Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:40:48 -0600 Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Philip Webb wrote: 071218 Sergey Kobzar wrote: - ReiserFS looks unsupported now What do you base that assessment on ? It's true that RFS 4 was going nowhere even before its creator's legal problems, but RFS 3 is still well-supported as a Gentoo pkg, isn't it ? When I installed Gentoo on my new desktop machine recently, I used RFS 3 for everything except /boot (which is Ext2). I too use ReiserFS for everything but /boot. I used to use it for that but the 32MB thing sort of got me to change it to ext3. I have had no problems with file system errors. I have three hard drives and 9 partitions, 8 are ReiserFS, and it works great. I may even give ReiserFS 4 a shot in the future. I'm not sure if it is even being developed any more tho. Anybody hear anything on that? Dale :-) :-) :-) I, too, use reiserfs for everything I can. EXT3, the last time I used it, is much slower, Sure, you can tweak it, but you can do that to Reiser too. I trust it now, and don't intend to switch to anything else any time soon. I have always found this FS review well presented and very useful: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/388 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Thursday 20 December 2007, Dan Farrell wrote: On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:40:48 -0600 Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Philip Webb wrote: 071218 Sergey Kobzar wrote: - ReiserFS looks unsupported now What do you base that assessment on ? It's true that RFS 4 was going nowhere even before its creator's legal problems, but RFS 3 is still well-supported as a Gentoo pkg, isn't it ? When I installed Gentoo on my new desktop machine recently, I used RFS 3 for everything except /boot (which is Ext2). I too use ReiserFS for everything but /boot. I used to use it for that but the 32MB thing sort of got me to change it to ext3. I have had no problems with file system errors. I have three hard drives and 9 partitions, 8 are ReiserFS, and it works great. I may even give ReiserFS 4 a shot in the future. I'm not sure if it is even being developed any more tho. Anybody hear anything on that? Dale :-) :-) :-) I, too, use reiserfs for everything I can. EXT3, the last time I used it, is much slower, Sure, you can tweak it, but you can do that to Reiser too. I trust it now, and don't intend to switch to anything else any time soon. I have always found this FS review well presented and very useful: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/388 Hmm, this article suggests that XFS is the best thing since sliced bread . . . especially for files greater than 500MB. Not sure I've got many of these. Has anyone got a particularly good experience with XFS vs e.g. Reiserfs? What about JFS? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
Mick wrote: On Thursday 20 December 2007, Dan Farrell wrote: On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:40:48 -0600 Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Philip Webb wrote: 071218 Sergey Kobzar wrote: - ReiserFS looks unsupported now What do you base that assessment on ? It's true that RFS 4 was going nowhere even before its creator's legal problems, but RFS 3 is still well-supported as a Gentoo pkg, isn't it ? When I installed Gentoo on my new desktop machine recently, I used RFS 3 for everything except /boot (which is Ext2). I too use ReiserFS for everything but /boot. I used to use it for that but the 32MB thing sort of got me to change it to ext3. I have had no problems with file system errors. I have three hard drives and 9 partitions, 8 are ReiserFS, and it works great. I may even give ReiserFS 4 a shot in the future. I'm not sure if it is even being developed any more tho. Anybody hear anything on that? Dale :-) :-) :-) I, too, use reiserfs for everything I can. EXT3, the last time I used it, is much slower, Sure, you can tweak it, but you can do that to Reiser too. I trust it now, and don't intend to switch to anything else any time soon. I have always found this FS review well presented and very useful: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/388 Hmm, this article suggests that XFS is the best thing since sliced bread . . . especially for files greater than 500MB. Not sure I've got many of these. Has anyone got a particularly good experience with XFS vs e.g. Reiserfs? What about JFS? My only experience with XFS was a nightmare. It's good if you have a UPS that will take care of power outages but it does not like a sudden power failure. Reiserfs doesn't seem to mind the failure of a local power company. The rig that did have XFS on it got a reinstall with reiserfs. It was running Mandrake and had no UPS with several power failures after which it would no longer boot up. I'm not saying not to use XFS, just pointing out a weakness that I found. Dale :-) :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On 20 Dec 2007, at 21:34, Mick wrote: ... Hmm, this article suggests that XFS is the best thing since sliced bread . . . especially for files greater than 500MB. Not sure I've got many of these. A TV episode might well be 700meg. Has anyone got a particularly good experience with XFS vs e.g. Reiserfs? What about JFS? XFS - runs great on Irix! Stroller. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:34:53 +, Mick wrote: Hmm, this article suggests that XFS is the best thing since sliced bread . . . especially for files greater than 500MB. Not sure I've got many of these. I found that too, so I use XFS for partitions that handle large files (ISO images, video editing, MythTV etc.) -- Neil Bothwick I need your clothes, your boots, and your tagline! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
Mick wrote: Hmm, this article suggests that XFS is the best thing since sliced bread . . . especially for files greater than 500MB. Not sure I've got many of these. Has anyone got a particularly good experience with XFS vs e.g. Reiserfs? What about JFS? I have used xfs on 2 Gentoo servers for the last year of so - several power outages, no problems: $ df -m Filesystem 1M-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/md/2 52994 435 18% / /dev/md/0 12916 114 13% /boot /dev/md/3 3911 2060 1852 53% /tmp /dev/md/4 3911 473 3439 13% /var /dev/md/519537 5710 13828 30% /usr /dev/md/619537 5852 13686 30% /home /dev/md/7 104841 41208 63634 40% /data0 Previous to that I used xfs on Mandake... before 'seeing the light' and moving to Gentoo... :-) . Conversly my experience with reiserfs has been consistent data corruption... so I avoid using it (mind you it's probably fine *now*, this was a few years ago). Cheers Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
I wrote: I have used xfs on 2 Gentoo servers for the last year of so - several power outages, no problems: $ df -m Doh! meant to type 'mount' not 'df': $ mount /dev/md/2 on / type xfs (rw,noatime) /dev/md/0 on /boot type xfs (rw,noatime) /dev/md/3 on /tmp type xfs (rw,noatime) /dev/md/4 on /var type xfs (rw,noatime) /dev/md/5 on /usr type xfs (rw,noatime) /dev/md/6 on /home type xfs (rw,noatime) /dev/md/7 on /data0 type xfs (rw,noatime) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Wednesday 19 December 2007 00:01:45 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: ... we're talking about laptops, so a sudden loss of power is not something that could happen at any moment. Unless its battery is in the same clapped-out state as mine. -- Rgds Peter -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Wednesday 19 December 2007, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Mittwoch, 19. Dezember 2007, Philip Webb wrote: 071218 Sergey Kobzar wrote: - ReiserFS looks unsupported now What do you base that assessment on ? It's true that RFS 4 was going nowhere even before its creator's legal problems, but RFS 3 is still well-supported as a Gentoo pkg, isn't it ? reiserfs is still supported by its devs. It is just in maintenance-mode. No features added, just bug fixes. Some people confuse that with 'unsupported'. And one look at the reiserfs-ml would show all the people claiming that reiserfs or reiser4 are unsuppored wrong. I have been using reiserfs since 2003/04 on all sort of different boxen and xfs on /usr/portage on my laptop for the last two years. I set up reiserfs for everything except /boot on a particular desktop machine, which had some incompatible memory modules on a super-sensitive MoBo that caused it to crash as often as twice a day, some times more. Over a period of two years this amounts to an awful lot of crashes midstream of emerging packages, updating portage and what not. I never lost any data, although once I ended up with all the access rights on some files being switched to . More recently said box corrupted a reiserfs partition (due to some handfisted action of mine) while it was clearing out ccache. A --fix-fixable wouldn't cut it, but --rebuild-tree got it back up on its feet in no time. On the other hand, my laptop's xfs /usr/portage partition has corrupted itself irreparably at least 3-4 times so far, on a healthy battery. That said it's been behaving well over the last year or so. I don't mean to generalise with the above observations, which may well be not representative of the respective file systems. However, I built a SUSE machine last month for a small office and I had no hesitation using reiserfs for all partitions including lvm. YMMV. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] FS for laptop
Hi guys, I just had discussion with my friend which file system to use on laptop with Gentoo. - ReiserFS looks unsupported now - ext3 looks slow some time - XFS maybe? Requirements are: - low memory usage - fast enough for laptop - good supported Any ideas? -- Sergey -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Tuesday 18 December 2007 03:56:10 pm Sergey Kobzar wrote: Hi guys, I just had discussion with my friend which file system to use on laptop with Gentoo. - ReiserFS looks unsupported now - ext3 looks slow some time - XFS maybe? Requirements are: - low memory usage - fast enough for laptop - good supported Any ideas? Plenty... Yes, all laptops need a journaled FS. The easiest I've found to install and then admin is EXT3. If you feel that you need anything more powerful then you should move your work to a desktop. As a side note, I've been using ext4dev as an expirement and I find it quite nice. However, be aware, once you enable extents as a boot option and cause writes to the disk (ie. save a file, etc)... you can never go back to ext3 or plain old ext2 without a format. Cheers. -- From the Desk of: Jerome D. McBride -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Dienstag, 18. Dezember 2007, Jerry McBride wrote: On Tuesday 18 December 2007 03:56:10 pm Sergey Kobzar wrote: Hi guys, I just had discussion with my friend which file system to use on laptop with Gentoo. - ReiserFS looks unsupported now - ext3 looks slow some time - XFS maybe? Requirements are: - low memory usage - fast enough for laptop - good supported Any ideas? Plenty... Yes, all laptops need a journaled FS. The easiest I've found to install and then admin is EXT3. If you feel that you need anything more powerful then you should move your work to a desktop. As a side note, I've been using ext4dev as an expirement and I find it quite nice. However, be aware, once you enable extents as a boot option and cause writes to the disk (ie. save a file, etc)... you can never go back to ext3 or plain old ext2 without a format. if we are at recommending experimental fs, why not reiser4? Its atomic structure makes it very nice - and so far it survived a lot of crap it had to endure (like a lot of reset-button and plugs out of socket events). And reiser4 has less bug reports than ext3 :P But to get back on track: as long as he stays away from XFS it should not matter which fs he chooses (well, except jfs...) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Tuesday 18 December 2007 04:37:30 pm Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Dienstag, 18. Dezember 2007, Jerry McBride wrote: On Tuesday 18 December 2007 03:56:10 pm Sergey Kobzar wrote: Hi guys, I just had discussion with my friend which file system to use on laptop with Gentoo. - ReiserFS looks unsupported now - ext3 looks slow some time - XFS maybe? Requirements are: - low memory usage - fast enough for laptop - good supported Any ideas? Plenty... Yes, all laptops need a journaled FS. The easiest I've found to install and then admin is EXT3. If you feel that you need anything more powerful then you should move your work to a desktop. As a side note, I've been using ext4dev as an expirement and I find it quite nice. However, be aware, once you enable extents as a boot option and cause writes to the disk (ie. save a file, etc)... you can never go back to ext3 or plain old ext2 without a format. if we are at recommending experimental fs, why not reiser4? Its atomic structure makes it very nice - and so far it survived a lot of crap it had to endure (like a lot of reset-button and plugs out of socket events). And reiser4 has less bug reports than ext3 :P You mean bug reports that got fixed? :') But to get back on track: as long as he stays away from XFS it should not matter which fs he chooses (well, except jfs...) -- From the Desk of: Jerome D. McBride -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Dienstag, 18. Dezember 2007, Jerry McBride wrote: On Tuesday 18 December 2007 04:37:30 pm Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Dienstag, 18. Dezember 2007, Jerry McBride wrote: On Tuesday 18 December 2007 03:56:10 pm Sergey Kobzar wrote: Hi guys, I just had discussion with my friend which file system to use on laptop with Gentoo. - ReiserFS looks unsupported now - ext3 looks slow some time - XFS maybe? Requirements are: - low memory usage - fast enough for laptop - good supported Any ideas? Plenty... Yes, all laptops need a journaled FS. The easiest I've found to install and then admin is EXT3. If you feel that you need anything more powerful then you should move your work to a desktop. As a side note, I've been using ext4dev as an expirement and I find it quite nice. However, be aware, once you enable extents as a boot option and cause writes to the disk (ie. save a file, etc)... you can never go back to ext3 or plain old ext2 without a format. if we are at recommending experimental fs, why not reiser4? Its atomic structure makes it very nice - and so far it survived a lot of crap it had to endure (like a lot of reset-button and plugs out of socket events). And reiser4 has less bug reports than ext3 :P You mean bug reports that got fixed? :') when I look at the reiser-ml there is only one open bug I can see - and the last bug fix for some bug came in two days ago. Hm, in that time another XFS bug report hit lkml ... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Dec 18, 2007 2:56 PM, Sergey Kobzar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, [...] - ext3 looks slow some time The defaults are slow, but you can change them and make it OK. Not super fast, but OK. Check out /usr/src/linux/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt, and tweak the obvious options. data=writeback and commit=300 in particular works fine in my VAIO laptop. And we're talking about laptops, so a sudden loss of power is not something that could happen at any moment. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM z� ��(��j)b� b�
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Mittwoch, 19. Dezember 2007, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Dec 18, 2007 2:56 PM, Sergey Kobzar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, [...] - ext3 looks slow some time The defaults are slow, but you can change them and make it OK. Not super fast, but OK. Check out /usr/src/linux/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt, and tweak the obvious options. data=writeback and commit=300 in particular works fine in my VAIO laptop. And we're talking about laptops, so a sudden loss of power is not something that could happen at any moment. there is still 'didn't resume correctly' or 'froze and had to hit reset' which is as harmfull as power loss. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
071218 Sergey Kobzar wrote: - ReiserFS looks unsupported now What do you base that assessment on ? It's true that RFS 4 was going nowhere even before its creator's legal problems, but RFS 3 is still well-supported as a Gentoo pkg, isn't it ? When I installed Gentoo on my new desktop machine recently, I used RFS 3 for everything except /boot (which is Ext2). -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Dec 18, 2007 6:40 PM, Hemmann, Volker Armin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mittwoch, 19. Dezember 2007, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Dec 18, 2007 2:56 PM, Sergey Kobzar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, [...] - ext3 looks slow some time The defaults are slow, but you can change them and make it OK. Not super fast, but OK. Check out /usr/src/linux/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt, and tweak the obvious options. data=writeback and commit=300 in particular works fine in my VAIO laptop. And we're talking about laptops, so a sudden loss of power is not something that could happen at any moment. there is still 'didn't resume correctly' or 'froze and had to hit reset' which is as harmfull as power loss. It's been *months* since I had any trouble with suspend/resume with my laptop; but if you are really that paranoid you can always edit /usr/lib/hal/scripts/linux/hal-system-power-suspend-linux and /usr/lib/hal/scripts/linux/hal-system-power-hibernate-linux and do a 'sync' before the suspend; problem solved. If you use gnome-power-manager (or the HAL-aware KDE equivalent) to suspend/resume, of course; if you do it by other means I'm sure you can put the sync command in some other place. (And actually, I'm pretty sure HAL does the sync by itself; it would be idiotic not to do it.) And BTW, AFAIK the same thing happens with *all* the journaled filesystems, but the data=ordered and commit=5 as default in ext3 is because the developers are more concerned with data integrity. Journaled filesystems are not meant to guarantee data integrity; they guarantee *filesystem* integrity. Meaning: you can lost some of your work, but the filesystem will be OK and no fsck is required (in the old days that could be *REALLY* slow). With ext3 using data=writeback, commit=300 and you get a failed resume and you (or HAL) did't sync before resuming, you at mos lost five minutes of work; everything else will be a-OK. Which is the point of the journaled filesystems, of course. But that's only my advice: years ago I lost a chapter of my BS thesis thanks to ReiserFS. I'm sure they got way better (because a lot of folks use it), but if there is something you can say about ext2/ext3, is that they are the *most* stable filesystems available. That's the reason of the slow defaults (data=ordered and commit=5); the developers guarantee that, out of the box, ext3 will guarantee filesystem integrity (as all the journaled filesystems do) AND it will protect your data at all cost. With data=writeback and commit=300, ext3 behaves as all the other journaled filesystems (AFAIK; I haven't checked the progress in filesystems in a while): it only guarantees the filesystem integrity, meaning you *could* (it would be difficult anyway) loss 5 minutes of work. See your options; but I'm using Linux since 1996, and Gentoo since 2003, and I have *never* loss data with ext2 and ext3. With ext3 being journaled, of course. And I use suspend all the time in my laptop. In my desktop I use the ext3 default options; my UPS is old and is not working that well, and besides my desktop uses SATA and is *stupidly* fast, so you don't see the performance penalty. Good luck; let us know what you decide. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
Philip Webb wrote: 071218 Sergey Kobzar wrote: - ReiserFS looks unsupported now What do you base that assessment on ? It's true that RFS 4 was going nowhere even before its creator's legal problems, but RFS 3 is still well-supported as a Gentoo pkg, isn't it ? When I installed Gentoo on my new desktop machine recently, I used RFS 3 for everything except /boot (which is Ext2). I too use ReiserFS for everything but /boot. I used to use it for that but the 32MB thing sort of got me to change it to ext3. I have had no problems with file system errors. I have three hard drives and 9 partitions, 8 are ReiserFS, and it works great. I may even give ReiserFS 4 a shot in the future. I'm not sure if it is even being developed any more tho. Anybody hear anything on that? Dale :-) :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Mittwoch, 19. Dezember 2007, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Dec 18, 2007 6:40 PM, Hemmann, Volker Armin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mittwoch, 19. Dezember 2007, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Dec 18, 2007 2:56 PM, Sergey Kobzar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, [...] - ext3 looks slow some time The defaults are slow, but you can change them and make it OK. Not super fast, but OK. Check out /usr/src/linux/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt, and tweak the obvious options. data=writeback and commit=300 in particular works fine in my VAIO laptop. And we're talking about laptops, so a sudden loss of power is not something that could happen at any moment. there is still 'didn't resume correctly' or 'froze and had to hit reset' which is as harmfull as power loss. It's been *months* since I had any trouble with suspend/resume with my laptop; but if you are really that paranoid you can always edit /usr/lib/hal/scripts/linux/hal-system-power-suspend-linux and /usr/lib/hal/scripts/linux/hal-system-power-hibernate-linux and do a 'sync' before the suspend; problem solved. If you use gnome-power-manager (or the HAL-aware KDE equivalent) to suspend/resume, of course; if you do it by other means I'm sure you can put the sync command in some other place. that won't help you if the box dies because battery runs dry in s2ram or when the crash happens while resuming and some stuff has been read and written. (And actually, I'm pretty sure HAL does the sync by itself; it would be idiotic not to do it.) sync echo mem /sys/power/state you don't need hal for stuff like that. In fact, you don't need hal at all. And maybe you should rethink your dependency on a 'tool' that is rewritten every odd month. You also might find this interessting: http://blog.cardoe.com/archives/2007/12/06/no-longer-maintaining-gentoos-hal/ just read the links. But you should have a barf bag ready. And BTW, AFAIK the same thing happens with *all* the journaled filesystems, but the data=ordered and commit=5 as default in ext3 is because the developers are more concerned with data integrity. Journaled filesystems are not meant to guarantee data integrity; they guarantee *filesystem* integrity. Meaning: you can lost some of your work, but the filesystem will be OK and no fsck is required (in the old days that could be *REALLY* slow). I know that. I am not a newbie. But XFS is especially bad at keeping data. But that's only my advice: years ago I lost a chapter of my BS thesis thanks to ReiserFS. I'm sure they got way better (because a lot of folks use it), but if there is something you can say about ext2/ext3, is that they are the *most* stable filesystems available. That's the reason of the slow defaults (data=ordered and commit=5); the developers guarantee that, out of the box, ext3 will guarantee filesystem integrity (as all the journaled filesystems do) AND it will protect your data at all cost. With data=writeback and commit=300, ext3 behaves as all the other journaled filesystems (AFAIK; I haven't checked the progress in filesystems in a while): it only guarantees the filesystem integrity, meaning you *could* (it would be difficult anyway) loss 5 minutes of work. yeah, well, that explains all the trouble people had with ext3 See your options; but I'm using Linux since 1996, and Gentoo since 2003, and I have *never* loss data with ext2 and ext3. With ext3 being journaled, of course. And I use suspend all the time in my laptop. well, I am using linux since kernel 2.2.10 and gentoo since 1.0 And I have seen data loss caused by ext2 and ext3. I also see the 'bug of the month' for ext3 on lkml (and the 'bug of the week' of xfs) People always remember their 'reiserfs' horror stories, but tend to forget ext3 horrors - and a lot of the most vocal ones don't even realize that reiserfs in early 2.4 (where most of the horror stories originate) was not bad - it just was broken by the constant vm-changes. And some devs not bothering cleaning up the mess (yes Rik, Andrea and Linus, I am looking at you ...). -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Mittwoch, 19. Dezember 2007, Philip Webb wrote: 071218 Sergey Kobzar wrote: - ReiserFS looks unsupported now What do you base that assessment on ? It's true that RFS 4 was going nowhere even before its creator's legal problems, but RFS 3 is still well-supported as a Gentoo pkg, isn't it ? reiserfs is still supported by its devs. It is just in maintenance-mode. No features added, just bug fixes. Some people confuse that with 'unsupported'. And one look at the reiserfs-ml would show all the people claiming that reiserfs or reiser4 are unsuppored wrong. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
