Re: [Haifux] Re: SIL lectures
i guess the background for the SiL lectures was not discussed on the mailing list, so i'll just repeat here what was discussed during the W2L series in Taub 3. there appeared to be a demand for lectures which are beyond W2L, for people who have been at the W2L series, and want to continue, but are intimidated by the normal lectures (what if i don't know enough to understand what they talka bout?, i will fill silly to ask questions when everyone else seems to understand everything, etc.). there is a gap, which is too wide, between the level of W2L lectures and the level of regular club lectures. thus, we decided to make a short series to cover this gap - not beginner lectures, but not too advanced, either. something that will eventually allow people who've been at the W2L series, to join the regular club's meetings. it was agreed that in these lectures, we'll fix the problem with the W2L lecture - that of going too fast and not giving any real examples. this series seems to have taken its own life now. some lectures have too much material to fit into one meeting, so they are stretched over two meetings. some other materia, that popped up during those lectures, will require its own meeting (e.g. 'shell'). and since it looks like people are coming, we'll keep this going on, as long as there is demand, and as long as people want to give lectures. and since this series does not harm the regular club's meetings, i don't think there should be any objections to carrying on. i hope this makes matters clear. and remember. claims along the lines of people should learn on their own, we shouldn't help them will be ignored, since the 'we' do not include those who make these claims. -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: SIL lectures
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Orna Agmon wrote: Regarding all question about the Staying in Linux Lectures, aka SiL: Guy started the SiL with three incredibly useful topics: 1.Users, groups, persmissions. 2.Drivers, modules, kernel. 3.Multimedia. Then a forth was added: 4.Shell. The problem of W2L is that it takes place every week, and since most Haifux members do not come to W2L, and most of them learn nothing new in W2L, I call this time the W2L drought. Since the SiL lectures take place only every two weeks, this does not hurt the regular Haifux lectures, which are still given every two weeks. Usually, during a regular Haifux lecture, we go over the material rather quickly. For example, compare the lectures we had regarding python, lambda calculus, php, to your first programming language course, if you had any: we cover the material fast, not aiming to teach everything, but to have an intro, to get the concept, and go back to the manual if needed. To get exposed to new subjects. In short, we assume a rather high common denominator of knowledge, in order to make those regular Haifux lectures interesting. Even in the W2L lectures we go fast over the material, for another reason: we want to squeeze 6-8 lectures in the time between the beginning of the semester and the mid-term exams. Again: we run fast over the material. In the SiL lectures, following the great example Guy gave at the lectures he has so far given, we go slow. We give examples. we make it possible to learn frontally. In short, instead of going over the material, we teach. Also, we go in the beginning over material that is basic Linux, but for lack of time does not get into the W2L. We assume no prior knowledge. Hence, it makes it possible for people who only heard the W2L, to join Haifux at an easy rate. If you do not like the SiL, you can just ignore it: regular (advanced) Haifux lectures are still given at a two-weeks interval. If you like a SiL topic, you can simply come - everyone is invited. As guy's drivers lecture showed, many regular Haifux members (veterans) came to hear it. On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote: That put aside, I don't think I understand the division between the SiL lectures and the regular lectures: Up to shell everything is fine. Then CVS, why does it has to be in SiL? Then Trust and Open Source - again, why in SiL? because it requires no prior knowledge. I don't think that lectures that do not require any prior knowledge must automagically be placed in SiL. Lectures that are of interest to the club's at large should be proper lectures regardless of the knowledge they require. Otherwise, the newcomers will be confused and will think they need to attend these lectures. I don't think we should teach newcomers about CVS, so there's no reason to put it there. Likewise, Trust and Open Source is of interest to the club at large so it should be on the proper lectures. You're overduing it with the SiL series. Afterwards Adir has two Firweall with IP-Tables lectures - one of them SiL and the others not. The first is intro - no prior knowledge. The next one requires prior knowledge or hearing the first one. people with less background can listen to both of them, while people with more background may skip the first one. Then please designate them as part I, and part II. I personally think that we can simply assume that some proper Haifux lectures will require little or no prior knowledge, so we don't need to stretch the SiL series beyond the Shell lecture. Instead, we can have more lectures on our queue. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: SIL lectures
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Orna Agmon wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote: I don't think that lectures that do not require any prior knowledge must automagically be placed in SiL. Lectures that are of interest to the club's at large should be proper lectures regardless of the knowledge they require. Otherwise, the newcomers will be confused and will think they need to attend these lectures. As you may have noticed, the SiL lectures, which were numbered as SiL-1, SiL-2 etc. before, are now numbered as club lectures. The SiL indication next to the number simply says that people who took the W2L will not feel akward in them, and that they are of a slower rate. Then you might as well label or comment them as beginner-friendly, or whatever. There's no reason to call them by the illegible SiL next to them, especially that Staying in Linux was meant to be an ad-hoc series to complement W2L. I don't think we should teach newcomers about CVS, so there's no reason to put it there. Likewise, Trust and Open Source is of interest to the club at large so it should be on the proper lectures. As I said, the SiL lectures are available to everybody. Regarding CVS, I think everybody who does not have a good version control tool, should have one, no matter their experiance. CVS _is not_ a good version control tool. ;-) It is not a question of need to know, this is not the intelligence force. It is a question of has the proper background to follow the lecture. OK. You're overduing it with the SiL series. Afterwards Adir has two Firweall with IP-Tables lectures - one of them SiL and the others not. The first is intro - no prior knowledge. The next one requires prior knowledge or hearing the first one. people with less background can listen to both of them, while people with more background may skip the first one. Then please designate them as part I, and part II. I personally think that we can simply assume that some proper Haifux lectures will require little or no prior knowledge, so we don't need to stretch the SiL series beyond the Shell lecture. Instead, we can have more lectures on our queue. Have you checked the queue lately? We are almost full till the next W2L. Doesn't the next W2L start at October or November. We only have a queue until June. But never mind. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! And please have a proper signature at last. Every time I answer you (this is the fifth today, I think) I have to trim your signature. I did not do it this time to show you how it looks, in case you have not noticed. I don't mind people quoting the signature. (I do many time). And I dislike dash-dash-space signatures for these reasons: 1. You cannot quote them in many mailers. 2. If you forward a mail with the signature at the beginning and forget to remove the signature, then the answerer cannot quote the forwarded message. (which is highly annoying) If it bothers you so much, you can have a procmail rule to remove it manually. Shouldn't be too hard to write using sed or whatever. You know the standard:dash dash space and then no more than four lines. Then the mail qlient trims it itself. See also (In your favorate CatB site): http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/M/McQuary-limit.html It reads: Accordingly, the McQuary limit should be considered a rule of thumb rather than a hard limit; Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
