Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

I think that "time" is a bit like "taxes". Everyone agrees life would be better if it was simpler, but people can not agree on how to do that, so we waste a lot of effort dealing with it. md On 03/10/2021 4:28 PM Ray Cote wrote: > > > No conversation about time is complete

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

No conversation about time is complete without a nod to 'Calendrical Calculations' by Reingold and Dershowitz: https://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/computer-science/computing-general-interest/calendrical-calculations-ultimate-edition-4th-edition?format=HB=9781107057623 I have three

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

Actually in was the Germans in 1916 that implemented it first. Almost every other country adopted it shortly after, and we adopted it in 1918. IMHO: it made sense back then when the world was not universally electrified. It does not make sense in the 21st century. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 2:59 PM Curt Howland wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > On Monday 08 March 2021, Joshua Judson Rosen was heard to say: > > On 3/6/21 9:17 PM, Curt Howland wrote: > > > I mean, how silly can one be to object to it being dark when you > > > wake

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

He needed a calendar watch. All of us Viet Nam veterans had Seiko watches  -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7 PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1 3050 5715 B88D 6F6 B B6E7 On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 9:33 PM wrote: > It was 1974 and the IBM 360

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

It was 1974 and the IBM 360 had an unsigned 64 bit clock that updated (I believe) every ten milliseconds. The operator booted the online transactional system and mistakenly typed in the next day's date. They IMMEDIATELY realized the error, shut the machine down and brought it up again typing

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

128 bits  -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7 PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1 3050 5715 B88D 6F6 B B6E7 On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 6:21 PM Curt Howland wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > On Monday 08 March 2021,

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

Yet you might think that since many, many people pay off mortgages or pay off mortgages on sales of property every single year that they might have it down to a science by now. It is not like I am the first mortgage that has been paid off in the past 30 years.. Maddog, I totally agree with

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

Here's my story about time... I had an old computer I was using as an email server and I just configured the time to sync once a day, which seemed often enough for email. The clock started to go bad, drifting several minutes a day (I don't remember now if it was forward or backward because I'm

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

Bruce, Yes, you are probably right. I know enough how banks bundle up mortgages, to agree that might be part of the problem. Yet you might think that since many, many people pay off mortgages or pay off mortgages on sales of property every single year that they might have it down to a

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

If my experience is a guide, you have a few more months to go. Once we paid off our mortgage it took almost 6 months to clear everything up. (That was in late 2018) What you probably aren't realizing is that they have to hunt down your paperwork. Your note was probably transferred to dozens of

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Monday 08 March 2021, Joshua Judson Rosen was heard to say: > What's the likelihood that this date is going to pass through a > computer where time_t is not wider than 32 bits before then? Hehehehe. Tovalds was asked about the 2038

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

I paid off my 30 year mortgage on November 29th, 2020 (two years early) thinking that it would be better not to carry any of it over to the next year. Then I waited for all of the associated paperwork (escrow payment refunds for property tax, deed, etc.) At the end of January I called the

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

Banks and other financial institutions have long used math packages that made 2035 moot. Loans and risk computations frequently go 50 years or longer. I worked for algorithmics for 10 years. We had a C++ customized package. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org PGP key id:

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On 3/8/21 2:16 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote: > I love this discussion. I've been involved with computer time since the early > 1970s. While at burger King I wrote a standardized set of time utilities in > cobol. Later at Digital I was responsible for the utmp libraries, and the > standard test

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

In 2005 bush extended DST to the current dates, but we had DST for many years before that. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7 PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1 3050 5715 B88D 6F6 B B6E7 On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 2:59 PM Curt Howland wrote: >

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Monday 08 March 2021, Joshua Judson Rosen was heard to say: > On 3/6/21 9:17 PM, Curt Howland wrote: > > I mean, how silly can one be to object to it being dark when you > > wake up, and then demanding that everyone else change the time on > >

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

I think DST has outlived its usefulness. There was a proposal to move MA to the Atlantic Time Zone. There was a more recent proposal for CT to move, but it makes no sense without NH and ME. I think stability is more important. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org PGP key id:

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On 3/6/21 9:17 PM, Curt Howland wrote: > On Saturday 06 March 2021, Ben Scott was heard to say: >> Even that's not enough, because the stupid humans keep changing >> what the time zones mean. > > With GMT as the standard time stamp, one can at least know relative > times of files, even if one

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

I love this discussion. I've been involved with computer time since the early 1970s. While at burger King I wrote a standardized set of time utilities in cobol. Later at Digital I was responsible for the utmp libraries, and the standard test failed. The issue was that the standard test used a

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On 3/8/21 7:28 AM, John Abreau wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 7:48 PM Ben Scott > wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:57 PM Joshua Judson Rosen > mailto:roz...@hackerposse.com>> wrote: > > And as a general word of advice from someone whose been

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On 3/6/21 7:46 PM, Ben Scott wrote: > On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:57 PM Joshua Judson Rosen > wrote: >> And as a general word of advice from someone whose been burnt way too many >> times: >> if you're going to put timestamps in your filenames, either just use UTC >> or explicitly indicate which

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 7:48 PM Ben Scott wrote: > On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:57 PM Joshua Judson Rosen > wrote: > > And as a general word of advice from someone whose been burnt way too > many times: > > if you're going to put timestamps in your filenames, either just use UTC > > or explicitly

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Sunday 07 March 2021, Ben Scott was heard to say: > If we could get all the humans to agree to follow UTC everywhere > and just abolish time zones, things would be better, yah. But we > can't even get the US on the metric system, so I hold

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 9:17 PM Curt Howland wrote: >> Say you find a file that has a stored time of 2007 MAR 31 17:00 UTC. > > With GMT as the standard time stamp, one can at least know relative > times of files, even if one does not know such real-world details. There are a few problems with

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

Especially when you go far enough north and it is never light when you wake up for a decent part of the year. DST is evil. Timezones are evil. UTC is the only way. And turtles.all the way down. md > On 03/06/2021 9:17 PM Curt Howland wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

And of course if it is an old enough date, it may be at one of those magic "timestamps" that never existed. "It is turtles all the way down." > On 03/06/2021 7:46 PM Ben Scott wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:57 PM Joshua Judson Rosen > wrote: > > And as a general word of advice

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Saturday 06 March 2021, Ben Scott was heard to say: > Even that's not enough, because the stupid humans keep changing > what the time zones mean. With GMT as the standard time stamp, one can at least know relative times of files, even if one

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:57 PM Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: > And as a general word of advice from someone whose been burnt way too many > times: > if you're going to put timestamps in your filenames, either just use UTC > or explicitly indicate which timezone the timestamps are assuming. Even

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

It would seem you have learned some of this the hard way. And you are indeed scaring me a bit. Not sure what to do differently, however. What I'm hearing is properly dealing with time is hard and ugly. I've experienced some of this already. I have been warned. But, I still have to get on

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On 3/5/21 2:15 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote: > > On 3/4/21 10:51 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: > > > > See also: "The Problem with Time and Timezones" > > > > > >  > > That was somewhat comical.  Yeah, been trying to keep everything with > respect to

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

That was somewhat comical.  Yeah, been trying to keep everything with respect to UTC.  It can be a little difficult at times, as it's easy to goof up and fall in to quite a few time trap holes. One of the more difficult things has been indexing into the time array.  I've been using numpy's

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

See also: "The Problem with Time and Timezones"  On 3/4/21 10:32 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote: > On 3/4/21 9:56 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: >> On 3/4/21 7:13 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote: >>> Good point.  I'll check that.  Logging machine was set to local

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On 3/4/21 9:56 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: > On 3/4/21 7:13 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote: >> Good point.  I'll check that.  Logging machine was set to local time EST.  >> But it does have a wireless link, maybe it set itself internally to UT.  >> Thanks for the hint. > You have your code explicitly

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

On 3/4/21 7:13 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote: > Good point.  I'll check that.  Logging machine was set to local time EST.  > But it does have a wireless link, maybe it set itself internally to UT.  > Thanks for the hint. You have your code explicitly calling a function named `UTC from timestamp'. If

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

Originally Unix used an epoch time system defined as the number of seconds since January 1 1970. This was stored in a signed 32 bit integer that flips in 2035. On 64 bit Linux systems it has been redefined as 64 bits. Unix systems all use UTC. Linux normally uses UTC as the base, but because of

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

Weird, it is just the 5 hours between UT and EST.  The files are generated on a non-linux embedded machine. If I create a file on my pc, then the TZ information is present and the time is set.  ls reads it correctly. This time stuff can get confusing.  As you were. On 3/4/21 7:13 PM, Bruce

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

The time stamps are UTC. The utilities translate them using the standard time utilities -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7 PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1 3050 5715 B88D 6F6 B B6E7 On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 7:14 PM Bruce Labitt wrote: >

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

Good point. I'll check that. Logging machine was set to local time EST. But it does have a wireless link, maybe it set itself internally to UT. Thanks for the hint. On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 7:05 PM Dana Nowell wrote: > If I'm reading it correctly, it's a 5 hr difference? Local vs gmt? > > > On

Re: Kind of puzzled about timestamps

If I'm reading it correctly, it's a 5 hr difference? Local vs gmt? On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 6:43 PM Bruce Labitt wrote: > This is an odd question. It involves both python and linux. > > Have a bunch of files in a directory that I'd like like to sort by similar > names and in time order. This