Re: [Goanet] Re: Da Vinci Code': Christians catch the fundamentalist
Mario The Hare Krishna lot are a mixed bag. From my observations, there are more white Europeans regularly participating in Oxford Street. London, and elsewher than Indian Hare Krishna participants. To suggest in jest or otherwise that, the country [ Britain] is practically taken over by Indians is indicative of very little knowledge about the place in which I have lived for decades and have kept my ear to the ground. I have no disagreement only with your last paragraph. Cornel - Original Message - From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@goanet.org Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: Da Vinci Code': Christians catch the fundamentalist --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The UK is the most secular country in Europe and we don't get accosted to hear the word of the Lord except by weary looking Jehova Witnesses who sometimes call at homes on sundays. Their naiviety is truly embarrassing. Mario observes: That's quite an exception to your secular rule, Cornel, complete with contentious and subjective adjectives like weary looking and disapproving assertions of naivete and embarrassment :-(( I think the Hare Krishnas are also quite active in the UK as one would expect in a country practically taken over by Indians :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Da Vinci Code': Christians catch the fundamentalist
Aristo Many thanks for an informative reply. I was not aware about the tsunami situation and evangelisation of people at their most vulnerable. The Catholic Church should be ashamed of itself on this count. From very early in my life I had the kind of thoughts you raised about the nonsense of the true faith etc but neither my teachers nor the priests were able to give me an adequate reply except to say you must ask God to help you to believe what we teach. Of course, they were barely educated in the true sense of that word, but merely schooled. Cornel PS At least you had the good luck to be stopped by an attractive lady with an interest in converting you. I am nevertheless puzzled that you couldn't get her phone number on an easy pretext. Better luck next time Viviana permitting!! The UK is the most secular country in Europe and we don't get accosted to hear the word of the Lord except by weary looking Jehova Witnesses who sometimes call at homes on sundays. Their naiviety is truly embarrassing. - Original Message - From: Aristo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: goanet@goanet.org Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:42 AM Subject: [Goanet] Re: Da Vinci Code': Christians catch the fundamentalist Cornel George, I very much agree with the both of you. So I don't have anything interesting to add by contradicting. But I would like to add to why I think Christians are more prone to evangelisation. Right from Catechism, when we are too young to make an informed choice, we are brainwashed into thinking that our Hindu and Muslim friends are destined to hell, and we should pray for their lost souls and help to save their souls. This continues in adulthood when we pray for the pagan brothers sisters during the Let-us-Pray section of the mass, and the thoughts we imbibe during childhood require a certain strength to shrug off. This arrogance that Christianity is the best (and only) religion and everyone should follow it to be saved is almost inbred. Most tend to keep this thought dormant while engaging with non-christian brothers and sisters, a few reject it, and a few enlightened and pro-active ones become evangelists. Now what I find the most repulsive form of evangilisation is that practiced my a FEW missionaries. They follow the policy of 'Food in the left hand, and a Bible in the right', either both or nothing. This was confirmed during the various stories* that came out during the voluntary efforts of many groups post the Tsunami in south India. Helpless people had no choice but to convert. Jesus taught of an UNCONDITIONAL love. Yet these misguided missionaries believe they are doing the work of Jesus. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Re: Da Vinci Code': Christians catch the fundamentalist
Cornel George, I very much agree with the both of you. So I don't have anything interesting to add by contradicting. But I would like to add to why I think Christians are more prone to evangelisation. Right from Catechism, when we are too young to make an informed choice, we are brainwashed into thinking that our Hindu and Muslim friends are destined to hell, and we should pray for their lost souls and help to save their souls. This continues in adulthood when we pray for the pagan brothers sisters during the Let-us-Pray section of the mass, and the thoughts we imbibe during childhood require a certain strength to shrug off. This arrogance that Christianity is the best (and only) religion and everyone should follow it to be saved is almost inbred. Most tend to keep this thought dormant while engaging with non-christian brothers and sisters, a few reject it, and a few enlightened and pro-active ones become evangelists. Now what I find the most repulsive form of evangilisation is that practiced my a FEW missionaries. They follow the policy of 'Food in the left hand, and a Bible in the right', either both or nothing. This was confirmed during the various stories* that came out during the voluntary efforts of many groups post the Tsunami in south India. Helpless people had no choice but to convert. Jesus taught of an UNCONDITIONAL love. Yet these misguided missionaries believe they are doing the work of Jesus. To add fuel to the fire, Pope John Paul II said prior to the millenium: just as in the first millennium the cross was planted on the soil of Europe, and in the second on that of the Americas and Africa, we can pray that in the third Christian millennium, a great harvest of faith will be reaped in this vast and vital continent of Asia. (Reference links* to this and events that followed this time are found under my sign off) Defenders argue that Evagelisation is not the same as forced/alluring conversions, and is merely a freedom to express ones thoughts about religion. While this is legally true, I still find it utterly distasteful. Now the current Pope Benedict XVI recently commented that India should not oppose conversion as every one has the fundamental right to choose his religion. Im afraid, I have to agree with him on this. But at the same time, I hate it when an attractive woman stops me in the middle of the street, and asks me for a minute of my time, and tries to convince me on how to make Jesus my best friend (on the basis of my goatie which often gives the impression that I am Muslim). Id rather she ask me for my number. Why cannot she respect that I could be a Muslim and leave me alone? Which is what brings me to the question I posed: Although we have no Legal right to oppose fundamentalism, do we have the moral right? Can we think of a way to legally suppress fundamentalism of all religions, including evangelisation. Or perhaps, as George suggests, there should be a moratorium set up in good faith. Aristo. *References to Tsunami Conversions/Pope John Pauls Comments on Evangelisation of Asia: http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jan/24shoba.htm http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/globalpers/gp080304.htm http://in.rediff.com/news/1999/nov/06iype.htm http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_32_116/ai_57893313/print - Original Message - From: cornel George Thanks for your response on current evangelising activity. I happen to think it is entirely wrong in any religion. However, people should be free to join any religion voluntarily if they choose to. I would dearly like to hear an alternative to the view we two seem to share on this issue. Among others, would it be possible to get Cardinal Ivan Dias to provide us his informed view on Catholic evangelization for our benefit? Further, would our hard working Goanet moderators try to get Cardinal Ivan on line even if only for once on this issue? Cornel _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Da Vinci Code': Christians catch the fundamentalist
George Thanks for your response on current evangelising activity. I happen to think it is entirely wrong in any religion. However, people should be free to join any religion voluntarily if they choose to. I would dearly like to hear an alternative to the view we two seem to share on this issue. Among others, would it be possible to get Cardinal Ivan Dias to provide us his informed view on Catholic evangelization for our benefit? Further, would our hard working Goanet moderators try to get Cardinal Ivan on line even if only for once on this issue? Cornel - Original Message - From: George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@goanet.org Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 5:46 AM Subject: [Goanet] Re: Da Vinci Code': Christians catch the fundamentalist --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aristo Changing the subject a little, perhaps you can throw some light on Christian evangelism in India today to which I am totally opposed. Why on earth should any religious group try to evangelise any other group anywhere, even though it is rampant in the USA as a means towards substantial money-making for some. Hi Cornel I agree with you. There should be an indefinite moratorium on all evangelizing activity, by all religions. Evangelization across the world has brought about negative, adverse activity. It has led to the religious fundamentalism we see in all major religions today. Better for people to worry about their own souls, than worry about others. Cardinal Ivan Dias is being transferred to the Vatican to head Catholic evangelization. Much better to stay back in Bombay and work on issues of poverty and social justice there. Regards, George _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Re: Da Vinci Code': Christians catch the fundamentalist
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aristo Changing the subject a little, perhaps you can throw some light on Christian evangelism in India today to which I am totally opposed. Why on earth should any religious group try to evangelise any other group anywhere, even though it is rampant in the USA as a means towards substantial money-making for some. Hi Cornel I agree with you. There should be an indefinite moratorium on all evangelizing activity, by all religions. Evangelization across the world has brought about negative, adverse activity. It has led to the religious fundamentalism we see in all major religions today. Better for people to worry about their own souls, than worry about others. Cardinal Ivan Dias is being transferred to the Vatican to head Catholic evangelization. Much better to stay back in Bombay and work on issues of poverty and social justice there. Regards, George _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Re: 'Da Vinci Code': Christians catch the fundamentalist
Aristo Changing the subject a little, perhaps you can throw some light on Christian evangelism in India today to which I am totally opposed. Why on earth should any religious group try to evangelise any other group anywhere, even though it is rampant in the USA as a means towards substantial money-making for some. In Margao very recently, in the Municipal Gardens, I accidentally came across evangelism at full steam on Easter Day. The chief speaker said to me in all sincerity that, it was important that people who had not heard the word of the Lord (i.e. Christ) should be given the opportunity to do so. Indeed, the evangelism I witnessed first hand, and to my surprise, after substantial resistance from some Hindu groups in India, was pretty 'forceful' to a group of about 30 persons, mainly Hindu and Muslim. The lead evangelist with whom I had a good chance to discuss the matter at the end of the session, was utterly convinced about the importance of the task he was undertaking with a small group of helpers doing the preaching, and religious singing with guitars, drums, electric organ etc. Cornel - Original Message - From: Aristo It looks like the author was only recently Enlightened that Fundamentalism applies to Christians also. Too bad he didn't even bother to Wiki Fundamentalism (at the very least) to find out that it originated with Christianity, in various forms right from subtle evangelisation (that continues till today) to brutal historical inquisitions. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
