On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Alexander Larsson al...@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 14:25 +, Emmanuele Bassi wrote:
hi everyone;
this is a reminder that the next GTK team meeting is scheduled for:
Tuesday, December 14th, 2010 @ 20:00 UTC
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:50 PM, John Ralls jra...@ceridwen.us wrote:
GdkSelection is a wrapper around the X11 selection functions. It's not used
by Gtk, which has its own higher-level selection object which ties into
GtkClipboard and GtkDnd... which is why almost nobody knows about
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alexander Larsson al...@redhat.com wrote:
backend.
Yes, I am going to bring it back.
I see you added it back as it was before (i.e. a copy of the main one).
I dunno if it is very important, but the idea i had was to make e.g. gtk
+-3.0-x11.pc just depend on
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:39 AM, Benjamin Otte o...@gnome.org wrote:
What I'd do is put all the headers in the same directory, but add a
#ifdef GDK_WINDOWING_X11 to the header and then put
-DGDK_WINDOWING_X11 into gtk+-3.0-x11.pc That way we avoid lots of
different include directories and IMO
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Carlos Garnacho carl...@gnome.org wrote:
Hi!,
I've been wanting to raise this topic for some time. The patch
(attached) is simple, it basically will enable the XInput2
GdkDeviceManager by default, unless gdk_disable_multidevice() is called.
Even if the
2010/12/15 Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com:
Are this treeview refactoring mostly internal, or are there specific
API changes? After this refactoring it would be required to be
modified the apps using GtkTreeView?
Anyway I was also thinking on GailTreeView, the object that provides
the
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:43 PM, John Ralls jra...@ceridwen.us wrote:
But since you bring it up, what is the official policy? Is it C89? Is it
published somewhere?
For GTK+, we're generally avoiding C++ comments, since they cause
problems for the compilers that are used on win32. What other
A little update on the status of these actions:
ACTION: test treeview-refactor with a very large dataset (kris)
ACTION: merge treeview-refactor before next snapshot (tristan, kris)
Done
ACTION: review for combo-box-refactor (mclasen?, kris next week)
ACTION: review iconv-iew-refactor
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Tristan Van Berkom
trista...@openismus.com wrote:
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 13:50 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
A little update on the status of these actions:
ACTION: test treeview-refactor with a very large dataset (kris)
ACTION: merge treeview-refactor before
Tristan,
another thing (that I believe Cosimo already pointed out) is that the
new cell area code seems to not quite get interaction between cell
data functions and size allocation right.
You can see the resulting breakage in testappchooser. The treeview in
the appchooser uses a separate cell
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 1:09 AM, Tristan Van Berkom
trista...@openismus.com wrote:
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 19:33 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Tristan,
another thing (that I believe Cosimo already pointed out) is that the
new cell area code seems to not quite get interaction between cell
data
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 6:09 AM, Carlos Garnacho carl...@gnome.org wrote:
Hey,
void gtk_cell_area_set_style_detail (GtkCellArea *area,
const gchar
*detail);
Before we let these APIs go stable, we should figure out how this is
Monfort
Christian Persch
Xavier Claessens
Peng Huang
Ted Gould
Pavel Holejsovsky
Cosimo Cecchi
Murray Cumming
John Palmieri
Will Thompson
Javier Jardón
December 20, 2010
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Gorse
December 21, 2010
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contributed to this release:
Chun-wei Fan
Bastien Nocera
Javier Jardón
Federico Mena Quintero
Michael Natterer
Benjamin Otte
Colin Walters
Murray Cumming
Martyn Russell
Tristan Van Berkom
Carlos Garcia Campos
December 21, 2010
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2010/12/23 Sebastian Dröge sebastian.dro...@collabora.co.uk:
IMHO (not being a GLib maintainer) this would only be useful in very
specific scenarios and wouldn't be something for a general purpose
library like GLib. But maybe others disagree :)
No, I think you pretty much nailed it. GLib is
Dufresne
Christian Persch
January 5, 2011
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Borovšak
Emilio Pozuelo Monfort
January 6, 2011
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January 6, 2011
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Contributors to this release:
Tor Lillqvist
Alejandro Piñeiro
Murray Cumming
Benjamin Otte
Adel Gadllah
Adrian Johnson
Milan Bouchet-Valat
Frederic Croszat
January 6, 2011
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Selkowitz
Hans Breuer
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January 10, 2011
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GTK+ 2.99.2 is now available for download at:
ftp://ftp.gtk.org/pub/gtk/2.99/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/gtk+/2.99/
fca4b39359e7ab9532aaf826518ef5d3f6ba5174799883f8b0975783f76db4ad gtk
+-2.99.2.tar.bz2
97c55a876ccf4e1f267636797399ddea58fde4e8a2e291692d263affe356af22 gtk
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 3:57 AM, Elmir Jagudin elmir.jagu...@axis.com wrote:
Hi
I have filed a bug report in Bugzilla 2010-11-26:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635852
I have received no reply as of this date. I think the issue is real
and the bugzilla entry contains a patch
On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 16:18 +0100, Thierry Vignaud wrote:
Given that those fixes were documented in git, why not describe them
here as usual?
http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=03344207b9b2951bb51a31ff06fe6910542e6d99
I was tired, sorry.
Persch
Ray Strode
Behdad Esfahbod
January 22, 2011
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I think it would be a good idea to have a team meeting tomorrow, usual
time and place, to put the last nails into 3.0.
Unfortunately, I'm not yet 100% sure if I can actually be around at
the usual time tomorrow, so this is a somewhat tentative invite.
Matthias
Minutes
• overriding icons (css equivalent for gtkrc stock icons)
∘ it is possible to do override stock icons by relying on the
fallback to icon-theme and prepending to the icon theme path
∘ some stock functionality (per-state, per-text-direction variants)
not available in this way
∘ -
On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Tristan Van Berkom
trista...@openismus.com wrote:
In conclusion:
=
Can we do either one of the following (in the order of my preference):
a.) Give up the complaining about moving code from _init() to
-constructor() and just accept that
On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Hans Breuer h...@breuer.org wrote:
At 26.01.2011 17:33, Benjamin Otte wrote:
Hans Breuerhansat breuer.org writes:
Current master has three occurences of
#ifdef GDK_WINDOWING_X11
if (GDK_IS_X11_DISPLAY (display))
followed by some
window =
pointers
640823 wrong documentation for g_source_add_child_source
* Translation updates:
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January 28, 2011
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Dywan
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Bastien Nocera
Javier Jardón
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January 30, 2011
Matthias
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:25 PM, John Ralls jra...@ceridwen.us wrote:
Undefined symbols:
_gtk_combo_box_text_new, referenced from:
_create_combo_box in sizegroup.o
_attach_widgets in textview.o
_gtk_combo_box_text_new_with_entry, referenced from:
_do_combobox in combobox.o
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Benjamin Otte o...@gnome.org wrote:
Hey,
I intend to remove the following things from GDK on my quest to get
rid of GdkNativeWindow.
structs:
- GdkEventClientMessage:
functions:
- gdk_add_client_message_filter()
- gdk_event_send_client_message()
-
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Benjamin Otte o...@gnome.org wrote:
Which brings me to the point of this mail:
Is there an actual user of this?
Only other place I found in gnome is the keyboard plugin in
gnome-settings-daemon, which has a use of
gdk_display_add_client_message_filter
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Vincent Untz vu...@gnome.org wrote:
Hi Benjamin,
Le lundi 31 janvier 2011, à 07:13 +0100, Benjamin Otte a écrit :
Hey,
I intend to remove the following things from GDK on my quest to get
rid of GdkNativeWindow.
Cool stuff, nice to see more cleaning, etc.
Quintero
Christian Persch
Guillaume Desmottes
Murray Cumming
Ignacio Casal Quinteiro
Krzesimir Nowak
Paolo Borelli
Emmanuele Bassi
Stefan Kost
Kristian Rietveld
Dan Winship
Vincent Untz
February 1, 2011
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gtk
information about GLib is available at:
http://www.gtk.org/
The GLib Team:
Hans Breuer, Matthias Clasen, Tim Janik, Tor Lillqvist,
Manish Singh, Owen Taylor, and Sebastian Wilhelmi
Thanks to all contributors, including
Alberto Garcia
Andre Klapper
Bastien Nocera
Behdad Esfahbod
Benjamin Gilbert
on GtkApplication
* Ryan Lortie (Codethink), for his work on dconf, GSettings and
GtkApplication
* Javier Jardón, for tireless code, build and documentation cleanup
February 10, 2011
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On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Paul Davis p...@linuxaudiosystems.com wrote:
the migration doc mentioned in matthias' email announcement is 404'd
Should be there now, I think.
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On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:03 PM, Andrew Cowie
and...@operationaldynamics.com wrote:
On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 19:47 -0500, Shaun McCance wrote:
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 10:00 +1100, Andrew Cowie wrote:
On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 22:24 +0100, Tadej Borovšak wrote:
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:14 AM, Colin Walters walt...@verbum.org wrote:
Well, I think the easiest thing is to explain at the top of each
version, like I did for 3. Though now that library can parallel
display the two I need to update it to say GTK+ 2 is at /gtk and GTK3
is at /gtk3.
I
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Colin Walters walt...@verbum.org wrote:
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Matthias Clasen
matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote:
Similarly it would make sense to have the GTK+ 2 docs mention GTK3.
This is a good idea, indeed.
How about these two patches for GTK3
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Benjamin Otte o...@gnome.org wrote:
Hey,
I've pushed a new branch picture to the gtk repository. It contains
an implementation of an idea I've toyed with in my mind for a while.
It's of course not finished yet, but already works very well and more
importantly
Hey,
I've spent the last night poring through gail bugs and code, and came
to the conclusion that we need to face the tough reality that the
state of a11y in GTK+ is sadly declining. There were years old patches
in bugzilla which fix pretty obvious bugs; on top of that, I've fixed
at least one
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com wrote:
Although move the gail implementation to gtk has his advantages, why
this would be better that just fix them directly on gail? One of the
big problems here is the lack of resources, so doing the move would
add a extra work
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 09:43 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
The current state of affairs cannot be useful for anybody.
let's also look at the state of Atk's API, and what's required to do to
create an ATK implementation
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com wrote:
Ok, so you are proposing a change more deep that I thought.
You are proposing to forget this proxy approach on the accessibility
support. As far as I understand you are proposing to implement the ATK
interfaces directly on
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com wrote:
1 of 4 is failing. Could you elaborate why this theorical points have
failed miserably?
In my view, keeping the a11y implementation in their separate module
ghetto is a failure in terms of maintenance, performance, and
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com wrote:
So probably we could study that. Anyway, in the same way, right now I
don't see how this would better that the option proposed by Matthias.
Oh, I think having the option of implementing the a11y interface in
the widget
handle large intervals
642490 notify_desktop_launch() g_variant_new_bytestring:...
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Thanks to the people who contributed to this release:
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Lin Ma
February 18, 2011
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On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 6:19 PM, Andrea Bolognani e...@kiyuko.org wrote:
From what I’ve seen, to make my code work seamlessy in Gjs the following
things would need to be done:
* Add support for boxing a GError** into GValue
* Add support for a ERROR parameter type to
I've spent some time this weekend starting to explore how moving gail
implementations into gtk 1-by-1 will work in practice. I didn't get
very far (GtkWidget, GtkContainer and GtkImage), but the exercise
proves very useful for spotting all the things that should be
straightened out in the gail
://live.gnome.org/GtkTasks
Thanks to everybody who contributed to this release:
Chun-wei Fan
Michael Natterer
Colin Walters
Martin Nordholts
Martin Pitt
Tristan Van Berkom
Szilárd Pfeiffer
Alejandro Piñeiro Iglesias
Allin Cottrell
Tor Lillqvist
February 21, 2011
Matthias Clasen
Benjamin Otte
Javier Jardón
Martin Nordholts
Szilárd Pfeiffer
Alejandro Piñeiro Iglesias
Emmanuele Bassi
Carlos Garnacho
Allin Cottrell
Vincent Untz
Tor Lillqvist
Daniel Garcia
Marc-André Lureau
February 21, 2011
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On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Li Yuan liy...@gnome.org wrote:
I think the plan makes sense. Just one question, what do we get from
port GtkAccessible to use AtkGObjectAccessible?
AtkGObjectAccessible's parent is AtkObject anyway. I thought
AtkGObjectAccessible is designed for objects which
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 4:55 AM, Li Yuan liy...@gnome.org wrote:
OK. I made a patch for GtkArrowAccessible. Do we want to open a bug
to keep all the patches and review them one by one or just commit them
first?
I saw you remove g_return* calls, and also macros like GAIL_IS_IMAGE.
I am not
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Wen-Yen Chuang ca...@calno.com wrote:
Because dbus is slow and unreliable.
Starting with this premise is not going to be very useful... D-Bus is
generally considered a good thing here.
We have other speedy and reliable IPC to be used for single instance
apps.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Bastien Nocera had...@hadess.net wrote:
On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 15:22 +0200, Stefan Kost wrote:
So we'd need a way to export the marks positions to the engine, and
adding style classes doesn't scale (we'd need to add 4 separate ones for
this to work).
I think
, 2011
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On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Tristan Van Berkom
trista...@openismus.com wrote:
On Sat, 2011-02-26 at 10:37 -0500, David Zeuthen wrote:
... do I have to pull out that change while
GApplication is still unstable ?
GApplication is not unstable.
It is true that after all the back-and-forth,
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 4:40 AM, Tristan Van Berkom
trista...@openismus.com wrote:
As I mentioned before, I'm not asking for an implementation on win32
of GtkApplication, I'm just asking for it to succeed, run a mainloop
and do something as a fallback for a missing implementation.
So, you are
who contributed:
Cosimo Cecchi
Vincent Untz
Andreas Rottmann
Will Thompson
Ryan Lortie
Kjell Ahlstedt
March 7, 2011
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On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Tristan Van Berkom
trista...@openismus.com wrote:
b.) It's damn easy to make GApplication at least startup
correctly, run the main loop and just not use any IPC,
it's the least I think that one can expect.
Then lets the patch already, instead of
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Jeff Chua jeff.chua.li...@gmail.com wrote:
Commit 52ef73ac8c40ea2a8ca80cf96d52a836bcaf76c2 breaks vmware 7.1.3
VMware hangs on startup. Nothing displayed. Reverting the commit solves the
problem. Sorry, I couldn't find any logs in vmware.
Thanks,
Jeff
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com wrote:
= GTK+ Team Meeting - 2011-03-08 =
• 3.2 planning
- 6 months cycle
- branch master soon
- 3.2 bugs tagged in bugzilla
ACTION: everyone should go over the list
I've now created a gtk-3-0 branch. So master is open
contributors:
Alexander Larsson
Federico Mena Quintero
Sebastian Pölsterl
Benjamin Otte
Tristan Van Berkom
Martin Pitt
March 14, 2011
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Kurdish
Slovenian
Swedish
Thanks to all contributors:
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John Ralls
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March 14, 2011
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...
644607 Correct internal definition of C_()
* Translation updates:
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On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Murray Cumming murr...@murrayc.com wrote:
libegg has lots of directories that have just a README saying how the
code has successfully moved into GTK+. But that's mostly old news now.
If there's no objection then I'll remove the directories so it's easier
to see
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Russian
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March 21,2011
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:
British English
Dutch
Galician
German
Hungarian
Latvian
Lithuanian
Serbian
Thanks to all contributors:
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Jasper St. Pierre
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William Jon McCann
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March 21, 2011
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This release reverts a problematic change in 3.0.4 which caused
application font settings to be ignored.
March 23, 2011
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On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com wrote:
And I wonder where the GDK_THREADS_ENTER / GDK_THREADS_LEAVE that we
need when entering from an idle handler is.
Presumably this is necessary for every '_async' callback that occurs
[ and lets hope
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Colin Walters walt...@verbum.org wrote:
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Petr Tomasek toma...@etf.cuni.cz wrote:
Wait... So it won't be possible with gnome-shell/gtk3 applications
to have two instances of the same program started with two different
locales?
GLib 2.28.5 is now available at
1433e84806cd5755eb46d53aed4377c8ac8b0a53fc567aa27867d90cad4edf69
glib-2.28.5.tar.gz
8eb4b56b228c6d0bf5021dd23db5b0084d80cc6d8d89d7863073c2da575ec22a
glib-2.28.5.tar.bz2
This is a minor update, including translation updates and a few
documentation improvements.
Benjamin Otte
Alexander Larsson
Ryan Lortie
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April 1, 2011
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* Fix GtkComboBoxEntry accessibility support
* Thread-safety fixes in file chooser and app chooser code
* Fix some deficiencies with the builtin icon theme
* Translation updates
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On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Morten Welinder mort...@gnome.org wrote:
Once code starts looking like an #ifdef soup it might be time to introduce
a method on, say, the window object.
IMHO, of course.
Certainly. Code that starts looking like that is a very obvious
candidate for moving into
Persch
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GTK+ 3.1.2 is now available for download at:
ftp://ftp.gtk.org/pub/gtk/3.1/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/gtk+/3.1/
ff8415a3eb2d288b9c85a44b99c6e460570c1f3e462b6dc5dfc4ca6d7db48baa gtk
+-3.1.2.tar.gz
9a2490aac931f771a6addc891be09061c01f6c0b4e660ef72d4af4811e0b6b7b gtk
+-3.1.2.tar.bz2
I've just done initial 2.29/3.1 releases of GLib and GTK+, which were
overdue. So far they have mostly picked up bug fixes, but at least for
GLib, we have Davids gdbus codegen work lined up and pretty much ready
to land. Other things are not quite that far along, so I think we
should perhaps plan
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Thanks to all contributors!
April 15, 2011
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On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Kristian Rietveld k...@gtk.org wrote:
there are complicated patches for this, and there's a simple patch:
treat a scroll event equivalently to a button/key press/release. does
anyone know of a good reason not to do this?
I don't, and I think we should apply
I think it is time for another GTK+ team meeting, to talk about 3.2
The meeting will be held in the #gtk-devel channel on irc.gnome.org, at 20:00
UTC[1].
I've started to put together an agenda at http://live.gnome.org/GTK+/Meetings
Feel free to add more there.
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Matthias Clasen
matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote:
I think it is time for another GTK+ team meeting, to talk about 3.2
The meeting will be held in the #gtk-devel channel on irc.gnome.org, at 20:00
UTC[1].
I've started to put together an agenda at http
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Matthias Clasen
matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Matthias Clasen
matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote:
I think it is time for another GTK+ team meeting, to talk about 3.2
The meeting will be held in the #gtk-devel channel
, 2011
Matthias Clasen
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Walters
Arnel Borja
Carlos Garnacho
Rui Matos
Tristan Van Berkom
May 7, 2011
Matthias Clasen
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On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Kristian Rietveld k...@gtk.org wrote:
Hi all,
The following two commits sparked my interest to look into the
GtkTreeModel:row-deleted saga again, which has been haunting me for the last
9 years:
0c3da06 gtk_tree_model_filter_row_deleted: don't emit signals
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Brian Cameron
brian.came...@oracle.com wrote:
Another example is that the ATK abstracts common characteristics of
widgets in a way that is useful to AT programs. All widgets that deal
with text (labels, entry fields, combo boxes, etc.) all implement the
same
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com wrote:
On 05/11/2011 02:57 PM, Benjamin Otte wrote:
Well most of the paragraphs were already answered by Brian, but I would like
to add a comment here.What concerns me a lot is that there is only very few
applications
that
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:53 PM, Benjamin Otte o...@gnome.org wrote:
Hey,
I've had an interesting discussion that has so far involved Matthias
and Alex about align and expand flags and about GtkGrid's involvement
in it[1]. This discussion is mostly academic in that it should never
appear in
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com wrote:
On 05/13/2011 05:47 PM, Piñeiro wrote:
The magnifier requires it for focus-tracking. As I said Joseph was
planning
to try to use some at-spi functionalities on the gs magnifier. As right
now
at-spi2 python bindings are
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Benjamin Otte o...@gnome.org wrote:
I have multiple problems with this approach:
1) It's the default behavior in that it's used when you create widget
trees in Glade or when you write simple demo apps.
I really think the glade problem can't be helped. It is
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 7:42 AM, ecyrbe ecy...@gmail.com wrote:
I just filled this bug : https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=651225
Mathias closed it as wontfix, this is by design.. i'm told that it's not a
bug it's a feature!
So if my desktop is crashing it's a feature and nobody is
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Morten Welinder mort...@gnome.org wrote:
The core principle that allows most functions to always succeed is
that programming bugs are not thrown, they just terminate the
program.
Havoc, the data doesn't agree with that assertion.
Let's look at numbers:
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Benjamin Otte o...@gnome.org wrote:
That said, let me get into how I think this whole interaction between
designers and developers should work inside GTK. I envision the design
process for new widgets or interactions to go something like this:
1) GNOME
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com wrote:
On 05/10/2011 04:28 PM, Benjamin Otte wrote:
In fact, IMHO, some of the issues pointed by Benjamin would be solved by
this [2] and the gail migration, but lets not talk about it. As I said,
those are long term tasks, and the
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