Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[Viv Watkins]

I too noticed the the off the shoulder dresses and was also doubtful about 
the thin cotton dresses the young girls were wearing.  I am having to read 
the book again, have been meaning to for years!  By the way, Natashia's 
dresses are described as muslin with pantaloons.


I like the uniforms but I don't know enough to say if they are accurate; 
they look good.  I have worked in theatre and re-enactment and understand 
the compromises that have to be made, but I do like to feel that the overall 
look of a production is 'right'.  The dresses jarred on me too and I don't 
think that mentioning that is snarking.  I have always felt that my 
enthusiasm for costume means I have a greater interest and if that sometimes 
makes me critical of things I don't think are quite right, it also makes me 
much more appreciative of things that are well done.


Viv Watkins


-Original Message- 
From: Kate Bunting

Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:18 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

I wasn't snarking, merely asking for information. I thought the bare
shoulders were wrong for the period, even as "extreme" fashion, and wanted
to confirm my opinion.

Kate Bunting 


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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[Elizabeth Jones]

I haven't seen this movie but I feel like movie costumes run on cycles  of
fashion that can be just as reactionary as fashions in everyday life.
something along the lines of "everyone remembers their version of the story
so I have to be different." Sometimes it ends up just being difference for
the sake of difference.
Elizabeth
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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[Kate Bunting]

I wasn't snarking, merely asking for information. I thought the bare
shoulders were wrong for the period, even as "extreme" fashion, and wanted
to confirm my opinion.

Kate Bunting

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 9:50 PM, Lavolta Press  wrote:

> Oh sure, I just don't understand why some people think it's so much fun to
> get together and tear someone down. Which is really what's happening in a
> lot of those discussions. Some feel snarking is off limits with people they
> know, but the movie/TV industry is fair game.
>
> Fran
>
>
>
> On 1/5/2016 1:14 PM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> If we all liked the same thing, there would only be vanilla ice cream, as
>> they say.
>>
>>
>> Ann Wass
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Lavolta Press 
>> To: Historical Costume 
>> Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2016 2:17 pm
>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"
>>
>> I gave up on snarking at movie costumes many years ago.  Movies are
>> fiction. They are not documentaries, they are not meant to be
>> educational, and they are not made primarily for viewing by historic
>> reenactors. In many, much of the history itself is, at best, speculation.
>>
>> I don't watch movies for the costumes. I watch them to see whether it's
>> good drama and looking for things to criticize just spoils the drama.
>> When I want solid information I look elsewhere. And really, some of the
>> Facebook discussions sound just like catty little junior-high girls
>> gleefully tearing down each other's clothes.
>>
>> Fran
>> Lavolta Press
>> www.lavoltapress.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/5/2016 2:59 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Some of my Facebook friends are following. No one shoulder bare, or
>>> many, many, other things. I know it's theater, but even allowing for that,
>>> seems very weird. My opinion is, even though it is a story, it is based so
>>> firmly in a historical time and place, it seems downright strange to go off
>>> on such flights of fancy. Wonder if there will be a "making of" wherein it
>>> is explained?
>>>
>>> Ann Wass
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>> ___
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[Katy Bishop]

I don't see it as snarking either, the costume stills I've seen look
particularly bad, especially for what one is used to seeing for BBC period
productions. But the one shoulder evening dress, so odd, looks so modern
and harsh, good for a ballroom dance performance.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:18 AM, Kate Bunting  wrote:

> I wasn't snarking, merely asking for information. I thought the bare
> shoulders were wrong for the period, even as "extreme" fashion, and wanted
> to confirm my opinion.
>
> Kate Bunting
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 9:50 PM, Lavolta Press 
> wrote:
>
> > Oh sure, I just don't understand why some people think it's so much fun
> to
> > get together and tear someone down. Which is really what's happening in a
> > lot of those discussions. Some feel snarking is off limits with people
> they
> > know, but the movie/TV industry is fair game.
> >
> > Fran
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/5/2016 1:14 PM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> If we all liked the same thing, there would only be vanilla ice cream,
> as
> >> they say.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ann Wass
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Lavolta Press 
> >> To: Historical Costume 
> >> Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2016 2:17 pm
> >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"
> >>
> >> I gave up on snarking at movie costumes many years ago.  Movies are
> >> fiction. They are not documentaries, they are not meant to be
> >> educational, and they are not made primarily for viewing by historic
> >> reenactors. In many, much of the history itself is, at best,
> speculation.
> >>
> >> I don't watch movies for the costumes. I watch them to see whether it's
> >> good drama and looking for things to criticize just spoils the drama.
> >> When I want solid information I look elsewhere. And really, some of the
> >> Facebook discussions sound just like catty little junior-high girls
> >> gleefully tearing down each other's clothes.
> >>
> >> Fran
> >> Lavolta Press
> >> www.lavoltapress.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/5/2016 2:59 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> Some of my Facebook friends are following. No one shoulder bare, or
> >>> many, many, other things. I know it's theater, but even allowing for
> that,
> >>> seems very weird. My opinion is, even though it is a story, it is
> based so
> >>> firmly in a historical time and place, it seems downright strange to
> go off
> >>> on such flights of fancy. Wonder if there will be a "making of"
> wherein it
> >>> is explained?
> >>>
> >>> Ann Wass
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >> h-costume mailing list
> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >>
> >> ___
> >> h-costume mailing list
> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> ___
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>



-- 
Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
katybisho...@gmail.comwww.VintageVictorian.com
 Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
  Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Re the styles of dresses, I still have to chuckle at the 18th C interpretions 
in films of the '20s-30s where the gowns have dropped waists.  In an earlier 
production of W the fashion tone is Audrey Hepburn all the way. It seems that 
one can peg the date of the film release by the tweaked styles that give a nod 
to contemporary fashion. Other interesting film studies are the costumes for 
Victoria and Albert and Dr Zhivago.The latter spawned a popular contemporary 
Fashion..the Maxie dress line.

behalf of Katy Bishop 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 9:53 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

I don't see it as snarking either, the costume stills I've seen look
particularly bad, especially for what one is used to seeing for BBC period
productions. But the one shoulder evening dress, so odd, looks so modern
and harsh, good for a ballroom dance performance.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:18 AM, Kate Bunting  wrote:

> I wasn't snarking, merely asking for information. I thought the bare
> shoulders were wrong for the period, even as "extreme" fashion, and wanted
> to confirm my opinion.
>
> Kate Bunting
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 9:50 PM, Lavolta Press 
> wrote:
>
> > Oh sure, I just don't understand why some people think it's so much fun
> to
> > get together and tear someone down. Which is really what's happening in a
> > lot of those discussions. Some feel snarking is off limits with people
> they
> > know, but the movie/TV industry is fair game.
> >
> > Fran
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/5/2016 1:14 PM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> If we all liked the same thing, there would only be vanilla ice cream,
> as
> >> they say.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ann Wass
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Lavolta Press 
> >> To: Historical Costume 
> >> Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2016 2:17 pm
> >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"
> >>
> >> I gave up on snarking at movie costumes many years ago.  Movies are
> >> fiction. They are not documentaries, they are not meant to be
> >> educational, and they are not made primarily for viewing by historic
> >> reenactors. In many, much of the history itself is, at best,
> speculation.
> >>
> >> I don't watch movies for the costumes. I watch them to see whether it's
> >> good drama and looking for things to criticize just spoils the drama.
> >> When I want solid information I look elsewhere. And really, some of the
> >> Facebook discussions sound just like catty little junior-high girls
> >> gleefully tearing down each other's clothes.
> >>
> >> Fran
> >> Lavolta Press
> >> www.lavoltapress.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/5/2016 2:59 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> Some of my Facebook friends are following. No one shoulder bare, or
> >>> many, many, other things. I know it's theater, but even allowing for
> that,
> >>> seems very weird. My opinion is, even though it is a story, it is
> based so
> >>> firmly in a historical time and place, it seems downright strange to
> go off
> >>> on such flights of fancy. Wonder if there will be a "making of"
> wherein it
> >>> is explained?
> >>>
> >>> Ann Wass
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >> h-costume mailing list
> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >>
> >> ___
> >> h-costume mailing list
> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> ___
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>



--
Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
katybisho...@gmail.comwww.VintageVictorian.com
 Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
  Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[annbwass]

 Yes, that is a great book, and I almost cited it, too. 

Ann Wass

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Viv Watkins 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Wed, Jan 6, 2016 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

There is a fascinating book - "Hollywood and History - Costume Design in 
Film" which looks how costume designers present historical dress.   It was 
published in 1988 to accompany an exhibition mounted at the Los Angeles 
County Museum of Art.  Part of the foreword says "Contemporary viewers are 
not aware that the costumes reflect their own standards of style and 
beauty - that the cave-dwellers' costumes are cut to emphasise the 1940's 
silhouette, that the antebellum dresses are made with 1930's bias-cut 
fabrics.  It is only with the passage of time that one can see clearly how 
all-pervasive the designer's contemporary aesthetics have been." It is one 
of my favourite costume books, it has given me an extra layer of fun when I 
watch the wonderful old movies.

Viv Watkins.

-Original Message- 
From: R Lloyd Mitchell
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 3:20 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

Re the styles of dresses, I still have to chuckle at the 18th C 
interpretions in films of the '20s-30s where the gowns have dropped waists. 
In an earlier production of W the fashion tone is Audrey Hepburn all the 
way. It seems that one can peg the date of the film release by the tweaked 
styles that give a nod to contemporary fashion. Other interesting film 
studies are the costumes for Victoria and Albert and Dr Zhivago.The latter 
spawned a popular contemporary Fashion..the Maxie dress line. 

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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[annbwass]

Lucky you! I schemed to get to Boston to see it but just couldn't.

Ann Wass

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Katy Bishop 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Wed, Jan 6, 2016 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

Absolutely, I worked on that show, dressing mannequins when it came to
Boston. Opening up a Renaissance dress and seeing a big honking zipper and
padded bullet shaped bust cups was so funny.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Viv Watkins 
wrote:

> There is a fascinating book - "Hollywood and History - Costume Design in
> Film"  which looks how costume designers present historical dress.   It was
> published in 1988 to accompany an exhibition mounted at the Los Angeles
> County Museum of Art.  Part of the foreword says "Contemporary viewers are
> not aware that the costumes reflect their own standards of style and beauty
> - that the cave-dwellers' costumes are cut to emphasise the 1940's
> silhouette, that the antebellum dresses are made with 1930's bias-cut
> fabrics.  It is only with the passage of time that one can see clearly how
> all-pervasive the designer's contemporary aesthetics have been." It is one
> of my favourite costume books, it has given me an extra layer of fun when I
> watch the wonderful old movies.
>
> Viv Watkins.
>
> -Original Message- From: R Lloyd Mitchell
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 3:20 PM
> To: Historical Costume
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"
>
> Re the styles of dresses, I still have to chuckle at the 18th C
> interpretions in films of the '20s-30s where the gowns have dropped waists.
> In an earlier production of W the fashion tone is Audrey Hepburn all the
> way. It seems that one can peg the date of the film release by the tweaked
> styles that give a nod to contemporary fashion. Other interesting film
> studies are the costumes for Victoria and Albert and Dr Zhivago.The latter
> spawned a popular contemporary Fashion..the Maxie dress line.
> ___
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>



-- 
Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
katybisho...@gmail.comwww.VintageVictorian.com
 Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
 Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[Katy Bishop]

Absolutely, I worked on that show, dressing mannequins when it came to
Boston. Opening up a Renaissance dress and seeing a big honking zipper and
padded bullet shaped bust cups was so funny.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Viv Watkins 
wrote:

> There is a fascinating book - "Hollywood and History - Costume Design in
> Film"  which looks how costume designers present historical dress.   It was
> published in 1988 to accompany an exhibition mounted at the Los Angeles
> County Museum of Art.  Part of the foreword says "Contemporary viewers are
> not aware that the costumes reflect their own standards of style and beauty
> - that the cave-dwellers' costumes are cut to emphasise the 1940's
> silhouette, that the antebellum dresses are made with 1930's bias-cut
> fabrics.  It is only with the passage of time that one can see clearly how
> all-pervasive the designer's contemporary aesthetics have been." It is one
> of my favourite costume books, it has given me an extra layer of fun when I
> watch the wonderful old movies.
>
> Viv Watkins.
>
> -Original Message- From: R Lloyd Mitchell
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 3:20 PM
> To: Historical Costume
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"
>
> Re the styles of dresses, I still have to chuckle at the 18th C
> interpretions in films of the '20s-30s where the gowns have dropped waists.
> In an earlier production of W the fashion tone is Audrey Hepburn all the
> way. It seems that one can peg the date of the film release by the tweaked
> styles that give a nod to contemporary fashion. Other interesting film
> studies are the costumes for Victoria and Albert and Dr Zhivago.The latter
> spawned a popular contemporary Fashion..the Maxie dress line.
> ___
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>



-- 
Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
katybisho...@gmail.comwww.VintageVictorian.com
 Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
  Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[Catherine Olanich Raymond]

It's a great book.  Every historical costumer who loves movies should 
own a copy.


On 01/06/2016 12:00 PM, Viv Watkins wrote:

There is a fascinating book - "Hollywood and History - Costume Design in
Film"  which looks how costume designers present historical dress.   It
was published in 1988 to accompany an exhibition mounted at the Los
Angeles County Museum of Art.  Part of the foreword says "Contemporary
viewers are not aware that the costumes reflect their own standards of
style and beauty - that the cave-dwellers' costumes are cut to emphasise
the 1940's silhouette, that the antebellum dresses are made with 1930's
bias-cut fabrics.  It is only with the passage of time that one can see
clearly how all-pervasive the designer's contemporary aesthetics have
been." It is one of my favourite costume books, it has given me an extra
layer of fun when I watch the wonderful old movies.




--
Catherine Olanich Raymond
ca...@thyrsus.com
(610) 805-9542

"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."
Benjamin Franklin


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