Re: [IAEP] Some Comments on Digital Textbooks In California

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Yeah, I got a few comments.
 
1. At some point, schools will be so poor, textbooks will no longer be an
issue.  They will be forced to make or use freely created texts.  I see it
already.  My son's Saxon math book literally fell apart.  It is so old, I
had to buy it on ebay for $14.  No kidding.
 
2.  Saxon math sucks. What the hell are we doing with crappy math books.
Can we take a little from a bunch of books and make our own?  A little of
Saxon, a little of Singapore, a little (well preferably a lot) of SRA
Connecting Math Concepts.  Put em all together, that's what it's all about!
 
3. As with grades online, if the kid or parents don't have access, print it
for the kid.  Hopefully teachers spend enough time to know each kid and
family situation.  Heck, send out a survey and call the parents that don't
return the survey.  At our school, they try to line up enough computer lab
time but that doesn't alway work out.  Lend out computers with the book
loaded or a CD.  Hey, how bout one of them OLPC XO jobs?
 
4.  Ensure, as a teacher, you have a printing and paper budget. For goodness
shake! (as my Hungarian father used to say)
 
5.  As with everything, never assume funding.  Make it work on a shoestring
budget.  Be creative.
 
-Kathy - mom of Calvin, attemptor of python programming, previous open
"sores" hater, and shoe-string budgeter

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Caryl Bigenho
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:53 AM
To: Community Support Volunteers -- who help respond t; IAEP SugarLabs
Subject: [IAEP] Some Comments on Digital Textbooks In California


Hi... 

Adam Holt alerted me to Gov. Schwarzenegger's proposal to go digital with
textbooks statewide in California high schools, starting with math and
science this year.  Here is my retired teacher's view of the situation...





(See:  
http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/fact-sheet/12455/)




The Good:




Textbooks can be up to date and, hopefully, will be.







The Bad




Gov. Schwarzenegger suggests teachers can "print out pages for students who
do not have computers."  Who pays?  Probably the teachers!  This really
shows no commitment to supplying the schools with computers







The Ugly




Textbook publishing is a big, competitive business.  Lots of profits are to
be made in publishing textbooks.  What incentive will there be to publish
free online books? You can bet they will not be free for long.




Hum...

Maybe we do need Jerry Brown to run for governor.  He had a huge commitment
to educational technology when he was in office.




Any comments?




Caryl

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Re: [IAEP] adding or updating an Activity: two typical teacherscenarios, let's lower barrier to installation

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Sadly I've done number 1 when I first got my XO.  It didn't take long for
someone to tell me that you had to browse and download using the machine
RUNNING sugar and that you had to go to Journal and run the install program.
Once I figured that out it was relatively easy.  Also seemed to work for my
SoaS machines (at least downloading and installing Turtle Typing).

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Sean DALY
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:35 AM
To: iaep; Sugar Labs Marketing
Subject: [IAEP] adding or updating an Activity: two typical
teacherscenarios, let's lower barrier to installation

Scenario 1:

Let's say I'm a teacher reading about Sugar in a magazine. I consider myself
comfortable with computers, visit the web every day, but have never used the
command line. I've succeeded in downloading SoaS, loading it onto a stick
with the Fedora LiveUSB Creator and booting my PC with it. I've tried a few
Activities and am wondering what other Activities are available. Later, back
in Windows, I've visited www.sugarlabs.org and found the Activities section.
Browsing by section, I find a couple of Activities that seem interesting.
I've clicked the pancake buttons and downloaded two .xo files and put them
on my hard disk where I usually store the attachments friends and colleagues
send me.


Scenario 2:

A colleague has mentioned Sugar to me, talking about the OLPC project.
I have a Mac for ease of use and I never see a text screen. I visit
www.sugarlabs.org and after reading the "teachers" section with interest, I
return to the homepage and click on "Try Sugar with a child today", arriving
on the page that advises how to install for each system; I click on the
Apple icon. The boot helper instructions seem complicated, but I find the
VirtualBox OSX installation instructions and get Sugar running. I'm
intrigued by the Activities and want to know if there are more, so I switch
to my browser in the other window, return to the Sugar Labs site and find a
very interesting-looking Activity in the website's Activities section. I
click the pancake button and download the .xo file to the Mac's desktop.


**
Questions:

1) what are the teachers' next step? Would the procedures be different for
these two scenarii?
* No instructions I could locate on activities.sugarlabs.org :-(
* In the wiki section, I eventually located Activity Library and found a
page called End Users, but two of the three pages are blank and the other
one talks about a sandbox...
* The search engine doesn't help either, there are lots of documents found
but none give advice about how to add an Activity or update to a more recent
one.

2) I think we are assuming Activity installation from within Browse under
Sugar, but that method may be too much to assume for a newbie or for someone
with no net connectivity with Sugar... "automatic" if connected though I
don't remember if a new Activity arrives in the list view or is a
favorite... we need to communicate what to expect in that case

3) Someone told me how to add an Activity by placing the .xo bundle in a
directory... but I can't find the mail :-( and CLI manipulations daunting
for many ordinary users

4) If I remember correctly, a collaborative Activity set to public sharing
is pushed out over the network to other Sugar machines. Are those machines
permanently updated with more recent versions, or installed if new versions,
or merely "borrowed" during the session?

5) if there is a problem, is it possible to roll back to the previous
version of an Activity?

**

any info appreciated.

The Marketing Team can help write installation tips copy if necessary.

thanks

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a newname for our "users"

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Bigs and Littles?

-Kathy

  _

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.
org] On Behalf Of Caroline Meeks
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:35 PM
To: Sean DALY
Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a
newname for our "users"


Another thought is Kid and Grown-Up.  If we called our users Kids it would
emphasis that we are always thinking about our age range when we work on
Sugar.  We are building a tool especially for kids and the grownups
(teachers, parents etc.) who help them learn.


2009/5/26 Sean DALY 


Sugar, to me, represents the courage of starting from scratch to build
the best learning environment for kids there is. With the associated
risks - of being different, being in unfamiliar territory, doing
things in untraditional ways.

I can't bring myself to call my kids "users" of Sugar. Yet, a name for
their role when they are doing/making Sugar is appropriate... they
have a place, they have a colored symbol of themselves... a shared
experience with others who are there to do something very similar.

We find it normal to class people by what they do: "Chess players
practice openings." "Knitters often prefer purl stitching."
"Bicyclists often wear bright colors to be more visible." In each of
these cases, the role of the person is in some way defined by the
necessary objects - Chess players with a chessboard and pieces (and
usually another chess player), knitters with needles and yarn,
bicyclists with their bikes. It's obvious that these labels are
reductive, but what is gained is that they are precise - they are
descriptive in a way "users" can't be, it's too generic.

The idea behind "users" is to be all-inclusive, since computers are
general-purpose data processing machines. I would submit that Sugar is
a special case because its "users" are children... and I appreciate
Jonas when he says that we grownups don't need our roles to fit into
traditional descriptors either. That's outside-the-box thinking in my
view.

To Eben - on the contrary, I think it's important to publicly
complement our Activities (capital A since collaborative applications
specific to Sugar) with Learners (capital L since users with a role
specific to Sugar). I don't think this nomenclature will confuse
anyone, but instead clarify Sugar's positioning and differentiation.
Teachers will understand it right away I think.

Sean








On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote:
>>Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff.  'User' is a
>>familiar nuisance.  'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some
>>people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and
>>are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others.
>
> I really like the term "Learners".  It indicates awareness - active
> participation.  The term "Users" to me is more related to "Consumers"
> (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world).
>
> I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and
> Learners.  But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not
> Users either :-P
>
> I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner.  I
> consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a
> Sugar Distributor.
>
>
> Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it "Authors" instead of
> "Developers".  Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite
> unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code
> Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content
> Writers/Composers/Illustrators.
>
>
> Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators →
> Learners
>
> (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( )
>
> ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes
> Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>  - Jonas
>
> - --
> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
> * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>
>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj
> qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI
> =+yH1
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
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--
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax

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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 14, Issue 58

[Kathy Pusztavari]

James,

I'm curious.  Can't it be as simple as putting books on memory or a
thumbdrive and having a program find the books locally and let you pick from
that list?  Like MS Reader searching for .lit books or Peanut Reader
(whatever it is called today) searching for .pdb files and creating a
library list for you?

-Kathy 

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of James Simmons
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:52 AM
To: Carol Farlow Lerche; Caroline Meeks
Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 14, Issue 58

Carol and Caroline,

I'm working on something that should communicate just how useful Sugar is
for reading ebooks, but you'll need to be patient.  I'm about 90% complete
on this, which in IT parlance means I have enough to do a rigged demo but
the bulk of the work remains to be done.  What I am doing is a new feature
for Read Etexts which lets the user browse the offline catalog for Project
Gutenberg, select a book from it, download it, and read it.  This
accomplishes several really useful things:

1).  You can download and save multiple books to the Journal in one session
by using the "keep" button.  So for instance if you want to read "A Thousand
Nights and a Night" as translated by Sir Richard Burton you could get all of
the volumes in one go.

2).  The Journal title will be a meaningful name taken from the catalog.
Thus your download of "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carrol"
will have a Journal entry with that title, instead of "11.zip", which is the
filename in the Gutenberg archive.

3). Since Read Etexts is actually creating the Journal entry the entry will
use the Read Etexts icon and can be opened from the Journal with one click.
No more opening your book with Etoys by mistake.

4).  The biggest thing, though, is you can enter in words in the title or
the author's name and see a list of books that have all of those words in
them.  This really communicates that there are over twenty eight thousand
books available in the Gutenberg catalog.  For instance, a child entering
the word "Shakespeare" will find books about Shakespeare and all of
Shakespeare's plays in several languages.  (He will not find Raphael
Holinshed's Chronicles or Plutarch's Lives in the list, but if he reads all
the other books and plays he'll eventually realize he needs to read those
too).

To see a screenshot from the rigged demo go to this URL and click on the
thumbnail:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Read_Etexts#Planned_Features

It's going to take awhile to get the feature fully functional and user
friendly, but I have enough working that I know I can get the rest finished
in a few weeks.

I think this will communicate the variety of ebooks available very well and
should be a worthy addition to SoaS.

As for some of the other ideas that were expressed, the Sword Bible reader
and the Koran reader and the Newbery  book bundle might give the impression
that to read a book on Sugar you need to package it up somehow.  You need to
communicate that there are thousands of books ready to go, as is, and these
don't do that.  (I have nothing against the content of these books, of
course).

Unfortunately, Project Gutenberg may be the only ebook site with an offline
catalog.  It would be nice to give the core Read Activity a catalog search
like this, but there are no comparable catalogs of PDFs.  
Maybe Sayamindu's fbreader could use something like this for EPUB files from
Gutenberg.

James Simmons

> Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:42:33 -0700
> From: Carol Farlow Lerche 
> Subject: Re: [IAEP] The eBook "ah ha" moment for Sugar on a Stick
> To: Caroline Meeks 
> Cc: iaep 
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> This issue was discussed at length about a week ago, and James Simmons 
> and Alexei (I think) were discussing the provision of a library 
> activity.  Until that happens, I think James' reader activity and 
> Sayamendu's fbreader activity should be packaged for SOAS to allow 
> epub, comic format and text formats to be read conveniently in SOAS.
>
> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/search?q=newbery&cat=all
>
> is a package on aslo of all the free Newbery honor books by women 
> authors as a .xol package.  The texts themselves are epub format. I 
> wish someone would reinstate the ability to access .xol files in SOAS.

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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2009-05-11

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Walter, how does one report problems with Soas - directly to Sebastian
Dziallas or is there a place for that?  If to Sebastian, what is the email
address?
 
-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Walter Bender
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 8:40 AM
To: community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org
Cc: iaep; sugar List
Subject: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2009-05-11

===Sugar Digest ===

The discussion about pedagogy on the IAEP list intensified this week.
My takeaway from the discussion is that while we won't (and don't need
to) reach consensus about "one right way" to teach, we must have consensus
around our goals as a community or our efforts will become too diffuse to be
of any practical use; we are not engaged in an academic exercise-we are
touching the lives of real children on a global scale. Indeed, the primary
reason we spun One Laptop per Child from MIT (and Sugar Labs from One Laptop
per Child) is because we intend to deliver "things to think with" to
learners everywhere.

As a community, we have consensus that Sugar and Sugar activities should be
freely and readily available to learners everywhere. This would suggest that
the developer community continues to strive to make it "simple" to create
and share Sugar activities and its efforts to create versions of Sugar that
run on multiple operating systems and on multiple hardware platforms.

But what is Sugar? At one level, Sugar is an API that provides a unified
framework for activity developers to support collaboration, reflection, and
sharing in their programs. But those features were chosen with a purpose: to
encourage learners to engage in authentic problem-solving and a critical
dialogue about whatever problem in which they are engaged. This engaged,
learners will develop skills that help them in all aspects of life.

Sometimes that dialog is with your peers, sometimes it is with a teacher or
mentor. Sometimes it is open-ended and sometimes it is within the context of
structured instruction. In every case, it involves expressing, debugging,
critiquing, and reflecting. In every case, it is enhanced by "the hard
things to learn", Alan Kay's "non-universals", e.g., reading and writing;
deductive abstract mathematics; model-based science; etc.

The culture of FLOSS, with its emphasis on ''en plein air'' debugging and
critique, is part of our pedagogy. Sugar embodies the message that everyone
has an opportunity and responsibility to contribute to our knowledge
commons. That contribution need not be Python code. Members of the Sugar
community must:

* explore, share, evaluate, and debate best practices;
* provide technical and pedagogical support; and
* create new learning activities and pedagogical practice.



Roland Gesthuizen has a concrete set of suggestions for teacher
participation in our community:

* report back issues that make using the Sugar interface difficult when used
it in the classroom (collaborate)
* develop and share lessons built around applications that work on Sugar
(curriculum)
* share by word of mouth, blog and twitter with colleagues that we are using
Sugar (communication)
* ask deep and hard questions about the learning that goes on when students
use Sugar (pedagogy)
* work to answer these questions (research)
* and more...

===Help Wanted===

In the run up to the June Beta release of Sugar on a Stick, Sebastian
Dziallas has asked for help with testing all of the activities being
considered for inclusion. We'd like to be more thorough in finding any
problems so that we can be sure to address them in time for the final
release in September/October.

===In the community===

The OLPC France Sugar Camp meeting will be held in Paris on May 16 (See
http://sugarcamp.eventbrite.com/).

There will also be a Sugar meeting on the 17th (See
Marketing_Team/Events/MiniCamp_Paris_2009).

A team of Babson College management students will be working with Sugar Labs
beginning this fall as part of a Management Consulting Field Experience
(MCFE) Program.

===Tech Talk===

Christian Schmidt led a Design Team meeting this weekend that covered topics
such as improvements to the Home View, a clock extension on the Frame;
support for printing within Sugar; a global strategy for keyboard shortcuts;
and a global dictionary (See
http://meeting.laptop.org/sugar-meeting.log.20090509_1013.html).

The Food Force team has a new release and is looking for feedback (Download
the .xo bundle from http://code.google.com/p/foodforce/downloads/list).

===Sugar Labs ===

Gary Martin has generated a SOM from the past week of discussion on the IAEP
mailing list (Please see [[Image:2009-May-2-8-som.jpg]]). It is worth a
close look this week.

-walter

--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] versus, not

[Kathy Pusztavari]

"DI works up to a point for appropriate subject matter. The point at which
it fails to work adequately, regardless of subject matter, is in the
development of the learner's ability to learn without further instruction."

Wow, do you have evidence of that?  I mean, are you saying that Project
Follow Through was a billion dollar scam with tens of thousands of unwitting
students in the research group?

To this day, I fight the myth that Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) creates
robots when used with children with autism.  Teachers look at my son and
actually tell me to my face, wow, he certain doesn't have robot like issues.
This is because in an early behavior program, youngsters with autism often
don't even know how to copy your words or actions.  But you build up from
there.  You move up to identifying things.  Then identifying features and
functions.  Then answering and asking questions. 

Just because everything is broken down in DI (much like my ABA example
above) doesn't mean that they can't be built up into very, very complex
ideas, skills, and knowledge.  With basic skills and knowledge, these kids
now have the tools to generalize.  In fact, if you look at kids with autism,
they are a wonderful test group.  They are often unmotivated to learn.  Not
succeeding really turns them off to learning.  These kids aren't necessarily
mentally retarded, just very unmotivated.  Yet DI seems to work with them.
I'm not the only one who thinks kids with autism are a good canary in the
coal mine, so did BF Skinner when he wrote "Verbal Behavior" - essentially
how to teach communication.  Just because I use kids with autism as examples
doesn't mean this information doesn't transfer to typical kids - it really
does - just at an earlier age.

-Kathy "I don't think so" Pusztavari 

-Original Message-
From: Edward Cherlin [mailto:echer...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 3:46 PM
To: Albert Cahalan
Cc: solutiongr...@gmail.com; ka...@kathyandcalvin.com; iaep
Subject: Re: [IAEP] versus, not

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:31 AM, Albert Cahalan  wrote:
> Around here
> it often seems I'm the only person willing to accept that the 
> independently reviewed evidence favors Direct Instruction. It's like 
> some kind of idealistic reality denial is going on.

By no means, Albert. You are the only person insisting that DI works, and
everything else doesn't. It's like some kind of Nominalist reality denial is
going on. ^_^

You argue in precisely the manner of the British ship captain who conducted
the _second_ clinical trial of orange juice against scurvy, after the
successful first trial. He had the juice boiled down "to concentrate the
active ingredient" (thus decomposing all of the Vitamin C/ascorbic acid).
His vigorous use of his tainted study held back adoption of citrus in the
British Navy for years, and killed a significant number of sailors. The fact
that _you_ don't know how to use a method fails to make that method
worthless.

DI works up to a point for appropriate subject matter. The point at which it
fails to work adequately, regardless of subject matter, is in the
development of the learner's ability to learn without further instruction.
--
Silent Thunder (??/???/? ?) is my name And Children
are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)

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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] versus, not

[Kathy Pusztavari]

David,

Do you have any good links for those of us just starting?  Links that would
answer how to install python, how to interface with sugar from a different
platform (XP, Mac), sugar specific issues in developing activities in
python?

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of David Farning
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 12:22 PM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: iaep
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] versus, not

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Kathy Pusztavari 
wrote:
> I'll have to admit I don't have much right to request, complain, or 
> even discuss.  If I don't get off my butt and program something myself 
> then I'm part of the problem.
>
> But I'll tell you, it is difficult to start in this programming 
> environment where the learning curve is extremely steep (coming from 
> Oracle and PL/SQL stored procedures).  I'm still trying to figure out 
> WHERE to start playing with Python let alone how.

Kathy,
Developer documentation is currently a huge hole for Sugar Labs.  So, if you
are interested in contributing that would be a great place to start.

david

> -Kathy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org 
> [mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Walter Bender
> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:26 AM
> To: Bill Kerr
> Cc: iaep; Sugar-dev Devel
> Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] versus, not
>
> One of the real pleasures of this adventure we are on is that there 
> has been thoughtful criticism of ideas. I cannot get away with vague 
> or sloppy thinking.
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Bill Kerr  wrote:
>> I'm not sure what is meant by a "big tent"
>>
>> Why do some people want a big tent for learning theory but not a big 
>> tent which accepts both FOSS and proprietary software? Phrasing it 
>> that way is intended to encourage people to think about what sort of 
>> thing is learning and hopefully will not be interpreted as just being 
>> provocative for its own sake.
>
> FOSS is a theory of learning. We don't need to reach consensus about 
> either learning theory or FOSS, but to be members of this community, 
> we must agree that we can progress from critique to making positive
changes.
>
>> you can have a big tent where people don't discuss learning theory 
>> because it's too hard to reach agreement
>>
>> you can have a big tent where people passionately argue about 
>> learning theory but actually listen to what each is saying and argue 
>> rationally
>>
>> when I look at minsky's theory of mind I see that he supports 
>> multiple models of thinking but also argues against models of 
>> thinking that he thinks are incorrect or which emphasise only one way 
>> of doing things, eg. although he helped create connectionism he now 
>> thinks it has too much influence
>
> As Martin points out, Sugar Labs is building tools. But we are not 
> agnostic about how they are used. We are deliberately building 
> affordances into our tools to encourage and promote learning 
> activities that are "C" in their nature, because we believe that that 
> is the principle means by which learners will reach a level of fluency 
> as described by Alan. But the tools can be used in support of other 
> learning theories and, to rephrase Minsky, "if you don't learn something
more than one way, you don't learn it."
>
>> that suggests another version of a big tent which I favour - cherry 
>> picking the best parts out of different learning theories / 
>> activities based on criteria (not stated here) that are substantial
>
> I wear an engineer's hat: "What is the best solution I can build 
> today?" not a scientist's hat: "What is the best possible solution?"
> Ergo, +1 for cherry picking.
>
>>
>> I don't believe that thinking people are agnostic about how people 
>> learn
>>
>> it seems to me that alan kay has presented a possibly strategic view 
>> of progress on these questions (that learning about bricks will not 
>> automatically lead to building arches, that we need more than just 
>> focusing on building blocks) - but that for various reasons we are 
>> not in a position to implement the learning materials based on that 
>> view in practice in the activities
>>
>> for me to sit in the big tent holding a strategic view feels 
>> different to "too hard basket", agnosticism or a tower of babble - 
>> teaching with an underlying strategic view is very different to just 
>> going along with the tide
>
> The a

Re: [IAEP] versus, not

[Kathy Pusztavari]

I understood Walter but added that part myself ;)  For myself, and myself
only, I personally don't want to ask for stuff or even request to be heard
if I don't put the work in - get my hands dirty, etc.

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Bert Freudenberg
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 7:25 AM
To: IAEP SugarLabs
Subject: Re: [IAEP] versus, not

On 08.05.2009, at 16:05, Kathy Pusztavari wrote:

> I'll have to admit I don't have much right to request, complain, or 
> even discuss.  If I don't get off my butt and program something myself 
> then I'm part of the problem.

I think you misunderstood Walter. You can earn community credit not only by
coding. Many more things need "doing". Not to discourage you from
programming, of course, but other skills and contributions are more than
welcome, too. Its An Education Project, right? :)

- Bert -

>
> But I'll tell you, it is difficult to start in this programming 
> environment where the learning curve is extremely steep (coming from 
> Oracle and PL/SQL stored procedures).  I'm still trying to figure out 
> WHERE to start playing with Python let alone how.
>
> -Kathy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Walter Bender
> We must engage teachers and learners even if we do not have  
> consensus on all
> aspects of learning theories, FOSS, or Sugar. Without the  
> engagement, we
> don't grow. Even more important, without the engagement, we don't  
> learn.
> That doesn't mean we don't have opinions or direction.
>
> We have a long ways to go and we need to keep debating as we go. But  
> also we
> need to continue "doing". And always be asking "Are there other ways  
> to
> approach this?" and "How might we make this better?"



___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] versus, not

[Kathy Pusztavari]

I'll have to admit I don't have much right to request, complain, or even
discuss.  If I don't get off my butt and program something myself then I'm
part of the problem.

But I'll tell you, it is difficult to start in this programming environment
where the learning curve is extremely steep (coming from Oracle and PL/SQL
stored procedures).  I'm still trying to figure out WHERE to start playing
with Python let alone how.

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Walter Bender
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:26 AM
To: Bill Kerr
Cc: iaep; Sugar-dev Devel
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] versus, not

One of the real pleasures of this adventure we are on is that there has been
thoughtful criticism of ideas. I cannot get away with vague or sloppy
thinking.

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Bill Kerr  wrote:
> I'm not sure what is meant by a "big tent"
>
> Why do some people want a big tent for learning theory but not a big 
> tent which accepts both FOSS and proprietary software? Phrasing it 
> that way is intended to encourage people to think about what sort of 
> thing is learning and hopefully will not be interpreted as just being 
> provocative for its own sake.

FOSS is a theory of learning. We don't need to reach consensus about either
learning theory or FOSS, but to be members of this community, we must agree
that we can progress from critique to making positive changes.

> you can have a big tent where people don't discuss learning theory 
> because it's too hard to reach agreement
>
> you can have a big tent where people passionately argue about learning 
> theory but actually listen to what each is saying and argue rationally
>
> when I look at minsky's theory of mind I see that he supports multiple 
> models of thinking but also argues against models of thinking that he 
> thinks are incorrect or which emphasise only one way of doing things, 
> eg. although he helped create connectionism he now thinks it has too 
> much influence

As Martin points out, Sugar Labs is building tools. But we are not agnostic
about how they are used. We are deliberately building affordances into our
tools to encourage and promote learning activities that are "C" in their
nature, because we believe that that is the principle means by which
learners will reach a level of fluency as described by Alan. But the tools
can be used in support of other learning theories and, to rephrase Minsky,
"if you don't learn something more than one way, you don't learn it."

> that suggests another version of a big tent which I favour - cherry 
> picking the best parts out of different learning theories / activities 
> based on criteria (not stated here) that are substantial

I wear an engineer's hat: "What is the best solution I can build today?" not
a scientist's hat: "What is the best possible solution?"
Ergo, +1 for cherry picking.

>
> I don't believe that thinking people are agnostic about how people 
> learn
>
> it seems to me that alan kay has presented a possibly strategic view 
> of progress on these questions (that learning about bricks will not 
> automatically lead to building arches, that we need more than just 
> focusing on building blocks) - but that for various reasons we are not 
> in a position to implement the learning materials based on that view 
> in practice in the activities
>
> for me to sit in the big tent holding a strategic view feels different 
> to "too hard basket", agnosticism or a tower of babble - teaching with 
> an underlying strategic view is very different to just going along 
> with the tide

The analogy to "big tent" perhaps needs more of an explanation for those not
living day-to-day in earshot of the US political dialog.
Republican President Ronald Reagan referred to his party as a big tent in
the days of his popular majority. The current party is being accused of (or
admired for) being more fundamentalist in its ideology; this "either your
are with us or against us" approach has arguably resulted in a greatly
contracted constituency: there are more people who identify themselves as
Independents than as Republicans. As a result, it is being asserted both
from within and without that the Republicans have excluded themselves from
the debate.

We must engage teachers and learners even if we do not have consensus on all
aspects of learning theories, FOSS, or Sugar. Without the engagement, we
don't grow. Even more important, without the engagement, we don't learn.
That doesn't mean we don't have opinions or direction.

>
> that would mean work to understand and implement that strategic view 
> but also accept that we are not there yet (it will take some time) and 
> so it is perfectably understandable and desirable that people will use 
> and develop whatever is at hand or which they think important to 
> develop - no one can stop that anyway accept by successful arguing 
> someone out of a POV

We have a long ways to go

Re: [IAEP] versus, not

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Those SRA reading instruction boxes were not Direct Instruction.  I hear
about those things all the time - my ex-husband learned that way, too.  Sig
Engelmann is behind Direct Instruction.
 
I think that at some point things will merge, morph, combine.  What will
emerge is not something I've probably ever seen before or could dream of.
It will be field tested and our little Sugar interface (thru somethink like
Journal) will collect data so that the instruction can be improved - even if
it is a game.  [Goodness, if only Pajama Sam & Freddie Fish could be more
educational (I love those games!).]
 
I'm hoping that we can also, at some point, look at current proprietary
content and morph several pieces of content into a public domain like
situation.  This knowledge (preschool through, say, 6th or 8th grade) is not
rocket science here.  It really feels like we are inventing the wheel, fire,
forks, and everything else again and again and again.  You should see some
of these teachers putting together their science curriculum.  A little from
here.  A little from there.  The time they put in is, honestly, a waste.  No
wonder they get burned out.  And what they put together?  Certainly not
field tested.
 
1. We could support proprietry content at some point.
*I wish it were free already.

2. Martin pointed out to me that a number of countries have noticed that in
the end the government ends up paying for all the content one 
way or another and they are exploring paying directly for writing the
content and free licences.
*Sadly, the grip that the textbook industrial complex has on the US - I
wonder if we'll ever participate.

3. Improved authoring tools and other automation tools might reduce the
level of effort required to create this content.
*Yes, this will be key.  I really liked some of the ideas that Albert
Cahalan put forth - even if I didn't fully understand them.  I'd love to
hear more of his ideas (hint, hint, prod, prod, wink, wink).
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Caroline Meeks
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 7:10 PM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: iaep
Subject: Re: [IAEP] versus, not




On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Kathy Pusztavari 
wrote:


Bill, there is a difference between direct instruction and Direct
Instruction.  The latter (big D big I) is usually based on SRA's products
and outlined in the Direct Instruction Rubric.  Direct instruction (little d
little i) is usually a general set of guidelines teachers use to directly
instruction - to be a sage on the stage, to teach directly, to teach first
then...
 
I am only frustrated by SRA themselves.  The products are great and would be
extremely useful in teaching but they have a copyright stranglehold.  If
only I was an attorney and knew how to legally get around that  Or if I
could find the millions (billions?) to buy it for public domain use.  I'm
telling you, people would have a fountain of curriculum they could use,
morph, etc.


Kathy, I know SRA is calling this Direct Instruction, but I wonder if we
should be.  When I think of direct instruction, I think of the teacher
standing in front of the class explaining, which by the way, I think is
sometimes appropriate.  However, when I read SRA;s materials, and certainly
my memory of using SRA, involve a lot of time on structured tasks and
relatively little time with the teacher directly instructing.  Your
experience is way more recent, what do you find?

I actually remember SRA fondly from my own 2nd grade experience. We had
boxes of SRA material, all leveled and you worked through the levels at your
own pace.  Because of the way they step up the difficulty and the fact I
could set my own pace I think I had good "flow" experiences with the
program.  I think it was a good match for my learning style.

I was reminded of that experience when I tried out a cognative tutor program
in one of my classes.  Cognative tutors are programs that take kids through
lots of problems, measuring mastery and giving hints as requested.   This is
a comercial product example of this sort of program:
http://www.carnegielearning.com/

I agree with the big tent. We need to teach lots of different people, with
lots of different learning styles, lots of different things.

I think well thought out programs that step you through learning with early
and often error correction can be effective.  

Right now the level of skilled and unified effort to create this sort of
content and out economic structures have resulted in this type of content,
both on paper and in terms of computer programs, being proprietary.   I
don't think that means we should dismiss this for Sugar in the longer term.

1. We could support proprietry content at some point.
2. Martin pointed out to me that a number of countries have noticed that in
the end the government ends up paying for all the content one way or another

Re: [IAEP] versus, not

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Listen, I don't want to argue with Alan Kay.  Obviously I'm not as smart nor
have I been at it as long as him (I googled him and watched 3 different
videos - amazing!).  My job is to set the record straight.
 
1. "Tim Gallwey is one of the best teachers I've ever observed, and he had a
number of extremely effective techniques to help his students learn the real
deal very quickly (and almost none of these were direct instruction..."  
 
I would be willing to bet $10 (I'm cheap, alright?) that Mr. Gallwey has
used the principles of Direct Instruction to teach.  I'd love to see Mr
Gallwey teach a child with autism, developmental disability, or
speech/communication issue how to talk, ask questions, etc. without Direct
Instruction/Applied Behavior Analysis.  About 1-3% of the educational
students have serious learning issues and about 17% have undiagnosed
"learning disabilities" that make these students fail in current
constructionist educational system.  In all, there are an average of 13%
students in special ed, some of which are there simply because they can't
read. 
 
2. "At levels below these two, we are talking about areas of study that are
neither about literacy nor about mathematics, but something else. The
something else could be useful (for example, reading street signs and goods
in stores, or adding up simple sums)."
 
I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense.  Below heady levels of learning ARE the
basics - arithmetic and literacy (learning to read).
 
3. " However, part of the real deal is being able to *do* the pursuits, not
just know something about them..."
 
Direct Instruction and Applied Behavior Analysis actually require the
ability to generalize what you have learned to new situations.  The do not
preclude activities to generalize concepts.  Often, however, activities are
foregone due to time constraints - which is unfortunate.
 
If students are not generalizing, the "Analysis" part should indicate
"ooops, I messed up as a teacher."  I've done it myself when my son's
therapists realized (to their surprise) that he forgot the meaning of bigger
and smaller.  The items used to teach these concepts were limited to one
exemplar and it did not get generalized.  We then moved the program to a
more natural environment (think Helen Keller going around and touching
things in the room) and voila, the problem was solved.
 
4. "My main complaint about most schooling processes whether official or
grassroots is that for a wide variety of reasons they settle for the
"something else" rather than try to find ways to help the students learn the
real deals."
 
Yes, and watching kids struggle in class, say they are stupid, practice
avoidance behavior due curriculum and teacher aversions is NO FUN.  It is
easily solvable by putting kids in appropriate curriculum that lets them
succeed.  I saw it with my fourth graders (and some fifth) more times than I
care to admit in a short 12 week period.  It was very sad so see 2 out of 24
of my fourth grade students completely, 100%, illiterate and about 20%
illiterate enough to be unable to comprehend what they were reading.  And
this was at the most elite school in the town.
 
I'm not religious about DI but I have to fight for it everywhere to simply
be considered, included, or even considered as an option.  In my state,
constructivism is so rampant that when I mention DI I get treated like the
red headed step child.  And so does the option of Direct Instruction
because, you see, the dirty little secret is that DI is not really an option
at all.
 
-Kathy


  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Alan Kay
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 6:27 AM
To: Bill Kerr; Walter Bender
Cc: iaep; Sugar-dev Devel; community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] versus, not


My take on this over the years has excluded labels and categories for a
variety of reasons.

But I do think thresholds are important for most areas of learning. For
example, at what level would an actually literate person consider a high
school graduate to be fluent in literate actions and thinking? At what level
would a mathematician consider a high school graduate fluent in mathematical
actions and thinking? This is very different from asking questions about the
level that a professional would need to attain. At levels below these two,
we are talking about areas of study that are neither about literacy nor
about mathematics, but something else. The something else could be useful
(for example, reading street signs and goods in stores, or adding up simple
sums).

My main complaint about most schooling processes whether official or
grassroots is that for a wide variety of reasons they settle for the
"something else" rather than try to find ways to help the students learn the
real deals.

If the real deals are chosen, then the interesting question is what kinds of
processes will work for what kinds of learners? If it is some non-trivial
percentage of direc

Re: [IAEP] versus, not

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Bill, there is a difference between direct instruction and Direct
Instruction.  The latter (big D big I) is usually based on SRA's products
and outlined in the Direct Instruction Rubric.  Direct instruction (little d
little i) is usually a general set of guidelines teachers use to directly
instruction - to be a sage on the stage, to teach directly, to teach first
then...
 
I am only frustrated by SRA themselves.  The products are great and would be
extremely useful in teaching but they have a copyright stranglehold.  If
only I was an attorney and knew how to legally get around that  Or if I
could find the millions (billions?) to buy it for public domain use.  I'm
telling you, people would have a fountain of curriculum they could use,
morph, etc.
 
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Bill Kerr
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:47 PM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: iaep
Subject: Re: [IAEP] versus, not


Kathy,

I haven't read the books you cite but I do as a teacher frequently use
direct instruction.  That was strongly implied in my initial post.
Nevertheless, I'm sure I could do it better. When I read your response my
first thought was that you had not read my post carefully.

btw this discussion does mirror an earlier one b/w Patrick Suppes and
Seymour Papert - well covered in Papert's 'The Childrens Machine' and
Cynthia Solomon's 'Computer Environments for Children' 

Both Suppes and Papert argued that computers could improve education but in
different ways. Cynthia Solomon found that there was a greater need for
direct instruction approaches in disadvantaged areas. But that did not make
her a DI only advocate. My own experience in teaching in disadvantaged
schools for the past dozen years is consistent with that.


On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Kathy Pusztavari 
wrote:


"eg. I would see direct instruction as a must for autistic children but
don't see that it follows as a general model for all education "
 
The problem is that at least 20% of our kids in the US qualify as either
special ed or learning disabled in some form.  So you would be leaving out
about 20% of the population (especially when teaching reading and math).
 
Math can be improved greatly through Direct Instruction.  If you have not
taught Connecting Math Concepts and other non-DI curriculum, I would like to
know why you would say such a thing.  DI would make most, if not all kids
LIKE math at the early levels (Kindergarten - 8th grade).  It makes them
succeed because it is mastery based.  If you want to see brilliant
curriculum development, you should look at SRA DISTAR I & II, Connecting
Math Concepts (A-F) and Essentials for Algebra.  
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Bill Kerr
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 5:21 PM
To: Walter Bender
Cc: iaep; Sugar-dev Devel; community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: [IAEP] versus, not


On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Walter Bender 
wrote:


===Sugar Digest===

I encourage you to join two threads on the Education List this week:
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005382.html, which
has boiled down to an instruction vs construction debate; and
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005342.html, which
has boiled down to a debate of catering to local culture vs the
Enlightenment. I encourage you to join these discussions.


Agree that these are important discussions 

Need to be careful about the use of the versus depiction of these
discussions IMO, this tempting shorthand can create the wrong impression

eg. I would see direct instruction as a must for autistic children but don't
see that it follows as a general model for all education (special needs are
special) or that we should even think it is possible to have a correct
general model. I don't think there is one and good teachers swap between
multiple models all the time.

no one on this list has argued overtly against  "the enlightenment" or that
local culture ought not to be taken into account, eg. Ties said "think
practical", the response was of the nature that our context demands we do 

however, I do think the roll back of enlightenment principles is not well
understood (http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/nonUniversals) and that a
better understanding might persuade more people of the need to keep
searching and struggling for different ways to go against some of  the tide
of local culture - there is a recent interesting comment thread on mark
guzdial's blog which is worth reading from this point of view
http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK3F4TMBURELZZK 




___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] educational brew

[Kathy Pusztavari]

"You could set up '4th grade math for Massachusetts' as a list of things to
master. It's quite similar to setting up a Makefile with a target that
exists purely to have a list of prerequisites." 

Albert - that is exactly what I was referring to.  A set of curriculum to
get you started but a good teacher could then go in and adapt the files or
make file for their standards (or find a local nerd to help).  I referred to
Turtle Typing.  Being a linux numbskull, I accidentally ran the MAKEFILE and
found out that it seeds your lessons.  Honestly, I had heard of MAKEFILE but
I didn't know what it did.  I threw those lessons into a temp folder and
replaced them all with my lessons.  I'm pretty good at cut and paste so the
5 lessons became 30 lessons and I only got started!  The lessons were
.lesson files written in python format so you have to figure out what format
and data the file needs to run the program the way you want.  I'll have to
be honest, when I saw Turtle Typing - that is when I figured out how
powerful activities can be for sugar.  I was able to use sugar to actually
do something important that - honestly - no other program could do.  Teach
typing at a level my son could actually succeed.

I might be slow but I get there eventually.

-Kathy
-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Albert Cahalan
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 2:04 AM
To: ka...@kathyandcalvin.com; costello.ro...@edumail.vic.gov.au; Bill Kerr;
iaep
Subject: Re: [IAEP] educational brew

Costello, Rob R writes:

> most teachers that i know want to know that any 'innovation'
> 'addresses the curriculum'
...
> but this won't overturn the inertia in traditional curriculum content

To a teacher, is curriculum the raw state/national standard or is it instead
the content of the particular textbook that the school uses?

In any case, you're up against a compatibility issue. Students will
transfer, sometimes during the school year, and hopefully graduate.
An oddball school does a disservice to the students.

> for example i can see no maths curriculum in the world (i've been 
> looking at lots of them in detail recently) that is doing much more 
> than including a few references to recursion or iteration...
> (there was more 'programming' in my year 12 course in 1985)

Which other math would you eliminate to make room for this, and what will
happen to the students if they transfer or graduate without knowing that
other math?

BTW, though I like computer science too, this stuff isn't that useful.

> i also fully agree with Kathy that personalisation can mean software 
> intelligently adapts the sequence of lessons...
> i've seen that in action as well

I've been thinking about this. It's really valuable, though not so easy to
implement. Let's take 4th grade math as an example:
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Math4Team/Resources/Curriculum_Chart

Suppose you wrote up lessons for all those. You'd get a lot of overlap with
the California standard, the Iowa standard, etc.
The overlap becomes severe if you add the rest of the grades.
Imagine having lessons to cover all standards.

To benefit from a given lesson, one must master any prerequisites.
This should remind you of building software with the "make" program or
perhaps installing software from RPM packages. Leaving aside the minor issue
of review, there is no point to presenting students with old lessons.
Leaving aside the minor issue of "testing out", there is no point to
presenting students with lessons that they have not prepared for.

You could set up "4th grade math for Massachusetts" as a list of things to
master. It's quite similar to setting up a Makefile with a target that
exists purely to have a list of prerequisites.
This target becomes a goal to reach. Once the goal is chosen, the software
supplies lessons as required to reach it. When more than one lesson would be
appropriate, allowing student choice could help to keep the student in a
good mood for learning.

Sadly, a real-world system would also need to provide distraction for the
students who are at risk for completing the grade before the end of the
year. Traditional schools don't tolerate that well.

> i know traditional curriculum can get suffocating and dry ..

Of course, dealing with "suffocating and dry" stuff is a valuable life
skill. :-/ Sitting down to slog through something boring is not easy for
many people.
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] educational brew

[Kathy Pusztavari]

I think that is a great point, Maria.  The homeschool community, especially
in the US (that I know of), are great at field testing things.  They are a
resource that should not be overlooked as they are able to make use of new
innovation quicker and are unable to afford to be as picky.  They tend to
make use of free quality programs off the internet.

-Kathy 

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Maria Droujkova
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 4:43 AM
To: Bill Kerr
Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; Costello,Rob R
Subject: Re: [IAEP] educational brew

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Bill Kerr  wrote:
> The other thing I should have said about rob's post but didn't was 
> that I pretty much agree with all of it as a description of the 
> reality we face, ie. my experiences of being an innovative teacher are 
> similar enough to what rob describes as to make it pointless to 
> quibble about the differences
>
> my support for the continuation of widespread unreasonable behaviour 
> (in the xo tradition) is based on acceptance of that reality

In my experience, the homeschool community provides a nice space for
meaningfully unreasonable behavior. Especially unschoolers.

Also, consider research restrictions. It takes from several months to half a
year in my county to get all the necessary permissions for an educational
study in public schools, whereas it only takes the internal IRB approval to
work with homescholers.

Families and local communities should not be overlooked as powerful agents
of change.

--
Cheers,
MariaD

Make math your own, to make your own math.

http://www.naturalmath.com social math site
http://groups.google.com/group/naturalmath our email group
http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations
___
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Re: [IAEP] versus, not

[Kathy Pusztavari]

"eg. I would see direct instruction as a must for autistic children but
don't see that it follows as a general model for all education "
 
The problem is that at least 20% of our kids in the US qualify as either
special ed or learning disabled in some form.  So you would be leaving out
about 20% of the population (especially when teaching reading and math).
 
Math can be improved greatly through Direct Instruction.  If you have not
taught Connecting Math Concepts and other non-DI curriculum, I would like to
know why you would say such a thing.  DI would make most, if not all kids
LIKE math at the early levels (Kindergarten - 8th grade).  It makes them
succeed because it is mastery based.  If you want to see brilliant
curriculum development, you should look at SRA DISTAR I & II, Connecting
Math Concepts (A-F) and Essentials for Algebra.  
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Bill Kerr
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 5:21 PM
To: Walter Bender
Cc: iaep; Sugar-dev Devel; community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: [IAEP] versus, not


On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Walter Bender 
wrote:


===Sugar Digest===

I encourage you to join two threads on the Education List this week:
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005382.html, which
has boiled down to an instruction vs construction debate; and
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005342.html, which
has boiled down to a debate of catering to local culture vs the
Enlightenment. I encourage you to join these discussions.


Agree that these are important discussions 

Need to be careful about the use of the versus depiction of these
discussions IMO, this tempting shorthand can create the wrong impression

eg. I would see direct instruction as a must for autistic children but don't
see that it follows as a general model for all education (special needs are
special) or that we should even think it is possible to have a correct
general model. I don't think there is one and good teachers swap between
multiple models all the time.

no one on this list has argued overtly against  "the enlightenment" or that
local culture ought not to be taken into account, eg. Ties said "think
practical", the response was of the nature that our context demands we do 

however, I do think the roll back of enlightenment principles is not well
understood (http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/nonUniversals) and that a
better understanding might persuade more people of the need to keep
searching and struggling for different ways to go against some of  the tide
of local culture - there is a recent interesting comment thread on mark
guzdial's blog which is worth reading from this point of view
http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK3F4TMBURELZZK 







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Re: [IAEP] maths instruction

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Yes Maria, I'm sure you are correct that I'm mixing up pedagogy
(methodology) with framework.  They seem to fit together like hands to
gloves.

That said, Direct Instruction (DI) is also a framework.  It's like Prego -
it's all in there.

In addition, behaviorism, or Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) and DI share
much in common including research bases.  I'm a Board Certified Associate
Behavior Analyst (BCABA) and to take the exam for certification it does have
several questions on Direct Instruction. 
 
I will not teach in the public sector.  I will, however, volunteer or create
a afterschool or summer school program.  I'd love to use sugar (SoaS) to
test some of the activities and do some research.  We need more educational
research even if it is very small.

"'- You are all individuals! - Yes, we are all individuals!'"

Funny.  It took a couple seconds until I got it :)

-Kathy
-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Maria Droujkova
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:04 AM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] maths instruction

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Kathy Pusztavari
 wrote:
> Bloom's Taxonomy reminds me of committees that never get anything done 
> in the Life of Brian.
>
> Direct Instruction reminds me of the people that get in there and get 
> the job done.

Here is how I see these issues. Bloom's Taxonomy is a part of a research and
design framework, and direct instruction is a pedagogical methodology. In
general, frameworks help people analyze and plan, and methodologies help
people to implement ("get things done"). Typically, you need to work with
both methodologies and frameworks for sizable research and development
projects. Depending on the project's goals, you make or choose frameworks
and methodologies suitable to the goals.
Constructivism, in particular, is a group of framework for studying how
people learn. To contrast direct instruction with something, one can choose
a different teaching methodology, for example, the discovery method popular
in the sixties and seventies but not as much anymore, or the Socratic method
still popular in some circles after a couple of millenia.

Relationships between frameworks and methodologies are complex. For example,
one can use constructivist frameworks to study how students learn under
direct instruction methodologies. One can also use behaviorist or
information theory frameworks to study learning under the same
methodologies. It's not a one-to-one correspondence. There is a lot of
confusion about the matter, because people use theories and frameworks not
only for research, but also as ammo in policy wars.
Also, sometimes the same person or group works on developing theories and
methodologies, and they become twined in people's minds through their
authors. In general, relationships between theory and practice are
complicated and often frustrating in education, just as they are in medicine
and other human-centered fields.

The important thing is for everybody to be able to match frameworks and
methodologies to their goals. For example, at some point I made a taxonomy
of computer learning environments focusing specifically on users' power over
representations, because my goals had to do with authoring, and creating
representations is a good measure of authoring. I think it may be of
interest to people here:
http://wikieducator.org/User:MariaDroujkova/UserPower

Life of Brian is wonderful - one of my favorite movies. Very quotable.
"- You are all individuals! - Yes, we are all individuals!" - this could be
used to snark recitation, but I happen to find the technique very useful.

Kathy, congratulations on your license!!! What grades do you plan to teach
next?


--
Cheers,
MariaD

Make math your own, to make your own math.

http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://www.phenixsolutions.com
empowering our innovations ___
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___
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Re: [IAEP] maths instruction

[Kathy Pusztavari]

The problem is that people do not understand Direct Instruction (DI as in
SRA curriculum or curriculum that follows the DI Rubric).  Direct
Instruction INCLUDES lectures (with choral responding to ensure students are
engaged), small groups, activities, projects, etc.  In using Direct
Instruction, students use the information taught immediately, then concepts
are built on top of each other or built to more difficult levels.  In
addition, you don't learn a concept then never see it again - you see it for
a while because you want to maintain learned items.
 
Constructivism wants the child to discover a concept.  Have you seen this in
action?  About 40-60% of the kids don't get it and end up feeling stupid.
And that is why I cried for 2 weeks in my student teaching - I knew these
kids could get it but they were never taught in a way that they could GET
IT.  
 
Is the education system there for:
 
1. The 13-20% that absolutely need well sequenced, explicit instruction
(think special ed)
2. The 40-60% that may not be as motivated, they are not the brightest
bulbs, and/or may require some direct instruction
3. The 20% that can learn if they are put in a closet (AKA Closet Kids).
Very smart - 1 trial learners
 
The reason to computerize is that you are now able to differentiate
instruction.  You can reach all kids at their speed and level.  If you think
about it, it is the best reason to have Sugar used to develop curriculum
rather than just a bunch of activities that are a hit or miss on some
state/country's standards.
 
BTW, I was just informed that the state of Oregon has licensed me as a
pre-school though 8th grade teacher.  Not sure if that is a good thing for
Oregon or not ;)  If you don't know, Oregon is very much so a constructivist
state.  And we have the biggest Direct Instruction conference in the world
here every year.  The irony of it.
 
I'm not against constructivism.  I'm just against it be used as the first
line of teaching.  It allows a teacher to blame the student for not
understanding.  When you do DI, it really is the fault of the teacher for
not helping the student "get it".  
 
DI has a bunch of research based tools to ensure students get it:
 
1. Is the pacing correct (too fast, too slow)
2. Is the sequence correct (don't assume kids have prerequisite knowledge -
ensure your teaching roadmap is valid)
3. Do you have good classroom management where there is no wasted time in
transitions, rules are understood and practiced, and kids feel safe
4. Is the information presented in an interesting way.  Even though we have
scripts, we need to also understand what is being taught & why, the
direction the teaching is going, and how to act or "punch it up"
5. Ensure that students get small bits of teaching in 3-4 various tracks of
information.  In other words, don't spend 1 hour teaching fractions.  Teach
a fraction concept for 10 minutes, work a little on math facts (5 min), work
on estimations (10 min), and one other track.  This is one day's worth of
math.  Mix and match but they thread in a sequencial manner (think roadmap).
 
Well what do you know, computer programs can do all that.
 
-Kathy
 
 

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Caroline Meeks
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:38 AM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] maths instruction


We read a book in my class this semester: "The New Taxonomy of Educational
Objectives" by Marzoano and Kendall.  Its an attempt to update Blooms
Taxonomy.  Lots of good stuff in there but still has a committee feel to it.

However, taxonomy is more about what you teach and pedagogy is about how.  I
really haven't run into anyone who doesn't think there is a "time to teach"
that is some belief in direct instruction.

Right now I'm reading "Studio Learning" and even in art studio classes
direct instruction, lectures and demonstrations, have a role.  The
difference is how the information is tied to student work. In a studio class
you use the information taught immediately.

The more I learn about learning theory the more I see it as mix and match,
not black and white.


On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Kathy Pusztavari
 wrote:


Bloom's Taxonomy reminds me of committees that never get anything done in
the Life of Brian.

Direct Instruction reminds me of the people that get in there and get the
job done.

Here is the Direct Instruction guide:

http://www.zigsite.com/PDFs/rubric.pdf


-----Original Message-
From: Maria Droujkova [mailto:droujk...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:48 AM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org

Subject: Re: [IAEP] maths instruction

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Kathy Pusztavari
 wrote:
> I'm of the direct instruction camp.  If skills and concepts are not
> build upon each 

Re: [IAEP] maths instruction

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Bloom's Taxonomy reminds me of committees that never get anything done in
the Life of Brian.

Direct Instruction reminds me of the people that get in there and get the
job done.

Here is the Direct Instruction guide:

http://www.zigsite.com/PDFs/rubric.pdf

-Original Message-
From: Maria Droujkova [mailto:droujk...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:48 AM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] maths instruction

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Kathy Pusztavari
 wrote:
> I'm of the direct instruction camp.  If skills and concepts are not 
> build upon each other correctly, you will get kids that either learn a 
> concept wrong (then they have to unlearn it) or fail and then feel 
> like they are stupid.  Having a kid with autism, I've seen both.  
> Unfortunately, I've seen both with typical kids or even smart ones under
poor teaching practices.
> This is especially true for teaching reading - Project Follow Through 
> showed that direct instruction was by far the most effective in teaching
period.
>
> What I'm suggesting is taking effective practices and putting them in 
> a computer model.  Using short videos or whatever (flash like 
> animation) to teach concepts.

Strongly systematic approach is a good general principle for sciences and
math. In my mind, the strength of computers is in helping kids tinker,
construct, interact with microworlds and with each other, remix, tag, and
otherwise be active. Learning happens through doing.
Nobody learns anything deeply enough the first time they are exposed;
understanding keeps growing and growing through time, as learners are
ACTIVELY DOING something related to that concept.

In math in particular, you need to have a very healthy balance of all levels
of learning activities (see Bloom's Digital Taxonomy
http://edorigami.wikispaces.com/Bloom%27s+Digital+Taxonomy), which computers
definitely can support. Good math learning software should combine three
things: the ability to create your own mathematical objects in scaffolded
environments (with videos or animations that can be a part of scaffolding);
the ability to share these objects with other learners in your local
community of practice; and tools for connecting these "example spaces" or
"lesson environments" with mathematics at large, including other topics and
past traditions of doing math and other local communities - that is, with
larger communities of mathematical practices.



--
Cheers,
MariaD

Make math your own, to make your own math.

http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://www.phenixsolutions.com
empowering our innovations

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Re: [IAEP] maths instruction

[Kathy Pusztavari]

I'm of the direct instruction camp.  If skills and concepts are not build
upon each other correctly, you will get kids that either learn a concept
wrong (then they have to unlearn it) or fail and then feel like they are
stupid.  Having a kid with autism, I've seen both.  Unfortunately, I've seen
both with typical kids or even smart ones under poor teaching practices.
This is especially true for teaching reading - Project Follow Through showed
that direct instruction was by far the most effective in teaching period.
 
What I'm suggesting is taking effective practices and putting them in a
computer model.  Using short videos or whatever (flash like animation) to
teach concepts.  I'd love to see students answer questions from the computer
and use open source audio to text to ensure the student is following along
and can at least properly use mathematical (or whatever subject) vocabulary.
Verbal feedback also ensures the student is engaged and not just along for
the ride.  All this can be fun, and be presented in a systematic and
sequencial way so as not to lose the student. 
 
By just throwing some skills at the student, that is not called teaching.
You have to design a program or set of programs that can actually teach many
skills and concepts.  In other words, maybe have it to where the teacher
actually adds in the curriculum with their sequence into a flat file or
database but the program will take care of presentation due to its
modularity.  I'm thinking Typing Turtle, here.  With Typing Turtle I can put
in a sequence of teaching keys.  I have 30 lessons but have only taught 5
keys.  This is broken down for my son.  Another kid could learn those 5 keys
in maybe 10 lessons.  Right now I would have to re-write the lessons for the
other kid but you see where I am going with this - an amazing and stupendous
program would adjust automatically for each kid - probably via analyzing
thousands of kids.
 
The books I listed are the "bible" of teaching.  No kidding.  They can be
used by just about anyone to sequence teaching to ensure you don't skip
steps and lose kids.  It should help nerds (what I loving call you guys)
when they program modules.  How do you teach a skill or concept when you are
not sure the student has prerequisite skills or knowledge?
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Bill Kerr
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:21 AM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: [IAEP] maths instruction


On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Kathy Pusztavari
 wrote:


"How can this principle of customizable math be applied to framework
development?"


By showing exemplars that change as you proceed through your teaching
sequence.

See

"Designing Effective Mathematical Instruction: A Direct Instruction
Approach" by Stein, Kinder, Silbert & Carnine

"Theory of Instruction: Principles and Applications" by Engelmann and
Carnine



Could you elaborate on this a little more please Kathy?

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Re: [IAEP] 70 minute interview with Bryan Berry on XO deployment inNepal

[Kathy Pusztavari]

"How can this principle of customizable math be applied to framework
development?"

By showing exemplars that change as you proceed through your teaching
sequence.

See 

"Designing Effective Mathematical Instruction: A Direct Instruction
Approach" by Stein, Kinder, Silbert & Carnine

"Theory of Instruction: Principles and Applications" by Engelmann and
Carnine

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Maria Droujkova
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 6:53 AM
To: Bill Kerr
Cc: Bryan Berry; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] 70 minute interview with Bryan Berry on XO deployment
inNepal

> 10) Open Source software critical to high quality education - 
> education has to be very customised, to the kids, the teacher, the 
> environment and the country - not something you can design in New York 
> city and will fit another country
>
> Liping Ma argues (admittedly from small sample sizes) that many 
> teachers teach elementary maths differently and *better* in China than 
> in the USA 
> http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2009/03/long-multiplication.html
>

I think education has to be customizABLE, not customized. Every practitioner
of math has to be able to make their own version of it, based on the
previous traditions - from rephrasing definitions in your own words to
finding math in your everyday life, from choosing representation that best
suites your data and your audience to applying general principles to
particular examples. Strong teachers (including those Ma studied) are able
to use timeless, universal ideas and strategies in ways that are meaningful
to themselves and their particular students. For example, a large part of
what Chinese, Japanese or Eastern European teachers do themselves and teach
their students is creation of meaningful example spaces for each
mathematical idea and concept, including a variety of applications,
representations, connections, contexts, examples and counterexamples.
One of the most well-known part of Ma's research of these differences
included teachers searching for examples of fraction operations.

In a telling cultural experiment reported by Sfard from Israel, a chapter
quiz asked students to prove a geometry theorem from the chapter. However,
the theorem was rephrased compared to the chapter, and letters labeling
geometric figures were changed around. Recent immigrants from Eastern Europe
have not noticed the change, because it is very normal for them - a sort of
customization of material they are taught to do for themselves. On the other
hand, many kids who grew up in Israel had difficulties recognizing or
proving the theorem in its "new" form.

How can this principle of customizable math be applied to framework
development?


--
Cheers,
MariaD

Make math your own, to make your own math.

http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://www.phenixsolutions.com
empowering our innovations ___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

___
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Re: [IAEP] 70 minute interview with Bryan Berry on XO deployment inNepal

[Kathy Pusztavari]

"This framework should allow for basic functionalities such as tracking
student progress, dynamically adapting exercises to a student's capabilities
and things like the basics of Maths exercises or a typing tutor to be taken
care of. These basic building blocks can then be shared across the globe
while making it easier and quicker for people to build learning activities
tailored to the specific requirements of their country, province or town."

My thoughts exactly.  Tracking and simple programs.  Perfect.

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Derndorfer
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:05 AM
To: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] 70 minute interview with Bryan Berry on XO deployment
inNepal

Zitat von Bryan Berry :

>> Christoph wrote:
>> So in this case it doesn't necessarily make sense for someone in 
>> Berlin (let alone New York) to design a Maths learning activity to be 
>> used in an Austrian school.
>
> I disagree w/ this. Someone in Berlin or NYC can create learning 
> activities of value to those in Nepal or elsewhere but likely they 
> have to be changed in small but important ways. That is one of the 
> reasons open-source is so critical to improving education.

Mmm, I still would argue that now in some cases - especially when relevant
changes end up being quite significant - it might be easier to basically
start from scratch rather than adapting and modifying an existing activity.

I think (and I'm basically just repeating what others have said
before;-) what's best in the long-run is to have a common framework for
educational activities or at least sub-categories of such activities. 
This framework should allow for basic functionalities such as tracking
student progress, dynamically adapting exercises to a student's capabilities
and things like the basics of Maths exercises or a typing tutor to be taken
care of. These basic building blocks can then be shared across the globe
while making it easier and quicker for people to build learning activities
tailored to the specific requirements of their country, province or town.

But I'm really preaching to the choir here so I'll just shut up and finish
my lunch-break:-)

Christoph

--
Christoph Derndorfer
co-editor, olpcnews
url: www.olpcnews.com
e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com

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Re: [IAEP] mini developer tutorials

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Stupid question on #sugar channel.  I take it this starts in 10 minutes.  I
got onto irc.freenode.net but I can't get on #sugar - like it doesn't exist
or is locked or something.  Any suggestions for a newbie?  I'm using Mirc in
XP and usually don't have problems but connect to a different server.

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Walter Bender
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:07 AM
To: iaep
Subject: [IAEP] mini developer tutorials

We will launch the first of the mini Developer tutorial series beginning
today at 10AM EST (14:00 UTC). The goal of these tutorials is to share
techniques on activity development.

Today's session will be on keyboard shortcuts.

Please join us on #sugar on irc.freenode.net

-walter

--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] Fwd: On Classroom 2.0: "Open Content in Education" ThursdayFuture of Education Interview

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Okleydokley.  It sounds really interesting so I hope I can get on.
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: Caroline Meeks [mailto:solutiongr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:45 AM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: iaep
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Fwd: On Classroom 2.0: "Open Content in Education"
ThursdayFuture of Education Interview


Last time I tried it it said it was all full at about 5 minutes before. But
I asked Steve if it was and he said no, it was a technical problem.  So I
don't know what to expect but we can hope for everything to go smoothly this
time.


On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Kathy Pusztavari 
wrote:


Last time I tried to use Elluminate I wasn't allowed in after it is closed.
Am I to assume that I can't be late or I won't be allowed in?
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Caroline Meeks
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:53 AM
To: iaep
Subject: [IAEP] Fwd: On Classroom 2.0: "Open Content in Education"
ThursdayFuture of Education Interview


This might be of interest to people.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Classroom 2.0 
Date: Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:44 AM
Subject: On Classroom 2.0: "Open Content in Education" Thursday Future of
Education Interview
To: "carol...@solutiongrove.com" 


A message to all members of Classroom 2.0

Join us for a discussion of the open content movement in education, where
creative work is "published in a format that explicitly allows copying and
modifying of its information by anyone" (Wikipedia).

Date: Thursday, April 23rd, 2009

Time: 5pm Pacific / 8pm Eastern / 12am GMT

Location: In Elluminate.
hhttps://sas.elluminate.com/m.jnlp?password=M.1F880C370BF8AC73389EA1E6F91CE5
If you haven't used Elluminate before, you can check the configuration of
your computer by going to http://www.elluminate.com/support

Guests:

Karen Fasimpaur. An enthusiastic user of mobile technologies and an
evangelist for Open Education, Karen Fasimpaur has over fifteen years
experience in education and educational technology, working with schools and
educational organizations to integrate technology. Ms. Fasimpaur is
currently President of K12 Handhelds, which focuses on using mobile
computing in education. She is also the founder of the K12 Open Ed web site
and the Kids Open Dictionary project.  K12 Open Ed (www.k12opened.com). K12
Handhelds (www.k12handhelds.com).

Anne Schreiber.  Anne has over 20 years experience as a multi-media
publisher, product designer and educator. She is currently the Chief
Academic Officer of Curriki - Global Education and Learning Community.
Curriki, which was founded by Sun Microsystems is an organization dedicated
to the creation of validated, open source K-12 curricula, which is
completely free and available globally. Before joining Curriki, Anne was
Vice President of Product at the Grow Network/McGraw-Hill, an assessment and
instructional reporting company, providing customized instruction based on
summative assessment data.  Anne began her career as an elementary school
teacher, developing staff and student enrichment programs.  She is the
author of more than a dozen books for young children.

Join us!

Steve

Steve Hargadon
http://www.stevehargadon.com
st...@hargadon.com

Visit Classroom 2.0 at: http://www.classroom20.com

--
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-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax


___
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Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax

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Re: [IAEP] Fwd: On Classroom 2.0: "Open Content in Education" ThursdayFuture of Education Interview

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Last time I tried to use Elluminate I wasn't allowed in after it is closed.
Am I to assume that I can't be late or I won't be allowed in?
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Caroline Meeks
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:53 AM
To: iaep
Subject: [IAEP] Fwd: On Classroom 2.0: "Open Content in Education"
ThursdayFuture of Education Interview


This might be of interest to people.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Classroom 2.0 
Date: Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:44 AM
Subject: On Classroom 2.0: "Open Content in Education" Thursday Future of
Education Interview
To: "carol...@solutiongrove.com" 


A message to all members of Classroom 2.0

Join us for a discussion of the open content movement in education, where
creative work is "published in a format that explicitly allows copying and
modifying of its information by anyone" (Wikipedia).

Date: Thursday, April 23rd, 2009

Time: 5pm Pacific / 8pm Eastern / 12am GMT

Location: In Elluminate.
hhttps://sas.elluminate.com/m.jnlp?password=M.1F880C370BF8AC73389EA1E6F91CE5
If you haven't used Elluminate before, you can check the configuration of
your computer by going to http://www.elluminate.com/support

Guests:

Karen Fasimpaur. An enthusiastic user of mobile technologies and an
evangelist for Open Education, Karen Fasimpaur has over fifteen years
experience in education and educational technology, working with schools and
educational organizations to integrate technology. Ms. Fasimpaur is
currently President of K12 Handhelds, which focuses on using mobile
computing in education. She is also the founder of the K12 Open Ed web site
and the Kids Open Dictionary project.  K12 Open Ed (www.k12opened.com). K12
Handhelds (www.k12handhelds.com).

Anne Schreiber.  Anne has over 20 years experience as a multi-media
publisher, product designer and educator. She is currently the Chief
Academic Officer of Curriki - Global Education and Learning Community.
Curriki, which was founded by Sun Microsystems is an organization dedicated
to the creation of validated, open source K-12 curricula, which is
completely free and available globally. Before joining Curriki, Anne was
Vice President of Product at the Grow Network/McGraw-Hill, an assessment and
instructional reporting company, providing customized instruction based on
summative assessment data.  Anne began her career as an elementary school
teacher, developing staff and student enrichment programs.  She is the
author of more than a dozen books for young children.

Join us!

Steve

Steve Hargadon
http://www.stevehargadon.com
st...@hargadon.com

Visit Classroom 2.0 at: http://www.classroom20.com

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Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax

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Re: [IAEP] soas beta mouse and WAP

[Kathy Pusztavari]

I don't know about Mark but it is true of all the dells I've tested on (4/14
SoaS version) - wireless doesn't work.  I heard it was a known issue.  Not
sure where to put in a bug report.
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Caroline Meeks
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:15 AM
To: Mark Ahlness
Cc: iaep
Subject: Re: [IAEP] soas beta mouse and WAP


Hi Mark,

I'm catching up with old emails. Is this still an issue? Do you know if a
bug was put in on it?

Thanks,
Caroline


On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Mark Ahlness  wrote:


I might as well add another issue, as long as I'm sending in bugs:

Using soas-beta, I am no longer able to connect to the Internet via wireless
access point in my classroom. I had been able to do this before, using soas1
on my XOs.

With soas-beta on my Dell Latitude D600s, the WAP will not work. But plug in
an ethernet cable to those laptops, and they are instantly on the Internet
with soas-beta.

WAP: Linksys Instant Wireless WAP54G Wireless Access Point
(http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10336374)

This WAP is configured to require authentication, ie, password. There is no
prompt for a password using soas-beta. Shouldn't there be one? - Mark

> -Original Message-
> From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:iaep-
> boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Mark Ahlness
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:38 AM
> To: 'iaep'
> Subject: [IAEP] soas beta and usb mouse
>
> So is the reason my mouse will not show up on my Dell desktop the fact
> that
> I am using a usb mouse and there's a conflict? The mouse is there (I can
> tell sort of where it is), just can't see it. Using soas beta, fat32 2gb
> stick. Works ok on laptop. Anybody else have this issue? Thanks - Mark
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep


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-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax

___
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Re: [IAEP] XS (was Re: Sugar Digest 2009-04-21)

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Good to know.  I didn't realize XS is the school server.

-Kathy 

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Edward Cherlin
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:59 AM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs
Subject: [IAEP] XS (was Re: Sugar Digest 2009-04-21)

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Kathy Pusztavari 
wrote:
> Walter, is there a link on how to set up a school server?

The basics are in the Laptop Wiki, at

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Installing_Software

I have created a qemu image of XS for testing on our private server.
Installation and basic configuration are straightforward, requiring no
special knowledge. System administration after that is not well documented.

> -Kathy


--
Silent Thunder (??/???/? ?) is my name And Children
are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2009-04-21

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Walter, is there a link on how to set up a school server?

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Walter Bender
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 6:45 AM
To: community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs; Sugar Devel
Subject: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2009-04-21

===Sugar Digest ===

1. Five Google Summer of Code projects have been selected for 2009. We are
excited about all five proposals; our only regret is that we were unable to
accept any more of the promising proposals we received.
Thank you to everyone who participated in the selection process-the feedback
on the proposals from the community has been especially of great value.

To all of those who were not selected this year, we appreciate your efforts
and hope that you will be able to find time to participate in the Sugar Labs
community in some fashion this summer. We hope you'll reapply next year.

To those of you who were selected this year, both mentors and students,
let's converge on a regular weekly meeting time in IRC to exchange notes on
progress and problems. Individual teams should, of course, make arrangements
for regular meeting times as well. In general, let's continue to hang out on
#sugar, so that the developer community can stay abreast of what is
happening.

Kudos to Jamison Quinn for organizing our GSoC efforts and seeing to all of
the details. Finally, thanks once again to Google for this opportunity.

Student: Lucian Branescu Mihaila
Project: Webified
Mentor: Walter Bender

Student: Sascha Silbe
Project: Version support for Sugar datastore and Journal
Mentor: Jameson Quinn

Student: Felipe Lopez Toledo
Project: Karma + Activities
Mentor: Bryan Berry

Student: Vamsi Krishna Davuluri
Project: Adding Print Support to the XOs
Mentor: Andres Ambrois

Student: Benjamin Schwartz
Project: Decentralized Asynchronous Collision-free Editing with Groupthink
Mentor: Assim Deodia

2. Caroline Meeks and I spent last Saturday at the Waltham YMCA where we
exercised Sugar on a Stick with children and their parents visiting the Y
for Healthy Kids Day. (I had to leave early to meet to attend to some sewer
problems-don't ask.) All in all, it was a great day.

>From the technical point of view, Sugar on a Stick lived up to its billing.
We were able to get all but one of the mismatched castaway PCs to boot, even
some of which would not boot into Windows XP. (The one machine that did not
boot would not power on at all-not something we could fix with software.) We
did have one machine with an invisible cursor, but otherwise it ran fine.
Sound worked on every machine that had speakers. We were able to assign
static IP addresses and every machine was able to connect to the Internet.
However something was preventing collaboration to work: we could see each
other, but not share activities or interact with other users connected to
jabber.sugarlabs.org. We have some debugging to do. Ideally, we would have
brought a school server in to assign IP addresses, which would have assured
that at least local collaboration worked.

Caroline will be writing up detailed notes on the children's use of Sugar
throughout the day. The way things were organized, parents and children were
dropping in to the room at any time during the day. We had in the room
anywhere from two to six children, as young as two and as old as seven or
eight, while I was there. They went right to the machines without any
introduction to Sugar. Most of the machines were either already running an
activity or had the Home View visible.
Popular activities included Memorize, where some children went so far as to
design their own games, Jigsaw Puzzle, Turtle Art, Speak, Write, and Mini
Tam Tam.

While hardly a typical classroom setting, things went quite well with this
somewhat haphazard introduction to Sugar: the children were engaged, as were
their parents. However there was not time enough for them to discover or
exploit features such as the Journal. And since collaboration was not
working, all of the interactions were solo.
Undoubtedly there is some more scaffolding we can provide children and
parents new to Sugar. (We've already had some follow-up discussions on how
to best integrate examples into activities and how to make the views and
frame more readily discoverable on non-OLPC-XO hardware.)

===In the community===

3. Lionel Laske announced that OLPC France will organize with Sugar Labs the
first Sugar Camp in Europe in Paris on May 16. Sign up at
http://sugarcamp.eventbrite.com/. Several workshop will be organized all
around the day: technical, pedagogical and documentation. The full agenda is
not closed so do not hesitate to submit a workshop proposal.
These events are fully free, thanks to AFUL and GDium.

There will also be a Sugar meeting on the 17th (See
[[Marketing_Team/Events/MiniCamp_Paris_2009]]) where we will be discussing
initial plans for Sucrose 0.86.

===Tech Talk===

4. Christian Marc Schmidt led

Re: [IAEP] Home View

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Activities should be modifyable.  You should be able to create your own
lessons - see Typing Turtle (a brilliant program).  Even if creating the
lessons requires a bit of programming knowledge (I don't know python but I
know how to cut and paste and a bit of perl & php).  So that a teacher can
get a local nerd to help her (or him) make lessons within the structure.
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Caroline Meeks
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 7:24 AM
To: IAEP SugarLabs
Subject: [IAEP] Home View


We are getting a great discussion going on what activities should be in the
home view. I actually think this is really important.

I want to step back a step and work together on what criteria we should have
to put an activity in the home view. Here is how I've deconstructed my
thinking.



1.  We want an attractive, abundant but not cluttered ring of
activities. 

2.  Activities in the ring should work!


3.  Activities in the favorites ring should have most of these
characteristics



1.  be easily engaged with by a kid or adult 

2.  Not frustrating to a new user


3.  Easy to image how the activity could promote learning 

4.  A free and open version of something some schools or parents are
currently paying money for


5.  Show off the power of the system in some way (examples)



1.  Collaboration 

2.  Teacher ability to structure materials

Maybe people can add and clarify this.


-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax

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Re: [IAEP] Anyone gotten a 4GB or greater USB stick to work forSugar on a Stick?

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Mitch,  I was able to get chat and shared a write document on 2 non-XO
machines using the beta dated 4/14.  It was a little tricky as it took a
couple reboots for both computers to show up in the neighborhood.  Once that
happens, chat, write, etc should work. (at least in my experience)
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Mitchell Seaton
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 1:45 AM
To: Caroline Meeks
Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Anyone gotten a 4GB or greater USB stick to work
forSugar on a Stick?


Hi Caroline,

Yesterday I used a Sony MicroVault 4G USB stick (FAT-32) and with the Fedora
Live USB Creator (Windows) to create SoaS-beta.
I have so far only tested on Classmate (gen 2) machine and works great! I
will test on other machines tomorrow and during the week I hope. 

Main noticeable bug I found with SoaS on Classmate was that sending an
invite to XO user (say for chat activity) didn't go through but it works the
other way around sending invite from XO to Classmate (SoaS), and the chat
session goes ahead yay! 

Cheers,
Mitch


On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Caroline Meeks 
wrote:


Did you make it on a Windows or Linux machine?

We are getting a lot of variability in terms of having USBs work and I'm
trying to tease out what all the different failure mechanisms are.  If
anyone wants to experiment I'd like to know if you can get a 4GB or greater
stick, created using the  Windows GUI, to work.

Thanks!
Caroline

-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax

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Re: [IAEP] State of Soas?

[Kathy Pusztavari]

I would like to echo every single question that Christoph brought up.  I'm
interested in starting sugar labs in my city but was wondering if anyone has
a guesstimate (even if pulled out of their tush) of how long before the
issues below are worked out - or if they are even planning on working out
the issues.

Any help would be wonderful,
Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Derndorfer
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:47 AM
To: iaep
Subject: [IAEP] State of Soas?

Dear all,

even though I've tried to keep a close eye on the breathtaking development
of SoaS over the past few weeks there are still some basic questions I'm
wondering about, all related to how well SoaS runs on the various netbooks.

* Have the resolution issues, which used to be a major issue w/ running
Sugar on a non-XO, been solved?
* What about font sizes?
* Do all the activities (incl. collaboration) work reliably on SoaS these
days?
* Does SoaS allow for power-management to kick in on netbooks?
* What exactly are the networking and audio issues that Walter described in
yesterday's Sugar-Digest?

What I'm basically trying to find out is whether *today* running SoaS on a
netbook is a *real* alternative to XOs with build 767 when it comes to
classroom settings?

Thanks,
Christoph

--
Christoph Derndorfer
co-editor, olpcnews
url: www.olpcnews.com
e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
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Re: [IAEP] Help Wanted: Keeper of the Hardware List

[Kathy Pusztavari]

 Yep, the wiki would be great.  Just need to set up a table

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Marten Vijn
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:58 AM
To: Caroline Meeks
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Help Wanted: Keeper of the Hardware List

On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 12:09 -0400, Caroline Meeks wrote:
> People are starting to use SoaS! which means they are starting to 
> report which wireless cards, video cards and computers its not working 
> on.
> 
> We could really use someone to keep up a list of what we know works 
> and doesn't on which dates, and what tickets have been filed.  Either 
> using a wiki or Google docs and the cool looking Forms feature.

Aye!
Let's use a wiki for this, I 've got 10-15 pieces of hardware I could test
every now and then.

It would be nice of a list what to test.

Kind regards,
Marten


> Thanks!
> Caroline
> 
> --
> Caroline Meeks
> Solution Grove
> carol...@solutiongrove.com
> 
> 617-500-3488 - Office
> 505-213-3268 - Fax
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) 
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
-- 
http://martenvijn.nl Marten Vijn 
http://martenvijn.nl/trac/wiki/soas  Sugar on a Stick
http://bsd.wifisoft.org/nek/ The Network Event Kit
http://har2009.org   13th-16th August 
http://opencommunitycamp.org 26th Jul - 2nd August

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Re: [IAEP] Sugar on a Stick - Acer Aspire

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Please send responses to the list.  I'm interested in this also.  Is there a
way to use existing drivers and load them onto the thumbdrive once booted to
sugar?

Also, what are the differences between drivers under Ubuntu and a needed
driver under Fedora (sorry for the newbie question).  I ask because I have a
native Ubuntu netbook that works fairly OK under suguar (except that the
screen is cut off at the bottom).

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Shira
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 2:51 PM
To: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: [IAEP] Sugar on a Stick - Acer Aspire

Hi,

I just booted an Acer Aspire into Sugar, and I need to install drivers for
sounds, wifi and all that.
Do you know how I can do this?

Thank you very much!

Shira
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Re: [IAEP] How to load onto Ubuntu netbook

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Walter, you’re brilliant.  I used a Lexar 2 gig and created a stick.  The
Dell booted.  BTW, my ex-husband bought this Dell new for $100 on some weird
special (knowing him it was fatwallet).  He bought 5 of them and made a
nifty profit.

It booted fine.  It doesn't connect wirelessly but LAB (low and behold) it
has a wired port so I hooked it in.  Yep, connects to the internet.  I
downloaded Turtle Typing per Walter.  OMG - it works!  So I got a little
bold and put my custom lesson in there thinking all the lessons would be
lost when I reboot.  I used one of the 3 USB ports and stuck in another
thumb drive with the lessons on it (formatted FAT32) It wasn't lost!  All
lessons were still there when I rebooted the machine.  BTW - it takes 45
seconds to boot on that stupid $100 Dell Inspiron 910.  Looks pretty good
but there are font issues and the screen cuts just a bit off on the bottom
but otherwise very usable. Plus it is about 100 times faster.

I can't stop.  I'm not looking at the neighborhood.  I suspect that doesn't
work but I can't help myself.

Thanks again,

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Walter Bender
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:22 AM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs
Subject: Re: [IAEP] How to load onto Ubuntu netbook

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Kathy Pusztavari
 wrote:
> Nevermind - I see now that the Fedora USB Creator says Browse OR Download.
> Duh on my part.
>
> Boy it takes forever to download sometimes

This is why I recommend downloading the image separately (and subsequently
using the Browse option).

> -Kathy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Walter Bender [mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 8:26 AM
> To: Kathy Pusztavari
> Cc: IAEP SugarLabs
> Subject: Re: [IAEP] How to load onto Ubuntu netbook
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Kathy Pusztavari 
>  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I got the beta version to work on my PC (Dell Dimension 9200).  Works 
>> great (and super fast) but I have a couple of newbie questions:
>>
>> 1.  If I want to add an activity (Turtle Typing), is that possible?
>
> Depending upon which Beta you have, just use activities.sugarlabs.org 
> to download and install new activities. But Turtle Typing should be 
> already included, but perhaps not starred in the List View?
>
>>
>> 2. I noticed that when looking at the thumb drive you don't see the 
>> actual directory structure.  Does it set up a virtual directory 
>> structure upon booting?
>>
>> 3. Once booted, can I simply copy over the Turtle Typing directory 
>> structure into the virtual area?  I suspect this would need to be 
>> done each time it is booted but I'm just wondering.  I can see 
>> another thumb drives with the typing turles files on it...
>>
>>
>> Now onto another question.  Stop me if I'm not asking in the right place.
>>
>> I tried to load onto a Dell Inspiron 910 netbook that came loaded 
>> with Ubuntu.  I created the 2 gig thumbdrive SoaS beta on an XP machine.
>> When I used the Fedora Live USB Creator, I wasn't sure from the 
>> instructions what to choose in the pull down titled "Download Fedora".
>> I'm not sure that is even required that you choose something there if 
>> you click on "Browse" and use the SoaS beta .iso.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> 1. Can I create the thumbdrive on an XP - not boot on the XP but 
>> directly try to boot it on the Ubuntu Dell netbook?  I tried that and 
>> it will not boot. (yes, I changed the boot sequence to boot on USB).
>
> The most recent version of the USB Creator lets you access the Sugar 
> Beta from the pull-down menu on the upper-right of the window. But you 
> may well want to down load the image and use the Browse functionality 
> as per earlier versions. (In my experience it is faster and it lets 
> you make multiple
> copies.) Don't forget to allocate some persistent storage.
>
> Once you have made the SoaS USB, it should work on any computer, 
> although the Beta is known to be finicky.
>
>>
>> 2. Do I have to create the thumbdrive on the Ubuntu netbook using the 
>> instructions for Linux. I suck at Linux so I'm trying to avoid that 
>> as I'm not sure it has all required packages and I'm trying not to 
>> mess with the machine as it's not mine.
>
> No. The image you create on XP should work everywhere. If it doesn't, 
> perhaps try a different brand of USB. Not sure why that matters, but 
> it seems to. (I have had good luck with SanDisk for some reason.)
>
>>
>>

Re: [IAEP] How to load onto Ubuntu netbook

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Nevermind - I see now that the Fedora USB Creator says Browse OR Download.
Duh on my part.

Boy it takes forever to download sometimes

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: Walter Bender [mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 8:26 AM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs
Subject: Re: [IAEP] How to load onto Ubuntu netbook

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Kathy Pusztavari
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I got the beta version to work on my PC (Dell Dimension 9200).  Works 
> great (and super fast) but I have a couple of newbie questions:
>
> 1.  If I want to add an activity (Turtle Typing), is that possible?

Depending upon which Beta you have, just use activities.sugarlabs.org to
download and install new activities. But Turtle Typing should be already
included, but perhaps not starred in the List View?

>
> 2. I noticed that when looking at the thumb drive you don't see the 
> actual directory structure.  Does it set up a virtual directory 
> structure upon booting?
>
> 3. Once booted, can I simply copy over the Turtle Typing directory 
> structure into the virtual area?  I suspect this would need to be done 
> each time it is booted but I'm just wondering.  I can see another 
> thumb drives with the typing turles files on it...
>
>
> Now onto another question.  Stop me if I'm not asking in the right place.
>
> I tried to load onto a Dell Inspiron 910 netbook that came loaded with 
> Ubuntu.  I created the 2 gig thumbdrive SoaS beta on an XP machine.  
> When I used the Fedora Live USB Creator, I wasn't sure from the 
> instructions what to choose in the pull down titled "Download Fedora".  
> I'm not sure that is even required that you choose something there if 
> you click on "Browse" and use the SoaS beta .iso.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. Can I create the thumbdrive on an XP - not boot on the XP but 
> directly try to boot it on the Ubuntu Dell netbook?  I tried that and 
> it will not boot. (yes, I changed the boot sequence to boot on USB).

The most recent version of the USB Creator lets you access the Sugar Beta
from the pull-down menu on the upper-right of the window. But you may well
want to down load the image and use the Browse functionality as per earlier
versions. (In my experience it is faster and it lets you make multiple
copies.) Don't forget to allocate some persistent storage.

Once you have made the SoaS USB, it should work on any computer, although
the Beta is known to be finicky.

>
> 2. Do I have to create the thumbdrive on the Ubuntu netbook using the 
> instructions for Linux. I suck at Linux so I'm trying to avoid that as 
> I'm not sure it has all required packages and I'm trying not to mess 
> with the machine as it's not mine.

No. The image you create on XP should work everywhere. If it doesn't,
perhaps try a different brand of USB. Not sure why that matters, but it
seems to. (I have had good luck with SanDisk for some reason.)

>
> 3. Has anyone else successfully gotten a thumbdrive to boot on this 
> particular Dell Inspiron 910 netbook running Ubuntu?
>
> 4. Should I try to create a bootable SD card instead?
>
> Overall I have only two questions that have been answered but hasn't 
> gotten through my thick skull.
>
> 1. I realize that using Fedora 11 is part of SoaS-2 but is there an 
> actual different SoaS .iso in the making for version 2 or is simply 
> using the current beta of SoaS and loading it on Fedora 11 (using the 
> Download Fedora on the right side of the Live USB Creator) 
> automatically making it a SoaS-2 version.
>

The base system of SoaS-2 is F11. For SoaS-1, it is F10. The system used to
create the USBs is not relevant, although the F9-based helper CD didn't work
for SoaS-2. The new helper CD is based on F10.

> 2. What are the various "Download Fedora" options?   What is an i686?  
> When should the Sugar on a Stick option be used?  I think this is a 
> case of too many options and a newbie so sorry about that.

You should just use the SoaS Beta. The rest of the options are not relevant
in this use case.

> Sorry to be a bother and thanks for any help,

Not a bother.

>
> Kathy
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) 
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

___
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IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 13, Issue 38

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Being on the west coast (Oregon), I can also empathize.  That said, I think
this is a slow process on a shoe string budget so we will need patience.

I would like to thank all involved.

-Kathy

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of David Farning
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 8:37 AM
To: Caryl Bigenho
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs
Subject: Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 13, Issue 38

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:48 AM, Caryl Bigenho  wrote:
> Hi Carolyn,
> Budget? What's that"?  No, I am a retired educator who has been doing 
> support-gang stuff for about a year and-a-half now.
> I am the only one in the Southern California area and have to shell 
> out a $$$ for anything I need to support OLPC and SugarLabs.  I guess 
> it is tax deductible so that is some consolation.
> I don't have a multi-port, just an old Powerbook that I repaired and 
> gave to my husband and a refurbished MacBook.  I also have 5 working 
> XOs, but right now 2 of them are on loan to someone who is trying to 
> get either XOs or Sugar, running on different computers, for after 
> school programs at several middle schools in South-Central LA.
> I did buy a live CD of Sugar to take to SCaLE in Feb. for the OLPC booth.
>  Before I even had a chance to try it...someone took it!  There were a 
> lot of other booths giving away stuff so I guess they just thought it 
> was free for the taking.
> I don't mind trying the DIY, I just thought that the labeled sticks 
> would be more effective.  Either way I would really need to know how 
> to get it going on the MacBook.  Maybe I'll just take the XOs and tell 
> people the other is coming.  I really wanted to help you get the word 
> out, but I guess the left coast isn't that much of a focus for SugarLabs.
> If this sounds like a sob-story, it is.  I am really disappointed. Sorry.
> Caryl

Please accept my apologies about Sugar Lab's ability to help you.
Your contributions, through spreading the word, are invaluable.
Everyone as SL is currently paying their own way; which the exception of the
GOSC students:) (Go Jamison, Go)

The apparent emphases on the East Cost and Boston is due solely to the fact
that Caroline and Walter happen to live there.  (As a brief, aside we met
Caroline at a conference in Indiana.  Location is not
everything.)  So, transportation is cheap; Bicycle or Prius depending on the
person and distance.  If things work out well for Caroline and Walter, the
lessons they learning doing Sugar deployments, can be applied to the rest of
the world.

david

>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 09:19:49 -0400
>> From: Caroline Meeks 
>> Subject: Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 13, Issue 33
>> To: Caryl Bigenho 
>> Cc: IAEP SugarLabs 
>> Message-ID:
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi Caryl,
>>
>> I want you to know Dave and I are working on the Mac install. At 
>> FOSSVT it was done by sitting next to Dave. We are working on
instructions.
>>
>> I have very few sticks left so I think you need to plan on DIY. Do 
>> you have a budget? You could probably get a new order delivered in 
>> time.
>>
>> Do you have a multiport so you can batch burn then? I recommend 
>> burning them only a day or two ahead as things keep getting better at 
>> a rapid rate.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caroline
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Caryl Bigenho
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Carolyn, Walter, et. al.,
>>>
>>> O.K. So maybe SoaS is ready for Prime Time after all! Running on 
>>> Macs...Wow! How do I contact David Bauer? Could I please, please, 
>>> get a couple of labeled sticks for the LAUSD Tech Expo at the LA 
>>> Convention Center April 25. I could make DIY ones here, but that 
>>> isn't quite the same.
>>> Having
>>> the lableled ones will make sure folks know what is happening as 
>>> they casually walk by...a great attention getter!
>>> Caryl
>>>
>>> ___
>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) 
>>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Caroline Meeks
>> Solution Grove
>> carol...@solutiongrove.com
>>
>> 617-500-3488 - Office
>> 505-213-3268 - Fax
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>>
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/attachments/20090412/eb2e293c/attach
ment-0001.htm
>>
>> --
>>
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>> End of IAEP Digest, Vol 13, Issue 38
>> 
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a lapto

Re: [IAEP] How to load onto Ubuntu netbook

[Kathy Pusztavari]

So to follow up, Walter - I guess I don't understand how the left and right
side of the Fedora Live USB Creator work.

1. Do you use the left Browse to find .iso OR the right "Download Fedora"
and pick the "Sugar on a Stick (beta)" installation - but not both?

2. If you choose "Sugar on a Stick (beta)" does the installer go out on the
web and download the newest beta version or is this a specific dated beta
version?

I used 400 mb of persistent storage on my 2 gig PNY brand stick.  I'll try
other brands (I have a lexar also).

Thanks a ton,
Kathy
-Original Message-
From: Walter Bender [mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 8:26 AM
To: Kathy Pusztavari
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs
Subject: Re: [IAEP] How to load onto Ubuntu netbook

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Kathy Pusztavari
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I got the beta version to work on my PC (Dell Dimension 9200).  Works 
> great (and super fast) but I have a couple of newbie questions:
>
> 1.  If I want to add an activity (Turtle Typing), is that possible?

Depending upon which Beta you have, just use activities.sugarlabs.org to
download and install new activities. But Turtle Typing should be already
included, but perhaps not starred in the List View?

>
> 2. I noticed that when looking at the thumb drive you don't see the 
> actual directory structure.  Does it set up a virtual directory 
> structure upon booting?
>
> 3. Once booted, can I simply copy over the Turtle Typing directory 
> structure into the virtual area?  I suspect this would need to be done 
> each time it is booted but I'm just wondering.  I can see another 
> thumb drives with the typing turles files on it...
>
>
> Now onto another question.  Stop me if I'm not asking in the right place.
>
> I tried to load onto a Dell Inspiron 910 netbook that came loaded with 
> Ubuntu.  I created the 2 gig thumbdrive SoaS beta on an XP machine.  
> When I used the Fedora Live USB Creator, I wasn't sure from the 
> instructions what to choose in the pull down titled "Download Fedora".  
> I'm not sure that is even required that you choose something there if 
> you click on "Browse" and use the SoaS beta .iso.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. Can I create the thumbdrive on an XP - not boot on the XP but 
> directly try to boot it on the Ubuntu Dell netbook?  I tried that and 
> it will not boot. (yes, I changed the boot sequence to boot on USB).

The most recent version of the USB Creator lets you access the Sugar Beta
from the pull-down menu on the upper-right of the window. But you may well
want to down load the image and use the Browse functionality as per earlier
versions. (In my experience it is faster and it lets you make multiple
copies.) Don't forget to allocate some persistent storage.

Once you have made the SoaS USB, it should work on any computer, although
the Beta is known to be finicky.

>
> 2. Do I have to create the thumbdrive on the Ubuntu netbook using the 
> instructions for Linux. I suck at Linux so I'm trying to avoid that as 
> I'm not sure it has all required packages and I'm trying not to mess 
> with the machine as it's not mine.

No. The image you create on XP should work everywhere. If it doesn't,
perhaps try a different brand of USB. Not sure why that matters, but it
seems to. (I have had good luck with SanDisk for some reason.)

>
> 3. Has anyone else successfully gotten a thumbdrive to boot on this 
> particular Dell Inspiron 910 netbook running Ubuntu?
>
> 4. Should I try to create a bootable SD card instead?
>
> Overall I have only two questions that have been answered but hasn't 
> gotten through my thick skull.
>
> 1. I realize that using Fedora 11 is part of SoaS-2 but is there an 
> actual different SoaS .iso in the making for version 2 or is simply 
> using the current beta of SoaS and loading it on Fedora 11 (using the 
> Download Fedora on the right side of the Live USB Creator) 
> automatically making it a SoaS-2 version.
>

The base system of SoaS-2 is F11. For SoaS-1, it is F10. The system used to
create the USBs is not relevant, although the F9-based helper CD didn't work
for SoaS-2. The new helper CD is based on F10.

> 2. What are the various "Download Fedora" options?   What is an i686?  
> When should the Sugar on a Stick option be used?  I think this is a 
> case of too many options and a newbie so sorry about that.

You should just use the SoaS Beta. The rest of the options are not relevant
in this use case.

> Sorry to be a bother and thanks for any help,

Not a bother.

>
> Kathy
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) 
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

[IAEP] How to load onto Ubuntu netbook

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Hi,
 
I got the beta version to work on my PC (Dell Dimension 9200).  Works great
(and super fast) but I have a couple of newbie questions:
 
1.  If I want to add an activity (Turtle Typing), is that possible?
 
2. I noticed that when looking at the thumb drive you don't see the actual
directory structure.  Does it set up a virtual directory structure upon
booting?
 
3. Once booted, can I simply copy over the Turtle Typing directory structure
into the virtual area?  I suspect this would need to be done each time it is
booted but I'm just wondering.  I can see another thumb drives with the
typing turles files on it...
 
 
Now onto another question.  Stop me if I'm not asking in the right place.
 
I tried to load onto a Dell Inspiron 910 netbook that came loaded with
Ubuntu.  I created the 2 gig thumbdrive SoaS beta on an XP machine.  When I
used the Fedora Live USB Creator, I wasn't sure from the instructions what
to choose in the pull down titled "Download Fedora".  I'm not sure that is
even required that you choose something there if you click on "Browse" and
use the SoaS beta .iso.  
 
Questions:
 
1. Can I create the thumbdrive on an XP - not boot on the XP but directly
try to boot it on the Ubuntu Dell netbook?  I tried that and it will not
boot. (yes, I changed the boot sequence to boot on USB).
 
2. Do I have to create the thumbdrive on the Ubuntu netbook using the
instructions for Linux. I suck at Linux so I'm trying to avoid that as I'm
not sure it has all required packages and I'm trying not to mess with the
machine as it's not mine.
 
3. Has anyone else successfully gotten a thumbdrive to boot on this
particular Dell Inspiron 910 netbook running Ubuntu?
 
4. Should I try to create a bootable SD card instead?
 
Overall I have only two questions that have been answered but hasn't gotten
through my thick skull.
 
1. I realize that using Fedora 11 is part of SoaS-2 but is there an actual
different SoaS .iso in the making for version 2 or is simply using the
current beta of SoaS and loading it on Fedora 11 (using the Download Fedora
on the right side of the Live USB Creator) automatically making it a SoaS-2
version. 
 
2. What are the various "Download Fedora" options?   What is an i686?  When
should the Sugar on a Stick option be used?  I think this is a case of too
many options and a newbie so sorry about that.
 
Sorry to be a bother and thanks for any help,
 
Kathy
   
___
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IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs USB Sticks have arrived!

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Are the sticks 1.0 or 2.0.  The iso image I see on the website doesn't
specify which... 

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Sean DALY
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 11:00 AM
To: Mike Lee
Cc: Sugar Labs Marketing; IAEP SugarLabs
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs USB Sticks have arrived!

Wow thanks Mike for these great photos!

SoaS as low hanging fruit :D

I really like the shots of the sticks in the Classmate which represent what
SoaS is meant to do

thanks for the tip about the loose endcaps I'll bring that up with our
supplier if we reorder like those

Sean

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:32 AM, Mike Lee  wrote:
> OK, another shoot accomplished despite a cartwheeling child, gnats and 
> a sudden breeze. I added a bunch of CC'd photos of the promotional USB 
> drives to the other PR photos:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/sets/72157615270454953/
>
> I quickly noticed that the end cap of these USB drives where they 
> would be attached to a key chain or lanyard pops off very easily. 
> Nothing an extra blob of contact cement or epoxy wouldn't fix.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/3429553065/in/set-721576152704
> 54953/
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Walter Bender 
> 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 1:15 PM, alan c 
>> wrote:
>> > Caroline Meeks wrote:
>> >> They look good!
>> >
>> > Could someone please post some tech details about the exact content 
>> > of these please? And a link also to how to create a diy version of 
>> > these also?
>> > tia
>> > --
>> > alan cocks
>> > Ubuntu user
>>
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation
>>
>> -walter
>>
>> > ___
>> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) 
>> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Walter Bender
>> Sugar Labs
>> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) 
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

___
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IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] DC Photo Jam 2 - New batch of photos of SoaS running onnetbooks

[Kathy Pusztavari]

Adorable.  You indeed picked the best of the bunch. 
 
This may have been answered somewhere else but I'm wondering if SoaS is
faster on other processors than on the XO1.  I find the XO to be terribly
slow.  Has it been tested on the Classmate 3 - if so, is it fast?
 
-Kathy

  _  

From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Mike Lee
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:40 PM
To: iaep; market...@lists.sugarlabs.org; Sugar Devel; Christian Marc Schmidt
Cc: Christoph Derndorfer; wayan
Subject: [IAEP] DC Photo Jam 2 - New batch of photos of SoaS running
onnetbooks


Following up on a request from Walter and Christian a couple weeks ago, I
finally got a photo session going this evening to capture some shots of SoaS
running on an Asus EeePC 701 and Intel Classmate 2--complete with child! An
added bonus was having Sasche Silbe come up on Chat on the Classmate 2 while
I was shooting, so I was able to cache some colorful Chat lines. The images
are high resolution, reproduction quality and set to CC. If you have any
problems retrieving from Flickr, let me know. If you are not a contact of
mine, I will have to "Friend" you to allow access to the high rez. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/sets/72157615270454953/

Mike

http://www.olpclearningclub.org
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Mikelee

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