Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux users needed for OpenGL extensions survey
On Mon, Jul 08, 2013 at 09:55:08PM -0700, Kirill Zaborsky wrote: Brian, I think it would be better to provide your email in the thread. E.g. from http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2013-July/109061.html I can only reply to the maillist. I'm answering now through Google Groups hope it will get to you. Brian's email address is at the top of that page. Just replace at with @. Tom ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux users needed for OpenGL extensions survey
Brian, I think it would be better to provide your email in the thread. E.g. from http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2013-July/109061.html I can only reply to the maillist. I'm answering now through Google Groups hope it will get to you. Kind regards, Kirill Zaborsky воскресенье, 7 июля 2013 г., 22:54:04 UTC+4 пользователь Brian Lewis написал: Hi, I'm doing a survey to find out how well various OpenGL extensions are supported, to know where to focus efforts on Haskell game software. If you run Linux on your desktop and want to help, here's how: 1.) Save the information like this: $ glxinfo SOMENAME.glxinfo ... where SOMENAME is your name, or nickname, or the computer's name, whatever you like. If you don't have glxinfo, you might need to install mesa-utils on Ubuntu, or mesa-demos on Arch. 2.) Ensure the file contains information about OpenGL extensions supported by your graphics card. 3.) Attach it to me *off list*. If you have questions, please ask me *off list*. If there's interest, I'll make the survey results available. Thanks! ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list haskel...@haskell.org javascript: http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe qrilka.glxinfo Description: Binary data ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Linux users needed for OpenGL extensions survey
Hi, I'm doing a survey to find out how well various OpenGL extensions are supported, to know where to focus efforts on Haskell game software. If you run Linux on your desktop and want to help, here's how: 1.) Save the information like this: $ glxinfo SOMENAME.glxinfo ... where SOMENAME is your name, or nickname, or the computer's name, whatever you like. If you don't have glxinfo, you might need to install mesa-utils on Ubuntu, or mesa-demos on Arch. 2.) Ensure the file contains information about OpenGL extensions supported by your graphics card. 3.) Attach it to me *off list*. If you have questions, please ask me *off list*. If there's interest, I'll make the survey results available. Thanks! ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Jason Dagit: The reason I started telling everyone to avoid GHC in apt was the way it was packaged. [..] If they are lucky they figure out which apt package to install. I think people who are too lazy to bother to find out how their distribution works, should avoid any distribution. % apt-cache search foo % sudo apt-get install libghc6-foo\* Erik de Castro Lopo mle...@mega-nerd.com writes: Debian doesn't have 'The Haskell Platform', it has a package named haskell-platform Ubuntu (10.4) doesn't seem to? Is this an omission? -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Ketil Malde ke...@malde.org writes: I think people who are too lazy to bother to find out how their distribution works, should avoid any distribution. % apt-cache search foo % sudo apt-get install libghc6-foo\* Agreed (to the extent that someone who can't be bothered figuring out an advanced distribution like Gentoo or LFS should try a simpler one first like Ubuntu before completely giving up). Erik de Castro Lopo mle...@mega-nerd.com writes: Debian doesn't have 'The Haskell Platform', it has a package named haskell-platform Ubuntu (10.4) doesn't seem to? Is this an omission? Hasn't been ported yet IIRC. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Hi Ivan. Excerpts from Ivan Miljenovic's message of Ter Mar 30 00:01:19 -0300 2010: On 30 March 2010 13:55, Jason Dagit da...@codersbase.com wrote: (...) [..] now trying to profile something, oh wait, some problem again. Agreed, if Debian didn't include the profiling libraries with GHC (though is this due to how Debian does packages?). The profiling libraries included in ghc6 are available in the ghc6-prof package. Greetings. (...) -- marcot http://wiki.debian.org/MarcoSilva ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Hi Jason and other, thanks for the suggestions, the Debian Haskell Team is eager to learn why people do or don’t use the packaged libraries. Am Dienstag, den 30.03.2010, 14:01 +1100 schrieb Ivan Miljenovic: On 30 March 2010 13:55, Jason Dagit da...@codersbase.com wrote: [..] now trying to profile something, oh wait, some problem again. Agreed, if Debian didn't include the profiling libraries with GHC (though is this due to how Debian does packages?). The profiling data is put in -prof packages, i.e. ghc-prof, libghc6-network-prof etc. Indeed, there is no easy way to tell the package system: Whenever I install a Haskell -dev package, please install the -prof package as well. It has been proposed to just drop the -prof packages and include it in the -dev package, as disk space is cheap. But ghc6-prof does weigh 254M, and not everybody who wants to modify his xmonad config wants to install that. Unless it still doesn't provide profiling libraries, the extralibs problem is no more. There is, however, the Haskell Platform (which Debian seems to have almost had complete support for until the new one came out; now they've got to start again... _ ). No big deal this time, only minor version bumps and then rebuilding all depending libraries. Maybe we will do this with ghc6-6.12.2, maybe before. Greetings, Joachim -- Joachim nomeata Breitner Debian Developer nome...@debian.org | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Keyid: 4743206C JID: nome...@joachim-breitner.de | http://people.debian.org/~nomeata signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Joachim Breitner nome...@debian.org writes: The profiling data is put in -prof packages, i.e. ghc-prof, libghc6-network-prof etc. Indeed, there is no easy way to tell the package system: Whenever I install a Haskell -dev package, please install the -prof package as well. One option might to add a fourth package: a virtual package that includes all the others. (E.g. a libghc6-network that would pull libghc6-network-dev, -prof and -doc.) I generally just add a wildcard (apt-get install libghc6-network-\*), though, which isn't a lot harder. -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 4:53 AM, Joachim Breitner nome...@debian.orgwrote: Hi, Am Sonntag, den 28.03.2010, 09:04 +0100 schrieb Magnus Therning: I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together somewhat when it comes to Haskel development. Many of the reasons for my deserting Debian seem have been taken care of. so, what is missing for you to come back :-) The reason I started telling everyone to avoid GHC in apt was the way it was packaged. Casual Haskell users would install GHC but get something like 1/10th of the libraries GHC installs when you do a source install and none of the profiled libraries. Everything seems fine and working. A few days later, this casual user tries to build something and cannot find the libraries they need. Usually they would struggle to find them and when when they did find out where to get them the answer was often, It should have come with ghc. They're baffled. If they are lucky they figure out which apt package to install. Now fast forward a few weeks. This casual user is now trying to profile something, oh wait, some problem again. If it had been an install from the ghc source then only additional packages on hackage would need to be hunted down and installed. Basically, it was a monumental headache for casual users to hunt down the full package list to reconstruct what you'd get from the source install. So, at some point, I just started telling all my friends to avoid the ghc in apt and go straight for the tarballs from GHC HQ. This advice seemed to save a lot of head scratching later. To me, until there is one obvious package to install to get the same set of files as a normal ghc install I will continue to discourage people from getting ghc from apt :) I've heard virtual packages could be used to fix the problem. That would be nice as long as the virtual package is easy to find and the name tips people off that it's the GHC they really want. I hope you find my feedback useful :) Jason PS It's been several years since I checked on GHC in debian, maybe my concerns have already been addressed. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On 30 March 2010 13:55, Jason Dagit da...@codersbase.com wrote: The reason I started telling everyone to avoid GHC in apt was the way it was packaged. Casual Haskell users would install GHC but get something like 1/10th of the libraries GHC installs when you do a source install Is that because Debian didn't bundle the extralibs with GHC? If so, then that's a fallacy that people thought those libraries came with GHC (so much so that with 6.10.4 a lot of people were complaining that GHC no longer shipped with network, when technically it never did). [..] they would struggle to find them and when when they did find out where to get them the answer was often, It should have come with ghc. No, they shouldn't have. These libraries should be packaged individually, especially since Hackage started being used a lot. [..] now trying to profile something, oh wait, some problem again. Agreed, if Debian didn't include the profiling libraries with GHC (though is this due to how Debian does packages?). If it had been an install from the ghc source As in a custom compile from source? In that case there would definitely not have been any extralibs unless you explicitly added them. To me, until there is one obvious package to install to get the same set of files as a normal ghc install I will continue to discourage people from getting ghc from apt :) Unless it still doesn't provide profiling libraries, the extralibs problem is no more. There is, however, the Haskell Platform (which Debian seems to have almost had complete support for until the new one came out; now they've got to start again... _ ). -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Ivan Miljenovic wrote: [..] now trying to profile something, oh wait, some problem again. Agreed, if Debian didn't include the profiling libraries with GHC (though is this due to how Debian does packages?). The haskell packages for Debian (I am one) have decided to stick to a pattern where if an upstream Haskell library is called 'foo' then: - The source code package will be called haskell-foo. - The library will be called libghc6-foo-dev. - The profiling version will be called libghc6-foo-prof - The documentation will be called libghc6-foo-doc. There might still be a small number of packages doing a variation on the above (especially for the source and doc packages). To me, until there is one obvious package to install to get the same set of files as a normal ghc install I will continue to discourage people from getting ghc from apt :) Unless it still doesn't provide profiling libraries, the extralibs problem is no more. There is, however, the Haskell Platform (which Debian seems to have almost had complete support for until the new one came out; now they've got to start again... _ ). Actually not quite correct. Debian does not strictly follow the Haskell Platform, mainly because some libraries in Debian were already at a later version when the first platform was released. The current situation can be seen here: http://wiki.debian.org/Haskell/Platform However, installing the Debian haskell-platform package should get close enough to the official Haskell Platform for most users not to notice. Erik -- -- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On 30 March 2010 14:33, Erik de Castro Lopo mle...@mega-nerd.com wrote: The haskell packages for Debian (I am one) You are a Haskell _package_? :p - The source code package will be called haskell-foo. Is this an actual installable package (so you're installing the actual source code?) ? Debian does not strictly follow the Haskell Platform, mainly because some libraries in Debian were already at a later version when the first platform was released. Hence the almost complete: you can't say to have Platform support unless you have all of those exact packages. (Whilst Gentoo has meta-ebuilds for the platform, they're not exactly encouraged: we're going to be using them more as a basis of future stabilisation efforts rather than as something users should install. Note also that at least since I've been using it, Gentoo hasn't used extralibs and has installed made those libraries available separately.) -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Ivan Miljenovic wrote: On 30 March 2010 14:33, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: The haskell packages for Debian (I am one) You are a Haskell _package_? :p s/packages/packagers/ Although I speak for me, not the group. - The source code package will be called haskell-foo. Is this an actual installable package (so you're installing the actual source code?) ? The command: apt-get source haskell-foo will grab the haskell-foo source package bundle which includes the original source tarball, a diff.gz that gets applied to that tarball to make it into a debian package and a crypto signed file with md5 and sha1 signatures of the previous two files. It will then check the signatures and if they are ok, extract the original tarball and apply the diff. Debian does not strictly follow the Haskell Platform, mainly because some libraries in Debian were already at a later version when the first platform was released. Hence the almost complete: you can't say to have Platform support unless you have all of those exact packages. Debian doesn't have 'The Haskell Platform', it has a package named haskell-platform which conforms as closely as is reasonably possible to the former. For instance, if the Platform specifies Foo-1.0 and that has a security vulnerability but Foo-1.1 doesn't, then Debian is highly likely to ship Foo-1.1 instead. Erik -- -- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com writes: I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian I think Debian (I use Ubuntu, which inherits its packages) just got a lot better. I upgraded to 10.4 Lucid, and now I have ghc 6.12.1 and a lot of libraries from the distribution. My main reason for using Ubuntu is that it does relatively frequent and stable releases, good sized package repository, and a large user base. This way, there are a zillion other users with the exact same set of packages, and any problem you encounter is very likely to have been encountered (and solved) by somebody else already. -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote: Hi, I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame. Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? If security is important, you might want SELinux. I know Fedora does SELinux rather well, but I haven't used it with any other distribution. Jaso ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:13:04 -0500 Jeff == Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com wrote: Jeff A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot Jeff of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth Jeff looking into. +1 for Arch. Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
My choice is latest packages available throug package manager and I use Fedora 12 as of now. Fedora 13 is coming out with ghc 6.12 By the way did you find out any packaged rpms for ghc on Centos? I remember a thread from haskell beginners on this where somebody was trying to get ghc installed on Centos and was doing it from sources. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Gour g...@gour-nitai.com wrote: On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:13:04 -0500 Jeff == Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com wrote: Jeff A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot Jeff of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth Jeff looking into. +1 for Arch. Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Regards Lakshmi Narasimhan T V ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On 28/03/10 08:50, Gour wrote: On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:13:04 -0500 Jeff == Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com wrote: Jeff A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot Jeff of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth Jeff looking into. +1 for Arch. Add one more for Arch. I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together somewhat when it comes to Haskel development. Many of the reasons for my deserting Debian seem have been taken care of. /M -- Magnus Therning(OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4) magnus＠therning．org Jabber: magnus＠therning．org http://therning.org/magnus identi.ca|twitter: magthe signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
As a developer in 3 languages (ruby java professionally, haskell as hobby) I must say I really prefer just managing this manually, separate from the package manager. I'm running ubuntu LTS (8.04) on production servers. I don't want to upgrade a server OS every 6 months, so I really like the more conservative LTS approach that ubuntu took. But this would mean that an environment for a language would also be somewhat frozen for at least 2 years, which isn't very useful. When 10.04 gets out with ghc 6.12.1, it will still mean that's the only thing available until 2012, or I need to upgrade the entire OS every 6 months. Developers prefer newer versions of ubuntu on their machines, or another distro (or use a mac). To get stuff working the same on all machines, it's really just the easiest just to use manual installation. I just keep stuff in /opt /opt/ghc-6.10.4 /opt/ghc-6.12.1 /opt/java6 /opt/jruby-1.4 /opt/ruby-1.9 /opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.6 /opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.7 This has a lot of advantages: - I don't have to wait for certain updated packages (for libs or compiler / interpreter stuff). - I can keep multiple versions of a language around and just switch by changing PATH (for which I have aliases/helpers). This opens up possibilities to keep legacy code running (I mean upgrading to ubuntu 10.04 will mean breaking any apps that aren't fully 6.12 compatible yet), and allows somewhat more experimental projects to use latests-and-greatest (or even beta) versions of an environment. - no problems mixing package-manager installed libs with manually installed stuff I saw this has improved a bit for ruby/haskell quite a bit, now allowing installation of manually installed libs to a user home-dir. But I prefer not splitting my packages over multiple locations, so just keeping them in 1 place manually. This means that (when building/installing stuff) I have to install some packages like gcc/binutils and some -dev (header) packages when I need to bind to native code (I can uninstall them afterwards). For getting an environment uprunning I just have some bash-scripts which install needed (package-manager) packages, download the sources I need and install stuff to /opt, and clean up afterwards. It's easy to keep those scripts portable between distributions/versions/architectures. This way, developers can run any distro they like, and I can keep using the more conservative LTS release on production. For production machines (that all have same OS and architecture) I build everything on 1 machine and have others just sync the /opt stuff if needed. This might not be a solution for you, it really depends on your needs, but for me, I found it's often useful to control the exact environment an application needs and it gives developers the freedom to run whatever OS they like, which is a huge benefit if you use contractors or if devs want to work from home. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote: Hi, I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame. Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? Chris --- Chris Dornan email : ch...@chrisdornan.com tel : +1 (847) 691 7945 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Hi, Am Sonntag, den 28.03.2010, 09:04 +0100 schrieb Magnus Therning: I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together somewhat when it comes to Haskel development. Many of the reasons for my deserting Debian seem have been taken care of. so, what is missing for you to come back :-) Greetings, Joachim (with his Debian-Haskell-Group member hat on) -- Joachim nomeata Breitner Debian Developer nome...@debian.org | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Keyid: 4743206C JID: nome...@joachim-breitner.de | http://people.debian.org/~nomeata signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
RE: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Thanks everyone, Your observations have been most valuable but Mathijs' advice was excellent. You may well want to pick a distribution that supports Haskell in choosing a distribution for general work but for a serious project you in effect build your own Haskell distribution and choose the Linux distribution that matches the destination ecosystem--in my case CentOS. This has nothing at all to do with my own preferences but the fact that CentOS is already being used in the target system (comprising multiple Linux systems). Thanks again, Chris -Original Message- From: haskell-cafe-boun...@haskell.org [mailto:haskell-cafe-boun...@haskell.org] On Behalf Of Mathijs Kwik Sent: 28 March 2010 5:13 AM To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution As a developer in 3 languages (ruby java professionally, haskell as hobby) I must say I really prefer just managing this manually, separate from the package manager. I'm running ubuntu LTS (8.04) on production servers. I don't want to upgrade a server OS every 6 months, so I really like the more conservative LTS approach that ubuntu took. But this would mean that an environment for a language would also be somewhat frozen for at least 2 years, which isn't very useful. When 10.04 gets out with ghc 6.12.1, it will still mean that's the only thing available until 2012, or I need to upgrade the entire OS every 6 months. Developers prefer newer versions of ubuntu on their machines, or another distro (or use a mac). To get stuff working the same on all machines, it's really just the easiest just to use manual installation. I just keep stuff in /opt /opt/ghc-6.10.4 /opt/ghc-6.12.1 /opt/java6 /opt/jruby-1.4 /opt/ruby-1.9 /opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.6 /opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.7 This has a lot of advantages: - I don't have to wait for certain updated packages (for libs or compiler / interpreter stuff). - I can keep multiple versions of a language around and just switch by changing PATH (for which I have aliases/helpers). This opens up possibilities to keep legacy code running (I mean upgrading to ubuntu 10.04 will mean breaking any apps that aren't fully 6.12 compatible yet), and allows somewhat more experimental projects to use latests-and-greatest (or even beta) versions of an environment. - no problems mixing package-manager installed libs with manually installed stuff I saw this has improved a bit for ruby/haskell quite a bit, now allowing installation of manually installed libs to a user home-dir. But I prefer not splitting my packages over multiple locations, so just keeping them in 1 place manually. This means that (when building/installing stuff) I have to install some packages like gcc/binutils and some -dev (header) packages when I need to bind to native code (I can uninstall them afterwards). For getting an environment uprunning I just have some bash-scripts which install needed (package-manager) packages, download the sources I need and install stuff to /opt, and clean up afterwards. It's easy to keep those scripts portable between distributions/versions/architectures. This way, developers can run any distro they like, and I can keep using the more conservative LTS release on production. For production machines (that all have same OS and architecture) I build everything on 1 machine and have others just sync the /opt stuff if needed. This might not be a solution for you, it really depends on your needs, but for me, I found it's often useful to control the exact environment an application needs and it gives developers the freedom to run whatever OS they like, which is a huge benefit if you use contractors or if devs want to work from home. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote: Hi, I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame. Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? Chris --- Chris Dornan email : ch...@chrisdornan.com tel : +1 (847) 691 7945 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote: I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame. Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? I can only speak for Gentoo, not for the others, and as a Haskell developer I am very happy with it. It has the Haskell Platform as well as lots of independent packages in the mainstream repository. Also it has a very flexible package management system called Portage. Using the 'haskell' Portage overlay, you get many non-mainstream Haskell packages managed within Portage without having to use cabal-install. In fact, because of this I haven't even known about cabal-install for a long time. However, as always there is a catch. Gentoo is a source distribution, which means that you compile the entire system from scratch. On modern computers this is quite fast, but sometimes it can hammer on your patience. Also it happens that you get compilation errors, in which case you need to resolve the issue (most are easy to solve though). Greets, Ertugrul -- nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife = sex) http://blog.ertes.de/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On 28/03/10 12:53, Joachim Breitner wrote: Hi, Am Sonntag, den 28.03.2010, 09:04 +0100 schrieb Magnus Therning: I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together somewhat when it comes to Haskel development. Many of the reasons for my deserting Debian seem have been taken care of. so, what is missing for you to come back :-) Well, maybe I should qualify that a bit. There were a few issues with Haskell in Debian in the past. Most noticeably the lack of packages in the standard repos. This seems to have been addressed. The other thing, that bit me at the time, and witch really pushed me over the edge was the lack of speed in adopting new upstream versions of ghc and some of the very basic packages. That Debian has started picking up more packages is noticeable in Hackage. However, an increase in speed wouldn't really be noticeable to a non-Debian user. So you might have improved considerably in that area too... I just wouldn't know :-) /M -- Magnus Therning(OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4) magnus＠therning．org Jabber: magnus＠therning．org http://therning.org/magnus identi.ca|twitter: magthe signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Magnus Therning wrote: Well, maybe I should qualify that a bit. There were a few issues with Haskell in Debian in the past. Most noticeably the lack of packages in the standard repos. This seems to have been addressed. The other thing, that bit me at the time, and witch really pushed me over the edge was the lack of speed in adopting new upstream versions of ghc and some of the very basic packages. That Debian has started picking up more packages is noticeable in Hackage. However, an increase in speed wouldn't really be noticeable to a non-Debian user. So you might have improved considerably in that area too... I just wouldn't know :-) Above all else, what has changed in Debian wrt Haskell is improved process. Improved process is something that makes handle of new upstream releases far easier than it was before and hence, we should be seeing the benefits of this improved process for many years to come. Erik -- -- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
2010/03/28 Ertugrul Soeylemez e...@ertes.de However, as always there is a catch. Gentoo is a source distribution, which means that you compile the entire system from scratch. On modern computers this is quite fast, but sometimes it can hammer on your patience. To be fair, Gentoo has a well thought out system for bundling up an installed build and creating a binary package for installation on other nodes. -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Mathijs Kwik wrote: As a developer in 3 languages (ruby java professionally, haskell as hobby) I must say I really prefer just managing this manually, separate from the package manager. I'm running ubuntu LTS (8.04) on production servers. But this would mean that an environment for a language would also be somewhat frozen for at least 2 years, which isn't very useful. When 10.04 gets out with ghc 6.12.1, it will still mean that's the only thing available until 2012, or I need to upgrade the entire OS every 6 months. Not necessarily. I am faced with a similar problem, having over 700 production client machines (administered remotely) in the field running the 8.04 LTS release. Because we use Debian packaging as the only sane way to manage binary distribution to that number of machines, we manage our own repository which is basically a validated version of 8.04, plus validated backports, plus our own packages. Furthermore, all of our own packages are built on an autobuilder to ensure that what is in revision control will actually build from source. The autobuilders all start off with a nearly bare install in a chroot, then install the build dependencies and finally build the package. In order for this to work for our one haskell package, I backported ghc-6.10.4 and a bunch of haskell libraries from Debian Testing so that this one package can be built in the autobuilder. I have also been hearing rumours that the next LTS release 10.04 will be more of a rolling release, where more recent versions of things will be available by enabling backports. snip This might not be a solution for you, it really depends on your needs, but for me, I found it's often useful to control the exact environment an application needs and it gives developers the freedom to run whatever OS they like, which is a huge benefit if you use contractors or if devs want to work from home. I think I found a solution with the same goals as your's, but with a different implementation. Since your machine count is smaller than mine, your scheme probably works better for your situation. For my larger machine count, I would not be happy to trade my scheme for yours :-). Cheers, Erik -- -- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Hi, I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame. Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? Chris --- Chris Dornan email : ch...@chrisdornan.com tel : +1 (847) 691 7945 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote: Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth looking into. -- Jeff Wheeler Undergraduate, Electrical Engineering University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com writes: On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote: Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth looking into. We may not have as many packages as Arch (because we don't just churn them willy-nilly) but Gentoo has a fair number of up-to-date Haskell packages in its overlay. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Linux ghci vs Windows ghci
Hello Brandon, Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:08:41 AM, you wrote: I feel that ghci code executing speed in guest os is 1.5~2x faster than host os My guess is that GHC (and the GHC RTS) on win32 is using a POSIX emulation layer supplied by mingw32 for all system calls, introducing extra overhead. 1. yes, mingw is using POSIX emulation layer for file operations, but i don't believe that it provides any serious overhead - even for i/o 2. this example was purely computational, no OS calls involved -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:bulat.zigans...@gmail.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux ghci vs Windows ghci
On Feb 21, 2010, at 06:27 , Donghee Nah wrote: I'm using Windows 7 32bit Host OS(ghc 6.8.3) and Virtualbox Archlinux Guest OS(ghc 6.8.4) I feel that ghci code executing speed in guest os is 1.5~2x faster than host os My guess is that GHC (and the GHC RTS) on win32 is using a POSIX emulation layer supplied by mingw32 for all system calls, introducing extra overhead. Unfortunately, I don't think we have enough Windows- familiar folks with enough understanding of the GHC RTS to optimize it for the native Windows API. -- brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] allb...@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allb...@ece.cmu.edu electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon universityKF8NH PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux ghci vs Windows ghci
Hi,
Am Sonntag, den 21.02.2010, 13:58 +0100 schrieb Ketil Malde:
Donghee Nah ppk...@gmail.com writes:
I feel that ghci code executing speed in guest os is 1.5~2x faster than host
os
The code:
let t n = do {if n `mod` 10 == 0 then print n else return ()} t (n+1)
t 1
any clue?
Speed of the terminal? Cost of syscalls (user/kernel transitions)?
also note that I observed similar things with Win32 code vs. Linux code
when compiling stuff unoptimized. See
http://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/archives/358-Building-arbtt-for-Windows.html
the first three paragraphs.
But I don’t know why that is.
Greetings,
Joachim
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[Haskell-cafe] Linux ghci vs Windows ghci
I'm using Windows 7 32bit Host OS(ghc 6.8.3) and Virtualbox Archlinux Guest
OS(ghc 6.8.4)
I feel that ghci code executing speed in guest os is 1.5~2x faster than host
os
The code:
let t n = do {if n `mod` 10 == 0 then print n else return ()} t (n+1)
t 1
any clue?
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux ghci vs Windows ghci
Donghee Nah ppk...@gmail.com writes:
I feel that ghci code executing speed in guest os is 1.5~2x faster than host
os
The code:
let t n = do {if n `mod` 10 == 0 then print n else return ()} t (n+1)
t 1
any clue?
Speed of the terminal? Cost of syscalls (user/kernel transitions)?
-k
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems
Hi Leif, Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately this no longer works, the process is repeatedly killed for using too much memory on make install. I also had to manually install readline 4 since it's absurdly hard to open an RPM (or at least the compat one they have there). All up, this is just too hard for the amount of spare time I have at the moment. Cheers, Colin 2008/10/14 Leif Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had the same problem with the 6.8.3 install on Dreamhost, unable to determine current path or something. Ended up using 6.8.2 install, and had to crack open the rpm of the old readline version they linked, put it in $HOME/lib, and set $LD_RUN_PATH to point to that. http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/6.8.2/ghc-6.8.2-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 And there is actually an Eclipse plugin for Haskell: http://eclipsefp.sourceforge.net/ Not that I break it out for work. -Leif Warner ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems
I had the same problem with the 6.8.3 install on Dreamhost, unable to determine current path or something. Ended up using 6.8.2 install, and had to crack open the rpm of the old readline version they linked, put it in $HOME/lib, and set $LD_RUN_PATH to point to that. http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/6.8.2/ghc-6.8.2-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 And there is actually an Eclipse plugin for Haskell: http://eclipsefp.sourceforge.net/ Not that I break it out for work. -Leif Warner ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems
Ok, I tried nix but I couldn't get it to work. Initially I had a problem since I was trying to get nix to install in my home directory and on the host (Dreamhost) that's actually a symlink, which nix doesn't allow. Then once I got it installed finally it didn't build - I can't remember the details exactly. I then tried to generate hc files for 6.6.1 to install that to bootstrap from, but I couldn't get ghc to build those on my machine - looking around it seems to have a lot of problems building on Leopard. My last resort is now to install Ubuntu in VMWare, install ghc, then generate the hc files on that, get those on my host, bootstrap from that, and then build 6.8.3 from source. As an aside, is there any reason the tar of the hc files isn't available for download for versions that support it? It would make this a lot easier. Cheers, Colin ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems
Hi Chris, Unfortunately that's not easy for me, I don't know exactly what the config of the server is, and I use OSX at home. I could probably rig something up using VMWare but that's a lot of work just to install the compiler. Another option might be to create an unregisterised build, as detailed in the porting guide, then use that to bootstrap a proper build. See: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Porting Cheers, Colin ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems
Hi Marc, Great, thanks for the pointer. I'll take a look at nix, that might be an option. Thanks for the offer of server space too, but I'd really like to get it going on my own space since I have domains and whatnot pointed there. I also realise that the IDE support isn't there - it's even worse, I use IntelliJ rather than Eclipse which is positively magical at times. Something similar for a language like Haskell would be amazing. Thanks for the advice! Cheers, Colin 2008/10/6 Marc Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Colin, I only know about one other option: Try user mode linux / qemu / anotehr virtualziing software and setup the environment within that which you need... :-( Another thing you could try is installing nix (nixos.org) (software distirbution system).. It bootstraps current ghc via ghc-6.4.2 from binaries / source automatically (Don't think older compilers are supported than 6.4.x) but you'll get a complete copy of each system lib within the store direcotry. So you need some disk space. And I can't guarantee that it works out of the box.. (it works with 2.6.9 kernel.. don't know about older ones) If all you want to do is toying around I can give you an ssh account to my server which has ghc installed. Anyway be prepared that there is no IDE support coming close to what Eclipse provides for the Java language.. Sincerly Marc ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems
Hi all, I just joined this list, I'm interested in learning Haskell to complement my day job language (Java). I was interested in trying to make a simple website using Haskell in order to have something to practise on, however in my host's shared environment I can't use the Linux binary packages - I get the same errors that a few people were talking about in September - firstly the cannot determine current directory, and then after hacking the configure script the [install] Error 136. It seems that this is probably an old libc, but this is an environment that I have almost no control over so I can't fix that. Are there any building from source options if I don't already have GHC? It looks from the porting guide that I might be able to make 6.6.2 with just a C compiler, can I then use that to build 6.8.3? Thanks for any help. As a few people have commented, it would be great to make all this easier, as it's a pretty big stumbling block to starting with Haskell, and people are likely to get discouraged pretty quickly. Cheers, Colin ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems
Colin Fleming [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It looks from the porting guide that I might be able to make 6.6.2 with just a C compiler, can I then use that to build 6.8.3? I have the same problem as you -- a hosting environment with an old libc -- and had the same problem with the binary distribution. I think you can do what you have suggested, but I haven't tried. Instead I have decided to build a static binary on a local computer and then put that binary onto the host; maybe this is a solution for you too. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.
Hi, Haskell! I've downloaded the ghc-6.8.3-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 tarball, which I expected to work on my GNU/Linux box (1.2 GHz Athlon, Debian Sarge). I'm new at this game, though I'm thoroughly experienced with (and bear deep battle scars from) GNU software in general. ./configure fails with checking for path to top of build tree... configure: error: cannot determine current directory. This has been reported before in this list, but I don't think anybody ever explained the fault. Further delving finds that the following statement in the configure script triggers it: hardtop=`utils/pwd/pwd forwardslash` . utils/pwd/pwd, no matter how I call it, always crashes with Floating point exception. Surely real numbers aren't involved in determining a configuration - probably some floating point library or other is missing from my system. What is utils/pwd/pwd? What's its purpose? It's 460kB large (compared with 14kb for /bin/pwd). Is it a haskell implementation of Unix's pwd, primarily intented for non-unixy OSs? configure is supposed to ascertain my machine's config, so it's particularly disappointing that it crashes because my config isn't what it expects. Should I report this as a bug? # Anyhow, I hacked the configure script by replacing the above line by a hard-coded value, thusly: hardtop=/home/acm/haskell/ghc-6.8.3 , and the configure script finished. ;-) So I did make install, and the turgid messages rolled up my screen until it crashed, the last few lines being: nstall/lib/ghc-6.8.3' -DPKG_DATADIR='/home/acm/haskell/ghc-install/share/ghc-6.8.3' package.conf.in \ | grep -v '^#pragma GCC' \ | sed -e 's///g' -e 's/:[ ]*,/: /g' \ | /home/acm/haskell/ghc-6.8.3/utils/ghc-pkg/ghc-pkg.bin --global-conf /home/acm/haskell/ghc-install/lib/ghc-6.8.3/package.conf update - --force make[1]: *** [install] Error 136 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/acm/haskell/ghc-6.8.3/rts' make: *** [install] Error 2 Ah yes! Error 136. ;-) Don't we just love GNU bread and butter software? It's not documented on the install man page either - or the info page. Neither is Error 8. Hey, you've all been through this too: enthusiasm - 0 as t - infinity. :-( # So, I thought, who needs to install? It's a binary package, so somewhere there's going to be a top-level callable program, probably called something like ghc. Hey, yes, compile/Stage3/ghc-6.8.3. Guess what: Floating point exception. :-( I hate binary packages - I utterly loathe them. They never work. At least they never work for me. Or the distro package manager stuffs your cron config with resource hoggers you really don't want, and forgets to ask you first. I suppose they might work if your OS has been installed or updated within the last few months; otherwise, forget it. Source distributions are so much faster and easier to install because the cranial clutter you have to cope with is that much less. Trouble is, to build haskell from source, you need a working haskell to build it with. Presumably, sometime in the recent past (as measured on archaeological time scales), ghc was bootstrapped from C (or some other lowest common denomiator language). Is this route still available? Some proto-proto haskell written in C, sufficiently powerful to build a proto-haskell, sufficiently powerful to build the compiler? # I'd really love to play with haskell. But the time I've wasted so far, trying to get it working, is almost at the stage where I just can't be bothered any more. I've been here before, and I can see that I've got 1 - 3 days x 8 hours of grinding drudgery before I finally get ghc-6.8.3 working. I suppose that's just the way GNU systems are. If anybody could give me some tips as to getting a decent haskell running on my system in a reasonable, predictable amount of time, in a way which doesn't involve diagnosing and fixing problems, I'd be very grateful indeed. Thanks! -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.
Hi, Alan - ./configure fails with checking for path to top of build tree... configure: error: cannot determine current directory. Yeah, I got the exact same error yesterday when trying to install a ghc-6.8.3 binary dist on some older machine. Well, since I had 6.8.2 working there, I just used it to compile 6.8.3 from sources, which worked without any problems. I guess the 6.8.3 binary does not work because it expects a newer version of libc or whatever. I can provide the binaries I built if you need them. Best regards, J.W. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.
acm: Hi, Haskell! I've downloaded the ghc-6.8.3-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 tarball, which I expected to work on my GNU/Linux box (1.2 GHz Athlon, Debian Sarge). Was there a problem installing GHC from the Debian package system with apt? -- Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 11:20:35PM +0200, Johannes Waldmann wrote: ./configure fails with checking for path to top of build tree... configure: error: cannot determine current directory. I guess the 6.8.3 binary does not work because it expects a newer version of libc or whatever. That's right. Thanks Ian ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.
Was there a problem installing GHC from the Debian package system with apt? He said Sarge. I guess the current ghc packages are for Etch only? - J.W. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.
HI THERE, JOHANNES, what a surprise, how are you doing? Remember teaching me the 7-ring 1-count? Might've been at Erlangen, possibly Augsburg, even Berlin, but it was quite a while ago. :-) On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 11:20:35PM +0200, Johannes Waldmann wrote: Hi, Alan - ./configure fails with checking for path to top of build tree... configure: error: cannot determine current directory. Yeah, I got the exact same error yesterday when trying to install a ghc-6.8.3 binary dist on some older machine. Ah, so it's not just me. Well, since I had 6.8.2 working there, I just used it to compile 6.8.3 from sources, which worked without any problems. I guess the 6.8.3 binary does not work because it expects a newer version of libc or whatever. I can provide the binaries I built if you need them. Hey, thanks, yes please! Whether by email, or you giving me an ftp address, whatever is most convenient. That would be most appreciated. Best regards, J.W. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.
Hi, Don! On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 02:24:20PM -0700, Don Stewart wrote: acm: Hi, Haskell! I've downloaded the ghc-6.8.3-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 tarball, which I expected to work on my GNU/Linux box (1.2 GHz Athlon, Debian Sarge). Was there a problem installing GHC from the Debian package system with apt? Yes, my apt setup is broken. Because of a (now fixed) configuration error I made, aptitude (a frontend to apt) has decided it needs to delete ~400 packages from my system, some of them vital. It's an intelligent, helpful system, and maintaining consistency between packages is of utmost importance to it, more important, by far, than leaving my system in a working state. I haven't found a convenient, safe, way of resetting this deletion cache (which has been hanging around for ~1 year). Sadly its only go button is do everything pending, so I've effectively blocked myself from using it. Sorting the mess out, or even discovering whether I could safely use apt directly, is just too much drudgery; I'll be installing a new system sometime soon anyway. I hate package managers almost as much as binary packages. There are quite a lot of things I don't hate, though. ;-) That's kind of drifting off topic, though. -- Don -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've downloaded the ghc-6.8.3-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 tarball, which I expected to work on my GNU/Linux box (1.2 GHz Athlon, Debian Sarge). Was there a problem installing GHC from the Debian package system with apt? Sarge is extremely old in Linux years, and support for it was EOLed earlier this year. It ships with a particularly buggy version of glibc. I would recommend upgrading. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux kernel/library question
Thank you, Fero and Sylvain! Vasili On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:21 PM, sylvain nahas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Vasili, Please have a look at http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html The main list is linux-kernel. Depending on the level of your questions, you may also check linux-newbiehttp://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-newbie. If it concerns a defined subsystem/architecture, there is often a relevant mailing-list. Hope it helps and happy hacking, Sylvain 2008/7/21 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, I am working on POSIX stuff. I have used Linux as my POSIX OS and have read source when I could find it. Does anybody in this group of Linux newsgroup where one can ask Linux-related implementation questions? Regards, Vasili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Linux kernel/library question
Hello, I am working on POSIX stuff. I have used Linux as my POSIX OS and have read source when I could find it. Does anybody in this group of Linux newsgroup where one can ask Linux-related implementation questions? Regards, Vasili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux kernel/library question
Hi Vasili, try one of Linux groups at http://www.nabble.com/Linux-f252.html or maybe Linux kernel group http://www.nabble.com/linux-kernel-f49.html . But I don't know if there are people working with Haskell in Linux as well. But if you would like to ask something only about POSIX, I think they may help. Fero 2008/7/21 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, I am working on POSIX stuff. I have used Linux as my POSIX OS and have read source when I could find it. Does anybody in this group of Linux newsgroup where one can ask Linux-related implementation questions? Regards, Vasili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux kernel/library question
Hi Vasili, Please have a look at http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html The main list is linux-kernel. Depending on the level of your questions, you may also check linux-newbiehttp://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-newbie. If it concerns a defined subsystem/architecture, there is often a relevant mailing-list. Hope it helps and happy hacking, Sylvain 2008/7/21 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, I am working on POSIX stuff. I have used Linux as my POSIX OS and have read source when I could find it. Does anybody in this group of Linux newsgroup where one can ask Linux-related implementation questions? Regards, Vasili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
Actually with PCI chipsets, implementing a generic BusMaster DMA driver is not too hard, assuming you already have interrupts handled (and you don't want 64bit DMA support)... You just load the parameters for the disk read into the PCI registers, and wait for the completed interrupt. I wrote a diver in assembly language for my own OS project a few years ago. Keean. Iavor Diatchki wrote: Hello, There are no storage drivers at the moment. Actually part of the motivation for implementing the networking stuff was so that we can avoid doing that at least for the time being. -Iavor On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:32:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time), S. Alexander Jacobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very very cool. Has anyone written any storage drivers? If there is already TCP, has someone written an iscsi (RFC3720) driver? -Alex- On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: dons: alex: Wow! Did you also implement tcp in Haskell? On this topic, the following House code looks relevant: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Net/ There's something satsifying about seeing 'instance Functor Packet' in IPv4.hs ;) Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk? (With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be really cool to get rid of the L as well!) Sorry! By We've got a few drivers written in Haskell, I meant the Haskell community, not me personally :} You have the hOp and House developers to thank for this stuff. On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: mark: I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else, it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code. Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts? Well, it would be tricky, but fun! We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux, as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and drivers: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/ and http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/ So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway. Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, much as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9 main.c is helpful). Something like: ;) egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ... Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be good): hs_init(argc, argv); .. do something in Haskell or C land ... hs_exit(); Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass values back and forward. I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;) Cheers, Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe __ S. Alexander Jacobson tel:917-770-6565 http://alexjacobson.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
But there are plenty of minor variations on how to program and initiate DMA for different devices. -- Lennart Keean Schupke wrote: Actually with PCI chipsets, implementing a generic BusMaster DMA driver is not too hard, assuming you already have interrupts handled (and you don't want 64bit DMA support)... You just load the parameters for the disk read into the PCI registers, and wait for the completed interrupt. I wrote a diver in assembly language for my own OS project a few years ago. Keean. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
I thought the BusMaster interface was pretty uniform, unlike the earlier DMA interfaces which varied from chipset to chipset. Keean. Lennart Augustsson wrote: But there are plenty of minor variations on how to program and initiate DMA for different devices. -- Lennart Keean Schupke wrote: Actually with PCI chipsets, implementing a generic BusMaster DMA driver is not too hard, assuming you already have interrupts handled (and you don't want 64bit DMA support)... You just load the parameters for the disk read into the PCI registers, and wait for the completed interrupt. I wrote a diver in assembly language for my own OS project a few years ago. Keean. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
What is this standard BusMaster interface you talk about? I must have missed something. I've yet to see two PCI chips that do DMA the same way. -- Lennart Keean Schupke wrote: I thought the BusMaster interface was pretty uniform, unlike the earlier DMA interfaces which varied from chipset to chipset. Keean. Lennart Augustsson wrote: But there are plenty of minor variations on how to program and initiate DMA for different devices. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
Have a look at the linux kernel IDE drivers, look for Generic IDE Chipset support Generic PCI bus-master DMA support Keean. Lennart Augustsson wrote: What is this standard BusMaster interface you talk about? I must have missed something. I've yet to see two PCI chips that do DMA the same way. -- Lennart Keean Schupke wrote: I thought the BusMaster interface was pretty uniform, unlike the earlier DMA interfaces which varied from chipset to chipset. Keean. Lennart Augustsson wrote: But there are plenty of minor variations on how to program and initiate DMA for different devices. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
Keean Schupke wrote: Have a look at the linux kernel IDE drivers, look for Generic IDE Chipset support That's the part I missed, you were talking about IDE chips. Yes, they have many similarities. You can probably run many of them in one of the slower modes with a common driver. But even these chips differ in the details. -- Lennart ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
The generic busmaster diver should go all the way to UDMA mode 4 (133Mb) Keean. Lennart Augustsson wrote: Keean Schupke wrote: Have a look at the linux kernel IDE drivers, look for Generic IDE Chipset support That's the part I missed, you were talking about IDE chips. Yes, they have many similarities. You can probably run many of them in one of the slower modes with a common driver. But even these chips differ in the details. -- Lennart ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
I don't think I said anything controversial. I guess I was just over-simplifying things by only considering PC IDE hardware - but then again that must get you running on 90% of the systems people are likely to have lying around to play with a developmental OS on. On the other hand the average network driver seems to be about 2,000 lines of code, whereas if you add all the parts of the generic ide driver together you get about 20,000 lines of code. I guess that answers my question - storage is an order of magnitude harder than networking, even before including SCSI. Regards, Keean. Simon Marlow wrote: Keean, you should be aware that Lennart is something of a device driver guru. He knows what he's talking about :-) Go grep for Augustsson in the NetBSD kernel sometime. Cheers, Simon ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
Would it be harder/easier better/worse to use Linux device drivers from hOp/House as opposed to writing new disk I/O stuff in Haskell? -Alex- __ S. Alexander Jacobson tel:917-770-6565 http://alexjacobson.com On Tue, 22 Mar 2005, Keean Schupke wrote: I don't think I said anything controversial. I guess I was just over-simplifying things by only considering PC IDE hardware - but then again that must get you running on 90% of the systems people are likely to have lying around to play with a developmental OS on. On the other hand the average network driver seems to be about 2,000 lines of code, whereas if you add all the parts of the generic ide driver together you get about 20,000 lines of code. I guess that answers my question - storage is an order of magnitude harder than networking, even before including SCSI. Regards, Keean. Simon Marlow wrote: Keean, you should be aware that Lennart is something of a device driver guru. He knows what he's talking about :-) Go grep for Augustsson in the NetBSD kernel sometime. Cheers, Simon ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
Hello, There are no storage drivers at the moment. Actually part of the motivation for implementing the networking stuff was so that we can avoid doing that at least for the time being. -Iavor On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:32:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time), S. Alexander Jacobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very very cool. Has anyone written any storage drivers? If there is already TCP, has someone written an iscsi (RFC3720) driver? -Alex- On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: dons: alex: Wow! Did you also implement tcp in Haskell? On this topic, the following House code looks relevant: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Net/ There's something satsifying about seeing 'instance Functor Packet' in IPv4.hs ;) Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk? (With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be really cool to get rid of the L as well!) Sorry! By We've got a few drivers written in Haskell, I meant the Haskell community, not me personally :} You have the hOp and House developers to thank for this stuff. On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: mark: I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else, it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code. Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts? Well, it would be tricky, but fun! We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux, as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and drivers: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/ and http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/ So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway. Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, much as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9 main.c is helpful). Something like: ;) egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ... Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be good): hs_init(argc, argv); .. do something in Haskell or C land ... hs_exit(); Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass values back and forward. I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;) Cheers, Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe __ S. Alexander Jacobson tel:917-770-6565 http://alexjacobson.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else, it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code. Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts? Thanks, Mark -- Haskell vacancies in Columbus, Ohio, USA: see http://www.aetion.com/jobs.html ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
Mark Carroll wrote: I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else, it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code. Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts? You might be interested in hOp: hOp is a micro-kernel based on the RTS of GHC. It is meant to enable people to experiment with writing device drivers in Haskell. http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~sebc/hOp/ or maybe House... http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~hallgren/House/ Greg Buchholz ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
mark: I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else, it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code. Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts? Well, it would be tricky, but fun! We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux, as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and drivers: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/ and http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/ So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway. Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, much as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9 main.c is helpful). Something like: ;) egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ... Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be good): hs_init(argc, argv); .. do something in Haskell or C land ... hs_exit(); Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass values back and forward. I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;) Cheers, Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
Wow! Did you also implement tcp in Haskell? Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk? (With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be really cool to get rid of the L as well!) -Alex- __ S. Alexander Jacobson tel:917-770-6565 http://alexjacobson.com On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: mark: I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else, it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code. Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts? Well, it would be tricky, but fun! We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux, as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and drivers: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/ and http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/ So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway. Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, much as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9 main.c is helpful). Something like: ;) egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ... Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be good): hs_init(argc, argv); .. do something in Haskell or C land ... hs_exit(); Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass values back and forward. I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;) Cheers, Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
alex: Wow! Did you also implement tcp in Haskell? Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk? (With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be really cool to get rid of the L as well!) Sorry! By We've got a few drivers written in Haskell, I meant the Haskell community, not me personally :} You have the hOp and House developers to thank for this stuff. On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: mark: I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else, it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code. Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts? Well, it would be tricky, but fun! We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux, as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and drivers: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/ and http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/ So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway. Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, much as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9 main.c is helpful). Something like: ;) egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ... Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be good): hs_init(argc, argv); .. do something in Haskell or C land ... hs_exit(); Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass values back and forward. I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;) Cheers, Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
dons: alex: Wow! Did you also implement tcp in Haskell? On this topic, the following House code looks relevant: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Net/ There's something satsifying about seeing 'instance Functor Packet' in IPv4.hs ;) Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk? (With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be really cool to get rid of the L as well!) Sorry! By We've got a few drivers written in Haskell, I meant the Haskell community, not me personally :} You have the hOp and House developers to thank for this stuff. On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: mark: I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else, it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code. Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts? Well, it would be tricky, but fun! We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux, as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and drivers: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/ and http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/ So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway. Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, much as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9 main.c is helpful). Something like: ;) egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ... Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be good): hs_init(argc, argv); .. do something in Haskell or C land ... hs_exit(); Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass values back and forward. I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;) Cheers, Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers
Very very cool. Has anyone written any storage drivers? If there is already TCP, has someone written an iscsi (RFC3720) driver? -Alex- On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: dons: alex: Wow! Did you also implement tcp in Haskell? On this topic, the following House code looks relevant: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Net/ There's something satsifying about seeing 'instance Functor Packet' in IPv4.hs ;) Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk? (With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be really cool to get rid of the L as well!) Sorry! By We've got a few drivers written in Haskell, I meant the Haskell community, not me personally :} You have the hOp and House developers to thank for this stuff. On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote: mark: I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else, it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code. Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts? Well, it would be tricky, but fun! We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux, as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and drivers: http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/ and http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/ So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway. Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, much as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9 main.c is helpful). Something like: ;) egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ... Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be good): hs_init(argc, argv); .. do something in Haskell or C land ... hs_exit(); Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass values back and forward. I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;) Cheers, Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe __ S. Alexander Jacobson tel:917-770-6565 http://alexjacobson.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Announce: Haskell-related Linux RPMs
I've uploaded source RPMs and Linux RPMs (glibc) of the following programs to our FTP server ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/pub/local/pms : * Alex: Chris Dornan's scanner generator for Haskell * GHC: The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System (from CVS) * Green Card: A foreign function interface preprocessor for Haskell * Happy: An LALR(1) parser generator for Haskell * Haskell Direct: An IDL compiler for Haskell * Hugs98: A Haskell Interpreter Examples: * Installing Hugs98 on your system: rpm -i ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/pub/local/pms/hugs98-990121-1.i386.rpm * Upgrading to the latest and greatest GHC: rpm -U ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/pub/local/pms/ghc-4.03-1.i386.rpm * Building Happy locally: rpm -i ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/pub/local/pms/happy-1.5-1.src.rpm rpm -ba --clean /usr/src/packages/SPECS/happy.spec All binary RPMs install below /usr. IMHO, using a separate hierarchy like /usr/local is rather pointless with RPM's extensive bookkeeping. To the ex-Glaswegians: If I read its license correctly, Happy is freely distributable and GHC's status is changing "real soon now". But what about Haskell Direct? Have fun, Sven -- Sven PanneTel.: +49/89/2178-2235 LMU, Institut fuer Informatik FAX : +49/89/2178-2211 LFE Programmier- und Modellierungssprachen Oettingenstr. 67 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]D-80538 Muenchen http://www.pms.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/mitarbeiter/panne
Re: haskell for linux
In diku.lists.haskell you write: Ok. I know I've seen pointers for this, but for the life of me I can't find it... Does anybody know where the linux binaries are for hbc? (or any haskell implementation, really.) You'd better have lots of ram for this ;) From the README for Chalmers Lazy ML/Haskell compiler: --- LML/HBC (Lazy ML/Haskell B Compiler) Version 0.999.2 for the i386/i486 running Linux, January 1993 This is a port of the Chalmers Lazy ML and Haskell Functional Language Compilers for Linux. __ WHERE TO GET The Linux version is available via ftp from ftp.dcs.glasgow.ac.uk Login as "anonymous". Look at the directory "pub/linux". You have to get just the file "lml-0.999.2-linux.tar.Z". This file contains the binaries needed to execute LML/HBC. - Niels
