Re: [Haifux] What encoding ?

2005-06-08 Thread Ron Artstein

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

What mail client do you use? Is it pine 4.44 on Aix 4? Any more 
up-to-date mail client availble? (e.g: pine 4.5x, mutt 1.4/1.5)


ISO-8859-8-i has the sam characters as ISO-8859-8, but implies 
logical ordering of characters. ISO-8859-8 in mail-web implies 
visual ordering, which is generally a bad idea.


My experience is that bidi-aware mail clients treat iso-8859-8
and iso-8859-8-i as equivalent and display both using logical 
order. This is unlike the behavior of web browsers and might go

against the standards, but is probably sensible given that most
of the mail out there which identifies itself as iso-8859-8 is
in fact in logical order.

Of course this is irrelevant to pine, which not only is not 
bidi-aware but not even charset-aware: as far as I understand,

the only thing pine does with the charset header on an incoming
message is compare it to its own definition, and issue a warning
if they're different. Otherwise character handling is left to
the terminal.

On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 12:53:50PM +0300, Nir Abulaffio wrote:


Shalom,
What encoding do these email use ? I had a hard time seeing anything,
much harder than usual.
I can usually see ISO-8859-8. is this the same as ISO-8859-8-I
Here is whst I got.
1. [Message: Re: =?ISO-8859-8-I?Q?=F8=F9=E9=EE=FA_=FA=F4=E5=F6=E4_=F2
=E1=E5=F8_=F4?==?ISO-8859-8-I?Q?=F8=E5=E9=F7=E8_=E7=F6=E5=F8?=] (3.6K


Does the problem appear also with the body of the text, or only
in the subject? Perhaps in particular screens? I seem to recall 
problems with character translation in subject headers with some 
older versions of pine, but I no longer have access to these 
versions so I can't tell under what conditions this happens.


-Ron.


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Re: [Haifux] What encoding ?

2005-06-08 Thread Tzafrir Cohen
On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 07:52:12PM +0300, Ron Artstein wrote:
 On Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
 
 What mail client do you use? Is it pine 4.44 on Aix 4? Any more 
 up-to-date mail client availble? (e.g: pine 4.5x, mutt 1.4/1.5)
 
 ISO-8859-8-i has the sam characters as ISO-8859-8, but implies 
 logical ordering of characters. ISO-8859-8 in mail-web implies 
 visual ordering, which is generally a bad idea.
 
 My experience is that bidi-aware mail clients treat iso-8859-8
 and iso-8859-8-i as equivalent and display both using logical 
 order. This is unlike the behavior of web browsers and might go
 against the standards, but is probably sensible given that most
 of the mail out there which identifies itself as iso-8859-8 is
 in fact in logical order.
 
 Of course this is irrelevant to pine, which not only is not 
 bidi-aware but not even charset-aware: as far as I understand,
 the only thing pine does with the charset header on an incoming
 message is compare it to its own definition, and issue a warning
 if they're different. Otherwise character handling is left to
 the terminal.

Pine has some charset-awareness. E.g: you can set some charset-dependent
filters and settings. This should have be improved in pine 4.5x . Pine
4.4x was still very problematic with regards to multi-byte (e.g: UTF-8)
support, though.

It's been long since I've used pine, though.

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