Re: [Groff] mom: Some follow-up questions

2005-03-11 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Btw, I think I read somewhere that groff never ever hyphenates > the last word on a page. Is that true? I guess that makes the > guys over at comp.text.tex envious. There are quite a few > threads about how to make TeX & Children succeed with that...! Don't draw premature conclusions from this

Re: [Groff] developers only?

2005-03-29 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> I'm printing the lyrics of a CD; I want it in 2-col; so I did > > .2c > .nf > > I wanted groff to *not* join short lines but break long lines; > Short lines were not joined, ok! > But groff did not break the long lines :-)) > - Long lines in the first column invaded the second colu

Re: [Groff] developers only?

2005-03-30 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> hmm.. yes, adding a macro to each line is really annoying.. > but the output, the indent in particular, is exactly what I expected! After tinkering around a bit, I seem to have come up with a compact version using input line count traps. You might wish to add something like ".sp .5" or so in t

Re: [Groff] developers only?

2005-03-30 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Here it is, independent of the macro package. > > Werner > > == > .\" break -- no join > .de BNJ > . nr BNJ-dobreak 1 > . it 1 BNJ-break > .. > . > .de /BNJ > . nr BNJ-dobreak 0 > .. > . > .de BNJ-break > . if \\n[BNJ

Re: [Groff] Horizontal rule w/ length a fraction of the page width?

2005-07-14 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > \l'\n(.l/1.25' > > This doesn't work correctly. In Solaris troff it does, because that troff uses only 10 units per point (100 units per em for a 10-point font), so it doesn't encounter an arithmetic overflow when evaluating [line length in units]*[units per em] as groff does with 1000 uni

Re: [Groff] LL Usage in an-old.tmac Incompatible with man Program on GNU/Linux

2005-08-18 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> ... but classical troff doesn't have -r, so it should be > ignored. Well, that's not quite true. Classical troff did have "-r", but the syntax was different: -raN The number register whose (one-character) name is a is set to N. (from the NROFF/TROFF User's Manual, 1976) _

Re: [Groff] VERBON and COVER problems

2005-09-21 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> input line 6:check TL, AU, AS, AE, MT sequence It appears that your Solaris installation uses the original "mm" macros (not the groff ones) and therefore doesn't understand "COVER" and "VERBON". Perhaps it might work if you used groff -T ascii -mgm file.mm ___

Re: [Groff] moving TOC to start

2005-09-27 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> does anyone have any simple methods for placing the table of contents > at the start of the output file ? > > I have done it manually with Postscript output and should be able to > script that, but if anyone has other suggestions I would appreciate > hearing from them. I think manipulating the

Re: [Groff] moving TOC to start

2005-09-28 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
To be honest, my method has been pretty much obsoleted by groff's "write" requests. It had been based on the fact that troff had had no capability for writing larger blocks of text (i.e., multi-line chunks) to external files. Here is a toy model of a much better approach. Just roff the file twi

Re: [Groff] moving TOC to start

2005-09-29 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> since a diversion isn't paginated until it is flushed out, > how would we capture TOC entries, with proper page number > references, while collecting the main body diversion? Simple: you create a temporary page diversion for collecting text. When that is full, you increment your own page cou

Re: [Groff] moving TOC to start

2005-09-29 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> >> since a diversion isn't paginated until it is flushed out, > >> how would we capture TOC entries, with proper page number > >> references, while collecting the main body diversion? > > > > Simple: you create a temporary page diversion for collecting > > text. When that is full, you increm

Re: [Groff] moving TOC to start

2005-09-29 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Can a diversion be spit out and fed to another one? Yes, that's no problem. The only thing to keep in mind when "replaying" one diversion into another is to do this (normally) in no-fill mode, so as not to re-format already-formatted material. If you want to save material unformatted for form

Re: [Groff] moving TOC to start

2005-09-29 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > > The problem with groff's `write' requests is that they > > > don't work, if the user fails to specify the `-U' flag, > > > when invoking groff. > > > > > > This flag activates the so called `unsafe' mode. While it > > > probably isn't the case, this carries the connotation that > > > it ma

Re: [Groff] moving TOC to start

2005-09-29 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
[Replying to his message, I had mailed Jon directly instead of the groff list. With his permission, I'm posting his reply here.] > > > I do exactly what Werner is suggesting for my TOC, and it > > > works out very well. My chapter and section macros write out > > > title and page information to

Re: [Groff] moving TOC to start

2005-09-30 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> BTW, I *never* have *any* user writeable directory before the > system binary directories, in *my* PATH; but, I guess it would > be naive to expect everybody to follow that piece of simple > security advice. Obviously you're doing the Right Thing in this regard, but I find it sometimes conveni

Re: [Groff] moving TOC to start

2005-10-05 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > Here is a toy model of a much better approach. [...] > > > > (Note also that the technique is not really new -- LaTeX > > has been using an analogous approach for a *long* time.) > > Indeed. It would be great if you can volunteer to > add something like this to the ms macros. Here is a si

Re: [Groff] Drawing filled circle segments

2005-10-28 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
Lots of fun with pie charts. Just for the heck of it, here's a modified version of Ted's pie-chart mechanism that "remembers" the angles of the wedges and allows you to give the wedge size as a percentage of the whole "pie" (plus, it allows you to use "groff" colors; the \N'32' (which should be a

Re: [Groff] Drawing filled circle segments

2005-10-28 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
This one works without string arguments: .sp 3c .de YY ps: def /wedge { gsave currentpoint translate 1 -1 scale newpath 0 0 moveto 0 0 5 2 roll 3.6 mul exch 3.6 mul dup 3 1 roll add arc closepath gsave fill grestore 0 setgray stroke grestore } def .. \Y[YY]\c .de wedge \m[\\$2]\Z'\N'32''

Re: [Groff] "creep" and booklets

2005-11-04 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > Excellent idea! And thanks for the snappy response. This would > > take the problem out of groff which would be a good thing for > > this application (especially since the amount of creep required > > =depends on the thickness of paper you are printing to, and I'm > > much happier not to have

Re: [Groff] Typesetting arbitrary fractions?

2005-11-08 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> However, this would not necessarily transfer to other fonts, > since the \(f/ in standard PostScript occurs only in the > Symbol font and so there is only one version of it. None the > less, I have made the comparison in some standard Adobe font > families (Times, Bookman, Palatino, Helvetica) a

Re: [Groff] Groff Wiki

2005-11-09 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> If anyone wants to reprint an email of mine to the wiki, > that's fine with me. Same here. I guess that's the whole point of this list. > And it's only fitting that the wiki itself is written in awk. Indeed. There used to be a *roff-(subset)-workalike called awf, the "Amazingly Workable Fo

Re: [Groff] Macro arguments question

2005-11-14 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > But this is a consequence of wrapping it in \{...\}, so if > > you just remove the quotes from your argument it comes out > > right. No, this interpretation appears to be incorrect. The \{...\} is at best ineffective here. You can see this if you define the macro as follows: .de temp # arg

Re: [Groff] Macro arguments question

2005-11-14 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
Just wanted to clarify a few things about environments. The idea of environments is to define several different "parameter sets" for formatting, with the purpose of being able to easily switch between them (e.g., one environment for the normal body text, one for footnotes, etc.), and to be able t

Re: [Groff] Macro arguments question

2005-11-14 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
Ah, and I forgot to emphasize that one of the most important aspects of environments is that the current "partially collected line" is part of the environment. Using environments, you can collect and format several different "threads" in parallel. __

Re: [Groff] extending a macro (prepending commands)

2005-11-24 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> there must be an obvious answer to this question but I've looked and > not seen an answer (yet). What is the best way to prepend commands to > an existing macro. For example, say, in -ms how can one easily define > a new `.LP' do some work and then call the original old `.LP' safely.. > > Here i

Re: [Groff] Question re: Appending to a diversion

2005-12-20 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> . If-else clauses look like this: > >.ie ... \{\ >... >.\} >.el \{\ >.\} > > Note the trailing backslashes! I think this was the reason of > not getting more than a single footnote. No, the reason for not getting more than one footnote was an

Re: [Groff] Re: How to make EPS?

2006-01-18 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> 1) If small page size is set with -P-p2i,2i command-line > switch for groff, pdf file produced by gs from > the resulting eps file is not 2in x 2in, but full > letter-size page (see foo_small.eps, foo_small.pdf, > full_small.txt in the attached archive). It usually *does* work

Re: [Groff] Floating point arithmetic in groff

2006-01-31 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Is anyone aware of a means by which floating point arithmetic > and formating can be computed either within groff or in a > preprocessor (ala eqn, tbl, etc.)? Don't know whether this qualifies as "within groff", but you can always call any of the various system utilities (and it has the advanta

Re: [Groff] Help: male and female symbols?

2006-03-07 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Does any of the fonts in the standard distributions of groff > contain characters depicting the standard male and female > symbols? (The circle with the oblique arrow above, and the > circle with the cross below.) > Inquiring minds would like to know. As far as I know, there aren't any in the

Re: [Groff] Embedding encapsulated PostScript page

2006-03-08 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> 1. Resolution [scanning in integer multiples of 72 dpi] > Is this assumption right? No. The basic axiom is that the *final* image to be printed is at about device resolution -- let's make it a factor of two better, just to be on the safe side. So, if your printer's resolution is r, the final

Re: [Groff] More arguments, please :-)

2006-03-10 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
How about this: .de mysp .nr myspcnr (v;\\$1) .. .de myspcmac .sp \\n[myspcnr]u .. .blm myspcmac and then just say .mysp .4 if you want small spacing, or .mysp 1 if you want larger spacing, etc. ___ Groff mailing list Groff@gn

Re: [Groff] Manuals in pdf format

2006-03-10 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Now the beauty of the thing is, that when you rotate a body, > you rotate the normal vectors as well. When you translate > or scale, you translate and scale the vertices, but not > the normals. Now these "Whew!" guys transform the normals, > always. If you scale the body anisotropically, you

Re: [Groff] gtroff & soelim don't recognize ~ in paths

2006-04-11 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > E.g. integer arithmetic etc is a relic from an age long > > gone, it would be so nice to say good bye to it. > > Hmm. Nelson Beebe would raise a lot of objections. He > regularly tests floating point packages and implementations > whether they follow the IEEE standards, and there are still

Re: [Groff] gtroff & soelim don't recognize ~ in paths

2006-04-11 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Perl has no integer arithmetic at all. I may sound scary > 'cause it is much more oriented to computations than groff, > but it works admirably. And nobody is up in arms that real > numbers are in native machine format. And let's not forget that other prodigious programming language, employed

Re: [Groff] Hey, our headman is in the news!

2006-05-09 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Shrinkable horizontal space can probably be done without a complete > redesign of groff, but vertical shrinkable space is impossible IMHO. Vertical shrinkable (or rather, stretchable) space can be done easily with macros and a diversion. (I assume the purpose of this is for alignment of the bo

Re: [Groff] Hey, our headman is in the news!

2006-05-10 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > > Shrinkable horizontal space can probably be done without a > > > complete redesign of groff, but vertical shrinkable space > > > is impossible IMHO. > > > > Vertical shrinkable (or rather, stretchable) space can be > > done easily with macros and a diversion. > > Well, yes, but using divers

Re: [Groff] Hey, our headman is in the news!

2006-05-16 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > > > Vertical shrinkable (or rather, stretchable) space can > > > > be done easily with macros and a diversion. > > > > > > Well, yes, but using diversion has a lot of side > > > effects... > > > > What do you mean by "side effects"? > > Mainly that data put into a diversion can't be complet

Re: [Groff] Inline evaluation of calculations?

2006-05-16 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> You could of course define a macro/parametrised string on the > lines of > > .de eval > .nr Neval \\$* > \\n[Neval] > .. > > The value of \en%+1 is > .eval \n%+1 > (correct since this is page 1). > > which produces the output > > The value of \n%+1 is 2 (correct since this is page 1). Unfortu

Re: [Groff] Hey, our headman is in the news!

2006-05-16 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > I believe TeX uses a similar concept (i.e., storing > > ready-formatted text), only they call it "boxes", not > > "diversions", and TeX has an optimizer to decide where to > > pagebreak, not just a simple vertical-position trap. > > Well, in TeX I can always `\unhbox' or `\unvbox' a box > to

Re: [Groff] removing environments

2006-05-24 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> . nr env-count 0 1 > . > . de CI > .ev e-\\n+[env-count] > .nop \&\\$* > .nr have-int \\n[.int] > .ev > .fam C > .ie \\n[have-int] \{\ > . I \&\\$* > . fam > .\} > .el \ > . I \&\\$*\F[] > .. This seems to screw up for very long arguments. I gues

Re: [Groff] removing environments

2006-05-24 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Excellent! This is *very* nice. Ah, well, long time ago I had the same problem with the large spaces after text set in Courier, and that's how I solved it. (I use font positions instead of families, but the behavior is essentially the same.) One feature the macro doesn't implement is that in

Re: [Groff] Re: Manuals in pdf format

2006-06-02 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Attached is a reduced version of groff.texinfo, > together with a PDF version of it. Incidentally, looking at the PDF file, I wonder what could possibly be the purpose of using "italic" dots as leaders in the table of contents? ___ Groff mailing l

Re: [Groff] tables in a macro

2006-06-12 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
The following works: .\" tbl .eo .de ATABLE .. .TS allbox tab(;); cl. \$1;\$2 .TE ... .ec .ATABLE A table .ATABLE Another table .ATABLE And "another one" ___ Groff mailing list Groff@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/groff

Re: [Groff] tables in a macro

2006-06-13 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> this is interesting. At the moment I am in the need of exactly > the same thing. So this comes in handy. However I want to have > a variable parameter list. At maximum I can have up to 10 > parameters. Each parameter opens a new row. If the Parameter > is empty the do not open a new row. > The

Re: [Groff] tables in a macro

2006-06-14 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
[snip] That was supposed to have been "... simply isn't there in _the_ macro that we use ..." (I shouldn't try to explain things in a hurry.) Anyhow, here's a little example to illustrate further the behavior of tbl/troff: .\" tbl .de HR .br \v'-.25m'\D'l \\n(.lu 0' .. .sp 3c .ll 7.5c .HR .ce

Re: [Groff] tables in a macro

2006-06-16 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> I want to have a variable parameter list. At maximum I can > have up to 10 parameters. Each parameter opens a new row. > If the parameter is empty then do not open a new row. If you can restrict yourself to a simple, particular layout and don't need the full flexibility of a general table form

Re: [Groff] Treatment of annotation paragraphs in refer

2006-06-20 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> I'm using refer to print out an annotated bibliography, and > would like for the annotation paragraph to contain troff > commands for paragraph breaks, and maybe even pic diagrams or > code fragments. However, refer turns the annotation text into > one long string defined using the .ds command

Re: [Groff] Rules drawn with \D are rounded

2006-07-17 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Well, it is justifiable, but it isn't documented correctly. The only justification I can think of is that this way it is not apparent when a closed curve isn't closed properly (in the Postscript sense). This shouldn't happen in a Postscript-aware application, however. > What exactly do you wa

Re: [Groff] Tables in .ig/.. blocks not ignored

2006-07-27 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
It works if you use ".ig xx" paired with ".xx" (substitute some reasonable name for xx if you like; make sure its defined as a no-op). Explanation: this is like nested definitions, .de xx .de yy hello \\.. .. where you have to "hide" the inner terminating "..", so that when defining x

Re: [Groff] PostScript in groff

2006-07-27 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Unfortunately this one looks for `%!' and does not copy lines starting > with these two characters. > Since you can not exclude the possibility of such a combination, > ascii85 encoded files are out. You can turn this off. See the description of "broken" in the manpage of grops.

Re: [Groff] Rules drawn with \D are rounded

2006-07-27 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > > Well, it is justifiable, but it isn't documented correctly. > > > > The only justification I can think of is that this way it is > > not apparent when a closed curve isn't closed properly (in the > > Postscript sense). This shouldn't happen in a Postscript-aware > > application, however. >

Re: [Groff] Rules drawn with \D are rounded

2006-08-07 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Please convert the information in your email into a patch for > grops.man, together with the example. Done (more or less). I've also taken the liberty to restructure the grops manpage somewhat, i.e., begin the "Usage" section with the discussion of the general workings of grops instead of how

Re: [Groff] explicit hyphen and numbers

2006-08-10 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> If anyone can think of a context where a hyphen break between > two numbers is OK, I'd be very interested to hear of it! > And, if the exceptions are so special, then I'm sure that > Werner's workround of "\:" should be acceptable, since people > are not going to need it all that often. > Meanwh

Re: [Groff] explicit hyphen and numbers

2006-08-10 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> BTW, in German, AFAIK, you should use `-', not \[en]. Are you sure about this? I just checked a few examples (real books, so I assume these were created by professional typesetters) both old (letterpress stuff, yay!) and new, and they all use the en dash (or, in an old book, something longer,

Re: [Groff] soelim and file names defined in string registers

2006-08-18 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> I have sometimes (slightly mad idea ... ) considered (at > least experimentally) re-writing relevant macros such as > ".PS/.PE", ".TS/.TE", ".EQ/.EN" so that they automatically > write out what occurs between the start and end to a file, > run the appropriate "preprocessor" program on the file,

Re: [Groff] soelim and file names defined in string registers

2006-08-22 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > (it just would be nice if the `.so' request _could_ > > interpolate the string register value) > > Indeed, but I don't see how to do that properly. It *does* interpolate the string register value, but only at *troff* runtime. (Well, actually it's not the ".so" request that does the interpol

Re: [Groff] Line-drawing escape

2006-11-28 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Is this a bug or a well-considered feature? Apparently groff treats a space differently from "real" characters (like in TeX, where a space in the input represents glue in the output, not a printable character). > Is there a way to save this structure? Yes. Do a ".tr ~" before, and then use ~

Re: [Groff] Line-drawing escape

2006-11-29 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Not really. With -Tascii you get > > warning: can't find numbered character 32 It seems the reason this worked for me is that I had edited the font description files to include the space as well. Are there any situations where this could produce undesirable results? > It's a bug in grops

Re: [Groff] Correct protocol for making changes

2007-02-02 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > (b) it works with old troff also (which has a limit > > of 9 macro arguments) > > > Actually the limit was 6 macro arguments for man macros > in the 1980s. Old troff had a general limit of 9 macro arguments. The limit of 6 arguments you're referring to came about because the particul

Re: [Groff] chess font?

2007-02-04 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > I suspect the .SCRIPT-INPUT-BEGIN .SCRIPT-INPUT-END could > > be implemented as macros which map onto a similar escape > > technique as the suppression escapes \O etc. In any event > > the obvious advantage to this approach is that one can > > harness the ability of a scripting language to m

Re: [Groff] eqn's `...' operator

2007-02-05 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> you've replaced `cdot' with \(md in eqn -- why not replacing > `...' with three \(md characters too? Don't! I want to have the "normal" ellipsis on the baseline. (Like in 1, 2, ...; for special cases it's preferable to have a separate "cdots" operator with three \(md characters.)

Re: [Groff] Coloured equations?

2007-02-05 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> I'd like to have all eqn terms appear in a single colour. > gfont chooses the eqn font, but there appears no easy way > to have all eqn terms appear in a specific colour. Any > suggestions? Well, it's kinda possible (see attached PDF), but it involves some terrible hackery. I guess it would b

Re: [Groff] Giving .UE and .ME an argument

2007-02-05 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> There was no response from the list. I don't want this change > to hang forever waiting for one if nobody cares about the > issue. I prefer the version with the punctuation on the ending macro only.

Re: [Groff] Coloured equations?

2007-02-06 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Actually, your suggestion is very nice IMHO. It's dependent on too many assumptions. And the colors are assigned only on basis of the font used, not on the semantics of the formula. [Not that we would really need this all of a sudden. In most of history, mathematicians have been able to make

Re: [Groff] tbl problems in man

2007-02-08 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
I'm not familiar with DocBook, but doesn't it have something analogous to HTML's "definition list"? It occurs to me that some of the "tables" you're discussing might be better served with such a definition list (as is actually currently the case). Not every two-column table is a definition list,

Re: Footer trap in a A4 PDF

2023-08-25 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> I would expect the word "footer" to pop up at -2c from the page bottom, > then a page break. Footer does pop up, and there's the page break too, > however it does not show up at -2c from the bottom. It's lower. It is working as intended. When you say ".sp |0c" in troff, that does not mean tha

Re: Footer trap in a A4 PDF

2023-08-25 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> How should I proceed to achieve precise margin sizes? There's two things to consider here. One: the trap is sprung when a line is output that reaches OR SWEEPS PAST the trap position. If you set your trap at -2 cm, then an output line may nevertheless still intrude into the bottom margin of 2

Re: Footer trap in a A4 PDF

2023-08-25 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> A slight change and you can colour the margins with pure troff > so it works for both postscript and pdf:- Very good! Your example also demonstrates how setting the vertical spacing to zero allows directly positioning the baseline (which is the reference position for "\D" drawing commands) wi

Re: Leaders

2023-09-04 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Rare? Maybe. But not so rare that a macro package need not > be prepared for it. I think leaders are meant to be used in conjunction with diversions. When they are used in already formatted text, all required dimensions are known, allowing n/troff to compute the number of leader character re

Re: Leaders

2023-09-06 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> The example was enormously helpful. There's light at the end > of my TOC multi-line entry tunnel. Happy to be of help! Note that the example was simplified to illustrate the principle, and would need some (minor) aesthetic tweaks for practical application. Most importantly, you will want the

Re: inconsistent behavior of eqn bar operator

2023-10-24 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> If you put a bar over a string of As, the length of the bar increases > by the same amount for every A you add, but that amount is not the > length of a bar over a lone A. > This nonuniformity is unfortunate. This appears to be by design. The manual page says: accent_widthWhen bar or

Re: Regarding groff, soelim, and macros

2023-11-14 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Can we create documents that have chapters, sections, > that are in separate files? How can we do this? Use the method you already described that works: source the files directly from the main document, not from within a macro. > Now if I run this main file using > (cat main.tr | groff -p -

Re: gpic and 8-bit characters (was: Proposed GNU troff behavior change: require end-of-input macros to exit)

2024-01-02 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > So because both being above ASCII (8 bit area), > ASCII is not an 8-bit code. It is a 7-bit code, [...] Latin-1 is a superset of ASCII, with ASCII occupying the lower half, so technically I would argue that the above statement "being above ASCII" (namely, being in the area where the eighth

Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

2024-01-08 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> AT&T troff was engineered around the assumption that the > lowercase Greek letters typically used for mathematical and > scientific typesetting are slanted/italic rather than upright. > This assumption is baked into the semantics of special > character names *a, *b, *g, and so forth. > [...] >

Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

2024-01-09 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
[Redirected to the list, since I believe it is of general interest.] > > Which character (slanted or upright) groff uses simply depends > > on the mounting order of the fonts S and SS. > > > > [...] > I never knew this. Where is the reference please? > I would like to mention this in my new

Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

2024-01-10 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Note that there is no SS for 'devpdf'. So, from where does > -Tpdf find (or construct) the slanted versions of the Greek > letters if the standard symbol font has upright Greek letters? > Or are the two 'S' fonts different for -Tpdf and -Tps? In the current groff release, the slanted Greek cha

Re: the 'SS' (slanted symbol) font (was: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff)

2024-01-10 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> The ordering of the S and SS fonts is immaterial here because > the C/A/T _had_ no SS font. > Nor do I see any of evidence of an "SS" font for _any_ device > in Documenter's Workbench 3.3 troff. > Barring evidence of pre-groff usage, then, I submit that the > slanted symbol font must be a groff

Re: the 'SS' (slanted symbol) font (was: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff)

2024-01-11 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> For people producing greek documents who wish to use eqn, > I did some testing, using the Tinos family of fonts (R, I, > B, BI) which include greek glyphs and SS font for gropdf. > The attached pdf shows the results with the different > fonts colour coded. Nice! How did you do the color coding

Re: Proposed: make \X read its argument in copy mode

2024-01-17 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > \fB\s(12\m[red]\X'ps: big bold red text in my device command'\fP > \X'ps: exec 1.0 0 0 setrgbcolor /Times-Bold findfont \n[.s] scalefont setfont > (Text) show' This assumes you know both the desired font and the desired color, which might be defined at other places in the document and not u

Re: Accent mystery

2024-02-20 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Processed with > pdfmom -Kutf8 -k timeline.mom > timeline.pdf > the é is garbage. If I swap the order of the options: pdfmom -k -Kutf8 timeline.mom >timeline.pdf or leave out the "-k" entirely (since it is implied by "-K"): pdfmom -Kutf8 timeline.mom >timeline.pdf it works on my mac

Re: Accent mystery

2024-02-20 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> However, pdfmom is supposed to accept all the same > options as groff. Here, it does not, since "-Kutf8 -k" is > acceptable to groff. > > groff -Tpdf -Kutf8 -k -mom timeline.mom > timeline.pdf > > works but > > pdfmom -Kutf8 -k timeline.mom > timeline.pdf > > fails. In the perl script

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-27 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> (I use a bitmap font because it's substantially more readable > for long periods of time than any TrueType font I've found at > equivalent sizes, but using a bitmap font disables some of > xterm's font family support.) The xterm source can be hacked to provide italics using the classic bitmap f

Re: *roff hyphenation trivia challenge

2024-03-29 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Predict the output of the following *roff input. > [...] I guessed wrong. And Heirloom nroff behaves differently from groff. Some more unexpected behavior can be seen by shortening the line length to just 1 en. I also tried the same thing in TeX and learned that by default TeX doesn't hyphe

Re: *roff hyphenation trivia challenge

2024-04-02 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > Also interesting to see that in this word, the hyphenation > > patterns don't suggest a hyphenation opportunity after "anti". > The leading `\%` prevents that. Sorry, I meant even without "\%". With a line length of 1 en, and without any "\%" at all, groff prints an- tidis- es- t

Re: *roff hyphenation trivia challenge

2024-04-02 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> I prefer groff's behaviour because I don't ever want correct > hyphenation points to be ignored. Using \% is almost always a > correction to the hyphenation logic. Groff's current behavior is weirdly inconsistent. It already *does* ignore correct hyphenation points, namely before the first "\%

Re: *roff hyphenation trivia challenge

2024-04-02 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Groff already *does* ignore correct hyphenation points, > namely before the first "\%" (but allows them afterward). > > My concern is that if "\%" only allows specifying > *additional* hyphenation points, then we have no method > of forbidding hyphenation points that the patterns > incorrectly

Re: *roff hyphenation trivia challenge

2024-04-02 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> $ printf '.ll 8n\n\\%%antidisestablishmen\\%%tarianism\\%%\n' \ > | nroff -Wbreak | cat -s > antidisestablishmen- > tarianism- > > I don't think we can tolerate that trailing hyphen. Yes, that's why we have to use "\&\%" at the end.

Re: *roff hyphenation trivia challenge

2024-04-02 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Which would be better? > > 1. Change GNU troff to not write out a hyphen if the > hyphenation control escape sequence is at the end > of the word. > > 2. Change GNU troff to not reënable automatic > hyphenation after encountering a non-initial > hyphenation control escape se

Re: Draft v2: London and Reiser's UNIX/32V paper, reconstructed

2024-06-14 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> More precisely, you get the Death Star, not the Wehrmacht helmet. > The latter is what appears in 32vscan.pdf. > > Be nice to include that. Wikipedia has an SVG of the logo, but it's a bit asymmetric. Instead of trying to fix it I decided to draw a new one, based on a bitmap image I found on

Re: On the term "justification"

2024-06-28 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> [2] Maybe introducing a replacement term, "rotated"--which is > unused in the GNU pic manual except to define "aligned"--would > be a good idea [...] I don't think this is a good idea. "aligned" in pic means the direction of the text is aligned with the direction of the object: .PS arro

Re: vertical spacing trivia challenge

2024-07-14 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
[Spoilers ahead.] > A Question: is the `vs` request (which sets the vertical spacing) > honored in nroff mode? Yes. > B. In nroff (or nroff mode in groff), what _units_ is the argument > to the `vs` request reckoned in? I remember .vs always being given in points, with a default v

Re: Oversized Tables - how to produce non-truncated PDF?

2024-07-18 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> some of the huge tables which in my original sources spread > over two book pages, appear truncated by the PDF, no matter > what papersize I try to set (e.g. like A3). The default column separation is 3 ens. We can make the table a bit narrower by reducing this to 2 ens, lb2 s2 s2 s2 s2 s2

Re: vim :hardcopy equivalent

2024-07-24 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > a "margin" measures an extent of whitespace (or "negative space"), > > whereas the `sp` request positions the _text baseline_, The first is correct and the second incorrect for [g]troff. In troff (and nroff), if you say .sp |0 then this does not mean "put the baseline at the top of the pa

Re: vim :hardcopy equivalent

2024-07-25 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> I will defend my formulation. `sp` _does_ position the > text baseline, period. I concur. It positions every part of the line. I simply did not want anyone to get the impression that ".sp |3c" would put the _baseline_ at 3 cm from the top. Also, in this case the baseline will only _normall

Re: magazine style end marks

2024-08-08 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> For a small fanzine project I want to typeset magazine > style end marks [1]. Particularly I want to include the > authors handle or name in the end mark, like seen for > instance in some articles like in this issue of the > Space Gamer Magazine [2]. How about this (see attachment)? It prints

Re: Rendering the em dash on the terminal

2024-08-28 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
I suspect conventions might be strongly regionally dependent. > - Em-dashes are represented by two hyphens with no space > either side--visually easy to understand. > > - En-dashes are represented by a single hyphen > surrounded by spaces (e.g. 2 - 3 minutes). I believe this should be rever

Re: a question of hyphenation policy

2024-08-30 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> .hlm nSet the consecutive automatically hyphenated line limit >to to n. A negative value means "no limit". What happens after that count is reached is that the next line is stretched wide, simply to avoid hyphenation (unless .na is used, in which case the line is simply broke

Re: a question of hyphenation policy

2024-08-30 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> \s[-X]\H[+X]text to be kerned goes here\H[0]\s0 I believe distorting the shapes of letters is even more frowned upon in typesetting circles than consecutive hyphenation is. As a practical approach to manually optimizing the line breaks in a paragraph, I have found that twiddling the space siz

Re: a question of hyphenation policy

2024-08-30 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> > I believe distorting the shapes of letters is even more frowned > > upon in typesetting circles than consecutive hyphenation is. > > Tadziu, were you referring to your language (where I *think* > hyphenation would always be necessary)? Sorry if my wording was a bit vague. I was referring t

Re: a boundary-pushing challenge for drawing commands

2024-09-03 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> How does the formatter know which parts to fill? In the case of groff (I can't say anything about the original troff), I don't think the formatter actually knows or cares, but simply passes the path on to the device postprocessor, which just incorporates it into the device-dependent output, to

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