Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Bill Skaggs]

One shouldn't necessarily write off the value of GSOC projects. For
example, on-canvas text editing resulted from a GSOC project. The key to a
useful project, I believe, is to have a limited and well-defined objective
that does not require a deep understanding of major parts of the GIMP code
base. It isn't impossible to come up with projects of that type.

Bill

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 5:56 AM, Jehan Pagès 
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> For the record, our would-be intern had a job proposal, and therefore had
> to cancel his GSoC proposition. He even asked me if that is OK, and
> obviously I told him to do what's best for him!
>
> Anyway this was quite interesting to see a bit the possibilities for GSoC.
> Maybe next year, we'll try "for real", telling people beforehand we wish to
> participate, etc. If once again I am the only available mentor, I might
> once more integrate into another project, like GNU.
>
> Also for anyone disappointed, I would like to reassure you: if there is one
> thing that should be learned from past GSoC participation of GIMP, it is
> that GSoC is far from the best way to improve a software. Personally I am
> mostly interested in it because it is nice to help some students discover
> real development world and mentor them. And maybe these students will even
> stay regular contributors *afterwards*! If we can get a few cool patches in
> the process, this is cool. But this event should not be considered as a
> cheap way to get code. Any project which relies mostly on this to improve
> will mostly get hardly maintainable code.
>
> When I see how some people seem to see GSoC as a miraculous event which we
> should absolutely join, I am a bit dubious on how you envision this event.
> Whatever your job is, picture yourself when you were student. Now imagine
> that you suddenly dropped your student self into your current position
> which you are in after years of hard work and learning the job though
> actual real-life projects, successes and failures. Do you really believe
> that your student self would have just revolutionnized your current job in
> just a few months? I hope you don't say yes, because that would be a bit
> sad if you don't believe you evolved since you were students! ;p
>
> In the end, whatever the regular developers do in the same time as any
> intern is 100 times more important, and I remind that some of us (including
> myself) are even trying to make a living from GIMP development through
> crowdfunding with quite weak success for now. Just a small reminder so that
> people know they can crowdfund us (in case of my own project, all links in
> my signature) which will be more efficient for any of the goals you
> proposed in this thread or others than what GSoC could bring us (even if
> still a cool event, but for helping good students mostly, as I said, not
> for magically cheap, fast and quality code).
>
> Have fun everyone!
>
> Jehan
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:50 PM, Joseph Bupe  wrote:
>
> > I would be happy to see free-angled guides implemented. These can be
> handy
> > in many situations for graphics designing.
> >
> > Something started a couple of years back
> > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344109
> >
> > On 6 March 2018 at 17:21, C R  wrote:
> > > Is it possible to task the student(s) with getting more GEGL
> integration?
> > > GIMP really needs that to speed up image processing and previews.
> > >
> > > I mean like REALLY REALLY needs that more than just about any new toys
> > > they can dream up. :)
> > >
> > > My 2p.
> > > -C
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine
> > >  wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:04 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Having read the above I had the idea that it could be worth having a
> > > student
> > > >> work on one or more of the previous GSoC projects
> > > >
> > > > Google is usually extremely unhappy with this.
> > > >
> > > > Alex
> >
>
>
> --
> ZeMarmot open animation film
> http://film.zemarmot.net
> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi!

For the record, our would-be intern had a job proposal, and therefore had
to cancel his GSoC proposition. He even asked me if that is OK, and
obviously I told him to do what's best for him!

Anyway this was quite interesting to see a bit the possibilities for GSoC.
Maybe next year, we'll try "for real", telling people beforehand we wish to
participate, etc. If once again I am the only available mentor, I might
once more integrate into another project, like GNU.

Also for anyone disappointed, I would like to reassure you: if there is one
thing that should be learned from past GSoC participation of GIMP, it is
that GSoC is far from the best way to improve a software. Personally I am
mostly interested in it because it is nice to help some students discover
real development world and mentor them. And maybe these students will even
stay regular contributors *afterwards*! If we can get a few cool patches in
the process, this is cool. But this event should not be considered as a
cheap way to get code. Any project which relies mostly on this to improve
will mostly get hardly maintainable code.

When I see how some people seem to see GSoC as a miraculous event which we
should absolutely join, I am a bit dubious on how you envision this event.
Whatever your job is, picture yourself when you were student. Now imagine
that you suddenly dropped your student self into your current position
which you are in after years of hard work and learning the job though
actual real-life projects, successes and failures. Do you really believe
that your student self would have just revolutionnized your current job in
just a few months? I hope you don't say yes, because that would be a bit
sad if you don't believe you evolved since you were students! ;p

In the end, whatever the regular developers do in the same time as any
intern is 100 times more important, and I remind that some of us (including
myself) are even trying to make a living from GIMP development through
crowdfunding with quite weak success for now. Just a small reminder so that
people know they can crowdfund us (in case of my own project, all links in
my signature) which will be more efficient for any of the goals you
proposed in this thread or others than what GSoC could bring us (even if
still a cool event, but for helping good students mostly, as I said, not
for magically cheap, fast and quality code).

Have fun everyone!

Jehan


On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:50 PM, Joseph Bupe  wrote:

> I would be happy to see free-angled guides implemented. These can be handy
> in many situations for graphics designing.
>
> Something started a couple of years back
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344109
>
> On 6 March 2018 at 17:21, C R  wrote:
> > Is it possible to task the student(s) with getting more GEGL integration?
> > GIMP really needs that to speed up image processing and previews.
> >
> > I mean like REALLY REALLY needs that more than just about any new toys
> > they can dream up. :)
> >
> > My 2p.
> > -C
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine
> >  wrote:
> > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:04 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> > >
> > >> Having read the above I had the idea that it could be worth having a
> > student
> > >> work on one or more of the previous GSoC projects
> > >
> > > Google is usually extremely unhappy with this.
> > >
> > > Alex
>


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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Joseph Bupe]

I would be happy to see free-angled guides implemented. These can be handy
in many situations for graphics designing.

Something started a couple of years back
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344109




On 6 March 2018 at 17:21, C R  wrote:

> [image: Boxbe]  This message is eligible
> for Automatic Cleanup! (caj...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule
> 
> | More info
> 
>
> Is it possible to task the student(s) with getting more GEGL integration?
> GIMP really needs that to speed up image processing and previews.
>
> I mean like REALLY REALLY needs that more than just about any new toys
> they can dream up. :)
>
> My 2p.
> -C
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine
>  wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:04 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> >
> >> Having read the above I had the idea that it could be worth having a
> student
> >> work on one or more of the previous GSoC projects
> >
> > Google is usually extremely unhappy with this.
> >
> > Alex
> > ___
> > gimp-developer-list mailing list
> > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-
> developer-list
> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
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>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Pat David]

I’m inclined to agree with this.

Pat

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:21 AM C R  wrote:

> Is it possible to task the student(s) with getting more GEGL integration?
> GIMP really needs that to speed up image processing and previews.
>
> I mean like REALLY REALLY needs that more than just about any new toys
> they can dream up. :)
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Elle Stone]

On 03/05/2018 05:29 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote:


If you want to contribute ideas, you can add them to the wiki:
https://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Hacking:GSoC/2018/Ideas
Please if you do so, if you could add some explanatory links too, that
would be awesome, because I would not be able to implement several of
your propositions without some serious reading myself.


How does one log in to the wiki? I seem to recall from long ago (the one 
time that I tried to use the wiki) that I ended up logging in as someone 
else. I don't know what password or user name I might have used, and I 
don't see a link for creating a new account.


I just tried to add a high bit depth unbounded floating point color to a 
new color palette, and the color was clamped to 8-bit RGB, changing the 
LCH Hue by 15 degrees! This is a rather large change in color! and 
rendered my effort to put together an image-specific color palette quite 
useless.


It seems to me that an unbounded floating point RGB image editor at 
least needs to support unclamped high bit depth RGB color palettes, even 
if the palettes are "sRGB only" instead of also supporting the 
color-space-independent LCH, and/or providing a field for specifying the 
RGB color space primaries.


FWIW, I filed a bug report:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794184

Best,
Elle
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[C R]

Is it possible to task the student(s) with getting more GEGL integration?
GIMP really needs that to speed up image processing and previews.

I mean like REALLY REALLY needs that more than just about any new toys
they can dream up. :)

My 2p.
-C

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine
 wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:04 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote:
>
>> Having read the above I had the idea that it could be worth having a student
>> work on one or more of the previous GSoC projects
>
> Google is usually extremely unhappy with this.
>
> Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:04 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote:

> Having read the above I had the idea that it could be worth having a student
> work on one or more of the previous GSoC projects

Google is usually extremely unhappy with this.

Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Kevin Cozens]

On 2018-03-05 05:29 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote:

The main reason why GIMP stopped doing GSoC is because we were giving the
students very awesome projects, and even though the final results were
very cool proof-of-concepts (so the students did do very good work), they
were not finished (either extremely buggy, with bad standard code, or so 
slow that it was unusable on real data, etc.) and they had been a dead 
weight to the GIMP project for years (even nowadays, some older student

projects are still making issues).


Having read the above I had the idea that it could be worth having a student 
work on one or more of the previous GSoC projects instead of adding 
something new which could become another bit of dead weight. Have them make 
a previous GSoC project work faster, or improve the coding style, fix bugs, 
add missing pieces, or just add the polishing touches.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi!

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:09 PM, Elle Stone
 wrote:
> On 03/05/2018 03:54 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote:
>>
>> Now we have to decide of a good project for GIMP/Darshan since GSoC
>> needs us to decide this first. Note that, as already said previously,
>> I am more in favor of feasible and more concrete projects for GIMP,
>> even though maybe less fancy looking that what we used to have for
>> GSoC. Something which will definitely end up in GIMP in the end.:-)
>
>
> Some suggestions focused on painting and color management:
>
> * Better LCH support including high bit depth LCH palettes (to replace
> current 8-bit sRGB palettes) and gradients, plus for the color pickers
> outlines showing LCH vs the user-selected RGB color space at any given
> Lightness value, and showing complements/color harmonies.
>
> * Improved soft proofing to compensate for deficiencies in LCMS soft
> proofing.
>
> * Improved painting assets in general, including brushes and brush dynamics,
> building on Americo's work on improving painting assets, and addressing a
> bunch of painting-related bug reports.

This is typically the kind of projects which are both "easy"
technically, but actually difficult to do right. Because it is not
only about stacking up various brushes which look cool and have as
many as possible in GIMP (especially in current situation where brush
management is so shitty that it is not a good idea to have too many).

We are discussing the topic with Aryeom and Americo and this is quite
harder than I thought it would be (I am the one who originally
proposed Americo to work on it).

So I definitely don't want to give this to a student. We will stick to
working with the artists who use them.

> * High bit depth brushes - Cinepaint supported 16-bit brushes, but it would
> probably be more efficient for GIMP to go straight to 32f brushes.

Interesting. Since everything is 32-bit internally already, will it
contribute to make painting faster as well?

> * An HDR viewer and improved HDR editing capabilities.
>
> * OCIO color management
>
> * Improved support for AnyRGB and AnyTRC.
>
> * Adding JCH and CIECAM02 support, following the lead set by RawTherapee's
> extensive and incredibly useful (for artistic purposes as well as
> compensating for viewing conditions) CIECAM02 support.

If you want to contribute ideas, you can add them to the wiki:
https://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Hacking:GSoC/2018/Ideas
Please if you do so, if you could add some explanatory links too, that
would be awesome, because I would not be able to implement several of
your propositions without some serious reading myself.

Remember that this is for a student. The main reason why GIMP stopped
doing GSoC is because we were giving the students very awesome
projects, and even though the final results were very cool
proof-of-concepts (so the students did do very good work), they were
not finished (either extremely buggy, with bad standard code, or so
slow that it was unusable on real data, etc.) and they had been a dead
weight to the GIMP project for years (even nowadays, some older
student projects are still making issues).

Well that is from a time where I barely started contributing myself,
so I am just telling what I gathered, and basically I want to try and
take into account the "elder's" experience (old farts! ;p) to really
get something good out of such a project. That may mean less ambitious
ideas (which does not mean they are not just as important for GIMP!).
:-)

Jehan

> Best,
> Elle
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Elle Stone]

On 03/05/2018 03:54 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote:

Now we have to decide of a good project for GIMP/Darshan since GSoC
needs us to decide this first. Note that, as already said previously,
I am more in favor of feasible and more concrete projects for GIMP,
even though maybe less fancy looking that what we used to have for
GSoC. Something which will definitely end up in GIMP in the end.:-)


Some suggestions focused on painting and color management:

* Better LCH support including high bit depth LCH palettes (to replace 
current 8-bit sRGB palettes) and gradients, plus for the color pickers 
outlines showing LCH vs the user-selected RGB color space at any given 
Lightness value, and showing complements/color harmonies.


* Improved soft proofing to compensate for deficiencies in LCMS soft 
proofing.


* Improved painting assets in general, including brushes and brush 
dynamics, building on Americo's work on improving painting assets, and 
addressing a bunch of painting-related bug reports.


* High bit depth brushes - Cinepaint supported 16-bit brushes, but it 
would probably be more efficient for GIMP to go straight to 32f brushes.


* An HDR viewer and improved HDR editing capabilities.

* OCIO color management

* Improved support for AnyRGB and AnyTRC.

* Adding JCH and CIECAM02 support, following the lead set by 
RawTherapee's extensive and incredibly useful (for artistic purposes as 
well as compensating for viewing conditions) CIECAM02 support.


Best,
Elle
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi!

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Jehan Pagès  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine
>  wrote:
>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Darshan  kadu wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I am Darshan Kadu Intern at FSF working on GNU GIMP as the task of the
>>> internship.
>>>
>>> I would like to contribute to the GNU GIMP as part of GSoC also, as GNU is
>>> participating too.
>>>
>>> But I don't see the page giving any description of the project.
>>> So does that means I cant contribute to GIMP for GSoC?
>>> If yes how to proceed further?
>>
>> Hi Darshan,
>>
>> We are not participating at GSoC as a standalone organisation, and we
>> haven't discussed doing it under any umbrella project with any
>> umbrella project.
>
> As Prokoudine said, we have not any plan doing this yet, but I would
> not be against. You should ask people at GNU if they would accept to
> give us a slot. They are the only one who would be able to tell you if
> it is ok.

For the record, GNU accepted our request, and invited me as a mentor.
So I am now subscribed as a GSoC mentor for GNU.
This does not gives us automatically a slot. I assume in the end, the
choice will depend on how many slots are given to GNU. We'll see.

Since there is a slight overlap in the schedule of the current FSF
internship and GSoC, I asked the FSF contacts if that would be a
problem. Since having Darshan as a GSoC student would be beneficial to
both GIMP (longer contribution from Darshan) and Darshan himself, they
said that would not be a problem to wrap up the FSF internship earlier
if our project got accepted for GSoC.

Now we have to decide of a good project for GIMP/Darshan since GSoC
needs us to decide this first. Note that, as already said previously,
I am more in favor of feasible and more concrete projects for GIMP,
even though maybe less fancy looking that what we used to have for
GSoC. Something which will definitely end up in GIMP in the end. :-)

Jehan

>> P.S. We are GIMP, not GNU GIMP :)
>
> Indeed. The first 'G' already means "GNU". You were basically
> repeating: GNU GNU Image Manipulation Program. ;p
>
> Jehan
>
>> Alex
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>
>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi!

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine
 wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Darshan  kadu wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am Darshan Kadu Intern at FSF working on GNU GIMP as the task of the
>> internship.
>>
>> I would like to contribute to the GNU GIMP as part of GSoC also, as GNU is
>> participating too.
>>
>> But I don't see the page giving any description of the project.
>> So does that means I cant contribute to GIMP for GSoC?
>> If yes how to proceed further?
>
> Hi Darshan,
>
> We are not participating at GSoC as a standalone organisation, and we
> haven't discussed doing it under any umbrella project with any
> umbrella project.

As Prokoudine said, we have not any plan doing this yet, but I would
not be against. You should ask people at GNU if they would accept to
give us a slot. They are the only one who would be able to tell you if
it is ok.

> P.S. We are GIMP, not GNU GIMP :)

Indeed. The first 'G' already means "GNU". You were basically
repeating: GNU GNU Image Manipulation Program. ;p

Jehan

> Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Darshan  kadu wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am Darshan Kadu Intern at FSF working on GNU GIMP as the task of the
> internship.
>
> I would like to contribute to the GNU GIMP as part of GSoC also, as GNU is
> participating too.
>
> But I don't see the page giving any description of the project.
> So does that means I cant contribute to GIMP for GSoC?
> If yes how to proceed further?

Hi Darshan,

We are not participating at GSoC as a standalone organisation, and we
haven't discussed doing it under any umbrella project with any
umbrella project.

P.S. We are GIMP, not GNU GIMP :)

Alex
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[Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[Darshan kadu]

Hello,

I am Darshan Kadu Intern at FSF working on GNU GIMP as the task of the
internship.

I would like to contribute to the GNU GIMP as part of GSoC also, as GNU is
participating too.

But I don't see the page giving any description of the project.
So does that means I cant contribute to GIMP for GSoC?
If yes how to proceed further?


Thank you
Darshan
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