Re: [h-cost] St Germain's Hose
It would have been very helpful if these ancient cultures had produced a Sears and Roebucks catalog so that it would make it easier to identify what they wore. :D I'll get the articles thru ILL. I am mostly interested in Merovingian clothing, so the Gallo-Roman garments are a start. I'm leaning toward a cut and sewn sock, of a 2x2 twill linen, that extends to just above the knee and is cross-gartered into place. Thank you! Althea Rizzo alt...@alfalfapress.com We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow On Sep 25, 2010, at 9:42 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote: On Sep 25, 2010, at 6:16 PM, Althea Turner wrote: Does anyone know which museum the garment known as St Germain's hose is in? Is there a better picture than the one in Kohler? The items is pictured and described in: Schmedding, Brigitta. 1978. Mittelalterliche Textilien in Kirchen und Klostern der Schweiz. Abegg Stiftung, Bern. which indicates that (at that date) it was held at the Jurassien Museum, Delemont, Switzerland. There's also a photo of it in Boucher's 20,000 Years of Fashion. Note that the authors I've seen discussing this item agree that the association with St. Germain (and thus the supposed 7th century date) is certainly false. Schmedding is of the opinion that a 12th c. date is more likely. Any other images of extant hose, from 4-8th century? You don't mention whether you're looking for a specific geographic area. There are a few Egyptian nalebinding socks from that general era (Burnham, Dorothy. 1972. Coptic Knitting: An Ancient Technique. Textile History 3 (Dec. 1972), 116-124.) but they're of a style that seems unlikely to have been popular in Europe. A little earlier than your date-range, there's a pair of woolen cut- and-sewn socks from 1st-2nd c. France (currently at Musée Bargoin, Clermont-Ferrand, France). They're published in a number of places, although none that are particularly easy to access. Probably the most likely to be available is: Desrosiers, Sophie Alexandra Lorquin. 1998. Gallo-Roman Period Archaeological Textiles found in France in Textiles in European Archaeology (NESAT Symposium 6) ed. Lise Bender Jørgensen Christina Rinaldo. Göteborg. After that, the earliest sock/hose-like items I've been able to identify in Europe are include the ca. 10-11th c. nalebinding sock from York (Walton, Penelope. 1990. Textile production at Coppergate, York: Anglo-Saxon or Viking? in Textiles in Northern Archaeology (NESAT Symposium 3) ed. Penelope Walton and John-Peter Wild. London.) and the early 11th c. full-length silk hose associated with the Holy Roman Emperor Henry III (Schramm, Percy Ernst Florentine Mutherich. 1962. Denkmale der deutschen Konige und Kaiser. Prestel Verlag, München.). My database indicates that the ca. 7th c. finds at Bernuthsfeld (Germany) included a set of leg wraps, but I'd have to look at the original publication to see if I meant the sort of unshaped cloth wrapped around a foot inside a shoe, serving as a sock or the sort of narrow strip used as a wrapping for the lower leg. I suspect the latter. The citations is from: Schlabow, Karl. 1976. Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutschland. Karl Wachholtz Verlag, Neumünster. The following publication also includes something I cataloged as leg wraps (I can see I need to clarify this in my database coding): Banck, Johanna. 1998. Ein merowingerzeitlicher Baumsarg aus Lauchheim/Ostalbkreis -- Zur Bergung und Dokumentation der Textilfunde in Textiles in European Archaeology (NESAT Symposium 6) ed. Lise Bender Jørgensen Christina Rinaldo. Göteborg. This list isn't likely to be at all complete, but it's what I currently have entered into my surviving garments database. Which this seems a good opportunity to plug: http://www.heatherrosejones.com/survivinggarments/index.html Heather Jones ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] St Germain's Hose
Does anyone know which museum the garment known as St Germain's hose is in? Is there a better picture than the one in Kohler? Any other images of extant hose, from 4-8th century? thanks! Althea Rizzo alt...@alfalfapress.com We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Caracalla
Does anyone know of contemporary images of the caracalla? I can't seem to find a single image on line. My google-fu is weak. Thanks! Althea Turner alt...@alfalfapress.com We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Caracalla
The hooded Gallo-Roman garment that gave the Emperor Caracalla his nickname (kinda like Caligula's nickname is from the boots). Busts of Caracalla show a drape of fabric which may or may not be the caracalla garment. Thanks! Althea Turner alt...@alfalfapress.com We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow On Jun 12, 2010, at 9:47 PM, otsisto wrote: What actually is it that you are looking for? I'm finding several things called caracalla. For example Emperor Caracalla http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Caracalla.jpg There are the baths of Caracalla and the story of Caracalla Geta Here are the google images http://tinyurl.com/323dt8a De -Original Message- Does anyone know of contemporary images of the caracalla? I can't seem to find a single image on line. My google-fu is weak. Thanks! Althea Turner alt...@alfalfapress.com We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Happy Birthday to me!
My Darling has said he'd buy me a dress form for my birthday. Any recommendations on which brand to buy? Which to avoid? Thanks! Althea Althea Turner alt...@alfalfapress.com We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fabric Stores Crystal City? DC?
Any recommendations on a fabric store in DC, somewhere near metro? Going to the Textile Museum on Thursday. Yay! Thanks! Althea *** Directory of Diverse Knowledge http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca Althea Turner alt...@alfalfapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What colors were used Charles du Blois Purpoint?
My notes are at home, but I seem to remember that the pourpoint was made of silk damask fabric. The woven pattern consists of a heraldic design with lions and eagles (?) in roundels. The color was either red with gold thread or gold with gold thread. I can check later today. Althea On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 05:48:13 -0700, Saragrace Knauf wrote I wasn't very clear in my request. I have the sewing pattern. The pattern I was refereeing to was the fabric pattern, the colors in the photos are better than what I have. But usually on something this old, the colors now are not what they would have originally been. As to the buttons, if they were reversed, I might offer the idea that he might wear some sort of armor on top of it - the flat buttons being more comfortable than the round...but I have not a clue otherwise. Thanks, Sg Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 00:37:56 -0400 From: ail...@neo.rr.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] What colors were used Charles du Blois Purpoint? The buttons down the front are mixed - the one at the very top is flat, the next bunch are balls as are the ones on the sleeves. The ones from about the waist to the bottom of the pourpoint are flat like the one at the top. I can't imagine why they're like that. Kate otsisto otsi...@socket.net wrote: http://tinyurl.com/mkzpm9 http://gambesons.com/design Interesting, this shows that the buttons down the front are not the same shape as the ones on the sleeve. http://tinyurl.com/mj4bws this has a pattern. De -Original Message- Now that I have some really great close ups of the fabric, does anyone now what color(s) it was supposed to be? Thanks, Sg From: wickedf...@msn.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Really close up of Charles du Blois Purpoint? Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:40:08 -0700 I was asked today to make one of these purpoints - given the recent discussion on reproduction prints, does anyone know of any really up close photos of the print on the fabric of this garment? It sure would be fun to recreate it that way! Thanks, Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume *** Directory of Diverse Knowledge http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca Althea Turner alt...@alfalfapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for on-line article
Try here: http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/Costuming/MaghribiCostume.html Althea On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:47:45 EDT, SNSpies wrote I am trying to locate the following article on-line which seems to have disappeared. Costume in al-Maghrib (the Muslim West) in the Medieval and Renaissance Periods. Thanks for any pointers. Nancy Nancy Spies Arelate Studio _www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html_ (http://www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html) **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219850974x1201371016/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume *** Directory of Diverse Knowledge http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca Althea Turner alt...@alfalfapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] need source for silk tulle
Hello, Does anyone know an online source for silk tulle that isn't insanely expensive? Has anyone worked with anjooriansilks.com? Thank you, Althea Turner alt...@alfalfapress.com We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for
Hello, I think I have a picture of this at home. I will check this evening. Althea On Wed, 21 May 2008 11:54:13 -0700, Nancy Millis-MacHaffie wrote a picture of the burial shroud of St. Bathilde of France. From the book of Textiles and Clothing from the Museum of London, pg 81. The first paragraph on the left hand side says that the 'Shroud of St Bathild... has bands of huckaback bordering a mian web of tabby with a looped pile... Does anyone know where I can find a picture of this on the web? I'm trying to define the word band here. Is it a sewn on band, a woven in band? Nancy (who's been on the web for an hour now without sucees. :) ) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume *** Directory of Diverse Knowledge http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: looking for scan of Alcega Scholar robe
Hello Wanda, Where did you find it for that price? I've only seen available online for about $150, which is out of my price range. If it is available for $65, I'd be happy to buy it. Really really happy. thank you! Althea On Dec 27, 2007, at 8:39 PM, Wanda Pease wrote: women. The facsimile is followed by an illustrated English translation and a glossary. 88p plus 66p, b/w illus (Ruth Bean rep 2000, 2004) Price $65. Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: looking for scan of Alcega Scholar robe
Hello Ruth, Would this not fall under fair use? I would like a copy of a particular page for academic reasons. I'm not asking for the whole book and I don't intend to post the page on the web. It's seems counter-productive to not allow academic use of published materials, especially in light of the extremely high price of the book. Althea On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:13:30 -, Ruth Bean wrote Unless Wicked Frau has access to one of the very rare original copies of Alcega, surely there's a copyright issue involved here. Certainly in most of Europe, and I assume in the USA too, there is no right to offer and distribute copyright material freely to others without permission, even if supplied without charge. We have not authorised any display of Alcega patterns on line either. Ruth Bean Ruth Bean Publishers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original message- | Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:31:12 -0700 | From: Wicked Frau [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: looking for scan of Alcega Scholar robe | To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii | | Of course I will...any other takers? | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:h-costume- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On | Behalf Of Sharon Henderson | Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 2:50 PM | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Subject: [h- cost] Re: looking for scan of Alcega Scholar robe | | *lower lip wibbles* | | And... and... you aren't gonna share?? | | :) | Meli | | | Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:04:47 -0700 | From: Wicked Frau [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Done! :) Responded off list... | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:h-costume- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On | Behalf Of Althea Turner | Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:11 PM | To: Historical Costume | Subject: [h- cost] looking for scan of Alcega Scholar robe | | Hello! | Does anyone know of an online scan of the Scholar robes from Alcega? Or | would be willing to scan it and send it to me? I've looked around the | intarwebz and couldn't find a copy. Thanks! | Happy Holidays! | Althea | ___ | ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume *** Directory of Diverse Knowledge http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] looking for scan of Alcega Scholar robe
Hello! Does anyone know of an online scan of the Scholar robes from Alcega? Or would be willing to scan it and send it to me? I've looked around the intarwebz and couldn't find a copy. Thanks! Happy Holidays! Althea ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Somewhat OT (?)
Can you get matching or contrasting soutache braid and cover it with a design? Althea On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:14:33 -0800, zelda crusher wrote One thing I've learned on this list is that there is a vast amount of experience of ALL sorts among you. Can anyone suggest a cure for the pocket depression? Thanks in advance, Laurie *** Directory of Diverse Knowledge http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] looking for hi-rez images
Greetings all, I am looking for hi-rez images of the extant arming coats of the Black Prince and of Charles of Blois, and of the Effigy of the Black prince in Canterbury Cathedral. This is so I can make line drawing illustrations for a class I am teaching later this summer. I've found several low-rez versions on the web, but am hoping you know of better images. Thank you! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for hi-rez images
Those would be wonderful! Im trying to see detail so I can make an illustrated version. Thank you! Althea On Jul 5, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: How Hi-res do you want? I don't know of any on the web, but I have some pretty large scans from various books. The Charles is 3 MB with 1-2 MB details. Beth At 03:49 PM 7/5/2007, you wrote: Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 13:17:29 -0700 From: Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greetings all, I am looking for hi-rez images of the extant arming coats of the Black Prince and of Charles of Blois, and of the Effigy of the Black prince in Canterbury Cathedral. This is so I can make line drawing illustrations for a class I am teaching later this summer. I've found several low-rez versions on the web, but am hoping you know of better images. Thank you! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] viking apron dress
Just a heads up. If you follow the first extra info link to http:// www.vikinganswerlady.org/, you will get a rather nasty site that tries to put malware on your computer. I'm on Mac, so it didn't manage to do bad things, but I had to hard close my browser to leave the site. If you know who links to that site, you might want them to update their links. Althea On Jun 9, 2007, at 4:21 PM, otsisto wrote: It would be snug in the chest area. I have an apron dress that is snug in the bust for a wee bit o' support. The weave of the fabric allows some give so that you can pull it over the head. This is similar to the pattern I made. http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/mjc/sca/aprond.html extra info http://www.silverdor.org/viking/vikingad.html http://www.tjurslakter.nl/viking%20apron-dress.pdf http://www.earlyperiod.com/articles/viking-apron.php http://www.vikingagevessels.org/documents/C_%20Viking%20Womens% 20Costume.pdf http://members.aol.com/MtFreehold/Viking_handout_women.pdf I had another site earmarked but can seem to find it. De -Original Message- Hi, a friend of mine has asked me to sew a viking apron dress for her. But the thing that makes me wonder is that she wants it to be fitted, which would most certainly mean a fastening. Now that's the trouble: I've never heard of any viking fastening but of a brooch or something. Do you know something about that? Were all viking dresses so loose that they didn't need any fastening? If not, what would the fastening be? Many thanks, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] ? on library search and article databases
Greetings, I am looking for articles on 14th century male dress. I'm finding that journals like CIBA Review aren't often, if at all, found in EBSCO and ArticleFirst et al. Does anyone know of search databases that would list the nifty, yet obscure, journals we rely on? Thanks! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] ? on library search and article databases
Thank you! The 14th century is outside my comfort zone. Althea On Jun 4, 2007, at 5:52 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: On Mon, 4 Jun 2007, Althea Turner wrote: I am looking for articles on 14th century male dress. I'm finding that journals like CIBA Review aren't often, if at all, found in EBSCO and ArticleFirst et al. Does anyone know of search databases that would list the nifty, yet obscure, journals we rely on? Your best approach is to backtrack from other articles and books. E.g. start with Newton's Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince and go through her footnotes and bibliography for likely candidates. Then, when you get those articles/books, do the same. This won't get you new articles, but it will get you the standards that any scholar would be expected to be familiar with. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historic academic robes
My thanks for all the information. I've gotten a pretty good idea of the gowns, but still don't have a good notion of the hoods. Does anyone have good pictures of their own doctoral hoods? Thanks! Althea On Feb 8, 2007, at 9:23 AM, Susan wrote: Hi, Has anyone pointed you to this yet? http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/occupationaluniforms.htm Susan - Original Message - From: Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:37 AM Subject: [h-cost] historic academic robes hello all, I've gotten permission to make my own cap, gown and hood for my graduation this June. I would like to use the Alcega scholar's robe, or something similar. Does anyone know of a good source for patterns? Thank you! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] historic academic robes
hello all, I've gotten permission to make my own cap, gown and hood for my graduation this June. I would like to use the Alcega scholar's robe, or something similar. Does anyone know of a good source for patterns? Thank you! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] velvet question
greetings, The pile fabrics were much less like velvet and much more like shag rugs. There are pile fabrics found in late antique/ early medieval in northern Europe. So while the velvet poofy pants wouldn't be correct and period, poofy pants made of shag would. :D Althea On Jan 4, 2007, at 6:55 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: I haven't heard of the Egyptian piled fabric, but as far as I know, velvet was invented well *after* the Viking Age, so no velvet Viking poofy pants! ;oD --Sue - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] velvet question On a Norse list some people are trying to find out whether velvet or velvet like material was around during the Viking age. There is something about Egypt having a pile type fabric but someone send that it was totally different from velvet. So does anyone have the skinny on the subject? Thank you, De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies
Oh! Oh! The Court Jester with Danny Kaye and Angela Landsbury. :D Some of the best twisty-silly dialogue EVER, but oh my the clothes! Althea On Sep 23, 2006, at 7:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/23/2006 10:31:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but some really bad ones. The 1940 Pride and Prejudice, with costumes in highly fantasized 1830s-era. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] dream class
Hello all, I am developing a couple classes for ecampus. I began to wonder what kind of textiles/ apparel classes people want, but can never find. I know what I like, but what would you like to see offered? Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pirates otC dress
My 10 year old daughter caught on of the actors wearing wire rimmed glasses. I couldn't finish the show because of being so bad. Even on a budget, they could have done far better. At least they could have chosen one time period to portray. Ouch! Althea On Jul 26, 2006, at 7:18 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/26/2006 12:20:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I saw on the History Channel their show of REAL Pirates of the Caribbean. The info was all very interesting but the costumes in the rather extensive re-enactments were more than pitiful! High School theatre departments could have done better! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What do you do?
You are left with your incredible talent and US! :D I think we all go through phases with our art. There are times when I don't ever want to see another Vendel era carving. :D I work on something totally not related to anything I have been working on, and then inspiration usually hits. You will find your Muse again. Or She will find you when you see that perfect silk fabric and KNOW exactly what you want to make with it. Althea On Jul 5, 2006, at 12:21 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: What do you do when you finally realise you dont want to reenact anymore, and when your costumes gets bored to look at? When alll your reenactment friends leaves you, and your family two? What is left then? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hancock Fabrics
We have a similar situation here. Jo-Anne's is almost strictly polyester-quiltiing-fleece-crafty products. I went in to look for some wool to make a tunic and couldn't find anything except some sleezy poly wool blends. I asked where to find wool in town and was sent to a local fabric shop. The independent place was Nirvana. It was chock full of wools and silks and all manner of beautiful fabrics. Of course, they are extremely expensive, but quite honestly, I was delighted to pay the price. While I won't shop there often, but I want to support this little piece of heaven. The owner was knowlegable and helpful. Although I declare her Ev-il when she pointed out the incredible silk fabric that matched perfectly the wool I picked out for the tunic and would make a lovely veil. I bought two yards of it. :D Other than this place, I make a yearly pilgrimage to Portland, OR to visit Fabric Depot and Mill End Fabrics. Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hancock Fabrics
Corvallis, OR Linda's Sewing Fabric Althea On Jun 3, 2006, at 3:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:00 AM 6/3/2006, you wrote: Message: 3 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 09:59:40 -0700 From: Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hancock Fabrics To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed We have a similar situation here. Jo-Anne's is almost strictly polyester-quiltiing-fleece-crafty products. I went in to look for some wool to make a tunic and couldn't find anything except some sleezy poly wool blends. I asked where to find wool in town and was sent to a local fabric shop. The independent place was Nirvana. It was chock full of wools and silks and all manner of beautiful fabrics. Of course, they are extremely expensive, but quite honestly, I was delighted to pay the price. While I won't shop there often, but I want to support this little piece of heaven. The owner was knowlegable and helpful. Although I declare her Ev-il when she pointed out the incredible silk fabric that matched perfectly the wool I picked out for the tunic and would make a lovely veil. I bought two yards of it. :D Other than this place, I make a yearly pilgrimage to Portland, OR to visit Fabric Depot and Mill End Fabrics. Althea - where is this wonderful store, and what is the name of it? Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Current projects
I'm working on a new gown to go under my surcoat. It's at the bottom of the page. http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca/costume_projects.html I'm almost done finishing the seams on the inside and will move to embroidering over the seams on the outside, then I can start embroidering the collar band. Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Interesting adaptation of Bronzino painting.
Interesting adaptation of Bronzino painting about half way down page. -- obligatory costume content http://www.worth1000.com/cache/contest/contestcache.asp? contest_id=7794display=photoshop..entries * * drink warning is issued for this web site. You've been warned. Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Curtains
A friend and were traveling a couple years ago when we walked into our hotel room. We took one look at the curtains and looked at each other then at the curtains, then at each other. I asked her, Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky? :D It was a gorgeous red velvet with a gold floating thread in the traditional pomegranate pattern. yum! Althea On Apr 9, 2006, at 5:22 PM, Gail Scott Finke wrote: Sue wrote: Oh, mansuddenly, I'm overcome with the memory of watching a particular Carol Burnett sketch, many years ago (For those of you on other shores who may not be familiar with her, Carol is an *amazingly funny* American comedian, who used to have a sort of variety show on t.v., with a wonderful ensemble cast. At one point, they did a Gone with the Wind sendup, and Carol wore a spoof of Scarlett's curtain outfitcomplete with curtain rod sticking out past her shoulder blades) And then she said, I saw it in a window and I just couldn't resist. HA HA HA HA HA Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Venetian research question - need help
Ok, some of these have nothing to do with masks, but are interesting anyway. :D They might have bibliographies which will lead you to new sources. Revelling in the past. Geographical, Feb2003, Vol. 75 Issue 2, p28, 7p, 9c; (AN 8933572) THE OLD AND NEW WORLDS OF MARDI GRAS. By: Ribeiro, Aileen. History Today, Feb86, Vol. 36 Issue 2, p30, 6p, 8bw; (AN 4885564) OUTWARD APPEARANCES: THE DISPLAY OF WOMEN IN RESTORATION LONDON (ENGLAND) Author: PRITCHARD, WILLIAM JAMES Degree: PH.D. Institution: THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO 0330 Year: 1998 THEATRE OF THE FLESH: THE CARNIVAL OF VENICE AND THE THEATRE OF THE WORLD (THEATRUM MUNDI, ITALY) Author: GIURGEA, ADRIAN Degree: PH.D. Institution: UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, LOS ANGELES 0031 Year: 1987 Good luck! Althea On Mar 28, 2006, at 11:24 AM, Rachel Sampsel wrote: Hello, I am new to this list so before I continue, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Rachel Sampsel and in the SCA my personae name is Raisa Zaplatskaya, also called Patches. I've been playing in the SCA for a little bit and now I have gotten myself into a bit of a pickle: I've volunteered to run several plaster mask making workshops in anticipation of a masked ball. The organizer of the event would like to focus on a Venetian theme. Ok, no problem with that. The problem comes in when I'm researching Venetian masking traditions PRIOR to the 1600's. I’d like to offer a “brief history of” handout and I’m running into all kinds of problems. I've run across a number of masking sources on the internet, professional suppliers, amateur sites and so on that give a very romantic view of the masking tradition, but don't supply any bibliography. According to these sources, Venice had a strong masking tradition in everyday life prior to 1268 C.E. They swear up and down that it was VERY common for peasants through nobles to wear masks in public anytime they wanted to go about their “business” (legal and illegal) without anyone knowing who they were. These sources also swear that the first of many laws limiting the use of masks occurred in 1268 C.E. to try and put a cap on the illegal activities and moral declination of the city. Some sources hint that these were sumptuary laws and others that they were actual “masking use” laws. These sources don’t give me any reference material to work with and when I ask, they point me to another source that is equally frustrating in terms of giving me a bibliography. I have poured through every Venetian history book I can lay my hands on and can’t find a single reference to masks in this regard prior to Carnival becoming the city’s big money making attraction in the 18th century. Logically, if masks were that widespread, that common and a big enough problem that laws were enacted curtailing their manufacture and use, I should have found it in at least 1 history book, right? I mean, one book I tackled was Venice from 697 – 1797 and could provide socio- economic figures for the city by year and class as well as reported criminal statistics by neighborhood. Theoretically, if masking had become that detrimental to society, it would be deserving of at least a footnote, would it not? So my question is – does anyone have ANY idea on a reputable scholastic source for Venetian masking traditions prior to the 17th century? Is there maybe a database out there with medieval Venetian law codes that I can tear through or maybe a recognized scholarly authority SOMEWHERE on the subject? I really don’t want to look like a brainless twit on the subject when people start poppin’ questions at me. Any help would be appreciated at this juncture. Patches ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] quickie textile guide
Hey all, I have a friend who is not allowed to go to the fabric store without a keeper. :D She knows nothing about fabrics and likes shiny bright SHINY fabrics, which are rarely a natural fiber. So with her in mind, I am working on a quick guide that she, and others, can print out. I am sure I am leaving out important information so if you could check it out and let me know, I'd greatly appreciate it. The intended audience is re-enactors without much experience with fabrics or sewing. http://www.alfalfapress.com/dress/quickie_textile_guide.html This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! Althea Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide
Hi Ann! thanks for the comments! :D On Mar 28, 2006, at 7:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! There are several small errors or sort-of-but-not-quite truths here. Do you have a basic textile science book? Actually several. :D For example: The linen-rayon blends are generally cheaper than 100% linen. They are a good compromise if necessary. They have the added benefit of making the fabric less wrinkle prone. This statement is just not true. While linen does crease badly, rayon wrinkles like crazy. Besides, I don't recall seeing this particular blend. Cotton/linen, yes, and polyester/rayon (your linen look), yes. Our local Joanne's carries a linen/ rayon blend (currently on sale 30% off) and from experience with the fabric, it does wrinkle less. I've found the wrinkly-ness of rayon is dependent on the type of fabric. Rayon crepe can be worn for days with nary a wrinkle, but challis can wrinkle if you look at it crossly. Also, your discussion of flammability of manmade fibers vs natural ones; woolen/worsted. Not really sure what you mean here. Polyester and Nylon are much more flammable than natural fibers. And they do melt when burned. Flammable might not be the exact technical term, but it's a word everyone understands. The info on the worsted/ woolen is straight from of my books on textiles. If it is wrong, I'd be happy to change it. This guide is intended for folks who know NOTHING about fabrics and want to make good choices when venturing into the scary territory of a fabric store. I want to keep it extremely basic, but give suggestions so they steer clear of really bad fabric decisions. Thanks for the input! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: this list
Are you implying we're Red herrings? :D Actually I'm a pike. Althea On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote: The lecture that Robin is discussing right now is in Oregon, not too far from Portland, as the crow flies. I'm carpooling with 2 others down from the Seattle-Tacoma area to attend. Hey, anyone else willing to have a Red H or something so that we can identify ourselves at the lecture? I know there were others at the Sewing and Stitchery Expo at the beginning of this month, and would have liked to have been able to meet you. Angharad/ Jonnalyhn Wolfcat ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: this list
Hello, I will be at the lectures, also. Yeah! Althea On Mar 21, 2006, at 8:51 AM, Kahlara wrote: Message: 9 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:48:13 -0700 From: WickedFrau Subject: Re: [h-cost] this list Hi Julie, you can post pictures here if you like. You can create a new ablum. I sure wish someone would use it! I'll be attending Robin's lectures in Portland this weekend. With her permission I could post some pics? (I'm assuming she'll have a few examples to go with her topics) And of course, when the wedding costumes are all done I'll want to share, but that will have to wait til after June. http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=hcostume The userid is: indra2006 Sg Julie wrote: Maybe I'm just too used to the Yahoo groups, but does this list have a files, photos links section? Julie Annette M - Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear
Does anyone have similar info on nuns around 700? All I've found is the Rule of Ceasarius. Althea On Mar 15, 2006, at 6:16 AM, Lena wrote: --- Lloyd Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Makes one wonder what the daily Rule was. Kathleen Well, since the copies were still in my bag... In English only, 'cos I'm lazy: The clothing distributed to the brothers should vary according to local conditions and climate, because more is needed in cold regions and less in warmer. This is left to the abbot's discretion. We believe that for each monk a cowl and tunic [cucullam et tunicam] will suffice in temperate regions; in winter a woolen cowl is necessary, in summer a thinner or worn one; also a scapular [scapulare] for work, and footwear - both sandals and shoes [pedules et caligas]. [...] To provide for laundering and night wear, every monk will need two cowls and two tunics, but anything more must be taken away as superfluous. It doesn't say anything about hosen, but I'm not sure if that's due to the translation, or if Benedict wrote it with a mediterranean climate in mind. Or possibly they should just put up with the cold. /Lena ___ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http:// www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] DATE FOR Pirates o' de Carib
hello, Does anyone know what time the Pirates of the Caribbean was supposedly set in? It's not my period. My kids want costumes to wear to the premier this summer of Pirates part deaux. Thanks! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: Burger King costumes
That's our name for the character, That Creepy Plastic Guy But I have to admit to loving the commercial with the King and Darth Vader. :D Althea On Feb 7, 2006, at 5:37 PM, otsisto wrote: Of late their commercials are a bit weird IMO. And the King character creeps me out. De Former McDonald's crew. -Original Message- Dawn, My husband told me there was an interesting commerical from Burger King that I would like. During the mid-1970s, I worked at Burger King for 2 years of high school and one year of Jr. College. My kids hate it when I special order Whoppers. When I worked there Have it your way! was our slogan. And we were not to complain. I guess the advertising world is similar to the Fashion World, What goes around, comes around. Probably with film-making too... this ad looks very Busby Berkley-ish. My favorite was the onion costume. Penny E. Ladnier ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Laura de Pola's funky partlet
Where does one obtain a copy of this? I looked on amazon, but it's not there. many thanks! On Feb 3, 2006, at 7:29 AM, celtkin wrote: Moda a Firenze Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 16th c. costume experts?
On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:00 AM, Robin Netherton wrote: Costume, though, does not have anywhere near the established avenues. People who pursue costume-related degrees often do so in departments of art history, theater, literature, women's studies, economics, etc. depending on their interest, and establish themselves as scholars in that field with costume as a specialty. Or they may come from outside the academic context, but build experience by doing and presenting research. I can heartily agree with this. I am working on a doctorate in cultural and historical apparel so I've been keenly interested in job postings. I have not seen a single one (and I certainly may have missed some) come across my desk that didn't have fashion merchandising as the main focus. It's why I have an anthropology minor. I don't see me continuing in apparel departments, but I can find a place in anthropology. And don't get me started on grants, etc. Or the lack thereof in our field. My research is an out-of-the- book anthropological ethnographic study, but because I am in an apparel department, there is little to no grant money available, unless I get an anthropology prof to sponsor it. So all my research money is out of pocket which will limit what I can do. It's enough to make one cranky. Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] More to do in London questions
Hello all, I hope you will bear one more inquiry about things to do in and about London. There is a chance I will be there this fall with my two kids in order to do some research for my dissertation. My daughter who is keen on museums and quite fine with being hauled through museum after museum is delighted with the prospect. My son, however, is *not* in anyway keen on the idea of museums. He asked about whether there are any water parks in London. I had to admit I didn't know as my nose is usually pressed against the glass of some museum display or another whenever I visit London. So what is there to do in London (and elsewhere) for an active athletic lad of 12? Can anyone recommend websites? To make this costume related, can anyone recommend historical re- enactors in the UK that focus on Chivalry and who do fairly authentic costuming? Many thanks! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Laura de Pola
My grateful thanks to all who commented on this painting and garments. I think I have a handle on what is going on, at least enough to make a fair run at it. I will stop by the library to day to pick up Fashion Detail. I was also looking at Patterns of Fashion and found some similar couched cording in some of the photographs. I look forward to working on this. :D As for the design on dress, I agree with Joanna and it was likely a cord or braid. I gave the client the option of velvet or braid, depending on her comfort level. Again my thanks! Althea On Jan 7, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Joannah Hansen wrote: --- Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've been asked to help with this costume. 1544 http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/l/lotto/1531-/070pola.html I will likely use the de Toledo pattern for a basis. I've made a couple gowns with it before so I am familiar with it. I'm thinking it's a brown wool/ or silk with silk velvet ribbon appliqued on. I understand the chemise. But I don't really understand the wrap and head covering. Does anyone have an idea of what/ how it's made? thanks! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Althea, This isn't really an area that I'm very familiar with, so I'm going on what I can see in the portrait. As far as your base fabric goes, wool or silk sounds fine. But as far as the pattern on the fabric goes, I think that you're wrong about velvet ribbon. I agree that the pattern is most likely appliqued, but I don't think it's ribbon - I think that it's cord. Do you have, or can you look at a copy of 'Historical Costume in Detail - the 17th 18th Centuries' by Avril hart and Susan North? ( Yes, I know the painting is dated 1544 - bear with me :-) ) If you enlarge the portrait ( click on it and go to 100%, any larger and strangely it seems to lose definition ) and look at the edge of the Laura's right sleeve at the shoulder, you can see the profile of the cord above the fabric. I think that I can even make out a twist in the cord, too. Anyway, there are a pair of sleeves, made of green silk, featured in the book, which are decorated/patterned with cord which has been couched on. ( Description on p.28, picture on p.29. There is an even larger picture over pp.10 11. ) When ! I first looked at this portrait closely, this form of decoration and these sleeves leapt straight to my mind. As far as the partlet-collar-shawl-thingy goes, my first thought was that it looked like chenille! e.g. http://www.cocochenille.com/2brdichbe.html http://www.home-decorating-co.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc? Screen=PRODStore_Code=THDCProduct_Code=arabo_toffee_649720Product_C ount=Category_Code= http://www.minkydelight.com/chwr-110.html http://www.fabric.com/home-decor-fabric-upholstery-fabric-chenille- upholstery-fabric-chenille-fabric-br-diamonds-taupe.aspx Most of these designs are probably too big, but you get the idea. On closer inspection, I have no idea, really, but I think you could probably make a good approximation of the design with this technique: http://www.quiltbus.com/chenilling.htm Or use something like Rya stitch. The headgear is odd, but it certainly looks as if it is the same fabric as the partlet-thingy. Perhaps it is a close-fitting cap or coif, rather than a wrap or headband? Sitting over braids wrapped around the head, which give it that bulgy/padded look? If you made the cap of your base fabric and then added the 'rosettes' to it after you had the shape right.. no, I went back and looked at the picture again, whatever the fabric is, it was woven that way - you can see the partial rosettes on the edge of the partlet and on the front of the headgear, just above Laura's right ear. Well, that's how the original is, but you'll probably have to reproduce the fabric by some kind of embroidery, so my first suggestion is still valid, I guess. Whatever you decide, good luck with your project. Post some pictures when it's done, please? My 2 cents worth. Joannah _ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Laura de Pola
I still haven't been able to figure how that texture on the partlet and head dress is made. I'm thinking it's some kind of applied cording, but am not quite sure. Thanks! Althea On Jan 3, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Dawn wrote: Althea Turner wrote: Hello, I've been asked to help with this costume. 1544 http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/l/lotto/1531-/070pola.html I will likely use the de Toledo pattern for a basis. I've made a couple gowns with it before so I am familiar with it. I'm thinking it's a brown wool/ or silk with silk velvet ribbon appliqued on. I understand the chemise. But I don't really understand the wrap and head covering. Does anyone have an idea of what/ how it's made? thanks! The wrap looks like a partlet (I can see a collar) made from a heavily textured fabric, with fringe. It may be a size too small for the wearer, or maybe it's just painted badly. Not sure what's going on with the headdress in the same fabric. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Laura de Pola
Hello, I've been asked to help with this costume. 1544 http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/l/lotto/1531-/070pola.html I will likely use the de Toledo pattern for a basis. I've made a couple gowns with it before so I am familiar with it. I'm thinking it's a brown wool/ or silk with silk velvet ribbon appliqued on. I understand the chemise. But I don't really understand the wrap and head covering. Does anyone have an idea of what/ how it's made? thanks! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] what would you do with 14 yards of wool?
um, ... send it to me? *grin* it sounds like lovely tunic and overgown type stuff. Althea On Oct 14, 2005, at 12:18 PM, Dawn wrote: I've got 14 yards of plain medium-dark green (somewhere between emerald and forest) wool. It's lovely and soft and about t-shirt weight. I thought I might make cloaks out of it, but it seems a little light. What would you do? Any time, any place... Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] the 20th century
Without a doubt ... platform sneakers. :D Althea On Sep 22, 2005, at 2:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All this talk about like one century or another... Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing thing will be that defines it? Y'knowwhat quality will it be known for, you think? What garment? I have my own answers but I wonder what others think. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] FYI - Ladies costume inspired by the court of Napoleon
Hiya, The bees depicted on this fabric were first found in the grave of Childeric I and used to strengthen the Hapsburg claim to the throne of France in some obscure way that still eludes me. :D Something about fleur de lys being Bourbon. So Napoleon used the bees in a political way to impress and to tie his reign to those of the past. Althea On Sep 15, 2005, at 7:54 PM, david webb wrote: http://www.guildford.gov.uk/GuildfordWeb/Leisure/Guildford+House/ Exhibitions/Golden+Bees+Costume.htm Golden Bees : An exhibition of ladies costume inspired by the Court of Napoleon. from 21 September to 22 October 2005 Guildford House Gallery hosts an exhibition of costume made by local costume maker Sarah Vickery. Sarah has been a dedicated member of the Napoleonic Association, a world-wide research and re-enactment society for the past 12 years. She specialises the designing and making of period clothing inspired by the ladies of the Napoleonic Court. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] collages and hurricane relief
Oregon State University is also taking in hurricane displaced students. We have both a theater and textiles program. It's a great place to live, but I'm tremendously biased. :D Althea ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] speaking of colors
Hiya, I came across this dissertation and thought you might be interested... LE BLASON DES COULEURS: A TREATISE ON COLOR THEORY AND SYMBOLISM IN NORTHERN EUROPE DURING THE EARLY RENAISSANCE Author: NELSON, ELIZABETH Degree: PH.D. Institution: BROWN UNIVERSITY 0024 Year: 1998 Althea Turner *** [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Future garments again
Hello, I do think that India and China will become much more influential in the next 20-30 years, and not just in fashion. (Don't get me started on the state of education in this country. I'm constantly appalled at the simple words and concepts of which my university junior and seniors have no knowledge. Examples, 'calendrical', 'intimate', and 'monarchy') US companies will continue to shop around for the best deal in apparel production, because the majority of the market in the US is in the budget/ low-end range. People are not willing to spend the money on higher priced/ higher quality garments. It's simple economics, really. It's why I try my hardest to avoid the box stores when possible. Companies like LL Bean and Pendleton have found niche markets catering to a customer that desires a higher quality at a higher price. Unless things have changed recently, both companies manufacture mostly in the US, with the exception of a few items. YMMV, Althea On Saturday, July 16, 2005, at 09:40 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: Do you suppose that in the next 20 or 30 years India and China will become important world powers, and start driving more fashion trends instead of being places the US goes to have things made cheap? As for outsourcing garment manufacture, I think the US will continue doing it, but somewhere other than in those countries if wages rise there. Althea Turner *** [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Future garments again
Hello again :) Yes, Pendleton does do some off-shore production, but their emphasis is still on quality. I don't really know if this translates into higher wages/ better conditions for workers in Mexico. I should look into it. I'm sure one of my students will ask about it. :) There are other companies, such as Winter Sun, that produces off-shore but works very closely with the workers to create a unique garment and enrich (a Western concept, to be sure) their lives. This company also uses a local tree nut as the source of their buttons, which helps to preserve the local environment. So off-shore sourcing does not automatically means 'bad'. But it takes a LOT of work and time and money to bring it above slave wage. (oops, my bias is showing) As to Western dress in India, from what I have read, it is usually the males that adopt world dress first. We already have many influences making the way from India (sari fabric, mendhi (Sp)). I think it is rather unfortunate that one mode of dress is coming to dominate. There are so many beautiful styles of dress out there, especially the sari. Althea On Saturday, July 16, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Wanda Pease wrote: Umm... As a long time Pendleton customer, at least for the fabric, and Pendleton, Oregon native I have to tell you that must of the clothing is actually manufactured in places like Mexico. The woolen fabric is woven here in Pendleton, Portland, and Washougal, WA, but the clothing is put together elsewhere. The Blankets are made here though! :-) The mill outlets are EVIL places. What you see is what you get; however when that happens you can get beautiful yardage for $10 a yard and under! On the other hand doesn't it seem like current western fashion (shirts, pants, etc.) have pretty much taken over from traditional garments? India is one of the few places where I see women in things like sari's, salwar's and cameeze. Even then the children are frequently in pants and shirts that look like they originally came from a US catalogue. Regina snip It's why I try my hardest to avoid the box stores when possible. Companies like LL Bean and Pendleton have found niche markets catering to a customer that desires a higher quality at a higher price. Unless things have changed recently, both companies manufacture mostly in the US, with the exception of a few items. YMMV, Althea ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner *** [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
