Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
Gerhard Hoogterp schreef:
On Friday 09 December 2005 23:20, Tom Smith wrote:
Gentoo is a source-based distribution. This means that the software
you receive comes in the form of source code. It's up to you to
install (which includes compiling) the software with your specific
preferences--this is what makes Gentoo what it is.
While this is true and one of the things that makes gentoo gentoo,
there are already binary packages in portage. mozilla-bin,
openoffice-bin. Mostly big packages which take some time to compile.
So the idea of having a pre-compiled KDE isn't that alien to the
world of gentoo..
Oh, phooey, Gerhard (sorry).
People, it's not like KDE just got huge yesterday or something.
There's a whole herd that has to manage the installation parameters of
KDE, version after verson, and that is no easy task... plus they had to
manage the migration to the split ebuilds, which was even more difficult
(and they did an outstanding job; it went quite smoothly overall, if you
think about it).
Do you think that these people wouldn't make their work easier if they
could, if making their work easier provided an overwhelming benefit to
Gentoo as a whole?
Does it never occur to you that there might be a *reason* that KDE is
not provided as a full binary package (in *addition* to the
compile-only, thank you very much, since some of us only use some KDE
programs and don't want the full-bloat KDE installed just to do so)?
After all, you can both compile or install the packages named above
(mozilla, firefox, thunderbird, OO.o). But not KDE.
Why, oh why? Why did KDE go to splitting the packages that make up the
DE, rather than making the DE even more monolithic somehow (if that is
possible)?
There is obviously some overriding benefit to modularity for the KDE
team (as for the X.org team, which is also migrating to a modular format
for their packge), and this benefit migrates down to Gentoo as a
source-based distro (as opposed to binary based distros like Mandriva or
FC, which seem much less likely to find an advantage from modular packages).
So take advantage of the benefit, instead of complaining. You need/want
all of KDE, but do you need/want all of it /now/?
What's wrong with emerging kdebase-meta to get a basic session, and
/then/ emerging whatever odds and ends you need from it, or -- perish
the thought-- emerging something small like IceWM first (you should have
a fallback WM anyway, in case KDE breaks), and then logging into /that/
and emerging kde-meta, if you must have every single part of KDE right
now, up to and including every pointless part that you are not going to
use until next month, if ever?
Both kdegames-meta and kdeedu-meta are dependencies of kde-meta.
Honestly, do you actually /need/ to be _/sure/_ that kjumpingcube and
kenolaba are installed before you log into your first session
(kdegames-meta dependencies)? Is logging into your session beyond
pointless if klatin is not installed (kdeedu-meta dependency)?
Apparently the KDE dev team doesn't think so, which is why they've made
it easier for /everybody/ to install a basic (and even relatively
full-featured) KDE session without having to wait for the massive number
of optional KDE packages to compile (don't forget, the maintainers of
any given binary distro have to compile all of this stuff too, to
provide the binary, and people on dial-up likely appreciate the cost
savings of smaller binaries to install).
And of course, it's a massive benefit to people who don't use all of KDE;
from people like me who use almost none, to people like my
mother-in-law, who --if she used Linux-- would likely only use the basic
session, Konq, KMail, and KOffice and maybe kpatience.
Figuring out what you actually need takes time, but you'd still save
time by emerging only that and skipping the rest. If you must have a
binary, then use the --buildpkg option to create one, back it up, and
make a nice KDE Packages disk for the future.
NAME
emerge - Command-line interface to the Portage system
--buildpkg (-b)
Tells emerge to build binary packages for all ebuilds
processed in addition to actually merging the packages. Useful for
maintainers or if you administrate multiple Gentoo Linux
systems (build once, emerge tbz2s everywhere). The package will
be created in the ${PKGDIR}/All directory. An
alternative for already-merged packages is to use quickpkg which creates a
tbz2 from the live filesystem.
Feel like a member of the dev team-- that's what they'd have to do to
provide such a disk themselves, so why shouldn't you do it for yourself
if you need it?
Holly
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
On Saturday 10 December 2005 11:58, Holly Bostick wrote: Gerhard Hoogterp schreef: While this is true and one of the things that makes gentoo gentoo, there are already binary packages in portage. mozilla-bin, openoffice-bin. Mostly big packages which take some time to compile. So the idea of having a pre-compiled KDE isn't that alien to the world of gentoo.. Oh, phooey, Gerhard (sorry). NP.. happily phooey away..;-) It wasn't my question and I already did my compile session.. Only 3 days due to some hurdles, toxml who dosn't know about its dependency on libxlst and hal wanting a newer kernel (but not MM- as it doesn't seem to have the needed feature.. so back to gentoo kernel.. ) But oh well, that's the goodness that's gentoo and sorting it out yourself gives on that soft glowing almost-guru feeling..;-) People, it's not like KDE just got huge yesterday or something. Nope, but on a slow machine it IS big.. and trying to keep an 400mhz amd-k6 somewhat up to date as a gateway (without KDE, but compiling glibc or apache/php/mysql isn't much fun either) I can see that's a problem for some. Of course the question is if they should run kde on such a machine, but that's up to them.. I don't blame them for asking. But seeing my hurdles while upgrading, I doubt that just binary kde packages is going to help them much. Gerhard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 11:58:19 +0100, Holly Bostick wrote: There is obviously some overriding benefit to modularity for the KDE team (as for the X.org team, which is also migrating to a modular format for their packge), and this benefit migrates down to Gentoo as a source-based distro (as opposed to binary based distros like Mandriva or FC, which seem much less likely to find an advantage from modular packages). Debian and Mandrake were using fine-grained packages for KDE years ago. Gentoo is one of the last distros to split KDE, presumably because it is that much more involved with a source-based system. -- Neil Bothwick Windows 98, the most installed system in the world, I know, I've done it 5 or 6 times myself. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 15:55 -0600, Harry Putnam wrote: I'll probably need the asbestos drawers here shortly: I've burned up several hours here with a grindingly slow compile of kde. It is an older machine ( a few years) but is a P4 2Ghz and 500MB ram. Is there an alternative to this? I mean aside from using a lighter, faster compiling, X setup. Is there some burning important reason why we need to throw away hours and hours compiling kde? Wouldn't a binary distribution of kde serve as well in most ways? Okay, selfplugging a bit here, but thats ok, I've got a permit. Or wait, no I don't, so it seems that this is still unofficial and unsupported by others than me and then only at best effort: http://chinstrap.alternating.net/ -- begin .signature Tortured users / Laughing in pain See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information. end signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
I'll probably need the asbestos drawers here shortly: I've burned up several hours here with a grindingly slow compile of kde. It is an older machine ( a few years) but is a P4 2Ghz and 500MB ram. Is there an alternative to this? I mean aside from using a lighter, faster compiling, X setup. I've been away from Fedora now for about a year I guess. I left Fedora and redhat after nearly 10yrs because the updates had gotten to where it was every few mnths a full reinstall. I liked gentoo because one can update cleanly without a full reinstall, but now I'm losing what seems even more time with really slow compilations Just on the face of it, it seems somewhat unreasonable with modern software and powerfull computers, to need to spend this amount of time just to get working software running. I seem to recall a kde install being a matter that consumed something like 1/2 hr on Fedora. Must be that those packages are already compiled? Is that an option for us? Is there some burning important reason why we need to throw away hours and hours compiling kde? Wouldn't a binary distribution of kde serve as well in most ways? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
On Friday 09 December 2005 16:55, Harry Putnam wrote: Check out Kubuntu dude. It's probably right up your alley. This is *not* an anti-Gentoo email. I 100% love Gentoo, and will continue to use it! (Puts asbestos suit back in the drawer...) I'll probably need the asbestos drawers here shortly: I've burned up several hours here with a grindingly slow compile of kde. It is an older machine ( a few years) but is a P4 2Ghz and 500MB ram. Is there an alternative to this? I mean aside from using a lighter, faster compiling, X setup. I've been away from Fedora now for about a year I guess. I left Fedora and redhat after nearly 10yrs because the updates had gotten to where it was every few mnths a full reinstall. I liked gentoo because one can update cleanly without a full reinstall, but now I'm losing what seems even more time with really slow compilations Just on the face of it, it seems somewhat unreasonable with modern software and powerfull computers, to need to spend this amount of time just to get working software running. I seem to recall a kde install being a matter that consumed something like 1/2 hr on Fedora. Must be that those packages are already compiled? Is that an option for us? Is there some burning important reason why we need to throw away hours and hours compiling kde? Wouldn't a binary distribution of kde serve as well in most ways? -- Han Solo: Oh! I thought they smelled bad on the *outside*! -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
Gentoo is a source-based distribution. This means that the software you receive comes in the form of source code. It's up to you to install (which includes compiling) the software with your specific preferences--this is what makes Gentoo what it is.If you like, you can add an emerge option that will build a binary file for you after it's done compiling. Doing this will allow you to install from binary on future or additional installs (if you're setting up more than one system).Installations can take a bit longer than the traditional binary-based distros. However, what you get is a refined Linux install that include only what you asked to be installed. There's no bloat about it--you control every part of the installation. You can also look at it another way: Going through the process of installing Gentoo will make you much more familiar with Linux than your average distro, if you're not already there. ;-D ~ TomHarry Putnam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll probably need the asbestos drawers here shortly:I've burned up several hours here with a grindingly slow compile ofkde. It is an older machine ( a few years) but is a P4 2Ghz and 500MBram. Is there an alternative to this? I mean aside from using alighter, faster compiling, X setup.I've been away from Fedora now for about a year I guess. I leftFedora and redhat after nearly 10yrs because the updates had gotten towhere it was every few mnths a full reinstall. I liked gentoo becauseone can update cleanly without a full reinstall, but now I'm losingwhat seems even more time with really slow compilationsJust on the face of it, it seems somewhat unreasonable with modernsoftware and powerfull computers, to need to spen! d this amount of timejust to get working software running.I seem to recall a kde install being a matter that consumed somethinglike 1/2 hr on Fedora. Must be that those packages are alreadycompiled?Is that an option for us?Is there some burning important reason why we need to throw away hoursand hours compiling kde? Wouldn't a binary distribution of kde serveas well in most ways?-- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
On Friday 09 December 2005 23:20, Tom Smith wrote: Gentoo is a source-based distribution. This means that the software you receive comes in the form of source code. It's up to you to install (which includes compiling) the software with your specific preferences--this is what makes Gentoo what it is. While this is true and one of the things that makes gentoo gentoo, there are already binary packages in portage. mozilla-bin, openoffice-bin. Mostly big packages which take some time to compile. So the idea of having a pre-compiled KDE isn't that alien to the world of gentoo.. Gerhard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
Gerhard Hoogterp wrote: While this is true and one of the things that makes gentoo gentoo, there are already binary packages in portage. mozilla-bin, openoffice-bin. Mostly big packages which take some time to compile. So the idea of having a pre-compiled KDE isn't that alien to the world of gentoo.. Gerhard And to think I still compile Open Office. I even compiled it on a 400Mhz rig once. Does anyone type in a command then take a nap? I'm disabled and do get some rest but I do wake up on occasion. LOL Gentoo is for those who want to compile from source. Having the option for binaries may be OK, but I doubt there is enough people going to use it for all the effort. Somebody has to still wait on it to finish compiling. Dale :-) -- To err is human, I'm most certainly human. I have four rigs: 1: Home built; Abit NF7 ver 2.0 w/ AMD 2500+ CPU, 1GB of ram and right now two 80GB hard drives. 2: Home built; Iwill KK266-R w/ AMD 1GHz CPU, 256MBs of ram and a 4GB drive. 3: Home built; Gigabyte GA-71XE4 w/ 800MHz CPU, 128MBs of ram and a 2.5GB drive. 4: Compaq Proliant 6000 Server w/ Quad 200MHz CPUs, 128MBs of ram and a 4.3GB SCSI drive. All run Gentoo, all run folding. #1 is my desktop, 2, 3, and 4 are set up as servers. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
Well,I learn something new every day. I recalled reading in one of the Gentoo install docs that there was no way to download binary cuts of apps. Since there are /some/, KDE would probably be a good candidate for this... I agree. (I spent around two days anxiously waiting for KDE to compile.)Another option for the original poster is ccache. The initial install will still take some time but recompiles are said to proceed much faster.~ TomGerhard Hoogterp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 09 December 2005 23:20, Tom Smith wrote: Gentoo is a source-based distribution. This means that the software you receive comes in the form of source code. It's up to you to install (which includes compiling) the software with your specific preferences-! -this is what makes Gentoo what it is.While this is true and one of the things that makes gentoo gentoo, there are already binary packages in portage. mozilla-bin, openoffice-bin. Mostly big packages which take some time to compile. So the idea of having a pre-compiled KDE isn't that alien to the world of gentoo..Gerhard-- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
On Saturday 10 December 2005 06:55, Harry Putnam wrote: I'll probably need the asbestos drawers here shortly: I've burned up several hours here with a grindingly slow compile of kde. It is an older machine ( a few years) but is a P4 2Ghz and 500MB ram. Is there an alternative to this? I mean aside from using a lighter, faster compiling, X setup. sure, why are you emerge-ing the full kde? 1) `emerge kdebase` 2) ??? 3) Profit! I'm on a 1.6ghz, and being a dev I compile more packages than most users ever will, have patience my son :P. Chris White pgpjIqenCye97.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 23:35:43 +0100, Gerhard Hoogterp wrote: While this is true and one of the things that makes gentoo gentoo, there are already binary packages in portage. mozilla-bin, openoffice-bin. Mostly big packages which take some time to compile. So the idea of having a pre-compiled KDE isn't that alien to the world of gentoo.. Those binary packages are supplied by upstream, it's not the same as the Gentoo devs providing compiled packages, although they do in the GRP collections. It's no big deal upgrading KDE anyway. Set PORTAGE_NICENESS to a suitable value and you can keep using the computer while the new KDE is compiled in the background. KDE is slotted, so installing 3.5 has no effect on the 3.4.x version you are currently using. -- Neil Bothwick She's fine, upstanding, and wonderful laying down. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there and Alternative to compiling kde?
Chris White wrote: On Saturday 10 December 2005 06:55, Harry Putnam wrote: I'll probably need the asbestos drawers here shortly: I've burned up several hours here with a grindingly slow compile of kde. It is an older machine ( a few years) but is a P4 2Ghz and 500MB ram. Is there an alternative to this? I mean aside from using a lighter, faster compiling, X setup. sure, why are you emerge-ing the full kde? 1) `emerge kdebase` 2) ??? 3) Profit! I'm on a 1.6ghz, and being a dev I compile more packages than most users ever will, have patience my son :P. Chris White He should have been here when I installed Gentoo on a 200Mhz machine. Dale :-) -- To err is human, I'm most certainly human. I have four rigs: 1: Home built; Abit NF7 ver 2.0 w/ AMD 2500+ CPU, 1GB of ram and right now two 80GB hard drives. 2: Home built; Iwill KK266-R w/ AMD 1GHz CPU, 256MBs of ram and a 4GB drive. 3: Home built; Gigabyte GA-71XE4 w/ 800MHz CPU, 128MBs of ram and a 2.5GB drive. 4: Compaq Proliant 6000 Server w/ Quad 200MHz CPUs, 128MBs of ram and a 4.3GB SCSI drive. All run Gentoo, all run folding. #1 is my desktop, 2, 3, and 4 are set up as servers. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
