Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Sunday, 3 September 2017 08:37:11 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> On Sunday, 3 September 2017 02:30:59 BST Dale wrote:
>>> Odd how some things work and some don't.
>> Allow me to introduce you to my old friend KMail ...
> Hmm ... mine was playing up since I moved to 5.5.3 and enabled USE=google for 
> kdepim.  It would not resync Gmail folders after the first time it connected 
> to the Gmail servers.  Changing imap.gmail.com to imap.googlemail.com fixed 
> this.  Meanwhile, an identical set up on another box, with the exception that 
> it runs the full Kontact PIM suite rather than Kmail alone, works fine with 
> imap.gmail.com and folders are updated regularly.  Go figure ...
>


Now y'all know me.  If I were still using Kmail, I'd run into a whole
host of issues, that no one else does or even thinks possible.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Mick]

On Sunday, 3 September 2017 08:37:11 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday, 3 September 2017 02:30:59 BST Dale wrote:
> > Odd how some things work and some don't.
> 
> Allow me to introduce you to my old friend KMail ...

Hmm ... mine was playing up since I moved to 5.5.3 and enabled USE=google for 
kdepim.  It would not resync Gmail folders after the first time it connected 
to the Gmail servers.  Changing imap.gmail.com to imap.googlemail.com fixed 
this.  Meanwhile, an identical set up on another box, with the exception that 
it runs the full Kontact PIM suite rather than Kmail alone, works fine with 
imap.gmail.com and folders are updated regularly.  Go figure ...

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 3 September 2017 02:30:59 BST Dale wrote:

> Odd how some things work and some don't.

Allow me to introduce you to my old friend KMail ...

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Walter Dnes  wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 09:19:00AM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote
>>> On 2017-08-31 08:47, Walter Dnes wrote:
>>>
 1) To protect my gear against power surges/spikes/drops
 2) To protect against the rare occurence when power goes off for 1
or 2 seconds
>>> I do the same.  Or at least I did until last week, when the UPS died
>>> after more than a decade of perfect service.  (Here, the outages are
>>> longer than 2 seconds; it's not often, but is very annoying when it
>>> happens, with the UPS square wave beeps.)
>>   I just had a second look at your message.  Did you say your UPS puts
>> out ***SQUARE WAVES***?  That is very bad for consumer grade electrical
>> stuff.
>>
> He said the beeps were square waves.  That is roughly what mine sound
> like, though mine is a sine-wave UPS.
>
> A lot of stuff can handle square wave power output, though PFC power
> supplies don't like it as I understand things.  I think most of the
> cheaper UPSs on the market still put out fairly raw inverter output.
>


I can tell you one thing that doesn't like square wave or the modified
square waves some UPSs put out.  The air pump for a fish tank.  The ones
I had and tried to run off a UPS when we had a large power failure would
not run off the UPS.  Generator, fine.  UPS, not happening.  I was told
that if one hooks up a 120v>120v transformer, it will work.  I never
tested that but according to the person that told me that, it changes
the wave enough that it is more like a sine wave, since transformers
don't recreate square to well.  It makes sense that it would work.

Also, some AC motors won't run off of it either.  They have a name for
the type of motor but can't recall what it is.  I think the compressors
in a fridge/freezer will run off that tho.  Then again, may vary by
model.  Our little small fans, won't run but they do get hot pretty
quick.  o_O 

Since power outages are not so often nowadays, I depend on the surge
protection in my UPS more than I do the backup power.  Both of my UPSs
have a LOT of MOVs in them.  I put new batteries in my old UPS last
month.  Third set of batteries in that thing.  It's pretty old but works
well. 

Odd how some things work and some don't. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Walter Dnes  wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 09:19:00AM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote
>> On 2017-08-31 08:47, Walter Dnes wrote:
>>
>> > 1) To protect my gear against power surges/spikes/drops
>> > 2) To protect against the rare occurence when power goes off for 1
>> >or 2 seconds
>>
>> I do the same.  Or at least I did until last week, when the UPS died
>> after more than a decade of perfect service.  (Here, the outages are
>> longer than 2 seconds; it's not often, but is very annoying when it
>> happens, with the UPS square wave beeps.)
>
>   I just had a second look at your message.  Did you say your UPS puts
> out ***SQUARE WAVES***?  That is very bad for consumer grade electrical
> stuff.
>

He said the beeps were square waves.  That is roughly what mine sound
like, though mine is a sine-wave UPS.

A lot of stuff can handle square wave power output, though PFC power
supplies don't like it as I understand things.  I think most of the
cheaper UPSs on the market still put out fairly raw inverter output.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Walter Dnes]

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 09:19:00AM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote
> On 2017-08-31 08:47, Walter Dnes wrote:
> 
> > 1) To protect my gear against power surges/spikes/drops
> > 2) To protect against the rare occurence when power goes off for 1
> >or 2 seconds
> 
> I do the same.  Or at least I did until last week, when the UPS died
> after more than a decade of perfect service.  (Here, the outages are
> longer than 2 seconds; it's not often, but is very annoying when it
> happens, with the UPS square wave beeps.)

  I just had a second look at your message.  Did you say your UPS puts
out ***SQUARE WAVES***?  That is very bad for consumer grade electrical
stuff.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Walter Dnes]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 04:45:34PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote
> On 2017-08-30 18:28, R0b0t1 wrote:
> 
> > >> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with
> > >> flash as the main storage will be back at the recycling station
> > >> (ideally) within a couple of years.  This includes all the
> > >> consumer routers I've ever had, including the beloved blue Linksys.
> 
> > Flash storage lasts far longer than that in practice. How often do you
> > upgrade a router?
> 
> The "couple" was meant literally, i.e. typically 2 years until it
> breaks.  I don't know for sure if it is the flash or something else.
> It's not a bad brand - I have had many different brands, nothing lasts
> much more than that.  And I don't abuse them - in fact I pamper them :-)

  I've been using my SpeedTouch 546 ADSL router/modem ever since I
switched to my current ISP at the end of November 2007.  It's 3 months
to the 10th anniversary.  How is your local power system?  I keep all my
gear (computer/monitor/modem) behind a UPS for a couple of reasons...
1) To protect my gear against power surges/spikes/drops
2) To protect against the rare occurence when power goes off for 1 or 2
seconds

  I'm currently on 7 megabits down / 1 megabit up.  I live alone, and
7/1 easily handles 1080p video (e.g. Youtube).  The router/modem can
handle 10/1 and 15/1, which my ISP also offers.  To get 15/10, I need a
newer modem.  I have a SmartRG 505N waiting for when the ST546 dies...
or I decide I need more upload speed.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Dale]

R0b0t1 wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Ian Zimmerman  wrote:
>> On 2017-08-30 18:28, R0b0t1 wrote:
>>
> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with
> flash as the main storage will be back at the recycling station
> (ideally) within a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer
> routers I've ever had, including the beloved blue Linksys.
>>> Flash storage lasts far longer than that in practice. How often do you
>>> upgrade a router?
>> The "couple" was meant literally, i.e. typically 2 years until it
>> breaks.  I don't know for sure if it is the flash or something else.
>> It's not a bad brand - I have had many different brands, nothing lasts
>> much more than that.  And I don't abuse them - in fact I pamper them :-)
>>
> I don't want to take this off on a tangent too far, but can you
> describe how you're using them? I'm very interested in what might be
> causing them to fail. It's probably not the flash. Reading it causes
> virtually no wear and you can do this indefinitely until the charge on
> the flash cells equalizes itself, which usually takes a hundred years
> or so (similar to the time periods that electromigration takes to
> visibly affect integrated circuits).
>
>


I have to add, I've had modems go out, lightening strikes coming through
the phone line does a good job of that.  I've never had a modem just die
outside of lightening hitting it.  Some I've had for years, after
plugging the phone lines into a good surge protector.  Smart move. 
Should have did that sooner.  ;-) 

Router, heck, I don't recall ever having a router go bad.  I don't
recall even the power pack thing ever going out.  I've updated the
firmware/OS thing a couple times on mine and it just keeps on going. 
Come to think of it, I rarely even have to reboot the thing.  Usually
when I do, it's because my DSL is having problems and I give it a reset
just for giggles, modem to I might add.  BTW, I have one of those wired
type LinkSys blue routers.  I have a spare in the closet.  It's been
there for years.  Found it at a thrift store for like $5.00 or so.  They
had no idea its real value.  I think it has the wireless part.  lol 
Anyway, it worked when I tested it. 

Makes one curious as to what is causing Ian's problem with this sort of
thing.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[R0b0t1]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Ian Zimmerman  wrote:
> On 2017-08-30 18:28, R0b0t1 wrote:
>
>> >> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with
>> >> flash as the main storage will be back at the recycling station
>> >> (ideally) within a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer
>> >> routers I've ever had, including the beloved blue Linksys.
>
>> Flash storage lasts far longer than that in practice. How often do you
>> upgrade a router?
>
> The "couple" was meant literally, i.e. typically 2 years until it
> breaks.  I don't know for sure if it is the flash or something else.
> It's not a bad brand - I have had many different brands, nothing lasts
> much more than that.  And I don't abuse them - in fact I pamper them :-)
>

I don't want to take this off on a tangent too far, but can you
describe how you're using them? I'm very interested in what might be
causing them to fail. It's probably not the flash. Reading it causes
virtually no wear and you can do this indefinitely until the charge on
the flash cells equalizes itself, which usually takes a hundred years
or so (similar to the time periods that electromigration takes to
visibly affect integrated circuits).

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[R0b0t1]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Mick  wrote:
> On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 15:42:47 BST Ian Zimmerman wrote:
>> On 2017-08-30 09:32, Mick wrote:
>> > > Unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy because typically you
>> > > will, in a few months, if not a single month, spend more in
>> > > electricity costs than you would purchasing a new single board
>> > > computer.
>> >
>> > Perhaps in a commercial 24x7x365 high compute cycle application this
>> > would hold water, but in the case of a home PC running 14 hours a day
>> > at maximum power you might save enough to buy a small spinning SATA

Only recent hardware is actually any good at frequency scaling, or
adjusting power consumption when frequency scaling. If the processor
saves 10W that's nice but the rest of the computer might still be
using 50-100W idle.

>> > drive after a year, or a Raspberry Pi without peripherals, but not a
>> > new PC.  Of course, if:
>> >
>> > 1. your PC is not running at full speed all the time;
>> > 2. it is not a PentiumD dual core (were they the most power hungry?);
>> > 3. you're not still running a CRT monitor;
>> > 4. you tend to suspend to RAM when not in front of it;
>> > 5. a new PC is not at least 50% more efficient;
>> > 6. the price of electricity is not exorbitant (I pay approximately
>> > £0.13/KWh + £0.29/day)
>> >
>> > then you will need other reasons to upgrade.  When the PC you're using
>> > is a laptop, then the case for upgrading on grounds of savings on
>> > electricity costs alone is even more tenuous.
>>

I think it is useful to talk about absolute cost vs. relative cost.
The absolute cost is likely low enough you don't care, and if so
that's fine, I understand. The relative cost of running a single board
computer as opposed to modern desktop is something like 100x cheaper,
or two orders of magnitude (~2.5W vs. ~120W). Older desktops fare less
favorably and may be 200-500x more power hungry.

>> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with flash as
>> the main storage will be back at the recycling station (ideally) within
>> a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer routers I've ever
>> had, including the beloved blue Linksys.
>

Flash storage lasts far longer than that in practice. How often do you
upgrade a router?

Even the very inexpensive flash (10k to 100k write cycles) in
microcontrollers tends to never reach its useful lifespan even when
those parts are used for development; that is, receiving 10-20 updates
a day for a few months (worst case ~1% of useful lifespan, more
typically ~0.1% of useful lifespan or less).

> With consumer grade router/modems I've found the capacitors are of a low
> rating and therefore within a few years (or sooner if your area experiences
> brown outs and power cuts/surges) they give up the ghost.  Replacing the
> capacitors in their power supply and sometimes a couple of their internal
> capacitors with capacitors of a higher rating for just a few cents, by passes
> this built-in obsolescence and extends their useful life for quite a few more
> years.

I haven't noticed anything similar but I do not recommend Netgear
products anymore. The TP-LINK router I purchased has been in use for a
few years and has fared favorably.

These failures seem to be related to "abusing" the router. If you keep
it relatively uncovered in a livable space it will do fine. If you put
it outside in a shelter it will not. I do not necessarily agree that
computers should be designed to operate at *only* 25C STP (your
livingroom) but that is the current state of the market.

R0b0t1.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Mick]

On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 15:42:47 BST Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2017-08-30 09:32, Mick wrote:
> > > Unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy because typically you
> > > will, in a few months, if not a single month, spend more in
> > > electricity costs than you would purchasing a new single board
> > > computer.
> > 
> > Perhaps in a commercial 24x7x365 high compute cycle application this
> > would hold water, but in the case of a home PC running 14 hours a day
> > at maximum power you might save enough to buy a small spinning SATA
> > drive after a year, or a Raspberry Pi without peripherals, but not a
> > new PC.  Of course, if:
> > 
> > 1. your PC is not running at full speed all the time;
> > 2. it is not a PentiumD dual core (were they the most power hungry?);
> > 3. you're not still running a CRT monitor;
> > 4. you tend to suspend to RAM when not in front of it;
> > 5. a new PC is not at least 50% more efficient;
> > 6. the price of electricity is not exorbitant (I pay approximately
> > £0.13/KWh + £0.29/day)
> > 
> > then you will need other reasons to upgrade.  When the PC you're using
> > is a laptop, then the case for upgrading on grounds of savings on
> > electricity costs alone is even more tenuous.
> 
> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with flash as
> the main storage will be back at the recycling station (ideally) within
> a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer routers I've ever
> had, including the beloved blue Linksys.

With consumer grade router/modems I've found the capacitors are of a low 
rating and therefore within a few years (or sooner if your area experiences 
brown outs and power cuts/surges) they give up the ghost.  Replacing the 
capacitors in their power supply and sometimes a couple of their internal 
capacitors with capacitors of a higher rating for just a few cents, by passes 
this built-in obsolescence and extends their useful life for quite a few more 
years.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Daniel Frey]

On 08/30/2017 07:42 AM, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2017-08-30 09:32, Mick wrote:
> 
>>> Unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy because typically you
>>> will, in a few months, if not a single month, spend more in
>>> electricity costs than you would purchasing a new single board
>>> computer.
> 
>> Perhaps in a commercial 24x7x365 high compute cycle application this
>> would hold water, but in the case of a home PC running 14 hours a day
>> at maximum power you might save enough to buy a small spinning SATA
>> drive after a year, or a Raspberry Pi without peripherals, but not a
>> new PC.  Of course, if:
>>
>> 1. your PC is not running at full speed all the time;
>> 2. it is not a PentiumD dual core (were they the most power hungry?);
>> 3. you're not still running a CRT monitor;
>> 4. you tend to suspend to RAM when not in front of it;
>> 5. a new PC is not at least 50% more efficient;
>> 6. the price of electricity is not exorbitant (I pay approximately
>> £0.13/KWh + £0.29/day)
>>
>> then you will need other reasons to upgrade.  When the PC you're using
>> is a laptop, then the case for upgrading on grounds of savings on
>> electricity costs alone is even more tenuous.
> 
> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with flash as
> the main storage will be back at the recycling station (ideally) within
> a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer routers I've ever
> had, including the beloved blue Linksys.
> 

This is the reason I was looking into a UBNT router for my home - if you
pop the cover off it has a USB port with a stick plugged in. Stick
fails, insert a new one and do a recovery. There's several threads on
their forums where this has happened and users successfully replaced the
USB thumb drive and were back up and running. That it can route at near
gigabit speeds doesn't hurt its chances either.

Dan