[Haskell-cafe] Testing non-exported functions using ghci
Hello,I have modules that don't export some functions. Is there a way I can access them from ghci without exporting them?Thanks-John ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Great language shootout: reloaded
Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: [...] While we're here we should fix: chameneos And anything else you want to take a look at. A community page has been set up to which you can submit improved entries: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Great_language_shootout [...] Well, then! I've put a new chameneos solution up on the wiki, and will wait the recommended couple of days for Community Feedback. - Tom ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Great language shootout: reloaded
tpledger: Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: [...] While we're here we should fix: chameneos And anything else you want to take a look at. A community page has been set up to which you can submit improved entries: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Great_language_shootout [...] Well, then! I've put a new chameneos solution up on the wiki, and will wait the recommended couple of days for Community Feedback. Great! One issue is that the pragma is unnecessary (all the good flags are set in the Makefile, so that saves a few gzipped bytes ;) -- Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
Hello Duncan, Monday, November 13, 2006, 3:36:32 AM, you wrote: afaik, there are just two good enough libs - wxHaskell and GtkHs. can in brief, i see the following main differences: - wxHaskell is easier to understand and to use, Ght2Hs allows to use Glade to develop lookfeel - Gtk2Hs had better support, but now wxHaskell has more maintainers and situation may change to opposite in a next few months - wxHaskell provides more native lookfeel, while Gtk2Hs simplifies porting of GUI application from Windows to Linux. Also Gtk2Hs needs Gtk DLL to be installed, but this can be made a part of application installation procedure, afaik? - Gtk2Hs has better memory management - differences between Gtk and wxWidgets that i will go to study i also have more questions: first, how about tabbed pages control? such controls are widely used to represent plenty of information in limited screen space second: ability and easiness to develop my own controls, and to combine several customized controls together to make one supercontrol (although i guess that last feature is important only for RAD environments) third: are there any appetizers demonstrating features of each library and with source code available for studying? except for memory.pdf which don't mention where full source can be downloaded it will be interesting to see sources of more business-like applications developed with both libs. if there are no ones, may be i will develop basic file manager utility as such appetizer -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Testing non-exported functions using ghci
Hi, Am Montag, den 13.11.2006, 21:24 +1100 schrieb John Ky: I have modules that don't export some functions. Is there a way I can access them from ghci without exporting them? It seems that if there are .hi files around, ghci can’t reach the non-exported functions, but if you delete this file, it works. Greetings, Joachim -- Joachim Breitner e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.joachim-breitner.de ICQ#: 74513189 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 15:41 +0300, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Duncan, Monday, November 13, 2006, 3:36:32 AM, you wrote: afaik, there are just two good enough libs - wxHaskell and GtkHs. can in brief, i see the following main differences: - wxHaskell is easier to understand and to use, Ght2Hs allows to use Glade to develop lookfeel Easier to understand is rather a matter of personal taste. Certainly Gtk is a big library, providing lots of features. I should also note that one of the main improvements in the upcoming Gtk2Hs release will be to try to simplify the api and improve the reference documentation by making greater use of atribute and signal abstractions rather than lots of getter/setter functions. - Gtk2Hs had better support, but now wxHaskell has more maintainers and situation may change to opposite in a next few months It'll be good to have more competition :-) hopefully both systems will improve more rapidly. - wxHaskell provides more native lookfeel, while Gtk2Hs simplifies porting of GUI application from Windows to Linux. Also Gtk2Hs needs Gtk DLL to be installed, but this can be made a part of application installation procedure, afaik? Both Gtk2Hs and wxHaskell need DLLs to be installed and in both cases it can be made part of the install procedure. You just need to bung the right set of dlls in the same directory as the .exe that you distribute. It's exactly the same as with any other windows app that needs extra dlls. - Gtk2Hs has better memory management - differences between Gtk and wxWidgets that i will go to study i also have more questions: first, how about tabbed pages control? such controls are widely used to represent plenty of information in limited screen space Both have tab controls. second: ability and easiness to develop my own controls, and to combine several customized controls together to make one supercontrol (although i guess that last feature is important only for RAD environments) third: are there any appetizers demonstrating features of each library and with source code available for studying? except for memory.pdf which don't mention where full source can be downloaded There are a bunch of demos included in the Gtk2Hs sources and there are various apps written by other people available on the web. For example: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/projects/pivotal/downloads.html http://haskell.galois.com/~paolo/nymphaea/ Apart from the memory pdf intro there a general intro presentation and a glade tutorial: http://haskell.org/gtk2hs/archives/2006/03/06/introductory-presentation/ http://eddy.writelinux.com/gtk2hs/GladeGtk2Hs.html it will be interesting to see sources of more business-like applications developed with both libs. if there are no ones, may be i will develop basic file manager utility as such appetizer That would be great. Duncan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
Hi - Gtk2Hs had better support, but now wxHaskell has more maintainers and situation may change to opposite in a next few months As long as Duncan is around, there will always be enough Gtk2Hs support! Currently Gtk2Hs _has_ better support, the situation may change or may not. Remember that Duncan is not the only Gtk2Hs person, merely the most active :) - wxHaskell provides more native lookfeel Definately true. For GuiHaskell (http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~ndm/projects/guihaskell.php) I was able to get it quite Windows looking with a bit of help from Duncan. As a result of the attempt to make it more Windows like a few Gtk bugs were filed, and it does appear that better Windows GUI styles are something that is already in a Gtk release. third: are there any appetizers demonstrating features of each library and with source code available for studying? except for memory.pdf which don't mention where full source can be downloaded The full source code of GuiHaskell is available. The one thing you should be aware of is that Windows + Threading + Gtk2Hs + Gtk + GHC = Pain. I suspect the same equation holds for wxHaskell as well. Ask Duncan for more information if this looks like being a problem. Thanks Neil ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] deepSeq vs rnf
Cale Gibbard wrote: On 22/10/06, Chad Scherrer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I had posted this question a while back, but I think it was in the middle of another discussion, and I never did get a reply. Do we really need both Control.Parallel.Strategies.rnf and deepSeq? Should we not always have x `deepSeq` y == rnf x `seq` y ? Maybe there's a distinction I'm missing, but it seems to me they're basically the same. I agree, they are the same. The Strategies library also gives much more general operations for working with strictness and parallelisation. That library seems to need more love, I think it's a great idea, but it doesn't really get noticed all that much. The Hierarchical libraries documentation for it is a little lacking -- it doesn't even provide a reference or link to the paper, and many of the combinators, as well as the general idea of how to use it are undocumented from there. It also spuriously contains an Assoc datatype, which if I recall correctly, was an example from the paper, but doesn't really belong in the library as far as I can tell. It would also be really nice to see the list of instances for the NFData class expanded to include other datatypes in the libraries, possibly also with compiler support for deriving, since it's mostly boilerplate. I wanted to use the Strategies library and didn't understand much of it, so I sat down and documented it. The darcs version, http://darcs.haskell.org/packages/base/Control/Parallel/Strategies.hs has my changes. If noone objects, I could do some more clean-up, including: - Add NFData instances for common data types, such as - Maybe - Either - Data.Map.Map - Data.Set.Set - Data.Tree.Tree - All Data.Int and Data.Word types - Deprecate sSeq and sPar, as the code comments say that you should use demanding and sparking instead. - Deprecate these defintions, which seem to be examples or Lolita-specific: - Assoc - fstPairFstList - force - sforce If anyone has objections or further suggestions, let me know. /Björn ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[4]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
Hello Duncan, Monday, November 13, 2006, 4:10:03 PM, you wrote: on the download page only GHC 6.4.1 support mentioned. is 6.4.2 and 6.6 supported on windows? on linux? where i can read about forthcoming gtk2hs version and when it will be released? -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[4]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
Hello Neil, Monday, November 13, 2006, 4:43:59 PM, you wrote: The full source code of GuiHaskell is available. i will at it too The one thing you should be aware of is that Windows + Threading + Gtk2Hs + Gtk + GHC = Pain. why? are you tried to call Gtk2Hs from only one thread? -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Section Syntax Errors
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006, David House wrote: On 11/11/06, Aditya Siram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: subOne :: [Integer] - [Integer] subOne = map (- 1) The short answer is that this is interpreted as negative unity, rather than a section of binary minus. There are two common workarounds: subOne = map (subtract 1) subOne = map (+ (-1)) There's a whole minefield of opinions on whether this is the right syntax or not. I'm sure you could google through the archives to research this a bit more. E.g. this thread http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2006-August/017403.html continued here: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2006-September/017941.html ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[4]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
Hi Bulat, http://haskell.org/~duncan/gtk2hs/gtk2hs-0.9.10.exe That's the most recent Gtk2Hs for 6.4.2. The one thing you should be aware of is that Windows + Threading + Gtk2Hs + Gtk + GHC = Pain. why? are you tried to call Gtk2Hs from only one thread? I think so, yes. Or there are bizare -threaded restrictions. Only Duncan (and perhaps Simon Marlow) understand this. I merely got bit by it... Thanks Neil ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[6]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
Hello Neil, Monday, November 13, 2006, 5:06:02 PM, you wrote: http://haskell.org/~duncan/gtk2hs/gtk2hs-0.9.10.exe That's the most recent Gtk2Hs for 6.4.2. the http://haskell.org/gtk2hs/download/ page says that gtk2hs is available only for 6.4.1 The one thing you should be aware of is that Windows + Threading + Gtk2Hs + Gtk + GHC = Pain. why? are you tried to call Gtk2Hs from only one thread? I think so, yes. Or there are bizare -threaded restrictions. Only Duncan (and perhaps Simon Marlow) understand this. I merely got bit by it... it will be great to see comments about this. it's impossible to write my program without using threaded RTS -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: best Linux for GHC?
Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: of remaining, Ubuntu has widest support here while SuSe is favourite of my friend. one thing that i like in suse is that it uses the same RPMs as RedHat and RPMs is widely used for packaging software available via internet. Is Ubuntu supports RPMs too? Hi Bulat, forget RPM's, real men use DEB's. Ubuntu -- being a Debian derivative -- does so, too. Btw Debian unstable has got GHC 6.6, and isn't unstable nowadays, except for the name. Better call it Sid; the freezing process has already begun. If you are interested in a stable system with GHC 6.6, go with Debian Sid until it transforms into Etch (the next stable version). Then you can forget hacking Linux for a couple of years. On the other hand, it will probably take some months until release, which brings some risk in the game. -- Regards, Feri. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: best Linux for GHC?
Yes, but I wouldn't recommend installing rpms in debian-based system (although, it can work perfectly). GHC 6.6 is in Debian unstable (and should be in Ubuntu 6.10 or development branch). Ubuntu universe repositiry is automatically updated from Debian repos thus being one of the largest repos for Linux. PS: I'm using Debian testing/unstable. -- WBR, Max Vasin ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: what GUI library should i select?
On linux you should use your package manager (whenever possible), not binaries from the site (or compile it yourself). -- WBR, Max Vasin. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: best Linux for GHC?
Max Vasin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, but I wouldn't recommend installing rpms in debian-based system (although, it can work perfectly). GHC 6.6 is in Debian unstable (and should be in Ubuntu 6.10 or development branch). Ubuntu universe repositiry is automatically updated from Debian repos thus being one of the largest repos for Linux. PS: I'm using Debian testing/unstable. How up to date will Debian unstable's GHC be kept, though? It seems pretty good at the moment, but there have been times when we've had to install from source instead of via Debian earlier this year so that we had GHC features and bugfixes in place - the Debian version has got rather out of date at times with respect to stuff we needed. -- Mark ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: best Linux for GHC?
Hallo, On 11/13/06, Mark T.B. Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How up to date will Debian unstable's GHC be kept, though? It seems pretty good at the moment, but there have been times when we've had to install from source instead of via Debian earlier this year so that we had GHC features and bugfixes in place - the Debian version has got rather out of date at times with respect to stuff we needed. No OpenGL neither Gtk2hs in Debian Sid yet. :-( -- -alex http://www.ventonegro.org/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Debugging
On 13.11.2006 16:48 Pepe Iborra wrote: Hi Valentin Please, take a look at the Haskell Wiki page for debugging. http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Debugging You will find that thanks to Neil Mitchell there is a Windows version of Hat available. Perhaps you can add your experiences with it if it works for you. Oh silly me, I was looking that page, but I didn't notice this. Thanks a lot, pepe. I'll try, and I'll post feedback here. Valentin ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[6]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
On 11/13/06, Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Neil, Monday, November 13, 2006, 5:06:02 PM, you wrote: http://haskell.org/~duncan/gtk2hs/gtk2hs-0.9.10.exe That's the most recent Gtk2Hs for 6.4.2. the http://haskell.org/gtk2hs/download/ page says that gtk2hs is available only for 6.4.1 The one thing you should be aware of is that Windows + Threading + Gtk2Hs + Gtk + GHC = Pain. why? are you tried to call Gtk2Hs from only one thread? I think so, yes. Or there are bizare -threaded restrictions. Only Duncan (and perhaps Simon Marlow) understand this. I merely got bit by it... it will be great to see comments about this. it's impossible to write my program without using threaded RTS I'm not an expert, but I think the only solutions available depend on some sort of polling. E.g. you could start the GUI in a single bound thread, and then pass in all GUI calls to a channel. Then you would attach an event handler to idle event (or a timer) which checks to see if there are any items in the channel, and if so runs them in the GUI thread. The problem is that you can't actually run GUI actions from other threads, you can only schedule them to be run by the GUI thread, and you can't actually insert your block on the UI actions queue as well as message queue in the GTK event loop. So you have to every now and then do this yourself. This could end up in a situation where you very often check this channel and it's empty, which uses unnecessary resources, or it could end up in a situation where you don't check it often enough and any UI actions caused by other threads get delayed. I suspect that a more sophistated scheduler could be written which helps with most of this (i.e. use a timer with some default value, if there are many items in the channel then decrease the timout value, if there are no items in the channel increase the timout value up to some maximum). /S -- Sebastian Sylvan +46(0)736-818655 UIN: 44640862 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Debugging
Can you manage to compile GHC under Windows? Compiling GHC under Windows is known to be a bit tricky and time consuming, certainly not for the novice user, although the steps are well detailed in the GHC developer documentation. If so, I'd encourage you to play with the Ghci Debugger project. But beware, it is still in an experimental phase and there are some pending issues. If you want to try it I have set up the repository to point to the last good known version I have around. Just follow the instructions on how to get the patches in the wiki page. Otherwise, I'd advise you to stick to Debug.Trace and friends. Cheers pepe On 13/11/2006, at 17:29, Valentin Gjorgjioski wrote: On 13.11.2006 16:54 Valentin Gjorgjioski wrote: On 13.11.2006 16:48 Pepe Iborra wrote: Hi Valentin Please, take a look at the Haskell Wiki page for debugging. http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Debugging You will find that thanks to Neil Mitchell there is a Windows version of Hat available. Perhaps you can add your experiences with it if it works for you. Oh silly me, I was looking that page, but I didn't notice this. Thanks a lot, pepe. I'll try, and I'll post feedback here. I install it, I tried it, and it doesn't work for me. ./Hat/DML.hs:535:66: Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: `Integral a' arising from use of `*^' at ./Hat/DML.hs:535:66-69 Probable fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) And this is line 535 T.uapp2 p125v94v125v148 p125v147v125v147 p (+^) (*^) After that, I have in my code used operator ^, and I deleted that operator. Program finally compiled, but now, hat-observe reports me an error... this program has encountered a problem So, I will be really happy with something simple as Hugs.Observe if it works with floats. Some recommendation please? Valentin ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: best Linux for GHC?
Alex Queiroz wrote: Hallo, On 11/13/06, Mark T.B. Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How up to date will Debian unstable's GHC be kept, though? It seems pretty good at the moment, but there have been times when we've had to install from source instead of via Debian earlier this year so that we had GHC features and bugfixes in place - the Debian version has got rather out of date at times with respect to stuff we needed. No OpenGL neither Gtk2hs in Debian Sid yet. :-( I'd recommend Gentoo for using these kind of packages. We even have darcs repository versions of Gtk2Hs in our gentoo haskell overlay. Regards, ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Testing non-exported functions using ghci
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, Joachim Breitner wrote: Am Montag, den 13.11.2006, 21:24 +1100 schrieb John Ky: I have modules that don't export some functions. Is there a way I can access them from ghci without exporting them? It seems that if there are .hi files around, ghci can't reach the non-exported functions, but if you delete this file, it works. or 'touch' the source module http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/ghci-compiled.html ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
afaik, there are just two good enough libs - wxHaskell and GtkHs. can anyone point (or write) detailed comparison of their features? One point in wxHaskell's favour is that it supports Mac OS X directly. At present, to the best of my knowledge, you can only run GtkHs applications on OS X using the X Windows server. Whilst this works, it's a _long_ way from native look and feel. If OS X support is significant to you, this may sway your decision. Tim ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] best Linux for GHC?
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 13:36:13 +0300, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Ketil, Monday, November 13, 2006, 10:45:59 AM, you wrote: My friend offered me 3 variants: SuSe, Fedora Core 5, free variant of RedHat (i can't remember its name, may be Ubuntu?) CentOS, perhaps? It is usually good advice to choose whatever your friends are using, thanks to everyone who answered my question! as you say, FC and CentOS are not ideal for me. Gentoo is too good for me, it is for unix geeks while i just don't have resources to play one more Game. i think that i will install it on my next box of remaining, Ubuntu has widest support here while SuSe is favourite of my friend. one thing that i like in suse is that it uses the same RPMs as RedHat and RPMs is widely used for packaging software available via internet. Is Ubuntu supports RPMs too? I think it's widely regarded as a Bad Idea to mix packages between distributions. I would suggest Ubuntu (or Debian Sid if you are interested in getting newer versions of GHC). I think you'd find it difficult to find software that wasn't already in Ubuntu's multiverse repository. /M -- Magnus Therning (OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://therning.org/magnus Software is not manufactured, it is something you write and publish. Keep Europe free from software patents, we do not want censorship by patent law on written works. `In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were REAL men, women were REAL women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were REAL small furry creatures from Aplha Centauri.' -- The Book getting all nostalgic. pgpxFoyAG5xw8.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
Iván Pérez Domínguez wrote: Neil Mitchell wrote: Hi Bulat, afaik, there are just two good enough libs - wxHaskell and GtkHs. can anyone point (or write) detailed comparison of their features? i plan to write large GUI program in Haskell and want to select best one. the requirements that i can imagine at this moment is the following: I used to use wxHaskell. So did I. I tried gtk2hs as well. In my experience, gtk2hs is more complicated. On the other hand, gtk2hs supports glade, I think. OK, i feel like i need to give my personal opinion about this. I have been using Gtk2Hs since a bit more of a year now, and though i don't consider myself a GUI guy, i gotta say it _has_ been very easy to use for me. Most of the operations while reasoning in terms of the gtk2hs API summarizes up on: - Creating windows - Creating and adding containers into these windows with a specific layout. - Creating and adding objects (widgets) inside these containers. - Link widget-specific events with Haskell functions implementing the desired functionality. Each of these general operations translate to very well defined functions, making it a very concise and easy-to-use API imho; plus you have the automatic garbage collection feature. Besides that, you have plenty of very good documentation on the gtk2hs web site; even with a hoogle interface to search on the API. I really don't see where it is the complicated part. wxHaskell seems to be easier to understand and to use. In my case, I took a reversi game from haskell.org and did a sudoku game in a few weeks (with no prior knowledge on wxHaskell). I wanted to write a GUI program using GHC 6.4.2 and was (disturbingly) shocked to find out that _neither_ of the GUI toolkits had prebuilt packages that worked on Windows with GHC 6.4.2. I complained and within a day Duncan had done one for Gtk2Hs, and to my knowledge wxHaskell still doesn't have such a packaged version. I'm using Gentoo Linux. We obviously don't use prebuilt packaged versions, but installing it is just doing emerge wxhaskell and 'playing the... waiting game'. Gtk2hs support under Gentoo is mostly missing (the package is included, but doesn't work at all). We even have a gtk2hs darcs repository (optional to the stable package) version available on Gentoo through the Haskell overlay. Though we appreciate if you give us more detail about the 'missing' support. For this reason, I would recommend Gtk2Hs - the level of support and maintainership is far better than wxHaskell at the moment. I appreciate wxHaskell has new maintainers, but when picking a GUI toolkit where you can't easily switch later, currently maintained is a big bullet point for me! I agree. Regards, ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
Bulat Ziganshin wrote: third: are there any appetizers demonstrating features of each library and with source code available for studying? except for memory.pdf which don't mention where full source can be downloaded it will be interesting to see sources of more business-like applications developed with both libs. if there are no ones, may be i will develop basic file manager utility as such appetizer There are plenty of nice gtk2hs examples out there. You can take a look at [1]himerge, one of the applications i've been developing with gtk2hs as an example, which uses several features and common functionalities for most GUI. Regards, [1] http://www.arjox.org/himerge.html ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[4]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 16:48 +0300, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Duncan, Monday, November 13, 2006, 4:10:03 PM, you wrote: on the download page only GHC 6.4.1 support mentioned. is 6.4.2 and 6.6 supported on windows? The last official release for Windows supports GHC 6.2.2 and 6.4.1. I made another build for 6.4.2 here: http://haskell.org/~duncan/gtk2hs/gtk2hs-0.9.10.exe on linux? It builds from source fine on linux. There are also packages for some distros, like Gentoo, Debian, Fedora etc. As for 6.6, the current development version works fine with 6.6 and so of course the forthcoming release will do to. There will be new binary builds for windows too. where i can read about forthcoming gtk2hs version and when it will be released? You can subscribe to the gtk2hs-users list to get advance notice of the release and help with testing for your favourite platform. We're aiming for a 0.9.11 release before Christmas. This release will change the API slightly so we want to make sure we get it right. We don't want to have to change the api often as it's annoying. So I hope you understand why it will not be released immediately. Of course you are welcome to use the development version in the meantime. This release cycle has been rather longer than we would have liked, I expect the next one will be much shorter. Details are on the Gtk2Hs website of how to subscribe to the mailing list and how to get the development version with darcs: http://haskell.org/gtk2hs/development/ Duncan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 18:00 +, Tim Docker wrote: afaik, there are just two good enough libs - wxHaskell and GtkHs. can anyone point (or write) detailed comparison of their features? One point in wxHaskell's favour is that it supports Mac OS X directly. At present, to the best of my knowledge, you can only run GtkHs applications on OS X using the X Windows server. Whilst this works, it's a _long_ way from native look and feel. This is quite true. Fortunately the Gtk+ folk are well underway with a project to make it all more native looking. The latest released version of Gtk+ 2.10.x has 'experimental' support for running on OSX without using X11. The next step (apart from general bug fixing) is to use the right native theme. So yes, at the moment it doesn't look native on OSX but hopefully in the future it will. You can read more about that here: http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx Duncan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[6]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 17:10 +0300, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: The one thing you should be aware of is that Windows + Threading + Gtk2Hs + Gtk + GHC = Pain. why? are you tried to call Gtk2Hs from only one thread? I think so, yes. Or there are bizare -threaded restrictions. Only Duncan (and perhaps Simon Marlow) understand this. I merely got bit by it... it will be great to see comments about this. it's impossible to write my program without using threaded RTS This is a problem for all GUI libs, it's not something that's different between Gtk2Hs and wxHaskell. I think the problem is better understood in Gtk2Hs because we have tried to tackle it. I've written some multi-threaded GUI apps when using the single-threaded RTS. I have no idea if you can use threads with wxHaskell, you'd have to ask someone who knows more about it. As for the threaded RTS, currently that's only ok if you never make GUI calls from more than one Haskell thread. The reason for the restriction is that GUI libs like wxWiddgets and Gtk+ are really designed to be used in a single threaded manner[1]. I know Gtk+ does have some support for using multiple threads but it requires a lot of explicit locking so it's not easy to use from Haskell where we expect to be able to use light weight threads with ease. The problem at the moment with GUIs and GHC's threaded RTS is that there is now way to specify that all the Haskell threads that want to do GUI stuff must run on a single OS thread. It's not impossible to solve but it requires either more support from the RTS or it needs a totally different approach, perhaps using a Haskell-level threading GUI monad rather than the IO monad. Duncan [1] in fact on windows it's even worse, not only must there be no concurrent modification of GUI objects but the windows GDI enforces that *only* the thread that created an object may access/modify that object. That's a pretty severe restriction which is why we would normally say that the GUI is just single threaded rather than going into the nasty details of how exactly you really do GUIs with multiple OS threads. It's so hard to do that it's effectively just single threaded. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
I notice that the Socket returned by ghc Network.Socket (socket) has been set non-blocking. (Noticed empirically, not from documentation.) The Network.Socket functions that use it, e.g., recv, are ready for that, of course, but as a general rule, external functions that expect a socket are very likely not. So I hacked up a crude fcntl call to undo the damage and restore my socket to normal default mode, but it makes me wonder what moved the ghc library authors to depart from common usage in this respect, and provide no obvious means for the programmer to restore the normal mode? Threads, maybe? Is blocking I/O seriously incompatible with the GHC threading model (or one of the models)? If I have external library functions that use socket I/O internally, e.g., an OpenLDAP interface, that's effectively the same as a blocking socket created in Haskell, so whatever problem with one is the same with the other, right? thanks, Donn Cave, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[8]: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
Hello Duncan, Monday, November 13, 2006, 10:19:16 PM, you wrote: why? are you tried to call Gtk2Hs from only one thread? it will be great to see comments about this. it's impossible to write my program without using threaded RTS As for the threaded RTS, currently that's only ok if you never make GUI calls from more than one Haskell thread. it is what i say about. threaded RTS + multipls threads that does computations + one thread that interfaces with Gtk2Hs. afaiu, the only problem is that i need to manage both Gtk events and periodically check queue of commands from other threads, but using timer + Chan should allow to implement this -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] non-blocking Socket
[reposted with improved subject] I notice that the Socket returned by ghc Network.Socket (socket) has been set non-blocking. (Noticed empirically, not from documentation.) The Network.Socket functions that use it, e.g., recv, are ready for that, of course, but as a general rule, external functions that expect a socket are very likely not. So I hacked up a crude fcntl call to undo the damage and restore my socket to normal default mode, but it makes me wonder what moved the ghc library authors to depart from common usage in this respect, and provide no obvious means for the programmer to restore the normal mode? Threads, maybe? Is blocking I/O seriously incompatible with the GHC threading model (or one of the models)? If I have external library functions that use socket I/O internally, e.g., an OpenLDAP interface, that's effectively the same as a blocking socket created in Haskell, so whatever problem with one is the same with the other, right? thanks, Donn Cave, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
Has anyone succeeded in getting it running on OSX/intel at all? ...I had a brief go a few weeks back, managed to get the Cairo Clock running, but anything that used GTK seemed to blow up instantly. (OSX/ ppc was fine). --Ben On 13 Nov 2006, at 19:03, Duncan Coutts wrote: On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 18:00 +, Tim Docker wrote: afaik, there are just two good enough libs - wxHaskell and GtkHs. can anyone point (or write) detailed comparison of their features? One point in wxHaskell's favour is that it supports Mac OS X directly. At present, to the best of my knowledge, you can only run GtkHs applications on OS X using the X Windows server. Whilst this works, it's a _long_ way from native look and feel. This is quite true. Fortunately the Gtk+ folk are well underway with a project to make it all more native looking. The latest released version of Gtk+ 2.10.x has 'experimental' support for running on OSX without using X11. The next step (apart from general bug fixing) is to use the right native theme. So yes, at the moment it doesn't look native on OSX but hopefully in the future it will. You can read more about that here: http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx Duncan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 20:49 +, Ben Moseley wrote: Has anyone succeeded in getting it running on OSX/intel at all? I'm not sure actually. I seem to recall someone trying it but I can't remember who now. cc-ing to gtk2hs-users in case anyone knows: has anyone on OSX tried the new Gtk+ 2.10.x that doesn't use X11? ...I had a brief go a few weeks back, managed to get the Cairo Clock running, but anything that used GTK seemed to blow up instantly. (OSX/ ppc was fine). Did you try any of the C examples, like gtk-demo? I'm afraid I don't have access to OSX. We're actually looking for someone to help with maintaining Gtk2Hs on OSX (and someone for windows too). So if you're interested or know anyone who is interested then do get in touch. Duncan On 13 Nov 2006, at 19:03, Duncan Coutts wrote: One point in wxHaskell's favour is that it supports Mac OS X directly. At present, to the best of my knowledge, you can only run GtkHs applications on OS X using the X Windows server. Whilst this works, it's a _long_ way from native look and feel. This is quite true. Fortunately the Gtk+ folk are well underway with a project to make it all more native looking. The latest released version of Gtk+ 2.10.x has 'experimental' support for running on OSX without using X11. The next step (apart from general bug fixing) is to use the right native theme. So yes, at the moment it doesn't look native on OSX but hopefully in the future it will. You can read more about that here: http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] what GUI library should i select?
gtk-demo seemed to run fine. --Ben On 13 Nov 2006, at 21:01, Duncan Coutts wrote: On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 20:49 +, Ben Moseley wrote: Has anyone succeeded in getting it running on OSX/intel at all? I'm not sure actually. I seem to recall someone trying it but I can't remember who now. cc-ing to gtk2hs-users in case anyone knows: has anyone on OSX tried the new Gtk+ 2.10.x that doesn't use X11? ...I had a brief go a few weeks back, managed to get the Cairo Clock running, but anything that used GTK seemed to blow up instantly. (OSX/ ppc was fine). Did you try any of the C examples, like gtk-demo? I'm afraid I don't have access to OSX. We're actually looking for someone to help with maintaining Gtk2Hs on OSX (and someone for windows too). So if you're interested or know anyone who is interested then do get in touch. Duncan On 13 Nov 2006, at 19:03, Duncan Coutts wrote: One point in wxHaskell's favour is that it supports Mac OS X directly. At present, to the best of my knowledge, you can only run GtkHs applications on OS X using the X Windows server. Whilst this works, it's a _long_ way from native look and feel. This is quite true. Fortunately the Gtk+ folk are well underway with a project to make it all more native looking. The latest released version of Gtk+ 2.10.x has 'experimental' support for running on OSX without using X11. The next step (apart from general bug fixing) is to use the right native theme. So yes, at the moment it doesn't look native on OSX but hopefully in the future it will. You can read more about that here: http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] best Linux for GHC?
as RedHat and RPMs is widely used for packaging software available via internet. Is Ubuntu supports RPMs too? I think it's widely regarded as a Bad Idea to mix packages between distributions. I would suggest Ubuntu (or Debian Sid if you are interested in getting newer versions of GHC). I think you'd find it difficult to find software that wasn't already in Ubuntu's multiverse repository. Please note: Debian does support RPM, either as RPM's, or by conversion (through the alien utility) to DEB's. My experience with such mixing is that it usually goes fine without any problems, although now and again, a bit of tinkering is necessary. Murray Gross ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
