Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-07-17 Thread Bishan Singh
Greetings to all.

I thank both Peter Burgess and Guido Sohne for starting an important
debate on development.

Is development about replicating success and ensuring scarce
resources are used wisely.?

Yes, this is happening in communities where there is no intervention
from the government or the donors. In the experience of the Management
Institute for Social Change (MINSOC), people under such circumstances if
motivated and capacity built in leadership and management are able to
learn from others and use their resources optimally. This is the reason
why some NGOs have to a large extend been more successful than both the
governments and donors, that is before they themselves got trapped as
service providers to donors and governments.

Not many studies have been done of such anonymous development
initiatives. Those done are often those of show pieces undertaken
through donor funds call success cases. Replication in most cases is
not feasible without the element of donor funding - which is the
critical element that is coveneitntly forgotten in the replication
phase. So often replication becomes a failure and valuable resources are
squandered and the poor are brought up the garden path just to be left
stranded.

This reinforces Guido Sohne's view. In most ODA funded projects the
personnel and expert costs are often as high as 70% leaving only a
paltry sum for the beneficieries. Also it is important to note Sohne's
other point -  those who are assigned to work in developing countries
or those who are interested all too often are the less abled of the
developed world. The real geniuses go into cancer research and stuff
like that and leave the developed world wide open to those less abled.
So the consultants are not even smart enough in the first place and
right from square one, the resources are squandered.

The ODA community of the North seldom uses the services of the
consultants from the South, even though they may have better
qualification and greater ground experience. But in many cases such
local experts are hired as national or local consultants at one-tenth
the pay and cost with the international consultants. In most cases the
local consultants provide critical advice as well as end up doing more
work than international consultants. Ultimately the beneficieries of
ODA is not the South but the North. This equation most likely will not
change - unless the South realises that development assistances is not a
trickle down  but a suck up theory to open up the economy of the
South for the exploitation of the North.





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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-07-10 Thread Peter Burgess
In a message dated 6/25/2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Does anyone know if there are computer donation programmes that go
 beyond one-off donations? What if after a while people using donated
 computers need upgrading and/or replacement? Who takes responsibility
 for meeting with the created (long term) expectations of using
 computers?

I like your question.

One of the prevailing problems with development is that all the official
development assistance (ODA) community loves to announce that they have
started a program to address some currently popular problem, but they
rarely do enough of anything to make much of a success possible.

Development should be about replicating success and ensuring that the
scarce resources are used most wisely to achieve the greatest results.
But that rarely happens. There is little knowledge used in the
management of development and the allocation of scarce resources.
Instead scarce resources are squandered over and over again starting
things over instead of optimising what one might call a continuum of
development activities.

This is not a question of capacity in the SOUTH, or of corruption in
the SOUTH. This is a creation of the ODA community and the NORTH. It
optimises (maximises) the use of consultants from the NORTH while
reducing the resources available to the SOUTH.

But the SOUTH also has to figure out how to get what it needs without
being totally dependent on gifts from the NORTH. The SOUTH should be
able to make the case for getting help because it is doing great things
with the resource help, and is making measurable progress. With the
information easily available, it is not at all clear that gifts are
doing as much good as they could ... and it should be clear .
not necessarily before the gifts are given, but certainly afterwards.

In too many cases in my experience, computers were set up, computer
training took place, but the graduates of the computer training did not
have any jobs to go to. Yet the value of computers and trained computer
operators in the right business situation could be enormous ..
which brings me back to two recurring themes .. the need for better
understanding of the development process and the need for jobs.

Sincerely


Peter Burgess

Peter Burgess
ATCnet in New York
Tel: 212 772 6918 Fax: 707 371 7805
[EMAIL PROTECTED] for secure messages




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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-30 Thread Karen Higgs
Udit Chaudhuri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Perhaps the only way this would work is to:
 
 1  Collect computers used and donated in the command area itself, say
 executives and offices of international companies and other
 organisations who have imported the computers 3-4 years ago and are
 upgrading  their systems - incentivising (in token) or acknowledging
 their donation;

This all depends on the level of development and/or economic crisis in a
country.

At APC, we have been covering the efforts of one of our members based in
Argentina to equip local telecentres. They had originally planned to do
it this way - contacting businesses locally - but because of the
economic crisis it has been impossible. I'm assuming that this would be
the situation for most of the less developed countries in the world.

Now, fortunately, they have been put in contact with Computer Aid. We'll
continue to cover this story on the APC site. You can read more below.

Getting hold of computers for community telecentres in crisis-stricken
Argentina is a serious challenge

ROSARIO, Argentina, 06/07/2002 -- In the middle of one of the most
serious crises ever faced by Argentina it's not easy for APC member, TAU
to continue their dream of setting up self sustaining community computer
centres in poor neighbourhoods. Based in one of the worst hit cities,
former industrial heartland, Rosario, TAU is struggling to operate in a
country where spine-chilling statistics point to 15 million people
living below the poverty line out of a total population of 37 million,
60% of all children living in poverty and 25% of children are from
families where even basic food needs are not met. Nevertheless, TAU is
moving ahead with the implementation of three Community Computer Centres
(or telecentres) in two marginal neighbourhoods within the city of
Rosario and Capitan Bermudez, a town fifteen kilometers outside. -
APCNews 
http://www.apc.org/english/news/index.shtml?x=5050


Building Computer and Internet Skills in Argentina Remains a Challenge
but Demand Grows

ROSARIO, Argentina, 05/30/2003 -- APC member TAU, based in Argentina's
second city Rosario, has started meeting with organisations which are
interested in setting up community telecentres in their neighbourhood.
It looks like we'll be developing six new telecentres which will make
nine in total set up in Rosario and hinterland since last year, said
Luis Martinez, one of TAU's coordinators.

Getting hold of donated computers and other hardware is still a major
headache in a country that has suffered such an economic crisis that
most businesses are just not replacing their old machines as they did
previously. It's also proving really difficult getting even a basic
dial-up Internet connection in certain areas of the city, said Luis. -
APCNews 
http://www.apc.org/english/news/index.shtml?x=12181


Best wishes
Karen Higgs
APC




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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-27 Thread Roberto Verzola
To all who donate computers to developing countries (or local
intermediaries who solicit donations):

Have you ever considered simply sending the cash instead, with the final
recipient (not the local intermediary) deciding how to spend the cash
themselves? If the computers are already zero value (they are trash in
your society; you are in fact ready to spend money to dispose of them),
then why not send the cash equivalent of the shipping and handling
costs, taxes, etc.

Perhaps the recipient (again, not the local intermediary) will spend it
to build a new well, or buy musical instruments for the village (read
the book on Gaviotas), or on something else they see as more important
than computers.

Computer donations build future markets for hardware, software,
connectivity and consultancy.

The initial flow of free hardware, software, connectivity and
consultancy later generates orders for hardware, software, connectivity
and consultancy which are not free anymore.

These donations build markets for the rich countries, not the poor;
markets for suppliers of hardware, software, connectivity and
consultancy. Then, as these markets expand, they create a whole new
population of creditcard-bearing Internet-connected consumers in the
Third World who are ready to order more goods from the US or Europe.


Roberto Verzola
Philippines




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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-27 Thread Lessard, George
Here in Nunavut, Canada
we take donated computers and the young folks in our high schools are
shown how to check and recondition them and then they are distributed to
the schools or the Internet Access points in the communities...

George Lessard, Media Specialist
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Moderates the Haa Ai E-mail List  Archive of Teacher / Student Resources
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/haa-ai
Department of Education 
Government of Nunavut
Curriculum  School Services
P.O. Box 390
Arviat, Nunavut, Canada
X0C 0E0
Vox (867) 857-3066
Fax (867) 857-3090
N 61.05'39 W 94.04'15

Please note that the Government  of Nunavut monitors e-mails sent or
received. Further communication will signify your consent to this.




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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-27 Thread Vickram Crishna
At 9:46 PM +0100 25/06/2003, Tony Roberts wrote:

 What we need to do is make an appropriate distinction between dumping
 and providing quality, fully refurbished, Pentium PCs into contexts
 where the appropriate capacity is already in place to make productive
 use of them. This means that secure and adapted premises, experienced
 staff and access to free or affordable technical support is in place.

A couple of posts here also suggesting that one via media is to do a
workaround with the computers sent to small businesses who will then
integrate their usage locally.

Donee schools can also do this, farming out the computers to local
businesses with the proviso that the machines be available to the school
during specified times (school hours, study periods) and be used for
whatever else (cybercafes, printshops, entertainment centers) the rest
of the time.

The problem with this is the fact that the donee schools are often run
by absentee trustees, who do not care often enough to see the big
picture. Whether they are private or public (ie commercial or government
run schools) finally the responsibility for imparting education must be
that of the local administration (teachers and principal).

Also not much point if the donor organisations make (well-meaning, but
well!) demands about end-usage that prevent the computers from being
used at all!
-- 
Vickram



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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-26 Thread Udit Chaudhuri
Besides shipping, I would surmise some basic inspection, reconditioning
and local support costs - possibly extending to support personnel
training and motivation. All this would further jack up the overall cost
per computer.

Perhaps the only way this would work is to:

1Collect computers used and donated in the command area itself, say
executives and offices of international companies and other
organisations who have imported the computers 3-4 years ago and are
upgrading  their systems - incentivising (in token) or acknowledging
their donation;

2Import them in shiploads/ container-loads, so that the associated
costs and overheads can be spread over the large number.

Udit Chaudhuri



Raju Dev Acharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I totally agree with Guido Sohne. In Nepal I can buy a new PIII for
 US$300. Also importing PC for distribution into the country takes a lot
 of time and effort  due to the never ending red tape and can take
 months. This increases the cost of the PC if the cost incurred in the
 host country is added to the total cost of the donor.


  Guido Sohne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I was in a thread elsewhere that discussed this same issue and I also
  thought that shipping used PCs makes perfect sense. The problem is the
  actual cost of the used PCs when other overheads are taken into account.





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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-26 Thread Tony Roberts
The thing is that a lot of useless computers ARE dumped in developing
countries. There are waste disposal companies in the UK and elsewhere
who pay state governments in India and China (for example) to dump
unprocessed electronic waste in their backyard.

And there have also been some well intentioned (but poorly planned and
executed) projects to send old PCs to places without the resources or
skills to make immediate, productive and sustainable use of them. (This
ends up being as negative an outcome as out-and-out dumping).

What we need to do is make an appropriate distinction between dumping
and providing quality, fully refurbished, Pentium PCs into contexts
where the appropriate capacity is already in place to make productive
use of them. This means that secure and adapted premises, experienced
staff and access to free or affordable technical support is in place.

If so PII machines make excellent all round work horses. I am using one
to write this. And PI PCs make excellent desktops on a thin client
network in a school classroom.

If supplied through SchoolNets where the recipient NGO is engaged in
providing the above capacity and working on connectivity and policy
issue the outcomes are truly impressive. See www.schoolnetafrica.net

SchoolNet Africa is a pan-Africa, African-led organisation with
structures in 30 African countries leading the way in applying ICTs to
enhance education.

SchoolNet Africa has just launched an appeal for one million refurbished
computers for African schools.

And if the PCs are supplied through national NGO Federations who are
already engaged in pro-active capacity building work to stengthen their
member organisations including providing computer training and technical
support - again the outcomes are extremely valuable.

We need to differentiate between good practice and bad practice in this
area just as in other fields.

Extending the productive life of PCs has very positive developmental,
educational and environmental outcomes. Dumping PCs does not.

Kind regards

Tony Roberts
Executive Director
Computer Aid International

433 Holloway Road
London, N7 6LJ. UK.
Tel: +44 (0) 20 7281 0091
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: www.computeraid.org 

Registered Charity no. 1069256
Registered Company no. 3442679  

_

This message was sent to you using a quality Pentium PC fully
refurbished by Computer Aid International.
--


Daniel Makundi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ...I have always protested aloud whenever I hear someone mentioning in a
 meeting something to the effect they are turning 3rd world countries
 into obsolete computer dumping ground.
 
 There is nothing like obsolete here: a 486/66 pc with 500 MB HDD and 16
 MB RAM will nicely install Win95 and Office97 and leave you plenty of
 room for your data files.
 
 Doesn't sound like much, but, obtained at $80 (system unit, color
 monitor, keyboard and mouse), a person or school that would otherwise
 never dream of acquiring a computer.
 
 Please keep donating the used PCs and accessories, we out here do
 appreciate them very much.





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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-26 Thread Sandeep Saxena
Simon Woodside wrote:
 What about importing to small businesses instead? instead of donating
 the computers, provide them at cost to small business owners who can
 resell them and provide support services?

Hi All,

We are a small Social Enterprise working mainly for Income generation
using innovative technologies and new ways.

I visited worldcomputerexchange.org website and found they have nicely
put all relevant documents for easy comprehensive understanding of their
procedures. I have my comments as following;

From Awareness and Income generation point of view:

I feel donating 1 to 4 computers (included in a package deal) to any
budding entrepreneur can serve the purpose equally well than only
serving to schools.

All the schools with donated computers will pass on expenditures on the
parents, which is not good. Why put extra burden on already poor parents
in form of computer fees?

One can start a small computer pub in the locality and show others
what a computer can do to their day-to-day life and earn a livelihood
for the family doing typing, designing, databases and internet.

* Sustainability of project comes automatically.
* Infrastructure expenses are reduced to minimum.
* Security of the systems is solved.
* Progress can be easily monitored.
* In friendly neighborhood environment, computer accessibility
opportunities for the kids. Especially the Ladies/ girls (who are
generally deprived of computer handling, due to social reasons) will be
more comfortable to learn, earn and discuss with any friendly lady
entrepreneur.

One would need to follow flexible approach for every different country
and be guided by local people, who understand local problems better.

I am not for writing a essay here...and leave you to decide and explore 
this line of action too.

Timothy Anderson are you ready for this? Let me know for further help.


Sandeep Saxena
SECRETARY
SOCIETY FOR THE UNDERPRIVILEGED (SUN)
India
Site: http://globalers.com




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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-25 Thread Maartje Op de Coul
Does anyone know if there are computer donation programmes that go
beyond one-off donations? What if after a while people using donated
computers need  upgrading and/or replacement? Who takes responsibility
for meeting with the  created (long term) expectations of using
computers?

Maartje Op de Coul





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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-25 Thread S Woodside
What about importing to small businesses instead? instead of donating
the computers, provide them at cost to small business owners who can
resell them and provide support services?

simon

On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 12:29 AM, Raju Dev Acharya wrote:

 I totally agree with Guido Sohne. In Nepal I can buy a new PIII for
 US$300. Also importing PC for distribution into the country takes a lot
 of time and effort  due to the never ending red tape and can take
 months. This increases the cost of the PC if the cost incurred in the
 host country is added to the total cost of the donor.


  Guido Sohne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I was in a thread elsewhere that discussed this same issue and I also
 thought that shipping used PCs makes perfect sense. The problem is the
 actual cost of the used PCs when other overheads are taken into 
 account.

 ..snip...


--
www.simonwoodside.com -- 99% Devil, 1% Angel




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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-24 Thread Raju Dev Acharya
I totally agree with Guido Sohne. In Nepal I can buy a new PIII for
US$300. Also importing PC for distribution into the country takes a lot
of time and effort  due to the never ending red tape and can take
months. This increases the cost of the PC if the cost incurred in the
host country is added to the total cost of the donor.


 Guido Sohne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I was in a thread elsewhere that discussed this same issue and I also
 thought that shipping used PCs makes perfect sense. The problem is the
 actual cost of the used PCs when other overheads are taken into account.

..snip...



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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-24 Thread Timothy Anderson
I write to correct some errors in the discussion related to our current
costs.  www.WorldComputerExchange.org sources and tests donated
computers for partners in developing countries.  Based on the current
amount of computers we ship, the share of costs we must receive per
donated Pentium is US$57.50 ($40 for Power Macs). Our per-computer
costs will decrease as we continue to grow to scale. The e-deal blue
book value of the average working computer that we ship is about US$300
so we report on our website that they are worth that.  We find that
our current average shipping cost to an ocean container port in Africa
is about US$12 per computer - less to South Asia and South America.  Of
our first 21 shipments, only one has had to pay customs - the rest have
been able to get waivers of the duty because of their educational and
charitable goal or with the assistance of their government or of the
UNDP.  There are many other costs for tech support, teacher training,
and content that we and our allies work to help reduce for our partners
in developing countries.

Best wishes,

Timothy Anderson
www.WorldComputerExchange.org



Guido Sohne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I was in a thread elsewhere that discussed this same issue and I also
 thought that shipping used PCs makes perfect sense. The problem is the
 actual cost of the used PCs when other overheads are taken into account.
 Appended is an excerpt from an email I wrote concerning this:-

 
 I've done a little research to put this issue in perspective ... The
 website of the World Computer Exchange claims that:

 WCE has shipped 6,434 computers in 21 shipments worth $1,931,200 to
 connect 784 schools with 306,200 students in the following 15 countries:
 Bangladesh, Benin, Bolivia, Cameroon, Georgia, Guatemala, India, Kenya,
 Lithuania, Malawi, Nepal, Nigeria, South Africa, Tanzania, and Uganda.

 I pulled out a calculator and assessed the above figures.

 It works out to about $300 per PC. 21 shipments implies that there are
 306 PCs per shipment. Seperately, it was mentioned that it costs $20,000
 per container to ship the PCs over which works out to $65 per PC.

 With those figures, it appears that shipping Walmart PCs at a cost of
 $65/PC (assuming it costs the same to ship them as the used PCs) on top
 of the *retail* price of $199 is still below the cost of shipping the
 used PCs.





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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-24 Thread Roland Lubett
I've been following with interest the discussion about sending computers
to the Third World.

The rationale is clear:

* many countries are desperate for computing power, for schools,
training, productivity, but cannot afford the latest hardware and
software

* literally millions of computers are being trashed in rich economies,
that still have years of life in them. As Daniel Makundi has said,
Windows 95 plus Star/OpenOffice can run fine if slowly on anything
faster than a 486 machine.

* So the obsolete hardware of richer countries could, with care and
planning, be well used in the Third World. It may cost more financially,
to recondition and fit-out used computers than to buy new ones (at least
in the US), but it would certainly cost less if environmental and social
costs and benefits were factored in. So you have a potentially valuable
asset available to marginal, disadvantaged groups or economies.

The problem is, with computers as with any donated equipment, that we
well-meaning donors think we are doing such a great thing to send
hardware - any hardware - without looking at local needs, compatibility
issues, and local capacities for maintenance in recipient countries.

If we were to do a good survey (physical or virtual) of the needs and
the capacities country by country, then work on all the exported
machines to make sure that they were compatible with those
needs/capacities, then we might be getting somewhere. Even better,
establish relationships with local groups. The success stories mentioned
in other postings - Swaziland's Computer Education Trust, and the Goa
Computers project - have clearly involved longer-term capacity-building
together with equipment donation: but I know from experience, that for
each of these success stories there might be 10, 50, 100 failures.

And yes, it's not much use sending free computers if local governments
just see computers as something to tax. There is much that local users
can do to change the official climate and lobby for fairer conditions
for computer and Internet users.

This all needs a much more holistic approach to bridging the digital
divide, and some very un-technological, fuzzy skills and capacities in
human relations, organising, and training. Surprise, surprise.


Roland Lubett
Last-First Networks
Armidale, Australia

http://www.lastfirst.net

--- linking practitioners  ï  activists  ï  organisations ---
-- in holistic development --






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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-21 Thread Larry Njungu
To My learned, advanced and updated colleagues on this forum.

It is not my intention to divert the current discussions or even to draw
you back on issues that you may have already probably discussed in the
past.

I still get back to the first issue I earlier raised on procurement of
the so called donated computers, particularly to Africa.

I received a few responses from individuals, who I thank most sincerely
for the bother. Some of these just told me to visit websites like
ComputerAid.org  WorldComputerExchange.org  Indeed I took some time and
spent some money (internet is really expensive in this part of the
world) to explore how our poor training institution can at least acquire
some of these computers, which have become so central to today's modern
life.

My findings are that it may seem so easy and a real donation in the eyes
of our colleagues in the developed world, with healthy economies, that a
donated computer only attracts about 80 British pounds from recipients.
Even then, many of these colleagues are oblivious of the exorbitant
import and other related taxes obtained in such slumped economies. This
means that apart from the 80 pounds, recipients have to pay other costs
in their own countries to finally get the so-called donated computer.

To sincerely bridge the digital divide, as shown by our many endeavors
and commitment, we must start all over again and revisit these issues
especially from the African perspective.

For instance, we can seriously lobby governments to zero rate ICT
equipment and concomitant software because of the key role they play in
life.

Many African countries seem not to appreciate ICTs as evidenced by these
taxes and other man-made inhibiting factors.

Secondly, I know the sourcing of computers and other administrative
aspects involve some costs in the developed countries. But can't this be
part of the full package donation--a culmination of well givers and
volunteers efforts.

In the meantime, can someone please help us acquire free donated
computers, in view of our training institution's position.  It is also
our desire to be part and parcel of the ICT family and contribute
positively to the development of our country.


Lawrence

Zambia




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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-21 Thread John Hibbs
I have been down this used p.c. road to a very great extent. In fact,
I spent several days in the Chicago area with a first class outfit that
supplies good used p.c.'s to the Illinois school system. They come
licensed by Microsoft with a later Windows 2000 o.s. and a monitor for
about $150. FOB Chicago. For some small amounts they will load some
browsers and some free stuff (real audio, Star office.)

All that sounds good until arrival when the units have the usual
problems - plus. Each one is slightly different that the other, so when
there is a problem it is hard to diagnose a solution.

We decided that the only way these could be cheaper than some new
alternatives was if the original shipments went to a technical training
school which already was set up to handle a variety of problems. That
part of their training was to give each computer to a student and have
him or her work on it, make it run, load some software, etc. etc...even
break it down and put it back together again.

So, if on arrival these come into a facility where there are parts,
inventory controls, skilled individuals who will work as part of their
education, then used p.c.'s may well be a good solution. But just
because the starting price is $300. less than new, doesn't mean, in
the end, the $150. unit is cheaper.

(Oh, they would ship you as is computers for about $30. each...we had
long discussions about that and absolutely decided the $120. of value
they added was cheap.

They are real nice guys by the way. You can contact


Willie Cade
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or Frank Goetz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Shucks...I can't get their URL to work.

John Hibbs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.bfranklin.edu




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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-21 Thread Guido Sohne
I was in a thread elsewhere that discussed this same issue and I also
thought that shipping used PCs makes perfect sense. The problem is the
actual cost of the used PCs when other overheads are taken into account.
Appended is an excerpt from an email I wrote concerning this:-


I've done a little research to put this issue in perspective ... The
website of the World Computer Exchange claims that:

WCE has shipped 6,434 computers in 21 shipments worth $1,931,200 to
connect 784 schools with 306,200 students in the following 15 countries:
Bangladesh, Benin, Bolivia, Cameroon, Georgia, Guatemala, India, Kenya,
Lithuania, Malawi, Nepal, Nigeria, South Africa, Tanzania, and Uganda.

I pulled out a calculator and assessed the above figures.

It works out to about $300 per PC. 21 shipments implies that there are
306 PCs per shipment. Seperately, it was mentioned that it costs $20,000
per container to ship the PCs over which works out to $65 per PC.

With those figures, it appears that shipping Walmart PCs at a cost of
$65/PC (assuming it costs the same to ship them as the used PCs) on top
of the *retail* price of $199 is still below the cost of shipping the
used PCs.

--
Guido Sohne[EMAIL PROTECTED]
At Large  http://sohne.net
--
A master was asked the question, What is the Way? by a curious monk.
It is right before your eyes, said the master.

Why do I not see it for myself?  Because you are thinking of
yourself.  What about you: do you see it?

So long as you see double, saying 'I don't', and 'you do', and so on,
your eyes are clouded, said the master.

When there is neither 'I' nor 'You', can one see it?

When there is neither 'I' nor 'You', who is the one that wants to see
it?




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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-19 Thread Theophane Kinda
As a head of NTIC programme in Burkina Faso let me emphasize the fact
that the gap between third world and developed courties is so high that
we cannot make any comparison. I am also convinced that second hand
computers may be of some help in third world. As you know more than 2/3
of the population in Africa are living with less than one dollar per
day. Therefore how can they manage to get a brand new pc.?

Daniel Makundi wrote:

 In support of Mr. Njungu. I have always protested aloud whenever I hear
 someone mentioning in a meeting something to the effect they are
 turning 3rd world countries into obsolete computer dumping ground.

 There is nothing like obsolete here: a 486/66 pc with 500 MB HDD and 16
 MB RAM will nicely install Win95 and Office97 and leave you plenty of
 room for your data files.

 Doesn't sound like much, but, obtained at $80 (system unit, color
 monitor, keyboard and mouse), a person or school that would otherwise
 never dream of acquiring a computer.

 Please keep donating the used PCs and accessories, we out here do
 appreciate them very much.

 D. Makundi
 Dar es Salaam

 Larry Njungu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  ...it is suprising that some of us running training Institutions in the
  third world are not seeing these donated computers coming forth even to
  warrant such fears.
 
  It is therefore my request to my learned, updated and advanced
  colleagues on this forum to avail me addresses or procedures of
  acquiring donated computers from the first world so that we can at least
  get started with computer technology and be in the computer age like
  everybody else in the world.





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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-17 Thread Timothy Anderson
In resonse to Larry Njungu of Zambia, you can visit
www.WorldComputerExchange.org to see how we can source donated
computers in Scandinavia, Germany, and the USA for you to use to connect
youth to the Internet.  We also have online support services to help you
through the first years of getting connected.  In Zambia, Information
Development Fund is one of our 143 partners in 40 countries - they may
be interested in sharing in the work, costs, and computers of a
container shipment.

Best wishes,

Timothy Anderson
World Computer Exchange




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Re: [GKD] RFI: Computer Donations To The Third World

2003-06-17 Thread Daniel Makundi
In support of Mr. Njungu. I have always protested aloud whenever I hear
someone mentioning in a meeting something to the effect they are
turning 3rd world countries into obsolete computer dumping ground.

There is nothing like obsolete here: a 486/66 pc with 500 MB HDD and 16
MB RAM will nicely install Win95 and Office97 and leave you plenty of
room for your data files.

Doesn't sound like much, but, obtained at $80 (system unit, color
monitor, keyboard and mouse), a person or school that would otherwise
never dream of acquiring a computer.

Please keep donating the used PCs and accessories, we out here do
appreciate them very much.

D. Makundi
Dar es Salaam


Larry Njungu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ...it is suprising that some of us running training Institutions in the
 third world are not seeing these donated computers coming forth even to
 warrant such fears.
 
 It is therefore my request to my learned, updated and advanced
 colleagues on this forum to avail me addresses or procedures of
 acquiring donated computers from the first world so that we can at least
 get started with computer technology and be in the computer age like
 everybody else in the world.





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