Re: [grpc-io] Re: http2 reverse proxy:how to reduce connections with backend server(s)?

[killjason]

seems that Lyft's Envoy did the same way as Josh said when proxying http/2.

在 2016年12月3日星期六 UTC+8上午3:35:10，Louis Ryan写道：
>
> I would take a look at Lyft's Envoy to perform the same role here too if 
> you're not too married to Java for the proxy
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:18 PM, killjason  > wrote:
>
>> @Josh Humphries, your plan is nice, gRPC currently not support init 
>> stream in server side, so this limit can be ignored.
>>
>> 在 2016年12月2日星期五 UTC+8上午2:18:54，Josh Humphries写道：
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 12:26 PM, killjason  wrote:
>>>
 In my case:
 1.The backend servers represent a same micro-service(may be contains 10 
 machines) serving the same APIs.
 2.The proxy is based on pure Netty(no gRPC included). but clients and 
 backend servers are developed on gRPC.
 I am not sure if one Netty channel can represents multiple connections 
 to multiple backends?

>>>
>>> If you are using Netty as a layer-4 proxy, then it cannot. But if you 
>>> use it as a layer-7 proxy, using the HTTP/2 protocol handlers, you can. 
>>> When a client initiates a new stream, you pick a backend, find a channel to 
>>> that backend, and create a new stream on that backend channel. You will 
>>> effectively have a map of incoming channel & stream ID -> outgoing channel 
>>> & stream ID and use that to proxy frames. This works for gRPC, but would 
>>> probably be insufficient for general-purpose HTTP/2 where the servers 
>>> initiate streams (since the proxy won't be able to know which client the 
>>> server-initiated stream was intended). Admittedly, there will probably be 
>>> some implementation complexity in properly managing HTTP/2 flow control 
>>> windows on both sides while avoiding excessive resource usage/buffering.
>>>  
>>>

 在 2016年12月2日星期五 UTC+8上午1:11:03，Carl Mastrangelo写道：
>
> This depends on how homogeneous your backends are.  For example, if 
> your proxy going to the same logical set of backends each time, (even if 
> they are distinct machines) then yes this is possible with gRPC.  In 
> gRPC, 
> a channel represent a higher level concept than a single client.  It 
> represents multiple connections to multiple backends (a.k.a. Servers).
>
> In your case, it seems like you should build a map of hostname (a.k.a. 
> "target") to Channel and pick the correct channel to serve requests to in 
> your proxy.   This works well if you are handling a small number 
> hostnames.  Each channel will have its own tcp connections, but there 
> will 
> be few total channels.
>
> You can do more advanced things too with your host name.  If the 
> backends that you send traffic to route requests based on the host name, 
> but each backend can handle the requests of other host names, then you 
> can 
> reduce the number of connections even further.  For example, if you know 
> that  foo.mydomain.com and bar.mydomain.com both physically point to 
> the same set of servers, then they can both share the same channel.  In 
> your channel, you can override the "authority" field but still reuse the 
> same connection.
>
>
> We can provide a better answer if you could share a little more detail 
> about what you want to do.
>
> On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 8:59:45 AM UTC-8, killjason wrote:
>>
>> (moved from: https://github.com/grpc/grpc-java/issues/2470)
>>
>> Imagine there are 10k grpc-clients, they established 10k http2 
>> connections(TCP-connections) with the http2 reverse proxy; then http2 
>> reverse proxy create 10k http2 connections(TCP-connections) to the 
>> origin(backend) server.
>> Is it possible to reduce the 10k connections between proxy and 
>> origin(backend) server?
>> for example, can a connection pool be used in reverse proxy to reduce 
>> connections with backend server?
>> This picture can explain better:
>> [image: image]
>> this picture is in Nginx blog, Is it possible to do the same thing to 
>> reduce connections with backend serevrs using http2-reverse proxy?
>>
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Re: [grpc-io] Re: http2 reverse proxy:how to reduce connections with backend server(s)?

[killjason]

the Lyft's Envoy use the same thread model as Netty: a connection was bound 
to a single thread during its lifetime.

在 2016年12月3日星期六 UTC+8上午3:35:10，Louis Ryan写道：
>
> I would take a look at Lyft's Envoy to perform the same role here too if 
> you're not too married to Java for the proxy
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:18 PM, killjason  > wrote:
>
>> @Josh Humphries, your plan is nice, gRPC currently not support init 
>> stream in server side, so this limit can be ignored.
>>
>> 在 2016年12月2日星期五 UTC+8上午2:18:54，Josh Humphries写道：
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 12:26 PM, killjason  wrote:
>>>
 In my case:
 1.The backend servers represent a same micro-service(may be contains 10 
 machines) serving the same APIs.
 2.The proxy is based on pure Netty(no gRPC included). but clients and 
 backend servers are developed on gRPC.
 I am not sure if one Netty channel can represents multiple connections 
 to multiple backends?

>>>
>>> If you are using Netty as a layer-4 proxy, then it cannot. But if you 
>>> use it as a layer-7 proxy, using the HTTP/2 protocol handlers, you can. 
>>> When a client initiates a new stream, you pick a backend, find a channel to 
>>> that backend, and create a new stream on that backend channel. You will 
>>> effectively have a map of incoming channel & stream ID -> outgoing channel 
>>> & stream ID and use that to proxy frames. This works for gRPC, but would 
>>> probably be insufficient for general-purpose HTTP/2 where the servers 
>>> initiate streams (since the proxy won't be able to know which client the 
>>> server-initiated stream was intended). Admittedly, there will probably be 
>>> some implementation complexity in properly managing HTTP/2 flow control 
>>> windows on both sides while avoiding excessive resource usage/buffering.
>>>  
>>>

 在 2016年12月2日星期五 UTC+8上午1:11:03，Carl Mastrangelo写道：
>
> This depends on how homogeneous your backends are.  For example, if 
> your proxy going to the same logical set of backends each time, (even if 
> they are distinct machines) then yes this is possible with gRPC.  In 
> gRPC, 
> a channel represent a higher level concept than a single client.  It 
> represents multiple connections to multiple backends (a.k.a. Servers).
>
> In your case, it seems like you should build a map of hostname (a.k.a. 
> "target") to Channel and pick the correct channel to serve requests to in 
> your proxy.   This works well if you are handling a small number 
> hostnames.  Each channel will have its own tcp connections, but there 
> will 
> be few total channels.
>
> You can do more advanced things too with your host name.  If the 
> backends that you send traffic to route requests based on the host name, 
> but each backend can handle the requests of other host names, then you 
> can 
> reduce the number of connections even further.  For example, if you know 
> that  foo.mydomain.com and bar.mydomain.com both physically point to 
> the same set of servers, then they can both share the same channel.  In 
> your channel, you can override the "authority" field but still reuse the 
> same connection.
>
>
> We can provide a better answer if you could share a little more detail 
> about what you want to do.
>
> On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 8:59:45 AM UTC-8, killjason wrote:
>>
>> (moved from: https://github.com/grpc/grpc-java/issues/2470)
>>
>> Imagine there are 10k grpc-clients, they established 10k http2 
>> connections(TCP-connections) with the http2 reverse proxy; then http2 
>> reverse proxy create 10k http2 connections(TCP-connections) to the 
>> origin(backend) server.
>> Is it possible to reduce the 10k connections between proxy and 
>> origin(backend) server?
>> for example, can a connection pool be used in reverse proxy to reduce 
>> connections with backend server?
>> This picture can explain better:
>> [image: image]
>> this picture is in Nginx blog, Is it possible to do the same thing to 
>> reduce connections with backend serevrs using http2-reverse proxy?
>>
>> -- 
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>>>
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Re: [grpc-io] Re: http2 reverse proxy:how to reduce connections with backend server(s)?

['Louis Ryan' via grpc.io]

I would take a look at Lyft's Envoy to perform the same role here too if
you're not too married to Java for the proxy

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:18 PM, killjason  wrote:

> @Josh Humphries, your plan is nice, gRPC currently not support init stream
> in server side, so this limit can be ignored.
>
> 在 2016年12月2日星期五 UTC+8上午2:18:54，Josh Humphries写道：
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 12:26 PM, killjason  wrote:
>>
>>> In my case:
>>> 1.The backend servers represent a same micro-service(may be contains 10
>>> machines) serving the same APIs.
>>> 2.The proxy is based on pure Netty(no gRPC included). but clients and
>>> backend servers are developed on gRPC.
>>> I am not sure if one Netty channel can represents multiple connections
>>> to multiple backends?
>>>
>>
>> If you are using Netty as a layer-4 proxy, then it cannot. But if you use
>> it as a layer-7 proxy, using the HTTP/2 protocol handlers, you can. When a
>> client initiates a new stream, you pick a backend, find a channel to that
>> backend, and create a new stream on that backend channel. You will
>> effectively have a map of incoming channel & stream ID -> outgoing channel
>> & stream ID and use that to proxy frames. This works for gRPC, but would
>> probably be insufficient for general-purpose HTTP/2 where the servers
>> initiate streams (since the proxy won't be able to know which client the
>> server-initiated stream was intended). Admittedly, there will probably be
>> some implementation complexity in properly managing HTTP/2 flow control
>> windows on both sides while avoiding excessive resource usage/buffering.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 在 2016年12月2日星期五 UTC+8上午1:11:03，Carl Mastrangelo写道：

 This depends on how homogeneous your backends are.  For example, if
 your proxy going to the same logical set of backends each time, (even if
 they are distinct machines) then yes this is possible with gRPC.  In gRPC,
 a channel represent a higher level concept than a single client.  It
 represents multiple connections to multiple backends (a.k.a. Servers).

 In your case, it seems like you should build a map of hostname (a.k.a.
 "target") to Channel and pick the correct channel to serve requests to in
 your proxy.   This works well if you are handling a small number
 hostnames.  Each channel will have its own tcp connections, but there will
 be few total channels.

 You can do more advanced things too with your host name.  If the
 backends that you send traffic to route requests based on the host name,
 but each backend can handle the requests of other host names, then you can
 reduce the number of connections even further.  For example, if you know
 that  foo.mydomain.com and bar.mydomain.com both physically point to
 the same set of servers, then they can both share the same channel.  In
 your channel, you can override the "authority" field but still reuse the
 same connection.


 We can provide a better answer if you could share a little more detail
 about what you want to do.

 On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 8:59:45 AM UTC-8, killjason wrote:
>
> (moved from: https://github.com/grpc/grpc-java/issues/2470)
>
> Imagine there are 10k grpc-clients, they established 10k http2
> connections(TCP-connections) with the http2 reverse proxy; then http2
> reverse proxy create 10k http2 connections(TCP-connections) to the
> origin(backend) server.
> Is it possible to reduce the 10k connections between proxy and
> origin(backend) server?
> for example, can a connection pool be used in reverse proxy to reduce
> connections with backend server?
> This picture can explain better:
> [image: image]
> this picture is in Nginx blog, Is it possible to do the same thing to
> reduce connections with backend serevrs using http2-reverse proxy?
>
> --
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>>>
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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>>
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Re: [grpc-io] Re: http2 reverse proxy:how to reduce connections with backend server(s)?

[killjason]

@Josh Humphries, your plan is nice, gRPC currently not support init stream 
in server side, so this limit can be ignored.

在 2016年12月2日星期五 UTC+8上午2:18:54，Josh Humphries写道：
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 12:26 PM, killjason  > wrote:
>
>> In my case:
>> 1.The backend servers represent a same micro-service(may be contains 10 
>> machines) serving the same APIs.
>> 2.The proxy is based on pure Netty(no gRPC included). but clients and 
>> backend servers are developed on gRPC.
>> I am not sure if one Netty channel can represents multiple connections to 
>> multiple backends?
>>
>
> If you are using Netty as a layer-4 proxy, then it cannot. But if you use 
> it as a layer-7 proxy, using the HTTP/2 protocol handlers, you can. When a 
> client initiates a new stream, you pick a backend, find a channel to that 
> backend, and create a new stream on that backend channel. You will 
> effectively have a map of incoming channel & stream ID -> outgoing channel 
> & stream ID and use that to proxy frames. This works for gRPC, but would 
> probably be insufficient for general-purpose HTTP/2 where the servers 
> initiate streams (since the proxy won't be able to know which client the 
> server-initiated stream was intended). Admittedly, there will probably be 
> some implementation complexity in properly managing HTTP/2 flow control 
> windows on both sides while avoiding excessive resource usage/buffering.
>  
>
>>
>> 在 2016年12月2日星期五 UTC+8上午1:11:03，Carl Mastrangelo写道：
>>>
>>> This depends on how homogeneous your backends are.  For example, if your 
>>> proxy going to the same logical set of backends each time, (even if they 
>>> are distinct machines) then yes this is possible with gRPC.  In gRPC, a 
>>> channel represent a higher level concept than a single client.  It 
>>> represents multiple connections to multiple backends (a.k.a. Servers).
>>>
>>> In your case, it seems like you should build a map of hostname (a.k.a. 
>>> "target") to Channel and pick the correct channel to serve requests to in 
>>> your proxy.   This works well if you are handling a small number 
>>> hostnames.  Each channel will have its own tcp connections, but there will 
>>> be few total channels.
>>>
>>> You can do more advanced things too with your host name.  If the 
>>> backends that you send traffic to route requests based on the host name, 
>>> but each backend can handle the requests of other host names, then you can 
>>> reduce the number of connections even further.  For example, if you know 
>>> that  foo.mydomain.com and bar.mydomain.com both physically point to 
>>> the same set of servers, then they can both share the same channel.  In 
>>> your channel, you can override the "authority" field but still reuse the 
>>> same connection.
>>>
>>>
>>> We can provide a better answer if you could share a little more detail 
>>> about what you want to do.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 8:59:45 AM UTC-8, killjason wrote:

 (moved from: https://github.com/grpc/grpc-java/issues/2470)

 Imagine there are 10k grpc-clients, they established 10k http2 
 connections(TCP-connections) with the http2 reverse proxy; then http2 
 reverse proxy create 10k http2 connections(TCP-connections) to the 
 origin(backend) server.
 Is it possible to reduce the 10k connections between proxy and 
 origin(backend) server?
 for example, can a connection pool be used in reverse proxy to reduce 
 connections with backend server?
 This picture can explain better:
 [image: image]
 this picture is in Nginx blog, Is it possible to do the same thing to 
 reduce connections with backend serevrs using http2-reverse proxy?

 -- 
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/grpc-io/dd155eb2-c351-49a0-8687-dffa035c3f2b%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

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Re: [grpc-io] Re: http2 reverse proxy:how to reduce connections with backend server(s)?

[Josh Humphries]

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 12:26 PM, killjason  wrote:

> In my case:
> 1.The backend servers represent a same micro-service(may be contains 10
> machines) serving the same APIs.
> 2.The proxy is based on pure Netty(no gRPC included). but clients and
> backend servers are developed on gRPC.
> I am not sure if one Netty channel can represents multiple connections to
> multiple backends?
>

If you are using Netty as a layer-4 proxy, then it cannot. But if you use
it as a layer-7 proxy, using the HTTP/2 protocol handlers, you can. When a
client initiates a new stream, you pick a backend, find a channel to that
backend, and create a new stream on that backend channel. You will
effectively have a map of incoming channel & stream ID -> outgoing channel
& stream ID and use that to proxy frames. This works for gRPC, but would
probably be insufficient for general-purpose HTTP/2 where the servers
initiate streams (since the proxy won't be able to know which client the
server-initiated stream was intended). Admittedly, there will probably be
some implementation complexity in properly managing HTTP/2 flow control
windows on both sides while avoiding excessive resource usage/buffering.


>
> 在 2016年12月2日星期五 UTC+8上午1:11:03，Carl Mastrangelo写道：
>>
>> This depends on how homogeneous your backends are.  For example, if your
>> proxy going to the same logical set of backends each time, (even if they
>> are distinct machines) then yes this is possible with gRPC.  In gRPC, a
>> channel represent a higher level concept than a single client.  It
>> represents multiple connections to multiple backends (a.k.a. Servers).
>>
>> In your case, it seems like you should build a map of hostname (a.k.a.
>> "target") to Channel and pick the correct channel to serve requests to in
>> your proxy.   This works well if you are handling a small number
>> hostnames.  Each channel will have its own tcp connections, but there will
>> be few total channels.
>>
>> You can do more advanced things too with your host name.  If the backends
>> that you send traffic to route requests based on the host name, but each
>> backend can handle the requests of other host names, then you can reduce
>> the number of connections even further.  For example, if you know that
>> foo.mydomain.com and bar.mydomain.com both physically point to the same
>> set of servers, then they can both share the same channel.  In your
>> channel, you can override the "authority" field but still reuse the same
>> connection.
>>
>>
>> We can provide a better answer if you could share a little more detail
>> about what you want to do.
>>
>> On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 8:59:45 AM UTC-8, killjason wrote:
>>>
>>> (moved from: https://github.com/grpc/grpc-java/issues/2470)
>>>
>>> Imagine there are 10k grpc-clients, they established 10k http2
>>> connections(TCP-connections) with the http2 reverse proxy; then http2
>>> reverse proxy create 10k http2 connections(TCP-connections) to the
>>> origin(backend) server.
>>> Is it possible to reduce the 10k connections between proxy and
>>> origin(backend) server?
>>> for example, can a connection pool be used in reverse proxy to reduce
>>> connections with backend server?
>>> This picture can explain better:
>>> [image: image]
>>> this picture is in Nginx blog, Is it possible to do the same thing to
>>> reduce connections with backend serevrs using http2-reverse proxy?
>>>
>>> --
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[grpc-io] Re: http2 reverse proxy:how to reduce connections with backend server(s)?

[killjason]

In my case:
1.The backend servers represent a same micro-service(may be contains 10 
machines) serving the same APIs.
2.The proxy is based on pure Netty(no gRPC included). but clients and 
backend servers are developed on gRPC.
I am not sure if one Netty channel can represents multiple connections to 
multiple backends?

在 2016年12月2日星期五 UTC+8上午1:11:03，Carl Mastrangelo写道：
>
> This depends on how homogeneous your backends are.  For example, if your 
> proxy going to the same logical set of backends each time, (even if they 
> are distinct machines) then yes this is possible with gRPC.  In gRPC, a 
> channel represent a higher level concept than a single client.  It 
> represents multiple connections to multiple backends (a.k.a. Servers).
>
> In your case, it seems like you should build a map of hostname (a.k.a. 
> "target") to Channel and pick the correct channel to serve requests to in 
> your proxy.   This works well if you are handling a small number hostnames. 
>  Each channel will have its own tcp connections, but there will be few 
> total channels.
>
> You can do more advanced things too with your host name.  If the backends 
> that you send traffic to route requests based on the host name, but each 
> backend can handle the requests of other host names, then you can reduce 
> the number of connections even further.  For example, if you know that  
> foo.mydomain.com and bar.mydomain.com both physically point to the same 
> set of servers, then they can both share the same channel.  In your 
> channel, you can override the "authority" field but still reuse the same 
> connection.
>
>
> We can provide a better answer if you could share a little more detail 
> about what you want to do.
>
> On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 8:59:45 AM UTC-8, killjason wrote:
>>
>> (moved from: https://github.com/grpc/grpc-java/issues/2470)
>>
>> Imagine there are 10k grpc-clients, they established 10k http2 
>> connections(TCP-connections) with the http2 reverse proxy; then http2 
>> reverse proxy create 10k http2 connections(TCP-connections) to the 
>> origin(backend) server.
>> Is it possible to reduce the 10k connections between proxy and 
>> origin(backend) server?
>> for example, can a connection pool be used in reverse proxy to reduce 
>> connections with backend server?
>> This picture can explain better:
>> [image: image]
>> this picture is in Nginx blog, Is it possible to do the same thing to 
>> reduce connections with backend serevrs using http2-reverse proxy?
>>
>>

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[grpc-io] Re: http2 reverse proxy:how to reduce connections with backend server(s)?

['Carl Mastrangelo' via grpc.io]

This depends on how homogeneous your backends are.  For example, if your 
proxy going to the same logical set of backends each time, (even if they 
are distinct machines) then yes this is possible with gRPC.  In gRPC, a 
channel represent a higher level concept than a single client.  It 
represents multiple connections to multiple backends (a.k.a. Servers).

In your case, it seems like you should build a map of hostname (a.k.a. 
"target") to Channel and pick the correct channel to serve requests to in 
your proxy.   This works well if you are handling a small number hostnames. 
 Each channel will have its own tcp connections, but there will be few 
total channels.

You can do more advanced things too with your host name.  If the backends 
that you send traffic to route requests based on the host name, but each 
backend can handle the requests of other host names, then you can reduce 
the number of connections even further.  For example, if you know that 
 foo.mydomain.com and bar.mydomain.com both physically point to the same 
set of servers, then they can both share the same channel.  In your 
channel, you can override the "authority" field but still reuse the same 
connection.


We can provide a better answer if you could share a little more detail 
about what you want to do.

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 8:59:45 AM UTC-8, killjason wrote:
>
> (moved from: https://github.com/grpc/grpc-java/issues/2470)
>
> Imagine there are 10k grpc-clients, they established 10k http2 
> connections(TCP-connections) with the http2 reverse proxy; then http2 
> reverse proxy create 10k http2 connections(TCP-connections) to the 
> origin(backend) server.
> Is it possible to reduce the 10k connections between proxy and 
> origin(backend) server?
> for example, can a connection pool be used in reverse proxy to reduce 
> connections with backend server?
> This picture can explain better:
> [image: image]
> this picture is in Nginx blog, Is it possible to do the same thing to 
> reduce connections with backend serevrs using http2-reverse proxy?
>
>

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