Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic-getting OT but can't help myself
On May 4, 2007, at 12:25 AM, Chris Laning wrote: What I don't think is legitimate is to take half-baked or widely criticized ideas (aliens building the pyramids, anyone?) and present them as sober historical fact WITHOUT planting plenty of clues that you're not _really_ serious. I didn't see "Shakespeare in Love," but those who watched it closely tell me that a Stratford-on-Avon souvenir mug appeared fairly prominently, early in the film. Nice touch. What?! Aliens didn't build the pyramids? You must not listen to Coast to Coast AM! Sylrog ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat, 5 May 2007 4:07 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic One of the neatest things I remember from 1968" "Romeo and Juliet" was when our teacher pointed out that there were colors for each family---Capulets were in warm tones and Montagues in cool tones. And after Juliet marries, she changes to the cool tones of the Montagues. ** But this is always done with R&J. The Montagues usually go in cool colors because Romeo is so melancholy at 1st and the Capulets go warm because of Juliet's liveliness and energy at 1st. Either a color thing or the Monagues are done as country folk and the Capulets are city folk...or sometimes both ideas are used. The designs for the film are amazing. It goes deeper than just color. The Capulets are not just in warm colors, but also have an arrogance to their dress and style. As people get killed, everyone goes into dark colors of mourning. Even Juilet's wedding outfit is heavy and oppressive with a dark veil. Beautiful unusual but perfect choice. I just saw NYCB's new production of Prokofiev's R&J. The Montagues are all in greens and blues, and the Capulets are in reds and yellows. But God, is it the ugliest design I've seen in a long time! The pas de deu of the "Balcony scene" was beautiful though. The music to this ballet is amazing! AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
One of the neatest things I remember from 1968" "Romeo and Juliet" was when our teacher pointed out that there were colors for each family---Capulets were in warm tones and Montagues in cool tones. And after Juliet marries, she changes to the cool tones of the Montagues. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaggiRos Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic That's it exactly. I've concluded that since they're making up the "history" they might as well make up the costumes too. I've also stopped trying to watch it, and picked up a fresh DVD copy of Keith Michell's Six Wives of Henry VIII from the 70s. What a joy to watch. That show was on a limited budget, and yet everything looks (from camera distance) perfect! I feel much better now. MaggiRos ~who loves A Knight's Tale a whole lot --- Sharon Collier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think what really bothers me is when some costumes > are authentic or at > least close and others are so far off as to be > "fantasy". The mens' costumes > in The Tudors look close, but the women's, with the > loose hair, bare > arms/shoulders, are further out. To me, they don't > match stylistically and > that jars. > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
My friend saw those costumes in person some years back. They were mostly made of muslin and painted to look like velvets, etc. She said they were amazing! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaggiRos Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic That's it exactly. I've concluded that since they're making up the "history" they might as well make up the costumes too. I've also stopped trying to watch it, and picked up a fresh DVD copy of Keith Michell's Six Wives of Henry VIII from the 70s. What a joy to watch. That show was on a limited budget, and yet everything looks (from camera distance) perfect! I feel much better now. MaggiRos ~who loves A Knight's Tale a whole lot --- Sharon Collier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think what really bothers me is when some costumes > are authentic or at > least close and others are so far off as to be > "fantasy". The mens' costumes > in The Tudors look close, but the women's, with the > loose hair, bare > arms/shoulders, are further out. To me, they don't > match stylistically and > that jars. > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
And we can all add to the lists where this decision was a blatant mistake...I think Kathlwwn - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic In a message dated 5/4/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The film people seem to make decisions of Costume that must bow to present aesthitcs... According to Ed Maeder, in his "Hollywood and History," that accompanied an exhibit of the same name from LACMA some years ago, makeup and hairstyles in films very often reflect the contemporary aesthetic, even if the costumes do not so much. Ann Wass ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
Having been otherwise a" about these costumes when the Robbin Hood series began, I do remember the Aghast!!! about the costumes. For me, this has been a low budget series with an expanded mythology re 'the HOOD' that at least is on a plane with the old Dr. Who, and has used stereotypical designs to give flesh to the characters. The only jarring moment was a character in a sort of trilby that was Plainly modern (well, 1960s),with another coat roughly 1970s interp of a Medieval surcoat. then, most of the garments are also of the '70s...interpreting the 12/14 Centuries. As long as there is some consistancy, I don't have a problem...Precisley why I also like the "Knight's Tale." kathleen -- Original Message - From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic At 05:13 PM 5/4/2007, you wrote: MaggiRos ~who loves A Knight's Tale a whole lot >. (grin) So do I. In fact, I just watched it today. Dianne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
At 05:13 PM 5/4/2007, you wrote: MaggiRos ~who loves A Knight's Tale a whole lot >. (grin) So do I. In fact, I just watched it today. Dianne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
In a message dated 5/4/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The film people seem to make decisions of Costume that must bow to present aesthitcs... According to Ed Maeder, in his "Hollywood and History," that accompanied an exhibit of the same name from LACMA some years ago, makeup and hairstyles in films very often reflect the contemporary aesthetic, even if the costumes do not so much. Ann Wass ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
This was my problem with the latest Marie Antionette. The women's hair in general was way off. The film people seem to make decisions of Costume that must bow to present aesthitcs...that, and the need to use modern music in case the viewers might have missed a contemporary mood/thought about MA being a Modern woman. Kathleen From: "Sharon Collier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Historical Costume'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic I think what really bothers me is when some costumes are authentic or at least close and others are so far off as to be "fantasy". The mens' costumes in The Tudors look close, but the women's, with the loose hair, bare arms/shoulders, are further out. To me, they don't match stylistically and that jars. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic In a message dated 5/4/2007 2:26:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The REAL irritation is that film directors (etc.) blithely do whatever they think "feels right" with the costumes AND then have the audacity to claim that their renditions are "accurate", "thoroughly researched," Well said! I think most of us can appreciate "it's theatre," so long as everyone involved admits that is what it is. Ann Wass ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
That's it exactly. I've concluded that since they're making up the "history" they might as well make up the costumes too. I've also stopped trying to watch it, and picked up a fresh DVD copy of Keith Michell's Six Wives of Henry VIII from the 70s. What a joy to watch. That show was on a limited budget, and yet everything looks (from camera distance) perfect! I feel much better now. MaggiRos ~who loves A Knight's Tale a whole lot --- Sharon Collier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think what really bothers me is when some costumes > are authentic or at > least close and others are so far off as to be > "fantasy". The mens' costumes > in The Tudors look close, but the women's, with the > loose hair, bare > arms/shoulders, are further out. To me, they don't > match stylistically and > that jars. > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
I think what really bothers me is when some costumes are authentic or at least close and others are so far off as to be "fantasy". The mens' costumes in The Tudors look close, but the women's, with the loose hair, bare arms/shoulders, are further out. To me, they don't match stylistically and that jars. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic In a message dated 5/4/2007 2:26:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The REAL irritation is that film directors (etc.) blithely do whatever they think "feels right" with the costumes AND then have the audacity to claim that their renditions are "accurate", "thoroughly researched," Well said! I think most of us can appreciate "it's theatre," so long as everyone involved admits that is what it is. Ann Wass ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
In a message dated 5/4/2007 2:26:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The REAL irritation is that film directors (etc.) blithely do whatever they think "feels right" with the costumes AND then have the audacity to claim that their renditions are "accurate", "thoroughly researched," Well said! I think most of us can appreciate "it's theatre," so long as everyone involved admits that is what it is. Ann Wass ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic
On May 3, 2007, at 3:30 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: It occurs to me that the productions that get the most criticism on this list are historical drama, particularly those that purport to be realistic (say, "Elizabeth," which offered film-linked packets for school history programs as part of its marketing, as opposed to "Orlando," which was also set partly at the Elizabethan court but had a strong fantastical/ satirical element). Yes. For me, at least, less-than-accurate costumes are not really the problem. The REAL irritation is that film directors (etc.) blithely do whatever they think "feels right" with the costumes AND then have the audacity to claim that their renditions are "accurate", "thoroughly researched," and (deities help us) "educational." Which thoroughly -- and unnecessarily -- confuses anyone who actually IS trying to do research and/or education. If they would stop making the silly claims, the clothing wouldn't matter nearly as much. The same goes for messing with history for the sake of the plot. It's OK to invent how history might have been, or could have been if things had happened differently, or how modern people would react if put in that situation, or for that matter, it's OK to produce allegories about modern times disguised as "history." What is NOT OK is to then claim that your rendition is somehow "more true" than what actually happened, or to produce school education packets asserting that real historical figures actually DID what you have imagined. Of course, I think it's quite legitimate to present a different "take" on real history as "the real thing" when there actually IS historical evidence for it. Scholars can, do, and always will differ on what actually happened and why. What I don't think is legitimate is to take half-baked or widely criticized ideas (aliens building the pyramids, anyone?) and present them as sober historical fact WITHOUT planting plenty of clues that you're not _really_ serious. I didn't see "Shakespeare in Love," but those who watched it closely tell me that a Stratford-on-Avon souvenir mug appeared fairly prominently, early in the film. Nice touch. OChris Laning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
