Thomas M. DuBuisson wrote:
The solution I would want looks like this:
class NetworkAddress a where
addressByteSize :: a - Int
instance (NetworkAddress a) = Binary (AddressBlock a) where
get = do
lenH - get
h- replicateM get
Simon Marlow wrote:
Ultimately when things settle down
it might make sense to do this kind of thing, but right now I think an
easier approach is to just fix packages when dependencies change, and to
identify sets of mutually-compatible packages (we've talked about doing
this on Hackage
Don Stewart wrote:
stefanor:
On Mon, Oct 15, 2007 at 10:57:48PM +0100, Claus Reinke wrote:
so i wonder why everyone else claims to be happy with the status quo?
We aren't happy with the status quo. Rather, we know that no matter how
much we do, the situation will never improve, so most of us
Daniel McAllansmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think what you're asking for is more than that: you want us to provide
base-1.0, base-2.0 and base-3.0 at the same time, so that old packages
continue to work without needing to be updated.
Yes.
That is possible, but much more work for the
Udo Stenzel wrote:
Simon Marlow wrote:
So a package that depends on 'base' (with no upper version bound) *might*
be broken in GHC 6.8.1, depending on which modules from base it actually
uses. Let's look at the other options:
- if we rename base, the package will *definitely* be broken
Claus Reinke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You need a way to specify foo 1.2 foo 2, which is a
suggestion that was tossed around here recently.
but what does such a version range say? that i haven't tested any
versions outside the range (because they didn't exist when i wrote
my package)?
On Oct 16, 2007, at 3:25 , Galchin Vasili wrote:
Hello,
In a Hugs environment, I am able to import System.Directory but
not to import System.Posix. Here is my environment ... .;{Hugs}
\packages\*;C:\ftp\CatTheory\Haskell\SOE\graphics\lib\win32\*. I
really want to use the Posix module.
We'd be delighted if someone offered a more performant library to put into
future GHC releases.
Simon
| -Original Message-
| From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don
| Stewart
| Sent: 13 October 2007 22:38
| To: Isaac Dupree
| Cc: haskell-cafe@haskell.org
|
Be happy: we're about 15 years ahead of the lisp guys. 'cabal install
xmonad' works, for example.
- not on windows (and since it is popular, it will seduce more
good haskellers not to bother with windows compatibility.. :-(
- from xmonad.cabal (version 0.3, from hackage):
build-depends:
I was looking around for a haskell solution for distributing a
computation across multiple machines and couldn't find anything that
looked current and alive. I found out that the Hadoop project (java
based) can interact with binary executables via stdin and stdout. So I
have set up a Hadoop
- if you provide a 'base' configuration that pulls in the stuff that
used to be in base, the package will work
I don't know of a way to do that. The name of the package is baked into
the object files at compile time, so you can't use the same compiled module
in more than one package.
Hello,
There is one limitation to this, however. compileCall expects to compile a
dynamic via GHC.dynCompileExpr;
what this means is your resource must be monomorphic (for Typeable to
work.) As of right now, the easiest
way I can see to get around this is to simply define a datatype like
Several good points have been raised in this thread, and while I might not
agree with everything, I think we can all agree on the goal: things
shouldn't break so often.
So rather than keep replying to individual points, I'd like to make some
concrete proposals so we can make progress.
1.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Marlow
x changes == API changed
x constant but y changes == API extended only
x and y constant == API is identical
Ordering on versions is lexicographic, given multiple
versions that satisfy a dependency
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007, Don Stewart wrote:
http://alberrto.googlepages.com/easyvision
An experimental Haskell system for fast prototyping of computer vision
and image processing applications.
Looks ridiculously cool.
Image processing with Haskell - really interesting.
I know of
Claus Reinke wrote:
- if you provide a 'base' configuration that pulls in the stuff that
used to be in base, the package will work
I don't know of a way to do that. The name of the package is baked
into the object files at compile time, so you can't use the same
compiled module in more
Simon Marlow wrote:
Several good points have been raised in this thread, and while I might
not agree with everything, I think we can all agree on the goal: things
shouldn't break so often.
I have another concrete proposal to avoid things breaking so often. Let us
steal from something that
On 10/16/07, Bayley, Alistair [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just a minor point, but would mind explaining exactly what lexicographic
ordering implies? It appears to me that e.g. version 9.3 of a package
would be preferred over version 10.0. That strikes me as
counter-intuitive.
I believe the
* Simon Marlow wrote:
further sub-versions may be added after the x.y, their meaning is
package-defined. Ordering on versions is lexicographic, given multiple
versions that satisfy a dependency Cabal will pick the latest.
x.y.z should be ordered numerically, if possible.
As suggested by
Simon Marlow wrote:
Claus Reinke wrote:
- if you provide a 'base' configuration that pulls in the stuff that
used to be in base, the package will work
I don't know of a way to do that. The name of the package is baked
into the object files at compile time, so you can't use the same
Bayley, Alistair wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Marlow
x changes == API changed
x constant but y changes == API extended only
x and y constant == API is identical
Ordering on versions is lexicographic, given multiple
versions that satisfy
ChrisK wrote:
Simon Marlow wrote:
Several good points have been raised in this thread, and while I might
not agree with everything, I think we can all agree on the goal: things
shouldn't break so often.
I have another concrete proposal to avoid things breaking so often. Let us
steal from
From: Simon Marlow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The lexicographical ordering would make 10.0 9.3. In
general, A.B C.D
iff A C or A == C B D. When we say the latest
version we mean
greatest, implying that version numbers increase with time.
Does that help?
Sort of. It's what
Bayley, Alistair wrote:
From: Simon Marlow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The lexicographical ordering would make 10.0 9.3. In
general, A.B C.D
iff A C or A == C B D. When we say the latest
version we mean
greatest, implying that version numbers increase with time.
Does that help?
dons's blog entry on parsing dates might point somewhere useful
http://cgi.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/blog/2006/11/12#rpn-reloaded
t.
Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10/15/2007 08:25 PM
To
Justin Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc
Haskell-Cafe haskell-cafe@haskell.org
Subject
not quite the same issue, but you might be interested by
http://people.cs.uu.nl/stefan/blog/00012.html which notes:
Prelude let apply = \f x - f x
Prelude let apply' = \f - f
Prelude apply undefined `seq` ()
()
Prelude apply' undefined `seq` ()
*** Exception: Prelude.undefined
mulling
a good sanity check for saneness of two fxs is to quickcheck them, as I
believe I provided an example to for a previous question of yours.
Though I think in this case that's impossible because, as someone else
pointed out, not even the function tyes agree.
t.
PR Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:21 , Ketil Malde wrote:
The major/minor scheme has worked nicely for .so for ages.
i'm not so sure about that. it may be better than alternatives,
but [..]
Also, it sees a lot of testing, at least in current Linux
distributions. The point is that the end-user
On Oct 16, 2007, at 9:01 , Bayley, Alistair wrote:
From: Simon Marlow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The lexicographical ordering would make 10.0 9.3. In
general, A.B C.D
iff A C or A == C B D. When we say the latest
version we mean
greatest, implying that version numbers increase with
Indeed, I don't want to waste time but have no choice (rpm needs root),
not sure if this'll help (never tried it myself) but this claims there's a
non-root way to use rpm
http://www.techonthenet.com/linux/build_rpm.php
cheers, t.
---
This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged
On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 01:57:01PM +0100, Simon Marlow wrote:
Certainly, this is something we want to support. However, there's an
important difference between shared-library linking and Haskell: in
Haskell, a superset of an API is not backwards-compatible, because it has
the potential to
Henning Thielemann wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007, Don Stewart wrote:
http://alberrto.googlepages.com/easyvision
An experimental Haskell system for fast prototyping of computer vision
and image processing applications.
Looks ridiculously cool.
Image processing with Haskell -
On Oct 16, 2007, at 2:25 , Don Stewart wrote:
jgbailey:
I am trying to parse various date and time formats using the
parseTime
function found in (GHC 6.6.1) Data.Time.Format. The one that is
giving me
trouble looks like this:
2008-06-26T11:00:00.000-07:00
Specifically,
ChrisK [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Once it is possible to have cabal register the hsFoo-3.0.0 also as hsFoo-2 it
will be easy to upgrade to hsFoo. No old programs will fail to compile.
Who here knows enough about the ghc-pkg database to say how easy or hard this
would be?
Ignoring disk
1. Document the version numbering policy.
agreed. just making everybody's interpretation explicit has
already exposed subtle differences, so documenting common
ground will help.
We should have done this earlier, but we didn't. The proposed policy, for
the sake of completeness is: x.y where:
If the convention for modifying package versions of form x.y.z is:
- increment z for bugfixes/changes that don't alter the interface
- increment y for changes that consist solely of additions to the interface,
parts of the interface may be marked as deprecated
- increment x for changes that
I have another concrete proposal to avoid things breaking so often. Let us
steal from something that works: shared library versioning on unixy systems.
indeed!-) there are established workarounds that are needed to
make that system work as it does, so it is a good idea to check
whether cabal
Claus Reinke wrote:
It could be done using the tricks that Claus just posted and I
followed up on. You'd need a separate package for hsFoo-2 that
specifies exactly which bits of hsFoo-3 are re-exported. Given some
Cabal support and a little extension in GHC, this could be made
relatively
On 10/16/07, Bjorn Bringert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hmm, perhaps I should clarify this: parsedate and time-1.1.1 (which
comes with GHC 6.6.1) have different APIs. parsedate produces
CalendarTimes, and the code in time-1.1.1 produces the new time and
date data types. So I guess parsedate
Hi
(/ 10) means the function that divides its argument by 10
(- 10) however is just the number -10, even if I put a space between the -
and 10.
How can I create a function that subtracts 10 from its argument in a clean
way then?
subtract is the way to go. (`subtract` 10)
I think you
Does the GHC code generator makes use of SIMD instructions? Maybe via
the C compiler?
Cheers,
Peter
Simon Peyton-Jones wrote:
We'd be delighted if someone offered a more performant library to put into
future GHC releases.
| I've seen similar results switching to the SIMD mersenne twister C
On Oct 16, 2007, at 17:54 , Justin Bailey wrote:
On 10/16/07, Bjorn Bringert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hmm, perhaps I should clarify this: parsedate and time-1.1.1 (which
comes with GHC 6.6.1) have different APIs. parsedate produces
CalendarTimes, and the code in time-1.1.1 produces the new
At Brooklyn College we have been running distributed Haskell (release 5,
though) under Linux/Mosic for several years. There are some problems, but
we think they are well under control.
Murray Gross
Brooklyn College,
City University of New York
On Tue, 16 Oct 2007, Brad Clow wrote:
I
On 10/16/07, Bjorn Bringert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Should we just add XX:XX as an alternative time zone offset format
accepted by %z and %Z? Is this a standard format?
I'm not sure, but I am getting this date from Google in their XML feeds
representing calendar data. The specific element
are those tricks necessary in this specific case? couldn't we
have a list/range of versions in the version: field, and let cabal
handle the details?
I don't understand what you're proposing here. Surely just writing
version: 1.0, 2.0
isn't enough - you need to say what the 1.0 and 2.0 APIs
On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 17:02 +0100, Neil Mitchell wrote:
Hi
(/ 10) means the function that divides its argument by 10
(- 10) however is just the number -10, even if I put a space between the -
and 10.
How can I create a function that subtracts 10 from its argument in a clean
way
On 10/16/07, Brad Clow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would prefer a more Haskell orientated solution and welcome any
suggestions. If not maybe this will be of use to others.
Well, Hadoop is aiming towards a Google style of cluster processing
and the path towards that is pretty clear:
1) An XDR
Hi
I think you should have to write negative numbers using the syntax
0-10, since currently having one single unary operator is ugly.
I think writing 0-10 is ugly.
Ugly - yes. But very clear as to its meaning. How often do people
actually write negative numeric literals? My guess is that
On 10/16/07, Neil Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ugly - yes. But very clear as to its meaning. How often do people
actually write negative numeric literals?
Any time I need one. And I can guarantee I don't make the compiler
perform an arithmetic computation to get one, either.
--
Wise
Hi Bjorn (and everybody),
What would it entail to get System.Posix working on Windows? Would a
mininum requirement e.g. be teh installation of http://www.cygwin.com? Or
write a POSIX API to Win32 API binding? If I understand the problem, I
wouldn't mind giving a run at it!
Regards, Bill
On
I think you should have to write negative numbers using the syntax
0-10, since currently having one single unary operator is ugly.
I think writing 0-10 is ugly.
Ugly - yes. But very clear as to its meaning. How often do people
actually write negative numeric literals? My guess is that -1 is
On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 01:08:49PM +0100, Simon Marlow wrote:
So rather than keep replying to individual points, I'd like to make some
concrete proposals so we can make progress.
1. Document the version numbering policy.
We should have done this earlier, but we didn't. The proposed policy,
If you want to try and implement some of the System.Posix API using
the win32 API, a good place to put that would be in the unix-compat
package.
Darcs repo: http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~bringert/darcs/unix-compat/
Hackage page: http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/
Ross Paterson wrote:
I would make API extended only a bit more precise: any module that uses
explicit import lists will not be affected by the changes. So one can
add classes, types and functions, but not instances (except where either
the class or the type is new).
okay
You probably can't
Your intuition that id is related to const is a good one, since id can
be defined in terms of const. Here is one of many:
id' = flip const const
[This is also called a CKK combinator. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_combinator#Combinatory_calculi for more
examples, such as SKK, SKS, and
On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 09:25 -0700, Justin Bailey wrote:
On 10/16/07, Bjorn Bringert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Should we just add XX:XX as an alternative time zone offset
format
accepted by %z and %Z? Is this a standard format?
Yes, this is standard; see below.
simonmarhaskell:
Several good points have been raised in this thread, and while I might not
agree with everything, I think we can all agree on the goal: things
shouldn't break so often.
So rather than keep replying to individual points, I'd like to make some
concrete proposals so we can
Hi
I agree. = 1.0 isn't viable in the long term. Rather, a specific list,
or bounded range of tested versions seems likely to be more robust.
In general, if it compiles and type checks, it will work. It is rare
that an interface stays sufficiently similar that the thing compiles,
but then
Neil Mitchell wrote:
Hi
I agree. = 1.0 isn't viable in the long term. Rather, a specific list,
or bounded range of tested versions seems likely to be more robust.
In general, if it compiles and type checks, it will work. It is rare
that an interface stays sufficiently similar that the thing
On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 06:07:39PM +0200, Peter Verswyvelen wrote:
Does the GHC code generator makes use of SIMD instructions? Maybe via the C
compiler?
No.
GHC uses GCC extensions, and GCC doesn't support automatic SIMD use.
(You could use -unreg and an advanced compiler. Good luck finding
On Oct 16, 2007, at 21:39 , Carl Witty wrote:
On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 09:25 -0700, Justin Bailey wrote:
On 10/16/07, Bjorn Bringert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Should we just add XX:XX as an alternative time zone offset
format
accepted by %z and %Z? Is this a standard
Hi everyone,
I have been trying to implement a Haskell-like version of shell
pipelines using runInteractiveProcess. I am essentially using
hGetContents to grab the output from one command, and passing that to
(forkIO $ hPutStr) to write to the next. Slow, but this is just an
experiment. This
I was just putting together my Amazon wish list and was wondering if
there are any great books on Haskell and/or functional programming
that people think are must-reads. Okasaki's Purely Functional
Programming, Pierce's Types and Programming Languages are frequent
recommendations. Smullyan's To
Concurrent Clean uses the ~ symbol for unary negation. That's also a way
of fixing it.
Personally I could also live with allowing no space between the minus
sign and the number... If you leave a space, - becomes the subtract
operator.
Coming from C++ I always make the mistake to forget
dpiponi:
I was just putting together my Amazon wish list and was wondering if
there are any great books on Haskell and/or functional programming
that people think are must-reads. Okasaki's Purely Functional
Programming, Pierce's Types and Programming Languages are frequent
recommendations.
Peter Verswyvelen wrote:
Personally I could also live with allowing no space between the minus
sign and the number... If you leave a space, - becomes the subtract
operator.
I once thought that... there was the opposition that (x-1) subtraction
of a constant appears too often. And I found
John Goerzen wrote:
Many systems will just try to close *all* FDs except the ones they need
after a fork(). Another approach would be to maintain a global list of
FDs that the Haskell thread is using, and close all of them except the
pipe ends in the child.
Does this make sense to everyone?
On 2007-10-16, Jules Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
John Goerzen wrote:
Many systems will just try to close *all* FDs except the ones they need
after a fork(). Another approach would be to maintain a global list of
FDs that the Haskell thread is using, and close all of them except the
pipe
Following is a summary of my thoughts on the matter, in large part so I can
figure out what I'm thinking... apologies if it's a bit of a ramble. All
comments welcome.
Basically
- version numbering which differs from Simon's proposal
- precise dependencies, I think the same as Simon is
On Wednesday 17 October 2007 01:32, ChrisK wrote:
Simon Marlow wrote:
Several good points have been raised in this thread, and while I might
not agree with everything, I think we can all agree on the goal: things
shouldn't break so often.
I have another concrete proposal to avoid things
[would it be possible to pick a single list to discuss this on please,
so there is no danger of some people missing some subthreads if they
aren't on all the lists, or getting messages 3 times if they are?]
On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 01:08:49PM +0100, Simon Marlow wrote:
2. Precise dependencies.
I wanted to generate some random table data, and decided to use quickcheck
to do this. I didn't want to be checking properties, I actually wanted to
output the examples that quickcheck came up with using arbitrary. In this
case, I wanted to generate lists of lists of strings.
In case this is
[Moved to haskell-cafe]
G'day all.
Quoting Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
You can't pattern match 'a' and 'a' like that -- there's no implicit
unification.
Since we're being nostalgic in other threads, this is #1 on my list of
things I miss from Miranda.
It's also high on my things that
I wrote a while ago,
There is AngloHaskell and now AmeroHaskell. Doesn't that call for
OzHaskell?
http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/OzHaskell
In the meantime a number of interested people put their name down on
the wiki page. So, let's talk more concretely about a first
meeting. I have
On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 06:27:19PM -0300, Isaac Dupree wrote:
Peter Verswyvelen wrote:
Personally I could also live with allowing no space between the minus
sign and the number... If you leave a space, - becomes the subtract
operator.
I once thought that... there was the opposition that
On 17 Oct 2007, at 10:58 am, John Goerzen wrote:
Do you mean FD_CLOEXEC, which can be set with fcntl()? If so, it's
not
defined in POSIX according to the Linux manpage. I couldn't find
CLOSE_ON_EXEC in either open(2) or fcntl(2).
F_GETFD and F_SETFD are the things to look for; FD_CLOEXEC
If naturals have a perfectly reasonable subtraction then they also have a
perfectly reasonable negate; the default is 0-x.
(Oh, subtraction wasn't THAT reasonable, you say. :) )
-- Lennart
On 10/17/07, John Meacham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 06:27:19PM -0300, Isaac
On Oct 16, 2007, at 21:40 , Richard A. O'Keefe wrote:
F_GETFD and F_SETFD are the things to look for; FD_CLOEXEC is a fancy
way of saying 1 in historic UNIXes. The OSF/1 /usr/include/sys/
fcntl.h says that FD_CLOEXEC is POSIX REQUIRED. This facility is
most certainly part of the Single Unix
On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 03:13:23AM +0100, Lennart Augustsson wrote:
If naturals have a perfectly reasonable subtraction then they also have a
perfectly reasonable negate; the default is 0-x.
(Oh, subtraction wasn't THAT reasonable, you say. :) )
I suppose I was overextending the use of
Hello,
Here are the essential details...
Location: NYC
Industry: finance
Salary: enough to live comfortably in Manhattan
Hard Requirements:
Must be able to work in the USA (we can't get you a worker's visa).
Must be an expert level Haskell user; must be comfortable with
monads,
chak:
I wrote a while ago,
There is AngloHaskell and now AmeroHaskell. Doesn't that call for
OzHaskell?
http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/OzHaskell
In the meantime a number of interested people put their name down on
the wiki page. So, let's talk more concretely about a first
Richard Bird's Introduction to Functional Programming using Haskell,
second edition exceeds other introductory books by introducing laws
(e.g., fold laws, fusion laws), efficiency issues (including the stack
overflow question, deforestation), and monad transformers.
IMO these are
On Oct 16, 2007, at 7:31 PM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
I could dig for official confirmation, but this is my understanding
of both POSIX and SUS, and portable C programs generally #define
FD_CLOEXEC to 1 if it doesn't already exist, since the value *is*
standard even though the name
On Oct 17, 2007, at 0:39 , Donn Cave wrote:
On Oct 16, 2007, at 7:31 PM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
I could dig for official confirmation, but this is my
understanding of both POSIX and SUS, and portable C programs
generally #define FD_CLOEXEC to 1 if it doesn't already exist,
On Oct 16, 2007, at 1:48 PM, John Goerzen wrote:
I have been trying to implement a Haskell-like version of shell
pipelines using runInteractiveProcess. I am essentially using
hGetContents to grab the output from one command, and passing that to
(forkIO $ hPutStr) to write to the next. Slow,
On 10/16/07, Dan Piponi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was just putting together my Amazon wish list and was wondering if
there are any great books on Haskell and/or functional programming
that people think are must-reads. Okasaki's Purely Functional
Hudak's The Haskell School of Expression is
On Oct 16, 2007, at 9:52 PM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
On Oct 17, 2007, at 0:39 , Donn Cave wrote:
...
As for closing file descriptors explicitly - if I remember right
what I've seen
in the NetBSD source, the UNIX popen() implementation may years ago
have closed all file descriptors,
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