[hlds] Windows or linux why
Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
Windows, more plugins work with it On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Jake Eisenman ad...@oneskylitnight.orgwrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
Linux, more servers without more licensing costs. On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Michael Krasnow mnk...@gmail.com wrote: Windows, more plugins work with it On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Jake Eisenman ad...@oneskylitnight.org wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
Asking Linux or Windows is like comparing apples to oranges. Both have their pros and cons. If it's just one server I'd go Windows. On 27/03/2010 10:27 PM, Jake Eisenman wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
Unless your comparing Mac to PC, which might happen soon.. in regards to server hosting. Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:40:20 +0800 From: clontar...@iinet.net.au To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why Asking Linux or Windows is like comparing apples to oranges. Both have their pros and cons. If it's just one server I'd go Windows. On 27/03/2010 10:27 PM, Jake Eisenman wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Get personal with Windows. Download a free gift for your PC. http://experience.windows.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
Who care this is the windows list. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Jake Eisenman Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:28 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: [hlds] Windows or linux why Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
Whatever you feel more comfortable with securing and setting up. On Mar 27, 2010 9:31 AM, Jake Eisenman ad...@oneskylitnight.org wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
Mac OS X: safer, but less secureSecurity expert Charlie Miller intends to disclose a potentially record-breaking 20 zero day security holes in Apple's Mac OS X in one fell swoop. http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Mac-OS-X-safer-but-less-secure-Update-957981.html 2010/3/27 Dominic Marciano lambda1_...@hotmail.com Unless your comparing Mac to PC, which might happen soon.. in regards to server hosting. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
I use Windows, no problems here. Sent from my iWheel (I BEET U r JEAoLOUS) -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shane Arnold Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:40 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why Asking Linux or Windows is like comparing apples to oranges. Both have their pros and cons. If it's just one server I'd go Windows. On 27/03/2010 10:27 PM, Jake Eisenman wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
http://ingresstech.com/~bernard/instantCSI/ From: voo...@voogru.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 11:18:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why I use Windows, no problems here. Sent from my iWheel (I BEET U r JEAoLOUS) -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shane Arnold Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:40 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why Asking Linux or Windows is like comparing apples to oranges. Both have their pros and cons. If it's just one server I'd go Windows. On 27/03/2010 10:27 PM, Jake Eisenman wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Get the latest jobs delivered. Sign up for SEEK Jobmail. http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
well.. never mind that then. Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 16:12:19 +0100 From: h...@thenob.de To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why Mac OS X: safer, but less secureSecurity expert Charlie Miller intends to disclose a potentially record-breaking 20 zero day security holes in Apple's Mac OS X in one fell swoop. http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Mac-OS-X-safer-but-less-secure-Update-957981.html 2010/3/27 Dominic Marciano lambda1_...@hotmail.com Unless your comparing Mac to PC, which might happen soon.. in regards to server hosting. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Browse profiles for FREE! Meet local singles online. http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
My own unix distro? xD El 27/03/2010 16:24, Dominic Marciano escribió: http://ingresstech.com/~bernard/instantCSI/ From: voo...@voogru.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 11:18:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why I use Windows, no problems here. Sent from my iWheel (I BEET U r JEAoLOUS) -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shane Arnold Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:40 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why Asking Linux or Windows is like comparing apples to oranges. Both have their pros and cons. If it's just one server I'd go Windows. On 27/03/2010 10:27 PM, Jake Eisenman wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Get the latest jobs delivered. Sign up for SEEK Jobmail. http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
I'm of the opinion that Windows is better if you have a larger budget. The licensing costs and additional overhead mean you'd be spending more (on hardware *and* software), but in my opinion the tools are much nicer (IIS in particular is really good) and Remote Desktop can be a huge timesaver. There's also a lot of game dedicated servers that are only available for Windows. If you're only hosting a couple of Source games and maybe a basic PHP site, though, Linux all the way. It's cheaper and will make better use of the hardware. Dave Kellaway david.kella...@member.fsf.org On 27 March 2010 14:27, Jake Eisenman ad...@oneskylitnight.org wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
Hello, As a Game Server Provider I am more or less forced to use both Windows and Linux. But if all game server software were available for Linux, I would use Linux for all my servers. Easier to develop on, especially when programming a provisioning system and automating a bunch of other tasks. Sent from my Commodore 64 (which is awesome) On 27-3-2010 15:27, Jake Eisenman wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod -- Cheers, Hans ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
Linux. More tweakable. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Jake Eisenman Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:28 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: [hlds] Windows or linux why Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
Go with what your comfortable and proficient with. Opinions, pro's and con's too numerous to debate over. That is where this will go quickly, into 500 count response debate. Always go with what you know best. Hutch Submitted with my Vic-20 with DUAL tape drives via my TRS-80 router on a 1200 bit/s pipe ga-boing-boing-screch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
windows so I don't look gay G. Hutchinson wrote: Go with what your comfortable and proficient with. Opinions, pro's and con's too numerous to debate over. That is where this will go quickly, into 500 count response debate. Always go with what you know best. Hutch Submitted with my Vic-20 with DUAL tape drives via my TRS-80 router on a 1200 bit/s pipe ga-boing-boing-screch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
If you're renting a dedicated server from someone, generally the prices are the same for windows and linux, so there's no obvious plus or minus here. If you want to be able to automate everything without having to buy extra software and you have the ability to write simple shell scripts, then plus for linux. If you have piles of money laying around and either don't have a clue how to write shell scripts, or are too lazy to bother, then +1 for windows. If you are running source games, then you are going to have to use D-FENS to help protect against file upload exploits. Most source engines have a version of D-FENS on windows and linux, but on linux there is no plugin compiled for Left4Dead2, so you have to actually know what you're doing when it comes to locking down the filesystem and running the servers as unprivileged users. I spent a couple of hours working out a script to remove write access from the user directory my l4d2 server runs as so that when the server is running, nothing can be written by that server except for logs, spray files, and sourcemod gamedata, and it runs as part of the startup script for the server. When the server is shut down, everything becomes user-writeable again so that the server can be updated. It wouldn't have taken nearly as much time if I hadn't had to have a bunch of documentation up so that I knew what I was doing, so an experienced shell-scripter probably could have easily knocked it out in a few minutes. Source engine games are basically not optimized for linux, but they are mildly optimized for windows. Depending on how many servers you are trying to run on one box, this could become an issue. FTP is always a giant pain in the ass to secure properly, and since I have no idea how to do that, linux+ssh+scp for file transfers allows me to have an inherently secure method for transferring files to and from my server so long as the user passwords aren't easily attackable. Not sure how you would do this on windows. If you are trying to run anything other than game servers, more stuff is available for linux that is secure and free. Again, it goes back to money. Our clan runs a windows server 2k3 box that we rent from a GSP for 7 of our 8 servers. I have never had a huge amount of trouble using it or tweaking it, other than some issues with automatic updates and remote desktop. I have my own personal linux server that I run a l4d2 server for the clan on, also. Likewise, I have had little to no issues with it. It runs linux because I am familiar with it, because it's free (I already pay enough for the colocation without having to pay for windows and everything else), and because I am running a zimbra server on it, which isn't available for windows. So, basically, it's all about what you're comfortable with, what you plan on using it for, and what you can afford. On 3/27/2010 9:27 AM, Jake Eisenman wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
About write permissions, could you say set ownership of /cstrike/ (or similar) to user1 and update w/ that user, the run with user2 ? Sent from my iPod On Mar 27, 2010, at 7:42 PM, Matt Stanton inflatablesoulm...@brothersofchaos.com wrote: If you're renting a dedicated server from someone, generally the prices are the same for windows and linux, so there's no obvious plus or minus here. If you want to be able to automate everything without having to buy extra software and you have the ability to write simple shell scripts, then plus for linux. If you have piles of money laying around and either don't have a clue how to write shell scripts, or are too lazy to bother, then +1 for windows. If you are running source games, then you are going to have to use D-FENS to help protect against file upload exploits. Most source engines have a version of D-FENS on windows and linux, but on linux there is no plugin compiled for Left4Dead2, so you have to actually know what you're doing when it comes to locking down the filesystem and running the servers as unprivileged users. I spent a couple of hours working out a script to remove write access from the user directory my l4d2 server runs as so that when the server is running, nothing can be written by that server except for logs, spray files, and sourcemod gamedata, and it runs as part of the startup script for the server. When the server is shut down, everything becomes user-writeable again so that the server can be updated. It wouldn't have taken nearly as much time if I hadn't had to have a bunch of documentation up so that I knew what I was doing, so an experienced shell-scripter probably could have easily knocked it out in a few minutes. Source engine games are basically not optimized for linux, but they are mildly optimized for windows. Depending on how many servers you are trying to run on one box, this could become an issue. FTP is always a giant pain in the ass to secure properly, and since I have no idea how to do that, linux+ssh+scp for file transfers allows me to have an inherently secure method for transferring files to and from my server so long as the user passwords aren't easily attackable. Not sure how you would do this on windows. If you are trying to run anything other than game servers, more stuff is available for linux that is secure and free. Again, it goes back to money. Our clan runs a windows server 2k3 box that we rent from a GSP for 7 of our 8 servers. I have never had a huge amount of trouble using it or tweaking it, other than some issues with automatic updates and remote desktop. I have my own personal linux server that I run a l4d2 server for the clan on, also. Likewise, I have had little to no issues with it. It runs linux because I am familiar with it, because it's free (I already pay enough for the colocation without having to pay for windows and everything else), and because I am running a zimbra server on it, which isn't available for windows. So, basically, it's all about what you're comfortable with, what you plan on using it for, and what you can afford. On 3/27/2010 9:27 AM, Jake Eisenman wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
Since forever, players have been able to load plugins on their clients letting them get around cheat sensitive variables such as sv_cheats, allowing them to use r_drawothermodels, mat_wireframe, etc. We as server admins have had the option to install various anti cheat addons (Kigen Anti Cheat, VBAC, and than some rather lame ones for EventScripts) in order to get around these quite severe downfalls in the engine. However now, there is a LUA scripting interface http://www.3rdera.com/ that has been written, and is now fully supporting engine exploits in order to cause trouble for server admins and for other players. No one can justify it's use, every single script written has been made to get around server settings and protections put in place to keep order, and to keep the game fluently moving along. Right now, players cannot be VAC banned for using this, it's also going against every single reason why VAC was created. Instead of battling these antics with these scripters, I'm begging you Valve to please remove this function from clients as there's absolutely no reason for them to have it. I've sent two emails to a couple employees which were left unanswered, I know others have done the same. Here's a forum full of countless exploits: http://www.3rdera.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5 If you don't want to read the wall of text explaining why players should not be allowed to load plugins, I'm sure your common sense on the issue will be more than sufficient to respond. Kyle Sanderson. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
Personally, I think that client side plugins should be allowed, but limited in their possible scope. Things like http://www.tf2newbs.com/newbs_blog/2010/03/15/console-in-plugin/ are damned useful, but don't really allow you to do anything you couldn't do by typing into the console manually. That is the kind of client side plugin I think should be allowed. I use the above because keeping track of what I have bound to where to get G-Keys to work for me is a PITA. (Not arguing that the LUA plugin should be allowed, for the record) -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Sanderson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:33 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough. Since forever, players have been able to load plugins on their clients letting them get around cheat sensitive variables such as sv_cheats, allowing them to use r_drawothermodels, mat_wireframe, etc. We as server admins have had the option to install various anti cheat addons (Kigen Anti Cheat, VBAC, and than some rather lame ones for EventScripts) in order to get around these quite severe downfalls in the engine. However now, there is a LUA scripting interface http://www.3rdera.com/ that has been written, and is now fully supporting engine exploits in order to cause trouble for server admins and for other players. No one can justify it's use, every single script written has been made to get around server settings and protections put in place to keep order, and to keep the game fluently moving along. Right now, players cannot be VAC banned for using this, it's also going against every single reason why VAC was created. Instead of battling these antics with these scripters, I'm begging you Valve to please remove this function from clients as there's absolutely no reason for them to have it. I've sent two emails to a couple employees which were left unanswered, I know others have done the same. Here's a forum full of countless exploits: http://www.3rdera.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5 If you don't want to read the wall of text explaining why players should not be allowed to load plugins, I'm sure your common sense on the issue will be more than sufficient to respond. Kyle Sanderson. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
valve really needs to beef up the exploit blocking, look how many exploits are still out there, http://wiki.alliedmods.net/SRCDS_Hardening On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 8:57 PM, David Kellaway david.kella...@member.fsf.org wrote: With regards to the LUA scripting plugin, the next version of KAC will treat it as a cheat. I completely agree that it's absurd the community has to write its own anticheat plugins to plug holes left by Valve's approach, though. --- Dave Kellaway david.kella...@member.fsf.org On 28 March 2010 00:33, Kyle Sanderson kyle.l...@gmail.com wrote: Since forever, players have been able to load plugins on their clients letting them get around cheat sensitive variables such as sv_cheats, allowing them to use r_drawothermodels, mat_wireframe, etc. We as server admins have had the option to install various anti cheat addons (Kigen Anti Cheat, VBAC, and than some rather lame ones for EventScripts) in order to get around these quite severe downfalls in the engine. However now, there is a LUA scripting interface http://www.3rdera.com/ that has been written, and is now fully supporting engine exploits in order to cause trouble for server admins and for other players. No one can justify it's use, every single script written has been made to get around server settings and protections put in place to keep order, and to keep the game fluently moving along. Right now, players cannot be VAC banned for using this, it's also going against every single reason why VAC was created. Instead of battling these antics with these scripters, I'm begging you Valve to please remove this function from clients as there's absolutely no reason for them to have it. I've sent two emails to a couple employees which were left unanswered, I know others have done the same. Here's a forum full of countless exploits: http://www.3rdera.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5 If you don't want to read the wall of text explaining why players should not be allowed to load plugins, I'm sure your common sense on the issue will be more than sufficient to respond. Kyle Sanderson. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
Agreed, hopefully public disclosure will help Valve get a move on fixing this. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Michael Krasnow mnk...@gmail.com wrote: valve really needs to beef up the exploit blocking, look how many exploits are still out there, http://wiki.alliedmods.net/SRCDS_Hardening On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 8:57 PM, David Kellaway david.kella...@member.fsf.org wrote: With regards to the LUA scripting plugin, the next version of KAC will treat it as a cheat. I completely agree that it's absurd the community has to write its own anticheat plugins to plug holes left by Valve's approach, though. --- Dave Kellaway david.kella...@member.fsf.org On 28 March 2010 00:33, Kyle Sanderson kyle.l...@gmail.com wrote: Since forever, players have been able to load plugins on their clients letting them get around cheat sensitive variables such as sv_cheats, allowing them to use r_drawothermodels, mat_wireframe, etc. We as server admins have had the option to install various anti cheat addons (Kigen Anti Cheat, VBAC, and than some rather lame ones for EventScripts) in order to get around these quite severe downfalls in the engine. However now, there is a LUA scripting interface http://www.3rdera.com/ that has been written, and is now fully supporting engine exploits in order to cause trouble for server admins and for other players. No one can justify it's use, every single script written has been made to get around server settings and protections put in place to keep order, and to keep the game fluently moving along. Right now, players cannot be VAC banned for using this, it's also going against every single reason why VAC was created. Instead of battling these antics with these scripters, I'm begging you Valve to please remove this function from clients as there's absolutely no reason for them to have it. I've sent two emails to a couple employees which were left unanswered, I know others have done the same. Here's a forum full of countless exploits: http://www.3rdera.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5 If you don't want to read the wall of text explaining why players should not be allowed to load plugins, I'm sure your common sense on the issue will be more than sufficient to respond. Kyle Sanderson. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
David this was already rectified by the LSS developers, openscript is no longer the command as it can be easily renamed to anything. I've been getting hit numerous times by some new exploit which crashes clients / disconnects everyone ingame. From what I've been told, it's the new disconnect message feature in LSS which can clean out your entire server when they leave. This needs to be fixed as soon as possible, Kyle. On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 5:57 PM, David Kellaway david.kella...@member.fsf.org wrote: With regards to the LUA scripting plugin, the next version of KAC will treat it as a cheat. I completely agree that it's absurd the community has to write its own anticheat plugins to plug holes left by Valve's approach, though. --- Dave Kellaway david.kella...@member.fsf.org On 28 March 2010 00:33, Kyle Sanderson kyle.l...@gmail.com wrote: Since forever, players have been able to load plugins on their clients letting them get around cheat sensitive variables such as sv_cheats, allowing them to use r_drawothermodels, mat_wireframe, etc. We as server admins have had the option to install various anti cheat addons (Kigen Anti Cheat, VBAC, and than some rather lame ones for EventScripts) in order to get around these quite severe downfalls in the engine. However now, there is a LUA scripting interface http://www.3rdera.com/ that has been written, and is now fully supporting engine exploits in order to cause trouble for server admins and for other players. No one can justify it's use, every single script written has been made to get around server settings and protections put in place to keep order, and to keep the game fluently moving along. Right now, players cannot be VAC banned for using this, it's also going against every single reason why VAC was created. Instead of battling these antics with these scripters, I'm begging you Valve to please remove this function from clients as there's absolutely no reason for them to have it. I've sent two emails to a couple employees which were left unanswered, I know others have done the same. Here's a forum full of countless exploits: http://www.3rdera.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5 If you don't want to read the wall of text explaining why players should not be allowed to load plugins, I'm sure your common sense on the issue will be more than sufficient to respond. Kyle Sanderson. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
one day we will see this in a changelog: - Removed all commands so that people stop emailing us about fixing exploits. - All movements decreased by 100%. - Increased gravity to 9. - Removed chat features. Just wait for it, you will all see :) On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Kyle Sanderson kyle.l...@gmail.com wrote: David this was already rectified by the LSS developers, openscript is no longer the command as it can be easily renamed to anything. I've been getting hit numerous times by some new exploit which crashes clients / disconnects everyone ingame. From what I've been told, it's the new disconnect message feature in LSS which can clean out your entire server when they leave. This needs to be fixed as soon as possible, Kyle. On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 5:57 PM, David Kellaway david.kella...@member.fsf.org wrote: With regards to the LUA scripting plugin, the next version of KAC will treat it as a cheat. I completely agree that it's absurd the community has to write its own anticheat plugins to plug holes left by Valve's approach, though. --- Dave Kellaway david.kella...@member.fsf.org On 28 March 2010 00:33, Kyle Sanderson kyle.l...@gmail.com wrote: Since forever, players have been able to load plugins on their clients letting them get around cheat sensitive variables such as sv_cheats, allowing them to use r_drawothermodels, mat_wireframe, etc. We as server admins have had the option to install various anti cheat addons (Kigen Anti Cheat, VBAC, and than some rather lame ones for EventScripts) in order to get around these quite severe downfalls in the engine. However now, there is a LUA scripting interface http://www.3rdera.com/ that has been written, and is now fully supporting engine exploits in order to cause trouble for server admins and for other players. No one can justify it's use, every single script written has been made to get around server settings and protections put in place to keep order, and to keep the game fluently moving along. Right now, players cannot be VAC banned for using this, it's also going against every single reason why VAC was created. Instead of battling these antics with these scripters, I'm begging you Valve to please remove this function from clients as there's absolutely no reason for them to have it. I've sent two emails to a couple employees which were left unanswered, I know others have done the same. Here's a forum full of countless exploits: http://www.3rdera.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5 If you don't want to read the wall of text explaining why players should not be allowed to load plugins, I'm sure your common sense on the issue will be more than sufficient to respond. Kyle Sanderson. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Windows or linux why
You could chmod 750 the executable files and chmod 640 everything else, chown as user1:runusers, and add user2 to the runusers group... Then you could run the server as user2 and update as user1. I just didn't want to confuse myself. If I try to edit something while the server is running, I want it to tell me a can't so know it's doing its job. I can always remove protection while the server is running to add plugins or edit files, then turn it back on again without interrupting the server process. I have a tendency to forget what user I'm logged in as, and I would no doubt forget that I'm user1 and start the server up, which would break all the protection I had set up. For usability purposes, what you suggested is more friendly, and likely slightly more safe, since there are no windows of opportunity, but only if you pay attention, which I don't do a whole lot of. :) On 3/27/2010 6:47 PM, Jake Eisenman wrote: About write permissions, could you say set ownership of /cstrike/ (or similar) to user1 and update w/ that user, the run with user2 ? Sent from my iPod On Mar 27, 2010, at 7:42 PM, Matt Stantoninflatablesoulm...@brothersofchaos.com wrote: If you're renting a dedicated server from someone, generally the prices are the same for windows and linux, so there's no obvious plus or minus here. If you want to be able to automate everything without having to buy extra software and you have the ability to write simple shell scripts, then plus for linux. If you have piles of money laying around and either don't have a clue how to write shell scripts, or are too lazy to bother, then +1 for windows. If you are running source games, then you are going to have to use D-FENS to help protect against file upload exploits. Most source engines have a version of D-FENS on windows and linux, but on linux there is no plugin compiled for Left4Dead2, so you have to actually know what you're doing when it comes to locking down the filesystem and running the servers as unprivileged users. I spent a couple of hours working out a script to remove write access from the user directory my l4d2 server runs as so that when the server is running, nothing can be written by that server except for logs, spray files, and sourcemod gamedata, and it runs as part of the startup script for the server. When the server is shut down, everything becomes user-writeable again so that the server can be updated. It wouldn't have taken nearly as much time if I hadn't had to have a bunch of documentation up so that I knew what I was doing, so an experienced shell-scripter probably could have easily knocked it out in a few minutes. Source engine games are basically not optimized for linux, but they are mildly optimized for windows. Depending on how many servers you are trying to run on one box, this could become an issue. FTP is always a giant pain in the ass to secure properly, and since I have no idea how to do that, linux+ssh+scp for file transfers allows me to have an inherently secure method for transferring files to and from my server so long as the user passwords aren't easily attackable. Not sure how you would do this on windows. If you are trying to run anything other than game servers, more stuff is available for linux that is secure and free. Again, it goes back to money. Our clan runs a windows server 2k3 box that we rent from a GSP for 7 of our 8 servers. I have never had a huge amount of trouble using it or tweaking it, other than some issues with automatic updates and remote desktop. I have my own personal linux server that I run a l4d2 server for the clan on, also. Likewise, I have had little to no issues with it. It runs linux because I am familiar with it, because it's free (I already pay enough for the colocation without having to pay for windows and everything else), and because I am running a zimbra server on it, which isn't available for windows. So, basically, it's all about what you're comfortable with, what you plan on using it for, and what you can afford. On 3/27/2010 9:27 AM, Jake Eisenman wrote: Just curious. Personally I use Linux because I know how to setup everything quickly from ssh Sent from my iPod ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
