Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[Nordtorp-Madson, Michelle A.]

After a couple of surgeries I now wear a compression camisole most of the time, 
except to exercise. They really are comfortable if done right.


From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] on behalf of 
Cactus [shirleyjho...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 4:11 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

I'm thinking maybe not tie the corsets so snugly.  They are actually very 
comfortable to wear.  Or look into corded stays rather than boned stays.


Cactus
Apache Junction, AZ


From: Kathleen Norvell 
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians



Aylwen,
For Victorian, maybe the musicians could adopt "Aesthetic" dress, which 
requires no corsets.

Just a thought.

Kathleen


-Original Message-
From: Aylwen Gardiner-Garden 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Mon, Oct 21, 2013 12:57 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians


I'm thinking about Victorian fashion here. Are there any pictures of women
itting down playing music? I've seen women corsetted when standing up
laying the violin, but how did they manage playing the piano? Or are my
usicians complaining too much?
'm right at the beginning in my research so far.
any thanks,
ylwen

n 21 October 2013 15:48, Elizabeth Jones wrote:
> Hi Aylwen,
What have you tried so far? If we know what's already been tried there
won't need to be any re-inventing of the wheel. For anything pre-1600
you are fairly safe to skip boning for anyone who isn't extremely high
fashion (and musicians paid to perform for a ball definitely weren't
high fashion)
Elizabeth

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
 wrote:
> Dear Friends
> Our dance group prides itself on wearing historically correct gowns and
> undergarments for our dance performances, but it is not comfortable for
our
> pianist and other musicians. I am exploring ways I can bone the bodices
of
> the gowns and still give sitting-down musicians breathing space - but
still
> have the garments look close-to-accurate. Can anyone offer me any advice?
> We costume from 1450 through to 1900 - all styles along the way.
> Many thanks,
> Aylwen
>
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Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*




*Jane Austen Festival Australia  *
Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy

John Gardiner-Garden's Historic Dance book
eries


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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[Cactus]

I'm thinking maybe not tie the corsets so snugly.  They are actually very 
comfortable to wear.  Or look into corded stays rather than boned stays.


Cactus
Apache Junction, AZ
  

From: Kathleen Norvell 
To: h-cost...@indra.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians



Aylwen,
For Victorian, maybe the musicians could adopt "Aesthetic" dress, which 
requires no corsets. 

Just a thought.

Kathleen


-Original Message-
From: Aylwen Gardiner-Garden 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Mon, Oct 21, 2013 12:57 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians


I'm thinking about Victorian fashion here. Are there any pictures of women
itting down playing music? I've seen women corsetted when standing up
laying the violin, but how did they manage playing the piano? Or are my
usicians complaining too much?
'm right at the beginning in my research so far.
any thanks,
ylwen

n 21 October 2013 15:48, Elizabeth Jones wrote:
> Hi Aylwen,
What have you tried so far? If we know what's already been tried there
won't need to be any re-inventing of the wheel. For anything pre-1600
you are fairly safe to skip boning for anyone who isn't extremely high
fashion (and musicians paid to perform for a ball definitely weren't
high fashion)
Elizabeth

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
 wrote:
> Dear Friends
> Our dance group prides itself on wearing historically correct gowns and
> undergarments for our dance performances, but it is not comfortable for
our
> pianist and other musicians. I am exploring ways I can bone the bodices
of
> the gowns and still give sitting-down musicians breathing space - but
still
> have the garments look close-to-accurate. Can anyone offer me any advice?
> We costume from 1450 through to 1900 - all styles along the way.
> Many thanks,
> Aylwen
>
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-- 
Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*




*Jane Austen Festival Australia  *
Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy

John Gardiner-Garden's Historic Dance book
eries 


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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[Galadriel]

I agree with the comment about having the musicians take a breath while 
finishing your lacing.  I'm also intrigued by the idea of 3 laces to really 
control where the corset is tight.

As for the corsets themselves, I am of the opinion that corsets are necessary 
to get the correct shape (and bust placement) and the clothes can look rather 
frumpy and "Simplicity" without them.  Working in theatre, this is something we 
have to deal with a lot.  We like to build the side panels out of 1 or 2 layers 
of power net, with a vertical bone in the panels so it doesn't collapse on the 
side.   That still allows a lot of sideways breathing movement and retains the 
proper period shape.  Use spiral bones so there is flexible support.  Don't 
worry if they kink - they will kink in the shape of the body.  When I have 
built ballet bodices, we built the side panels on the bias, but that doesn't 
allow as much stretch as power net, and ballerinas breathe differently than 
either actors or musicians.  You can't tell a musician to breathe like a 
ballerina - that isn't appropriate for the amount of support needed to play a 
wind instrument.

As for sitting, finding and taking an appropriate stool to your gigs would be 
helpful.  Chairs that are too short are hard to sit in with a corset.

Let us know how it goes!


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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[albertcat]

Greetings...


When corseting opera singers (who some actually like their corsets for the 
"proper posture" it gives them) we would have then take a deep breath before 
the final lacingand laced them up snug, but not tight, while they held 
their breath. When they do let their breath out, the corset is not as snug as 
it "should" be for a normal activity, but the shape is there and, again, the 
posture. The musicians cannot slouch in their seats but must sit up straight. 
Sitting in a corset has been possible for centuries now... even in a bustle.
 
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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[Kathleen Norvell]

Here are some web sites for the Aesthetic clothing movement. The late La Mode 
Bagatelle had a pattern pack for an Aesthetic tea gown. I don't know if it's 
still available. I'm sure musicians would be very comfortable in these since 
they are loose.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aesthetic+dress+movement+victorian&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=j2NlUvDIDI-o4AOhlIFw&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=872
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistic_Dress_movement

Kathleen 




-Original Message-
From: Bonnie Booker 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Mon, Oct 21, 2013 9:00 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians


Corsets weren't worn in early Tudor times. I research 1490 give or take 20
ears.

n Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Carol Kocian  wrote:
>
 On Oct 21, 2013, at 5:15 AM, michaeljdeib...@gmail.com wrote:

> Elastic panels could help bit perhaps adapting the style would be better.
> A mesh or sports corset might provide enough give while also providing
> enough support for the period.
>

 The problem there, though, is that the gown worn over a corset does not
 have any give to it. The corset creates a smooth line for the gown to fit.
 If the corset stretches, the gown would also need a stretch section or a
 pleat to handle it. Is there a 19thC version of a Watteau back for a gown?

 -Carol

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Re: [h-cost] Clothing of the Future, 2000

[Monica Spence]

Thanks for the video. I'm going to share it with my Costume History class.
Monica

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Kim Baird
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 12:57 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing of the Future, 2000

That was hilarious! They did get the see-through mesh right.
kim

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of mhprobe...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:20 AM
To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Clothing of the Future, 2000

This was fun - anything look familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9eAiy0IGBI

Melissa Roberts
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Re: [h-cost] Clothing of the Future, 2000

[Kim Baird]

That was hilarious! They did get the see-through mesh right.
kim

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of mhprobe...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:20 AM
To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Clothing of the Future, 2000

This was fun - anything look familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9eAiy0IGBI

Melissa Roberts
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[h-cost] Clothing of the Future, 2000

[mhprobe...@gmail.com]

This was fun - anything look familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9eAiy0IGBI

Melissa Roberts
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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[Bonnie Booker]

Corsets weren't worn in early Tudor times. I research 1490 give or take 20
years.


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Carol Kocian  wrote:

>
> On Oct 21, 2013, at 5:15 AM, michaeljdeib...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Elastic panels could help bit perhaps adapting the style would be better.
>> A mesh or sports corset might provide enough give while also providing
>> enough support for the period.
>>
>
> The problem there, though, is that the gown worn over a corset does not
> have any give to it. The corset creates a smooth line for the gown to fit.
> If the corset stretches, the gown would also need a stretch section or a
> pleat to handle it. Is there a 19thC version of a Watteau back for a gown?
>
> -Carol
>
> __**_
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> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/**listinfo/h-costume
>



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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[Carol Kocian]

On Oct 21, 2013, at 5:15 AM, michaeljdeib...@gmail.com wrote:
Elastic panels could help bit perhaps adapting the style would be  
better. A mesh or sports corset might provide enough give while  
also providing enough support for the period.


The problem there, though, is that the gown worn over a corset does  
not have any give to it. The corset creates a smooth line for the  
gown to fit. If the corset stretches, the gown would also need a  
stretch section or a pleat to handle it. Is there a 19thC version of  
a Watteau back for a gown?


-Carol
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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[hippy_dippy_dancer]

I have some experience with this. The first bit is probably not helpful in the 
short term. It is the fact that ballet dancers are taught to breath long rather 
than out so their ribs do not expand too much to fight the.  Canvas corset like 
bodices for classic costumes.
The second bit might be much more helpful. As a thatrical dresser. I was taught 
to lace singers into corsets with at least 2 if not 3 different cords. This 
keeps ech section at a different tension , appropriate to your personal needs. 
Top keeps the breasts in line with te neckline. A second lacing cord is just on 
the rib section and adjusted so as to be snug but permit breathing , the bottom 
bit or third cord is adjusted to keep the corset from slipping down the hips.
Hope this helps
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: Kate Bunting 
Sender: h-costume-boun...@indra.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:32:00 
To: 
Reply-To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

I remember having a discussion about this on the list some years ago (10+?)
after I had nearly fainted while playing the shawm in a 17th century corset
in a sunny window. I was told that a corset should not be laced so tightly
as to restrict your breathing. Of course I'm aware that corsets of later
periods extend below the waist, increasing the problem. Having once worn an
18th century corset, I've often wondered how the lady singers of Handel's
time managed. Of course, as Maggie says, they were used to it.

Kate Bunting
Retired librarian & 17th-century reenactor.
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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[Susan Data-Samak]

Maggie said :



Ladies rode their horses "to hounds" (fox hunting) which is a vigorous 
activity.  They did this sidesaddle.  I have friends who do this, today.  Their 
corsets were cut for the job: meaning the hip portion was curved to accommodate 
the position of the body riding sidesaddle and/or elastic material was inserted 
for ease of motion. I have "elasticated panels" in my own corset for riding my 
horse astride (not sidesaddle) in parades. As with anything, it takes practice 
to adjust the corset for comfort yet still get the fashionable "line" of the 
period.

A quick look on google found this: 
http://ridingaside.blogspot.com/2011/06/karen-wright.html  scroll down and read 
her description of new riding corset construction.

Susan


On Oct 21, 2013, at 3:04 AM, Maggie Koenig wrote:

> I've costumed singers and dancers before and if you take their chest 
> measurements with them at rest and them at a full breath there can be a 
> rather large difference. Their corsets are likely made for a resting breath 
> measurement so it is restricting them from taking as deep a breath as they 
> are used to when they play. Actual performers in the Victorian era were 
> corseted their entire lives and were trained to get the needed deep breaths 
> while corseted. 
> 
> What you will need to do is either find a dress style that can work without 
> the corset or you will want to create a corset that incorporates elastic 
> panels and/or elastic instead of a woven lacing string. The elastic will 
> stretch as they breath and move allowing them their full range. 
> 
> Maggie Koenig
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 21, 2013, at 1:58 AM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I get told by musicians that they can't breathe - wind players and singers
>> can't get enough breath.
>> Cheers,
>> Aylwen
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21 October 2013 16:42, Kim Baird  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's perfectly possible to sit in a Victorian corset. Victorians did it all
>>> the time. It does have to fit correctly, however.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:55 PM
>>> To: Historical Costume
>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians
>>> 
>>> I'm thinking about Victorian fashion here. Are there any pictures of women
>>> sitting down playing music? I've seen women corsetted when standing up
>>> playing the violin, but how did they manage playing the piano? Or are my
>>> musicians complaining too much?
>>> I'm right at the beginning in my research so far.
>>> Many thanks,
>>> Aylwen
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 21 October 2013 15:48, Elizabeth Jones
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Aylwen,
 What have you tried so far? If we know what's already been tried there
 won't need to be any re-inventing of the wheel. For anything pre-1600
 you are fairly safe to skip boning for anyone who isn't extremely high
 fashion (and musicians paid to perform for a ball definitely weren't
 high fashion) Elizabeth
 
 On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
  wrote:
> Dear Friends
> Our dance group prides itself on wearing historically correct gowns
> and undergarments for our dance performances, but it is not
> comfortable for
 our
> pianist and other musicians. I am exploring ways I can bone the
> bodices
 of
> the gowns and still give sitting-down musicians breathing space -
> but
 still
> have the garments look close-to-accurate. Can anyone offer me any
>>> advice?
> We costume from 1450 through to 1900 - all styles along the way.
> Many thanks,
> Aylwen
 ___
 h-costume mailing list
 h-costume@mail.indra.com
 http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *
>>> 
>>> *Jane Austen Festival Australia  *
>>> *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy<
>>> http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/>
>>> *
>>> *John Gardiner-Garden's Historic Dance book
>>> series
>>> *
>>> ___
>>> h-costume mailing list
>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> h-costume mailing list
>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> 
>> *Jane Austen Festival Australia  *
>> *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy
>> *
>> *John Gardiner-Garden's Historic Dance book
>> series
>> *
>> ___
>> h-costume mailing lis

Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[Kate Bunting]

I remember having a discussion about this on the list some years ago (10+?)
after I had nearly fainted while playing the shawm in a 17th century corset
in a sunny window. I was told that a corset should not be laced so tightly
as to restrict your breathing. Of course I'm aware that corsets of later
periods extend below the waist, increasing the problem. Having once worn an
18th century corset, I've often wondered how the lady singers of Handel's
time managed. Of course, as Maggie says, they were used to it.

Kate Bunting
Retired librarian & 17th-century reenactor.
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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[michaeljdeib...@gmail.com]

Sorry, hit the send button too soon! 

Elastic panels could help bit perhaps adapting the style would be better. A 
mesh or sports corset might provide enough give while also providing enough 
support for the period. 

Lastly, would be a style that would not need a corset. Perhaps the light boning 
of the dress bodice would be enough? 

Michael Deibert
OAS AAS LLS
Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 21, 2013, at 3:04, Maggie Koenig  wrote:
> 
> I've costumed singers and dancers before and if you take their chest 
> measurements with them at rest and them at a full breath there can be a 
> rather large difference. Their corsets are likely made for a resting breath 
> measurement so it is restricting them from taking as deep a breath as they 
> are used to when they play. Actual performers in the Victorian era were 
> corseted their entire lives and were trained to get the needed deep breaths 
> while corseted. 
> 
> What you will need to do is either find a dress style that can work without 
> the corset or you will want to create a corset that incorporates elastic 
> panels and/or elastic instead of a woven lacing string. The elastic will 
> stretch as they breath and move allowing them their full range. 
> 
> Maggie Koenig
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 21, 2013, at 1:58 AM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I get told by musicians that they can't breathe - wind players and singers
>> can't get enough breath.
>> Cheers,
>> Aylwen
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21 October 2013 16:42, Kim Baird  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's perfectly possible to sit in a Victorian corset. Victorians did it all
>>> the time. It does have to fit correctly, however.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:55 PM
>>> To: Historical Costume
>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians
>>> 
>>> I'm thinking about Victorian fashion here. Are there any pictures of women
>>> sitting down playing music? I've seen women corsetted when standing up
>>> playing the violin, but how did they manage playing the piano? Or are my
>>> musicians complaining too much?
>>> I'm right at the beginning in my research so far.
>>> Many thanks,
>>> Aylwen
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 21 October 2013 15:48, Elizabeth Jones
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Aylwen,
 What have you tried so far? If we know what's already been tried there
 won't need to be any re-inventing of the wheel. For anything pre-1600
 you are fairly safe to skip boning for anyone who isn't extremely high
 fashion (and musicians paid to perform for a ball definitely weren't
 high fashion) Elizabeth
 
 On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
  wrote:
> Dear Friends
> Our dance group prides itself on wearing historically correct gowns
> and undergarments for our dance performances, but it is not
> comfortable for
 our
> pianist and other musicians. I am exploring ways I can bone the
> bodices
 of
> the gowns and still give sitting-down musicians breathing space -
> but
 still
> have the garments look close-to-accurate. Can anyone offer me any
>>> advice?
> We costume from 1450 through to 1900 - all styles along the way.
> Many thanks,
> Aylwen
 ___
 h-costume mailing list
 h-costume@mail.indra.com
 http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *
>>> 
>>> *Jane Austen Festival Australia  *
>>> *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy<
>>> http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/>
>>> *
>>> *John Gardiner-Garden's Historic Dance book
>>> series
>>> *
>>> ___
>>> h-costume mailing list
>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> h-costume mailing list
>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> 
>> *Jane Austen Festival Australia  *
>> *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy
>> *
>> *John Gardiner-Garden's Historic Dance book
>> series
>> *
>> ___
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> ___
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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[michaeljdeib...@gmail.com]

Another huge factor is whether you'd musicians are they rehearsing in their 
corsets or just wearing them for performances? It is fully capable to sing of 
play an instrument corseted but they MUST rehearse and practice doing so. 

That aside, elastic panels would help, 

Michael Deibert
OAS AAS LLS
Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 21, 2013, at 3:04, Maggie Koenig  wrote:
> 
> I've costumed singers and dancers before and if you take their chest 
> measurements with them at rest and them at a full breath there can be a 
> rather large difference. Their corsets are likely made for a resting breath 
> measurement so it is restricting them from taking as deep a breath as they 
> are used to when they play. Actual performers in the Victorian era were 
> corseted their entire lives and were trained to get the needed deep breaths 
> while corseted. 
> 
> What you will need to do is either find a dress style that can work without 
> the corset or you will want to create a corset that incorporates elastic 
> panels and/or elastic instead of a woven lacing string. The elastic will 
> stretch as they breath and move allowing them their full range. 
> 
> Maggie Koenig
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 21, 2013, at 1:58 AM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I get told by musicians that they can't breathe - wind players and singers
>> can't get enough breath.
>> Cheers,
>> Aylwen
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21 October 2013 16:42, Kim Baird  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's perfectly possible to sit in a Victorian corset. Victorians did it all
>>> the time. It does have to fit correctly, however.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:55 PM
>>> To: Historical Costume
>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians
>>> 
>>> I'm thinking about Victorian fashion here. Are there any pictures of women
>>> sitting down playing music? I've seen women corsetted when standing up
>>> playing the violin, but how did they manage playing the piano? Or are my
>>> musicians complaining too much?
>>> I'm right at the beginning in my research so far.
>>> Many thanks,
>>> Aylwen
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 21 October 2013 15:48, Elizabeth Jones
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Aylwen,
 What have you tried so far? If we know what's already been tried there
 won't need to be any re-inventing of the wheel. For anything pre-1600
 you are fairly safe to skip boning for anyone who isn't extremely high
 fashion (and musicians paid to perform for a ball definitely weren't
 high fashion) Elizabeth
 
 On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
  wrote:
> Dear Friends
> Our dance group prides itself on wearing historically correct gowns
> and undergarments for our dance performances, but it is not
> comfortable for
 our
> pianist and other musicians. I am exploring ways I can bone the
> bodices
 of
> the gowns and still give sitting-down musicians breathing space -
> but
 still
> have the garments look close-to-accurate. Can anyone offer me any
>>> advice?
> We costume from 1450 through to 1900 - all styles along the way.
> Many thanks,
> Aylwen
 ___
 h-costume mailing list
 h-costume@mail.indra.com
 http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *
>>> 
>>> *Jane Austen Festival Australia  *
>>> *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy<
>>> http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/>
>>> *
>>> *John Gardiner-Garden's Historic Dance book
>>> series
>>> *
>>> ___
>>> h-costume mailing list
>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> h-costume mailing list
>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> 
>> *Jane Austen Festival Australia  *
>> *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy
>> *
>> *John Gardiner-Garden's Historic Dance book
>> series
>> *
>> ___
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> ___
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[Maggie Koenig]

I've costumed singers and dancers before and if you take their chest 
measurements with them at rest and them at a full breath there can be a rather 
large difference. Their corsets are likely made for a resting breath 
measurement so it is restricting them from taking as deep a breath as they are 
used to when they play. Actual performers in the Victorian era were corseted 
their entire lives and were trained to get the needed deep breaths while 
corseted. 

What you will need to do is either find a dress style that can work without the 
corset or you will want to create a corset that incorporates elastic panels 
and/or elastic instead of a woven lacing string. The elastic will stretch as 
they breath and move allowing them their full range. 

Maggie Koenig

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 21, 2013, at 1:58 AM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden  
> wrote:
> 
> I get told by musicians that they can't breathe - wind players and singers
> can't get enough breath.
> Cheers,
> Aylwen
> 
> 
>> On 21 October 2013 16:42, Kim Baird  wrote:
>> 
>> It's perfectly possible to sit in a Victorian corset. Victorians did it all
>> the time. It does have to fit correctly, however.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
>> Behalf Of Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
>> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:55 PM
>> To: Historical Costume
>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians
>> 
>> I'm thinking about Victorian fashion here. Are there any pictures of women
>> sitting down playing music? I've seen women corsetted when standing up
>> playing the violin, but how did they manage playing the piano? Or are my
>> musicians complaining too much?
>> I'm right at the beginning in my research so far.
>> Many thanks,
>> Aylwen
>> 
>> 
>> On 21 October 2013 15:48, Elizabeth Jones
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Aylwen,
>>> What have you tried so far? If we know what's already been tried there
>>> won't need to be any re-inventing of the wheel. For anything pre-1600
>>> you are fairly safe to skip boning for anyone who isn't extremely high
>>> fashion (and musicians paid to perform for a ball definitely weren't
>>> high fashion) Elizabeth
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
>>>  wrote:
 Dear Friends
 Our dance group prides itself on wearing historically correct gowns
 and undergarments for our dance performances, but it is not
 comfortable for
>>> our
 pianist and other musicians. I am exploring ways I can bone the
 bodices
>>> of
 the gowns and still give sitting-down musicians breathing space -
 but
>>> still
 have the garments look close-to-accurate. Can anyone offer me any
>> advice?
 We costume from 1450 through to 1900 - all styles along the way.
 Many thanks,
 Aylwen
>>> ___
>>> h-costume mailing list
>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> 
>> *Jane Austen Festival Australia  *
>> *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy<
>> http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/>
>> *
>> *John Gardiner-Garden's Historic Dance book
>> series
>> *
>> ___
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>> 
>> ___
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*
> *
> *
> *
> *
> 
> *Jane Austen Festival Australia  *
> *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy
> *
> *John Gardiner-Garden's Historic Dance book
> series
> *
> ___
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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