[h-cost] Flemish Dress
Hi all, am making this year's edition of the whole flemish dress, this time I am making a Gored Kirtle (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/kirtlepat/gored.html) and an overdress (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/lowerclass/makeflem.html#gown). In the past I had made both under and overdress out of linen, because I was mostly doing summer events. However, this time I am going to make the overdress out of wool, with wool as the lining. Both are fairly light weight, and we will see about how hot it is (i actually think it should be book, at least for non-extremely hot days, and for the really hot days, a couple of pieces of ice down the bodice should do wonders). What I would like advise about would be should I put an addition layer of sturdy linen or something as an underlining on the bodice, or will the just the wool be ok? I know I will need a strip of something sturdy down the front edges, from previous experience with the style, but I have not worked too much in wool, so i don't know how it will go. The gored kirtle that the overdress will go on top of is a fashion fabric and a lining, both of sturdy linen, but not heavyweight. I wear size 16/18 and am about a B cup (about 5'4 and 180 pounds) if that influances your advise. Thanks for all help. jordana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Rabbit - was: What kind of fur would you use for this?** NOT BUN!
In a message dated 3/2/2009 8:28:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, celticredhead2...@yahoo.com writes: Someone told me that rabbit (and cat) are one of the few furs that sheds Well my cat does shed, but I haven't killed it and skinned it.yet. **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?
I had a thought about this -- brain working overnight, you know -- and wanted to add to the list of possibilities. Domestic rabbits are the source of all nearly tanned pelts in the US. Showshoe hares are very different from domestic rabbits - they are larger and they turn white in winter like the ermine. This may be a more historically accurate source of white fur for anyone but the highest nobility. If a garment was lined completely with white fur similar to that portrait, it would make more sense to use the large skins of a hare. I'd suspect that ermine has a much shorter length of hair than shown in that portrait. Even shorter than mink - but someone who has compared both would know better. The only ermine I've ever seen was road kill. Denise B Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?
At 14:01 03/03/2009, you wrote: I had a thought about this -- brain working overnight, you know -- and wanted to add to the list of possibilities. Domestic rabbits are the source of all nearly tanned pelts in the US. Showshoe hares are very different from domestic rabbits - they are larger and they turn white in winter like the ermine. This may be a more historically accurate source of white fur for anyone but the highest nobility. If a garment was lined completely with white fur similar to that portrait, it would make more sense to use the large skins of a hare. I'd suspect that ermine has a much shorter length of hair than shown in that portrait. Even shorter than mink - but someone who has compared both would know better. The only ermine I've ever seen was road kill. Surely the best thing would be to check what fur was available at the time of the portrait? And what was worn by people of the status of the Arnolfinis. Sumptuary laws may be relevant here - I don't know if they had them in Holland. * Veale, Elspeth M.: The English Fur Trade in the Later Middle Ages, 2nd Edition, London Folio Society 2005. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/Special:BookSources/0900952385ISBN 0900952385 This might help - not read it myself yet, or Fur in Dress by Elizabeth Ewing. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?
At 14:01 03/03/2009, you wrote: I had a thought about this -- brain working overnight, you know -- and wanted to add to the list of possibilities. Domestic rabbits are the source of all nearly tanned pelts in the US. Showshoe hares are very different from domestic rabbits - they are larger and they turn white in winter like the ermine. This may be a more historically accurate source of white fur for anyone but the highest nobility. If a garment was lined completely with white fur similar to that portrait, it would make more sense to use the large skins of a hare. I'd suspect that ermine has a much shorter length of hair than shown in that portrait. Even shorter than mink - but someone who has compared both would know better. The only ermine I've ever seen was road kill. re the Arnolfini and sumptuary laws, for Holland (which I wrote in my earlier post) I think maybe read Flanders - my geography is a bit off today. Suzi Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Rabbit - was: What kind of fur would you use for this?
Someone told me that rabbit (and cat) are one of the few furs that sheds and is a terrible mess? Anyone have that experience? Yes, rabbit sheds amazingly. However, it is a relatively cheap fur to learn how to work with fur on - especially if you look for fur coats on eBay or someplace like that ;-) You can get some of the other furs on eBay too; the older coats are inexpensive when compared to new/unused pelts, but fox fur still runs in the hundreds of dollars... *sigh* -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?
Surely the best thing would be to check what fur was available at the time of the portrait? And what was worn by people of the status of the Arnolfinis. Sumptuary laws may be relevant here - I don't know if they had them in Holland. Of course -- but if your options are exactly historically correct = ermine vs. gives an extremely accurate look = hare and the price difference is thousands for ermine vs. hundreds or less for hare... I was just throwing it out there for an option. I wasn't making any judgments about what the costume maker should or should not use. I do know that weasels are small animals with short thick pelts -- shorter than the fur painted in the portrait appears to be. Artistic license or some other fur? I don't know sumptuary laws, but I do know some about the historical aspects of hunting and trapping. Large hares that turn white in the winter are (were) much more available over all of Europe than the in the respective peak times in the US. Denise B ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Rabbit - was: What kind of fur would you use for this?
There are some surprising good faux furs out there as well. They look great and they're durable as all heck. My fake fur cloaks have seen a lot of hard wear and have been worn for decades, with decades left to go. The only thing I've needed to replace in all those years in the lining. Chances are you'll pay between $29-$35 dollars a yard, but they come on huge upholstery rolls. The furs can be easily cut into strips. The main thing is to brush them with your hand against the grain. The good furs will hardly shed at all, if at all. And they're a lot easier to keep clean. For my money, a great value. Just an option Arlys On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 09:28:05 -0500 sunshine.k.buch...@kp.org writes: Someone told me that rabbit (and cat) are one of the few furs that sheds and is a terrible mess? Anyone have that experience? Yes, rabbit sheds amazingly. However, it is a relatively cheap fur to learn how to work with fur on - especially if you look for fur coats on eBay or someplace like that ;-) You can get some of the other furs on eBay too; the older coats are inexpensive when compared to new/unused pelts, but fox fur still runs in the hundreds of dollars... *sigh* -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Click here to save cash and find low rates on auto loans. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTLaWx58jLmKaykUC3RfFTkHlPEqtQlzolqxOnOAVEGPoZ7NNOQ7z6/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?
At 14:58 03/03/2009, you wrote: Surely the best thing would be to check what fur was available at the time of the portrait? And what was worn by people of the status of the Arnolfinis. Sumptuary laws may be relevant here - I don't know if they had them in Holland. Of course -- but if your options are exactly historically correct = ermine vs. gives an extremely accurate look = hare and the price difference is thousands for ermine vs. hundreds or less for hare... I was just throwing it out there for an option. I wasn't making any judgments about what the costume maker should or should not use. I do know that weasels are small animals with short thick pelts -- shorter than the fur painted in the portrait appears to be. Artistic license or some other fur? I don't know sumptuary laws, but I do know some about the historical aspects of hunting and trapping. Large hares that turn white in the winter are (were) much more available over all of Europe than the in the respective peak times in the US. My suggestions was to find out what fur was available, in order to get a modern equivalent, not to spend a fortune on the real thing. (Even when ermine is required for parliamentary robes in England, and peers' robes, it is no longer used, but I believe rabbit is used instead. And one peer recently used fake fur.) Some furs were not supposed to be worn by people under a certain rank, and I am pretty sure that ermine fits that rule. Rabbit, hare, squirrel are all more likely, but I don't have access to my book on fur right now. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Rabbit - was: What kind of fur would you use for this?** NOT BUN!
One thing to look at also as a source is a second hand store or Salvation army clothing area. I have found some old mink or beaver coats there that make great costume additions. I have a beaver coat that looks just like mink. It's soft and delicate but extremely sturdy! It doesn't shed much either. It is an awful coat by the cut of it but the fabric/leather/fur is the reason I bought it...to use as something else. A fur cape maybe one day. Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine From: albert...@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:44:47 -0500 To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rabbit - was: What kind of fur would you use for this?** NOT BUN! In a message dated 3/2/2009 8:28:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, celticredhead2...@yahoo.com writes: Someone told me that rabbit (and cat) are one of the few furs that sheds Well my cat does shed, but I haven't killed it and skinned it.yet. **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] More on fur...
On Tue, 3 Mar 2009, Patricia Dunham wrote: As to the fur in the painting... I have no idea. Looks like a very pale tan to me, not gray at all. Of course there's no telling what the original color was, what with ... 4-500 yrs of varnish on top of it. If anyone can get sufficient detail to actually estimate the length of the fur fibers, that might be some help. Did European squirrels come in white or cream, besides maybe stomachs? (Heraldic vair is both topside gray and tummy white, eh??? -- yes, the European Red Squirrel, wiki says.) Wiki article on the painting alleges the light fur to be ermine or miniver which is the same thing! Ermine is winter coat of the stoat, miniver is stoat. Chimene Miniver is the trimmed bellies of Norwegian grey squirrels, says the book on the medieval fur trade that I don't have the citation for right now. I'm not sure why I said gris earlier, possibly my pre-tea brain was insisting that her fur was gray rather than white. In any case, it's not ermine. No tails/paws and ermine is a lot shorter pile than that. Or it could be fitch, which is basically sable but white. White rabbit is going to be a lot softer and not as dense. [Part of my social distinctions class includes a 'show and fondle' for furs--I have ermine, squirrel, sable, mink, beaver, and rabbit, and I hope to pick up a fitch and an otter at some point.] Jen/pixel/Margaret ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
I think I sent my first edition of this email to a wrong email address. I am sorry if this is a repeat for everyone though. On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 8:39 AM, J A Urbik jaur...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, am making this year's edition of the whole Flemish dress, this time I am making a Gored Kirtle (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/kirtlepat/gored.html) and an overdress (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/lowerclass/makeflem.html#gown). In the past I had made both under and overdress out of linen, because I was mostly doing summer events. However, this time I am going to make the overdress out of wool, with wool as the lining. Both are fairly light weight, and we will see about how hot the dress is (i actually think it should be ok, at least for non-extremely hot days, and for the really hot days, a couple of pieces of ice down the bodice should do wonders). What I would like advise about would be should I put an addition layer of sturdy linen or something as an underlining on the bodice, or will the just the wool be ok? I know I will need a strip of something sturdy down the front edges, from previous experience with the style, but I have not worked too much in wool, so i don't know how it will go. The gored kirtle that the overdress will go on top of is a fashion fabric and a lining, both of sturdy linen, but not heavyweight. I wear size 16/18 and am about a B cup (about 5'4 and 180 pounds) if that influances your advise. Thanks for all help. jordana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?
Snowshoe hares are not legal game animals in Ohio - I'm not sure where else this may be true. Check your local regulations. Patty Showshoe hares are very different from domestic rabbits - they are larger and they turn white in winter like the ermine. This may be a more historically accurate source of white fur for anyone but the highest nobility. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
I interlined my under dress down to about the hip level with sturdy canvas - I also have done this with cotouil. I also interlined the outer gown bodice and put pieces of sprung steel boning down the front edgesworked great! http://www.saragrace.net/saragraceUS/2A_Cost_by_sg.htm Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 11:13:48 -0500 From: jaur...@gmail.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] What would you make out of this fabric?
Someone gave me ten yards of 60 sheer wool. It has a herringbone weave and it's very fine, if I hold it up to the light I can see through it. It's bright turquoise, a color of which I'm not fond due to growing up with my mother's over fondness for it, so I'll probably dye it. What should I make out of this? I really need SCA camping clothes. My current interest areas are, as usual, Elizabethan, Henrician, and 16th century Turkish or Persian, but I'm open to any pre-1600 style that might be flattering and comfortable for a large lady. Suggestions? Margo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What would you make out of this fabric?
Sell it to a Civil War Reenactor to make an amazing sheer dress out of. I've heard of original wool sheers but never seen a fabric that I could actually make one out of. Laura If we continue to forget our past we will continue to repeat it over and over and over... From: li...@margospatterns.com Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:18:41 -0800 To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] What would you make out of this fabric? Someone gave me ten yards of 60 sheer wool. It has a herringbone weave and it's very fine, if I hold it up to the light I can see through it. It's bright turquoise, a color of which I'm not fond due to growing up with my mother's over fondness for it, so I'll probably dye it. What should I make out of this? I really need SCA camping clothes. My current interest areas are, as usual, Elizabethan, Henrician, and 16th century Turkish or Persian, but I'm open to any pre-1600 style that might be flattering and comfortable for a large lady. Suggestions? Margo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?
I looked up Jean Hunnisett because I remember her saying she had made the Arnolfini dress. She includes the dress in Period Costume for Stage and Screen: Medieval - 1500 but doesn't say what fur she used. You might be interested in her comments, bearing in mind (as she always said) that her costumes are for stage and TV. Viv. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What would you make out of this fabric?
On Mar 3, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Laura Chambers wrote: Sell it to a Civil War Reenactor to make an amazing sheer dress out of. I thought of that, but weren't they usually light colors? Margo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What would you make out of this fabric?
In a message dated 3/3/2009 1:32:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cha...@hotmail.com writes: Sell it to a Civil War Reenactor to make an amazing sheer dress out of. I've heard of original wool sheers but never seen a fabric that I could actually make one out of. I was thinking the exact same thing. Or a 19-Teens gown or draped suit But getting back to pre-1600 what about some Gothic smocked over-thingie, y'know, with huge long knotted sleeves. The color of the undergown could make the turquoise work. **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Arnolfi gown - Hunnisett
I have this book and have looked at it for reference. I am fiddling right now with the box pleat decorations...wish me luck! I wonder how many deep there are. That sleeve looks wicked heavy and the wool I have, though fine, is heavy already. Sg From: viv.watk...@virgin.net To: h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:46:58 + Subject: Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this? I looked up Jean Hunnisett because I remember her saying she had made the Arnolfini dress. She includes the dress in Period Costume for Stage and Screen: Medieval - 1500 but doesn't say what fur she used. You might be interested in her comments, bearing in mind (as she always said) that her costumes are for stage and TV. Viv. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
Here are some dress diaries that might help give ideas. http://claresdressdiaries.blogspot.com/2007/08/flemish-dress-c-1570.html http://juliesflemishdress.blogspot.com/ http://www.festiveattyre.com/gallery/flemish/flemish.html late period http://web.comhem.se/~u31138198/diary1.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Breast Cancer Awareness: Quilted Bras
This was sent to me by a friend, and I thought you guys would appreciate it as well. Not exactly historical (sorry!) but certainly important and worth sharing. ::Linda:: Members of Quilters of South Carolina have created one-of-a-kind bras for Breast Cancer Awareness. The exhibit consists of 49 original works of art which are unique, entertaining, humorous, and beautiful to make the public aware of breast cancer, to memorialize those lost to the disease, and to honor survivors. Be sure to click on page 2 to see the entire collection. http://www.quiltersofsc.org/artfullbras/artfullbras.htm ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Arnolfi gown - Hunnisett
Think of high fashion in about all time periods as suffering for one's social class, whether the total ensemble is heavy(think of it as weight-lifting), constricting(you can't eat, breathe, or hardly move, or move in relative comfort in only a certain way), or revealing(better have or create the body type to wear said ensemble )or all three put together. Keira Knightly said the high-plumed wig complete she wore in the Duchess alone was around 10 pounds. That's why if you could afford to wear such gear, you had to have servants! Today it is fashion that demands a size of no more than 2 and the ability to tetter along in four inch heels and do it all without servants(unless you are filthy rich). I thought this dress demanded a very fine, rather lightweight material in order to make the pleating work. A good rabbit fur should work--most sumputuary laws wouldn't even permit rabbit fur on clothing for those below a certain rank and or income and surprisingly the lower orders couldn't even legally trim clothing with bunny, let alone line a winter cloak. Apparently, you could catch Mr or Mrs Bunny, eat either, but you better sell the pelts to your betters on the social scale. Cindy Abel -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:21 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Arnolfi gown - Hunnisett I have this book and have looked at it for reference. I am fiddling right now with the box pleat decorations...wish me luck! I wonder how many deep there are. That sleeve looks wicked heavy and the wool I have, though fine, is heavy already. Sg From: viv.watk...@virgin.net To: h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:46:58 + Subject: Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this? I looked up Jean Hunnisett because I remember her saying she had made the Arnolfini dress. She includes the dress in Period Costume for Stage and Screen: Medieval - 1500 but doesn't say what fur she used. You might be interested in her comments, bearing in mind (as she always said) that her costumes are for stage and TV. Viv. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Breast Cancer Awareness: Quilted Bras
It'll be history some day! Its is very cool - what fun! Thanks for sharing! From: vm...@cox.net To: h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 17:28:35 -0500 Subject: [h-cost] Breast Cancer Awareness: Quilted Bras This was sent to me by a friend, and I thought you guys would appreciate it as well. Not exactly historical (sorry!) but certainly important and worth sharing. ::Linda:: Members of Quilters of South Carolina have created one-of-a-kind bras for Breast Cancer Awareness. The exhibit consists of 49 original works of art which are unique, entertaining, humorous, and beautiful to make the public aware of breast cancer, to memorialize those lost to the disease, and to honor survivors. Be sure to click on page 2 to see the entire collection. http://www.quiltersofsc.org/artfullbras/artfullbras.htm ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Arnolfi gown - fabric
Hmmm, I think what I have is a very fine twill wool suiting. I just washed a four inch square and only got 7/8 shrinkage (only along the length). I am a little worried that it won't be fuzzy enoughit looks so soft in the picture. This, even when pinked maintains it's structure very well. I washed the sample in hot water and dried it on high heatI know its wool...I burn tested itbut it just wants to look very neat and modern... Ah! Sg I thought this dress demanded a very fine, rather lightweight material in order to make the pleating work. Cindy Abel ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] What would you make out of this fabric?
You can make a nice folded package and send it on to me.. I would LOVE to make a few Greco/Roman outfits out of it, or a lined fitted kirtle dress, or a Polish style Russian Sarafan, or or or I can dig through my stash and find something to trade - if you want? Katheryne who LOVES turquoise!!! Someone gave me ten yards of 60 sheer wool. It has a herringbone weave and it's very fine, if I hold it up to the light I can see through it. It's bright turquoise, a color of which I'm not fond due to growing up with my mother's over fondness for it, so I'll probably dye it. What should I make out of this? I really need SCA camping clothes. My current interest areas are, as usual, Elizabethan, Henrician, and 16th century Turkish or Persian, but I'm open to any pre-1600 style that might be flattering and comfortable for a large lady. Suggestions? Margo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
Oh, I've looked at them. though thanks for pointing them out. i had mostly decided (on this one dress) to not interline it (mostly for heat issues) and was hoping someone else would say Oh, no, you probably don't need to underline it... Drea, on her website, does mention that there are pictorial examples where the bodice wrinkles and such, and I think this one will be one such. I just usually go for the very straitlaced look(even in real life) so I am very nervous. On the subject of what Drea says. I seem to have lost my copy of the book she published, and am looking for another one used since she is no longer publishing it. Does anyone who is no longer using their copy willing to sell theirs? On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 4:52 PM, otsisto otsi...@socket.net wrote: Here are some dress diaries that might help give ideas. http://claresdressdiaries.blogspot.com/2007/08/flemish-dress-c-1570.html http://juliesflemishdress.blogspot.com/ http://www.festiveattyre.com/gallery/flemish/flemish.html late period http://web.comhem.se/~u31138198/diary1.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
On Mar 3, 2009, at 8:39 AM, J A Urbik wrote: What I would like advise about would be should I put an addition layer of sturdy linen or something as an underlining on the bodice, or will the just the wool be ok? Hopefully the kirtle will be sturdy enough to hold you up, and the overgown will just lay on top of it. Mine is two layers of wool with nothing in between (and it's reversible!). The weight of the skirt keeps the bodice pulled fairly flat. http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/Flemish7.html I know I will need a strip of something sturdy down the front edges, from previous experience with the style, but I have not worked too much in wool, so i don't know how it will go. I put plastic boning (not period, but works well) just in the edges, and it works just fine. I made the seam allowances into a casing so I didn't have to stitch through the outside. It does help to have something stiff so the lacing doesn't buckle the edges when you tighten it. Hypothetically it shouldn't be a problem, what with the weight of the skirt pulling things downward and the sturdiness of the kirtle underneath smoothing everything, but if you're not entering it in a competition, it's probably better to cheat a little and be safe. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
I'm curious why you decided to line with wool as well as use wool for the top fabric? Most of the extant garments I can think of (and, admittedly, my memory on this is not spectacular!) are lined with linen. I made an overgown of this sort a few years back, with the outside a mid-to-lightweight wool and the lining linen; I'm pretty sure I did not use an interlining of any sort. I it cut away in the front quite a bit, so it really doesn't come together much past the shoulder straps. It's very comfy, although it does wrinkle some. That doesn't really bother me much - the ease of movement as I chase my 3-year-old is much more important! Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence, Bristol Renn Faire * -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of J A Urbik Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:40 AM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Flemish Dress Hi all, am making this year's edition of the whole flemish dress, this time I am making a Gored Kirtle (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/kirtlepat/gored.html) and an overdress (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/lowerclass/makeflem.html#gown). In the past I had made both under and overdress out of linen, because I was mostly doing summer events. However, this time I am going to make the overdress out of wool, with wool as the lining. Both are fairly light weight, and we will see about how hot it is (i actually think it should be book, at least for non-extremely hot days, and for the really hot days, a couple of pieces of ice down the bodice should do wonders). What I would like advise about would be should I put an addition layer of sturdy linen or something as an underlining on the bodice, or will the just the wool be ok? I know I will need a strip of something sturdy down the front edges, from previous experience with the style, but I have not worked too much in wool, so i don't know how it will go. The gored kirtle that the overdress will go on top of is a fashion fabric and a lining, both of sturdy linen, but not heavyweight. I wear size 16/18 and am about a B cup (about 5'4 and 180 pounds) if that influances your advise. Thanks for all help. jordana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
You didn't ask me, but since mine is also wool lined with wool, I'll send my answer too. I had two great pieces of wool, and I wanted it to be warm and reversible. I only wear it to cold-weather events with the woolen partlet on top and woolen sleeves pinned on. With my head covered and a pair of gloves (or my hands tucked into the overskirt), I'm toasty for long periods down to around 40 degrees F. Melanie Schuessler On Mar 3, 2009, at 9:26 PM, Rebecca Schmitt wrote: I'm curious why you decided to line with wool as well as use wool for the top fabric? Most of the extant garments I can think of (and, admittedly, my memory on this is not spectacular!) are lined with linen. I made an overgown of this sort a few years back, with the outside a mid-to-lightweight wool and the lining linen; I'm pretty sure I did not use an interlining of any sort. I it cut away in the front quite a bit, so it really doesn't come together much past the shoulder straps. It's very comfy, although it does wrinkle some. That doesn't really bother me much - the ease of movement as I chase my 3-year-old is much more important! Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence, Bristol Renn Faire * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
Thanks, I can certainly see the usefulness of that construction! My outfits are almost exclusively for high summer, where linen is a good thing - not only from a heat standpoint, but also just a weight issue. Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence, Bristol Renn Faire * -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress You didn't ask me, but since mine is also wool lined with wool, I'll send my answer too. I had two great pieces of wool, and I wanted it to be warm and reversible. I only wear it to cold-weather events with the woolen partlet on top and woolen sleeves pinned on. With my head covered and a pair of gloves (or my hands tucked into the overskirt), I'm toasty for long periods down to around 40 degrees F. Melanie Schuessler On Mar 3, 2009, at 9:26 PM, Rebecca Schmitt wrote: I'm curious why you decided to line with wool as well as use wool for the top fabric? Most of the extant garments I can think of (and, admittedly, my memory on this is not spectacular!) are lined with linen. I made an overgown of this sort a few years back, with the outside a mid-to-lightweight wool and the lining linen; I'm pretty sure I did not use an interlining of any sort. I it cut away in the front quite a bit, so it really doesn't come together much past the shoulder straps. It's very comfy, although it does wrinkle some. That doesn't really bother me much - the ease of movement as I chase my 3-year-old is much more important! Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence, Bristol Renn Faire * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
Were you not wanting to not line it for heat reasons or sewing reasons? If you were wanting a cooler outfit you might try tropical weight wool and line with linen for the outer piece and make the kirtle out of linen, only lining the bodice. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
Off topic... but This is the first time I noticed your name is the same forward as backwards. I like that. It's unique. Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine From: otsi...@socket.net To: h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 22:01:20 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress Were you not wanting to not line it for heat reasons or sewing reasons? If you were wanting a cooler outfit you might try tropical weight wool and line with linen for the outer piece and make the kirtle out of linen, only lining the bodice. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] More on fur...
the trimmed bellies of Norwegian grey squirrels Sounds like a dish in a fancy restaurant, -C. This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Rabbit - was: What kind of fur would you use for this?** NOT BUN!
Someone told me that rabbit (and cat) are one of the few furs that sheds I used rabbit(s) for a cape over my Arthurian cavalry armour many years back (I figure they did not just kill dragons) and it is still in one piece, no shedding. Tanning quality perhaps? I dunno but after 15 years I am still able to handle it roughly, -C. PS: Maybe it was a Python rabbit? This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Rabbit !
I had several rabbit coats as my main winter coats during the years I was living Michigan and Chicago and walking alot. Fur would keep out the wind like nothing else but I couldn't afford anything better than rabbit. I never had a shedding problem but rabbit does wear out faster than other furs - after a couple months, I would have a bald spot on my shoulder where my purse was rubbing all the fur off. I think rabbit is fine for trimming SCA garments. Just make sure you can take it off easily - real fur doesn't go in the washing machine or even to the dry cleaners. Janet ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
