Re: [h-cost] Laura de Pola
My grateful thanks to all who commented on this painting and garments. I think I have a handle on what is going on, at least enough to make a fair run at it. I will stop by the library to day to pick up Fashion Detail. I was also looking at Patterns of Fashion and found some similar couched cording in some of the photographs. I look forward to working on this. :D As for the design on dress, I agree with Joanna and it was likely a cord or braid. I gave the client the option of velvet or braid, depending on her comfort level. Again my thanks! Althea On Jan 7, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Joannah Hansen wrote: --- Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've been asked to help with this costume. 1544 http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/l/lotto/1531-/070pola.html I will likely use the de Toledo pattern for a basis. I've made a couple gowns with it before so I am familiar with it. I'm thinking it's a brown wool/ or silk with silk velvet ribbon appliqued on. I understand the chemise. But I don't really understand the wrap and head covering. Does anyone have an idea of what/ how it's made? thanks! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Althea, This isn't really an area that I'm very familiar with, so I'm going on what I can see in the portrait. As far as your base fabric goes, wool or silk sounds fine. But as far as the pattern on the fabric goes, I think that you're wrong about velvet ribbon. I agree that the pattern is most likely appliqued, but I don't think it's ribbon - I think that it's cord. Do you have, or can you look at a copy of 'Historical Costume in Detail - the 17th 18th Centuries' by Avril hart and Susan North? ( Yes, I know the painting is dated 1544 - bear with me :-) ) If you enlarge the portrait ( click on it and go to 100%, any larger and strangely it seems to lose definition ) and look at the edge of the Laura's right sleeve at the shoulder, you can see the profile of the cord above the fabric. I think that I can even make out a twist in the cord, too. Anyway, there are a pair of sleeves, made of green silk, featured in the book, which are decorated/patterned with cord which has been couched on. ( Description on p.28, picture on p.29. There is an even larger picture over pp.10 11. ) When ! I first looked at this portrait closely, this form of decoration and these sleeves leapt straight to my mind. As far as the partlet-collar-shawl-thingy goes, my first thought was that it looked like chenille! e.g. http://www.cocochenille.com/2brdichbe.html http://www.home-decorating-co.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc? Screen=PRODStore_Code=THDCProduct_Code=arabo_toffee_649720Product_C ount=Category_Code= http://www.minkydelight.com/chwr-110.html http://www.fabric.com/home-decor-fabric-upholstery-fabric-chenille- upholstery-fabric-chenille-fabric-br-diamonds-taupe.aspx Most of these designs are probably too big, but you get the idea. On closer inspection, I have no idea, really, but I think you could probably make a good approximation of the design with this technique: http://www.quiltbus.com/chenilling.htm Or use something like Rya stitch. The headgear is odd, but it certainly looks as if it is the same fabric as the partlet-thingy. Perhaps it is a close-fitting cap or coif, rather than a wrap or headband? Sitting over braids wrapped around the head, which give it that bulgy/padded look? If you made the cap of your base fabric and then added the 'rosettes' to it after you had the shape right.. no, I went back and looked at the picture again, whatever the fabric is, it was woven that way - you can see the partial rosettes on the edge of the partlet and on the front of the headgear, just above Laura's right ear. Well, that's how the original is, but you'll probably have to reproduce the fabric by some kind of embroidery, so my first suggestion is still valid, I guess. Whatever you decide, good luck with your project. Post some pictures when it's done, please? My 2 cents worth. Joannah _ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Laura de Pola
--- Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've been asked to help with this costume. 1544 http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/l/lotto/1531-/070pola.html I will likely use the de Toledo pattern for a basis. I've made a couple gowns with it before so I am familiar with it. I'm thinking it's a brown wool/ or silk with silk velvet ribbon appliqued on. I understand the chemise. But I don't really understand the wrap and head covering. Does anyone have an idea of what/ how it's made? thanks! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Althea, This isn't really an area that I'm very familiar with, so I'm going on what I can see in the portrait. As far as your base fabric goes, wool or silk sounds fine. But as far as the pattern on the fabric goes, I think that you're wrong about velvet ribbon. I agree that the pattern is most likely appliqued, but I don't think it's ribbon - I think that it's cord. Do you have, or can you look at a copy of 'Historical Costume in Detail - the 17th 18th Centuries' by Avril hart and Susan North? ( Yes, I know the painting is dated 1544 - bear with me :-) ) If you enlarge the portrait ( click on it and go to 100%, any larger and strangely it seems to lose definition ) and look at the edge of the Laura's right sleeve at the shoulder, you can see the profile of the cord above the fabric. I think that I can even make out a twist in the cord, too. Anyway, there are a pair of sleeves, made of green silk, featured in the book, which are decorated/patterned with cord which has been couched on. ( Description on p.28, picture on p.29. There is an even larger picture over pp.10 11. ) When ! I first looked at this portrait closely, this form of decoration and these sleeves leapt straight to my mind. As far as the partlet-collar-shawl-thingy goes, my first thought was that it looked like chenille! e.g. http://www.cocochenille.com/2brdichbe.html http://www.home-decorating-co.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PRODStore_Code=THDCProduct_Code=arabo_toffee_649720Product_Count=Category_Code= http://www.minkydelight.com/chwr-110.html http://www.fabric.com/home-decor-fabric-upholstery-fabric-chenille-upholstery-fabric-chenille-fabric-br-diamonds-taupe.aspx Most of these designs are probably too big, but you get the idea. On closer inspection, I have no idea, really, but I think you could probably make a good approximation of the design with this technique: http://www.quiltbus.com/chenilling.htm Or use something like Rya stitch. The headgear is odd, but it certainly looks as if it is the same fabric as the partlet-thingy. Perhaps it is a close-fitting cap or coif, rather than a wrap or headband? Sitting over braids wrapped around the head, which give it that bulgy/padded look? If you made the cap of your base fabric and then added the 'rosettes' to it after you had the shape right.. no, I went back and looked at the picture again, whatever the fabric is, it was woven that way - you can see the partial rosettes on the edge of the partlet and on the front of the headgear, just above Laura's right ear. Well, that's how the original is, but you'll probably have to reproduce the fabric by some kind of embroidery, so my first suggestion is still valid, I guess. Whatever you decide, good luck with your project. Post some pictures when it's done, please? My 2 cents worth. Joannah _ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Laura de Pola
Could it be stump work? De -Original Message- I still haven't been able to figure how that texture on the partlet and head dress is made. I'm thinking it's some kind of applied cording, but am not quite sure. Thanks! Althea ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Laura de Pola
How odd, this post was sent two - three days ago way before another person had said anything about the possibility of it being stumpwork and now it shows up. Anyway, I have seen something like this partlet but for the life of me I can't seem to remember where or what kind of technique it is. I have a feeling that I have seen the technique done by a long past relative but not sure. De -Original Message- Could it be stump work? De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Laura de Pola
How odd, this post was sent two - three days ago way before another person had said anything about the possibility of it being stumpwork and now it shows up. Anyway, I have seen something like this partlet but for the life of me I can't seem to remember where or what kind of technique it is. I have a feeling that I have seen the technique done by a long past relative but not sure. There is a pair of sleeves cut from late 17thC fabric that is decorated and has a very similar texture. A close up is seen in Historical Fashion in Detail.. or Historic Fashion in Detail.. I can never remember. Also the sleeves are seen in a catalogue from the Ehizabeth I exhibition at the National Maritime Museum (UK.) Fat cord is covered in the came colour silk as the ground and sewn down with stitches in the same silk. The stitches seem to rest in the grooves of the cording underneath so you get the same texture as the cording. There are bugle beads sewn down and tufts all worked with the same silk as well. I think this is going tobe the closest technique for the partlet. In regards to the recent bugginess. I have requently in the last few months had posts arrive out of order. Not just on this list either. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.15/223 - Release Date: 6/01/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Laura de Pola
I still haven't been able to figure how that texture on the partlet and head dress is made. I'm thinking it's some kind of applied cording, but am not quite sure. Thanks! Althea On Jan 3, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Dawn wrote: Althea Turner wrote: Hello, I've been asked to help with this costume. 1544 http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/l/lotto/1531-/070pola.html I will likely use the de Toledo pattern for a basis. I've made a couple gowns with it before so I am familiar with it. I'm thinking it's a brown wool/ or silk with silk velvet ribbon appliqued on. I understand the chemise. But I don't really understand the wrap and head covering. Does anyone have an idea of what/ how it's made? thanks! The wrap looks like a partlet (I can see a collar) made from a heavily textured fabric, with fringe. It may be a size too small for the wearer, or maybe it's just painted badly. Not sure what's going on with the headdress in the same fabric. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Laura de Pola
At 19:33 05/01/2006, you wrote: I still haven't been able to figure how that texture on the partlet and head dress is made. I'm thinking it's some kind of applied cording, but am not quite sure. I've been asked to help with this costume. 1544 http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/l/lotto/1531-/070pola.html I will likely use the de Toledo pattern for a basis. I've made a couple gowns with it before so I am familiar with it. I'm thinking it's a brown wool/ or silk with silk velvet ribbon appliqued on. I understand the chemise. But I don't really understand the wrap and head covering. Does anyone have an idea of what/ how it's made? thanks! The wrap looks like a partlet (I can see a collar) made from a heavily textured fabric, with fringe. It may be a size too small for the wearer, or maybe it's just painted badly. I found a fabric with a raised pattern for Anne Boleyn a year or so ago. It is red/gold brocade and has a raised pattern all over. It is very lovely and very expensive. It would not do for copying the portrait, but it is an example of a raised pattern being made today. The original might have been stamped with a die? You can see mine here if you want. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/Cropped-Boleyn.jpg Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Laura de Pola
Hello, I've been asked to help with this costume. 1544 http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/l/lotto/1531-/070pola.html I will likely use the de Toledo pattern for a basis. I've made a couple gowns with it before so I am familiar with it. I'm thinking it's a brown wool/ or silk with silk velvet ribbon appliqued on. I understand the chemise. But I don't really understand the wrap and head covering. Does anyone have an idea of what/ how it's made? thanks! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Laura de Pola
Althea Turner wrote: Hello, I've been asked to help with this costume. 1544 http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/l/lotto/1531-/070pola.html I will likely use the de Toledo pattern for a basis. I've made a couple gowns with it before so I am familiar with it. I'm thinking it's a brown wool/ or silk with silk velvet ribbon appliqued on. I understand the chemise. But I don't really understand the wrap and head covering. Does anyone have an idea of what/ how it's made? thanks! The wrap looks like a partlet (I can see a collar) made from a heavily textured fabric, with fringe. It may be a size too small for the wearer, or maybe it's just painted badly. Not sure what's going on with the headdress in the same fabric. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
