Re: Fifty frames per second with half of them redundant.

[Chris Woods]

On 05/03/2024 12:23, Ralph Corderoy wrote:

Hi,

I'm used to an hour of iPlayer video needing about 1 GiB.  In the past,
this doubled for a while because the frame rate doubled from 25 to 50
per second.  But stepping through the frames, say with mpv(1)'s ‘.’,
showed the first frame of a pair will be a scene update and the second
is a very minor adjustment of the pixels.  So the camera shot might move
in frames 1, 3, 5, ... and nothing much happen in frames 2, 4, 6...
A waste for the BBC and me.  Then downloads went back to the normal
1 GiB/hour.

Recently, like the last few weeks, it's doubled again with the same
cause.  Take PID m001x0zq.  ffprobe(1) shows

 Stream #0:0(und): Video:
 h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661),
 yuv420p(tv, bt709),
 1280x720 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9],
 5058 kb/s,
 50 fps,
 50 tbr,
 90k tbn,
 100 tbc (default)

 Stream #0:1(eng): Audio:
 aac (LC) (mp4a / 0x6134706D),
 48000 Hz,
 stereo,
 fltp,
 128 kb/s (default)

 Stream #0:2: Video:
 mjpeg,
 yuvj420p(pc, bt470bg/unknown/unknown),
 192x108 [SAR 72:72 DAR 16:9],
 90k tbr,
 90k tbn,
 90k tbc

Does anyone have insights as to why this happens and what causes the BBC
to return to normal?

Is there anything I can do to force a sane 25 fps without dropping
quality?


Ths merits a recap of the complexity caused by interlaced broadcast video 
standards. Please bear with (or skip to roughly halfway down). Apologies if you 
already know all this...



Each frame of an interlaced video picture is comprised of odd lines from the current frame (field 
1) and even lines from the next frame (field 2). On playback, the device plays the video signal 
with a bob deinterlace, resulting in the familiar "50i" look to programme content. The 
BBC and some other UK broadcasters sometimes refer to interlaced signals as "50i" to 
distinguish them from 25p video signals. Other notations like 1080i/25 (suggested by the EBU and 
SMPTE) are also used.

In practice nowadays, the encoders used for DTT and DSAT should detect 
progressive flags from the playout system metadata and adjust their format on 
the fly. It's usually seamless, though older TVs (and STBs which pass through 
the signal as-received with no processing or upscaling) may sometimes pop a 
notification of a standards change. Easiest to spot around ad breaks in films 
on ITV and Channel 4.


Like the Death in Paradise show, many films and TV serials are originated 24 or 
25 fps progressive, but are still provided to the BBC (like other UK 
broadcasters) as interlaced 25 fps, PsF (Progressive Segmented Frames) files. 
For the BBC, 1080p25 progressive file delivery is only acceptable with prior 
agreement (per BBC technical delivery standards document). 50 fps progressive 
is currently only an acceptable delivery format for UHD programmes.


Creating a PsF video from progressive source material is done by creating every second 
video field (the 'lower' field, comprised of even-numbered picture lines) from the same 
source frame as the preceding "upper" field (odd-numbered lines). This 
maintains full compatibility with interlaced broadcast, and usefully creates a video file 
of 25 full resolution progressive frames per second. However, on iPlayer, all content 
originated as interlaced is deinterlaced at the encoding step...





Your example sounds like the iPlayer encode might have either been from from a 
1080i/25 broadcast feed (from Playout, not received off-air), or if it was 
encoded from a file-based delivery (FBD) it was likely a 1080i/25 PsF file 
which iPlayer's treated as interlaced. iPlayer does double-rate deinterlacing, 
resulting in 50p files. It uses a bwdif/bob/double Yadif-type deinterlace, 
doubling the frame rate to preserve temporal resolution, instead of blending 
two fields to produce a lower quality 25p file. The downside is that it 
increases the filesize, occasionally for no visible benefit if the content was 
originally 25p.



I tried the quality levels available.

The fhd quality yields a 2.10 GB, 1920x1080p50 file:
get_iplayer --file-prefix="<-senum><-episodeshort>-" --pid 
m001x0zq --tv-quality fhd

Specifying "--tv-quality hd" results in a 2.09 GB, 1280x720p50 file. I'd 
suggest the 1080p50 is still the better choice. You'd have to drop to the worse sd level 
to get 25p.

As half the frames are essentially duplicates, they will still encode very efficiently - 
in my own experiments I've often found that for a given bit rate, 25p content encoded as 
a 50p file can be "only" 15-25% bigger than a 25p version, which I reckon is 
most likely due to the extra required full-resolution I frames. The Bidirectional and 
Predictive frames encode using almost no bits thanks to the efficiency of H.264.


If your file sizes are doubling, it may be due to the bit rate of the file 
increasing. That's something you won't have any 

Re: OT: Re: Unknown unknows. was Re: Why no Formula E?

[Chris Woods]

--
Chris Woods
CustomMade

On 2021-04-26 08:07, David Taylor wrote:

On 25/04/2021 19:52, Andrew wrote:

A bit behind the times are we?

Pit stops haven't happened since season 4 following the introduction 
of

the Gen2 cars. Races are 45min + 1 lap with the same car.


That was a welcome improvement, but they are still stuck with too many
gimmicks for me, "fan-boost", being able to drive over different bits
of the track to get more energy, and so forth.  Seems more like dodgem
racing at times!

The coverage is too variable.  One race it's live from the BBC studio
(in London), anther it's listed as live (on the iPlayer) but it isn't.

The Extreme-E seems purer racing.

  https://www.extreme-e.com/


Yeah, agreed on the discontinuity of coverage, I'd prefer every round to 
have a full studio show. I think it's a combination of rights, 
scheduling and budget. At least we get everything, unlike some other 
countries' broadcasters.


The studio shows have come from Quay House in Salford. Round 3 (Rome) on 
the 10th came from a new VR set.

(https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p09d68yc/formula-e-2021-round-three-rome-uninterrupted)

I personally enjoy the two Attack Modes per race rule, it adds another 
element of risk for the drivers - do they do a double-use and try to 
leapfrog to the front and hold on until the end? Do they conserve energy 
and wait until everyone else is struggling towards the end, then go for 
some overtakes? Or do they risk it in changeable weather conditions?


I also like some of the tech used for the programme. The attack mode 
floor arrows are a small element but they're being tracked and 
composited through 3D in real time using what's apparently a normal TV 
camera. At least in 2019 (and presumably still now) it was done with the 
Ncam product, which uses stereo tracking cameras that can track through 
free space, mounted on the main camera. I played with Ncam briefly in 
2019, it's clever tech.


The wider variety of camera angles is cool. Like IndyCar, we get 
Driver's Eye (very nice) and other shots you don't normally see in F1.


Extreme E also had some fabulous shots for Round 2, they have four 
drones I believe? They must be hexacopters or large quads with quality 
IS. Some of the shots they were getting were mighty impressive.


Unfortunately only four rounds for XE this year, and the format felt a 
little tentative and dragged a bit for the first weekend. Hopefully 
Round 2 will come out the gates swinging when they can revert to the 
original format. I'm looking forward to more WRX style rallycross 
frantic head to heads, not every race split with three cars and big gaps 
between sessions (necessitated due to the Saudi Arabia sand and dust: 
https://dirtfish.com/off-road/extreme-e/dust-concerns-force-major-extreme-e-format-change/ 
)


Next Extreme E is on the 29th: 
https://www.extreme-e.com/en/race-calendar


* this is a nice chase drone vid from a pre-season shoot if you don't 
mind his narration style - 
https://www.reddit.com/r/motorsports/comments/m82wdb/extreme_e_fpv_drone_pilot_commentates_over_shot/


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Re: Unknown unknows. was Re: Why no Formula E?

[Chris Woods]

On 2021-04-25 19:09, Peter S Kirk wrote:

On 25 Apr 2021 at 13:10, Jim web Jim web  wrote:


The problem being unknown unknowns


Another unkown is why anyone watches - pit stop changeover is a joke


You'll be happy to hear that's not a thing since the Gen2 car went into 
service for 2020 season. The Gen2 car is way nicer than the Gen1, and 
the Gen3/'Gen2 EVO' has some interesting changes to aero and so on but 
was delayed by the production halt at Dallara thanks to Covid.


Formula E were in a tough spot when the original bidders for the Gen1 
car failed to deliver, the collaborative effort turned out pretty well 
given the constraints.


https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2020/september/world-ev-day-progress
https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/discover/cars-and-technology
https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/watch/video-highlights/highlights/old-vs-new-gen1-vs-gen2

https://motorsport.tech/formula-e/gen3-formula-es-big-step-into-unchartered-territory
https://motorsport.tech/formula-e/when-will-we-see-you-again-formula-es-delayed-gen2evo-machine-analysed

It's surprisingly fun to watch. No tyre warmers, ostensibly all-weather 
road car tyres, a wide range of drivers with abilities from different 
disciplines results in a curious mix of tactics, mindgames, precision 
driving, lift and coast for regen and flat out attack. Safety cars can 
produce some hilarious, exciting or unexpected results (e.g. Valencia 
yesterday!)


Whereas F1 at the moment is usually a "who will follow Hamilton over the 
finish line", Formula E can throw up some real curveballs. Even 
qualifying performance can be wildly different between rounds. I love 
hearing all the tyre squeal, transmission whine and crunch of carbon 
fibre as someone does a full send into an impossible overtake :D


TV presentation is fairly engaging, presenters are enthusiastic and fans 
of the sport, plus race commentators Jack Nicholls and Dario Franchitti 
don't just scream into the mic like Crofty does at each race start, 
trying to mimic Murray Walker. Overall programme length feels nice, 
unlike the hours of exposition around the F1 races. Sometimes you get 
nice guest pundits like Mark Webber showing up too.


If you haven't watched for a while, give it a try :) The latest rounds 
are on the iPlayer, a Valencia double-header. The first one was quite 
controversial...


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Re: Certificate verify failed

[Chris Woods]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:35:05 +0100
Az  wrote:

> On Tuesday 9 October 2018 16:16,
> Nick Lord  put forth the proposition:
> > After a lengthy pause I've now installed get_iplayer 3.17 on my
> > openSUSE Leap 42.3 system. Previously I was using 3.14. Now when
> > attempting to download a programme I repeatedly get the message:
> >  
> > ERROR: Response: 500 Can't connect to www.bbc.co.uk:443 (certificate
> > verify failed)
> >  
> > and the download fails. Trying to refresh the pvr cache brings a
> > similar message:
> >  
> > ERROR: Connection error: SSL connect attempt failed error:14090086:SSL
> > routines:ssl3_get_server_certificate:certificate verify failed
> >  
> > Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?
> 
> I just got a bunch of these.
> 
> ERROR: Response: 500 Can't connect to
> vod-dash-uk-live.bbcfmt.hs.llnwd.net:443 (certificate verify failed)
> 
> --
> Az
> 
> ___
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Try

openssl s_client -CAfile /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt -connect 
bbc.co.uk:443

and

openssl s_client -CAfile /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt -connect 
vod-dash-uk-live.bbcfmt.hs.llnwd.net:443

You should ultimately see "Verify return code: 0 (ok)". 

Anything else indicates your CA certificates are out of date. I've attached an 
OpenSSL output showing what you should see if your system has an up to date CA 
bundle.

Perl LWP calls in GiP will be using the system CA bundle and will encounter the 
same issues as your OpenSSL tests. You can manually bodge Perl to skip the cert 
verification by setting

export PERL_LWP_SSL_VERIFY_HOSTNAME=0

However, this is widely regarded as a bad move - any subsequent connection will 
never actually be verified as safe until that env variable is reset.


I use CentOS. Using the curl.haxx.se PEM CA bundle (in combination with the 
Fedora/RHEL/CentOS update-ca-trust tool) I verified TLS connections to both 
that VOD endpoint and the main bbc.co.uk site OK.

I don't use GiP on Linux though so can't check atm - and OpenSUSE's method for 
updating certs (and where they're stored in the filesystem) will differ from 
CentOS.

If you haven't already got it installed, try installing ca-certificates-mozilla:
# zypper install ca-certificates-mozilla


If that doesn't work, you'll need to set about manually updating the CA bundle.
I usually recommend the curl.haxx.se bundle - 
https://curl.haxx.se/docs/sslcerts.html

I don't use OpenSUSE Leap, but there's plenty of discussions about CA bundle 
location, update method etc...

https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/530383-Looking-for-ca-certificates-crt-file-where-is-it
https://blog.hqcodeshop.fi/archives/157-Installing-own-CA-root-certificate-into-openSUSE.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/openSUSE/comments/498efy/updating_root_certificates/
https://github.com/openSUSE/ca-certificates (README in 
/usr/share/doc/packages/ca-certificates/)
https://forums.suse.com/showthread.php?9465-How-to-install-a-SSL-certificate=38033#post38033

CA bundles are a pain but important to get right. Easy to get yourself tied up 
in knots, so if you make any changes back up the entire /etc/pki/tls folder 
tree (/etc/ssl/certs is a symlink). Don't overwrite or delete CA files before 
you do this.

Be mindful of symlinks and recreate them where necessary (ls -a to see them.) 
Usually they're there for legacy purposes, certain files may be referenced by 
specific apps/libraries, and certs are sometimes not 'picked up' unless they go 
in certain anchor folders, etc.


If you use update-ca-certificates (recommended I think!) try starting by 
grabbing the latest CA bundle, putting it into the right folder and let the 
system do its thing.


glhf,
Chris
# openssl s_client -CAfile /etc/ssl/certs/ca-bundle.crt -connect 
vod-dash-uk-live.bbcfmt.hs.llnwd.net:443
CONNECTED(0003)
depth=2 C = GB, ST = Greater Manchester, L = Salford, O = COMODO CA Limited, CN 
= COMODO RSA Certification Authority
verify return:1
depth=1 C = GB, ST = Greater Manchester, L = Salford, O = COMODO CA Limited, CN 
= COMODO RSA Organization Validation Secure Server CA
verify return:1
depth=0 C = US, postalCode = 85281, ST = Arizona, L = Tempe, street = "222 
South Mill Avenue, Suite 800", O = "Limelight Networks, Inc.", OU = Unified 
Communications, CN = *.bbcfmt.hs.llnwd.net
verify return:1
---
Certificate chain
 0 s:/C=US/postalCode=85281/ST=Arizona/L=Tempe/street=222 South Mill Avenue, 
Suite 800/O=Limelight Networks, Inc./OU=Unified 
Communications/CN=*.bbcfmt.hs.llnwd.net
   i:/C=GB/ST=Greater Manchester/L=Salford/O=COMODO CA Limited/CN=COMODO RSA 
Organization Validation Secure Server CA
 1 s:/C=GB/ST=Greater Manchester/L=Salford/O=COMODO CA Limited/CN=COMODO RSA 
Organization Validation Secure Server CA
   i:/C=GB/ST=Greater Manchester/L=Salford/O=COMODO CA Limited/CN=COMODO RSA 
Certification Authority
---
Server certificate
-BEGIN 

RE: April fool or real?

[Chris Woods]

The Taster description indicates the live stream is being simulcast as FLAC 
(probably Ogg encapsulated FLAC) and there's probably browser detection to 
pass the FLAC stream to a Firefox client. Seems only the latest Firefox 
build has the appropriate libraries bundled for native support (due to the 
prior agreement between Mozilla and Xiph, developers of Ogg, Vorbis, Theora 
etc).


On-demand will be the usual formats at usual quality levels.

Enjoy this while it lasts!


On 5 April 2017 20:04:38  wrote:

R3 has regularly been in 320kbit/s (for UK terminating streams) for quite 
some time and it is a massive and noticeable improvement on the usual 
128kbit/s.


Even something as simple as audience applause sounds terrible at 128kbit/s 
with very strange ringing sounds.  320kbit/s makes a difference but this is 
also obviously not lossless.


I'm rather hoping that they keep this experiment going for the Proms - the 
acoustics of the RAH are difficult enough to deal with already without have 
to compress as well...


David

-Original Message-
From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On 
Behalf Of michael norman

Sent: 05 April 2017 19:56
To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org
Subject: Re: April fool or real?

Who knows.  Interesting that they choose Firefox as a default browser.
Be that as it may using FF here on Linux I can find this from R3

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0080fv2

as in Composer Of The Week Scott Joplin.

Which sounds pretty good to me.  I don't know how to tell the quality of 
streams, but judging by ear I'll guess FLAC.


My interest in R3 is limited to say the least, really only the Jazz stuff, 
my wider concern is digitalised music in the best possible quality.


If what I'm playing is the BBC's effort to do that, more power to them.

Mike




On 05/04/17 16:57, Jim Lesurf wrote:

Is this an 'April Fool' joke or a real trial? :-)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects/radio-3-concert-sound/inside-stor
y

Jim




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Re: OT - iPlayer access on SKY Q boxes in the news

[Chris Woods]

Sky doesn't use any public API for content delivery, and using on-demand on 
a Sky box doesn't directly access any BBC systems while downloading 
content, it comes from inside Sky's walled garden. The BBC system sends all 
content over, after it's been transcoded in the cloud, because Sky require 
delivered assets to be very particularly encoded and packaged according to 
their specs otherwise their platform can't understand it.


Even on a very fast pipe, you can imagine this would take a while... then 
there's however long Sky take to ingest the material on their side.


The 'Live to VOD' and 'File Based Delivery' methods used for the "main" 
iPlayer means programmes can be viewed about fifteen minutes after they've 
aired*, thanks to the magic of Video Factory.


* read "Video Factory: one year on", the "BBC iPlayer: bigger, better, 
faster" presentation by Rachel Evans and "Powering iPlayer from the cloud" 
on the BBC Academy site.



Delivery of iPlayer media to Sky used to be a moderately headache-inducing 
process from what I've heard, however it's now more streamlined and 
automated (still complicated!).


(opinion follows)
Sky don't really want to allow any third party branded portals for 
broadcasters to curate their own content in one place. Their argument is 
that they already have adequate categorization for discovery of on-demand, 
and want all providers to only offer their content through the Sky 
categories... Of course, Sky's own content may also be prioritised by their 
VOD interface based on what their marketing is pushing this week.


Given how Sky Q's interface is designed, a more nonpartisan "most popular" 
showcase would take a much lower priority on their EPG than the third party 
broadcaster menus. There's also the issue of the on-screen display simply 
not being designed to show that much per screen, so you could end up wading 
through massive lists for ages to find what you want - the antithesis of 
convenience and forward thinking design.


The iPlayer is a massive draw irrespective of platform, and so they have to 
provide at least some of what the customer wants. If Sky called the BBC's 
bluff and removed the iPlayer - and ITV, and All 4 - portals from Sky 
on-demand (and just merged the shows into genre menus), there'd be many 
complaints from customers and derisory laughter other broadcasters. (Eyes 
passim)



On 5 April 2017 3:33:10 p.m. Kevin Lynch  wrote:


This story from P13 Private Eye Vol 1441 (7 April '17) is OT but as
people who follow BBC iPlayer developments closely I thought it would
be interesting to see how the Sky Q box (presumably) continues to use
the legacy api and how the story explodes into questions about fair
access
It never occurred to me that the Sky boxes could be still on the older
API's, seems like the Private Eye journalist was briefed by someone
close to iPlayer development

Kevin

"WHY is a BBC iPlayer so useless?" asked Sky's pompous pundit-in-chief
Adam Boulton, playing catch-up and trying to find Andrew Neil's
interview with Theresa May on the day the PM had sent her Article 50
letter to Brussels. "Where are the @afneil interviews tonight?
Hearing from a Twitter follower who was watching the programme that
very moment on iPlayer, Boulton begged: "Where? How do I find it?"
Four minutes later he was still searching: All I can find is lame BBC
drama and bloody Red Nose Day
Stymied at every turn, Boulton's frustration only grew as he ranted
about "fair access" and convinced himself the BBC was sabotaging
access to its programmes for Sky customers. At 10.27pm (the interview
had gone out on BBC1 at 7pm) he concluded: "BTW it's still not on my
iPlayer and BBC News is patronising me"
Alas! Boulton should really take up his grievance with the recently appointed
chairman of Sky, James Murdoch. For it is Murdoch's company which has
refused to give viewers "fair access" to the BBC's standard iPlayer on
its supposedly state-of-the-art Q boxes, using instead an inferior
legacy version which takes on average three hours before programmes
are available, rather than letting audiences catch up from the moment
of broadcast
As Ofcom begins its investigation into whether even greater media power for the
Dirty Digger is in the public interest, it is unlikely to be impressed
by Sky's apparently cynical attempt to frustrate and restrict viewer
choice"

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Re: Problem with bounced mails

[Chris Woods]

I use Aquamail Pro on Android. Well worth the small cost. A nice feature is 
that volume keys control the text size in the interface.




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Re: OT: why were BBC archives deleted or destroyed?

[Chris Woods]

Plus nobody thought they were of any value. Before VHS, DVDs, selling radio 
series on cassette or whatever, and iPlayer, once something had been 
broadcast the only value it had was if the BBC wanted to repeat broadcast 
it. They couldn't see the future, and didn't have a "library" mindset.




On 4 Aug 2016, at 14:20, Colin Law  wrote:


On 4 August 2016 at 14:06, artisticforge .  wrote:
Hello

This is off-topic but it is of importance to the people who listen to the BBC.

Why were BBC archives deleted or destroyed?


Incompetence and cock-up mostly I imagine.

Colin


As people realised its historical significance, people did begin to 
archive. Sometimes departments and teams did this somewhat unofficially But 
economics prevailed in some cases - tapes being wiped for reuse, etc. 
Physical recording medium is expensive and difficult to drive - so you'd 
struggle to justify fresh tape for every single episode of every show. Some 
stuff was just lost through admin cock-up.


Yet for all this, the BBC probably has one of the richest archives of any 
organisation (outside of the niche media archival organisations), not 
including the international content they hoover up as part of Monitoring's 
activities.



In sharp contrast to the analogue era, very little is erased now. 
Information & Archives has the never-ending task of categorising, sorting 
and finding footage, audio and text from decades past alongside handling 
the stream of new content created daily. Sport has a team of Media Managers 
dedicated to ingest and organisation (and supply) of content simply because 
there's so much of it.


The problem (and temptation) is that it's easy to record every single 
second of everything as it's 'just 0s and 1s', even if it doesn't really 
merit archiving. As a result, terabytes of broadcast video and audio is 
archived in multiple places on multiple systems for various reasons every day.


So is the BBC paying more than it strictly needs to in order to archive 
every single waking moment, when really if it just archives things like 
news reports and related raw footage, isolated cameras for important live 
events and the usual gamut of feeds for sport... Does it need anything 
else? I don't think the future will really see any cultural benefit from 
twenty years of Pointless or Gardeners Question Time.


It is a lot simpler from a technological and financial standpoint to 
archive audio, so perhaps more of a case to keep blanket archiving that stuff.


Digitisation of things like the old Radio Times collections (now basically 
complete, though being constantly refined) and other old publications is 
probably as or more important, so the research and sleuthing being done to 
find old stuff is important to continue.




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Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

[Chris Woods]

Yep my apologies, should have clarified. I was referring to the recording 
(capture) of the TXed content for encoding, not the original studio / 
location session. :)


You'll know this Dave, but for sake of others if they're curious: 
programmes require editorial and compliance sign-off before TX so can't 
just be arbitrarily edited (for iPlayer or anything else). There are a few 
programmes for which edited "reversions" are done and AIUI those are 
sometimes delivered retrospectively.


Aside from that, an edit of a TXed programme will only be republished if 
there's a proper howler (like someone swearing live, a potentially libelous 
statement or factual inaccuracy).



On 1 July 2016 1:20:04 a.m. "Dave Liquorice" <allso...@howhill.com> wrote:


On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 20:30:51 +0100, Chris Woods wrote:


As I understand it, programmes are recorded with buffer time then may be
manually reviewed and trimmed if there's too much cruft.


Several ways to interperet that.

It's a good few years since I was engineering BBC radio programmes but
generally speaking shows with "people gathered around a microphone" were
made to time. If there is fluff in a read a stopwatch comes in handy,
stopped and started as appropiate. There was little to no "buffer time".
Shows with prerecorded sections would have the links written so the total
duration was within ten of seconds or so of the required duration. The
editing of the prerecorded sections would of course be done taking into
account the required overall duration. And considerable amounts of material
could be "out takes" or not...

I doubt that the BBC has substanially changed it's operating procedures. The
programmes producer would listen to the finished programme and sign it off
as "ready for transmission". A programme tape not signed off would not be
transmitted. Network would request a duration at the commissioning stage and
generally speaking that duration was stuck to +/- a loose 10 seconds. If a
programme ran 28'45" that is the time it would occupy, if it *had* to be
adjusted it *had* to go back to the producer, the changes made and signed
off again. The producer is where the buck stops, only they can make
decisions about what can or can't be cut. No one in continuity has the
authority to make changes.

IIRC 28'30" was (is..) the requested duration of a 1/2 hour radio a show.
The durations quoted are 28'30" +/- "a loose ten seconds"

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

[Chris Woods]

For a half hour programme I'd expect around 28 or 29 minutes. Leaves space 
for credit reads, trails for forthcoming shows etc. It wouldn't make sense 
to do a full thirty minutes as there would be no slack in the schedule and 
that flexibility sometimes comes in quite useful.


As I understand it, programmes are recorded with buffer time then may be 
manually reviewed and trimmed if there's too much cruft.



On 30 June 2016 6:20:53 p.m. CJB  wrote:


Thank Don

I'll check out others over the weekend. But this has been going on for
years.The Beeb says that it adds 2 mins to the start and end of a
prog. but if  programme is say 30 mins long then the file should be 34
mins not 28 or less etc.!!

Chris B

On 29/06/2016, Don Grunbaum (Gmail)  wrote:

I have found that some programmes are truncated when they are first
available on iPlayer.

They get corrected later, presumably because someone tells the "beeb"
of the problem.

Don

- Original Message -
From: "artisticforge ." 
To: "CJB" 
Cc: "get_iplayer" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer



hello

I am not sure what you mean by 'Truncated".
The original show content appears to be entirely there.
The download is not 30 minutes long. The BBC Radio Preamble and
Post-amble are  trimmed off.


On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 9:49 AM, CJB  wrote:

Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

Brit. comedies and likely many other progs on Radio this week on
iPlayer appear to be truncated at the end.

Hancock's Half Hour - The Idol, BBC Radio 4 Extra (b007jq3k)

Duration: 27:41.73

The Men From the Ministry - Nothing But the Vest, BBC Radio 4 Extra
(b007jz45)

Duration: 28:14.16

The Navy Lark - The Poveys Move House, BBC Radio 4 Extra (b01n2vcg)

Duration: 28:44.26

Parsley Sidings: Series 1 - Goodbye Parsley Sidings, BBC Radio 4
Extra
(b008s3d0)

Duration: 28:15.21

CJB

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--
terry l. ridder ><>

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