On Jan 29, 2014, at 23:04, Michael Natterer wrote:
All discussion aside, I have promised the guys that this would
go in a long time ago, and just needs some cleanup.
then it was a complete waste of my time and expertise to
get involved. it should not have been asked, if no one
wanted to know
Alexandre Prokoudine writes:
words heavily depends on user's background. E.g. younger and less
experienced users don't get the way all crop-related functions in GIMP
are translated into Russian, because typically they are not familiar
with photography terminology and expect simpler words.
On Tue, 2014-01-28 at 13:47 +0100, peter sikking wrote:
Mitch wrote:
I really don't know where the problem is here.
now that I was asked to get involved, read the spec and
made an analysis, here is what the problem is:
TITo, as it stands today, is a UI subsystem for which it
was
On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 12:12 AM, Chris Mohler cr33...@gmail.com wrote:
I bet I could type 'wav' and it would head the list
(if not, 'wavel' should bring it to #1).
I finally checked out the branch and it's really quite nice. '/, w,
a, v, enter' and the Wavelet decompose dialog pops up.
I
Also, having the recent file names available/listed is a fantastic.
CTRL-$N is nice, but I tend to remember *what* I was working on recently
as opposed to exactly *when*.
Chris
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Hi all,
(evil top quoting because I don't really know where to start replying)
I really don't know where the problem is here.
Peter, when we spoke in Berlin last time we discussed tito aka menu
search, the outcome was:
- it's not even visible by default
- it has a shortcut that pops up a
Mitch wrote:
I really don't know where the problem is here.
now that I was asked to get involved, read the spec and
made an analysis, here is what the problem is:
TITo, as it stands today, is a UI subsystem for which it
was never decided whether it was a search/help system or
a command
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:47 PM, peter sikking wrote:
TITo, as it stands today, is a UI subsystem for which it
was never decided whether it was a search/help system or
a command interpreter. trying to be both, it is simply
substandard at either tasks.
(yes, there is a hard trade-off between
Hi,
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 10:23 AM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
(first of all I think all blur examples have to be banned. there
is nothing to search about blur, it is under Filters-blur, end
of story. if it is not clear that it is to be found in the Filters
menu, or as a
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 3:23 PM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
TITo has to be competitive with
googling GIMP user’s search term
...or else be ‘useless!’
That's a rather remarkable statement ;)
Try replacing any instance of blur in the discussion so far with
Wavelet Decompose. Oh,
Jehan,
please read again what I wrote:
let me first of all say this in general about the process we are
doing. at this moment I feel we are still working backwards, i.e.
you are answering to me what the code does.
we have to work forward, else there will be no progress.
this means we
Sven wrote:
look what I found in the former Google Summer of Code
ideas:
http://wiki.gimp.org/index.php/Hacking:GSoC/Future/Ideas#Make_menus_searchable
I think it could perhaps shed some light about the
Action Search Tools purpose and further treatment,
at least it's an attempt.
I think
Hi,
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:10 AM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
Jehan,
let me first of all say this in general about the process we are
doing. at this moment I feel we are still working backwards, i.e.
you are answering to me what the code does.
we have to work forward, else
Jehan,
let me first of all say this in general about the process we are
doing. at this moment I feel we are still working backwards, i.e.
you are answering to me what the code does.
we have to work forward, else there will be no progress.
this means we write down the goal/purpose/vision that
Jehan,
thank you for making this step.
with some effort from me (moderating) and some from
you (making clarifying choices) we will have this thing
shaped. it will just take an email exchange.
allow me to summarise what you said:
The action search tool allows to search for and run commands in a
Hi,
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Michael Natterer mi...@gimp.org wrote:
On Tue, 2014-01-21 at 00:10 +0100, peter sikking wrote:
1) you say “action search tool.” is it not menu item search tool?
an _action_ search would search the toolbox tools, the layer
stack and all dockable dialogs
El vie, 17-01-2014 a las 01:05 -0500, Liam R E Quin escribió:
There used to be a recently used menu from Filters (actually there
still is, but it doesn't list filters implemented in GEGL in 2.9; I
expect this will get fixed and I should check there's a bug for it)
A useful enhancement would
Hi,
now that I i see the discussion has started and
have to see how it ends with frustration let me contribute my 2c, too.
As far as I could reproduce the former discussions the whole topic
started at the GIMP developer mailing list in February 2012.
For instance see the history at
Sven,
I appreciate that you want to mediate to make things go forward.
Srihari has brought up this topic often and informed about
the progress. Many people, including Peter, joined the
discussion and the purpose was already discussed.
So, many things are not really new.
as things stand
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:53 AM, peter sikking wrote:
Sven,
I appreciate that you want to mediate to make things go forward.
Srihari has brought up this topic often and informed about
the progress. Many people, including Peter, joined the
discussion and the purpose was already discussed.
On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 3:53 PM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
(anybody can contribute to this, [...])
Allow me to contribute what I would like to see from a feature like this.
‘the Undo system is valuable to GIMP users because it
allows them to proceed without fear (of doing
My version of what it is:
Action Search (aka TITO) is valuable to gimp users because it
provides easy access to moderately used features of the gimp without
memorization of the gimp's menu layout or keyboard shortcuts.
Even experienced power users won't know (shouldn't be forced to
memorize)
On Mon, 2014-01-20 at 01:03 +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:53 AM, peter sikking wrote:
if the purpose of TITo is so clear, then tell me what it is,
including a few words why it is valuable for GIMP users.
Peter, you have been already told exactly that, in few
Hi,
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 9:53 AM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
Sven,
I appreciate that you want to mediate to make things go forward.
Srihari has brought up this topic often and informed about
the progress. Many people, including Peter, joined the
discussion and the purpose
On 19.01.2014 21:53, peter sikking wrote:
as things stand right now, the biggest thing that is wrong
with TITo is that there seems to be no underlying purpose.
lacking this it is a rather jumbled combination of features,
which exactly expresses this purposelessness.
if the purpose of TITo
Hi,
thank you for your replies. I thought by myself it could
be of value to summarize the former discussions here
and in IRC etc. to give all the people involved the
same state of knowledge.
But doing this would take some time and require to have
less time for other tasks on my todo list (Wiki,
Srihari Sriraman wrote:
So yes, to a good extent I think I stirred up the cross cutting intentions,
feature muddle for tito.
Sorry.. G,DR ;)
this matches what my conclusions is about TITo (having an internal
code name that is as snappy as that is a good thing):
moving goal posts up to the
this matches what my conclusions is about TITo
Admitting to confusion in the past isn't the same as being confused today.
That is a straw man fallacy, and is not cool.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
‘An action search dialog’ is a pure functional statement, it does not
express why
On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 12:05 AM, Liam R E Quin l...@holoweb.net wrote:
Some things I always have trouble finding include
. text to path
. save channel to file
. crop to selection (hint: it's not under Edit or Layers)
I look for 'flatten image' under 'Layers' every single time it seems
:/
Hello Peter!
2014/1/14 peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net
Srihari Sriraman wrote:
Have we had a chance to look into this?
OK, I have looked at that spec.
... (removed lines about the stomach)
the problem with TITo is that as it stands now it is a
conflicted mix of two intentions:
1)
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 5:54 PM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
And yet the desktop menu in Mint/Cinnamon does precisely this and it
*is* fast. [...]
let me give an example of what I mean in a GIMP context (because
that is the only thing that counts).
if a particular user uses
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 4:15 AM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
when you have successfully taken steps 1–5 you can get
TITo into the standard GIMP release. if you decline, or
are unable, to complete any steps, then as far as I am
concerned TITo will not get into the standard GIMP
Hello Peter,
thank you for this mail. It answers all my questions and I think it is very
productive. Perhaps even both 1) and 2) can be implemented as two separate
systems.
Regards
Tobias
2014/1/15 peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net
Burnie West wrote:
On 01/14/2014 03:13 PM, Chris Mohler
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 4:32 AM, Simon Budig si...@budig.de wrote:
Chris Mohler (cr33...@gmail.com) wrote:
$ui_god has spoken, and wrothfully: look out!
I don't think it is fair to get snarky at peter, especially after he has
carefully explained what his concerns are.
His concerns seem to
Chris Mohler (cr33...@gmail.com) wrote:
His concerns seem to be be... unfounded.
So, what *is* Tito? A help system or a command line system? I have not
seen an answer to that yet.
And yes, I agree with Peter that this is a vital question.
I mean: where does the it must be A or B come from?
Tobias Jakobs wrote:
the problem with TITo is that as it stands now it is a
conflicted mix of two intentions:
1) a help system via text search to learn using GIMP
2) a command-line system for operating GIMP
Can you tell us which feature is 1) and which is 2)?
I think you are proving my
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Simon Budig si...@budig.de wrote:
So, what *is* Tito? A help system or a command line system? I have not
seen an answer to that yet.
Why the distinction? We now have A vs B when neither were the
intent... (or maybe I'm wrong - ask the authors, see the video ;)
Am 15.01.2014 11:15, schrieb peter sikking:
I actually did not say that. I do not see it that way.
and instead of going into the smaller points that are being raised
in the replies to my previous post, I am going concentrate on
the main point.
Structuring the design process is ‘half the
On 01/15/2014 11:18 AM, Chris Mohler wrote:
A counter-example: I need the 'Newsprint' filter every 2 months or so,
but for some reason can't seem to remember which filter menu it's
under. Why is it such a disaster to expose that filter to a search? A
follow-up question: (without looking - no
Am 15.01.2014 19:11, schrieb Simon Budig:
Tobias Oelgarte (tobias.oelga...@googlemail.com) wrote:
I can't really follow your arguments. You want something to be
either the one thing or the other. But does a user really want the
one thing or the other?
Well, as far as I interpreted peter it
Hi Peter, and all,
Wow this created quite a discussion. I am on the road, so I have just
been skimming through the whole thread, and I will answer to the
first.
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 7:52 AM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
Srihari Sriraman wrote:
Have we had a chance to look into
Hey everyone,
Thanks a lot Jehan. My opinions are almost the same as yours.
Tito is a cute internal/code name, but an action search dialog is what it
is now.
Here's something that'll hopefully clarify a couple of things:
Earlier, during the early development stages of 'tito', it was envisioned
Srihari Sriraman wrote:
Have we had a chance to look into this?
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jehan Pagès jehan.marmott...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello Peter,
Some time ago, a contributor developed a very interesting feature,
allowing to search actions with natural language keywords
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:52 PM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
- even if TITo response time is instant, keyword formulation -
typing in a text based interface is not exactly fast;
please drop the ‘its fast’ argument;
And yet the desktop menu in Mint/Cinnamon does precisely this
As Peter pointed out - what do you type in on Mint/Cinnamon if you happen to
speak Chinese?
On 01/14/2014 01:43 PM, Chris Mohler wrote:
And yet the desktop menu in Mint/Cinnamon does precisely this and it
*is* fast. I type Win-key,c,h,r,Enter and have Chromium running.
Easy. Faster than
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Burnie West w...@ieee.org wrote:
As Peter pointed out - what do you type in on Mint/Cinnamon if you happen
to speak Chinese?
Either the same string, or a string that matches the translated
portions of the menu entry (or its description).
Staying with the same
On Jan 14, 2014, at 22:43, Chris Mohler wrote:
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:52 PM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
- even if TITo response time is instant, keyword formulation -
typing in a text based interface is not exactly fast;
please drop the ‘its fast’ argument;
And yet the
On 01/14/2014 03:13 PM, Chris Mohler wrote:
Staying with the same example, then English menu entry is 'Chromium
Web Browser'. When switching to Spanish or Chinese, the 'Chromium'
remains the same while 'Web Browser' is translated.
I read peter's objection to the requirement that the entire
On 01/14/2014 11:48 PM, Burnie West wrote:
As Peter pointed out - what do you type in on Mint/Cinnamon if you
happen to speak Chinese?
On 01/14/2014 01:43 PM, Chris Mohler wrote:
And yet the desktop menu in Mint/Cinnamon does precisely this and it
*is* fast. I type Win-key,c,h,r,Enter and
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Ofnuts ofn...@laposte.net wrote:
On 01/14/2014 01:43 PM, Chris Mohler wrote:
And yet the desktop menu in Mint/Cinnamon does precisely this and it
*is* fast. I type Win-key,c,h,r,Enter and have Chromium running.
Easy. Faster than the menu navigation. I go
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Burnie West w...@ieee.org wrote:
Staying with the same example, then English menu entry is 'Chromium
Web Browser'. When switching to Spanish or Chinese, the 'Chromium'
remains the same while 'Web Browser' is translated.
I read peter's objection to the
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 5:54 PM, peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote:
it takes mental time
and effort for users to get to the point of hitting that key
(and you and I and all other users do not record that time loss,
because we are so busy figuring out the shortcut; this means none
of us
On Wed, 2014-01-15 at 00:08 -0600, Chris Mohler wrote:
[...]
So I'm the only one using keyboard shortcuts then? You actually File-Save
with your *mouse*? How to you enter text on your text layers?
My partner is an artist and almost never uses keyboard shortcuts. I use
them all the time.
It
15 янв. 2014 г. 4:45 пользователь Ofnuts ofn...@laposte.net написал:
In Gimp you have only one hand (the other one is on the mouse/tablet).
Either you lose time going back and forth between mouse and keyboard to use
both hands on the keyboard, or your non-mouse hand goes in hunt-and-peck
mode on
Hello Jehan, Peter,
Have we had a chance to look into this?
Just wanted to check in here in case I've missed discussions on IRC.
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jehan Pagès jehan.marmott...@gmail.comwrote:
Hello Peter,
Some time ago, a contributor developed a very interesting feature,
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