Re: [h-cost] Where is everyone hanging out these days?
I joined sometime last year. The only way I found out about this list, is from the search result regarding the Gothic Fitted Gown. I've my degree in Theater, with focus in theatrical costuming. However, I am very interested in the historical aspect of things - why things were worn as such, how they were sewn, what did they wear underneath everything to give the right shape, etc. Even for my designs, I always prefer to go the historical route versus the theatrical route. Not always possible, but I at least make good arguements for doing so. I also have projects I'm working on on the side, those I focus on the historical point of things. I enjoy this list because, as many others have pointed out, it is a general list not specific to eras. Any question I have can usually be answered. I also do not have the time to read all the blogs or lists out there so I must simplify things and go with this one. Michael On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Beteena Paradise bete...@mostlymedieval.com wrote: I joined sometime between 2002 and 2003 because I was living in Atlanta at the time. Does anyone else mark time by where they lived? Gotta love the army! Anyway, I don't remember where I heard about this list. I just remember that it had something to do with Robin Netherton. I don't know if she mentioned it somewhere or it came up doing an internet search for research. I took a costuming hiatus for a couple of years around 2005 so didn't really pay much attention to posts on this list. It goes to its own folder so sometimes I just let them accumulate. But every so often I would go back to reading regularly. Teena On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:08:13 -0400 penn...@costumegallery.com writes: So here are the questions...how did you find the h-costume email list? And what year did you join? It will be really interesting how the newbies have found it. I found it as one of two costume email lists in 1996 on AOL. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/10749841596157 9 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
I hope I'm not asking for too much, but could we perhaps have some references - for both viewpoints. Perhaps it's just a simple confusion or misunderstanding? And perhaps both could be right. But until we have references to either or both if that be the case, I'd like to avoid being the start of an arguement on here! Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 12:50 PM, albert...@aol.com wrote: The spoon busk was quite before the 19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway. *** The spoon busk is almost exclusively 1870s... so it is VERY victorian. _ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
Fran I was actually referencing to the issue of when spoon busks were in style - but those links are still great! I was unaware of the first three! While there can be many good links through The Costumer's Manifesto, there are also some not so great ones, in addition to stores. It just takes longer to sort though sometimes. Michael OAS AAS LLS On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.comwrote: On 3/25/2011 10:04 AM, Michael Deibert wrote: I hope I'm not asking for too much, but could we perhaps have some references - for both viewpoints. I agree that research in books and other publications is where you should start. Here are three different bibliographies: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Corset/Bibliography/Old_English http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Corset/Bibliography/English http://www.calectasia.com/Bibliography.php and a long set of corset links: http://costumes.org/history/100pages/corsetlinks.htm You can find more with a net search. These are just the first few I brought up in a casual search. Fran Lavolta Press Books of historic clothing patterns www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
Good morning everyone! I'm doing some research into corsets, and thought it best to start on here where many of you already have research. While I know a lot regarding corsets, I have two main focuses. The first is regarding corset patterns. I am hoping to develop a corset pattern and thus would like to be able to have as many corset patterns to base it off of as I can. While any corset pattern works, I am specifically hoping to find Victorian era corset patterns with hip and/or bust gores. From the many companies out there currently selling commercial pattersn, there are few who focus on corsets with gores. I am looking at trying to simplify the process of grading for different sizes, and believe that there might be a way to accomplish this with gored patterns. So if any of you have or know of patterns that I can get, please direct me in that direction! (Remember copyright laws and direct me to where I can find things, rather than just copy and paste.) Second, the little research I've done so far indicates that during the Victorian eras, there were many corset patterns that used gores - yet many of the current commercial patterns focus on those without. Is there a reason for this that anyone might be aware of? Is it easier to fit without gores? Are gored patterns more difficult to make up? Any help in this direction is also a huge plus! Please don't shy away, the more I can accumulate, the better my final pattern shall be once it is ready! Thanks in advance! Michael Deibert ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
All of these are great ideas, great tidbits of advice, and have given me plenty of things to ponder! But perhaps I need to clarify a few things so we don't get too far off track, or just keep re-itterating the same things over and over. First, I'm only on the preliminary research steps, nowhere near even drafting out a pattern let alone going beyond. I have my concept, and while it is rather unique and new (from what I can tell so far, that is) - it is focused more on fitting the modern woman's measurements and shape than it is on style. It's not new in the concept, however the use of that concept might be. (Sorry if that's vague!) Because the corset is a historical garment, one that completely fascinates me as well, I will do all that I can to incorporate the history into the design. In terms of style, period, decade, etc - I say that I want a Victorian style, in comparison to Tudor/Elizabethan or 18th century stays (completely drastic styles and ones that unfortunately won't work with my concept at this time.) Which decade or specific look within Victorian eras? That, I honestly do not know! I have general sketches in my mind but as far as settling on a specific decade, I need much more research. Everything right now is general and broad - I'm trying to amass as much information as I can in order to create the best style and design that 1) works with my overall concept, 2) is marketable, and 3) sells. Concept: Without giving anything away, I will be using both hip and bust gores. Yes, it would be more challenging to make up, but for the overall goals of fitting the modern woman, I believe the extra effort will be worth it. (I can easily be wrong, but only trial and error may tell!) Marketability: My ideal market is a bridge between the historical re-enactors and fashion. After all, the past influences the future. If, however, once I have the pattern worked out, and start testing it and making some test corsets, they end up appealing more to the fantasy/renaissance, or even goth scenes then I will adapt and start marketing to them instead because one of the goals is to make a return on my investment if possible. I also accept that I will probably alienate some people simply because of the style, and some perhaps because of the concept itself. But if the first design is successful, then I can adapt and hopefully add additional styles that would bring those people back into play. Lastly, to touch on the issue you bring up with gores and fit vs shaping the body. It is a valid point, and will definitely be a fine line (if one even exists) that I will have to decide. While I agree that the corset shapes the body and provides the support, you can't squeeze a women who wears a DD bra into a corset designed for a woman with an A cup - even if all their other measurements are the same. Or perhaps it is and my concept might have to be thrown out. My research and trials (along with help from those of you who've gone through this or are familiar with the concepts, etc), will ultimately decide where things go. Sorry if I repeated things I've already mentioned - I'm trying to clear up any misunderstandings and establish better grounds to continue. And I do promise, I will TRY to keep emails short as well! Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
Thank you Fran, for that reminder and clarification. While I very well could work out a licensing agreement to use a current corset pattern, I'm still leaning towards going back to the primary sources to develope one. Yes, I could easily be wasting my time in the end, but because the concept is unique, I think it's best to at least start that route. I'm also keeping long-term goals in mind. If I started off using another company's pattern to make corsets and sell them, what happens when I want to branch out into a different style? I would either have to start completley new then so I can call it my own, or use another company's pattern. How soon do you just become a maker of one company? I would rather have things by my work, patterns that I can work to fit other styles and perhaps even eras. And perhaps I'm just stubborn and need to try it my way first - If that's the case, then I fully accept any and all warnings that I was foolish to insist upon re-inventing the wheel. (sorry if my attempt at humor doesn't get across as intended!) But definitely thanks for that reminder! Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.comwrote: The Laughing Moon one is the only corset pattern Ive used with gores, but since I started with fantasy corsets, I haven't used many historical patterns,i nstead I've developed my own and modified others for myself. I'm not sure a see a need for a Victorian corset pattern people would call generic (even though it's not). A number of them are already on the market. Re copyright issues: What is copyrighted is the pattern, illustrations, and instructions. Whether a company restricts if the pattern can be used for garments made for sale, and if so how many garments and under what circumstances, is a licensing issue. Getting a license is a question of formally asking permission and possibly, paying for it. Also, of getting consent in writing with a signature. I think Butterick/Simplicity/Vogue and McCall's require licenses. With smaller companies the issue varies. What I am getting at is, if you like a Laughing Moon or Past Patterns corset pattern (Past Patterns has published several excellent corset patterns), I suggest contacting the company, saying you want to make garments for sale, and asking if that is acceptable to them. If they say yes, you have saved yourself a lot of trouble. Fran Lavolta Press Books of historic clothing patterns www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Authenticity
Why must they be nasty arguements? While it's unfortunate some people react that way, if there are valid arguements to be made which can be supported through either research or even experience, and we can remain civil - isn't that what constitutes a good discussion? Perhaps, if that topic is buried in the old archives, it would be worth reviving. After all, new research has been made, perhaps new technology. And there are new members on this list - that equals new viewpoints. Lastly, why would people unsubscribe just because others on the list are reviving a topic that not only is of interest to them, but is one of the key reasons this list exists? All they have to do is delete those emails if they don't want to participate. There have been several posts on here that either do not interest me, or are specific questions that I cannot add input on - so I read them, and archive or delete the email. Simple as that. And I think I might have to get my hands on a copy of that book! Michael On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Cin cinbar...@gmail.com wrote: Carol, We dont discuss the Great Authenticity Issue on this list anymore. All the nasty arguments bitter recriminations have been made. Find the old fights in the archives. Discuss it you'll see a wave of unsubscribes. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Carol Kocian aqua...@patriot.net wrote: - Where do we draw the line between what is acceptable as historically accurate vs historically authentic? - With modern sewing skills and fads (such as zippers), where do we encorporate those skills to aid in construction of period garments, or do we insist on using the period methods? Historic activities run the gamut from immersion reenactment to a town's history days event, with different expectations and requirements for different events. Sometimes someone will ask a discussion list if something is OK, when really that decision is up to the event organizers or the leadership of a particular group. Where you draw the line is different than where I would draw it, and it could even be different for the garments in the same outfit. Absolute authenticity is a moving target, because the more we know, the more details there are that are harder t0 reach. That leads into the next question — where to substitute modern skills. When more labor-intensive methods are used, for example hand stitching, custom weaving, hand-knitting and the like, the potential for clients gets smaller. Some of these methods become a labor of love, a desire to learn a technique for its own sake. All costume, including the broader sense that all clothing is costume, is a deliberate effort to communicate something to the rest of the world. Appearance is important, the outermost layer. Some groups have the standard of hand stitching for visible seams, but machine sewn is ok for interior construction — for eras before the sewing machine was around. Underpinnings do make a difference in how the costume looks from the outside, but how much does it matter that the corset looks right, as long as it gives the right shaping. But once you have a reason to show the corset, its appearance becomes more important. Beyond that, as above, it starts to depend on personal interest in a particular technique or a desire to learn the techniques of a particular era. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] This Group and costume and ....
For those interested, here is the link to this list's info page which does a good job of covering what this list is about. http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume/ Here's just the first paragraph: This list concentrates on re-creating period costume, from the Bronze age to the mid-20th Century. Its emphasis is on accurate historical reproduction of clothing, historical techniques for garment construction, as well as the application of those techniques in modern clothing design. Other topics appropriate for discussion include adapting historical clothing for the modern figure, clothing evolution, theatrical costumes, patterns, materials, books, and sources for supplies. Note that it includes clothing evolution. [please forgive the very brief history] It used to be that every single garment was sewn by hand at home. During the Middle Ages, guilds grew that focused on making clothing among other things. Yet, much of the lower classes still made their own clothes. Time progressed, governments changed... but we reached a point in the Industrial age when the sewing machine was made. While many people still sewed by hand, the machine changed the way things were done. This lead to further developments and in short, we reached the point where we are today: some sew by hand in authentic traditions, some sew using machines, some of us sew historical garments, some sew our own clothes, some mass produce garments. Yes, there are other groups out there (and thank you for listing the links). While I am aware of some of those and others, other people might not be. The other discussion on here led me to realize that there is natural bias among all of us who deal with fabric. But is it warranted bias? Or are we just being stubborn and refuse to listen. In no means am I accusing anyone, in fact I think we all are guilty of this in some form - myself included. The same theory I had been discussing on the other forum I am on to get feedback from that aspect. I had gotten some feedback from historical costumers here. Laurie's post broke things down even simpler. Fran, you mentioned that if you dont want to read some of the posts on here, you simply ignore them. I completely agree! My time is limited as well. No need to be forced to read anything. Michael ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] hoop storage
The two that I have hang rather nicely if you take a string and, after collapsing the hoops, tie it around where the CF would be. Just simply tie this around a strong hanger and it fits perfectly in most closet spaces. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Authenticity
I agree. That level of maturity is what needs to be kept. It's all about meta-cognition. You have to always consider where someone is coming from - and usually it's not the same. Also, if we had no variety... things would get rather boring and we'd stop sharing information because there'd be nothing different to share. Perhaps thankfuly, I have not been on a list-serve where things flamed on for weeks. But if I was, I would either be actively involved in the debate or I'd just ignore it and delete the emails. I never tried to start another flame war or tried dictating what it should be. I stated that I was going off-topic from the start. Nor was I on this list during those flame wars - so was unaware that those questions would start a huge fight instead of an educational discussion and debate. Michael ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?
the classes. Perhaps the program you went through was better prepared than others, I cannot say. Perhaps things in general have changed since you've taken that program either for the better or for worse ... it's hard to say because each school's program can (and often does) vary drastically from others programs. My dream program, as you call it, would focus on core basic courses covering the common steps I mentioned above, paired with additional specialized courses that are optional electives but not required. I'll use the pattern-making reference to explain. The core class in pattern making would cover the basics of flat pattern drafting, draping, correcting patterns to improve fit, and perhaps even touch briefly in grading. A student finishing that course would have a basic understand of the skills needed in each area. The optional electives (say they'd be required to take at least two electives in pattern making) would be focused on the specific areas. Flat Pattern Drafting I II, Draping I II, Pattern Alterations, Pattern Grading. While they would have to take at least two of the electives, they could just focus on Flat Pattern Drafting, or just take the two Draping courses. Apply the similar layout to each of the core steps, and you have a Fashion Design Production program that would be excellent for a community college. Since most colleges offer minors in areas they offer full degrees, the ideal minor program in this dream school would only require a student take each of the core basic classes, perhaps with one or two electives to add variety. This minor program then is perfect for the home-sewer looking to take her skills to the next level, for the custom-clothier to refine their skills, etc. There are plenty of specialized schools, such as Parsons and FIT, that focus entirely in the field. They have the ability to create whole programs just on Fashion Design, or Pattern Making, etc. What I am getting at is: People making historic costumes for themselves may not be familiar with grading ready-to-wear sizes, or with mass manufacturing, or with CAD programs. Most of those who make historic costumes for themselves did not go to a fashion design school (judging from what I have seen), but instead became interested in it as a hobby and as their interest progressed, they learned the skills they did not yet have. That's perfectly fine, but not exactly what we're discussing here - we're talking about the courses a program should have to cover what needs to be covered, yet allow options for students to specialize in their specific segments of the garment field. Kudos to anyone who takes a book, or takes a class and learns something new from it, especially if they teach themselves - we never stop learning even after going for an education. Michael Deibert ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?
On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 1:51 PM, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.comwrote: Can we get back to historical costuming now? That's what I've been trying to do! The point, however, is that everyone on this list already knows the basic steps of producing garments for their purposes. They do not need you to lecture them about it. You're not addressing a roomful of clueless newbies to whom you can dispense your wisdom about how the garment industry works--even though you're not working in it and just repeating what you heard on another forum. Then please don't patronize me the same way you claim I am. And I am working in the industry, not just repeating what I have been told. Yet I also am a costume designer and am knowledgable in those skills. And I do custom, period garments. Am I an expert? No, but I never claimed I am either. There are people on this list who hold different views on things like, whether a given garment is totally authentic for a given wearer in a given period--and whether it even matters if the person wearing the garment is not a historical interpreter. I personally think that holding a different view is not a misconception. I think that's a wonderful topic for discussion. Perhaps a new thread? Here are some questions that I've pondered. - Where do we draw the line between what is acceptable as historically accurate vs historically authentic? - With modern sewing skills and fads (such as zippers), where do we encorporate those skills to aid in construction of period garments, or do we insist on using the period methods? Michael. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.comwrote: * In every course I was in, the students wanted to make garments for themselves, regardless of their goals for the course. If they were going to put all that time and money into making something they loved, they wanted to wear it. There is some sense in doing this in the RTW learning process. Most fashion degree programs culminate in the creation of a line that is then shown as a final project. I know of at least one recent graduate (she's active on the forums I mentioned), who decided that since she was putting all this work into creating her line, she wanted to do it correctly so that it could be manufactured and earn back all the money she invested in the project to graduate. So a program geared with this in mind would be extremely beneficial but only if they themselves were the target market for their line. * We were always taught custom fitting ... it's not how the ready-to-wear industry works. There's no way anyone could have been induced to buy an industry dress form for a standard size and make all the clothes for it (considering none of the students were exactly an industry standard size, which of course was the point of the fitting lessons). This is a slight misconception and I'll avoid going into sizing issues. But while there are industrial sized dress forms, the industry standard size is a medium. The actual measurements of your line's medium is based on your target market and your fit model. A fit model is the actual model you will fit everything to - this is where the training on how to custom fit models comes in handy. Where the industry process differs from the home-sewing mindset is that after the sample (muslin in home-sewing world) is fit to the fit model, the pattern is then corrected to the new changes. The home-sewer takes the fit sample and finishes it off because the alterations were done on the almost finished garment. Lastly, that is extremely unforunate regarding your male classmate but I completely sympathize with him. As a male myself, most of the drafting books and courses out there are geared towards women's clothing - not men. Tailoring courses are for the male clothing yet unless you apprentice under a tailor, very few courses come close to covering the basics of drafting men's patterns. Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?
Quickly to wrap this up since we seem to agree to disagree... and if you'd like to continue this because there are some interesting things brought up, feel free to send me a private email. First of all, Remember, this is an e-list that focuses explicitly on making historic clothing. I know exactly what this list is for, else I would not have signed up to recieve the postings. I too, make made-to-measure, custom designed period clothing. My degree is in theater with focus on costuming. The only thing holding me back from knowing and doing the same things others on here do is that I have not yet had the time to master all the skills. Even though this is a historical costume list-serve, everything mentioned in our discussion is completely relevent to original post of this thread. Now, onto the rest of it and only because it should explain why I initially went off topic as you proclaim. Here is the full context of the quote: *On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Kathryn Pinner pinn...@mccc.edu wrote: * *The powers that be at my community college (where I am a theatrical costume and set designer) have decided to start a Fashion Design and Merchandizing program (the push seems to be from the merchandizing/businesss side) and they are expecting me to teach the history of costume, basic sewing, and textiles.* The point I made was that they are starting a Fashion Design and Merchandizing *program*. Yes, Kate mentions that her courses are geared towards history of costume, basic sewing, and textiles. Yet, since she is one of the professors involved in the overall program, she can have input into what the course are - even is she might not actually teach them. [On a side note, history of costume would be of little help to a fashion design major - unless it covers the history of modern fashion or period fashion is become a mainstream revival without my knowledge.] Yes, many people want to learn to sew their own clothes that fit them. That is why all the community colleges around the area I live have continuing education classes, which are separate from their degree courses. A course such as the one you describe is better suited towards those courses, where the more specialized courses would be for those pursing that degree program. *The instructor actively helped to place students who wanted factory jobs into factories in the local garment industry (which used to be much more vital than it is today). But, not everyone wants to sew on the factory floor, not to mention most of that work gets outsourced to third-world countries these days. * True, the industry is not as vital today as it was even ten years ago. But actually, the current trend is bringing manufacturing back into the US because that is what the customers want - except there are no workers to do the work. The manufacturing field in the US is full of open jobs for the taking, yet most college graduates do not want to do actualy work but instead become the next overnight sensation. *No matter what manufacturers do to sizing, they still will never custom fit the human body, unless they make clothes on a custom basis. * Manufacturing clothing will never fit everyone perfectly - that's a fact that has not nor will change. That is one of many reasons there is the distinction between made-to-measure garments and those that are RTW manufactured. Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?
First off let me apologize. It was a side comment that popped into my mind that almost didn't make it through to the final edited post. Perhaps my mind was preoccupied on the rest of the post that it made sense at the time? Regardless, upon both replies and rethinking it myself I have to say even I disagree with my own comment! [remember to think before typing next time!] And Laurie, no fight needed. We all are entitled to our thoughts, and its always best when they can be further supported such as both yours and Carol's. The history of costume/fashion [not to risk another side topic but I always find it hard to distinquish between the two yet both words have different connotations to most of society... hmmm...] is definitely something that is needed. In all honesty, I wish I had more! I think my bias is that the only course I had in studing for my degree was a combined Costume Design and Costume History course - geared only towards theater. So not only was it really half a course, but not once was the topic of how modern fashion draws conclusions from historical periods. It wasn't until I really focused in on theatrical costuming, that my interest in history in general grew - mostly because now I felt in order to understand how the changes in costume dictated/were dictated by changes in society. And Carol, anytime actual research methods are employed is a huge benefit to any degree. The world we live in seems to require proof before believing in something. Research provides that. Knowing not only how to reseach but, more importantly, how to apply that research to the use you need it to be is an extremely useful skill. And I'd be perfectly fine with a revival of the crinoline hoops or even the bustle! And before I create more mess and drama, I completely agree Laurie that it seems to have turned into the Fashion Design crowd versus the Historical Costume crowd... and here I am debating for both sides at the middle of the arguement! Extremely sorry, that was not my intent! But as you point out, there are multiple ways we are all alike. Regardless of the time period, both sides create a look based on research. Both sides use patterns of some kind to transfer that design into the 3D reality. We all are constantly sourcing for the right materials, be it for a certain look or certain price point. At some point in the process we perfect the pattern to the intended target wearer (be it one person or an entire age group). Almost always is there something that needs to be undone and resewn, or replanned, etc. Always. And after all that mess, both sides exit the process with a finished garment that meets all the requirements they were aiming for. It's only when we think we've learned everything we need to know, that we've only just begun to learn the lesson. Michael Deibert ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?
First, I don't think there exists a state that actually has money right now - but that's a whole nothing topic! I am definitely not talking about courses offered by fabric stores - unless one is an absolute complete beginner and even then, the projects are way too simple. Also, tuition is going up everywhere - unfortunately because it also means that many future students might not get their education now because of the increases. As to the dream situation you refer to, its unfortunately not as easy as that. Both sides (the aspiring amateur and the industry professionals) are much more alike than either would like to agree. Except neither side is willing to even talk to each other, let alone share the information that would help bridge the chasm between the two. It really comes down to the same basic steps that both sides follow, with slight changes in the order and importance each side places on those steps. But most programs out their focus solely on one or the other. Simple work on the cooperation, perhaps even collaboration with certificate programs instead of full out degree programs, would provide students with skills they need to get a job after they graduate. I hope that makes sense. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?
Is this a new degree program? How many courses will be required for the new degree and do you have any control over what they might, or could be? In terms of those books, I personally don't know either. But unless it is a course entirely on costume history, I would advise to give brief lectures of each period. This is how the Costume History course I had was taught. (Granted it was combined equally with costume design so the time was really limited.) But my professor spent one of the two classes each week on a time period, starting from the Egyptians and working forward in history. It was a very brief into to each period but it covered the basic differences as the era's changed - enough to cover costume history but if one wanted a further knowledge, they then knew terms and resources to research. We did not have a required book in the costume history portion, however on our syllabus were listed a couple books that were recommended to purchase. Many of these could even be bought second-hand for cheap. On another note, if they are pushing for a fashion design degree with the aims of being able to design and then produce a line, then I would highly recommend Kathleen Fasanella's book *The Entrapreneur's Guide to Sewn Product Manufacturing*. It is the only book of its kind, and it is aimed soley at Design Entrepreneurs (DE's) in any sewn product field. Within its pages, there is real-world, industry advice on everything from what not to do, to how to go through every stage of the process. She wrote and published it herself, so it can be quite frank at times but the points she makes are worth it! She has a blog at http://www.fashion-incubator.com/. For the purchase of a new book, anyone can then gain access to the members only forum where everyone is somehow connected to the industry and there are many DE's on there in the process of developing lines - I'm one of them! Currently, most fashion design schools worry all about the designing element and put little emphasis on actual manufacturing. If your community college focus on the degree from this angle, not only will it be a unique program out there but the students who earn that degree will be able to actually get jobs. Most fashion school graduates are unprepared for the industry and the industry is way oversaturated with amazing designers who can't manufacture their designs because their education lacked those skills. And if it helps, my degree is in theatrical costuming, not fashion. Most of the DE's on Kathleen's site did not go to fashion schools either and those who did only have a slight advantage over those who didn't but mostly in skill such as patternmaking or such. Hope this helps, and at the least check out Kathleen's blog. She also replies to emails and has even talked to people over the phone before to help them out. Michael Deibert On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Kathryn Pinner pinn...@mccc.edu wrote: The powers that be at my community college (where I am a theatrical costume and set designer) have decided to start a Fashion Design and Merchandizing program (the push seems to be from the merchandizing/businesss side) and they are expecting me to teach the history of costume, basic sewing, and textiles. They seem to be leaning toward using books from Pearson and the the text for costume history they are looking at is 'History of World Costume and Fashion' by Daniel Delis Hill. Anyone know this text and have a comment? (I suggested 'Survey of Historic Costume' by Tortora Eubanks -- don't know if they will listen to me). Other texts they are looking at are 'The Sewing Book' by Alison Smith and 'Textiles' by Kadolph. Any comments? Kate Pinner ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?
On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.comwrote: On another note, if they are pushing for a fashion design degree with the aims of being able to design and then produce a line, then I would highly recommend Kathleen Fasanella's book *The Entrapreneur's Guide to Sewn Product Manufacturing*. On Amazon I searched on Fashion Design, and also found How to Set Up and Run a Fashion Label,Basics Fashion Design: Developing a Collection, 200 Projects to Get You into Fashion Design, How to Open and Operate a Financially Successful Fashion Design Business, (this seems very similar the The Entrepreneur's Guide,) and a number of other books on setting up and running your own design business, as well as books I have not mentioned that focus entering the industry by working for other companies. Some of these books look excellent, for anyone interested in these topics. While I cannot attest to the books you mentioned, Kathleen Fasanella's book *The Entrepreneur's Guide to Sewn-Product Manufacturing* is NOT a book on how to start a fashion design business, how to start a sewn manufacturing business, etc. She takes one page and goes over a very short, brief run down of things like that. It's actually quite humorous! Her take on it is there are way too many books out there on how to actually get a business started, regardless of whether its in fashion or sewn products - and she is quite right. What her book does cover, are things that no other book has covered before. Her book is actually known as the blue book in the industry know for those who know of it. Some of the topics covered are: How to plan a line, style numbers, What are blocks, Determining market entry, Producting Scheduling, Sale's Reps, Market trends: what customers want, Producting costing, Setting up shop, Improving product quality, Cutting a pattern for shrinkage, Why DE's are destined to succeed, and many more. She even has the full table of contents on here website, and some chapters are free to preview. Here's the link: http://www.fashion-incubator.com/products_services/table-of-contents/. I recommend anyone interested in this to check it out - even if you are just looking to achieve that professional, industry standard look (which btw is not because of industrial secret techniques, but rather because the pattern and the process are perfected that they can be quickly sewn in repetition for large orders and still have the same qualifing markers in all finished garments.) And no, Kathleen is not paying me to advertise her book or anything like that. I have learned more from her one book than I have any of the other books I've read and looked into getting. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Downton Abbey
I'd be surprised if the Big Three even gave it a thought. Plus, with my experience in all of their historical patterns they shoot out, I spend much more time having to deal with them than they are actually worth (mostly the Big Three all have to add wearing ease - which is completely wrong for something form fitting as a corset!). There are only a few smaller companies that actually produce correct historical patterns. Even if it would become the next costume drama, which I think wouldn't be such a bad thing except maybe for the fabric companys, it would help hone in on what really makes a historical costume because you can't just throw something together and embellish the heck out of it when it's the size of Barbie. Mike On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:14 PM, WorkroomButtons.com westvillagedrap...@yahoo.com wrote: By everyone, do you mean major pattern companies? Is PBS even on the radar of the Big Three? Dede --- On Mon, 1/17/11, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com wrote: So is this the next costume drama where everyone will be rushing to reproduce the costumes? Fran ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Downton Abbey
Oop! I just realized that I had combined two different threads into one and posted on here! (Was thinking more about the miniature sized costume threads) As for Downtown Abbey, I haven't seen it yet but it does look like a great show and I definitely see where the idea of that influencing patterns. However, because it's not a mainstream movie, or IMHO one of the major shows currently airing, I dont think it will have much influence. For example, was there a huge surge of patterns when The Tudors started airing? I don't recall one yet that was a fairly major show. Mike On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:34 PM, annbw...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 1/17/2011 4:33:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, exst...@gmail.com writes: It's a BBC show, According to their website, it is indeed British, but ITV1, not BBC. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
