Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Am Montag 31 Oktober 2011, 17:21:23 schrieb Alex Schuster: Michael Mol writes: My point is that the numbers aren't what mattered here. My point is that SAMSUNG sold me a shoddy product, replaced it with another instance of the the same shoddy product, wouldn't replace it again, and never addressed a detailed technical report of a systemic problem in the same. Bad tech, bad customer service, and it looked like this was a more common scenario than among other manufacturers. All of it boiled down to a nasty case of being a bad candidate for spending time and money. Samsung, uh? Here's my story of today. My fried just bought two external USB drives. I wanted to know which brand the HD is, so I checked with hdparm -I, and googled for SAMSUNG HD204UI. I found a story about a bug which makes the drive sometimes forget to write a block when it is attached to a SATA adapter in AHCI mode and when the ATA command IDENTIFY DEVICE is sent (like in hdparm -I or when using the smartmontools). There is a firmware patch for this, this is good. But on the annoying side: - You need to make a DOS boot floppy and copy the patch there. nope, just use systemrescuecd. It has a freedos boot image (or had.. last time I needed it.. was long ago) - The new firmware has exactly the same revision number. How stupid is this?? I cannot even find out whether the drives have the problem or not. Except by trying to reproduce the problem. yes, that is stupid. but you can just run the patch agan. Here's a link to the but I described, but It's German only. http://www.heise.de/ct/meldung/Firmware-Patch-fuer-Samsung-Festplatte-EcoGre en-F4-HD204UI-Update-1150154.html I also read some angry comments about Samsung there. Question is, are other manufacturers better? And wasn't Samsung Electronics bought by Seagate anyway? yes Any idea whether an external USB drive case might count as a SATA controller in AHCI mode? I tried to trigger the bug, but that did not happen, so I guess it's fine, at least when being in the USB case. none. Get esata. Another problem is that data access frequently stalls on her PC, like when transferring data or doing a mke2fs. After a while, this message appears in syslog, and the process continues for a while, until it happens again: usb 1-4: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 7 your case is crap. Same problem with a GRML boot cd and on another USB port. Happens with both drives. But it is fine on my PC. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Michael Mol writes: My point is that the numbers aren't what mattered here. My point is that SAMSUNG sold me a shoddy product, replaced it with another instance of the the same shoddy product, wouldn't replace it again, and never addressed a detailed technical report of a systemic problem in the same. Bad tech, bad customer service, and it looked like this was a more common scenario than among other manufacturers. All of it boiled down to a nasty case of being a bad candidate for spending time and money. Samsung, uh? Here's my story of today. My fried just bought two external USB drives. I wanted to know which brand the HD is, so I checked with hdparm -I, and googled for SAMSUNG HD204UI. I found a story about a bug which makes the drive sometimes forget to write a block when it is attached to a SATA adapter in AHCI mode and when the ATA command IDENTIFY DEVICE is sent (like in hdparm -I or when using the smartmontools). There is a firmware patch for this, this is good. But on the annoying side: - You need to make a DOS boot floppy and copy the patch there. I don't know how exactly to do this, and I read about people using Linux who needed over an hour for this or even failed. Can't they just let me download an image I can boot from? - It doesn't work over USB, so I would have to install the drive in a PC. - The new firmware has exactly the same revision number. How stupid is this?? I cannot even find out whether the drives have the problem or not. Except by trying to reproduce the problem. Here's a link to the but I described, but It's German only. http://www.heise.de/ct/meldung/Firmware-Patch-fuer-Samsung-Festplatte-EcoGreen-F4-HD204UI-Update-1150154.html I also read some angry comments about Samsung there. Question is, are other manufacturers better? And wasn't Samsung Electronics bought by Seagate anyway? Any idea whether an external USB drive case might count as a SATA controller in AHCI mode? I tried to trigger the bug, but that did not happen, so I guess it's fine, at least when being in the USB case. Another problem is that data access frequently stalls on her PC, like when transferring data or doing a mke2fs. After a while, this message appears in syslog, and the process continues for a while, until it happens again: usb 1-4: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 7 Same problem with a GRML boot cd and on another USB port. Happens with both drives. But it is fine on my PC. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Alex Schuster wo...@wonkology.org wrote: Michael Mol writes: My point is that the numbers aren't what mattered here. My point is that SAMSUNG sold me a shoddy product, replaced it with another instance of the the same shoddy product, wouldn't replace it again, and never addressed a detailed technical report of a systemic problem in the same. Bad tech, bad customer service, and it looked like this was a more common scenario than among other manufacturers. All of it boiled down to a nasty case of being a bad candidate for spending time and money. Samsung, uh? Here's my story of today. My fried just bought two external USB drives. I wanted to know which brand the HD is, so I checked with hdparm -I, and googled for SAMSUNG HD204UI. I found a story about a bug which makes the drive sometimes forget to write a block when it is attached to a SATA adapter in AHCI mode and when the ATA command IDENTIFY DEVICE is sent (like in hdparm -I or when using the smartmontools). There is a firmware patch for this, this is good. But on the annoying side: That could very likely be the nature of the initial symptom for my second failed drive. I recall being angry about silent corruption, with SMART not reporting anything interesting. Drive failed differently later on, IIRC. I still have it in the same eSATA external enclosure I was using at the time. I'll have to look. - You need to make a DOS boot floppy and copy the patch there. I don't know how exactly to do this, and I read about people using Linux who needed over an hour for this or even failed. Can't they just let me download an image I can boot from? Any idea if it works from FreeDOS? - It doesn't work over USB, so I would have to install the drive in a PC. Does the enclosure doens't contain an eSATA port? That's almost certain to be a direct passthrough. - The new firmware has exactly the same revision number. How stupid is this?? I cannot even find out whether the drives have the problem or not. Except by trying to reproduce the problem. Sounds like the only way you can be certain the drives don't have the problem is by installing the patched firmware. Here's a link to the but I described, but It's German only. http://www.heise.de/ct/meldung/Firmware-Patch-fuer-Samsung-Festplatte-EcoGreen-F4-HD204UI-Update-1150154.html I also read some angry comments about Samsung there. Question is, are other manufacturers better? And wasn't Samsung Electronics bought by Seagate anyway? Any idea whether an external USB drive case might count as a SATA controller in AHCI mode? I tried to trigger the bug, but that did not happen, so I guess it's fine, at least when being in the USB case. The drive inside is SATA, so the USB enclosure is translating USB mass-storage commands to commands the SATA drive can understand. AFAIK, AHCI vs Legacy mode is a function of the SATA *controller*, not of the drive itself; legacy mode takes an older protocol, converts it to SATA commands, and then dispatches those SATA commands. I'll venture a guess that when going through Legacy mode, whatever commands trigger the bug aren't used in the Legacy-SATA conversion, whereas AHCI, with its closer-to-metal nature, exposes those commands for use. Whether or not the USB enclosure will trigger those bugs would depend on whether or not the USB Mass Storage-SATA translation uses those commands or not. (In my mind, this is feels like the old AGP-PCI Express transition. Early PCIe video cards were actually AGP cards with an AGP-PCIe bridge/adapter chip onboard, because it was faster and cheaper to get to market by throwing an adapter component in the sequence. However, I don't know enough about the ASIC market for USB hard drive enclosures to know whether chips with adapter layers (like that legacy-SATA command translation, but at a hardware level, making it USB-legacy-SATA) will be the cheaper part to source than chips which convert more directly between the USB Mass Storage and SATA protocols.) Another problem is that data access frequently stalls on her PC, like when transferring data or doing a mke2fs. After a while, this message appears in syslog, and the process continues for a while, until it happens again: usb 1-4: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 7 That looks incredibly familiar. I kept getting those, and then switched to my enclosure's eSATA port. That's when the drive started giving me different problems. At the time, I'd assumed it was the enclosure's USB components at fault. Same problem with a GRML boot cd and on another USB port. Happens with both drives. But it is fine on my PC. It sounds like the drives might be salvageable with a firmware patch, now. I'd suggest extracting the drives, plugging them into a PC, updating the firmware, and then putting them back in the enclosure. That way, you're certain the drives don't still have the known-buggy firmware, at the expense of
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Lots of HDD RPMs and company suggestions, but to the point... My two cents are: ESATA. I have multi TB external disks which I have physics data stored on and needs to be analyzed. USB might be as fast (in the best case), but it uses processor overhead. Not that a lot of machines support that kind of input. I picked up a decent laptop for cheap that also supports ESATA. I didn't do benchmarks or anything, but it's really insane IMO. ~daid PS Sorry I deleted all the reply text. I didn't want to copy/paste individual references to different company external drives and so on, just to not really care. Mine is something by Buffalo, but I care because it has ESATA. PPS Or you could be my friends using USB formated NTFS and I can use top to see how much processor power is used by ntfs-3g just to read the data. Ugh!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Florian Philipp wrote: Am 27.10.2011 19:30, schrieb Dale: I just wonder how much data they will be able to pack into a 3.5 drive tho. Hm. Surely they will run out of room at some point. I mean, the heads have got to have a little room to work with. Dale :-) :-) Well, then this story might cheer you up ;) http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/10/researchers-increase-hard-drive-density-sixfold-with-salt.ars Regards, Florian Philipp Good Golly Ms Molly. and have been able to fabricate magnetic storage media with a density of 3.3 terabits per square inch. What is there about 10 or 12 square inches for a 3.5 drive? That's about 30TBs. O_O That would take me a while to fill up even if I had a really fast DSL line. WOW !! H, NCIS, all the CSI's, Criminal Minds, Numb3rs, and lots of others. Heck, I could cut off DirecTv then. Just get that Hulu thingy and go nuts. Does Hulu work with Linux? Seems I read it doesn't. Anyway, still a LOT of shows. Dale Hulu works with Linux last time I tried but I typically use a Windows VM to watch it.. NetFlix works with Linux but only in a Windows VM. Amazon streams now but I haven't tried them yet. (Watch out for 'One Touch' and accidentally spending money...) Most of the TV networks have web site streaming of their programs which work in Linux. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that it would take 6TB to digitize the Library of Congress. Whether that's true or not, we're close to the point where every person can have a personal copy of the Library of Congress. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Florian Philipp wrote: Am 27.10.2011 19:30, schrieb Dale: I just wonder how much data they will be able to pack into a 3.5 drive tho. Hm. Surely they will run out of room at some point. I mean, the heads have got to have a little room to work with. Dale :-) :-) Well, then this story might cheer you up ;) http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/10/researchers-increase-hard-drive-density-sixfold-with-salt.ars Regards, Florian Philipp Good Golly Ms Molly. and have been able to fabricate magnetic storage media with a density of 3.3 terabits per square inch. What is there about 10 or 12 square inches for a 3.5 drive? That's about 30TBs. O_O That would take me a while to fill up even if I had a really fast DSL line. WOW !! H, NCIS, all the CSI's, Criminal Minds, Numb3rs, and lots of others. Heck, I could cut off DirecTv then. Just get that Hulu thingy and go nuts. Does Hulu work with Linux? Seems I read it doesn't. Anyway, still a LOT of shows. Dale Hulu works with Linux last time I tried but I typically use a Windows VM to watch it.. NetFlix works with Linux but only in a Windows VM. Amazon streams now but I haven't tried them yet. (Watch out for 'One Touch' and accidentally spending money...) Most of the TV networks have web site streaming of their programs which work in Linux. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that it would take 6TB to digitize the Library of Congress. Whether that's true or not, we're close to the point where every person can have a personal copy of the Library of Congress. - Mark I have to say this. I worked at a computer place in the late 80's. Back then a 25Mhz CPU was fast as lightening. Hard drives were maybe 100MBs. Memory, lucky if you have a 1 or 2Mbs. Now look where we are. I'm still trying to play Steve Jobs and imagine where we will be 20 years from now. I'm real bad to download videos. I have been working on NCIS here the past few weeks. I try to get HD when I can. One day I hope to hook my TV up to my puter. I have a HDMI connector on the video card and my TV has a couple on the back of it. I just don't know yet how to make them work or if they work already. I need to test that one day. Anyway, if I get enough stuff downloaded, I could in theory suspend DirecTv for a month or two. Put the money on some bills. Oh, I use downloadhelper to get the videos. It stopped working with Seamonkey 2.4 so back to using Firefox right now. It keeps crashing tho. Still scratching my head on that one. ;-) Hulu works with Linux huh? I got to remember that. I did know that Netflix didn't tho. I thought about trying it but they went up. Life. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: I have to say this. I worked at a computer place in the late 80's. Back then a 25Mhz CPU was fast as lightening. Hard drives were maybe 100MBs. Memory, lucky if you have a 1 or 2Mbs. Now look where we are. I'm still trying to play Steve Jobs and imagine where we will be 20 years from now. I've got a 157MB hard drive at home. My bio-dad gave it to me earlier this week in a stack of hard drives he was getting rid of. As for 80s computers...our first home computer was a Tandy RLX 1000. I convinced my mother to spend our savings on it, as I'd gotten hooked on programming with an Apple ][ at school. Kinda proud of her; she picked up programming quickly, took a few classes, really took to databases, and now she's a manager in the IT department at the local community college. I'm real bad to download videos. I have been working on NCIS here the past few weeks. I try to get HD when I can. One day I hope to hook my TV up to my puter. I have a HDMI connector on the video card and my TV has a couple on the back of it. I just don't know yet how to make them work or if they work already. I need to test that one day. It's really, really easy if you've ever done multimon under Linux. A television on that HDMI port will behave pretty much like a DVI monitor. Anyway, if I get enough stuff downloaded, I could in theory suspend DirecTv for a month or two. Put the money on some bills. Oh, I use downloadhelper to get the videos. It stopped working with Seamonkey 2.4 so back to using Firefox right now. It keeps crashing tho. Still scratching my head on that one. ;-) Hulu works with Linux huh? I got to remember that. I did know that Netflix didn't tho. I thought about trying it but they went up. Hulu works, Netflix doesn't. Amazon may, but if you have a network glitch and their server doesn't realize you're not pulling data any more, you have to wait a while before you try again. At least, that was my experience with them a bit over a year ago. (Real annoying when you go to show something to a group of friends on a/v night. Kills the mood and flow.) -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:15 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Amazon streams now but I haven't tried them yet. (Watch out for 'One Touch' and accidentally spending money...) Amazon streaming works fine in Linux (I've tried it), it just uses the plain old Adobe Flash plug-in.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 16:00:09 schrieb Michael Mol: On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 15:17:45 schrieb Michael Mol: On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 13:51:47 schrieb Michael Mol: Just don't buy a SAMSUNG drive. I know, I know, everyone has their pet Don't Buy Hard Drives Made By $x experience. Here's mine. I bought a 1TB SAMSUNG drive for cheap from Newegg at a Black Friday sale a couple years ago. It failed on me. Around the same time, I identified some flaws in the firmware which I considered severe[2]. Model=SAMSUNG MMCRE64G5MXP-0VB, FwRev=VBM1901Q, SerialNo=S0FDNEAZ600013 Model=SAMSUNG HD502IJ, FwRev=1AA01109, SerialNo=S13TJDWQ346413 Model=SAMSUNG HD753LJ, FwRev=1AA01113, SerialNo=S13UJ1CQB07158 Model=SAMSUNG HD502HJ, FwRev=1AJ100E5, SerialNo=S20BJDWS913888 Model=SAMSUNG HD103SJ, FwRev=1AJ10001, SerialNo=S246JD1Z910209 Model=SAMSUNG HD103SJ, FwRev=1AJ100E5, SerialNo=S246JDWSA20722 Oh, yeah it was THAT 2tb drive with the smart bug. Which was solved with an easy to do firmware update. I checked at the time. There was no firmware update, and, to my knowledge, there never was for the drive model that failed on me. Shortly after my second drive failed, Newegg discontinued selling model. (The most I remember about the model number can be expressed as a regex: HD10.*UI. I don't remember the firmware revision. It was the combination of historical problems, personal incidental experience and terrible customer service that led me to swear off SAMSUNG drives. Take away any one of those issues from my experiences at the time, and I'd consider buying another drive from them. You've got six working drives of various sizes, models and firmware revisions. Good for you. I've got a still-functional 40GB IBM DeathStar. (It's not powered up right now, but it never failed on me after five years of use.) and I had 5 death stars failing on me. My point is that the numbers aren't what mattered here. My point is that SAMSUNG sold me a shoddy product, replaced it with another instance of the the same shoddy product, wouldn't replace it again, and never addressed a detailed technical report of a systemic problem in the same. Bad tech, bad customer service, and it looked like this was a more common scenario than among other manufacturers. All of it boiled down to a nasty case of being a bad candidate for spending time and money. Samsung replaced my two drives (one 500gb drive from a known shady series and the SSD when the firmware overwrote itself) without any fuss. Of course, I included the results of their check tool. No problem. Did IBM refuse to replace your failing drives? no, but 5 out of 5 died and took tons of valuable data with them. That is the worst case scenario. All other harddrives had no problems at all. Different mobos, PSUs - nothing changed the fact that all death stars I ever owned died violently - except the last one, because I sold the computer it was built in in time. Did you include detailed technical information that should have allowed them to resolve issues leading to those drives' failures? For me, SAMSUNG's behavior in the customer service department indicated that I wasn't likely to get good service in the future, and the rapidly-failing drives (combined with my analysis of the SMART output and the history of SMART problems with SAMSUNG drives) indicated to me that I'd need to use that customer service department in the future if I bought more of their drives. there was one smart related problem with Samsung in the last year. With their 2tb drives. Samsung released a firmware patch after they were informed of the problem. Apart from that Samsung drives just work for me - and the people around me. I also had no problems with drives getting replaced - but the replacing was always the problem of my trusted hardware dealer. That is why you buy hdds from a trusted, local guy. The rest was the problem of Samsung. They can't wiggle out of Germany's warranty laws ;) So you've got six working drives, and a drive that works now that you patched the firmware. Congrats on choosing a model for which a firmware patch was made available (unless that was just luck...). Also, good luck if you have a failing drive that was sent to you by RMA. It's been a few years; if you're lucky, they may have cleaned up their act. In fact there were two: a 500gb from a known series, and the SSD. Both got replaced because both failed in the warranty period. They had no chance but had to replace them. It went quickly and without any fuss. I did run their check tool and reported the results. No more questions asked. Here is the old one, thanks for the new one. Western
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
(oi, it's getting harder and harder to snip this thing properly) On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 16:00:09 schrieb Michael Mol: On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 15:17:45 schrieb Michael Mol: You've got six working drives of various sizes, models and firmware revisions. Good for you. I've got a still-functional 40GB IBM DeathStar. (It's not powered up right now, but it never failed on me after five years of use.) and I had 5 death stars failing on me. My point is that the numbers aren't what mattered here. My point is that SAMSUNG sold me a shoddy product, replaced it with another instance of the the same shoddy product, wouldn't replace it again, and never addressed a detailed technical report of a systemic problem in the same. Bad tech, bad customer service, and it looked like this was a more common scenario than among other manufacturers. All of it boiled down to a nasty case of being a bad candidate for spending time and money. Samsung replaced my two drives (one 500gb drive from a known shady series and the SSD when the firmware overwrote itself) without any fuss. Of course, I included the results of their check tool. No problem. Did IBM refuse to replace your failing drives? no, but 5 out of 5 died and took tons of valuable data with them. That is the worst case scenario. All other harddrives had no problems at all. Different mobos, PSUs - nothing changed the fact that all death stars I ever owned died violently - except the last one, because I sold the computer it was built in in time. Did you include detailed technical information that should have allowed them to resolve issues leading to those drives' failures? For me, SAMSUNG's behavior in the customer service department indicated that I wasn't likely to get good service in the future, and the rapidly-failing drives (combined with my analysis of the SMART output and the history of SMART problems with SAMSUNG drives) indicated to me that I'd need to use that customer service department in the future if I bought more of their drives. there was one smart related problem with Samsung in the last year. With their 2tb drives. Samsung released a firmware patch after they were informed of the problem. Apart from that Samsung drives just work for me - and the people around me. I also had no problems with drives getting replaced - but the replacing was always the problem of my trusted hardware dealer. That is why you buy hdds from a trusted, local guy. The rest was the problem of Samsung. They can't wiggle out of Germany's warranty laws ;) Yeah, I bought mine from Newegg. Hard drive warranty through Newegg means see manufacturer. I've had no problem with WD's customer service. Haven't had occasion to try anyone but SAMSUNG and WD. Problem with buying locally where I am is that it generally means a 50% markup above what I'd pay Newegg. There are several big-box stores in the area whose prices and selections aren't great. There are three small computer stores within a 45 minute drive, and their selection tends to be better, but their prices tend to be worse. So you've got six working drives, and a drive that works now that you patched the firmware. Congrats on choosing a model for which a firmware patch was made available (unless that was just luck...). Also, good luck if you have a failing drive that was sent to you by RMA. It's been a few years; if you're lucky, they may have cleaned up their act. In fact there were two: a 500gb from a known series, and the SSD. Both got replaced because both failed in the warranty period. They had no chance but had to replace them. It went quickly and without any fuss. I did run their check tool and reported the results. No more questions asked. Here is the old one, thanks for the new one. Heh. Western Digital - two drives. They worked. They were lousy, noisy, lame, hot, but worked. Yup. I've had a couple WD drives fail, but most were replaced for other reasons first. I've got three WD drives spinning at home in various machines. Seagate: now 3 drives, 1 had to be replaced. It was pretty much dead on arrival, with a severe spindle defect. All three worked just fine until I replaced them Loving my Seagates. I've got four Seagates spinning at home, including one that's been my core drive since 2005 or 2005. Toshibaco have to check my Dell Poweredge what drives are in there... Yeah, I don't have any current Toshibas. IBM all death stars I ever owned failed except the last one - which was given away (and failed with its new owner). Which is the worst possible outcome. No customer support can outweight such a disaster. Not a unique story, by any stretch. IBM earned a reputation on that line. My point with bringing up my DeathStar was to highlight that all
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 7:18 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:15 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Amazon streams now but I haven't tried them yet. (Watch out for 'One Touch' and accidentally spending money...) Amazon streaming works fine in Linux (I've tried it), it just uses the plain old Adobe Flash plug-in. Therein apparently lies the problem for me. Adobe Flash no longer works on my machine since adding a second video card. I just tried Amazon in Firefox 7 and it just sits doing nothing. I _think_ this is related to using Xinerama on KDE but when I posted questions here (twice) I got no responses so it seems few people are doing this. For my futures trading I need 3 or 4 monitors and I couldn't make sense out of using X without Xinerama so I seem stuck, at least native in Gentoo. I suspect it's fine in a Windows VM but I've got Jimmy Kimmel running at the moment so I'll test that later. I REALLY, REALLY miss having all the OpenGL stuff you get with KDE. I had it with one Nvidia card but not with two... - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Am Freitag 28 Oktober 2011, 08:53:40 schrieb Mark Knecht: On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 7:18 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:15 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Amazon streams now but I haven't tried them yet. (Watch out for 'One Touch' and accidentally spending money...) Amazon streaming works fine in Linux (I've tried it), it just uses the plain old Adobe Flash plug-in. Therein apparently lies the problem for me. Adobe Flash no longer works on my machine since adding a second video card. I just tried Amazon in Firefox 7 and it just sits doing nothing. I _think_ this is related to using Xinerama on KDE but when I posted questions here (twice) I got no responses so it seems few people are doing this. For my futures trading I need 3 or 4 monitors and I couldn't make sense out of using X without Xinerama so I seem stuck, at least native in Gentoo. I suspect it's fine in a Windows VM but I've got Jimmy Kimmel running at the moment so I'll test that later. I REALLY, REALLY miss having all the OpenGL stuff you get with KDE. I had it with one Nvidia card but not with two... - Mark you don't need xinerama for multi-monitor setups. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Am Freitag 28 Oktober 2011, 11:19:37 schrieb Michael Mol: (oi, it's getting harder and harder to snip this thing properly) On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 16:00:09 schrieb Michael Mol: On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 15:17:45 schrieb Michael Mol: You've got six working drives of various sizes, models and firmware revisions. Good for you. I've got a still-functional 40GB IBM DeathStar. (It's not powered up right now, but it never failed on me after five years of use.) and I had 5 death stars failing on me. My point is that the numbers aren't what mattered here. My point is that SAMSUNG sold me a shoddy product, replaced it with another instance of the the same shoddy product, wouldn't replace it again, and never addressed a detailed technical report of a systemic problem in the same. Bad tech, bad customer service, and it looked like this was a more common scenario than among other manufacturers. All of it boiled down to a nasty case of being a bad candidate for spending time and money. Samsung replaced my two drives (one 500gb drive from a known shady series and the SSD when the firmware overwrote itself) without any fuss. Of course, I included the results of their check tool. No problem. Did IBM refuse to replace your failing drives? no, but 5 out of 5 died and took tons of valuable data with them. That is the worst case scenario. All other harddrives had no problems at all. Different mobos, PSUs - nothing changed the fact that all death stars I ever owned died violently - except the last one, because I sold the computer it was built in in time. Did you include detailed technical information that should have allowed them to resolve issues leading to those drives' failures? For me, SAMSUNG's behavior in the customer service department indicated that I wasn't likely to get good service in the future, and the rapidly-failing drives (combined with my analysis of the SMART output and the history of SMART problems with SAMSUNG drives) indicated to me that I'd need to use that customer service department in the future if I bought more of their drives. there was one smart related problem with Samsung in the last year. With their 2tb drives. Samsung released a firmware patch after they were informed of the problem. Apart from that Samsung drives just work for me - and the people around me. I also had no problems with drives getting replaced - but the replacing was always the problem of my trusted hardware dealer. That is why you buy hdds from a trusted, local guy. The rest was the problem of Samsung. They can't wiggle out of Germany's warranty laws ;) Yeah, I bought mine from Newegg. Hard drive warranty through Newegg means see manufacturer. I've had no problem with WD's customer service. Haven't had occasion to try anyone but SAMSUNG and WD. Problem with buying locally where I am is that it generally means a 50% markup above what I'd pay Newegg. There are several big-box stores in the area whose prices and selections aren't great. There are three small computer stores within a 45 minute drive, and their selection tends to be better, but their prices tend to be worse. my 'local' shop has only 10% higher prices than cheap online sellers. Worst case. Most of the time it is a lot less - and sometimes cheaper than online. I am willing to pay that 'premium' for service and the knowledge that when I tell them the drive is dead they don't even try to put the blame on me. Same for Ram - or mainboards ;) After bad experience with Enermax - waiting 6 weeks for a replacement for a PSU that killed three mobos and enermax being too cheap to even put a new set of cables in the box I went with BeQuiet. 48h replacement. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Freitag 28 Oktober 2011, 08:53:40 schrieb Mark Knecht: On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 7:18 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:15 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Amazon streams now but I haven't tried them yet. (Watch out for 'One Touch' and accidentally spending money...) Amazon streaming works fine in Linux (I've tried it), it just uses the plain old Adobe Flash plug-in. Therein apparently lies the problem for me. Adobe Flash no longer works on my machine since adding a second video card. I just tried Amazon in Firefox 7 and it just sits doing nothing. I _think_ this is related to using Xinerama on KDE but when I posted questions here (twice) I got no responses so it seems few people are doing this. For my futures trading I need 3 or 4 monitors and I couldn't make sense out of using X without Xinerama so I seem stuck, at least native in Gentoo. I suspect it's fine in a Windows VM but I've got Jimmy Kimmel running at the moment so I'll test that later. I REALLY, REALLY miss having all the OpenGL stuff you get with KDE. I had it with one Nvidia card but not with two... - Mark you don't need xinerama for multi-monitor setups. Volker, I understand that but I'm wondering if you read my post? I stated 'I couldn't make sense out of using X without Xinerama'. If you're interested in discussing multiple graphic card, multi-monitor setups then I'd be more than willing to start another thread. However that discussion doesn't belong in a thread entitled Hard drive RPMs and data speed. - Mark
[gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On 10/27/2011 11:15 AM, Dale wrote: Howdy, I'm wanting to get a hard drive that is pretty good size. I'm looking for about 1 to 2TBs or so. Thing is, a lot of them seem to be 5900 or even 5400 rpm drives. I realize that the data on there is packed pretty tight so I want to ask a few people that may have one or more of these things a few questions. Are they as fast as a slower RPM drive? I assume you meant to say as fast as a faster RPM drive. No, of course not. If we're speaking about the same capacity and amount of platters, of course. If we're not, then yes, they can be as fast because of the higher data density. Would they be fast enough to play HD videos and such? I have quite a few 1080 HD videos. I don't want the drive to cause issues. The transfer speed required for playing HD videos is virtually zero. 1080p video compressed using an 8mbps rate require 2MB/s. This can be done even with the slowest drive from 10 years ago. Today's slowest drive are able to play about 40 or 50 of those HD video simultaneously. So the answer is yes. They can play HD video :-) Most of those 5900/5400 disks are meant for pure data storage. The lower RPM is used to market them as green and silent, meaning they don't consume much power and aren't noisy. Installing your OS on them though isn't going to give you good speed. They have good transfer rates, but their access times usually suck. Can someone that has one or more of these post their hdparm -Tt results? Different speeds would be great too. I'd like to compare what a 5400rpm drive would do compared to a 7200rpm drive. Simply Google around for benchmarks of the drivers you're interested in. Note that is in area where it doesn't make any real difference that the benches or reviews you find are performed under MS Windows. The results are applicable to every OS. As a rule of thumb when buying drives: if you want to install software on it, buy an 7200RPM drive with good access times. Of course they're more expensive If you just want to store all your downloaded HD porn and music collection on it, a silent 5400RPM drive is a good choice. Oh, and one other thing; hdparm is only meant to get you the continuous I/O transfer rate. It's an awful benchmark for anything else, like what happens if a file is fragmented or how fast it can copy/write data spread around the disk, how good it is at combined random I/O operation, etc.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:09 AM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de wrote: Oh, and one other thing; hdparm is only meant to get you the continuous I/O transfer rate. It's an awful benchmark for anything else, like what happens if a file is fragmented or how fast it can copy/write data spread around the disk, how good it is at combined random I/O operation, etc. For that kind of information, go with bonnie++ I've little else to add to the thread, except that I ran three Seagate 1.5TB 'green' drives in RAID5 for quite a while with very nice perforance results. Access times were comfy, and I tended to get about 60MB/s continuous read and write speed. I hadn't learned about bonnie++ yet, so I don't have any good benchmarks to show on that front. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 13:09:17 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras: On 10/27/2011 11:15 AM, Dale wrote: Howdy, I'm wanting to get a hard drive that is pretty good size. I'm looking for about 1 to 2TBs or so. Thing is, a lot of them seem to be 5900 or even 5400 rpm drives. I realize that the data on there is packed pretty tight so I want to ask a few people that may have one or more of these things a few questions. Are they as fast as a slower RPM drive? I assume you meant to say as fast as a faster RPM drive. No, of course not. If we're speaking about the same capacity and amount of platters, of course. If we're not, then yes, they can be as fast because of the higher data density. Would they be fast enough to play HD videos and such? I have quite a few 1080 HD videos. I don't want the drive to cause issues. The transfer speed required for playing HD videos is virtually zero. 1080p video compressed using an 8mbps rate require 2MB/s. This can be done even with the slowest drive from 10 years ago. Today's slowest drive are able to play about 40 or 50 of those HD video simultaneously. So the answer is yes. They can play HD video :-) Most of those 5900/5400 disks are meant for pure data storage. The lower RPM is used to market them as green and silent, meaning they don't consume much power and aren't noisy. Installing your OS on them though isn't going to give you good speed. They have good transfer rates, but their access times usually suck. Can someone that has one or more of these post their hdparm -Tt results? Different speeds would be great too. I'd like to compare what a 5400rpm drive would do compared to a 7200rpm drive. Simply Google around for benchmarks of the drivers you're interested in. Note that is in area where it doesn't make any real difference that the benches or reviews you find are performed under MS Windows. The results are applicable to every OS. As a rule of thumb when buying drives: if you want to install software on it, buy an 7200RPM drive with good access times. Of course they're more expensive If you just want to store all your downloaded HD porn and music collection on it, a silent 5400RPM drive is a good choice. indeed. Additionally they don't get really warm. Which reduces the overall thermal load in the case. One important thing: most if not all 2TB drives have 4K sectors, which means you have to be carefull while partitioning those beasts. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 13:09:17 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras: On 10/27/2011 11:15 AM, Dale wrote: Howdy, I'm wanting to get a hard drive that is pretty good size. I'm looking for about 1 to 2TBs or so. Thing is, a lot of them seem to be 5900 or even 5400 rpm drives. I realize that the data on there is packed pretty tight so I want to ask a few people that may have one or more of these things a few questions. Are they as fast as a slower RPM drive? I assume you meant to say as fast as a faster RPM drive. No, of course not. If we're speaking about the same capacity and amount of platters, of course. If we're not, then yes, they can be as fast because of the higher data density. Would they be fast enough to play HD videos and such? I have quite a few 1080 HD videos. I don't want the drive to cause issues. The transfer speed required for playing HD videos is virtually zero. 1080p video compressed using an 8mbps rate require 2MB/s. This can be done even with the slowest drive from 10 years ago. Today's slowest drive are able to play about 40 or 50 of those HD video simultaneously. So the answer is yes. They can play HD video :-) Most of those 5900/5400 disks are meant for pure data storage. The lower RPM is used to market them as green and silent, meaning they don't consume much power and aren't noisy. Installing your OS on them though isn't going to give you good speed. They have good transfer rates, but their access times usually suck. Can someone that has one or more of these post their hdparm -Tt results? Different speeds would be great too. I'd like to compare what a 5400rpm drive would do compared to a 7200rpm drive. Simply Google around for benchmarks of the drivers you're interested in. Note that is in area where it doesn't make any real difference that the benches or reviews you find are performed under MS Windows. The results are applicable to every OS. As a rule of thumb when buying drives: if you want to install software on it, buy an 7200RPM drive with good access times. Of course they're more expensive If you just want to store all your downloaded HD porn and music collection on it, a silent 5400RPM drive is a good choice. indeed. Additionally they don't get really warm. Which reduces the overall thermal load in the case. One important thing: most if not all 2TB drives have 4K sectors, which means you have to be carefull while partitioning those beasts. Looks like some good info. I just need a GOOD sale and some extra money to spend. Maybe in a couple weeks or so. Hopefully. ;-) As for heat in my case, I have a Cooler Master HAF-932 case. It has those huge 230mm fans. Heat is not a problem. I just wonder how much data they will be able to pack into a 3.5 drive tho. Hm. Surely they will run out of room at some point. I mean, the heads have got to have a little room to work with. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Looks like some good info. I just need a GOOD sale and some extra money to spend. Maybe in a couple weeks or so. Hopefully. ;-) As for heat in my case, I have a Cooler Master HAF-932 case. It has those huge 230mm fans. Heat is not a problem. I just wonder how much data they will be able to pack into a 3.5 drive tho. Hm. Surely they will run out of room at some point. I mean, the heads have got to have a little room to work with. Just don't buy a SAMSUNG drive. I know, I know, everyone has their pet Don't Buy Hard Drives Made By $x experience. Here's mine. I bought a 1TB SAMSUNG drive for cheap from Newegg at a Black Friday sale a couple years ago. It failed on me. Around the same time, I identified some flaws in the firmware which I considered severe[2]. I RMA'd the drive, including a full report on the failure and the bugs I'd found in the firmware. I received the new drive in the mail. Same exact model. Same exact firmware revision.[1] It failed on me within three months. I attempted another RMA, the drive's serial number was rejected by their system, and I never heard back. So, I recommend not buying SAMSUNG drives for a combination of: 1) Historical evidence of poor firmware design. (reference smartctl's man page; SAMSUNG is the only manufacturer I know of to get two user-selectable workarounds in smartctl.) 2) I received a failed drive, which was RMA'd, the subsequent drive failed shortly thereafter, and couldn't be RMA'd using normal channels. 3) No acknowledgement (or even denial) of the firmware issue. [1] Ok, sure, there's no way they'd be able to whip out a new firmware revision in time for an RMA. That wouldn't make sense. But they might have sent me a drive with a different firmware revision. Or a different model. As it stood, they sent me back a device I'd already identified as systemically defective. [2] It claimed to support logging, but any failed test didn't get appended to the log, but erased and replaced it. I can probably dig up nearly all the details, but not quickly, since I'm at work. However, since you're on the cusp of making a purchase, I thought I'd give you fair warning... -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Michael Mol wrote:
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
Looks like some good info. I just need a GOOD sale and some extra money to
spend. Maybe in a couple weeks or so. Hopefully. ;-)
As for heat in my case, I have a Cooler Master HAF-932 case. It has those
huge 230mm fans. Heat is not a problem.
I just wonder how much data they will be able to pack into a 3.5 drive tho.
Hm. Surely they will run out of room at some point. I mean, the heads
have got to have a little room to work with.
Just don't buy a SAMSUNG drive. I know, I know, everyone has their pet
Don't Buy Hard Drives Made By $x experience.
Here's mine.
I bought a 1TB SAMSUNG drive for cheap from Newegg at a Black Friday
sale a couple years ago. It failed on me. Around the same time, I
identified some flaws in the firmware which I considered severe[2].
I RMA'd the drive, including a full report on the failure and the bugs
I'd found in the firmware. I received the new drive in the mail. Same
exact model. Same exact firmware revision.[1] It failed on me within
three months. I attempted another RMA, the drive's serial number was
rejected by their system, and I never heard back.
So, I recommend not buying SAMSUNG drives for a combination of:
1) Historical evidence of poor firmware design. (reference smartctl's
man page; SAMSUNG is the only manufacturer I know of to get two
user-selectable workarounds in smartctl.)
2) I received a failed drive, which was RMA'd, the subsequent drive
failed shortly thereafter, and couldn't be RMA'd using normal
channels.
3) No acknowledgement (or even denial) of the firmware issue.
[1] Ok, sure, there's no way they'd be able to whip out a new firmware
revision in time for an RMA. That wouldn't make sense. But they might
have sent me a drive with a different firmware revision. Or a
different model. As it stood, they sent me back a device I'd already
identified as systemically defective.
[2] It claimed to support logging, but any failed test didn't get
appended to the log, but erased and replaced it. I can probably dig up
nearly all the details, but not quickly, since I'm at work. However,
since you're on the cusp of making a purchase, I thought I'd give you
fair warning...
To late now:
root@fireball / # hdparm -i /dev/sdc
/dev/sdc:
Model=SAMSUNG HD753LJ, FwRev=1AA01117, SerialNo=S1PWJ1KS305193
Config={ Fixed }
RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=34902, SectSize=554, ECCbytes=4
BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=unknown, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=off
CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=1465149168
IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
AdvancedPM=yes: disabled (255) WriteCache=enabled
Drive conforms to: unknown: ATA/ATAPI-3,4,5,6,7
* signifies the current active mode
root@fireball / #
I got this one about 2 years or so ago. I did have random lockups a
while back but I think it was a file system error. I moved everything
off the drive, reformatted it and it has worked fine ever since. If I
get me a new drive, the one above will be a backup sort of thing.
I seem to have good luck with WD and Maxtor myself. Like you said tho,
everyone has their horror story. It is bad that they didn't give some
sort of explanation on the second failure. I have noticed that some
things, car parts for example, have what they call a limited
warranty. That means exchange once and then you are on your own if it
fails. Maybe they are doing that with their drives. That would explain
a lot too.
Dale
:-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Am 27.10.2011 19:30, schrieb Dale: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 13:09:17 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras: On 10/27/2011 11:15 AM, Dale wrote: Howdy, I'm wanting to get a hard drive that is pretty good size. I'm looking for about 1 to 2TBs or so. Thing is, a lot of them seem to be 5900 or even 5400 rpm drives. I realize that the data on there is packed pretty tight so I want to ask a few people that may have one or more of these things a few questions. Are they as fast as a slower RPM drive? I assume you meant to say as fast as a faster RPM drive. No, of course not. If we're speaking about the same capacity and amount of platters, of course. If we're not, then yes, they can be as fast because of the higher data density. [...] I just wonder how much data they will be able to pack into a 3.5 drive tho. Hm. Surely they will run out of room at some point. I mean, the heads have got to have a little room to work with. Dale :-) :-) Well, then this story might cheer you up ;) http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/10/researchers-increase-hard-drive-density-sixfold-with-salt.ars Regards, Florian Philipp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 13:51:47 schrieb Michael Mol:
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
Looks like some good info. I just need a GOOD sale and some extra money
to spend. Maybe in a couple weeks or so. Hopefully. ;-)
As for heat in my case, I have a Cooler Master HAF-932 case. It has
those huge 230mm fans. Heat is not a problem.
I just wonder how much data they will be able to pack into a 3.5 drive
tho. Hm. Surely they will run out of room at some point. I mean,
the heads have got to have a little room to work with.
Just don't buy a SAMSUNG drive. I know, I know, everyone has their pet
Don't Buy Hard Drives Made By $x experience.
Here's mine.
I bought a 1TB SAMSUNG drive for cheap from Newegg at a Black Friday
sale a couple years ago. It failed on me. Around the same time, I
identified some flaws in the firmware which I considered severe[2].
I RMA'd the drive, including a full report on the failure and the bugs
I'd found in the firmware. I received the new drive in the mail. Same
exact model. Same exact firmware revision.[1] It failed on me within
three months. I attempted another RMA, the drive's serial number was
rejected by their system, and I never heard back.
So, I recommend not buying SAMSUNG drives for a combination of:
1) Historical evidence of poor firmware design. (reference smartctl's
man page; SAMSUNG is the only manufacturer I know of to get two
user-selectable workarounds in smartctl.)
2) I received a failed drive, which was RMA'd, the subsequent drive
failed shortly thereafter, and couldn't be RMA'd using normal
channels.
3) No acknowledgement (or even denial) of the firmware issue.
[1] Ok, sure, there's no way they'd be able to whip out a new firmware
revision in time for an RMA. That wouldn't make sense. But they might
have sent me a drive with a different firmware revision. Or a
different model. As it stood, they sent me back a device I'd already
identified as systemically defective.
[2] It claimed to support logging, but any failed test didn't get
appended to the log, but erased and replaced it. I can probably dig up
nearly all the details, but not quickly, since I'm at work. However,
since you're on the cusp of making a purchase, I thought I'd give you
fair warning...
/dev/sda:
Model=SAMSUNG MMCRE64G5MXP-0VB, FwRev=VBM1901Q, SerialNo=S0FDNEAZ600013
Config={ Fixed }
RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=unknown, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16
CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=125045424
IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5
AdvancedPM=no WriteCache=enabled
Drive conforms to: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 1: ATA/ATAPI-2,3,4,5,6,7
* signifies the current active mode
/dev/sdb:
Model=SAMSUNG HD502IJ, FwRev=1AA01109, SerialNo=S13TJDWQ346413
Config={ Fixed }
RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=34902, SectSize=554, ECCbytes=4
BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=16384kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=off
CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=976773168
IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
AdvancedPM=yes: disabled (255) WriteCache=enabled
Drive conforms to: unknown: ATA/ATAPI-3,4,5,6,7
* signifies the current active mode
/dev/sdc:
Model=SAMSUNG HD753LJ, FwRev=1AA01113, SerialNo=S13UJ1CQB07158
Config={ Fixed }
RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=34902, SectSize=554, ECCbytes=4
BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=unknown, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=off
CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=1465149168
IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
AdvancedPM=yes: disabled (255) WriteCache=enabled
Drive conforms to: unknown: ATA/ATAPI-3,4,5,6,7
* signifies the current active mode
/dev/sdd:
Model=SAMSUNG HD502HJ, FwRev=1AJ100E5, SerialNo=S20BJDWS913888
Config={ Fixed }
RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=16384kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=off
CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=976773168
IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
AdvancedPM=yes: disabled (255) WriteCache=enabled
Drive conforms to: unknown: ATA/ATAPI-0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7
* signifies the current active mode
/dev/sde:
Model=SAMSUNG HD103SJ, FwRev=1AJ10001, SerialNo=S246JD1Z910209
Config={ Fixed }
RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 13:51:47 schrieb Michael Mol: Just don't buy a SAMSUNG drive. I know, I know, everyone has their pet Don't Buy Hard Drives Made By $x experience. Here's mine. I bought a 1TB SAMSUNG drive for cheap from Newegg at a Black Friday sale a couple years ago. It failed on me. Around the same time, I identified some flaws in the firmware which I considered severe[2]. I RMA'd the drive, including a full report on the failure and the bugs I'd found in the firmware. I received the new drive in the mail. Same exact model. Same exact firmware revision.[1] It failed on me within three months. I attempted another RMA, the drive's serial number was rejected by their system, and I never heard back. So, I recommend not buying SAMSUNG drives for a combination of: 1) Historical evidence of poor firmware design. (reference smartctl's man page; SAMSUNG is the only manufacturer I know of to get two user-selectable workarounds in smartctl.) 2) I received a failed drive, which was RMA'd, the subsequent drive failed shortly thereafter, and couldn't be RMA'd using normal channels. 3) No acknowledgement (or even denial) of the firmware issue. [1] Ok, sure, there's no way they'd be able to whip out a new firmware revision in time for an RMA. That wouldn't make sense. But they might have sent me a drive with a different firmware revision. Or a different model. As it stood, they sent me back a device I'd already identified as systemically defective. [2] It claimed to support logging, but any failed test didn't get appended to the log, but erased and replaced it. I can probably dig up nearly all the details, but not quickly, since I'm at work. However, since you're on the cusp of making a purchase, I thought I'd give you fair warning... /dev/sda: Model=SAMSUNG MMCRE64G5MXP-0VB, FwRev=VBM1901Q, SerialNo=S0FDNEAZ600013 /dev/sdb: Model=SAMSUNG HD502IJ, FwRev=1AA01109, SerialNo=S13TJDWQ346413 /dev/sdc: Model=SAMSUNG HD753LJ, FwRev=1AA01113, SerialNo=S13UJ1CQB07158 /dev/sdd: Model=SAMSUNG HD502HJ, FwRev=1AJ100E5, SerialNo=S20BJDWS913888 /dev/sde: Model=SAMSUNG HD103SJ, FwRev=1AJ10001, SerialNo=S246JD1Z910209 /dev/sdf: Model=SAMSUNG HD103SJ, FwRev=1AJ100E5, SerialNo=S246JDWSA20722 the 2tb drive is not connected at the moment - but, hey it's a Samsung - ans so quiet, that I sometimes forget to turn it off. Oh, yeah it was THAT 2tb drive with the smart bug. Which was solved with an easy to do firmware update. I checked at the time. There was no firmware update, and, to my knowledge, there never was for the drive model that failed on me. Shortly after my second drive failed, Newegg discontinued selling model. (The most I remember about the model number can be expressed as a regex: HD10.*UI. I don't remember the firmware revision. It was the combination of historical problems, personal incidental experience and terrible customer service that led me to swear off SAMSUNG drives. Take away any one of those issues from my experiences at the time, and I'd consider buying another drive from them. You've got six working drives of various sizes, models and firmware revisions. Good for you. I've got a still-functional 40GB IBM DeathStar. (It's not powered up right now, but it never failed on me after five years of use.) -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 15:17:45 schrieb Michael Mol: On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 13:51:47 schrieb Michael Mol: Just don't buy a SAMSUNG drive. I know, I know, everyone has their pet Don't Buy Hard Drives Made By $x experience. Here's mine. I bought a 1TB SAMSUNG drive for cheap from Newegg at a Black Friday sale a couple years ago. It failed on me. Around the same time, I identified some flaws in the firmware which I considered severe[2]. I RMA'd the drive, including a full report on the failure and the bugs I'd found in the firmware. I received the new drive in the mail. Same exact model. Same exact firmware revision.[1] It failed on me within three months. I attempted another RMA, the drive's serial number was rejected by their system, and I never heard back. So, I recommend not buying SAMSUNG drives for a combination of: 1) Historical evidence of poor firmware design. (reference smartctl's man page; SAMSUNG is the only manufacturer I know of to get two user-selectable workarounds in smartctl.) 2) I received a failed drive, which was RMA'd, the subsequent drive failed shortly thereafter, and couldn't be RMA'd using normal channels. 3) No acknowledgement (or even denial) of the firmware issue. [1] Ok, sure, there's no way they'd be able to whip out a new firmware revision in time for an RMA. That wouldn't make sense. But they might have sent me a drive with a different firmware revision. Or a different model. As it stood, they sent me back a device I'd already identified as systemically defective. [2] It claimed to support logging, but any failed test didn't get appended to the log, but erased and replaced it. I can probably dig up nearly all the details, but not quickly, since I'm at work. However, since you're on the cusp of making a purchase, I thought I'd give you fair warning... /dev/sda: Model=SAMSUNG MMCRE64G5MXP-0VB, FwRev=VBM1901Q, SerialNo=S0FDNEAZ600013 /dev/sdb: Model=SAMSUNG HD502IJ, FwRev=1AA01109, SerialNo=S13TJDWQ346413 /dev/sdc: Model=SAMSUNG HD753LJ, FwRev=1AA01113, SerialNo=S13UJ1CQB07158 /dev/sdd: Model=SAMSUNG HD502HJ, FwRev=1AJ100E5, SerialNo=S20BJDWS913888 /dev/sde: Model=SAMSUNG HD103SJ, FwRev=1AJ10001, SerialNo=S246JD1Z910209 /dev/sdf: Model=SAMSUNG HD103SJ, FwRev=1AJ100E5, SerialNo=S246JDWSA20722 the 2tb drive is not connected at the moment - but, hey it's a Samsung - ans so quiet, that I sometimes forget to turn it off. Oh, yeah it was THAT 2tb drive with the smart bug. Which was solved with an easy to do firmware update. I checked at the time. There was no firmware update, and, to my knowledge, there never was for the drive model that failed on me. Shortly after my second drive failed, Newegg discontinued selling model. (The most I remember about the model number can be expressed as a regex: HD10.*UI. I don't remember the firmware revision. It was the combination of historical problems, personal incidental experience and terrible customer service that led me to swear off SAMSUNG drives. Take away any one of those issues from my experiences at the time, and I'd consider buying another drive from them. You've got six working drives of various sizes, models and firmware revisions. Good for you. I've got a still-functional 40GB IBM DeathStar. (It's not powered up right now, but it never failed on me after five years of use.) and I had 5 death stars failing on me. ... -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 15:17:45 schrieb Michael Mol: On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2011, 13:51:47 schrieb Michael Mol: Just don't buy a SAMSUNG drive. I know, I know, everyone has their pet Don't Buy Hard Drives Made By $x experience. Here's mine. I bought a 1TB SAMSUNG drive for cheap from Newegg at a Black Friday sale a couple years ago. It failed on me. Around the same time, I identified some flaws in the firmware which I considered severe[2]. Model=SAMSUNG MMCRE64G5MXP-0VB, FwRev=VBM1901Q, SerialNo=S0FDNEAZ600013 Model=SAMSUNG HD502IJ, FwRev=1AA01109, SerialNo=S13TJDWQ346413 Model=SAMSUNG HD753LJ, FwRev=1AA01113, SerialNo=S13UJ1CQB07158 Model=SAMSUNG HD502HJ, FwRev=1AJ100E5, SerialNo=S20BJDWS913888 Model=SAMSUNG HD103SJ, FwRev=1AJ10001, SerialNo=S246JD1Z910209 Model=SAMSUNG HD103SJ, FwRev=1AJ100E5, SerialNo=S246JDWSA20722 Oh, yeah it was THAT 2tb drive with the smart bug. Which was solved with an easy to do firmware update. I checked at the time. There was no firmware update, and, to my knowledge, there never was for the drive model that failed on me. Shortly after my second drive failed, Newegg discontinued selling model. (The most I remember about the model number can be expressed as a regex: HD10.*UI. I don't remember the firmware revision. It was the combination of historical problems, personal incidental experience and terrible customer service that led me to swear off SAMSUNG drives. Take away any one of those issues from my experiences at the time, and I'd consider buying another drive from them. You've got six working drives of various sizes, models and firmware revisions. Good for you. I've got a still-functional 40GB IBM DeathStar. (It's not powered up right now, but it never failed on me after five years of use.) and I had 5 death stars failing on me. My point is that the numbers aren't what mattered here. My point is that SAMSUNG sold me a shoddy product, replaced it with another instance of the the same shoddy product, wouldn't replace it again, and never addressed a detailed technical report of a systemic problem in the same. Bad tech, bad customer service, and it looked like this was a more common scenario than among other manufacturers. All of it boiled down to a nasty case of being a bad candidate for spending time and money. Did IBM refuse to replace your failing drives? Did you include detailed technical information that should have allowed them to resolve issues leading to those drives' failures? For me, SAMSUNG's behavior in the customer service department indicated that I wasn't likely to get good service in the future, and the rapidly-failing drives (combined with my analysis of the SMART output and the history of SMART problems with SAMSUNG drives) indicated to me that I'd need to use that customer service department in the future if I bought more of their drives. So you've got six working drives, and a drive that works now that you patched the firmware. Congrats on choosing a model for which a firmware patch was made available (unless that was just luck...). Also, good luck if you have a failing drive that was sent to you by RMA. It's been a few years; if you're lucky, they may have cleaned up their act. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: Just don't buy a SAMSUNG drive. I know, I know, everyone has their pet Don't Buy Hard Drives Made By $x experience. On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: I seem to have good luck with WD and Maxtor myself. Seagate and Western Digital have bought (or are in process of buying) all of the other HDD manufacturers, except for Toshiba. Seagate = Conner, Quantum, Maxtor, Samsung Western Digital = Hitachi (= IBM) Toshiba still stands alone, as far as I know, but they don't compete in the consumer HDD market so, for your purposes, they don't exist (unless you're building a large and expensive SAS array in your house). :)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
On 10/27/2011 12:41 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: and I had 5 death stars failing on me. Darth Vader's death star failed, too.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hard drive RPMs and data speed.
Florian Philipp wrote: Am 27.10.2011 19:30, schrieb Dale: I just wonder how much data they will be able to pack into a 3.5 drive tho. Hm. Surely they will run out of room at some point. I mean, the heads have got to have a little room to work with. Dale :-) :-) Well, then this story might cheer you up ;) http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/10/researchers-increase-hard-drive-density-sixfold-with-salt.ars Regards, Florian Philipp Good Golly Ms Molly. and have been able to fabricate magnetic storage media with a density of 3.3 terabits per square inch. What is there about 10 or 12 square inches for a 3.5 drive? That's about 30TBs. O_O That would take me a while to fill up even if I had a really fast DSL line. WOW !! H, NCIS, all the CSI's, Criminal Minds, Numb3rs, and lots of others. Heck, I could cut off DirecTv then. Just get that Hulu thingy and go nuts. Does Hulu work with Linux? Seems I read it doesn't. Anyway, still a LOT of shows. Dale :-) :-)
