Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux users needed for OpenGL extensions survey

2013-07-09 Thread Tom Ellis
On Mon, Jul 08, 2013 at 09:55:08PM -0700, Kirill Zaborsky wrote:
 Brian, I think it would be better to provide your email in the thread. E.g. 
 from http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2013-July/109061.html I 
 can only reply to the maillist. I'm answering now through Google Groups 
 hope it will get to you.

Brian's email address is at the top of that page.  Just replace at with
@.

Tom

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux users needed for OpenGL extensions survey

2013-07-08 Thread Kirill Zaborsky
Brian, I think it would be better to provide your email in the thread. E.g. 
from http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2013-July/109061.html I 
can only reply to the maillist. I'm answering now through Google Groups 
hope it will get to you.

Kind regards,
Kirill Zaborsky

воскресенье, 7 июля 2013 г., 22:54:04 UTC+4 пользователь Brian Lewis 
написал:

 Hi, I'm doing a survey to find out how well various OpenGL extensions 
 are supported, to know where to focus efforts on Haskell game software. 

 If you run Linux on your desktop and want to help, here's how: 

 1.) Save the information like this: 
 $ glxinfo  SOMENAME.glxinfo 
 ... where SOMENAME is your name, or nickname, or the computer's 
 name, whatever you like. 
 If you don't have glxinfo, you might need to install mesa-utils on 
 Ubuntu, or mesa-demos on Arch. 

 2.) Ensure the file contains information about OpenGL extensions 
 supported by your graphics card. 

 3.) Attach it to me *off list*. 

 If you have questions, please ask me *off list*. 

 If there's interest, I'll make the survey results available. 

 Thanks! 

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[Haskell-cafe] Linux users needed for OpenGL extensions survey

2013-07-07 Thread Brian Lewis
Hi, I'm doing a survey to find out how well various OpenGL extensions
are supported, to know where to focus efforts on Haskell game software.

If you run Linux on your desktop and want to help, here's how:

1.) Save the information like this:
$ glxinfo  SOMENAME.glxinfo
... where SOMENAME is your name, or nickname, or the computer's
name, whatever you like.
If you don't have glxinfo, you might need to install mesa-utils on
Ubuntu, or mesa-demos on Arch.

2.) Ensure the file contains information about OpenGL extensions
supported by your graphics card.

3.) Attach it to me *off list*.

If you have questions, please ask me *off list*.

If there's interest, I'll make the survey results available.

Thanks!

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-30 Thread Ketil Malde

Jason Dagit:

 The reason I started telling everyone to avoid GHC in apt was the way
 it was packaged. [..]
 If they are lucky they figure out which apt package to install. 

I think people who are too lazy to bother to find out how their
distribution works, should avoid any distribution.

  % apt-cache search foo
  % sudo apt-get install libghc6-foo\*

Erik de Castro Lopo mle...@mega-nerd.com writes:

 Debian doesn't have 'The Haskell Platform', it has a package named
 haskell-platform

Ubuntu (10.4) doesn't seem to?  Is this an omission?

-k
-- 
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-30 Thread Ivan Lazar Miljenovic
Ketil Malde ke...@malde.org writes:
 I think people who are too lazy to bother to find out how their
 distribution works, should avoid any distribution.

   % apt-cache search foo
   % sudo apt-get install libghc6-foo\*

Agreed (to the extent that someone who can't be bothered figuring out an
advanced distribution like Gentoo or LFS should try a simpler one
first like Ubuntu before completely giving up).

 Erik de Castro Lopo mle...@mega-nerd.com writes:

 Debian doesn't have 'The Haskell Platform', it has a package named
 haskell-platform

 Ubuntu (10.4) doesn't seem to?  Is this an omission?

Hasn't been ported yet IIRC.

-- 
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-30 Thread Marco Túlio Gontijo e Silva
Hi Ivan.

Excerpts from Ivan Miljenovic's message of Ter Mar 30 00:01:19 -0300 2010:
 On 30 March 2010 13:55, Jason Dagit da...@codersbase.com wrote:
(...)
  [..] now trying to profile something, oh wait, some problem again.
 
 Agreed, if Debian didn't include the profiling libraries with GHC
 (though is this due to how Debian does packages?).

The profiling libraries included in ghc6 are available in the ghc6-prof
package.

Greetings.
(...)
-- 
marcot
http://wiki.debian.org/MarcoSilva
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[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-30 Thread Joachim Breitner
Hi Jason and other,

thanks for the suggestions, the Debian Haskell Team is eager to learn
why people do or don’t use the packaged libraries.

Am Dienstag, den 30.03.2010, 14:01 +1100 schrieb Ivan Miljenovic:
 On 30 March 2010 13:55, Jason Dagit da...@codersbase.com wrote:
  [..] now trying to profile something, oh wait, some problem again.
 
 Agreed, if Debian didn't include the profiling libraries with GHC
 (though is this due to how Debian does packages?).

The profiling data is put in -prof packages, i.e. ghc-prof,
libghc6-network-prof etc. Indeed, there is no easy way to tell the
package system: Whenever I install a Haskell -dev package, please
install the -prof package as well.

It has been proposed to just drop the -prof packages and include it in
the -dev package, as disk space is cheap. But ghc6-prof does weigh 
254M, and not everybody who wants to modify his xmonad config wants to
install that.

 Unless it still doesn't provide profiling libraries, the extralibs
 problem is no more.  There is, however, the Haskell Platform (which
 Debian seems to have almost had complete support for until the new one
 came out; now they've got to start again... _ ).

No big deal this time, only minor version bumps and then rebuilding all
depending libraries. Maybe we will do this with ghc6-6.12.2, maybe
before.

Greetings,
Joachim

-- 
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Debian Developer
  nome...@debian.org | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Keyid: 4743206C
  JID: nome...@joachim-breitner.de | http://people.debian.org/~nomeata


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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-30 Thread Ketil Malde
Joachim Breitner nome...@debian.org writes:

 The profiling data is put in -prof packages, i.e. ghc-prof,
 libghc6-network-prof etc. Indeed, there is no easy way to tell the
 package system: Whenever I install a Haskell -dev package, please
 install the -prof package as well.

One option might to add a fourth package: a virtual package that includes
all the others.  (E.g. a libghc6-network that would pull
libghc6-network-dev, -prof and -doc.)  I generally just add a wildcard
(apt-get install libghc6-network-\*), though, which isn't a lot harder.

-k
-- 
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-29 Thread Jason Dagit
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 4:53 AM, Joachim Breitner nome...@debian.orgwrote:

 Hi,

 Am Sonntag, den 28.03.2010, 09:04 +0100 schrieb Magnus Therning:
  I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together
  somewhat when it comes to Haskel development.  Many of the reasons for
  my deserting Debian seem have been taken care of.

 so, what is missing for you to come back :-)


The reason I started telling everyone to avoid GHC in apt was the way it was
packaged.  Casual Haskell users would install GHC but get something like
1/10th of the libraries GHC installs when you do a source install and none
of the profiled libraries.  Everything seems fine and working.  A few days
later, this casual user tries to build something and cannot find the
libraries they need.  Usually they would struggle to find them and when when
they did find out where to get them the answer was often, It should have
come with ghc.  They're baffled.  If they are lucky they figure out which
apt package to install.  Now fast forward a few weeks.  This casual user is
now trying to profile something, oh wait, some problem again.  If it had
been an install from the ghc source then only additional packages on hackage
would need to be hunted down and installed.

Basically, it was a monumental headache for casual users to hunt down the
full package list to reconstruct what you'd get from the source install.
 So, at some point, I just started telling all my friends to avoid the ghc
in apt and go straight for the tarballs from GHC HQ.  This advice seemed to
save a lot of head scratching later.

To me, until there is one obvious package to install to get the same set of
files as a normal ghc install I will continue to discourage people from
getting ghc from apt :)  I've heard virtual packages could be used to fix
the problem.  That would be nice as long as the virtual package is easy to
find and the name tips people off that it's the GHC they really want.

I hope you find my feedback useful :)

Jason
PS It's been several years since I checked on GHC in debian, maybe my
concerns have already been addressed.
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-29 Thread Ivan Miljenovic
On 30 March 2010 13:55, Jason Dagit da...@codersbase.com wrote:
 The reason I started telling everyone to avoid GHC in apt was the way it was
 packaged.  Casual Haskell users would install GHC but get something like
 1/10th of the libraries GHC installs when you do a source install

Is  that because Debian didn't bundle the extralibs with GHC?  If so,
then that's a fallacy that people thought those libraries came with
GHC (so much so that with 6.10.4 a lot of people were complaining that
GHC no longer shipped with network, when technically it never did).

 [..] they would struggle to find them and when when
 they did find out where to get them the answer was often, It should have
 come with ghc.

No, they shouldn't have.  These libraries should be packaged
individually, especially since Hackage started being used a lot.

 [..] now trying to profile something, oh wait, some problem again.

Agreed, if Debian didn't include the profiling libraries with GHC
(though is this due to how Debian does packages?).

  If it had been an install from the ghc source

As in a custom compile from source?  In that case there would
definitely not have been any extralibs unless you explicitly added
them.

 To me, until there is one obvious package to install to get the same set of
 files as a normal ghc install I will continue to discourage people from
 getting ghc from apt :)

Unless it still doesn't provide profiling libraries, the extralibs
problem is no more.  There is, however, the Haskell Platform (which
Debian seems to have almost had complete support for until the new one
came out; now they've got to start again... _ ).

-- 
Ivan Lazar Miljenovic
ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com
IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-29 Thread Erik de Castro Lopo
Ivan Miljenovic wrote:

  [..] now trying to profile something, oh wait, some problem again.
 
 Agreed, if Debian didn't include the profiling libraries with GHC
 (though is this due to how Debian does packages?).

The haskell packages for Debian (I am one) have decided to stick to
a pattern where if an upstream Haskell library is called 'foo' then:

  - The source code package will be called haskell-foo.
  - The library will be called libghc6-foo-dev.
  - The profiling version will be called libghc6-foo-prof
  - The documentation will be called libghc6-foo-doc.

There might still be a small number of packages doing a variation
on the above (especially for the source and doc packages).

  To me, until there is one obvious package to install to get the same set of
  files as a normal ghc install I will continue to discourage people from
  getting ghc from apt :)
 
 Unless it still doesn't provide profiling libraries, the extralibs
 problem is no more.  There is, however, the Haskell Platform (which
 Debian seems to have almost had complete support for until the new one
 came out; now they've got to start again... _ ).

Actually not quite correct.

Debian does not strictly follow the Haskell Platform, mainly because
some libraries in Debian were already at a later version when the first
platform was released.

The current situation can be seen here:

http://wiki.debian.org/Haskell/Platform

However, installing the Debian haskell-platform package should get close
enough to the official Haskell Platform for most users not to notice.

Erik
-- 
--
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http://www.mega-nerd.com/
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-29 Thread Ivan Miljenovic
On 30 March 2010 14:33, Erik de Castro Lopo mle...@mega-nerd.com wrote:
 The haskell packages for Debian (I am one)

You are a Haskell _package_? :p

  - The source code package will be called haskell-foo.

Is this an actual installable package (so you're installing the actual
source code?) ?

 Debian does not strictly follow the Haskell Platform, mainly because
 some libraries in Debian were already at a later version when the first
 platform was released.

Hence the almost complete: you can't say to have Platform support
unless you have all of those exact packages.

(Whilst Gentoo has meta-ebuilds for the platform, they're not exactly
encouraged: we're going to be using them more as a basis of future
stabilisation efforts rather than as something users should install.
Note also that at least since I've been using it, Gentoo hasn't used
extralibs and has installed made those libraries available
separately.)

-- 
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ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com
IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-29 Thread Erik de Castro Lopo
Ivan Miljenovic wrote:

 On 30 March 2010 14:33, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
  The haskell packages for Debian (I am one)
 
 You are a Haskell _package_? :p

s/packages/packagers/

Although I speak for me, not the group.

   - The source code package will be called haskell-foo.
 
 Is this an actual installable package (so you're installing the actual
 source code?) ?

The command:

   apt-get source haskell-foo

will grab the haskell-foo source package bundle which includes the
original source tarball, a diff.gz that gets applied to that tarball
to make it into a debian package and a crypto signed file with md5
and sha1 signatures of the previous two files. It will then check the
signatures and if they are ok, extract the original tarball and apply
the diff.

  Debian does not strictly follow the Haskell Platform, mainly because
  some libraries in Debian were already at a later version when the first
  platform was released.
 
 Hence the almost complete: you can't say to have Platform support
 unless you have all of those exact packages.

Debian doesn't have 'The Haskell Platform', it has a package named
haskell-platform which conforms as closely as is reasonably possible
to the former. For instance, if the Platform specifies Foo-1.0 and
that has a security vulnerability but Foo-1.1 doesn't, then Debian
is highly likely to ship Foo-1.1 instead.

Erik
-- 
--
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http://www.mega-nerd.com/
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Ketil Malde
Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com writes:

 I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and
 would would normally just go with Debian

I think Debian (I use Ubuntu, which inherits its packages) just got
a lot better.  I upgraded to 10.4 Lucid, and now I have ghc 6.12.1 and a
lot of libraries from the distribution.

My main reason for using Ubuntu is that it does relatively frequent and
stable releases, good sized package repository, and a large user base.
This way, there are a zillion other users with the exact same set of
packages, and any problem you encounter is very likely to have been
encountered (and solved) by somebody else already.  

-k
-- 
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Jason Dagit
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote:

 Hi,



 I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and
 would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course
 Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame.



 Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any
 particular distribution?


If security is important, you might want SELinux.  I know Fedora does
SELinux rather well, but I haven't used it with any other distribution.

Jaso
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[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Gour
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:13:04 -0500
 Jeff == Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com wrote:

Jeff A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot
Jeff of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth
Jeff looking into.

+1 for Arch.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: F96FF5F6



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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Lakshmi Narasimhan
My choice is latest packages available throug package manager and I use
Fedora 12 as of now. Fedora 13 is coming out with ghc 6.12

By the way did you find out any packaged rpms for ghc on Centos? I remember
a thread from haskell beginners on this where somebody was trying to get
ghc installed on Centos  and was doing it from sources.

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Gour g...@gour-nitai.com wrote:

 On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:13:04 -0500
  Jeff == Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com wrote:

 Jeff A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot
 Jeff of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth
 Jeff looking into.

 +1 for Arch.


 Sincerely,
 Gour

 --

 Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: F96FF5F6
 

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-- 
Regards
Lakshmi Narasimhan T V
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Magnus Therning
On 28/03/10 08:50, Gour wrote:
 On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:13:04 -0500
 Jeff == Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com wrote:
 
 Jeff A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot
 Jeff of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth
 Jeff looking into.
 
 +1 for Arch.

Add one more for Arch.

I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together somewhat when
it comes to Haskel development.  Many of the reasons for my deserting Debian
seem have been taken care of.

/M

-- 
Magnus Therning(OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4)
magnus@therning.org  Jabber: magnus@therning.org
http://therning.org/magnus identi.ca|twitter: magthe



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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Mathijs Kwik
As a developer in 3 languages (ruby  java professionally, haskell as
hobby) I must say I really prefer just managing this manually,
separate from the package manager.

I'm running ubuntu LTS (8.04) on production servers.
I don't want to upgrade a server OS every 6 months, so I really like
the more conservative LTS approach that ubuntu took.
But this would mean that an environment for a language would also be
somewhat frozen for at least 2 years, which isn't very useful. When
10.04 gets out with ghc 6.12.1, it will still mean that's the only
thing available until 2012, or I need to upgrade the entire OS every 6
months.

Developers prefer newer versions of ubuntu on their machines, or
another distro (or use a mac).
To get stuff working the same on all machines, it's really just the
easiest just to use manual installation.

I just keep stuff in /opt
/opt/ghc-6.10.4
/opt/ghc-6.12.1
/opt/java6
/opt/jruby-1.4
/opt/ruby-1.9
/opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.6
/opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.7

This has a lot of advantages:
- I don't have to wait for certain updated packages (for libs or
compiler / interpreter stuff).
- I can keep multiple versions of a language around and just switch by
changing PATH (for which I have aliases/helpers).
This opens up possibilities to keep legacy code running (I mean
upgrading to ubuntu 10.04 will mean breaking any apps that aren't
fully 6.12 compatible yet), and allows somewhat more experimental
projects to use latests-and-greatest (or even beta) versions of an
environment.

- no problems mixing package-manager installed libs with manually
installed stuff
I saw this has improved a bit for ruby/haskell quite a bit, now
allowing installation of manually installed libs to a user home-dir.
But I prefer not splitting my packages over multiple locations, so
just keeping them in 1 place manually.

This means that (when building/installing stuff) I have to install
some packages like gcc/binutils and some -dev (header) packages when I
need to bind to native code (I can uninstall them afterwards).

For getting an environment uprunning I just have some bash-scripts
which install needed (package-manager) packages, download the sources
I need and install stuff to /opt, and clean up afterwards.
It's easy to keep those scripts portable between
distributions/versions/architectures.
This way, developers can run any distro they like, and I can keep
using the more conservative LTS release on production.


For production machines (that all have same OS and architecture) I
build everything on 1 machine and have others just sync the /opt stuff
if needed.

This might not be a solution for you, it really depends on your needs,
but for me, I found it's often useful to control the exact environment
an application needs and it gives developers the freedom to run
whatever OS they like, which is a huge benefit if you use contractors
or if devs want to work from home.




On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote:
 Hi,



 I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and
 would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course
 Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame.



 Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any
 particular distribution?



 Chris



 ---

 Chris Dornan

 email : ch...@chrisdornan.com

 tel   : +1 (847) 691 7945



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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Joachim Breitner
Hi,

Am Sonntag, den 28.03.2010, 09:04 +0100 schrieb Magnus Therning:
 I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together
 somewhat when it comes to Haskel development.  Many of the reasons for
 my deserting Debian seem have been taken care of.

so, what is missing for you to come back :-)

Greetings,
Joachim
(with his Debian-Haskell-Group member hat on)
-- 
Joachim nomeata Breitner
Debian Developer
  nome...@debian.org | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Keyid: 4743206C
  JID: nome...@joachim-breitner.de | http://people.debian.org/~nomeata


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RE: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Chris Dornan
Thanks everyone,

Your observations have been most valuable but Mathijs' advice was excellent.

You may well want to pick a distribution that supports Haskell in choosing a 
distribution for general work but for a serious project you in effect build 
your own Haskell distribution and choose the Linux distribution that matches 
the destination ecosystem--in my case CentOS. This has nothing at all to do 
with my own preferences but the fact that CentOS is already being used in the 
target system (comprising multiple Linux systems).

Thanks again,

Chris

-Original Message-
From: haskell-cafe-boun...@haskell.org 
[mailto:haskell-cafe-boun...@haskell.org] On Behalf Of Mathijs Kwik
Sent: 28 March 2010 5:13 AM
To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org
Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

As a developer in 3 languages (ruby  java professionally, haskell as
hobby) I must say I really prefer just managing this manually, separate from 
the package manager.

I'm running ubuntu LTS (8.04) on production servers.
I don't want to upgrade a server OS every 6 months, so I really like the more 
conservative LTS approach that ubuntu took.
But this would mean that an environment for a language would also be somewhat 
frozen for at least 2 years, which isn't very useful. When
10.04 gets out with ghc 6.12.1, it will still mean that's the only thing 
available until 2012, or I need to upgrade the entire OS every 6 months.

Developers prefer newer versions of ubuntu on their machines, or another distro 
(or use a mac).
To get stuff working the same on all machines, it's really just the easiest 
just to use manual installation.

I just keep stuff in /opt
/opt/ghc-6.10.4
/opt/ghc-6.12.1
/opt/java6
/opt/jruby-1.4
/opt/ruby-1.9
/opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.6
/opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.7

This has a lot of advantages:
- I don't have to wait for certain updated packages (for libs or compiler / 
interpreter stuff).
- I can keep multiple versions of a language around and just switch by changing 
PATH (for which I have aliases/helpers).
This opens up possibilities to keep legacy code running (I mean upgrading to 
ubuntu 10.04 will mean breaking any apps that aren't fully 6.12 compatible 
yet), and allows somewhat more experimental
projects to use latests-and-greatest (or even beta) versions of an environment.

- no problems mixing package-manager installed libs with manually installed 
stuff I saw this has improved a bit for ruby/haskell quite a bit, now allowing 
installation of manually installed libs to a user home-dir.
But I prefer not splitting my packages over multiple locations, so just keeping 
them in 1 place manually.

This means that (when building/installing stuff) I have to install some 
packages like gcc/binutils and some -dev (header) packages when I need to bind 
to native code (I can uninstall them afterwards).

For getting an environment uprunning I just have some bash-scripts which 
install needed (package-manager) packages, download the sources I need and 
install stuff to /opt, and clean up afterwards.
It's easy to keep those scripts portable between 
distributions/versions/architectures.
This way, developers can run any distro they like, and I can keep using the 
more conservative LTS release on production.


For production machines (that all have same OS and architecture) I build 
everything on 1 machine and have others just sync the /opt stuff if needed.

This might not be a solution for you, it really depends on your needs, but for 
me, I found it's often useful to control the exact environment an application 
needs and it gives developers the freedom to run whatever OS they like, which 
is a huge benefit if you use contractors or if devs want to work from home.




On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote:
 Hi,



 I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project 
 and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and 
 of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame.



 Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding 
 any particular distribution?



 Chris



 ---

 Chris Dornan

 email : ch...@chrisdornan.com

 tel   : +1 (847) 691 7945



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[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Ertugrul Soeylemez
Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote:

 I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project
 and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and
 of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame.

 Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding
 any particular distribution?

I can only speak for Gentoo, not for the others, and as a Haskell
developer I am very happy with it.  It has the Haskell Platform as well
as lots of independent packages in the mainstream repository.  Also it
has a very flexible package management system called Portage.

Using the 'haskell' Portage overlay, you get many non-mainstream Haskell
packages managed within Portage without having to use cabal-install.  In
fact, because of this I haven't even known about cabal-install for a
long time.

However, as always there is a catch.  Gentoo is a source distribution,
which means that you compile the entire system from scratch.  On modern
computers this is quite fast, but sometimes it can hammer on your
patience.  Also it happens that you get compilation errors, in which
case you need to resolve the issue (most are easy to solve though).


Greets,
Ertugrul


-- 
nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife = sex)
http://blog.ertes.de/


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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Magnus Therning
On 28/03/10 12:53, Joachim Breitner wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Am Sonntag, den 28.03.2010, 09:04 +0100 schrieb Magnus Therning:
 I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together
 somewhat when it comes to Haskel development.  Many of the reasons for
 my deserting Debian seem have been taken care of.
 
 so, what is missing for you to come back :-)

Well, maybe I should qualify that a bit.  There were a few issues with Haskell
in Debian in the past.  Most noticeably the lack of packages in the standard
repos.  This seems to have been addressed.  The other thing, that bit me at
the time, and witch really pushed me over the edge was the lack of speed in
adopting new upstream versions of ghc and some of the very basic packages.

That Debian has started picking up more packages is noticeable in Hackage.
However, an increase in speed wouldn't really be noticeable to a non-Debian
user.  So you might have improved considerably in that area too... I just
wouldn't know :-)

/M

-- 
Magnus Therning(OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4)
magnus@therning.org  Jabber: magnus@therning.org
http://therning.org/magnus identi.ca|twitter: magthe



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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Erik de Castro Lopo
Magnus Therning wrote:

 Well, maybe I should qualify that a bit.  There were a few issues with Haskell
 in Debian in the past.  Most noticeably the lack of packages in the standard
 repos.  This seems to have been addressed.  The other thing, that bit me at
 the time, and witch really pushed me over the edge was the lack of speed in
 adopting new upstream versions of ghc and some of the very basic packages.
 
 That Debian has started picking up more packages is noticeable in Hackage.
 However, an increase in speed wouldn't really be noticeable to a non-Debian
 user.  So you might have improved considerably in that area too... I just
 wouldn't know :-)

Above all else, what has changed in Debian wrt Haskell is improved
process. Improved process is something that makes handle of new 
upstream releases far easier than it was before and hence, we
should be seeing the benefits of this improved process for many
years to come.

Erik
-- 
--
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http://www.mega-nerd.com/
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Jason Dusek
2010/03/28 Ertugrul Soeylemez e...@ertes.de
 However, as always there is a catch.  Gentoo is a source distribution,
 which means that you compile the entire system from scratch.  On modern
 computers this is quite fast, but sometimes it can hammer on your
 patience.

  To be fair, Gentoo has a well thought out system for bundling up
  an installed build and creating a binary package for installation
  on other nodes.

--
Jason Dusek
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-28 Thread Erik de Castro Lopo
Mathijs Kwik wrote:

 As a developer in 3 languages (ruby  java professionally, haskell as
 hobby) I must say I really prefer just managing this manually,
 separate from the package manager.
 
 I'm running ubuntu LTS (8.04) on production servers.

 But this would mean that an environment for a language would also be
 somewhat frozen for at least 2 years, which isn't very useful. When
 10.04 gets out with ghc 6.12.1, it will still mean that's the only
 thing available until 2012, or I need to upgrade the entire OS every 6
 months.

Not necessarily.

I am faced with a similar problem, having over 700 production
client machines (administered remotely) in the field running
the 8.04 LTS release.

Because we use Debian packaging as the only sane way to manage
binary distribution to that number of machines, we manage our
own repository which is basically a validated version of 8.04,
plus validated backports, plus our own packages.

Furthermore, all of our own packages are built on an autobuilder
to ensure that what is in revision control will actually build
from source. The autobuilders all start off with a nearly bare
install in a chroot, then install the build dependencies and
finally build the package.

In order for this to work for our one haskell package, I backported
ghc-6.10.4 and a bunch of haskell libraries from Debian Testing so
that this one package can be built in the autobuilder.

I have also been hearing rumours that the next LTS release 10.04
will be more of a rolling release, where more recent versions of
things will be available by enabling backports.

snip

 This might not be a solution for you, it really depends on your needs,
 but for me, I found it's often useful to control the exact environment
 an application needs and it gives developers the freedom to run
 whatever OS they like, which is a huge benefit if you use contractors
 or if devs want to work from home.

I think I found a solution with the same goals as your's, but with
a different implementation. Since your machine count is smaller than
mine, your scheme probably works better for your situation. For my
larger machine count, I would not be happy to trade my scheme for
yours :-).

Cheers,
Erik
-- 
--
Erik de Castro Lopo
http://www.mega-nerd.com/
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[Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-27 Thread Chris Dornan
Hi,

 

I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and
would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course
Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame.

 

Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any
particular distribution?

 

Chris

 

---

Chris Dornan

email : ch...@chrisdornan.com

tel   : +1 (847) 691 7945

 

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-27 Thread Jeff Wheeler
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote:

 Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any
 particular distribution?

A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot of
links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth looking into.

-- 
Jeff Wheeler

Undergraduate, Electrical Engineering
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution

2010-03-27 Thread Ivan Lazar Miljenovic
Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com writes:
 On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote:
 Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any
 particular distribution?
 A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot of
 links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth looking into.

We may not have as many packages as Arch (because we don't just churn
them willy-nilly) but Gentoo has a fair number of up-to-date Haskell
packages in its overlay.

-- 
Ivan Lazar Miljenovic
ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com
IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com
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Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Linux ghci vs Windows ghci

2010-02-24 Thread Bulat Ziganshin
Hello Brandon,

Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:08:41 AM, you wrote:

 I feel that ghci code executing speed in guest os is 1.5~2x faster
 than host os

 My guess is that GHC (and the GHC RTS) on win32 is using a POSIX  
 emulation layer supplied by mingw32 for all system calls, introducing
 extra overhead.

1. yes, mingw is using POSIX emulation layer for file operations, but
i don't believe that it provides any serious overhead - even for i/o

2. this example was purely computational, no OS calls involved




-- 
Best regards,
 Bulatmailto:bulat.zigans...@gmail.com

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux ghci vs Windows ghci

2010-02-23 Thread Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH

On Feb 21, 2010, at 06:27 , Donghee Nah wrote:
I'm using Windows 7 32bit Host OS(ghc 6.8.3) and Virtualbox  
Archlinux Guest OS(ghc 6.8.4)
I feel that ghci code executing speed in guest os is 1.5~2x faster  
than host os


My guess is that GHC (and the GHC RTS) on win32 is using a POSIX  
emulation layer supplied by mingw32 for all system calls, introducing  
extra overhead.  Unfortunately, I don't think we have enough Windows- 
familiar folks with enough understanding of the GHC RTS to optimize it  
for the native Windows API.


--
brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] allb...@kf8nh.com
system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allb...@ece.cmu.edu
electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon universityKF8NH




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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux ghci vs Windows ghci

2010-02-22 Thread Joachim Breitner
Hi,

Am Sonntag, den 21.02.2010, 13:58 +0100 schrieb Ketil Malde:
 Donghee Nah ppk...@gmail.com writes:
  I feel that ghci code executing speed in guest os is 1.5~2x faster than host
  os
 
  The code:
  let t n = do {if n `mod` 10 == 0 then print n else return ()}  t (n+1)
  t 1
 
  any clue?
 
 Speed of the terminal?  Cost of syscalls (user/kernel transitions)?

also note that I observed similar things with Win32 code vs. Linux code
when compiling stuff unoptimized. See

http://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/archives/358-Building-arbtt-for-Windows.html

the first three paragraphs.

But I don’t know why that is.

Greetings,
Joachim

-- 
Joachim nomeata Breitner
  mail: m...@joachim-breitner.de | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Key: 4743206C
  JID: nome...@joachim-breitner.de | http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
  Debian Developer: nome...@debian.org


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[Haskell-cafe] Linux ghci vs Windows ghci

2010-02-21 Thread Donghee Nah
I'm using Windows 7 32bit Host OS(ghc 6.8.3) and Virtualbox Archlinux Guest
OS(ghc 6.8.4)

I feel that ghci code executing speed in guest os is 1.5~2x faster than host
os

The code:
let t n = do {if n `mod` 10 == 0 then print n else return ()}  t (n+1)
t 1

any clue?
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux ghci vs Windows ghci

2010-02-21 Thread Ketil Malde
Donghee Nah ppk...@gmail.com writes:

 I feel that ghci code executing speed in guest os is 1.5~2x faster than host
 os

 The code:
 let t n = do {if n `mod` 10 == 0 then print n else return ()}  t (n+1)
 t 1

 any clue?

Speed of the terminal?  Cost of syscalls (user/kernel transitions)?

-k
-- 
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems

2008-10-18 Thread Colin Fleming
Hi Leif,

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately this no longer works, the process
is repeatedly killed for using too much memory on make install. I also had
to manually install readline 4 since it's absurdly hard to open an RPM (or
at least the compat one they have there).

All up, this is just too hard for the amount of spare time I have at the
moment.

Cheers,
Colin

2008/10/14 Leif Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I had the same problem with the 6.8.3 install on Dreamhost, unable to
 determine current path or something.
 Ended up using 6.8.2 install, and had to crack open the rpm of the old
 readline version they linked, put it in $HOME/lib, and set $LD_RUN_PATH to
 point to that.
 http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/6.8.2/ghc-6.8.2-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2

 And there is actually an Eclipse plugin for Haskell:
 http://eclipsefp.sourceforge.net/
 Not that I break it out for work.
 -Leif Warner

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[Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems

2008-10-14 Thread Leif Warner
I had the same problem with the 6.8.3 install on Dreamhost, unable to
determine current path or something.
Ended up using 6.8.2 install, and had to crack open the rpm of the old
readline version they linked, put it in $HOME/lib, and set $LD_RUN_PATH to
point to that.
http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/6.8.2/ghc-6.8.2-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2

And there is actually an Eclipse plugin for Haskell:
http://eclipsefp.sourceforge.net/
Not that I break it out for work.
-Leif Warner
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems

2008-10-07 Thread Colin Fleming
Ok, I tried nix but I couldn't get it to work. Initially I had a problem
since I was trying to get nix to install in my home directory and on the
host (Dreamhost) that's actually a symlink, which nix doesn't allow. Then
once I got it installed finally it didn't build - I can't remember the
details exactly. I then tried to generate hc files for 6.6.1 to install that
to bootstrap from, but I couldn't get ghc to build those on my machine -
looking around it seems to have a lot of problems building on Leopard. My
last resort is now to install Ubuntu in VMWare, install ghc, then generate
the hc files on that, get those on my host, bootstrap from that, and then
build 6.8.3 from source.

As an aside, is there any reason the tar of the hc files isn't available for
download for versions that support it? It would make this a lot easier.

Cheers,
Colin
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems

2008-10-06 Thread Colin Fleming
Hi Chris,

Unfortunately that's not easy for me, I don't know exactly what the config
of the server is, and I use OSX at home. I could probably rig something up
using VMWare but that's a lot of work just to install the compiler. Another
option might be to create an unregisterised build, as detailed in the
porting guide, then use that to bootstrap a proper build. See:

http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Porting

Cheers,
Colin
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems

2008-10-06 Thread Colin Fleming
Hi Marc,

Great, thanks for the pointer. I'll take a look at nix, that might be an
option. Thanks for the offer of server space too, but I'd really like to get
it going on my own space since I have domains and whatnot pointed there.

I also realise that the IDE support isn't there - it's even worse, I use
IntelliJ rather than Eclipse which is positively magical at times. Something
similar for a language like Haskell would be amazing.

Thanks for the advice!

Cheers,
Colin

2008/10/6 Marc Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Hi Colin,

 I only know about one other option:
 Try user mode linux / qemu / anotehr virtualziing software and setup the
 environment within that which you need... :-(
 Another thing you could try is installing nix (nixos.org) (software
 distirbution
 system).. It bootstraps current ghc via ghc-6.4.2 from binaries / source
 automatically (Don't think older compilers are supported than 6.4.x) but
 you'll get a complete copy of each system lib within the store
 direcotry. So you need some disk space.  And I can't guarantee that it
 works out of the box..  (it works with 2.6.9 kernel.. don't know about
 older ones)

 If all you want to do is toying around I can give you an ssh account to
 my server which has ghc installed.
 Anyway be prepared that there is no IDE support coming close to what
 Eclipse provides for the Java language..

 Sincerly
 Marc
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[Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems

2008-10-05 Thread Colin Fleming
Hi all,

I just joined this list, I'm interested in learning Haskell to complement my
day job language (Java). I was interested in trying to make a simple website
using Haskell in order to have something to practise on, however in my
host's shared environment I can't use the Linux binary packages - I get the
same errors that a few people were talking about in September - firstly the
cannot determine current directory, and then after hacking the configure
script the [install] Error 136. It seems that this is probably an old
libc, but this is an environment that I have almost no control over so I
can't fix that. Are there any building from source options if I don't
already have GHC? It looks from the porting guide that I might be able to
make 6.6.2 with just a C compiler, can I then use that to build 6.8.3?

Thanks for any help. As a few people have commented, it would be great to
make all this easier, as it's a pretty big stumbling block to starting with
Haskell, and people are likely to get discouraged pretty quickly.

Cheers,
Colin
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux binary dist problems

2008-10-05 Thread Chris Mears
Colin Fleming [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 It looks from the porting guide that I might be able to make 6.6.2
 with just a C compiler, can I then use that to build 6.8.3?

I have the same problem as you -- a hosting environment with an old libc
-- and had the same problem with the binary distribution.  I think you
can do what you have suggested, but I haven't tried.  Instead I have
decided to build a static binary on a local computer and then put that
binary onto the host; maybe this is a solution for you too.
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[Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.

2008-09-04 Thread Alan Mackenzie
Hi, Haskell!

I've downloaded the ghc-6.8.3-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 tarball, which
I expected to work on my GNU/Linux box (1.2 GHz Athlon, Debian Sarge).

I'm new at this game, though I'm thoroughly experienced with (and bear
deep battle scars from) GNU software in general.

./configure fails with checking for path to top of build tree...
configure: error: cannot determine current directory.  This has been
reported before in this list, but I don't think anybody ever explained
the fault.

Further delving finds that the following statement in the configure
script triggers it:

hardtop=`utils/pwd/pwd forwardslash`

.  utils/pwd/pwd, no matter how I call it, always crashes with Floating
point exception.  Surely real numbers aren't involved in determining a
configuration - probably some floating point library or other is
missing from my system.

What is utils/pwd/pwd?  What's its purpose?  It's 460kB large (compared
with 14kb for /bin/pwd).  Is it a haskell implementation of Unix's pwd,
primarily intented for non-unixy OSs?

configure is supposed to ascertain my machine's config, so it's
particularly disappointing that it crashes because my config isn't what
it expects.  Should I report this as a bug?

#

Anyhow, I hacked the configure script by replacing the above line by a
hard-coded value, thusly:

hardtop=/home/acm/haskell/ghc-6.8.3

, and the configure script finished.  ;-)

So I did make install, and the turgid messages rolled up my screen
until it crashed, the last few lines being:

nstall/lib/ghc-6.8.3' 
-DPKG_DATADIR='/home/acm/haskell/ghc-install/share/ghc-6.8.3' package.conf.in 
\
| grep -v '^#pragma GCC' \
| sed -e 's///g' -e 's/:[   ]*,/: /g' \
| /home/acm/haskell/ghc-6.8.3/utils/ghc-pkg/ghc-pkg.bin --global-conf 
/home/acm/haskell/ghc-install/lib/ghc-6.8.3/package.conf update - --force
make[1]: *** [install] Error 136
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/acm/haskell/ghc-6.8.3/rts'
make: *** [install] Error 2

Ah yes!  Error 136.  ;-)  Don't we just love GNU bread and butter
software?  It's not documented on the install man page either - or the
info page.  Neither is Error 8.

Hey, you've all been through this too: enthusiasm - 0 as t - infinity.
:-(

#

So, I thought, who needs to install?  It's a binary package, so somewhere
there's going to be a top-level callable program, probably called
something like ghc.  Hey, yes, compile/Stage3/ghc-6.8.3.  Guess what:
Floating point exception.  :-(

I hate binary packages - I utterly loathe them.  They never work.  At
least they never work for me.  Or the distro package manager stuffs your
cron config with resource hoggers you really don't want, and forgets to
ask you first.  I suppose they might work if your OS has been installed
or updated within the last few months; otherwise, forget it.  Source
distributions are so much faster and easier to install because the
cranial clutter you have to cope with is that much less.

Trouble is, to build haskell from source, you need a working haskell to
build it with.  Presumably, sometime in the recent past (as measured on
archaeological time scales), ghc was bootstrapped from C (or some other
lowest common denomiator language).  Is this route still available?  Some
proto-proto haskell written in C, sufficiently powerful to build a
proto-haskell, sufficiently powerful to build the compiler?

#

I'd really love to play with haskell.  But the time I've wasted so far,
trying to get it working, is almost at the stage where I just can't be
bothered any more.  I've been here before, and I can see that I've got 1
- 3 days x 8 hours of grinding drudgery before I finally get ghc-6.8.3
working.  I suppose that's just the way GNU systems are.

If anybody could give me some tips as to getting a decent haskell running
on my system in a reasonable, predictable amount of time, in a way which
doesn't involve diagnosing and fixing problems, I'd be very grateful
indeed.

Thanks!

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.

2008-09-04 Thread Johannes Waldmann

Hi, Alan -


./configure fails with checking for path to top of build tree...
configure: error: cannot determine current directory. 


Yeah, I got the exact same error yesterday when trying to install
a ghc-6.8.3 binary dist on some older machine.

Well, since I had 6.8.2 working there, I just used it to compile 6.8.3 
from sources,

which worked without any problems.

I guess the 6.8.3 binary does not work because it expects a newer
version of libc or whatever. I can provide the binaries I built if you 
need them.


Best regards, J.W.



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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.

2008-09-04 Thread Don Stewart
acm:
 Hi, Haskell!
 
 I've downloaded the ghc-6.8.3-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 tarball, which
 I expected to work on my GNU/Linux box (1.2 GHz Athlon, Debian Sarge).

Was there a problem installing GHC from the Debian package system with apt?

-- Don
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.

2008-09-04 Thread Ian Lynagh
On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 11:20:35PM +0200, Johannes Waldmann wrote:
 
 ./configure fails with checking for path to top of build tree...
 configure: error: cannot determine current directory. 
 
 I guess the 6.8.3 binary does not work because it expects a newer
 version of libc or whatever.

That's right.


Thanks
Ian

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.

2008-09-04 Thread Johannes Waldmann



Was there a problem installing GHC from the Debian package system with apt?


He said Sarge. I guess the current ghc packages are for Etch only? - J.W.



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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.

2008-09-04 Thread Alan Mackenzie
HI THERE, JOHANNES, what a surprise, how are you doing?

Remember teaching me the 7-ring 1-count?  Might've been at Erlangen,
possibly Augsburg, even Berlin, but it was quite a while ago.  :-)

On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 11:20:35PM +0200, Johannes Waldmann wrote:
 Hi, Alan -

 ./configure fails with checking for path to top of build tree...
 configure: error: cannot determine current directory. 

 Yeah, I got the exact same error yesterday when trying to install
 a ghc-6.8.3 binary dist on some older machine.

Ah, so it's not just me.

 Well, since I had 6.8.2 working there, I just used it to compile 6.8.3
 from sources, which worked without any problems.

 I guess the 6.8.3 binary does not work because it expects a newer
 version of libc or whatever. I can provide the binaries I built if you 
 need them.

Hey, thanks, yes please!  Whether by email, or you giving me an ftp
address, whatever is most convenient.  That would be most appreciated.

 Best regards, J.W.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.

2008-09-04 Thread Alan Mackenzie
Hi, Don!

On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 02:24:20PM -0700, Don Stewart wrote:
 acm:
  Hi, Haskell!

  I've downloaded the ghc-6.8.3-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 tarball,
  which I expected to work on my GNU/Linux box (1.2 GHz Athlon, Debian
  Sarge).

 Was there a problem installing GHC from the Debian package system with
 apt?

Yes, my apt setup is broken.  Because of a (now fixed) configuration
error I made, aptitude (a frontend to apt) has decided it needs to
delete ~400 packages from my system, some of them vital.  It's an
intelligent, helpful system, and maintaining consistency between
packages is of utmost importance to it, more important, by far, than
leaving my system in a working state.  I haven't found a convenient,
safe, way of resetting this deletion cache (which has been hanging
around for ~1 year).  Sadly its only go button is do everything
pending, so I've effectively blocked myself from using it.  Sorting the
mess out, or even discovering whether I could safely use apt directly,
is just too much drudgery; I'll be installing a new system sometime soon
anyway.

I hate package managers almost as much as binary packages.  There are
quite a lot of things I don't hate, though.  ;-)

That's kind of drifting off topic, though.

 -- Don

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux version of ghc-6.8.3 won't intall or run for me: Floating point exception.

2008-09-04 Thread Bryan O'Sullivan
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I've downloaded the ghc-6.8.3-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 tarball, which
 I expected to work on my GNU/Linux box (1.2 GHz Athlon, Debian Sarge).

 Was there a problem installing GHC from the Debian package system with apt?

Sarge is extremely old in Linux years, and support for it was EOLed
earlier this year. It ships with a particularly buggy version of
glibc. I would recommend upgrading.
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux kernel/library question

2008-07-22 Thread Galchin, Vasili
Thank you, Fero and Sylvain!

Vasili

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:21 PM, sylvain nahas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hi Vasili,

 Please have a look at http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html

 The main list is linux-kernel. Depending on the level of your questions,
 you may also check 
 linux-newbiehttp://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-newbie.

 If it concerns a defined subsystem/architecture, there is often a relevant
 mailing-list.

 Hope it helps and happy hacking,
 Sylvain

 2008/7/21 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hello,

 I am working on POSIX stuff. I have used Linux as my POSIX OS and have
 read source when I could find it. Does anybody in this
 group of Linux newsgroup where one can ask Linux-related
 implementation questions?

 Regards, Vasili

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[Haskell-cafe] Linux kernel/library question

2008-07-21 Thread Galchin, Vasili
Hello,
I am working on POSIX stuff. I have used Linux as my POSIX OS and have
read source when I could find it. Does anybody in this
group of Linux newsgroup where one can ask Linux-related implementation
questions?

Regards, Vasili
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux kernel/library question

2008-07-21 Thread frantisek kocun
Hi Vasili,
try one of Linux groups at http://www.nabble.com/Linux-f252.html or maybe
Linux kernel group http://www.nabble.com/linux-kernel-f49.html . But I don't
know if there are people working with Haskell in Linux as well. But if you
would like to ask something only about POSIX, I think they may help.

Fero

2008/7/21 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hello,
 I am working on POSIX stuff. I have used Linux as my POSIX OS and have
 read source when I could find it. Does anybody in this
 group of Linux newsgroup where one can ask Linux-related implementation
 questions?

 Regards, Vasili

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux kernel/library question

2008-07-21 Thread sylvain nahas
Hi Vasili,

Please have a look at http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html

The main list is linux-kernel. Depending on the level of your questions,
you may also check
linux-newbiehttp://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-newbie.

If it concerns a defined subsystem/architecture, there is often a relevant
mailing-list.

Hope it helps and happy hacking,
Sylvain

2008/7/21 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hello,
 I am working on POSIX stuff. I have used Linux as my POSIX OS and have
 read source when I could find it. Does anybody in this
 group of Linux newsgroup where one can ask Linux-related implementation
 questions?

 Regards, Vasili

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-22 Thread Keean Schupke
Actually with PCI chipsets, implementing a generic BusMaster DMA driver
is not too hard, assuming you already have interrupts handled (and you 
don't want 64bit DMA support)... You just load the parameters for the 
disk read into the PCI registers, and wait for the completed interrupt. 
I wrote a diver in assembly language for my own OS project a few years ago.

   Keean.
Iavor Diatchki wrote:
Hello,
There are no storage drivers at the moment.  Actually part of the
motivation for implementing the networking stuff was so that we can
avoid doing that at least for the time being.
-Iavor
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:32:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time), S.
Alexander Jacobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

Very very cool.
Has anyone written any storage drivers?
If there is already TCP, has someone written an iscsi (RFC3720)
driver?
-Alex-
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
   

dons:
 

alex:
   

Wow!  Did you also implement tcp in Haskell?
 

On this topic, the following House code looks relevant:
  http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Net/
There's something satsifying about seeing 'instance Functor Packet' in
IPv4.hs ;)
 

Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk?
(With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be
really cool to get rid of the L as well!)
 

Sorry! By We've got a few drivers written in Haskell, I meant
the Haskell community, not me personally :} You have the hOp and House
developers to thank for this stuff.
   

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
 

mark:
   

I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing
device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else,
it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet
experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I
had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code.
Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and
the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such
given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts?
 

Well, it would be tricky, but fun!
We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux,
as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and
drivers:
 http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/
and
 
http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/
So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that
isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway.
Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a,
much
as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves
compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9
main.c is helpful).  Something like: ;)
egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o
-L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix
-lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits
-lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp
-u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u
GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ...
Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be
good):
   hs_init(argc, argv);
 .. do something in Haskell or C land ...
   hs_exit();
Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C
app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass
values back and forward.
I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;)
Cheers,
Don
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-22 Thread Lennart Augustsson
But there are plenty of minor variations on how to program
and initiate DMA for different devices.
-- Lennart
Keean Schupke wrote:
Actually with PCI chipsets, implementing a generic BusMaster DMA driver
is not too hard, assuming you already have interrupts handled (and you 
don't want 64bit DMA support)... You just load the parameters for the 
disk read into the PCI registers, and wait for the completed interrupt. 
I wrote a diver in assembly language for my own OS project a few years ago.

   Keean.
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-22 Thread Keean Schupke
I thought the BusMaster interface was pretty uniform, unlike the earlier 
DMA interfaces which varied from chipset to chipset.

   Keean.
Lennart Augustsson wrote:
But there are plenty of minor variations on how to program
and initiate DMA for different devices.
-- Lennart
Keean Schupke wrote:
Actually with PCI chipsets, implementing a generic BusMaster DMA driver
is not too hard, assuming you already have interrupts handled (and 
you don't want 64bit DMA support)... You just load the parameters for 
the disk read into the PCI registers, and wait for the completed 
interrupt. I wrote a diver in assembly language for my own OS project 
a few years ago.

   Keean.

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-22 Thread Lennart Augustsson
What is this standard BusMaster interface you talk about?
I must have missed something.  I've yet to see two PCI chips
that do DMA the same way.
-- Lennart
Keean Schupke wrote:
I thought the BusMaster interface was pretty uniform, unlike the earlier 
DMA interfaces which varied from chipset to chipset.

   Keean.
Lennart Augustsson wrote:
But there are plenty of minor variations on how to program
and initiate DMA for different devices.
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-22 Thread Keean Schupke
Have a look at the linux kernel IDE drivers, look for
Generic IDE Chipset support
Generic PCI bus-master DMA support
   Keean.
Lennart Augustsson wrote:
What is this standard BusMaster interface you talk about?
I must have missed something.  I've yet to see two PCI chips
that do DMA the same way.
-- Lennart
Keean Schupke wrote:
I thought the BusMaster interface was pretty uniform, unlike the 
earlier DMA interfaces which varied from chipset to chipset.

   Keean.
Lennart Augustsson wrote:
But there are plenty of minor variations on how to program
and initiate DMA for different devices.
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-22 Thread Lennart Augustsson
Keean Schupke wrote:
Have a look at the linux kernel IDE drivers, look for
Generic IDE Chipset support
That's the part I missed, you were talking about IDE
chips.  Yes, they have many similarities.  You can
probably run many of them in one of the slower modes
with a common driver.  But even these chips differ
in the details.
-- Lennart
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-22 Thread Keean Schupke
The generic busmaster diver should go all the way to UDMA mode 4 (133Mb)
   Keean.
Lennart Augustsson wrote:
Keean Schupke wrote:
Have a look at the linux kernel IDE drivers, look for
Generic IDE Chipset support
That's the part I missed, you were talking about IDE
chips.  Yes, they have many similarities.  You can
probably run many of them in one of the slower modes
with a common driver.  But even these chips differ
in the details.
-- Lennart

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-22 Thread Keean Schupke
I don't think I said anything controversial. I guess I was just 
over-simplifying things by only considering PC IDE hardware - but then 
again that must get you running on 90% of the systems people are likely 
to have lying around to play with a developmental OS on.

On the other hand the average network driver seems to be about 2,000 
lines of code, whereas if you add all the parts of the generic ide 
driver together you get about 20,000 lines of code. I guess that answers 
my question - storage is an order of magnitude harder than networking, 
even before including SCSI.

   Regards,
   Keean.

Simon Marlow wrote:
Keean, you should be aware that Lennart is something of a device driver
guru.  He knows what he's talking about :-)  Go grep for Augustsson in
the NetBSD kernel sometime.
Cheers,
	Simon
 

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-22 Thread S. Alexander Jacobson
Would it be harder/easier better/worse to use Linux device drivers 
from hOp/House as opposed to writing new disk I/O stuff in Haskell?

-Alex-
__
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005, Keean Schupke wrote:
I don't think I said anything controversial. I guess I was just 
over-simplifying things by only considering PC IDE hardware - but then again 
that must get you running on 90% of the systems people are likely to have 
lying around to play with a developmental OS on.

On the other hand the average network driver seems to be about 2,000 lines of 
code, whereas if you add all the parts of the generic ide driver together you 
get about 20,000 lines of code. I guess that answers my question - storage is 
an order of magnitude harder than networking, even before including SCSI.

  Regards,
  Keean.

Simon Marlow wrote:
Keean, you should be aware that Lennart is something of a device driver
guru.  He knows what he's talking about :-)  Go grep for Augustsson in
the NetBSD kernel sometime.
Cheers,
Simon
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-21 Thread Iavor Diatchki
Hello,
There are no storage drivers at the moment.  Actually part of the
motivation for implementing the networking stuff was so that we can
avoid doing that at least for the time being.
-Iavor


On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:32:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time), S.
Alexander Jacobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Very very cool.
 Has anyone written any storage drivers?
 If there is already TCP, has someone written an iscsi (RFC3720)
 driver?
 
 -Alex-
 
 
 On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
 
  dons:
  alex:
  Wow!  Did you also implement tcp in Haskell?
 
  On this topic, the following House code looks relevant:
 http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Net/
 
  There's something satsifying about seeing 'instance Functor Packet' in
  IPv4.hs ;)
 
  Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk?
 
  (With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be
  really cool to get rid of the L as well!)
 
  Sorry! By We've got a few drivers written in Haskell, I meant
  the Haskell community, not me personally :} You have the hOp and House
  developers to thank for this stuff.
 
  On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
 
  mark:
  I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing
  device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else,
  it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet
  experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I
  had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code.
 
  Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and
  the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such
  given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts?
 
  Well, it would be tricky, but fun!
 
  We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux,
  as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and
  drivers:
http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/
  and

  http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/
 
  So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that
  isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway.
 
  Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a,
  much
  as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves
  compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc 
  -v9
  main.c is helpful).  Something like: ;)
 
  egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o
  -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix
  -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits
  -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm 
  -lgmp
  -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u
  GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ...
 
  Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be
  good):
  hs_init(argc, argv);
.. do something in Haskell or C land ...
  hs_exit();
 
  Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C
  app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass
  values back and forward.
 
  I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;)
 
  Cheers,
  Don
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[Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-20 Thread Mark Carroll
I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing
device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else,
it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet
experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I
had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code.

Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and
the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such
given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark

-- 
Haskell vacancies in Columbus, Ohio, USA: see http://www.aetion.com/jobs.html
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-20 Thread Greg Buchholz
Mark Carroll wrote:
 I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing
 device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else,
 it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet
 experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I
 had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code.
 
 Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and
 the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such
 given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts?

You might be interested in hOp:

hOp is a micro-kernel based on the RTS of GHC. It is meant to
 enable people to experiment with writing device drivers in Haskell.

http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~sebc/hOp/ 

or maybe House...

http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~hallgren/House/

Greg Buchholz

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-20 Thread Donald Bruce Stewart
mark:
 I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing
 device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else,
 it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet
 experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I
 had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code.
 
 Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and
 the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such
 given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Well, it would be tricky, but fun!

We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux,
as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and
drivers:
http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/
and

http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/

So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that
isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway.

Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, much
as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves
compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9
main.c is helpful).  Something like: ;)

egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 
-lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl 
-lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata 
-lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u 
GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ...

Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be
good):
  hs_init(argc, argv);
.. do something in Haskell or C land ...
  hs_exit();

Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C
app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass
values back and forward.

I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;)

Cheers,
  Don
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-20 Thread S. Alexander Jacobson
Wow!  Did you also implement tcp in Haskell?
Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk?
(With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be 
really cool to get rid of the L as well!)

-Alex-
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
mark:
I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing
device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else,
it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet
experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I
had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code.
Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and
the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such
given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts?
Well, it would be tricky, but fun!
We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux,
as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and
drivers:
   http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/
and
   
http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/
So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that
isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway.
Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, much
as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves
compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9
main.c is helpful).  Something like: ;)
egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 
-lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl 
-lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata 
-lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u 
GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ...
Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be
good):
 hs_init(argc, argv);
   .. do something in Haskell or C land ...
 hs_exit();
Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C
app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass
values back and forward.
I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;)
Cheers,
 Don
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-20 Thread Donald Bruce Stewart
alex:
 Wow!  Did you also implement tcp in Haskell?
 Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk?
 
 (With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be 
 really cool to get rid of the L as well!)

Sorry! By We've got a few drivers written in Haskell, I meant
the Haskell community, not me personally :} You have the hOp and House
developers to thank for this stuff.

 On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
 
 mark:
 I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing
 device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else,
 it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet
 experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I
 had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code.
 
 Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and
 the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such
 given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts?
 
 Well, it would be tricky, but fun!
 
 We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux,
 as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and
 drivers:
http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/
 and

  http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/
 
 So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that
 isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway.
 
 Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, 
 much
 as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves
 compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9
 main.c is helpful).  Something like: ;)
 
 egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o 
 -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix 
 -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits 
 -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp 
 -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u 
 GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ...
 
 Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be
 good):
  hs_init(argc, argv);
.. do something in Haskell or C land ...
  hs_exit();
 
 Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C
 app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass
 values back and forward.
 
 I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;)
 
 Cheers,
  Don
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-20 Thread Donald Bruce Stewart
dons:
 alex:
  Wow!  Did you also implement tcp in Haskell?

On this topic, the following House code looks relevant:
http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Net/

There's something satsifying about seeing 'instance Functor Packet' in
IPv4.hs ;)

  Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk?
  
  (With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be 
  really cool to get rid of the L as well!)
 
 Sorry! By We've got a few drivers written in Haskell, I meant
 the Haskell community, not me personally :} You have the hOp and House
 developers to thank for this stuff.
 
  On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
  
  mark:
  I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing
  device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else,
  it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet
  experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I
  had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code.
  
  Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and
  the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such
  given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts?
  
  Well, it would be tricky, but fun!
  
  We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux,
  as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and
  drivers:
 http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/
  and
 
   http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/
  
  So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that
  isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway.
  
  Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a, 
  much
  as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves
  compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9
  main.c is helpful).  Something like: ;)
  
  egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o 
  -L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix 
  -lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits 
  -lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp 
  -u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u 
  GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ...
  
  Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be
  good):
   hs_init(argc, argv);
 .. do something in Haskell or C land ...
   hs_exit();
  
  Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C
  app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass
  values back and forward.
  
  I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;)
  
  Cheers,
   Don
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linux device drivers

2005-03-20 Thread S. Alexander Jacobson
Very very cool.
Has anyone written any storage drivers?
If there is already TCP, has someone written an iscsi (RFC3720) 
driver?

-Alex-

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
dons:
alex:
Wow!  Did you also implement tcp in Haskell?
On this topic, the following House code looks relevant:
   http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Net/
There's something satsifying about seeing 'instance Functor Packet' in
IPv4.hs ;)
Does hOp or House also have the ability to write to disk?
(With HAppS, I've gotten rid of the AMP part of LAMP, it would be
really cool to get rid of the L as well!)
Sorry! By We've got a few drivers written in Haskell, I meant
the Haskell community, not me personally :} You have the hOp and House
developers to thank for this stuff.
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
mark:
I was wondering about the possibility of using Haskell for developing
device drivers that would be kernel modules for Linux. If nothing else,
it would be quite an educational experience for me, as I've not yet
experimented with either the Linux kernel or Haskell FFI, nor have I
had to learn how to squeeze much performance out of my Haskell code.
Clearly, this application demands special things from the compiler and
the runtime. But, I'm not exactly sure what, nor how to achieve such
given current compilers. Does anyone have any thoughts?
Well, it would be tricky, but fun!
We've got a few drivers written in Haskell already (but not for Linux,
as far as I know). For example check out the House network stack and
drivers:
  http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/
and
  
http://cvs.haskell.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/programatica/hOp/kernel/Kernel/Driver/NE2000/
So there's heavy use of Data.Bits and Word# types - but nothing that
isn't fairly well established in GHC Haskell, anyway.
Then (for GHC, anyway) you'd have to link the kernel against libHSrts.a,
much
as we do when calling Haskell from other kinds of C apps, which involves
compiling the C app with all the magic flags ghc normally sets up (ghc -v9
main.c is helpful).  Something like: ;)
egcc -v -o a.out -DDONT_WANT_WIN32_DLL_SUPPORT main.o
-L/home/dons/lib/ghc-6.4 -lHStemplate-haskell -lHSCabal -lHSposix
-lHSposix_cbits -lHSlang -lHSmtl -lHShaskell-src -lHSunix -lHSunix_cbits
-lHShi -lHShaskell98 -lHSaltdata -lHSbase -lHSbase_cbits -lHSrts -lm -lgmp
-u GHCziBase_Izh_static_info -u GHCziBase_Czh_static_info -u
GHCziFloat_Fzh_static_info ...
Then, having the kernel start up the Haskell rts (at boot would be
good):
hs_init(argc, argv);
  .. do something in Haskell or C land ...
hs_exit();
Then you'd could dyn load (via GHC's rts) your Haskell driver into the C
app, and use it, as long as you've got a nice ffi interface to pass
values back and forward.
I'm sure the fun part is in the details ;)
Cheers,
Don
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Announce: Haskell-related Linux RPMs

1999-02-18 Thread Sven Panne

I've uploaded source RPMs and Linux RPMs (glibc) of the following programs
to our FTP server ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/pub/local/pms :

   * Alex: Chris Dornan's scanner generator for Haskell

   * GHC: The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System (from CVS)

   * Green Card: A foreign function interface preprocessor for Haskell

   * Happy: An LALR(1) parser generator for Haskell

   * Haskell Direct: An IDL compiler for Haskell

   * Hugs98: A Haskell Interpreter

Examples:

   * Installing Hugs98 on your system:

rpm -i 
ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/pub/local/pms/hugs98-990121-1.i386.rpm

   * Upgrading to the latest and greatest GHC:

rpm -U ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/pub/local/pms/ghc-4.03-1.i386.rpm

   * Building Happy locally:

rpm -i ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/pub/local/pms/happy-1.5-1.src.rpm
rpm -ba --clean /usr/src/packages/SPECS/happy.spec

All binary RPMs install below /usr. IMHO, using a separate hierarchy
like /usr/local is rather pointless with RPM's extensive bookkeeping.

To the ex-Glaswegians: If I read its license correctly, Happy is freely
distributable and GHC's status is changing "real soon now". But what
about Haskell Direct?

Have fun,
   Sven
-- 
Sven PanneTel.: +49/89/2178-2235
LMU, Institut fuer Informatik FAX : +49/89/2178-2211
LFE Programmier- und Modellierungssprachen  Oettingenstr. 67
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]D-80538 Muenchen
http://www.pms.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/mitarbeiter/panne



Re: haskell for linux

1993-05-15 Thread dingbat


In diku.lists.haskell you write:

Ok.  I know I've seen pointers for this,
but for the life of me I can't find it...

Does anybody know where the linux binaries
are for hbc?  (or any haskell implementation, really.)

You'd better have lots of ram for this ;)

From the README for Chalmers Lazy ML/Haskell compiler:
---

LML/HBC
  (Lazy ML/Haskell B Compiler)
Version 0.999.2 for the i386/i486 running Linux, January 1993

This is a port of the Chalmers Lazy ML and Haskell Functional 
Language Compilers for Linux.

__ WHERE TO GET

The Linux version is available via ftp from

   ftp.dcs.glasgow.ac.uk

Login as "anonymous". Look at the directory "pub/linux". You have to
get just the file "lml-0.999.2-linux.tar.Z". This file contains the
binaries needed to execute LML/HBC.

-

Niels