your home router for the old box and its MAC address, then that's all you need to do before you run: rc-service -v dhcpcd restart If you prefer to not set up a configuration for your old rig on the router, then you can add a static IP address in your /etc/dhcpcd.conf. Again, more info than you should need is provided here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Dhcpcd HTH, otherwise ask if you get stuck. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
On Fri, 2024-04-19 at 09:05 -0500, Dale wrote: > Basically, I want to be able to start/stop/restart enp3s0 as a > service and have it in a runlevel. You should just need to create a symlink at /etc/init.d/net.enp3s0 that points to /etc/init.d/net.lo and then you can do the usual rc-service stuff with it.
[gentoo-user] Handbook and question about manual network setup
Howdy, I'm playing around with my NAS box again. I ran into a network issue. I sorta forgot I unplugged the network cable so obviously, it made it difficult to ssh into the thing from my main rig. After hooking up a monitor and keyboard, I found the problem and plugged the network cable back in. ROFLMBO Told y'all I forget stuff. Anyway, while investigating this, I realized the network setup is not like on my old rig. Heck, I couldn't even figure out how to restart it other than switching to the boot runlevel and back to default, or rebooting. After a bit, I think I can restart DHCP and it restart the network. I figured out the cable was unplugged before trying that. I'm wanting to set up the NAS box network the same way as my main rig. That's the old manual way. I went back to the install handbook, that's what I followed when installing on my main rig. Thing is, it has been updated and the old way isn't all there. I followed what little bit is there but it defaults back to the new way. I'm sure I'm missing some file I need to edit but I can't figure out which one it is. So, is there a way to get the old instructions again? The ones I followed several years ago for my main rig? I tried searching but it seems they all gone. Maybe there is a place I'm not aware of tho. Basically, I want to be able to start/stop/restart enp3s0 as a service and have it in a runlevel. Also, I'd like to get the install handbook as one large page. My intention is to save it locally for future reference as it is now. I may even print a copy. I looked at all the places that have different options but can't find the whole thing as one large page. I looked under several drop down menus and such. A long time ago, it was a option. I just can't find it now. May that option isn't available anymore. I wish I had a copy of the one from several years ago. Back when I installed on my main rig. Some network info. Lines that are commented out are options I tried but didn't work. It was worth a shot. o_O nas / # grep -r '!net' /etc/ /etc/rc.conf:rc_hotplug="!net.*" nas / # grep -r 'enp3s0' /etc/ /etc/resolv.conf:# Generated by dhcpcd from enp3s0.dhcp /etc/conf.d/net:config_enp3s0="dhcp" /etc/conf.d/net:dns_servers_enp3s0="8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4" /etc/conf.d/net:#config_enp3s0="10.0.0.5" nas / #nas / # ifconfig -s enp3s0 Iface MTU RX-OK RX-ERR RX-DRP RX-OVR TX-OK TX-ERR TX-DRP TX-OVR Flg enp3s0 1500 16802 0 0 0 17196 0 0 0 BMRU nas / # Thoughts? If I had the old install info, I think I could get it to work. I did last time. ;-) Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 07:26:30AM -0500 schrieb Dale: > >> If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. >>> I'd add to this, you could still play many games, especially older games >>> using >>> a modern APU. The integrated graphics capability is broadly comparable >>> with >>> the entry level discrete GPUs. For driving a couple of monitors and >>> watching >>> videos an APU is more than adequate, saves money on a graphics card and >>> consumes less power. >>> >> The biggest reason I like a separate video card, I can upgrade if >> needed. > If you don’t play (big) games, then there is no reason to upgrade (except > if you plan on working with AI stuff). > >> Built in video means a new mobo. > No, a new CPU. The mobo only provides the lanes from the iGPU to the > connectors on the back. The only constraint imposed by the motherboard may > be an older version of the display link, like DisplayPort 1.2 instead of > 1.4. Only the latter supports 4K @ 120 Hz, the former tops out at 60 Hz. > >> I'd suspect even the wimpiest video card would do what I need. > In that case, every iGPU would do what you need. 嵐 The only exception may > be some hot new video hardware encoder. RDNA2, as can be found in Ryzen > 7000s, now supports AV1 decoding, which was still lacking in the 5000s. > > -- Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’ “Meow” “Woof” > Jeez, it’s really raining today! It would be my luck, the CPU would stop providing video somehow and take the lanes with it. LOL Still, I plan to go with on board video this time. See how it works out. It does have two ports like I need. As long as I don't need any more ports for something, then it will work fine. Thanks to both for the info. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
On 18/04/2024 13:26, Dale wrote: The biggest reason I like a separate video card, I can upgrade if needed. Built in video means a new mobo. Having a motherboard that supports an apu doesn't preclude adding a separate graphics card later if required (viz a lot of laptops that come so provisioned).
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Am Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 07:26:30AM -0500 schrieb Dale: > If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. > > I'd add to this, you could still play many games, especially older games > > using > > a modern APU. The integrated graphics capability is broadly comparable > > with > > the entry level discrete GPUs. For driving a couple of monitors and > > watching > > videos an APU is more than adequate, saves money on a graphics card and > > consumes less power. > > > > The biggest reason I like a separate video card, I can upgrade if > needed. If you don’t play (big) games, then there is no reason to upgrade (except if you plan on working with AI stuff). > Built in video means a new mobo. No, a new CPU. The mobo only provides the lanes from the iGPU to the connectors on the back. The only constraint imposed by the motherboard may be an older version of the display link, like DisplayPort 1.2 instead of 1.4. Only the latter supports 4K @ 120 Hz, the former tops out at 60 Hz. > I'd suspect even the wimpiest video card would do what I need. In that case, every iGPU would do what you need. 嵐 The only exception may be some hot new video hardware encoder. RDNA2, as can be found in Ryzen 7000s, now supports AV1 decoding, which was still lacking in the 5000s. -- Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’ “Meow” “Woof”Jeez, it’s really raining today! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Michael wrote: > On Wednesday, 17 April 2024 23:13:40 BST Dale wrote: >> Frank Steinmetzger wrote: >>> Am Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 01:18:39PM -0400 schrieb Rich Freeman: On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:33 AM Dale wrote: > Rich Freeman wrote: > If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. > I'd add to this, you could still play many games, especially older games > using > a modern APU. The integrated graphics capability is broadly comparable with > the entry level discrete GPUs. For driving a couple of monitors and watching > videos an APU is more than adequate, saves money on a graphics card and > consumes less power. > The biggest reason I like a separate video card, I can upgrade if needed. Built in video means a new mobo. I'd suspect even the wimpiest video card would do what I need. The biggest thing, number of ports. I suspect tho, a built in video will outlast any card I buy. I almost always buy a card that has some age on it anyway. The built in video will likely be a LOT newer. >> I do have Nvidia and I use the Nvidia drivers. Thought about using the >> ones in the kernel but just never did. I don't think it is the video >> card tho. I think some of it is all the hard drives I have installed >> and that they are busy. I run torrent software all the time. It stays >> very busy. I actually set the connection speed to a little lower so >> that I have some network speed that isn't being used so that when I do >> something, I get some network bandwidth. Plus, there's that growing >> software problem that always exists. Software rarely shrinks. >> That sounds like RAM but I couldn't say for sure. In any case a modern system will definitely help. > +1 > > In particular it sounds like I/O becomes saturated as swap ramps up. > Also, fstrim, updatedb, rkhunter, etc., running in the background can make > things worse. > I've pretty much disabled swap. The swappiness setting is set to 0 or 1. It will use it but it is really out of memory when it does. My OS and swap is on spinning rust. When it starts to use swap, it really slows down when switching desktops or something. I do believe tho that the torrent software keeps the I/O pretty busy. Maybe I should adjust the nice and ionice for it. Maybe that would help. It's one reason I may let it run on my current rig, when new rig is built, instead of my main rig. Let it slow down a rig I'm not actually using for myself. I can still hook my backup drives to it for updating those. >>> Well, is the RAM full? My 10 years old PC has 32 Gigs and still runs very >>> smooth (with Intel integrated graphics). >> Generally, I use about 20 to 25GBs of RAM. Mostly, Seamonkey, Firefox >> and the torrent software. > An 8-core/thread CPU can eat up to 16G of RAM with -j8 and proportionately > more if a higher job number has been configured. > > Torrent can eat up *a lot* of memory, depending how its caching has been set > up. > > Endless tabs on browsers will also eat up RAM, and/or place demand on swap. > Some addons can make things worse, as can a corrupt content-prefs.sqlite file > - see here: > > https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-uses-too-much-memory-or-cpu-resources > A long time ago, I found that a couple add-ons clashed. Thing is, I needed both. So, I created a new profile. Then came another, and another. I have one for things like placing orders, banking and other stuff I like to be secure. It also has that container thing which separates some random web browsing from things like banking. It has its own set of add-ons. Then I have one for things like watching youtube, grabbing videos from there and other video related sites to watch later or before they get censored and no longer available. It has different add-ons. Then I have another for torrent research. Each of those requires its own set of add-ons. By splitting them up tho, there's less chance of a clash. I like Firefox and the way I have it set up. As you point out tho, it can get memory hungry. Given I'm bad to leave tabs open, that makes it even worse. Sometimes a website causes problems of its own too. Just like recently in this thread, several people posted links about mobos and such. Most of those are still open. I'm trying to push that info into my brain, hoping it will remain there. Never does but I'm trying. ROFL Still, I'd like to be able to use Firefox, check email in Seamonkey and such even while doing OS updates. Right now, that's risky with this amount of memory. >> Either way, the age of my current rig is a big reason I want to build a >> new one. It's getting a lot of gray hairs. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > IMHO the good ol' FX-8350 with a boost of 4.2 GHz and dual channel memory > access is still a very respectable CPU for day to day desktop computing. > Sure, it is inefficient energy wise and it can't compete with high multicore/ > multithreaded CPUs and DDR4/5 RAM
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
On Wednesday, 17 April 2024 23:13:40 BST Dale wrote: > Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > > Am Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 01:18:39PM -0400 schrieb Rich Freeman: > >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:33 AM Dale wrote: > >>> Rich Freeman wrote: > All AM5 CPUs have GPUs, but in general motherboards with video outputs > do not require the CPU to have a GPU built in. The ports just don't > do anything if this is lacking, and you would need a dedicated GPU. [snip ...] > >> If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. I'd add to this, you could still play many games, especially older games using a modern APU. The integrated graphics capability is broadly comparable with the entry level discrete GPUs. For driving a couple of monitors and watching videos an APU is more than adequate, saves money on a graphics card and consumes less power. > >> Even if the CPU costs a tiny bit more, it will give you a free empty > >> 16x PCIe slot at whatever speed the CPU supports (v5 in this case - > >> which is as good as you can get right now). > > > > Not to mention a cut in power draw. > > > >>> I might add, simply right clicking on the desktop can take sometimes 20 > >>> or 30 seconds for the menu to pop up. Switching from one desktop to > >>> another can take several seconds, sometimes 8 or 10. This rig is > >>> getting slower. > > > > Wut. I am running plasma 6 on a Surface Go 1 whose Pentium Gold was slow > > even when it came out. It is half as fast as your 8350 and does not have > > such problems. > > Benchmark FX 8350: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=1780 > > Benchmark Pentium Gold: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=3300 > > > > You have NVidia, right? Did you try the other graphics driver (i.e. > > proprietary ←→ foss)? Do those delays disappear if you disable 3D effects > > with Shift+Alt+F12? > > I do have Nvidia and I use the Nvidia drivers. Thought about using the > ones in the kernel but just never did. I don't think it is the video > card tho. I think some of it is all the hard drives I have installed > and that they are busy. I run torrent software all the time. It stays > very busy. I actually set the connection speed to a little lower so > that I have some network speed that isn't being used so that when I do > something, I get some network bandwidth. Plus, there's that growing > software problem that always exists. Software rarely shrinks. > > >> That sounds like RAM but I couldn't say for sure. In any case a > >> modern system will definitely help. +1 In particular it sounds like I/O becomes saturated as swap ramps up. Also, fstrim, updatedb, rkhunter, etc., running in the background can make things worse. > > Well, is the RAM full? My 10 years old PC has 32 Gigs and still runs very > > smooth (with Intel integrated graphics). > > Generally, I use about 20 to 25GBs of RAM. Mostly, Seamonkey, Firefox > and the torrent software. An 8-core/thread CPU can eat up to 16G of RAM with -j8 and proportionately more if a higher job number has been configured. Torrent can eat up *a lot* of memory, depending how its caching has been set up. Endless tabs on browsers will also eat up RAM, and/or place demand on swap. Some addons can make things worse, as can a corrupt content-prefs.sqlite file - see here: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-uses-too-much-memory-or-cpu-resources > Either way, the age of my current rig is a big reason I want to build a > new one. It's getting a lot of gray hairs. > > Dale > > :-) :-) IMHO the good ol' FX-8350 with a boost of 4.2 GHz and dual channel memory access is still a very respectable CPU for day to day desktop computing. Sure, it is inefficient energy wise and it can't compete with high multicore/ multithreaded CPUs and DDR4/5 RAM modern architectures, if non-stop 24-7 parallel compiling were a user requirement, but for its age and architecture I would categorise it as a competent package. Most importantly, it comes already assembled and with zero additional cost! ;-) There were/are a lot corporates throwing out workstations and server spec towers, since many employees switched to working from home. It may be worth taking a look at those, if what you are missing at present is a faster/bigger NAS box. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-04-17, Dale wrote: > >> I still use Nvidia and use nvidia drivers. I to run into problems >> on occasion with drivers and kernels. When you switched from >> Nvidia, what did you switch too? Do you still use drivers you >> install or kernel drivers? > All in-tree kernel drivers for integrated GPUs: > > * Intel UHD Graphics 620 > * Intel HD Graphics 4000 > * Intel Xeon E3-1200 > * AMD Picasso Radeon Vega > > After I had to recycle my second perfectly functional NVidia card > simply because NVidia stopped driver support, I got fed up. I tried > the open-source nvidia drivers for those cards, but could never get > multiple screens to work. > >> How well does the video system work? In other words, plenty fast >> enough for what you do. > They're all fast enough for what I do (no heavy gaming, but I do play > with an RC flight simulator). All will drive at least two digital > monitors. The last machine that had an NVidia card removed is also > the oldest of the machines (Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H Intel i5-3570K w/ HD > 4000 graphics), and it's happily driving three monitors (1 HDMI, 1 > DVI, 1 DP). > > When running the flight-sim, the newest of them (the AMD/Radeon) is > noticeably smoother and runs at higher frame rates than the older Intel > GPUs. I didn't really have any complaints about the older ones, but I > don't expect a real gamer would have been satisfied with the Intel > ones. > >> I don't do any sort of heavy gaming. Since I have a nice game on my >> cell phone now, I play it almost all the time. I can't recall >> playing a game of solitaire on my computer in a long while. My >> biggest thing, two video ports, one for monitor and one for TV. >> Most TV videos aren't very high def but some are 1080P. That's all >> my TV can handle. > They all seem to handle HD video playback just fine. > > How many and what type of monitors can be driven is very much > dependent on the motherboard. > > -- > Grant > > > I've often thought of trying ATI or something but just never did. My video cards tend to age out too because of driver issues. From a cost perspective, I kinda get it. Still, I hate pitching a otherwise working card. Thanks for the info. More stuff to think on. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 01:18:39PM -0400 schrieb Rich Freeman: >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:33 AM Dale wrote: >>> Rich Freeman wrote: >>> All AM5 CPUs have GPUs, but in general motherboards with video outputs do not require the CPU to have a GPU built in. The ports just don't do anything if this is lacking, and you would need a dedicated GPU. >>> OK. I read that a few times. If I want to use the onboard video I have >>> to have a certain CPU that supports it? Do those have something so I >>> know which is which? Or do I read that as all the CPUs support onboard >>> video but if one plugs in a video card, that part of the CPU isn't >>> used? The last one makes more sense but asking to be sure. >> To use onboard graphics, you need a motherboard that supports it, and >> a CPU that supports it. I believe that internal graphics and an >> external GPU card can both be used at the same time. Note that >> internal graphics solutions typically steal some RAM from other system >> use, while an external GPU will have its own dedicated RAM (and those >> can also make use of internal RAM too). > You can usually set the amount of graphics memory in the BIOS, depending on > your need and RAM budget. > >> The 7600X has a built-in RDNA2 GPU. All the original Ryzen zen4 CPUs >> had GPU support, but it looks like they JUST announced a new line of >> consumer zen4 CPUs that don't have it - they all end in an F right >> now. > Yup. > G-series: big graphics for games n stuff, over 3 GFlops > F-Series: no graphics at all > rest: small graphics (around 0.8 GFlops max), ample for desktops and media > > X-Series: high performance > non-X: same as X, but with lower frequencies > > The X series are boosted to higher frequencies which give you a bit more > performance, but at the cost of disproportionally increased power > consumption and thus heat. They are simply run above the sweet spot in order > to get the longest bargraph in benchmarks. You can “simulate” a non-X by > running an X at a lower power target which can be set in the BIOS. In fact > once I have a Ryzen, I thing I might limit its frequency to a bit below > maximum just to avoid this inefficient region. > > But I’ll be buying a G anyways. Its architecture is different, as it is > basically a mobile chip in a desktop package. > > As to the qestion about 5/7/9 in the other mail: it’s just a tier number. > The more interesting is the 4-digit number. 600s and below are 6-core chips, > 700 and 800 have 8 cores, 900s have 12 cores or more. > > The thousands give away the generation. AM5 is denoted by 7xxx. (Though > there is another numbering scheme that does it quite differently, like > 7845H.) Good info. Clears up a little muddy water. >> In any case, if you google the CPU you're looking at it will tell you >> if it supports integrated graphics. > I also recommend Wikipedia. It has tables of all kinds of stuff. Including > all processors and their core features. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_4 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors > >> If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. >> Even if the CPU costs a tiny bit more, it will give you a free empty >> 16x PCIe slot at whatever speed the CPU supports (v5 in this case - >> which is as good as you can get right now). > Not to mention a cut in power draw. > >>> I might add, simply right clicking on the desktop can take sometimes 20 >>> or 30 seconds for the menu to pop up. Switching from one desktop to >>> another can take several seconds, sometimes 8 or 10. This rig is >>> getting slower. > Wut. I am running plasma 6 on a Surface Go 1 whose Pentium Gold was slow > even when it came out. It is half as fast as your 8350 and does not have > such problems. > Benchmark FX 8350: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=1780 > Benchmark Pentium Gold: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=3300 > > You have NVidia, right? Did you try the other graphics driver (i.e. > proprietary ←→ foss)? Do those delays disappear if you disable 3D effects > with Shift+Alt+F12? > I do have Nvidia and I use the Nvidia drivers. Thought about using the ones in the kernel but just never did. I don't think it is the video card tho. I think some of it is all the hard drives I have installed and that they are busy. I run torrent software all the time. It stays very busy. I actually set the connection speed to a little lower so that I have some network speed that isn't being used so that when I do something, I get some network bandwidth. Plus, there's that growing software problem that always exists. Software rarely shrinks. >> That sounds like RAM but I couldn't say for sure. In any case a >> modern system will definitely help. > Well, is the RAM full? My 10 years old PC has 32 Gigs and still runs very > smooth (with Intel integrated graphics). > Generally, I use about 20 to 25GBs of RAM. Mostly, Seamonkey,
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Rich Freeman wrote: > On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:33 AM Dale wrote: >> Rich Freeman wrote: >> >>> All AM5 CPUs have GPUs, but in general motherboards with video outputs >>> do not require the CPU to have a GPU built in. The ports just don't >>> do anything if this is lacking, and you would need a dedicated GPU. >>> >> OK. I read that a few times. If I want to use the onboard video I have >> to have a certain CPU that supports it? Do those have something so I >> know which is which? Or do I read that as all the CPUs support onboard >> video but if one plugs in a video card, that part of the CPU isn't >> used? The last one makes more sense but asking to be sure. > To use onboard graphics, you need a motherboard that supports it, and > a CPU that supports it. I believe that internal graphics and an > external GPU card can both be used at the same time. Note that > internal graphics solutions typically steal some RAM from other system > use, while an external GPU will have its own dedicated RAM (and those > can also make use of internal RAM too). > > The 7600X has a built-in RDNA2 GPU. All the original Ryzen zen4 CPUs > had GPU support, but it looks like they JUST announced a new line of > consumer zen4 CPUs that don't have it - they all end in an F right > now. > > In any case, if you google the CPU you're looking at it will tell you > if it supports integrated graphics. Most better stores/etc have > filters for this feature as well (places like Newegg or PCPartPicker > or whatever). > > If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. > Even if the CPU costs a tiny bit more, it will give you a free empty > 16x PCIe slot at whatever speed the CPU supports (v5 in this case - > which is as good as you can get right now). > Sounds good. So right now, if I buy a mobo with a couple video ports, any current CPU will make the integrated video work. There is some CPUs in the works that don't so double check first, just to be sure. ;-) >> I might add, simply right clicking on the desktop can take sometimes 20 >> or 30 seconds for the menu to pop up. Switching from one desktop to >> another can take several seconds, sometimes 8 or 10. This rig is >> getting slower. Actually, the software is just getting bigger. You get >> my meaning tho. I bet the old KDE3 would be blazingly fast compared to >> the rig I ran it on originally. > That sounds like RAM but I couldn't say for sure. In any case a > modern system will definitely help. When I first built this rig, it was very quick to respond to anything I did. Some could be all the hard drives I have installed here, 10 I think right now, but I think it just takes longer for the software to do its thing because all that software has gotten larger over the years. The same thing happened to my old original rig, AMD 2500+ single core with I think a few gigabytes of ram. The software just outgrew the ability of the hardware to keep up. I'm thinking of moving my torrent software to the NAS box. That thing takes a good bit of bandwidth itself. It keeps the drives and network busy. That can't help any. >> I'd get 32GBs at first. Maybe a month or so later get another 32GB. >> That'll get me 64Gbs. Later on, a good sale maybe, buy another 32GB or >> a 64GB set and max it out. > You definitely want to match the timings, and you probably want to > match the sticks themselves. Also, you generally need to be mindful > of how many channels you're occupying, though as I understand it DDR5 > is essentially natively dual channel. If you just stick one DDR4 > stick in a system it will not perform as well as two sticks of half > the size. I forget the gory details but I believe it comes down to > the timings of switching between two different channels vs moving > around within a single one. DDR RAM timings get really confusing, and > it comes down to the fact that addresses are basically grouped in > various ways and randomly seeking from one address to another can take > a different amount of time depending on how the new address is related > to the address you last read. The idea of "seeking" with RAM may seem > odd, but recent memory technologies are a bit like storage, and they > are accessed in a semi-serial manner. Essentially the latencies and > transfer rates are such that even dynamic RAM chips are too slow to > work in the conventional sense. I'm guessing it gets into a lot of > gory details with reactances and so on, and just wiring up every > memory cell in parallel like in the old days would slow down all the > voltage transitions. I used a memory finder tool to find what fits that ASUS mobo. It takes 32GB sticks IN PAIRS. Also, according to one manufacturer, they come in matched sets. A 64GB set costs almost $200. Still, I can make it on 64GB for a while. Add another set later. I got the impression that installing only one stick might not work to well. >> I've looked at server type boards. I'd like to have one.
[gentoo-user] Re: NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
On 2024-04-17, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: >> If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. >> Even if the CPU costs a tiny bit more, it will give you a free empty >> 16x PCIe slot at whatever speed the CPU supports (v5 in this case - >> which is as good as you can get right now). > > Not to mention a cut in power draw. And one fewer fan to listen to. [I was also pretty annoyed with NVidia when they stopped offering fanless Quadro boards. I'm a big fan of fanless]
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On 2024-04-17, Dale wrote: > I still use Nvidia and use nvidia drivers. I to run into problems > on occasion with drivers and kernels. When you switched from > Nvidia, what did you switch too? Do you still use drivers you > install or kernel drivers? All in-tree kernel drivers for integrated GPUs: * Intel UHD Graphics 620 * Intel HD Graphics 4000 * Intel Xeon E3-1200 * AMD Picasso Radeon Vega After I had to recycle my second perfectly functional NVidia card simply because NVidia stopped driver support, I got fed up. I tried the open-source nvidia drivers for those cards, but could never get multiple screens to work. > How well does the video system work? In other words, plenty fast > enough for what you do. They're all fast enough for what I do (no heavy gaming, but I do play with an RC flight simulator). All will drive at least two digital monitors. The last machine that had an NVidia card removed is also the oldest of the machines (Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H Intel i5-3570K w/ HD 4000 graphics), and it's happily driving three monitors (1 HDMI, 1 DVI, 1 DP). When running the flight-sim, the newest of them (the AMD/Radeon) is noticeably smoother and runs at higher frame rates than the older Intel GPUs. I didn't really have any complaints about the older ones, but I don't expect a real gamer would have been satisfied with the Intel ones. > I don't do any sort of heavy gaming. Since I have a nice game on my > cell phone now, I play it almost all the time. I can't recall > playing a game of solitaire on my computer in a long while. My > biggest thing, two video ports, one for monitor and one for TV. > Most TV videos aren't very high def but some are 1080P. That's all > my TV can handle. They all seem to handle HD video playback just fine. How many and what type of monitors can be driven is very much dependent on the motherboard. -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Meik Frischke wrote: > Am 2024-04-17 12:33, schrieb Dale: >> I found a benchmark website that compares the two. Link below. It >> claims about 80% faster. In some ways, twice as fast. Sometimes those >> bench tests don't reflect the real world to well. Most of them seem to >> test gaming speeds which isn't of much use anyway for me. I'm more >> about compiling and such. Just wondering how much speed difference this >> would make. Maybe someone reading this did a similar upgrade or has >> seen both in action. If so, post and share your thoughts. >> > > Hi Dale, > > since Moore's Law isn't quite dead yet there is a significant > performance uplift in newer processor generations, especially with the > smaller 5nm process nodes of recent, after some years of stagnation at > 14nm (your FX-8350 was manufactured at 32nm). With each process shrink > (32nm -> 28nm -> 22 nm -> 14nm -> 10nm -> 7nm -> 5nm) new CPUs can > deliver higher performance with the same power consumption or achieve > similar performance levels with lower power consumption. > Looking at the open-benchmarking default configuration kernel compile > benchmark (pts/build-linux-kernel-1.15.0), the Ryzen 5 7600 (slower > non-X) took ~101s to compile the kernel (based on 28 submitted > results) while the FX-8350 took ~422s for the same task (based on 4 > submissions) [1]. Unlike gaming, compiling tends to scale quite well > with core count and for the gentoo use-case the measured performance > difference is in most cases similar for different packages. There are > many influencing factors for benchmarking like running kernel version, > activated options and mitigations so YMMV, but you can test it > yourself: there are ebuilds for the phoronix-benchmark-suite in > various overlays [2]. You can perform the benchmark with > $(phoronix-test-suite benchmark pts/build-linux-kernel-1.15.0) with > the "defconfig" test configuration option. > > Cheers, > Meik > > [1] > https://openbenchmarking.org/test/pts/build-linux-kernel=9cdcd82c9c47af9df17263e4312f634338dbf476#metrics > [2] https://gpo.zugaina.org/app-benchmarks/phoronix-test-suite > > If one just compares the kernel compile time, about 4 times faster. I'm not expecting the accuracy one needs to build a space ship. ;-) That's a pretty good way to measure because with Gentoo, compiling a kernel is a very common thing. As you said, it scales well. Compiling gcc would be a good one to if they have default USE flags. Obviously if one system has a lot of USE flags enabled and another is the bare minimum, there will be a difference not related to CPU speed. Rich made a good point too. Speed isn't just influenced by the CPU. Memory speed and even the speed of accessing data drive, spinning rust, SSD or whatever, also affects a system. When I get this new rig built and you see me post about it, remind me and I'll install that benchmark test and send in the results. I like doing things like that because it helps others too. I just wish there was a centralized place for them all. Right now, there are likely dozens of them and each with their own method. Thanks for that info. I'm making progress and planning a way to purchase all this. It's still not cheap but cheaper than it was before I found out I could get a cheaper CPU and upgrade later. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Am Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 01:18:39PM -0400 schrieb Rich Freeman: > On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:33 AM Dale wrote: > > > > Rich Freeman wrote: > > > > > All AM5 CPUs have GPUs, but in general motherboards with video outputs > > > do not require the CPU to have a GPU built in. The ports just don't > > > do anything if this is lacking, and you would need a dedicated GPU. > > > > > > > OK. I read that a few times. If I want to use the onboard video I have > > to have a certain CPU that supports it? Do those have something so I > > know which is which? Or do I read that as all the CPUs support onboard > > video but if one plugs in a video card, that part of the CPU isn't > > used? The last one makes more sense but asking to be sure. > > To use onboard graphics, you need a motherboard that supports it, and > a CPU that supports it. I believe that internal graphics and an > external GPU card can both be used at the same time. Note that > internal graphics solutions typically steal some RAM from other system > use, while an external GPU will have its own dedicated RAM (and those > can also make use of internal RAM too). You can usually set the amount of graphics memory in the BIOS, depending on your need and RAM budget. > The 7600X has a built-in RDNA2 GPU. All the original Ryzen zen4 CPUs > had GPU support, but it looks like they JUST announced a new line of > consumer zen4 CPUs that don't have it - they all end in an F right > now. Yup. G-series: big graphics for games n stuff, over 3 GFlops F-Series: no graphics at all rest: small graphics (around 0.8 GFlops max), ample for desktops and media X-Series: high performance non-X: same as X, but with lower frequencies The X series are boosted to higher frequencies which give you a bit more performance, but at the cost of disproportionally increased power consumption and thus heat. They are simply run above the sweet spot in order to get the longest bargraph in benchmarks. You can “simulate” a non-X by running an X at a lower power target which can be set in the BIOS. In fact once I have a Ryzen, I thing I might limit its frequency to a bit below maximum just to avoid this inefficient region. But I’ll be buying a G anyways. Its architecture is different, as it is basically a mobile chip in a desktop package. As to the qestion about 5/7/9 in the other mail: it’s just a tier number. The more interesting is the 4-digit number. 600s and below are 6-core chips, 700 and 800 have 8 cores, 900s have 12 cores or more. The thousands give away the generation. AM5 is denoted by 7xxx. (Though there is another numbering scheme that does it quite differently, like 7845H.) > In any case, if you google the CPU you're looking at it will tell you > if it supports integrated graphics. I also recommend Wikipedia. It has tables of all kinds of stuff. Including all processors and their core features. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors > If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. > Even if the CPU costs a tiny bit more, it will give you a free empty > 16x PCIe slot at whatever speed the CPU supports (v5 in this case - > which is as good as you can get right now). Not to mention a cut in power draw. > > I might add, simply right clicking on the desktop can take sometimes 20 > > or 30 seconds for the menu to pop up. Switching from one desktop to > > another can take several seconds, sometimes 8 or 10. This rig is > > getting slower. Wut. I am running plasma 6 on a Surface Go 1 whose Pentium Gold was slow even when it came out. It is half as fast as your 8350 and does not have such problems. Benchmark FX 8350: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=1780 Benchmark Pentium Gold: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=3300 You have NVidia, right? Did you try the other graphics driver (i.e. proprietary ←→ foss)? Do those delays disappear if you disable 3D effects with Shift+Alt+F12? > That sounds like RAM but I couldn't say for sure. In any case a > modern system will definitely help. Well, is the RAM full? My 10 years old PC has 32 Gigs and still runs very smooth (with Intel integrated graphics). > > Given the new rig can have 128GBs, I assume it comes in 32GB sticks. > > Consumer DDR5 seems to come as large as 48GB, though that seems like > an odd size. Actually, my product search page finds sticks with up to 96 GB. I believe the 48 size was introduced because for those to whom 32 was too small, 64 was too expensive. DDR5 still is relatively pricey due to its higher electrical requirements. -- Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’ Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. It’s quiet in the shadow, because you can’t hear the light. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Grant Edwards wrote: > > 2) Lack of support for old hardware when running a newer kernels. > > I used to run into this when running nvidia-drivers. > Gentoo-sources would mark a new kernel stable, but my video board > would not be supported by nvidia-drivers versions that were > supported for that new stable kernel. I would mask newer kernels > until and run older "longterm" kernels as long as I could. I would > evenually be forced to buy a new video card. After going through > that cycle a couple times, I swore off NVidia video cards and > life's been much eaiser since. > I still use Nvidia and use nvidia drivers. I to run into problems on occasion with drivers and kernels. When you switched from Nvidia, what did you switch too? Do you still use drivers you install or kernel drivers? How well does the video system work? In other words, plenty fast enough for what you do. I don't do any sort of heavy gaming. Since I have a nice game on my cell phone now, I play it almost all the time. I can't recall playing a game of solitaire on my computer in a long while. My biggest thing, two video ports, one for monitor and one for TV. Most TV videos aren't very high def but some are 1080P. That's all my TV can handle. Just exploring options. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On 2024-04-17, Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > Grant, > > On Wednesday, 2024-04-17 14:11:21 -, you wrote: > >> ... >> If what you want is access to all upstream longeterm kernel versions, >> then you should be using sys-kernel/vanilla-sources. > > I was not aware of this package. Excatly what could come in handy, if > everything else fails. Thank you for that pointer :-) Just be aware that gentoo-sources contains an "extra" set of gentoo-specific patches. So version x.y.z of gentoo-sources isn't identical to version x.y.z of vanilla-sources. https://dev.gentoo.org/~mpagano/genpatches/ -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On 17/04/2024 10:10, Michael wrote: I am not sure the assumption "... aging hardware possibly can less and less cope with newer and newer kernels" is correct. As already mentioned newer kernels have both security and bug fixes. As long as you stick with stable gentoo-sources you'll have these in your system. Later kernels also come with additional kernel drivers for new(er) hardware. You may not need/want these drivers if you do not run the latest hardware. Using 'make oldconfig' allows you to exclude such new drivers, but include new security options and/or functionality as desired. Given that I remember the announcement that the linux kernel's memory requirements had increased to 6MB - in the days when Fedora et al demanded gigabytes simply to be able to run - I think almost any ancient hardware you can actually buy will be able to run the linux kernel no probs. You might have difficulty compiling it, though, now 386 support has been pretty much dropped from the toolchain. Have they dropped i686 as well? Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Am 2024-04-17 12:33, schrieb Dale: I found a benchmark website that compares the two. Link below. It claims about 80% faster. In some ways, twice as fast. Sometimes those bench tests don't reflect the real world to well. Most of them seem to test gaming speeds which isn't of much use anyway for me. I'm more about compiling and such. Just wondering how much speed difference this would make. Maybe someone reading this did a similar upgrade or has seen both in action. If so, post and share your thoughts. Hi Dale, since Moore's Law isn't quite dead yet there is a significant performance uplift in newer processor generations, especially with the smaller 5nm process nodes of recent, after some years of stagnation at 14nm (your FX-8350 was manufactured at 32nm). With each process shrink (32nm -> 28nm -> 22 nm -> 14nm -> 10nm -> 7nm -> 5nm) new CPUs can deliver higher performance with the same power consumption or achieve similar performance levels with lower power consumption. Looking at the open-benchmarking default configuration kernel compile benchmark (pts/build-linux-kernel-1.15.0), the Ryzen 5 7600 (slower non-X) took ~101s to compile the kernel (based on 28 submitted results) while the FX-8350 took ~422s for the same task (based on 4 submissions) [1]. Unlike gaming, compiling tends to scale quite well with core count and for the gentoo use-case the measured performance difference is in most cases similar for different packages. There are many influencing factors for benchmarking like running kernel version, activated options and mitigations so YMMV, but you can test it yourself: there are ebuilds for the phoronix-benchmark-suite in various overlays [2]. You can perform the benchmark with $(phoronix-test-suite benchmark pts/build-linux-kernel-1.15.0) with the "defconfig" test configuration option. Cheers, Meik [1] https://openbenchmarking.org/test/pts/build-linux-kernel=9cdcd82c9c47af9df17263e4312f634338dbf476#metrics [2] https://gpo.zugaina.org/app-benchmarks/phoronix-test-suite
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:33 AM Dale wrote: > > Rich Freeman wrote: > > > All AM5 CPUs have GPUs, but in general motherboards with video outputs > > do not require the CPU to have a GPU built in. The ports just don't > > do anything if this is lacking, and you would need a dedicated GPU. > > > > OK. I read that a few times. If I want to use the onboard video I have > to have a certain CPU that supports it? Do those have something so I > know which is which? Or do I read that as all the CPUs support onboard > video but if one plugs in a video card, that part of the CPU isn't > used? The last one makes more sense but asking to be sure. To use onboard graphics, you need a motherboard that supports it, and a CPU that supports it. I believe that internal graphics and an external GPU card can both be used at the same time. Note that internal graphics solutions typically steal some RAM from other system use, while an external GPU will have its own dedicated RAM (and those can also make use of internal RAM too). The 7600X has a built-in RDNA2 GPU. All the original Ryzen zen4 CPUs had GPU support, but it looks like they JUST announced a new line of consumer zen4 CPUs that don't have it - they all end in an F right now. In any case, if you google the CPU you're looking at it will tell you if it supports integrated graphics. Most better stores/etc have filters for this feature as well (places like Newegg or PCPartPicker or whatever). If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. Even if the CPU costs a tiny bit more, it will give you a free empty 16x PCIe slot at whatever speed the CPU supports (v5 in this case - which is as good as you can get right now). > That could mean a slight price drop for the things I'm looking at then. > One can hope. Right??? Everything comes down in price eventually... > > I might add, simply right clicking on the desktop can take sometimes 20 > or 30 seconds for the menu to pop up. Switching from one desktop to > another can take several seconds, sometimes 8 or 10. This rig is > getting slower. Actually, the software is just getting bigger. You get > my meaning tho. I bet the old KDE3 would be blazingly fast compared to > the rig I ran it on originally. That sounds like RAM but I couldn't say for sure. In any case a modern system will definitely help. > Given the new rig can have 128GBs, I assume it comes in 32GB sticks. Consumer DDR5 seems to come as large as 48GB, though that seems like an odd size. > I'd get 32GBs at first. Maybe a month or so later get another 32GB. > That'll get me 64Gbs. Later on, a good sale maybe, buy another 32GB or > a 64GB set and max it out. You definitely want to match the timings, and you probably want to match the sticks themselves. Also, you generally need to be mindful of how many channels you're occupying, though as I understand it DDR5 is essentially natively dual channel. If you just stick one DDR4 stick in a system it will not perform as well as two sticks of half the size. I forget the gory details but I believe it comes down to the timings of switching between two different channels vs moving around within a single one. DDR RAM timings get really confusing, and it comes down to the fact that addresses are basically grouped in various ways and randomly seeking from one address to another can take a different amount of time depending on how the new address is related to the address you last read. The idea of "seeking" with RAM may seem odd, but recent memory technologies are a bit like storage, and they are accessed in a semi-serial manner. Essentially the latencies and transfer rates are such that even dynamic RAM chips are too slow to work in the conventional sense. I'm guessing it gets into a lot of gory details with reactances and so on, and just wiring up every memory cell in parallel like in the old days would slow down all the voltage transitions. > I've looked at server type boards. I'd like to have one. I'd like one > that has SAS ports. So, I don't really spend much time looking at them, but I'm guessing SAS is fairly rare on the motherboards themselves. They probably almost always have an HBA/RAID controller in a PCIe slot. You can put the same cards in any PC, but of course you're just going to struggle to have a slot free. You can always use a riser or something to cram an HBA into a slot that is too small for it, but then you're going to suffer reduced performance. For just a few spinning disks though it probably won't matter. Really though I feel like the trend is towards NVMe and that gets into a whole different world. U.2 allows either SAS or PCIe over the bus, and there are HBAs that will handle both. Or if you only want NVMe it looks like you can use bifurcation-based solutions to more cheaply break slots out. I'm kinda thinking about going that direction when I expand my Ceph cluster. There are very nice NVMe server designs that can get 24 drives into 2U or
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Grant, On Wednesday, 2024-04-17 14:11:21 -, you wrote: > ... > If what you want is access to all upstream longeterm kernel versions, > then you should be using sys-kernel/vanilla-sources. I was not aware of this package. Excatly what could come in handy, if everything else fails. Thank you for that pointer :-) Sincerely, Rainer
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Michael, On Wednesday, 2024-04-17 10:10:56 +0100, you wrote: > On Tuesday, 16 April 2024 20:26:25 BST Grant Edwards wrote: > > On 2024-04-16, Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > > ... > > > But, to get back to the beginning of this discussion: if there is a > > > risk that my aging hardware possibly can less and less cope with > > > newer and newer kernels, should I put something like > > > > > >>=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-6.7.0 > > > > > > into file "package.mask" to stay with "longterm" 6.6.* kernels? > > ... > > I am not sure the assumption "... aging hardware possibly can less and less > cope with newer and newer kernels" is correct. As already mentioned newer > kernels have both security and bug fixes. As long as you stick with stable > gentoo-sources you'll have these in your system. But since the 6.6.* kernel is LTS, security and bug fixes will be back- ported into it and all is well. And if this can't be done for some rea- son or other, I can still cautiously advance my entry in file "package. mask" to the next LTS kernel. > ... > PS. Regarding your earlier question about different make *config commands and > their meaning you can check the latest make help page: > > $ cd /usr/src/linux > $ make help Done. Again learned something. Thanks a lot :-) Sincerely, Rainer
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On 2024-04-17, Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > Grant, > > On Tuesday, 2024-04-16 19:26:25 -, you wrote: > >> ... >> That means that all gentoo-sources stable kernels are "longterm" >> kernel versions on kernel.org. It does not mean that all "longterm" >> kernel versions from kernel.org are available as "stable" in >> gentoo-sources. >> >> It is a statement that "gentoo-sources stable" is a subset of >> "kernel.org longterm". > > This sort of deteriorates into a debate about words rather than meanings I'm sorry to have caused "deterioration" by trying to explain the statement you said a) you didn't understand and b) was contridicted by the contents of the gentoo portage tree. The statement was not contridicted by what you pointed out. > without explaining HOW LONG such a series of related kernels are > main- tained and provided. That was not the subject of the statement you claimed was wrong which I then tried to explain. The gentoo-sources versions of upstream "longterm" kernels are maintained and provided for as long as the volunteers who do the work maintain and provide them. > After all, "longterm" or "LTS" suggest that these lines of > developement are less short-lived than others. They are. Upstream longterm kernel versions get updates for several years longer than versions that are not longterm. > To give an ex- ample: the oldest "longterm" kernels listed on > "kernel.org" are 4.19.*, 5.4.* and 5.10.*. Of these only 5.10.* is > still available from Gentoo. You should certainly demand that all of the money you paid for gentoo-sources be refunded. It takes work to maintain gentoo-sources ebuilds. I'm sure if you volunteered to maintain ebuilds for the older longterm kernels, the help would be happily accepted. Free clue: It's _hard_work_ to support old verions of things (especially kernels). They usually won't build with recent tools and won't run on recent hardware or with recent versions of other software. You often have to keep around entire virtual machines that have old tools and utilities. If what you want is access to all upstream longeterm kernel versions, then you should be using sys-kernel/vanilla-sources. > So what time span are we talking about when we say "LTS Gentoo > kernel"? We don't say that. "LTS" and "longterm" are not Gentoo designations, they are kernel.org designations. Gentoo has "stable" and "testing". Only upstream "longterm" kernel versions get marked as "stable" in gentoo-sources. They are then supported for as long as somebody supports them. > Roughly four, three or two years? And why is the support provided > by Gentoo significantly shorter than that by "kernel.org"? Because you're not helping with the support? -- Grant
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On 2024-04-17, Michael wrote: >> > But, to get back to the beginning of this discussion: if there is a >> > risk that my aging hardware possibly can less and less cope with >> > newer and newer kernels, should I put something like >> > >> >>=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-6.7.0 >> > >> > into file "package.mask" to stay with "longterm" 6.6.* kernels? >> >> Yes: if you want to avoid getting upgraded to 6.8 when it gets >> kernel.org "longterm" status and gentoo-sources "stable" status, then >> a statement like that in in package.mask will keep you on >> gentoo-sources 6.6 kernels (which are "longterm" on kernel.org). > I am not sure the assumption "... aging hardware possibly can less and less > cope with newer and newer kernels" is correct. Good point. My "yes" was in response to a question of the form "if X is true, should I do Y". I did not attempt to address the likelyhood that X was actually ture, only whether Y was appropriate if X was true. > As already mentioned newer kernels have both security and bug fixes. > As long as you stick with stable gentoo-sources you'll have these in > your system. Later kernels also come with additional kernel drivers > for new(er) hardware. You may not need/want these drivers if you do > not run the latest hardware. Using 'make oldconfig' allows you to > exclude such new drivers, but include new security options and/or > functionality as desired. > > It can happen for new code to introduce some software regression. The usual worries with running newer kernels on older hardware are: 1) Performance degradation when upgrading kernels on older hardware. On one embedded project I work with we're still running a 2.6 kernel because network throughput drops by 25-30% when we upgrade to 3.x kernels. There's nothing "wrong" with those 3.x kernels, they're just bigger and significantly slower. [Even when built with a config that's as identical to the 2.6 kernels as possible.] 2) Lack of support for old hardware when running a newer kernels. I used to run into this when running nvidia-drivers. Gentoo-sources would mark a new kernel stable, but my video board would not be supported by nvidia-drivers versions that were supported for that new stable kernel. I would mask newer kernels until and run older "longterm" kernels as long as I could. I would evenually be forced to buy a new video card. After going through that cycle a couple times, I swore off NVidia video cards and life's been much eaiser since.
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Rich Freeman wrote: > On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 6:33 AM Dale wrote: >> On the AM5 link, I found a mobo that I kinda like. I still wish it had >> more PCIe slots tho. > AM5 has 28 PCIe lanes. Anything above that comes from a switch on the > motherboard. > > 0.1% of the population cares about having anything on their > motherboard besides a 16x slot for the GPU. So, that's what all the > cheaper boards deliver these days. The higher end boards often have a > switch and will deliver extra lanes, and MAYBE those will go into > another PCIe slot (probably not wired for 16x but it might have that > form factor), and more often those go into additional M.2 slots and > USB3 ports. (USB3 is very high bandwidth, especially later > generations, and eats up PCIe lanes as a result.) > > Keep in mind those 28 v5 lanes have the bandwidth of over 100 v3 > lanes, which is part of why the counts are being reduced. The problem > is that hardware to do that conversion is kinda niche right now. It > is much easier to bifurcate a larger slot, but that doesn't buy you > more lanes. > >> It supports not only the Ryzen 9 >> series but also supports Ryzen 5 series. > That is because the 9 and 5 are branding and basically convey no > information at all besides the price point. > > The Ryzen 7 1700X has about half the performance of the Ryzen 5 7600X, > and that would be because the first chip came out in 2017, and the > second came out in 2022 and is three generations newer. > > Likewise the intel branding of "i3" or "i7" and so on also conveys no > information beyond the general price level they were introduced at. > You can expect the bigger numbers to offer more performance/features > than the smaller ones OF THE SAME GENERATION. The same branding keeps > getting re-applied to later generations of chips, and IMO it is > intentionally confusing. > >> I looked up the Ryzen 5 7600X >> and 8600G. I think the X has no video and the G has video support. > Both have onboard graphics. The G designates zen1-3 chips with a GPU > built in, and all zen4 CPUs have this as a standard feature. The > 7600X is zen4. > > See what I mean about the branding getting confusing? > Yep. I see that. It's easy enough to confuse me. Having something that is inherently confusing just makes it worse. I think some manufacturers do this sort of thing on purpose. Not just computer stuff either. >> I >> haven't researched yet to see if the mobo requires the G since it has >> video ports, two to be more precise which is the minimum I need. > All AM5 CPUs have GPUs, but in general motherboards with video outputs > do not require the CPU to have a GPU built in. The ports just don't > do anything if this is lacking, and you would need a dedicated GPU. > OK. I read that a few times. If I want to use the onboard video I have to have a certain CPU that supports it? Do those have something so I know which is which? Or do I read that as all the CPUs support onboard video but if one plugs in a video card, that part of the CPU isn't used? The last one makes more sense but asking to be sure. >> Anyway, those two CPUs are cheaper than the Ryzen 9 I was looking at. I >> could upgrade later on as prices drop. I'm sure a new Ryzen is lurking >> around the corner. > Zen5 is supposedly coming out later this year. It will be very > expensive. Zen4 is still kinda expensive I believe though I haven't > gone looking recently at prices. I have a zen4 system and it was > expensive (particularly the motherboard, and the DDR5 is more > expensive, and if you want NVMe that does v5 that is more expensive as > well). That could mean a slight price drop for the things I'm looking at then. One can hope. Right??? > > > I have a FX-8350 8 core CPU now. Would the Ryzen 5's mentioned above be >> a good bit faster, a lot, a whole lot? > So, that very much depends on what you're doing. > > Single-thread performance of that 7600X is 2-3x faster. Total > performance is almost 5x faster. The 7600X will use moderately less > power at full load, and I'm guessing WAY less power at less than full > load. It will also have much better performance than those numbers > reflect for very short bursts of work, since modern CPUs can boost. > > That's just pure CPU performance. > > The DDR5 performance of the recent CPU is MUCH better than that of the > DDR3 you're using now. Your old motherboard might be PCIe v2 (I think > the controller for that was on the motherboard back then?). If so > each lane delivers 8x more bandwidth on the recent CPU, which matters > a great deal for graphics, or for NVMe performance if you're using an > NVMe that supports it and have a workload that benefits from it. > > Gaming tends to be a workload that benefits the most from all of these > factors. If your system is just acting as a NAS and all the storage > is on hard drives, I'm guessing you won't see much of a difference at > all, except maybe in boot time, especially if you put
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 6:33 AM Dale wrote: > > On the AM5 link, I found a mobo that I kinda like. I still wish it had > more PCIe slots tho. AM5 has 28 PCIe lanes. Anything above that comes from a switch on the motherboard. 0.1% of the population cares about having anything on their motherboard besides a 16x slot for the GPU. So, that's what all the cheaper boards deliver these days. The higher end boards often have a switch and will deliver extra lanes, and MAYBE those will go into another PCIe slot (probably not wired for 16x but it might have that form factor), and more often those go into additional M.2 slots and USB3 ports. (USB3 is very high bandwidth, especially later generations, and eats up PCIe lanes as a result.) Keep in mind those 28 v5 lanes have the bandwidth of over 100 v3 lanes, which is part of why the counts are being reduced. The problem is that hardware to do that conversion is kinda niche right now. It is much easier to bifurcate a larger slot, but that doesn't buy you more lanes. > It supports not only the Ryzen 9 > series but also supports Ryzen 5 series. That is because the 9 and 5 are branding and basically convey no information at all besides the price point. The Ryzen 7 1700X has about half the performance of the Ryzen 5 7600X, and that would be because the first chip came out in 2017, and the second came out in 2022 and is three generations newer. Likewise the intel branding of "i3" or "i7" and so on also conveys no information beyond the general price level they were introduced at. You can expect the bigger numbers to offer more performance/features than the smaller ones OF THE SAME GENERATION. The same branding keeps getting re-applied to later generations of chips, and IMO it is intentionally confusing. > I looked up the Ryzen 5 7600X > and 8600G. I think the X has no video and the G has video support. Both have onboard graphics. The G designates zen1-3 chips with a GPU built in, and all zen4 CPUs have this as a standard feature. The 7600X is zen4. See what I mean about the branding getting confusing? > I > haven't researched yet to see if the mobo requires the G since it has > video ports, two to be more precise which is the minimum I need. All AM5 CPUs have GPUs, but in general motherboards with video outputs do not require the CPU to have a GPU built in. The ports just don't do anything if this is lacking, and you would need a dedicated GPU. > Anyway, those two CPUs are cheaper than the Ryzen 9 I was looking at. I > could upgrade later on as prices drop. I'm sure a new Ryzen is lurking > around the corner. Zen5 is supposedly coming out later this year. It will be very expensive. Zen4 is still kinda expensive I believe though I haven't gone looking recently at prices. I have a zen4 system and it was expensive (particularly the motherboard, and the DDR5 is more expensive, and if you want NVMe that does v5 that is more expensive as well). > I have a FX-8350 8 core CPU now. Would the Ryzen 5's mentioned above be > a good bit faster, a lot, a whole lot? So, that very much depends on what you're doing. Single-thread performance of that 7600X is 2-3x faster. Total performance is almost 5x faster. The 7600X will use moderately less power at full load, and I'm guessing WAY less power at less than full load. It will also have much better performance than those numbers reflect for very short bursts of work, since modern CPUs can boost. That's just pure CPU performance. The DDR5 performance of the recent CPU is MUCH better than that of the DDR3 you're using now. Your old motherboard might be PCIe v2 (I think the controller for that was on the motherboard back then?). If so each lane delivers 8x more bandwidth on the recent CPU, which matters a great deal for graphics, or for NVMe performance if you're using an NVMe that supports it and have a workload that benefits from it. Gaming tends to be a workload that benefits the most from all of these factors. If your system is just acting as a NAS and all the storage is on hard drives, I'm guessing you won't see much of a difference at all, except maybe in boot time, especially if you put the OS on an NVMe. If this is just for your NAS I would not drop all that money on zen4, let alone zen5. I'd look for something older, possibly used, that is way cheaper. > Still, I need more memory too. 32GBs just isn't much when running > Seamonkey, three Firefox profiles and torrent software. Ok, if this is for a desktop you'll benefit more from a newer CPU. RAM is really expensive though these days. Getting something off-lease is going to save you a fortune as the RAM is practically free in those. You can get something with 32GB of DDR4 for $150 or less in a SFF PC. > I'm not running > out but at times, it's using a lot of it. I was hoping for a mobo that > would handle more than 128GB but that is a lot of memory. Any recent motherboard will handle 128GB. You'll just need to use large DIMMs as
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On Wednesday, 17 April 2024 11:37:04 BST Dr Rainer Woitok wrote:
> Grant,
>
> On Tuesday, 2024-04-16 19:26:25 -, you wrote:
> > ...
> > That means that all gentoo-sources stable kernels are "longterm"
> > kernel versions on kernel.org. It does not mean that all "longterm"
> > kernel versions from kernel.org are available as "stable" in
> > gentoo-sources.
> >
> > It is a statement that "gentoo-sources stable" is a subset of
> > "kernel.org longterm".
>
> This sort of deteriorates into a debate about words rather than meanings
> without explaining HOW LONG such a series of related kernels are main-
> tained and provided. After all, "longterm" or "LTS" suggest that these
> lines of developement are less short-lived than others. To give an ex-
> ample: the oldest "longterm" kernels listed on "kernel.org" are 4.19.*,
> 5.4.* and 5.10.*. Of these only 5.10.* is still available from Gentoo.
>
> Digging through my Gentoo installation logs, I can see that 4.19.72 was
> one of the first kernels I built myself. This was somewhen in the mid-
> dle of 2019, that is, not yet five years back. And this kernel line has
> already vanished from Gentoo. So what time span are we talking about
> when we say "LTS Gentoo kernel"? Roughly four, three or two years? And
> why is the support provided by Gentoo significantly shorter than that by
> "kernel.org"?
>
> Sincerely,
> Rainer
LTS kernels were being supported for ~6 years, although the projected EOL I
see here indicates later LTS releases may not be supported for as long:
https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html
The stable gentoo-sources are tree cleaned more frequently, so the oldest
stable release for amd64 in portage is now 5.10.212:
$ eix gentoo-sources
[I] sys-kernel/gentoo-sources
Available versions:
(5.10.208) *5.10.208^bs
(5.10.212) 5.10.212^bs
(5.10.213) ~5.10.213^bs
(5.10.214) ~5.10.214^bs
(5.10.215) ~5.10.215^bs
(5.15.147) *5.15.147^bs
(5.15.151) 5.15.151^bs
(5.15.152) ~5.15.152^bs
(5.15.153) ~5.15.153^bs
(5.15.154) ~5.15.154^bs
(5.15.155) ~5.15.155^bs
(6.1.74) *6.1.74^bs
(6.1.81) 6.1.81^bs
(6.1.83) ~6.1.83^bs
(6.1.84) ~6.1.84^bs
(6.1.85) ~6.1.85^bs
(6.1.86) ~6.1.86^bs
(6.6.13) *6.6.13^bs
(6.6.21) 6.6.21^bs
(6.6.24) ~6.6.24^bs
(6.6.25) ~6.6.25^bs
(6.6.26) ~6.6.26^bs
(6.6.26-r1) ~6.6.26-r1^bs
(6.6.27) ~6.6.27^bs
(6.8.3) ~6.8.3^bs
(6.8.4) ~6.8.4^bs
(6.8.5) ~6.8.5^bs
(6.8.5-r1) ~6.8.5-r1^bs
(6.8.6) ~6.8.6^bs
{build experimental symlink}
Installed versions: 6.6.21(6.6.21)^bs(03:21:20 24/03/24)(-build -
experimental -symlink)
Homepage:https://dev.gentoo.org/~mpagano/genpatches
Description: Full sources including the Gentoo patchset for the
6.8 kernel tree
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Using the new binpkgs
On Tuesday, 16 April 2024 16:29:09 BST Eli Schwartz wrote: [Big snip] Never mind. I've solved the problem by removing sci-misc/boinc and its 40-odd dependencies. The machine was only barely capable of running it anyway. -- Regards, Peter.
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Grant, On Tuesday, 2024-04-16 19:26:25 -, you wrote: > ... > That means that all gentoo-sources stable kernels are "longterm" > kernel versions on kernel.org. It does not mean that all "longterm" > kernel versions from kernel.org are available as "stable" in > gentoo-sources. > > It is a statement that "gentoo-sources stable" is a subset of > "kernel.org longterm". This sort of deteriorates into a debate about words rather than meanings without explaining HOW LONG such a series of related kernels are main- tained and provided. After all, "longterm" or "LTS" suggest that these lines of developement are less short-lived than others. To give an ex- ample: the oldest "longterm" kernels listed on "kernel.org" are 4.19.*, 5.4.* and 5.10.*. Of these only 5.10.* is still available from Gentoo. Digging through my Gentoo installation logs, I can see that 4.19.72 was one of the first kernels I built myself. This was somewhen in the mid- dle of 2019, that is, not yet five years back. And this kernel line has already vanished from Gentoo. So what time span are we talking about when we say "LTS Gentoo kernel"? Roughly four, three or two years? And why is the support provided by Gentoo significantly shorter than that by "kernel.org"? Sincerely, Rainer
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:04:15AM -0500 schrieb Dale: > > >> I've seen some server type mobos that have SAS connectors which gives >> several options. Some of them tend to have more PCIe slots which some >> regular mobos don't anymore. Then there is that ECC memory as well. If >> the memory doesn't cost to much more, I could go that route. I'm not >> sure how much I would benefit from it but data corruption is a thing to >> be concerned about. >> […] >> The problem with those cards, some of the newer mobos don't have as many >> PCIe slots to put those cards into anymore. I think I currently have >> two such cards in my current rig. The new rig would hold almost twice >> the number of drives. Obviously, I'd need cards with more SATA ports. > Indeed consumer boards tend to get fewer normal PCIe slots. Filtering for > AM4 boards, the filter allowed me to filter up to 6 slots, whereas for AM5 > boards, the filter stopped at 4 slots. > AM4: https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=mbam4=18869_5%7E20502_UECCDIMM%7E4400_ATX > AM5: https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=mbam5=18869_4%7E20502_UECCDIMM%7E4400_ATX > > On the AM5 link, I found a mobo that I kinda like. I still wish it had more PCIe slots tho. Still, with m.2 to SATA converter thing or a PCIe card with a LOT of SATA ports or a SAS card, I could handle all the hard drives, I think. Anyway, I found the ASUS Prime X670-P which is quite nice. It has connections I've never heard of. Still, may need them for something. I found the ASUS website and started looking for the specs and such. After I got the noscript thing sorted so the page would work, I noticed something kinda awesome. It supports not only the Ryzen 9 series but also supports Ryzen 5 series. I looked up the Ryzen 5 7600X and 8600G. I think the X has no video and the G has video support. I haven't researched yet to see if the mobo requires the G since it has video ports, two to be more precise which is the minimum I need. Anyway, those two CPUs are cheaper than the Ryzen 9 I was looking at. I could upgrade later on as prices drop. I'm sure a new Ryzen is lurking around the corner. I have a FX-8350 8 core CPU now. Would the Ryzen 5's mentioned above be a good bit faster, a lot, a whole lot? I need to upgrade either way. Mobos tend to last around 10 years or so and I'm pushing that hard. With the new solid capacitors, some say they last a lot longer now. Still, I need more memory too. 32GBs just isn't much when running Seamonkey, three Firefox profiles and torrent software. I'm not running out but at times, it's using a lot of it. I was hoping for a mobo that would handle more than 128GB but that is a lot of memory. I found a benchmark website that compares the two. Link below. It claims about 80% faster. In some ways, twice as fast. Sometimes those bench tests don't reflect the real world to well. Most of them seem to test gaming speeds which isn't of much use anyway for me. I'm more about compiling and such. Just wondering how much speed difference this would make. Maybe someone reading this did a similar upgrade or has seen both in action. If so, post and share your thoughts. This opens a new option that might be easier to accomplish. Still wish that mobo had more PCIe slots tho. Dale :-) :-) https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-7600X-vs-AMD-FX-8350/4130vs1489 https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-x670-p/helpdesk_qvl_cpu?model2Name=PRIME-X670-P
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On Tuesday, 16 April 2024 20:26:25 BST Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-04-16, Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > > Arve, > > > > On Tuesday, 2024-04-16 15:53:48 +0200, you wrote: > >> ... > >> Only LTS kernels get stabilised, so this information is readily > >> available. > > > > I'm sure I don't understand this: According to "https://www.kernel.org/; > > kernel 6.6.27 is "longterm", but according to "eix" the most recent > > 6.6.* kernels are 6.6.22 and 6.6.23 which both are non-stable (well, I > > ran my last "sync" immediately before the profile upgrade, so this might > > not be current). I'm still using stable kernel 6.6.13 as my backup ker- > > nel, but this kernel is no longer provided by Gentoo. So, what precise- > > ly does LTS or "longterm" mean? LTS stands for Long Term Support and it means the kernel maintainers will continue to backport bug fixes and security patches into the LTS kernels from the Mainline tree, as they progress in their development of the kernel code. When they do this backporting they bump the LTS kernel version, e.g. from 6.6.24 to 6.6.25. They will not go into this prolonged maintenance effort with the kernel's 'Stable' tree, which has a higher churn as it acquires the Mainline kernels as soon as the latter are signed for release. > That means that all gentoo-sources stable kernels are "longterm" > kernel versions on kernel.org. It does not mean that all "longterm" > kernel versions from kernel.org are available as "stable" in > gentoo-sources. > > It is a statement that "gentoo-sources stable" is a subset of > "kernel.org longterm". > > It is not a statement that the two sets are identical. > > In other words: > >"ONLY LTS kernels get stabilized." > > is a different statement from > >"ALL LTS kernels get stabilized." > > The former is true. The latter is not. Yes, precisely. This happens because Gentoo acquire the latest LTS kernel, apply various Gentoo related patches, test and eventually mark as stable the corresponding version of the gentoo-sources in portage. This process incurs some inevitable delay compared with the LTS kernel tree releases, but nevertheless the stable gentoo-sources follow the LTS releases. > > But, to get back to the beginning of this discussion: if there is a > > risk that my aging hardware possibly can less and less cope with > > newer and newer kernels, should I put something like > > > >>=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-6.7.0 > > > > into file "package.mask" to stay with "longterm" 6.6.* kernels? > > Yes: if you want to avoid getting upgraded to 6.8 when it gets > kernel.org "longterm" status and gentoo-sources "stable" status, then > a statement like that in in package.mask will keep you on > gentoo-sources 6.6 kernels (which are "longterm" on kernel.org). > > Again: not all longterm 6.6.x kernel versions get marked as "stable" > for gentoo-sources. If you have not enabled the testing keyword for > gentoo-sources, then you'll only get the 6.6.x kernel versions that > the gentoo-sources maintainers have declared as "stable". > > -- > Grant I am not sure the assumption "... aging hardware possibly can less and less cope with newer and newer kernels" is correct. As already mentioned newer kernels have both security and bug fixes. As long as you stick with stable gentoo-sources you'll have these in your system. Later kernels also come with additional kernel drivers for new(er) hardware. You may not need/want these drivers if you do not run the latest hardware. Using 'make oldconfig' allows you to exclude such new drivers, but include new security options and/or functionality as desired. It can happen for new code to introduce some software regression. However, this is not limited to old hardware. If there is no workaround, or some patch you can apply manually to your kernel from a later release, then by all means you can mask later minor LTS releases *for a little while only* and keep an eye open for the latest releases which could have addressed the bug you suffered from. PS. Regarding your earlier question about different make *config commands and their meaning you can check the latest make help page: $ cd /usr/src/linux $ make help Then take a look at the section "Configuration targets". signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On 2024-04-16, Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > Arve, > > On Tuesday, 2024-04-16 15:53:48 +0200, you wrote: > >> ... >> Only LTS kernels get stabilised, so this information is readily available. > > I'm sure I don't understand this: According to "https://www.kernel.org/; > kernel 6.6.27 is "longterm", but according to "eix" the most recent > 6.6.* kernels are 6.6.22 and 6.6.23 which both are non-stable (well, I > ran my last "sync" immediately before the profile upgrade, so this might > not be current). I'm still using stable kernel 6.6.13 as my backup ker- > nel, but this kernel is no longer provided by Gentoo. So, what precise- > ly does LTS or "longterm" mean? That means that all gentoo-sources stable kernels are "longterm" kernel versions on kernel.org. It does not mean that all "longterm" kernel versions from kernel.org are available as "stable" in gentoo-sources. It is a statement that "gentoo-sources stable" is a subset of "kernel.org longterm". It is not a statement that the two sets are identical. In other words: "ONLY LTS kernels get stabilized." is a different statement from "ALL LTS kernels get stabilized." The former is true. The latter is not. > But, to get back to the beginning of this discussion: if there is a > risk that my aging hardware possibly can less and less cope with > newer and newer kernels, should I put something like > >>=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-6.7.0 > > into file "package.mask" to stay with "longterm" 6.6.* kernels? Yes: if you want to avoid getting upgraded to 6.8 when it gets kernel.org "longterm" status and gentoo-sources "stable" status, then a statement like that in in package.mask will keep you on gentoo-sources 6.6 kernels (which are "longterm" on kernel.org). Again: not all longterm 6.6.x kernel versions get marked as "stable" for gentoo-sources. If you have not enabled the testing keyword for gentoo-sources, then you'll only get the 6.6.x kernel versions that the gentoo-sources maintainers have declared as "stable". -- Grant
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Arve, On Tuesday, 2024-04-16 15:53:48 +0200, you wrote: > ... > Only LTS kernels get stabilised, so this information is readily available. I'm sure I don't understand this: According to "https://www.kernel.org/; kernel 6.6.27 is "longterm", but according to "eix" the most recent 6.6.* kernels are 6.6.22 and 6.6.23 which both are non-stable (well, I ran my last "sync" immediately before the profile upgrade, so this might not be current). I'm still using stable kernel 6.6.13 as my backup ker- nel, but this kernel is no longer provided by Gentoo. So, what precise- ly does LTS or "longterm" mean? But, to get back to the beginning of this discussion: if there is a risk that my aging hardware possibly can less and less cope with newer and newer kernels, should I put something like >=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-6.7.0 into file "package.mask" to stay with "longterm" 6.6.* kernels? Sincerely, Rainer
Re: [gentoo-user] Using the new binpkgs
On April 16, 2024 10:44:55 AM EDT, Peter Humphrey wrote: > >This is what I get after this morning's update: > > >Dependency resolution took 16.03 s (backtrack: 0/20). > >[ebuild N ] gui-libs/gtk-4.12.5:4::gentoo USE="X cups gstreamer >introspection wayland (-aqua) -broadway -cloudproviders -colord -examples (- >ffmpeg) -sysprof -test (-vulkan)" CPU_FLAGS_X86="f16c" 16,909 KiB >[binary NS] net-libs/libsoup-3.4.4-2:3.0::gentoo [2.74.3:2.4::gentoo] >USE="brotli* introspection ssl vala -gssapi -gtk-doc -samba -sysprof -test" >ABI_X86="(64) -32 (-x32)" 390 KiB >[ebuild NS] net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.42.5-r600:6/0::gentoo >[2.42.5:4/37::gentoo] USE="X gstreamer introspection jpeg2k jumbo-build lcms >pdf (seccomp) spell wayland (-aqua) -avif -examples -gamepad -jpegxl -keyring >-systemd" 0 KiB > >Total: 3 packages (1 new, 2 in new slots, 1 binary), Size of downloads: 17,299 >KiB > >!!! The following binary packages have been ignored due to non matching USE: > >=gui-libs/gtk-4.12.5 colord -cpu_flags_x86_f16c sysprof >=gui-libs/gtk-4.12.5 -cpu_flags_x86_f16c -gstreamer > > >Notice that there's no mention of non-matching USE in webkit-gtk. And, re >gtk-4.12.5, why do the USE flags not match the default in the profile? And >what >on earth is 'cpu_flags_x86_f16c'? And why does gtk get two different lines for >the same package? CPU_FLAGS_X86 is probably in your make.conf. It is an expanded USE and not typically set per package. Two different lines for the same package is because there are two different sets of USE flags available on the binhost. Because the binhost compiles it on two different builders with different USE flags. (There is a server profile, a gnome profile, and a KDE profile.) webkit-gtk isn't mentioned at all, because the binhost doesn't have a binary package for SLOT="2.42.5". Is there a reason you expected it would be? The binhost has many packages, and lacks many packages. The ones it has tend to be popular leaf applications and their dependencies. The package you're trying to install is a library framework -- perhaps none of the binhost packages depend on that specific SLOT for webkit-gtk. >What's more, neither gtk nor libsoup was mentioned this morning, and I haven't >sync'd in the interim. Why should they have been mentioned, if they are only needed (marked as "New", not updated) because you're trying to install webkit-gtk from scratch? >You see why I'm mystified - unless I've messed up my scripts, of course. > > Does your emerge command include --getbinpkg, or -g? > >Of course; I /am/ doing my best to follow the instructions verbatim. > -- Eli Schwartz
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On 2024-04-16, Dale wrote: > I've never understood what is supported long term either. I use > gentoo-sources. I've never figured out just how to pick a kernel that > is supposed to be stable for the larger version. In other words, only > security and bug fixes, no new hardware. Right now, 6.8.5 is the > highest version in the tree here but there are more versions of it to > come. So, I tend to go back to 6.7.X and pick the highest version of > that. The first two digits used to mean something but I think that > changed a long time ago. Any gentoo-soruces ebuild that's "stable" is an upstream LTS kernel. The 6.8 version of gentoo-sources are all "testing". They're "stable" on kernel.org, but theyre _not_ LTS. I think I read that 6.8 is expected to become the next LTS, but I don't really pay attention. > I try to avoid the absolute latest because my video drivers tend to lag > behind a little. They won't emerge for anything very new sometimes. > That's why I go back a little as described above. Thing is, I have no > idea if that is the right way or if it really even matters if I pick > 6.8.1 over 6.7.12 or vice versa. Neither are stable in Gentoo. Neither are longterm on kernel.org. 6.8 is stable on kernel.org. 6.7 is EOL on kernel.org. I would only choose 6.7 as a last resort. I would only choose 6.8 if the latest longterm (6.6) won't work. > I wish they were clearly marked somehow myself. Something in the name > that shows it is stable. Given I rarely have problems with kernels, > maybe none of this matters. Thing is, I plan to build a new rig soon. > Might help then. Maybe. Look at https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/sys-kernel/gentoo-sources The ones in green are the kernel.org "longterm" supported kernel versions that are stable in Gentoo. Here you can see which ones are lonterm, stable, mainline, and EOL upstream: https://kernel.org/ I would never run something that's not longterm unless there's a specific reason you have to choose something else. If you have to pick something that's not longterm, go with "stable" and not EOL if you can.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-04-16, Arve Barsnes wrote: >> On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 at 15:29, Dr Rainer Woitok >> wrote: My understanding is the gentoo-sources kernels are aligned with the LTS upstream releases. >>> Right, they use the same version numbers. But you can't see from just >>> looking at the available "gentoo-sources" which one is LTS and which one >>> is not. You have to consult "https://www.kernel.org/; to get this in- >>> formation. >> Only LTS kernels get stabilised, so this information is readily available. > "Stablized" as in the corresponding gentoo-sources ebuild is marked as > stable. [Not to be confused with Linux "stable" kernels -- not all of > which end up with LTS status.] > > Getnoo-sources also includes "stable" but not "LTS" Linux kernels, but > the gentoo-sources ebuild for those is always "testing". > > IOW, if you install gentoo-sources, and don't keyword it to allow > "testing" ebuilds, then you won't get anything other than LTS kernel > sources. That's some helpful info. That helps me too. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Arve Barsnes wrote: > On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 at 15:29, Dr Rainer Woitok > wrote: >>> My understanding is the gentoo-sources kernels are aligned with the LTS >>> upstream releases. >> Right, they use the same version numbers. But you can't see from just >> looking at the available "gentoo-sources" which one is LTS and which one >> is not. You have to consult "https://www.kernel.org/; to get this in- >> formation. > Only LTS kernels get stabilised, so this information is readily available. > > Regards, > Arve I've never understood what is supported long term either. I use gentoo-sources. I've never figured out just how to pick a kernel that is supposed to be stable for the larger version. In other words, only security and bug fixes, no new hardware. Right now, 6.8.5 is the highest version in the tree here but there are more versions of it to come. So, I tend to go back to 6.7.X and pick the highest version of that. The first two digits used to mean something but I think that changed a long time ago. I try to avoid the absolute latest because my video drivers tend to lag behind a little. They won't emerge for anything very new sometimes. That's why I go back a little as described above. Thing is, I have no idea if that is the right way or if it really even matters if I pick 6.8.1 over 6.7.12 or vice versa. I wish they were clearly marked somehow myself. Something in the name that shows it is stable. Given I rarely have problems with kernels, maybe none of this matters. Thing is, I plan to build a new rig soon. Might help then. Maybe. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On 2024-04-16, Arve Barsnes wrote: > On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 at 15:29, Dr Rainer Woitok > wrote: >> > My understanding is the gentoo-sources kernels are aligned with the LTS >> > upstream releases. >> >> Right, they use the same version numbers. But you can't see from just >> looking at the available "gentoo-sources" which one is LTS and which one >> is not. You have to consult "https://www.kernel.org/; to get this in- >> formation. > > Only LTS kernels get stabilised, so this information is readily available. "Stablized" as in the corresponding gentoo-sources ebuild is marked as stable. [Not to be confused with Linux "stable" kernels -- not all of which end up with LTS status.] Getnoo-sources also includes "stable" but not "LTS" Linux kernels, but the gentoo-sources ebuild for those is always "testing". IOW, if you install gentoo-sources, and don't keyword it to allow "testing" ebuilds, then you won't get anything other than LTS kernel sources.
Re: [gentoo-user] Using the new binpkgs
(Rearranged in chronological order...) On Tuesday, 16 April 2024 15:08:33 BST Waldo Lemmer wrote: > On Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 15:43 Peter Humphrey wrote: > > On Monday, 15 April 2024 12:19:02 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: --->8 > > I'm still mystified by these Gentoo binary packages. I assume that they're > > generated using the default USE flags in the profile version (whence the > > need to specify it in gentoobinhost.conf). > > > > So why is portage not fetching webkit-gtk from the repo? I've just had to > > compile it from source, even though nothing in /etc/portage/ refers to it > > (except for wxGTK depending on it). Therefore I assume i meet the > > conditions > > for using the binpkg, but apparently not. > > > > Clues, anyone? > > If you add --ask --verbose, Portage should tell you why it's falling back > to the source package. This is what I get after this morning's update: Dependency resolution took 16.03 s (backtrack: 0/20). [ebuild N ] gui-libs/gtk-4.12.5:4::gentoo USE="X cups gstreamer introspection wayland (-aqua) -broadway -cloudproviders -colord -examples (- ffmpeg) -sysprof -test (-vulkan)" CPU_FLAGS_X86="f16c" 16,909 KiB [binary NS] net-libs/libsoup-3.4.4-2:3.0::gentoo [2.74.3:2.4::gentoo] USE="brotli* introspection ssl vala -gssapi -gtk-doc -samba -sysprof -test" ABI_X86="(64) -32 (-x32)" 390 KiB [ebuild NS] net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.42.5-r600:6/0::gentoo [2.42.5:4/37::gentoo] USE="X gstreamer introspection jpeg2k jumbo-build lcms pdf (seccomp) spell wayland (-aqua) -avif -examples -gamepad -jpegxl -keyring -systemd" 0 KiB Total: 3 packages (1 new, 2 in new slots, 1 binary), Size of downloads: 17,299 KiB !!! The following binary packages have been ignored due to non matching USE: =gui-libs/gtk-4.12.5 colord -cpu_flags_x86_f16c sysprof =gui-libs/gtk-4.12.5 -cpu_flags_x86_f16c -gstreamer Notice that there's no mention of non-matching USE in webkit-gtk. And, re gtk-4.12.5, why do the USE flags not match the default in the profile? And what on earth is 'cpu_flags_x86_f16c'? And why does gtk get two different lines for the same package? What's more, neither gtk nor libsoup was mentioned this morning, and I haven't sync'd in the interim. You see why I'm mystified - unless I've messed up my scripts, of course. > Does your emerge command include --getbinpkg, or -g? Of course; I /am/ doing my best to follow the instructions verbatim. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On 4/16/24 7:15 AM, Michael wrote: On Tuesday, 16 April 2024 11:55:20 BST Dale wrote: If you update often, it shouldn't take long answer the questions. If you do like me and don't update often, it may take longer but no more time than it would if you updated often and added all the time together. As far as I know, if one manually updates their kernel, make oldconfig is the safest and recommended method. You are prompted for new drivers/options and can see if they apply to you or not. If you don't want to update that way, I think there is a kernel that does it's own thing. I think it is sort of like boot media uses. If the time needed to answer all the questions isn't there, that may be a option to look into. It's called genkernel. I've never used it but read it works. The sys-kernel/genkernel package will automatically build & install your kernel and initramfs in /boot, but it will NOT prepare a kernel configuration tuned to your hardware and desired options. It uses a generic default configuration safe for most circumstances. The user can tweak the default configuration to suit their needs and genkernel will use that. I manually run make xconfig (after running make olddefconfig) and have genkernel set to not use it's default config, sticking to the .config in the kernel tree (/usr/src/linux.) That's been working fine for me for many years.
Re: [gentoo-user] Using the new binpkgs
If you add --ask --verbose, Portage should tell you why it's falling back to the source package. Does your emerge command include --getbinpkg, or -g? On Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 15:43 Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Monday, 15 April 2024 12:19:02 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > > Hello list, > > [Big snip] > > I'm still mystified by these Gentoo binary packages. I assume that they're > generated using the default USE flags in the profile version (whence the > need to > specify it in gentoobinhost.conf). > > So why is portage not fetching webkit-gtk from the repo? I've just had to > compile it from source, even though nothing in /etc/portage/ refers to it > (except for wxGTK depending on it). Therefore I assume i meet the > conditions > for using the binpkg, but apparently not. > > Clues, anyone? > > -- > Regards, > Peter. > > > > >
Re: [gentoo-user] Using the new binpkgs
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 at 15:43, Peter Humphrey wrote: > I'm still mystified by these Gentoo binary packages. I assume that they're > generated using the default USE flags in the profile version (whence the need > to > specify it in gentoobinhost.conf). > > So why is portage not fetching webkit-gtk from the repo? I've just had to > compile it from source, even though nothing in /etc/portage/ refers to it > (except for wxGTK depending on it). Therefore I assume i meet the conditions > for using the binpkg, but apparently not. A variety of USE combinations are built, but it needs to match your case. Check your binhost mirror to see which combinations exist, for instance at https://ftp.lysator.liu.se/gentoo/releases/amd64/binpackages/23.0/x86-64/Packages Search for 'CPV: net-libs/webkit-gtk' and check the USE line for the matching package versions you're wondering about. Regards, Arve
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 at 15:29, Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > > My understanding is the gentoo-sources kernels are aligned with the LTS > > upstream releases. > > Right, they use the same version numbers. But you can't see from just > looking at the available "gentoo-sources" which one is LTS and which one > is not. You have to consult "https://www.kernel.org/; to get this in- > formation. Only LTS kernels get stabilised, so this information is readily available. Regards, Arve
Re: [gentoo-user] Using the new binpkgs
On Monday, 15 April 2024 12:19:02 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: Hello list, [Big snip] I'm still mystified by these Gentoo binary packages. I assume that they're generated using the default USE flags in the profile version (whence the need to specify it in gentoobinhost.conf). So why is portage not fetching webkit-gtk from the repo? I've just had to compile it from source, even though nothing in /etc/portage/ refers to it (except for wxGTK depending on it). Therefore I assume i meet the conditions for using the binpkg, but apparently not. Clues, anyone? -- Regards, Peter.
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Michael, On Tuesday, 2024-04-16 11:15:07 +0100, you wrote: > ... > > But this brings up two related questions: > > > > 1. Why does Gentoo not somehow mark LTS kernels either in the version > >number or in the slot name? This would make it easier to prevent the > >installation of too modern kernels. > > My understanding is the gentoo-sources kernels are aligned with the LTS > upstream releases. Right, they use the same version numbers. But you can't see from just looking at the available "gentoo-sources" which one is LTS and which one is not. You have to consult "https://www.kernel.org/; to get this in- formation. > ... > The make oldconfig script will identify new config items not present in your > old kernel config, show which is the default option and ask you to > interactively select which one you prefer; e.g. > > SPECULATION_MITIGATIONS [Y/n/m/?] (NEW) > > The default option above has been identified as Y, if the devs have > determined > this is a safe default for the arch. You can hit Enter to select Y, or type > 'n' for no, 'm' for module, or '?' to read the extended description and help > for this option before you make up your mind. Bingo! This is exactly the information I somehow wasn't able to find in my early Gentoo days! You made my day :-) Sincerely, Rainer
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Michael wrote: > On Tuesday, 16 April 2024 11:55:20 BST Dale wrote: > >> If you update often, it shouldn't take long answer the questions. If >> you do like me and don't update often, it may take longer but no more >> time than it would if you updated often and added all the time >> together. As far as I know, if one manually updates their kernel, make >> oldconfig is the safest and recommended method. You are prompted for >> new drivers/options and can see if they apply to you or not. If you >> don't want to update that way, I think there is a kernel that does it's >> own thing. I think it is sort of like boot media uses. If the time >> needed to answer all the questions isn't there, that may be a option to >> look into. It's called genkernel. I've never used it but read it works. > The sys-kernel/genkernel package will automatically build & install your > kernel and initramfs in /boot, but it will NOT prepare a kernel configuration > tuned to your hardware and desired options. It uses a generic default > configuration safe for most circumstances. The user can tweak the default > configuration to suit their needs and genkernel will use that. > > For quick(er) and automated kernel update and installation there are the > gentoo *distribution kernels*: > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Distribution_Kernel > > > I thought genkernel was the one. Looking at your link, that would be a option more closely to what I thought genkernel was. So, genkernel requires more effort than I thought and distribution kernel is the more "automatic" way. Now to remember that. :/ I still like my old way. It works. It's rare that it fails. It's been years since I couldn't boot up due to a bad kernel. Still good to have options tho. Not everyone is like me. Thank goodness for that. ROFL Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On Tuesday, 16 April 2024 11:55:20 BST Dale wrote: > If you update often, it shouldn't take long answer the questions. If > you do like me and don't update often, it may take longer but no more > time than it would if you updated often and added all the time > together. As far as I know, if one manually updates their kernel, make > oldconfig is the safest and recommended method. You are prompted for > new drivers/options and can see if they apply to you or not. If you > don't want to update that way, I think there is a kernel that does it's > own thing. I think it is sort of like boot media uses. If the time > needed to answer all the questions isn't there, that may be a option to > look into. It's called genkernel. I've never used it but read it works. The sys-kernel/genkernel package will automatically build & install your kernel and initramfs in /boot, but it will NOT prepare a kernel configuration tuned to your hardware and desired options. It uses a generic default configuration safe for most circumstances. The user can tweak the default configuration to suit their needs and genkernel will use that. For quick(er) and automated kernel update and installation there are the gentoo *distribution kernels*: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Distribution_Kernel > In short, make oldconfig is the recommended way as far as I know. In my > opinion, it is the safest way to know what you are going to get. Links > for more info. > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Configuration > > Someone else may have a different opinion, even a better one. This is > how I always do it and kernel failure is rare. Hope it helps. > > Dale > > :-) :-) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > Michael, > > On Monday, 2024-04-15 12:48:34 +0100, you wrote: > >> ... >> Why have you set your /boot to be mounted at boot? > Well, I think, I then just followed the Gentoo Handbook. But I see your > point of saving time which could be better used to successfully unmount > the "/home/" partition. I'll change my "/etc/fstab" file as well as a > few of my scripts. Thanks for pointing that out :-) > >> ... >> MoBo firmware can be notoriously buggy and is >> typically frozen/abandoned within a couple of years by the OEMs. In >> addition, >> kernel code changes and any previous symbiosis with the firmware can fall >> apart with a later kernel release. > Hm, this sounds a bit like "never change your running kernel", doesn't > it? But this brings up two related questions: > > 1. Why does Gentoo not somehow mark LTS kernels either in the version >number or in the slot name? This would make it easier to prevent the >installation of too modern kernels. > > 2. I'm building new kernels with "make olddefconfig" rather than "make >oldconfig" because I thought providing default values to new configu- >ration variables is a good idea. But what precisely does "make old- >config" do with new configuration variables instead? Just leaving >them out? But what's the difference between not defining a configu- >ration variable and setting it to a default value? Or is "make old- >config" really the way to generate more conservative kernels which do >not as quickly overburden aging motherboards? > > Sincerely, > Rainer I rarely update my kernel given I don't reboot much. I am working on that tho. I've updated my kernel three times recently but never rebooted to use any of them. If power fails and I have to reboot, they are there at least. All of us should update when we can. I been using Gentoo since around 2003. I started out making my kernel from scratch and updating the manual way. I also install the manual way with my own naming scheme, just close enough for dracut and grub to recognize them. I've always used make oldconfig and for most of the driver questions, I answer no. Given I start with a kernel config that already contains everything I need, it is rare that I need anything new. So, I rarely need any of the new drivers. You are likely the same. I think there is a option for it to default to no or yes for all the questions automatically but not all questions are yes or no and sometimes you may need a yes. To me, it's best to use make oldconfig and answer each question. That way you can catch something you can use but you also catch those questions that need a numbered option, 1, 2, 3, 4 or something. If you update often, it shouldn't take long answer the questions. If you do like me and don't update often, it may take longer but no more time than it would if you updated often and added all the time together. As far as I know, if one manually updates their kernel, make oldconfig is the safest and recommended method. You are prompted for new drivers/options and can see if they apply to you or not. If you don't want to update that way, I think there is a kernel that does it's own thing. I think it is sort of like boot media uses. If the time needed to answer all the questions isn't there, that may be a option to look into. It's called genkernel. I've never used it but read it works. In short, make oldconfig is the recommended way as far as I know. In my opinion, it is the safest way to know what you are going to get. Links for more info. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Configuration Someone else may have a different opinion, even a better one. This is how I always do it and kernel failure is rare. Hope it helps. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
On Tuesday, 16 April 2024 10:04:43 BST Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > Michael, > > On Monday, 2024-04-15 12:48:34 +0100, you wrote: > > ... > > Why have you set your /boot to be mounted at boot? > > Well, I think, I then just followed the Gentoo Handbook. But I see your > point of saving time which could be better used to successfully unmount > the "/home/" partition. I'll change my "/etc/fstab" file as well as a > few of my scripts. Thanks for pointing that out :-) > > > ... > > > > MoBo firmware can be notoriously buggy and is > > > > typically frozen/abandoned within a couple of years by the OEMs. In > > addition, kernel code changes and any previous symbiosis with the > > firmware can fall apart with a later kernel release. > > Hm, this sounds a bit like "never change your running kernel", doesn't > it? Not really, because a newer kernel has any security patches, plus it can include bug fixes. You won't know if a later release fixes or breaks something on your system until you tried it. > But this brings up two related questions: > > 1. Why does Gentoo not somehow mark LTS kernels either in the version >number or in the slot name? This would make it easier to prevent the >installation of too modern kernels. My understanding is the gentoo-sources kernels are aligned with the LTS upstream releases. > 2. I'm building new kernels with "make olddefconfig" rather than "make >oldconfig" because I thought providing default values to new configu- >ration variables is a good idea. It is a good idea if the new config items are something you need/want on your system and in addition if the default setting suits your needs. >But what precisely does "make old- >config" do with new configuration variables instead? Just leaving >them out? But what's the difference between not defining a configu- >ration variable and setting it to a default value? Or is "make old- >config" really the way to generate more conservative kernels which do >not as quickly overburden aging motherboards? The make oldconfig script will identify new config items not present in your old kernel config, show which is the default option and ask you to interactively select which one you prefer; e.g. SPECULATION_MITIGATIONS [Y/n/m/?] (NEW) The default option above has been identified as Y, if the devs have determined this is a safe default for the arch. You can hit Enter to select Y, or type 'n' for no, 'm' for module, or '?' to read the extended description and help for this option before you make up your mind. With make olddefconfig the option 'Y' will be automatically selected without asking your input. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Re: Slightly corrupted file systems when resuming from hibernation
Michael, On Monday, 2024-04-15 12:48:34 +0100, you wrote: > ... > Why have you set your /boot to be mounted at boot? Well, I think, I then just followed the Gentoo Handbook. But I see your point of saving time which could be better used to successfully unmount the "/home/" partition. I'll change my "/etc/fstab" file as well as a few of my scripts. Thanks for pointing that out :-) > ... > MoBo firmware can be notoriously buggy and is > typically frozen/abandoned within a couple of years by the OEMs. In > addition, > kernel code changes and any previous symbiosis with the firmware can fall > apart with a later kernel release. Hm, this sounds a bit like "never change your running kernel", doesn't it? But this brings up two related questions: 1. Why does Gentoo not somehow mark LTS kernels either in the version number or in the slot name? This would make it easier to prevent the installation of too modern kernels. 2. I'm building new kernels with "make olddefconfig" rather than "make oldconfig" because I thought providing default values to new configu- ration variables is a good idea. But what precisely does "make old- config" do with new configuration variables instead? Just leaving them out? But what's the difference between not defining a configu- ration variable and setting it to a default value? Or is "make old- config" really the way to generate more conservative kernels which do not as quickly overburden aging motherboards? Sincerely, Rainer
Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300
Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:04:15AM -0500 schrieb Dale: > >>> The physical connector is called M.2. The dimensions of the “sticks” are >>> given in a number such as 2280, meaning 22 mm wide and 80 mm long. There >>> are >>> different lengths available from 30 to 110 mm. M.2 has different “keys”, >>> meaning there are several variants of electrical hookup. Depending on that, >>> it can support SATA, PCIe, or both. NVMe is a protocol that usually runs >>> via >>> PCIe. So for a modern setup, one usually buys NVMe drives, meaning they are >>> connected via PCIe either directly to the CPU or over the chipset. >>> >> >> Ahh, that's why some of them look a little different. I was wondering >> about that. Keep in mind, I've never seen one in real life. Just >> pictures or videos, or people talking about them on this list. > I use one in my 10-year-old PC. The board only provides PCIe 2.0×2 to the > slot, so I only get around 1 GB/s instead of 3 which the SSD can reach. But > I bought the SSD with the intention of keeping it in the next build and I > don’t notice the difference anyways. > >>> There is also the other way around that: an adapter card for the M.2 slot >>> that gives you SATA ports. >>> >> I didn't know that. > I actually thought we mentioned it already in an earlier “NAS thingy” > thread. :) > > https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/s0bf1d/m2_sata_expansion_anyone_use_something_like_this/ > https://www.amazon.de/dp/B09FZDQ6ZB > Maybe you find something if you search for the controller chip (PCIe to > SATA): JMB585. From what I’ve just read though, the cheap chines adapters > don’t seem to be very sturdy. One person advised to put an adapter M.2 → > normal PCIe into the M.2 and then use a normal-formfactor controller card. > After all, an M.2 slot is just a PCIe×4 slot with a different connector. > > BTW: there are also NVMe SSDs in the old 2.5″ format. This formfactor is > called U.2, but beware the enterprise-level prices. It could have came up but slipped my mind. Lots of things slip through nowadays. :/ Those you linked to are nice. There are some PCIe cards that go up to a dozen or so drives and still give pretty good speed. A PCIe card would be better for the new build, given the larger number of sata ports. Either way, I try to spread it across two connection points. Example, I have a data and crypt mount point each having three hard drives. All my data mount point drives are on one card. All my crypt mount point drives are on one card. If one card quits all of a sudden, that whole mount point is gone. If needed, I could move drives to the other card until I can replace the card. >> I've seen some server type mobos that have SAS connectors which gives >> several options. Some of them tend to have more PCIe slots which some >> regular mobos don't anymore. Then there is that ECC memory as well. If >> the memory doesn't cost to much more, I could go that route. I'm not >> sure how much I would benefit from it but data corruption is a thing to >> be concerned about. >> […] >> The problem with those cards, some of the newer mobos don't have as many >> PCIe slots to put those cards into anymore. I think I currently have >> two such cards in my current rig. The new rig would hold almost twice >> the number of drives. Obviously, I'd need cards with more SATA ports. > Indeed consumer boards tend to get fewer normal PCIe slots. Filtering for > AM4 boards, the filter allowed me to filter up to 6 slots, whereas for AM5 > boards, the filter stopped at 4 slots. > AM4: https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=mbam4=18869_5%7E20502_UECCDIMM%7E4400_ATX > AM5: https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=mbam5=18869_4%7E20502_UECCDIMM%7E4400_ATX My new build will be a Ryzen 9 7900X which is AM5. I try to stick with known good brands of mobos. I currently use Gigabyte. I'd be happy with ASUS and a couple others. Supermicron I think is a good brand for server type gear. I notice all the ones listed in your link for AM5 is ASUS. I don't recall ever having one but I've read they are good. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of them. >> One reason I'm trying not to move to fast right now, besides trying to >> save up money, I'm trying to find the right CPU, mobo and memory combo. >> None of them are cheap anymore. Just the CPU is going to be around >> $400. The mobo isn't to far behind if I go with a non server one. > One popular choice for home servers is AM4’s Ryzen Pro 4650G. That’s an APU > (so with powerful internal graphics), but also with ECC support (hence the > Pro moniker). The APU is popular because 1) on AM4 only APUs have graphics > at all, 2) it allows for use as a compact media server, as no bulky GPU is > needed. > > Speaking of GPU: We’ve had the topic before, but keep in mind that if you go > with AM5, you don’t need a dGPU. Unless you go with one of those F > processors. So there is one more slot available. > I prefer to have a
Re: [gentoo-user] Using the new binpkgs
Hi Peter, "Profile version" is the correct term here. I don't have the privileges required to edit the Handbook, but as soon as I have the time, I will propose a fix and make sure it gets applied. Thanks for getting back to me. Regards, Waldo On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 16:04 Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Monday, 15 April 2024 13:24:59 BST Waldo Lemmer wrote: > > > I'd like to understand your confusion. Where did you get 27 from? > > From ref 1, viz: > "The architecture and profile targets within the sync-uri value do matter > and > should align to the respective computer architecture (amd64 in this case) > and > system profile selected in the Choosing the right profile section." > > I think it should refer to a family of profiles, or perhaps a series. > Something > to refer specifically to, in this case, 23.0. > > It might have saved me some sawdust under the finger-nails. :) > > -- > Regards, > Peter. > > > > >
