Re: [HOT] Overpass and schools in Mali

[Jean-Marc Liotier]

On Sun, August 26, 2018 6:24 pm, john whelan wrote:
>
> In Mali there appears to be an import of schools based on UNICEF data.
> amenity=school source=UNICEF

By the way, this import is quite bad. It does have a lot of attributes,
but the basics are disappointing: position can be a couple kilometers from
the actual location and ALL CAPS NAMES are irritating. Approximate
positions are not always unacceptable, especially with a
"fixme=approximate position" but they are not recorded as such and they
are often so far from actual locations that no one bothers sorting them
out. Opendatamali acknowledged my remarks
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/25474220) but took no action. As
for the ALL CAPS NAMES, opendatamali claimed three years ago
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/25474402) that the ministry of
education told them on the phone they are standard for information
exchange - please, that is the ministry of education's problem not
Openstreetmap's... After years of being irritated, I'm horribly tempted to
convert them all to lowercase with uppercase first letters.


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Re: [HOT] Overpass and schools in Mali

[john whelan]

Converting them sounds good to me.

It the southern part of the country I've added a considerable number of
settlements and the schools were useful in identifying places where the
larger villages were likely to be so ut should be easier for someone local
to move the schools to the correct location.  However it could do with a
few more highways.

Cheerio John

On 31 August 2018 at 22:29, Jean-Marc Liotier  wrote:

> On 2018-08-26 18:24, john whelan wrote:
>
> In Mali there appears to be an import of schools based on UNICEF data.
> amenity=school source=UNICEF
> [..]
>
>
> By the way, this import is quite bad. It does have a lot of attributes,
> but the basics are disappointing: position can be a couple kilometers from
> the actual location and ALL CAPS NAMES are irritating. Approximate
> positions are not always unacceptable, especially with a "fixme=approximate
> position" but they are not recorded as such and they are often so far from
> actual locations that no one bothers sorting them out. Opendatamali
> acknowledged my remarks (https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/25474220)
> but took no action. As
> for the ALL CAPS NAMES, opendatamali claimed three years ago (
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/25474402) that the ministry of
> education told them on the phone they are standard for information exchange
> - please, that is the ministry of education's problem not
> Openstreetmap's... After years of being irritated, I'm horribly tempted to
> convert them all to lowercase with uppercase first letter.
>
>
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Re: [HOT] Overpass and schools in Mali

[john whelan]

JOSM works fairly well.

Thanks John

On Sun, 26 Aug 2018, 1:03 pm Andrew Buck,  wrote:

> Yes, it is correct there should likely be residential areas nearby,
> maybe a few km for some of them.  My point was that simply doing an
> "inside" query is not enough.  I don't know that overpass is capable of
> returning schools that are *not* nearby residential areas, only inside.
> You can return schools that *are* nearby residential areas, or
> residential areas near schools, but as far as I know there is no way to
> query on the opposite.
>
>
> -AndrewBuck
>
>
> On 08/26/2018 12:00 PM, john whelan wrote:
> > But it does identify locations where there should be say 100 people
> living
> > within walking distance.
> >
> > I'm using search in JOSM currently and there are a fair number of
> villages
> > I've picked up by zooming into locations that have a school but the rest
> of
> > the map is totally blank.
> >
> > If I'm feeling nice I try to add in a connecting highway as well.
> >
> > Cheerio John
> >
> > On Sun, 26 Aug 2018, 12:32 pm Andrew Buck, 
> wrote:
> >
> >> This won't actually give you useful data.  A signifigant number of the
> >> schools in Mali and elsewhere in Africa are not actually located in the
> >> town they serve, but rather about 1/2 km or so outside of the town, or
> >> about halfway between two or more towns. So a significant number
> >> actually shouldn't be in a residential area.
> >>
> >>
> >> -AndrewBuck
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 08/26/2018 11:24 AM, john whelan wrote:
> >>> One of the nice things about schools is they have pupils which implies
> >>> people living nearby.
> >>>
> >>> In Mali there appears to be an import of schools based on UNICEF data.
> >>> amenity=school source=UNICEF
> >>>
> >>> Could some nice person put together an overpass of any schools that are
> >> not
> >>> within a landuse=residential or place=village or town please?
> >>>
> >>> I can do a fair bit in JOSM but I suspect an overpass set of results
> >> which
> >>> could be imported into JOSM would help pick out the larger unmapped
> >>> villages.
> >>>
> >>> I suspect similar data might be available for other countries.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks John
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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Re: [HOT] Overpass and schools in Mali

[Andrew Buck]

Yes, it is correct there should likely be residential areas nearby, 
maybe a few km for some of them.  My point was that simply doing an 
"inside" query is not enough.  I don't know that overpass is capable of 
returning schools that are *not* nearby residential areas, only inside.  
You can return schools that *are* nearby residential areas, or 
residential areas near schools, but as far as I know there is no way to 
query on the opposite.



-AndrewBuck


On 08/26/2018 12:00 PM, john whelan wrote:

But it does identify locations where there should be say 100 people living
within walking distance.

I'm using search in JOSM currently and there are a fair number of villages
I've picked up by zooming into locations that have a school but the rest of
the map is totally blank.

If I'm feeling nice I try to add in a connecting highway as well.

Cheerio John

On Sun, 26 Aug 2018, 12:32 pm Andrew Buck,  wrote:


This won't actually give you useful data.  A signifigant number of the
schools in Mali and elsewhere in Africa are not actually located in the
town they serve, but rather about 1/2 km or so outside of the town, or
about halfway between two or more towns. So a significant number
actually shouldn't be in a residential area.


-AndrewBuck




On 08/26/2018 11:24 AM, john whelan wrote:

One of the nice things about schools is they have pupils which implies
people living nearby.

In Mali there appears to be an import of schools based on UNICEF data.
amenity=school source=UNICEF

Could some nice person put together an overpass of any schools that are

not

within a landuse=residential or place=village or town please?

I can do a fair bit in JOSM but I suspect an overpass set of results

which

could be imported into JOSM would help pick out the larger unmapped
villages.

I suspect similar data might be available for other countries.

Thanks John



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Re: [HOT] Overpass and schools in Mali

[john whelan]

But it does identify locations where there should be say 100 people living
within walking distance.

I'm using search in JOSM currently and there are a fair number of villages
I've picked up by zooming into locations that have a school but the rest of
the map is totally blank.

If I'm feeling nice I try to add in a connecting highway as well.

Cheerio John

On Sun, 26 Aug 2018, 12:32 pm Andrew Buck,  wrote:

> This won't actually give you useful data.  A signifigant number of the
> schools in Mali and elsewhere in Africa are not actually located in the
> town they serve, but rather about 1/2 km or so outside of the town, or
> about halfway between two or more towns. So a significant number
> actually shouldn't be in a residential area.
>
>
> -AndrewBuck
>
>
>
>
> On 08/26/2018 11:24 AM, john whelan wrote:
> > One of the nice things about schools is they have pupils which implies
> > people living nearby.
> >
> > In Mali there appears to be an import of schools based on UNICEF data.
> > amenity=school source=UNICEF
> >
> > Could some nice person put together an overpass of any schools that are
> not
> > within a landuse=residential or place=village or town please?
> >
> > I can do a fair bit in JOSM but I suspect an overpass set of results
> which
> > could be imported into JOSM would help pick out the larger unmapped
> > villages.
> >
> > I suspect similar data might be available for other countries.
> >
> > Thanks John
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > HOT mailing list
> > HOT@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
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Re: [HOT] Overpass and schools in Mali

[Andrew Buck]

This won't actually give you useful data.  A signifigant number of the 
schools in Mali and elsewhere in Africa are not actually located in the 
town they serve, but rather about 1/2 km or so outside of the town, or 
about halfway between two or more towns. So a significant number 
actually shouldn't be in a residential area.



-AndrewBuck




On 08/26/2018 11:24 AM, john whelan wrote:

One of the nice things about schools is they have pupils which implies
people living nearby.

In Mali there appears to be an import of schools based on UNICEF data.
amenity=school source=UNICEF

Could some nice person put together an overpass of any schools that are not
within a landuse=residential or place=village or town please?

I can do a fair bit in JOSM but I suspect an overpass set of results which
could be imported into JOSM would help pick out the larger unmapped
villages.

I suspect similar data might be available for other countries.

Thanks John



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