[h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes
I need help...please! I am so much out of my comfort zone. I have a slideshow online of the ballroom ceiling of the Ringling's Ca d'Zan Mansion in Sarasota, Florida. The ceiling is called Dancers of the World. There are 17 hand-painted medallions of cultural dancers. I need help with what countries and dances represented in the medallions. These were painted in the 1920s exclusively for the mansion by children's book illustrator / Broadway costume and set designer, William Andrew Willy Pogany. He was also a designer for the Zeigfeld Follies. He was friends with John and Mabel Ringling, the mansion's owner. He painted the medallions in his NYC studio and then applied them to the ballroom ceiling in Florida. I also need help with the photos 18-21. The curator said that these were titled Four Corners of American-born Dances. He told me that photos 18 19 dates represented but I can't recall the dances. I am not really sure that I have the dates correct for photos 20 21. And again, do not recall the dances. I had one hour to photograph the ballroom ceiling because I was running out of time and had to photograph around tour groups. This is a popular area of the mansion and is one of the first areas that the tour groups access. I didn't even have time to take notes. When I was photographing this room, I had a couple of hours before catching my flight home. I spent a week photographing other areas of the museum. Thankfully the photos turned out good. If you are able to answer my questions, please refer to the photo number on the slideshow headers in your answer. The slideshow can be seen at http://www.costumegallery.info/ . Please make sure to use .INFO and not .COM . When you go to the slideshow, make sure to click on the enlarged view...it looks like the number 7 on the right side of the menu. Many, many thanks in advance for your help. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT Re: Regional accents, was Making history hip
Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: And then there are the Americans who assume EVERY British accent is a HIGH-CLASS British accent. Someone said to me about an acquaintance who does indeed speak with a Cockney accent, I love to hear his accent! It's so refined! That's hilarious. Guess they've never seen My Fair Lady, then My favourite is when folks mix up Aussie with British of any sort. They really are quite different. On the evolution of American accents--I've been told that the Appalachian dialects are descendents of Scots and Irish dialects, while the Virginian/mid-Atlantic accent is probably closest to an upper-class British dialect (although I'm not sure I've ever heard what region of Britain). Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT Re: Regional accents, was Making history hip
In a message dated 4/4/2008 8:30:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Someone recently told me that it was a sign of refinement/education to be be to spell a word in different ways. Anyone ever hear of this? Not your, you're and yore. Or two, to and too. I suppose it might seem cosmopolitan to know color is colour in Britain or that you can shop at a shoppe... but it's really just having a good vocab. English has like 3 times more words in it than other languages... stolen from other languages... which is why we have so many different spellings and homonyms. **Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv000316) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT Re: Regional accents, was Making history hip
To try to relate my improve your vocab post to costumes: I love Handel, particularly the oratorio L'allegro, Il Penseroso, et il Moderato which is [mostly] Milton set to music. Now I don't sit around the pool reading Milton [might be nice though] but because Handel set his English verse to very nice catchy tunes, one tends to learn the words and sing along. One fine tenor aria is I'll to the well trod stage anon. The second line being If Johnson's learned sock be on. What? What the hell does that mean? The next line is Or sweetest Shakespeare, Fancy's child, so Johnson refers to Ben Johnson, a younger contemporary of Shakespeare. But his sock? His learned knitted footwear is laying on the stage? So I looked up sock... one definition I didn't know was: 3 a : a shoe worn by actors in Greek and Roman comedy b : comic drama. [there...a costume reference] So Johnson's learned sock is one of his comedieswhich are full of biting satire so there's also an implication toward a punch, smack! See...improved vocab skills and costuming the feet. **Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv000316) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes
Mostly questions. Curious about the other pictures. is there a specific dance for them as I can see that picture 2 is a Scottish sword dance. Picture 10 is Plains, Lakota but what they are doing don't look like anything I have seen. 18- looks like fox trot 19- Lindy hop? 20- Square dance? which was an American spinoff of the cotillion or perhaps a Virginia Reel. 21- (specific) Polka? 17 looks to be Swiss or Norweigian anyone know for sure which? 14, is that Baverian or Ukraine? what is 5? the angle makes it difficult to see, Balinese? Thank you, De -Original Message- I also need help with the photos 18-21. The curator said that these were titled Four Corners of American-born Dances. He told me that photos 18 19 dates represented but I can't recall the dances. I am not really sure that I have the dates correct for photos 20 21. And again, do not recall the dances. I had one hour to photograph the ballroom ceiling because I was running out of time and had to photograph around tour groups. This is a popular area of the mansion and is one of the first areas that the tour groups access. I didn't even have time to take notes. When I was photographing this room, I had a couple of hours before catching my flight home. I spent a week photographing other areas of the museum. Thankfully the photos turned out good. If you are able to answer my questions, please refer to the photo number on the slideshow headers in your answer. The slideshow can be seen at http://www.costumegallery.info/ . Please make sure to use .INFO and not .COM . When you go to the slideshow, make sure to click on the enlarged view...it looks like the number 7 on the right side of the menu. Many, many thanks in advance for your help. Penny Ladnier, ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes
Interestingand beautiful! Number 18...well the quintessential dance of the 20's is the Charlestonby today's recollection. But the Fox Trot was danced more at the time and these dancers don't look like they're doing the Charleston. The couple in number 19 look teens to me so maybe it's a 2-Step or a Rag. However they look like they're waltzing. I don't think the poses in the paintings are very accurate in representing the steps of a particular dance. The Virginia Reel is indeed a colonial dance so that may be what they have in mind for number 20. Now the 19th century couple could be doing anything the Hippy Hippy Shake Shake. From what I know there is a huge surge in dances with the coming of the middle class. Maybe it's some Round Dance, or the Boston Waltz. But of course the Waltz nor the Polka originate in America. **Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv000316) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes
De4ar Penny, Here's a few more guesses to throw in the ring. #4 - looks Aztec or Mayan from the headdresses. #14 - Hungarian or perhaps Polish? (taking it from the woman's red boots) #15 - Greek? #17 - French ? Briitany? #20? 1770-1790 - this is supposed to be depicting AMERICAN dancing?? This is after our Revolution and I don't thing anyone in America would have been looking like this.? Perhaps a European court doing a minuet? Anyway, there's my two cents with guessing. Hope it can help some. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 05:17:48 -0400 From: Penny Ladnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes I need help...please! I am so much out of my comfort zone. I have a slideshow online of the ballroom ceiling of the Ringling's Ca d'Zan Mansion in Sarasota, Florida. The ceiling is called Dancers of the World. There are 17 hand-painted medallions of cultural dancers. I need help with what countries and dances represented in the medallions. These were painted in the 1920s exclusively for the mansion by children's book illustrator / Broadway costume and set designer, William Andrew Willy Pogany. He was also a designer for the Zeigfeld Follies. He was friends with John and Mabel Ringling, the mansion's owner. He painted the medallions in his NYC studio and then applied them to the ballroom ceiling in Florida. I also need help with the photos 18-21. The curator said that these were titled Four Corners of American-born Dances. He told me that photos 18 19 dates represented but I can't recall the dances. I am not really sure that I have the dates correct for photos 20 21. And again, do not recall the dances. If you are able to answer my questions, please refer to the photo number on the slideshow headers in your answer. The slideshow can be seen at http://www.costumegallery.info/ . Please make sure to use .INFO and not .COM . When you go to the slideshow, make sure to click on the enlarged view...it looks like the number 7 on the right side of the menu. Many, many thanks in advance for your help. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] John Adams HBO series
If you look at the show's website, you will see that the costume designer made the New Englanders drab on purpose. Remember that the Adamses lived before the vibrant dyes of the 19th century were invented. The color range for a New England housewife was very limited. Yes, the Adamses did have servants, hired hands who did the heavy farm work. Abigail was also helped by her uncle Cotton Tufts. (I read many letters of the Adamses when I was a senior in high school in the 70's,) I've seen the first two parts. I'm no expert on the period but it's obvious that they've come down with olde tyme disease, trying to make everything look old fashioned. All the costumes are unnaturally drab and dull, and very plain. There's no embroidery, no color, and no texture to anything. I've seen late 18th century clothing in pictures and in person and it is sometimes vibrantly colored, even simple men's suits had color and decoration. Mrs. Adams doesn't seem to own a single ruffle or a flowered dress so common to the period. Even her dinner gown in the first episode was very drab even if it was silk. Servants? What servants? I'd expect the Adams' to have a couple farmhands and at least one girl in the house, but I've seen none. There's no way Abigail is running the farm by herself with 3 small kids. They might have a cow and some chickens, but no way there's a crop coming without help. Despite that I'm actually enjoying the show. It's nice to get period programming even if they do take a few liberties. I don't think this story has been completely butchered. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes
I'm thinking #14 would be more Hungarian than Polish-- I've never seen such aprons on a Polish costume-- But in truth I fear the task will be made that much more difficult by the liberties taken by the artist. For example the red strapless front-lace bustier garment in #14 is sheer invention... My guesses: 1 Greek (ancient) 2 Scottish sword dance 3 Dutch (the shoes!) 4 Aztec or Inca 5 Siam? Balinese? 6 Germany-- those are Lederhosen for sure 7 hmm... they seem to be holding boomerangs... Maori? 8 Siam? Balinese? 9 ancient Egypt 10 American Indian (am useless with further differentiation other than in general Plains) 11 some sort of Far Araby... that's a eunuch if ever I saw one, and those bare breasts and thin girl vs. enormous and slightly sinister man seem right out of Arabian Nights fantasy 12 Japan 13 definitely Russia 14 generic Slavic or Hungarian (not sure Polish would have been depictedas a nation Poland had just come out of over a century of non-existence, though it did briefly exist again as a sovereign nation in the 20s so maybe it was in vogue...) 15 Italy? the tambourine and his breeches 16 Polynesian 17 hmmm... the horizontally striped apron is distinctive, but no idea. *** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/art-gallery *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 4/5/2008 8:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes De4ar Penny, Here's a few more guesses to throw in the ring. #4 - looks Aztec or Mayan from the headdresses. #14 - Hungarian or perhaps Polish? (taking it from the woman's red boots) #15 - Greek? #17 - French ? Briitany? #20? 1770-1790 - this is supposed to be depicting AMERICAN dancing?? This is after our Revolution and I don't thing anyone in America would have been looking like this.? Perhaps a European court doing a minuet? Anyway, there's my two cents with guessing. Hope it can help some. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 05:17:48 -0400 From: Penny Ladnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes I need help...please! I am so much out of my comfort zone. I have a slideshow online of the ballroom ceiling of the Ringling's Ca d'Zan Mansion in Sarasota, Florida. The ceiling is called Dancers of the World. There are 17 hand-painted medallions of cultural dancers. I need help with what countries and dances represented in the medallions. These were painted in the 1920s exclusively for the mansion by children's book illustrator / Broadway costume and set designer, William Andrew Willy Pogany. He was also a designer for the Zeigfeld Follies. He was friends with John and Mabel Ringling, the mansion's owner. He painted the medallions in his NYC studio and then applied them to the ballroom ceiling in Florida. I also need help with the photos 18-21. The curator said that these were titled Four Corners of American-born Dances. He told me that photos 18 19 dates represented but I can't recall the dances. I am not really sure that I have the dates correct for photos 20 21. And again, do not recall the dances. If you are able to answer my questions, please refer to the photo number on the slideshow headers in your answer. The slideshow can be seen at http://www.costumegallery.info/ . Please make sure to use .INFO and not .COM . When you go to the slideshow, make sure to click on the enlarged view...it looks like the number 7 on the right side of the menu. Many, many thanks in advance for your help. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help! Please! Cultural Dancers in Costumes
4- might be Mayan. :) Though as you say the liberties taken could be that 4 is a blend of the 3. The first figure seems to have a Khamahamai (sp?) Hawaiian headdress. After looking at some of my stuff on central American, the seconded figure is Aztec. 5- Ancient Persian or Assyrian? 7- not Maori but possibly New Zealand? I have seen this somewhere associated with Africa or Australia or New Zealand. 8-The turban isn't Siamese which is why I was think Bali. 10- The headdress is Siouan though the Metis have been know to wear them. 11- Eunuch??? I was thinking more Turkish but Arabian works. the heavy guy is playing a flute though I think the turban is a bit to tall. The anorexic dancer doesn't leave much of a clue with her scarves. 16- I was thinking Hawaiian. 17- Reminds me of the Austrian folkwear. De -Original Message- I'm thinking #14 would be more Hungarian than Polish-- I've never seen such aprons on a Polish costume-- But in truth I fear the task will be made that much more difficult by the liberties taken by the artist. For example the red strapless front-lace bustier garment in #14 is sheer invention... My guesses: 1 Greek (ancient) 2 Scottish sword dance 3 Dutch (the shoes!) 4 Aztec or Inca 5 Siam? Balinese? 6 Germany-- those are Lederhosen for sure 7 hmm... they seem to be holding boomerangs... Maori? 8 Siam? Balinese? 9 ancient Egypt 10 American Indian (am useless with further differentiation other than in general Plains) 11 some sort of Far Araby... that's a eunuch if ever I saw one, and those bare breasts and thin girl vs. enormous and slightly sinister man seem right out of Arabian Nights fantasy 12 Japan 13 definitely Russia 14 generic Slavic or Hungarian (not sure Polish would have been depictedas a nation Poland had just come out of over a century of non-existence, though it did briefly exist again as a sovereign nation in the 20s so maybe it was in vogue...) 15 Italy? the tambourine and his breeches 16 Polynesian 17 hmmm... the horizontally striped apron is distinctive, but no idea. http://www.costumegallery.info/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
