Re: [Hpr] Auditing the janitors
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 3:27 PM Ken Fallon wrote: > My initial suggestion is to have an Auditor from the Community join the > Admin channels for the purposes of monitoring their work. This should be > a rotating position, so that the person/people don't become on of the team. > This seems like a reasonable approach to me. I'd encourage a "select a host from a randomly ordered list but allow to decline and pick next" over an "ask for volunteers" or "community vote" approach, as it's easier to demonstrate an absence of bias. The question of "how often does it rotate?" deserves an answer balancing the toil of the janitors in reaching out to (potentially many) hosts who decline, against having one auditor serve too long. Monthly feels bursensomely often, and yearly feels like a long time. Perhaps quarterly? They could then report to the mail list or on the community news when > they feel that there is anything that is not above board. > "Above board" here meaning "according to current policy as decided by the mailing list" Anyone got any better ideas ? > I most certainly do not have a better idea. Humblest admiration, - Laindir > ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show
Lol @ woke. You don’t know me very well. If it helps your examples are mostly acceptable to me. I would argue against some of them on the grounds that they are not hacking, technology, or culture related. Not even loosely. I defended allowing the covid alternative treatment episodes last year when the “woke” mob were trying to censor that one. And I suggested a follow up show as counterpoints exactly as you suggested. So yeah. I still say nothing illegal and stand by that. I can’t even think of an example but we will bring it up if we see it. It will be a transparent decision just like ken is doing now. -DB Sent from my iPhone. > On Mar 23, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Jannik Pruitt wrote: > > > "hateful or illegal activity" > Wow that is a bit woke. Or the Uk version of no god and socialist. > > One mans hate is other one's joy. > > illegal has many faces to. If you live in a dry county would a show about > homemade beer be illegal? > > If you think the first black woman nominated to the supreme court is or is > not qualified is that hate speech? What about transgender athletes? Pro or > con hate speech. KDE Vs xfce? Is that that hate speech? What about Covid > or abortion it all fits under hateful. > > It is too wide a net for Ken and Dave to censor far better to make a follow > up show if you disagree. > > jwp > > > >> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022, 07:47 stankd...@stankdawg.com, >> wrote: >> Replying to the original but read all the responses. >> >> I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for better communication >> with the contributor and the community. He has that much respect to be open >> about it. Don’t overthink it. Don’t jump to conclusions on any reasons >> until the communication is complete. You may never even find out. >> >> Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free speech and are >> against censorship. But just like forums or tv shows or web sites we must >> have boundaries. Again I have no idea if there are content issues with this >> show that cross any of those boundaries or any show. But don’t cry >> censorship if I or the admins/janitors/etc choose to disallow a show that >> promotes hateful or illegal activity. That is not censorship. That is safety >> and responsibility. You must trust the system and again I trust Ken >> completely. >> >> Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and assume positive >> intent of the people who have been successfully running this show for >> several years. I am certain that they have earned that respect. >> >> -StankDawg >> >> Sent from my iPhone. >> >> > On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon wrote: >> > >> > Hi All, >> > >> > One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about >> > it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think >> > they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied. >> > >> > Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot >> > can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply. >> > >> > -- >> > Regards, >> > >> > Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN) >> > https://kenfallon.com >> > https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > Hpr mailing list >> > Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org >> > http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org >> >> >> ___ >> Hpr mailing list >> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org >> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show
I have opened a different thread about how best to audit the work of the Janitors. Moving the show is indeed becoming an issue and needs to be done this weekend. The initial suggestion was to move it to hpr3576 on 2022-04-18. I suggest some of the people that objected to the move, or those who have concerns about the process contact me directly. I can walk them through the chain of events and they can report back to the list: 1. If the believe that the decisions taken by the Janitors (me in this case) were in good faith. 2. If they agree with the course of action suggested. They would of course be bound to the same rules of confidentiality that I am. Volunteers ? -- Regards, Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN) https://kenfallon.com https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon On 2022-03-23 21:15, Carl D Hamann wrote: On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon wrote: > > Hi All, > > One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied. > > Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply. Here's what I'm hearing so far: 1. Our current janitors are doing a good job, and we trust them to make decisions that are in the best interest of the podcast and the community. 2. Everyone, including the janitors, would prefer a clear, objective process that does not depend on that trust. 3. The current process is to reach out to the contributing host, after the show is posted to the `future` feed, if there are any potential issues with it. 5. If the contributing host cannot be reached, the mailing list is asked for permission to move the show temporarily, until the contributing host responds. The mailing list IS NOT asked to make a judgment on the "potential issue". 4. There is an open question about what constitutes a "potential issue" and whether the reach-out-to-host itself constitutes censorship or at least a chilling effect. (I feel discussing this is important but that answering the immediate question of temporarily moving the show is pressing and needs an answer.) Given, that the janitors are following the current process, my answer is "yes, move the show". As for the rest of us, feel free to continue debating whether that process needs altering I think it's a healthy discussion that benefits the community, and ideally, allows the janitors to eventually hand over their duties and retire (should they so wish), secure in the knowledge that the process will safeguard both the podcast and the community for decades to come. Sincerest appreciation, - Laindir ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
[Hpr] Auditing the janitors
Hi All, I'd like to suggest a new thread about the need to provide oversight into the work of the janitors. My initial suggestion is to have an Auditor from the Community join the Admin channels for the purposes of monitoring their work. This should be a rotating position, so that the person/people don't become on of the team. They could then report to the mail list or on the community news when they feel that there is anything that is not above board. Anyone got any better ideas ? -- Regards, Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN) https://kenfallon.com https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show
On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon wrote: > > Hi All, > > One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied. > > Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply. Here's what I'm hearing so far: 1. Our current janitors are doing a good job, and we trust them to make decisions that are in the best interest of the podcast and the community. 2. Everyone, including the janitors, would prefer a clear, objective process that does not depend on that trust. 3. The current process is to reach out to the contributing host, after the show is posted to the `future` feed, if there are any potential issues with it. 5. If the contributing host cannot be reached, the mailing list is asked for permission to move the show temporarily, until the contributing host responds. The mailing list IS NOT asked to make a judgment on the "potential issue". 4. There is an open question about what constitutes a "potential issue" and whether the reach-out-to-host itself constitutes censorship or at least a chilling effect. (I feel discussing this is important but that answering the immediate question of temporarily moving the show is pressing and needs an answer.) Given, that the janitors are following the current process, my answer is "yes, move the show". As for the rest of us, feel free to continue debating whether that process needs altering I think it's a healthy discussion that benefits the community, and ideally, allows the janitors to eventually hand over their duties and retire (should they so wish), secure in the knowledge that the process will safeguard both the podcast and the community for decades to come. Sincerest appreciation, - Laindir ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show
"hateful or illegal activity" Wow that is a bit woke. Or the Uk version of no god and socialist. One mans hate is other one's joy. illegal has many faces to. If you live in a dry county would a show about homemade beer be illegal? If you think the first black woman nominated to the supreme court is or is not qualified is that hate speech? What about transgender athletes? Pro or con hate speech. KDE Vs xfce? Is that that hate speech? What about Covid or abortion it all fits under hateful. It is too wide a net for Ken and Dave to censor far better to make a follow up show if you disagree. jwp On Wed, 23 Mar 2022, 07:47 stankd...@stankdawg.com, wrote: > Replying to the original but read all the responses. > > I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for better > communication with the contributor and the community. He has that much > respect to be open about it. Don’t overthink it. Don’t jump to conclusions > on any reasons until the communication is complete. You may never even find > out. > > Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free speech and are > against censorship. But just like forums or tv shows or web sites we must > have boundaries. Again I have no idea if there are content issues with this > show that cross any of those boundaries or any show. But don’t cry > censorship if I or the admins/janitors/etc choose to disallow a show that > promotes hateful or illegal activity. That is not censorship. That is > safety and responsibility. You must trust the system and again I trust Ken > completely. > > Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and assume positive > intent of the people who have been successfully running this show for > several years. I am certain that they have earned that respect. > > -StankDawg > > Sent from my iPhone. > > > On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about > it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think > they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied. > > > > Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot > can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN) > > https://kenfallon.com > > https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon > > > > > > ___ > > Hpr mailing list > > Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org > > http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org > > > ___ > Hpr mailing list > Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org > http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org > ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] eSpeak (don't cringe, its positive, not more banging on about how great it is)
While on this subject, I'm really curious what voice was used to made episode 3558 . Can someone tell? Op 23 mrt. 2022 17:18, om 17:18, Mike Ray schreef: >Hello folks > >Well what do you know? > >I have recently installed the newest version of the NVDA open source >screen reader for Windows. > >And it now uses espeak-ng (ng for new generation). > >I don't know how 'new generation' it is. On Linux there are still >problems with it responding to 'stop' commands. And the build system is > >still a mess. > >But... > >There are some new voices. > >The default voice, variant 'Max', is the one every photon-dependent one > >of you moans about. > >But I have fallen in love with the new voice called 'Edward 2'. It is >lovely. And it still features eSpeak's small footprint. No bloatware, >unlike MaryTTS and the like. eSpeak continues to be light enough to run > >on even the first generation Raspberry Pi. > >I listened to the OpenTTS HPR episode a few nights ago. So I cloned the > >repository, because I thought I might be able to write a speakup (Linux > >console screen reader) to OpenTTS connector, based on espeakup. But >OpenTTS failed to build. > >I will go back to it when I get a chance. But don't get much spare time > >at the moment. > >Just thought you might like to hear me banging on about eSpeak again, >but this time in a not-so-snarky way. > >Mike > >-- >Michael A. Ray >Software engineer >Witley, Surrey, South-east UK > >He/him/cis > >"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but >when >there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery > > > >___ >Hpr mailing list >Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org >http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
[Hpr] eSpeak (don't cringe, its positive, not more banging on about how great it is)
Hello folks Well what do you know? I have recently installed the newest version of the NVDA open source screen reader for Windows. And it now uses espeak-ng (ng for new generation). I don't know how 'new generation' it is. On Linux there are still problems with it responding to 'stop' commands. And the build system is still a mess. But... There are some new voices. The default voice, variant 'Max', is the one every photon-dependent one of you moans about. But I have fallen in love with the new voice called 'Edward 2'. It is lovely. And it still features eSpeak's small footprint. No bloatware, unlike MaryTTS and the like. eSpeak continues to be light enough to run on even the first generation Raspberry Pi. I listened to the OpenTTS HPR episode a few nights ago. So I cloned the repository, because I thought I might be able to write a speakup (Linux console screen reader) to OpenTTS connector, based on espeakup. But OpenTTS failed to build. I will go back to it when I get a chance. But don't get much spare time at the moment. Just thought you might like to hear me banging on about eSpeak again, but this time in a not-so-snarky way. Mike -- Michael A. Ray Software engineer Witley, Surrey, South-east UK He/him/cis "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show
Replying to the original but read all the responses. I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for better communication with the contributor and the community. He has that much respect to be open about it. Don’t overthink it. Don’t jump to conclusions on any reasons until the communication is complete. You may never even find out. Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free speech and are against censorship. But just like forums or tv shows or web sites we must have boundaries. Again I have no idea if there are content issues with this show that cross any of those boundaries or any show. But don’t cry censorship if I or the admins/janitors/etc choose to disallow a show that promotes hateful or illegal activity. That is not censorship. That is safety and responsibility. You must trust the system and again I trust Ken completely. Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and assume positive intent of the people who have been successfully running this show for several years. I am certain that they have earned that respect. -StankDawg Sent from my iPhone. > On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon wrote: > > Hi All, > > One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about it > and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think they are > off line for a bit as they haven't replied. > > Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot can > be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply. > > -- > Regards, > > Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN) > https://kenfallon.com > https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon > > > ___ > Hpr mailing list > Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org > http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
