[h-cost] Underwear Review of Arnold vol 4
here is an interesting article about the meaning of displaying glimpses of underwear in different periods, with a few good illustrations if you persevere, you will find a review of the latest Janet Arnold Patterns of Fashion book, which is just being published http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7689554.stm Enjoy! Linda Walton High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear Review of Arnold vol 4
Linda Walton wrote: if you persevere, you will find a review of the latest Janet Arnold Patterns of Fashion book, which is just being published http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7689554.stm Thank you! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent Such virtue hath my pen -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 I knew this wasn't _my_ pen! --Cynthia Virtue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear Review of Arnold vol 4
Amazon UK has it on sale for 15 pounds: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Patterns-Fashion-construction-neckwear-accessories/d p/0333570820 An added bonus is if the book is further reduced before publication, you pay the lowest price. I hope Amazon UK is prepared for the H-Cost influx. I've ordered mine!!! Glenda. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear Review of Arnold vol 4
Glenda Robinson wrote: Amazon UK has it on sale for 15 pounds: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Patterns-Fashion-construction-neckwear-accessories/d p/0333570820 An added bonus is if the book is further reduced before publication, you pay the lowest price. I hope Amazon UK is prepared for the H-Cost influx. I've ordered mine!!! Same here. I ended up saving about $15 over the Canadian price, even including the overseas shipping. Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear Review of Arnold vol 4
I believe there's a number of librarians on this list, like myself. Did anyone else note the first image of the be-spectacled models clutching red books matching their scarlet bras? Naughty librarians! Note to self - must buy red bra. Second note to self - don't forget to button up shirt before going to work, though. Sheridan Alder http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7689554.stm ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear Review of Arnold vol 4
I suppose it makes a change from the stereotypes of those in the Nursing profession. Glenda ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Underwear
Only the Shadow knows... Oh, I haven't heard that one in years. The horror of it all is that I remember listening to it on the Big living room sized radio! Maybe that's why I remember the horrors of the monthly Attack of the Slime Monster and the attendant unpleasantness. However, those memories have blissfully faded with the time of the great release! Regina ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Underwear
At 07:13 PM 9/16/2007, you wrote: Only the Shadow knows... Oh, I haven't heard that one in years. The horror of it all is that I remember listening to it on the Big living room sized radio! Maybe that's why I remember the horrors of the monthly Attack of the Slime Monster and the attendant unpleasantness. However, those memories have blissfully faded with the time of the great release! Regina You can have it all back... Old Time Radio Download them all (well almost all). GRINS http://www.archive.org/details/The-Shadow Genie Whose sister listens to these all the time. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Underwear
http://www.randyasplund.com/browse/medieval/chausse1.html Scroll down to the first of the last two pictures. These are not as loose as the previous. Similar to a previously presented print. http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/Semiramis.gif De -Original Message- Only the Shadow knows... OK, actually the Shadow doesn't know either. Nobody knows. But it seems unlikely that menstruation would have had a big effect on braies-wearing, since they wouldn't have been snug enough to keep anything in place. Immediately before modern adhesive pads came into use, a belt-and-pad arrangement was the norm-- it's possible that Medieval women had something similar. -- Adele de Maisieres - Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Underwear
I understand the there is no evidence one way or the other about women wearing underpants in pre-16th century Europe. but what about during their menses? I haven't done any research, but I would speculate that they would need to wrap or tie something around them in order to keep the linen pads in place. I defer to those that know a lot more than I do about such things to enlighten me. :) On a personal note, having managed to trip over a tent-rope at an event and end up with my kirtle about my head, I'm very glad that I don't conform to commando practices. - Tori [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/14/2007 2:00 PM Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of h-costume digest... Today's Topics: 1. RE: comfort vs. fashion (Rickard, Patty ) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:43:15 -0400 From: Rickard, Patty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [h-cost] comfort vs. fashion To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Actually, I'm part of the generation that found pantyhose a Much more comfortable option than stockings, garterbelt (or girdle) and garters. (Of course, this begs the question of stockings to begin with.) Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JAMES OGILVIE Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] comfort vs. fashion Anyone who thinks that people wear clothing for comfort and practicality should contemplate the wearing of pantihose. Janet It is surely interesting to think logically about such a problem, but, just as you say, we can never rely on it, and, as we all know, people didn't always act very logically and didn't choose the most comfortable garments they could. Think of all those corsets and hoop petticoats and cage crinolines - the latest being worn even by lower-class working women that would surely need a more practical dress than the bourgeoise and nobility. While it's certainly true that some fashions are more inconvenient than others on a purely practical level, I think that saying that people acted illogically and chose uncomfortable garments is misleading. We tend to think that our current fashion is the most logical, comfortable, and lovely one, but people in the past thought the same thing So I must agree with Heather that it's dangerous to use modern ideas of what is comfortable to evaluate historical clothing practices. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 425 * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear
Tori Ruhl wrote: I understand the there is no evidence one way or the other about women wearing underpants in pre-16th century Europe. but what about during their menses? I haven't done any research, but I would speculate that they would need to wrap or tie something around them in order to keep the linen pads in place. There was a discussion on this very subject here in Jan 06, if you want to look up what's already been posted. Not that new discussion isn't wanted, but you can read what folks have already figured out, and what theories we have. ARCHIVES: To search by keyword, use Eric Praetzel's searchable archive at: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion I'm sure there are older discussions too, as this topic comes up on nearly every costume group I've been on. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear
On 9/14/07, Tori Ruhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand the there is no evidence one way or the other about women wearing underpants in pre-16th century Europe. but what about during their menses? They wore them in 15th c. Spain per The Hispanic Costume Book 1480-1530. They adopted them from the Moors sarawil and were made of linen and were tied with a drawstring around the waist. They reached to just below the knee where they met the stockings. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear
Tori Ruhl wrote: I understand the there is no evidence one way or the other about women wearing underpants in pre-16th century Europe. but what about during their menses? I haven't done any research, but I would speculate that they would need to wrap or tie something around them in order to keep the linen pads in place. I defer to those that know a lot more than I do about such things to enlighten me. :) Only the Shadow knows... OK, actually the Shadow doesn't know either. Nobody knows. But it seems unlikely that menstruation would have had a big effect on braies-wearing, since they wouldn't have been snug enough to keep anything in place. Immediately before modern adhesive pads came into use, a belt-and-pad arrangement was the norm-- it's possible that Medieval women had something similar. -- Adele de Maisieres - Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear, Demystified
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Kathy Page wrote: I think that's it for now, I hope I have taken care of the immediate burning questions. I so far have approximate yardage requirements and cutting layouts scribbled out. Next will be to stew the rest of the information into something more palatable and to make mock ups to confirm my theories. Once that's done... I'll be ready to start writing it into a final finding paper. :-D Which you will be presenting ... where? A broad hit brought to you by the organizer of the Dress and Textiles track at the International Congress on Medieval Studies at Kalamazoo. (And yes, it's a very good idea to present before you publish. It's like a first layer of peer review.) --Robin == Robin Netherton Editor, Medieval Clothing and Textiles [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 Life is just a bowl of queries. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear, Demystified
Okay, the cool stuff everyone has been looking forward to: Underwear Mythbusting. Kathy, I finally was able to look at the pictures on Bella's website and see what you were talking about in your post. How totally cool that you were able to find out this info for yourself but also share it with us! Thanks! And I will certainly buy your book when it comes out ;~ Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Underwear, Demystified
I'm back!!! And frivolously cross posting this all over the place;please pardon my excitement. : I have to say (yet again!), any photo I have *ever* seen will not do those garments justice! This was a most amazing experience. I have to thank Nikki a million times over for being a patient and humourous compass. I, being the directionally impaired, would not have made it *to* the Met, let alone around the island and then home! It was luck of the draw we got along so well, having only met once for about an hour the year previous. Thankyouthankyouthankyou!! Okay, the cool stuff everyone has been looking forward to: Underwear Mythbusting. I won't have complete data available right away, I still have to crunch it into a readable format, however I can happily say that even the museum staff were impressed with the level of detail I was painstakingly dragging the Most Patient Nikki through. She recorded as fast as she could while I fired numbers and terms at her as fast as she could write. After four hours she was just about mental mush. By hour six, so was I - but could have kept going! You have much to look forward to in the coming months. :-) Myth #1 The Stained Drawers They are not in any way stained by blood. They are not even stained in the right place for it to be blood of natural causes. The photos that we are all used to have some kind of strange shadow artifact. We have mapped out the stains, however the stains are not *nearly* as dark as the photos suggest. My suspicion is, the inks used to trace out the embroidery pattern leeched into subsequent layers when the garment got wet while being folded. There is no evidence that suggests that someone tried to remove the stains which tells me they haven't been used since the stains occured. In fact, none of these garments look like they have been used, ever. This one garment though has taken a beating of some kind; it has substantial evidence of poor-quality repair work throught the seams and embroidery. The fabric shows no wear that says it was actually damaged through actual use, though. Myth #1A The Stained Drawers have a front and back V opening Not true. The back should have a seam in it; the seam has torn away down from the waist, but has done so cleanly enough that it appears to have a seam finish. The waistband is supposed to be a casing that a drawstring runs though. Myth #2 - The Gathered Drawers are crotchless Patently untrue. In fact they are gusseted, just as the other above is. It's just a really long opening. They are just like any other pair of knickers one might envision. I have to say though that the sewing on this garment is just... incredible. The seams are as sturdy and perfect as the day they were made. So much so I couldn't find the selvedge edge inside the seams. And the stitches are so perfectly repeated and tiny, it looks as if a machine had made them. Myth #2A - The Gathered Drawers are closed with a button Again, untrue. They have two small eyelets for a point tie to pass through. The pattern down the opening is goldwork, as is the rest of the embellishment which excited me to no end. Goldwork embroidery is my new obsession so I get to decorate to my heart's content. Given the nature of goldwork though, it's amazing that the embroidery is still in perfect condition at the opening. This point leads me to further believe this trousseau was never worn. Myth #3 - The Stockings were once sleeves I totally disagree with this supposition. They have piecing in them that are absolutely identical to one another which says to me that it was a part of the cutting design. They are also above the knee stockings so the photos simply have not given relevant context to their dimensions. I would hazard that the intended wearer was roughly my height (5'5); if I compare the overall length of the stocking to my own leg, it sits perfectly above my knee by about 2 inches. I have some numbers and formulae I can use to establish this for certain, I just have to crunch it and see what pops out. I want to roughly estimate the overall size of the intended wearer so I can better understand how the clothing sat on the body. Myth #4 - The Gathered Chemise is blackworked I'll leave embroidery technique out of this for a moment and say no, indeed it is not *black* work - it is mauve and plum. Yes, purple, to be general about it. And somewhat variegated at that. It was such an odd shade of purple that we couldn't find an accurate match to them in the swatch book. Basically, the colour codes we have are close in value, but one must sadden the tone considerably. Myth #5 - The Ungathered Chemise has been tampered with considerably Most certainly has been; this one is confirmed without a doubt. The lower hem embellishment is petit point cross stitch in a totally wrong style of embroidery. In fact, the whole thing looked so far off from what I have seen in the other items in this collection, I left that one to
Re: [h-cost] Underwear, Demystified
Absolutely wonderful detail; however, for those of us who don't remember, just WHAT underwear are you talking about? Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Kathy Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume List h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:50:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [h-cost] Underwear, Demystified I'm back!!! And frivolously cross posting this all over the place;please pardon my excitement. : I have to say (yet again!), any photo I have *ever* seen will not do those garments justice! This was a most amazing experience. I have to thank Nikki a million times over for being a patient and humourous compass. I, being the directionally impaired, would not have made it *to* the Met, let alone around the island and then home! It was luck of the draw we got along so well, having only met once for about an hour the year previous. Thankyouthankyouthankyou!! Okay, the cool stuff everyone has been looking forward to: Underwear Mythbusting. I won't have complete data available right away, I still have to crunch it into a readable format, however I can happily say that even the museum staff were impressed with the level of detail I was painstakingly dragging the Most Patient Nikki through. She recorded as fast as she could while I fired numbers and terms at her as fast as she could write. After four hours she was just about mental mush. By hour six, so was I - but could have kept going! You have much to look forward to in the coming months. :-) Myth #1 The Stained Drawers They are not in any way stained by blood. They are not even stained in the right place for it to be blood of natural causes. The photos that we are all used to have some kind of strange shadow artifact. We have mapped out the stains, however the stains are not *nearly* as dark as the photos suggest. My suspicion is, the inks used to trace out the embroidery pattern leeched into subsequent layers when the garment got wet while being folded. There is no evidence that suggests that someone tried to remove the stains which tells me they haven't been used since the stains occured. In fact, none of these garments look like they have been used, ever. This one garment though has taken a beating of some kind; it has substantial evidence of poor-quality repair work throught the seams and embroidery. The fabric shows no wear that says it was actually damaged through actual use, though. Myth #1A The Stained Drawers have a front and back V opening Not true. The back should have a seam in it; the seam has torn away down from the waist, but has done so cleanly enough that it appears to have a seam finish. The waistband is supposed to be a casing that a drawstring runs though. Myth #2 - The Gathered Drawers are crotchless Patently untrue. In fact they are gusseted, just as the other above is. It's just a really long opening. They are just like any other pair of knickers one might envision. I have to say though that the sewing on this garment is just... incredible. The seams are as sturdy and perfect as the day they were made. So much so I couldn't find the selvedge edge inside the seams. And the stitches are so perfectly repeated and tiny, it looks as if a machine had made them. Myth #2A - The Gathered Drawers are closed with a button Again, untrue. They have two small eyelets for a point tie to pass through. The pattern down the opening is goldwork, as is the rest of the embellishment which excited me to no end. Goldwork embroidery is my new obsession so I get to decorate to my heart's content. Given the nature of goldwork though, it's amazing that the embroidery is still in perfect condition at the opening. This point leads me to further believe this trousseau was never worn. Myth #3 - The Stockings were once sleeves I totally disagree with this supposition. They have piecing in them that are absolutely identical to one another which says to me that it was a part of the cutting design. They are also above the knee stockings so the photos simply have not given relevant context to their dimensions. I would hazard that the intended wearer was roughly my height (5'5); if I compare the overall length of the stocking to my own leg, it sits perfectly above my knee by about 2 inches. I have some numbers and formulae I can use to establish this for certain, I just have to crunch it and see what pops out. I want to roughly estimate the overall size of the intended wearer so I can better understand how the clothing sat on the body. Myth #4 - The Gathered Chemise is blackworked I'll leave embroidery technique out of this for a moment and say no, indeed it is not *black* work - it is mauve and plum. Yes, purple, to be general about it. And somewhat variegated at that. It was such an odd shade of purple that we couldn't find an accurate match to them in the swatch book. Basically, the colour codes we have are close in value, but one must sadden the tone considerably. Myth #5
RE: [h-cost] Underwear, Demystified
Having recently joined the group, Where can I see pics of this underwear? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Page Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 11:50 AM To: Historical Costume List Subject: [h-cost] Underwear, Demystified I'm back!!! And frivolously cross posting this all over the place;please pardon my excitement. : I have to say (yet again!), any photo I have *ever* seen will not do those garments justice! This was a most amazing experience. I have to thank Nikki a million times over for being a patient and humourous compass. I, being the directionally impaired, would not have made it *to* the Met, let alone around the island and then home! It was luck of the draw we got along so well, having only met once for about an hour the year previous. Thankyouthankyouthankyou!! Okay, the cool stuff everyone has been looking forward to: Underwear Mythbusting. I won't have complete data available right away, I still have to crunch it into a readable format, however I can happily say that even the museum staff were impressed with the level of detail I was painstakingly dragging the Most Patient Nikki through. She recorded as fast as she could while I fired numbers and terms at her as fast as she could write. After four hours she was just about mental mush. By hour six, so was I - but could have kept going! You have much to look forward to in the coming months. :-) Myth #1 The Stained Drawers They are not in any way stained by blood. They are not even stained in the right place for it to be blood of natural causes. The photos that we are all used to have some kind of strange shadow artifact. We have mapped out the stains, however the stains are not *nearly* as dark as the photos suggest. My suspicion is, the inks used to trace out the embroidery pattern leeched into subsequent layers when the garment got wet while being folded. There is no evidence that suggests that someone tried to remove the stains which tells me they haven't been used since the stains occured. In fact, none of these garments look like they have been used, ever. This one garment though has taken a beating of some kind; it has substantial evidence of poor-quality repair work throught the seams and embroidery. The fabric shows no wear that says it was actually damaged through actual use, though. Myth #1A The Stained Drawers have a front and back V opening Not true. The back should have a seam in it; the seam has torn away down from the waist, but has done so cleanly enough that it appears to have a seam finish. The waistband is supposed to be a casing that a drawstring runs though. Myth #2 - The Gathered Drawers are crotchless Patently untrue. In fact they are gusseted, just as the other above is. It's just a really long opening. They are just like any other pair of knickers one might envision. I have to say though that the sewing on this garment is just... incredible. The seams are as sturdy and perfect as the day they were made. So much so I couldn't find the selvedge edge inside the seams. And the stitches are so perfectly repeated and tiny, it looks as if a machine had made them. Myth #2A - The Gathered Drawers are closed with a button Again, untrue. They have two small eyelets for a point tie to pass through. The pattern down the opening is goldwork, as is the rest of the embellishment which excited me to no end. Goldwork embroidery is my new obsession so I get to decorate to my heart's content. Given the nature of goldwork though, it's amazing that the embroidery is still in perfect condition at the opening. This point leads me to further believe this trousseau was never worn. Myth #3 - The Stockings were once sleeves I totally disagree with this supposition. They have piecing in them that are absolutely identical to one another which says to me that it was a part of the cutting design. They are also above the knee stockings so the photos simply have not given relevant context to their dimensions. I would hazard that the intended wearer was roughly my height (5'5); if I compare the overall length of the stocking to my own leg, it sits perfectly above my knee by about 2 inches. I have some numbers and formulae I can use to establish this for certain, I just have to crunch it and see what pops out. I want to roughly estimate the overall size of the intended wearer so I can better understand how the clothing sat on the body. Myth #4 - The Gathered Chemise is blackworked I'll leave embroidery technique out of this for a moment and say no, indeed it is not *black* work - it is mauve and plum. Yes, purple, to be general about it. And somewhat variegated at that. It was such an odd shade of purple that we couldn't find an accurate match to them in the swatch book. Basically, the colour codes we have are close in value, but one must sadden the tone considerably. Myth #5 - The Ungathered Chemise has been tampered
[h-cost] Underwear Menses (was: medieval quote on underwear)
At 8:16 PM + 1/10/06, Caroline wrote: If you are pregnant or breastfeeding you are unlikely to have monthly cycles. Admitted women who are not sexually active won't be pregnant much but once you take nuns out of the equasion most women wouldn't need sanitary protection much during their life. But they'd still need it enough of their lives for it to be a consideration in their lives. (And even most married women were probably not producing a child every year, or even every two years, and so would have spent much of their mature lives menstruating every month -- and not all women got married, remained married constantly until menopause, were fertile, etc...) In any case, since this was raised in the context of discussing underwear, it is worth explicitly reminding ourselves that while currently in the US and similar cultures we often deal with menstruation by attaching something to underwear, this solution is in fact extremely modern. When I first started menstruating (circa 1980, give or take a couple years) many were still wearing special belts with dangly bits to which sanitary pads were attached (no underwear needed), and even as recently as the early 1990s when I was in hospital in the UK, the hospital issue pads assumed such a belt (which, naturally, I didn't have, not having used one since I was a young teenager -- nor were any of the British women I knew still using such things). And even though I have myself used such non-adhesive backing methods in the past, I still tend to forget that adhesive pads attached to underwear hasn't been around since time immemorial -- that is, until forcibly reminded by hospital time-warps or the like! So, even if it were true that historically women didn't need sanitary protection much during their life, that wouldn't explain lack of women wearing underwear as underwear is completely unnecessary for sanitary protection (even without tampons) and, further, modernly underwear only became part of the sanitary protection solution in very recent decades. That is, sanitary protection tells us nothing about underwear, and underwear tells us nothing about sanitary protection, except and unless there is specific evidence linking the two frequently unrelated variables in some specific context (such as, say, very late 20th, early 21st century US similar cultures). Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Underwear
Just a couple of bits. First, it's unlikely that any Herjofsnes garments were found with linen pads of any sort (linen has not survived in the conditions at Herjofsnes). What may be being remembered is the polar bear breeches from Angmagssalik (now called Tasiilaq), and may not be even Norse. It's also possible that they are thinking of whatever those seal skin things that I've heard Robin mention. Women and breeches. In a recent work by Margarette Nockert, the Skjoldehamn trousers were redated and also were described as a woman's garment. This doesn't really bother me since in one of the Sagas (sdon't ask me which right now) a woman was accused of wearing gusseted trousers, like a man's, which could be construed as meaning that women (in that time and place) might wear ungusseted trousers. And quite honestly, little ice age or not, I think that NOT wearing something under your skirts in a Scandinavian winter is unlikely. In Italy, things might be different. I have rants on the ubiquity of the little ice age as an an excuse for things, and the women were pregnant all the time myth, but I think they may be off topic for this list. Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
