Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Chris Leonard]

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Walter Bender  wrote:
> There is no narration to any of the videos. They are simply screencasts (of
> Sugar running in English).
>


Sorry, I misunderstood the issue.  I guess we would need a robotic
method of walking through screen actions (once for each language).

cjl
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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Walter Bender]

There is no narration to any of the videos. They are simply screencasts (of
Sugar running in English).

-walter

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Chris Leonard 
wrote:

> Here is the link I was looking for.
>
>
> http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/formats/subtitles.html
>
> cjl
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Chris Leonard 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Walter Bender 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, I wrote an app [1] to introduce teachers (in Australia) to the
>>> core Sugar concepts (both UI and pedagogy). It would be easy to strip the
>>> app of the AU-specifics. A bit more challenging for i18n since the videos
>>> would need to be redone. It make a big difference in the speed in which we
>>> were able to bring teachers up to speed in AU, which had been a major
>>> bottleneck in Sugar adoption. (Obviously, this doesn't solve any of the UX
>>> issues.)
>>>
>>> [1] https://github.com/walterbender/training
>>>
>>
>> Obviously a Spanish-voiced one would be a nice addition, but I wonder
>> whether the videos could be subtitled with a tool that supports i18n.  I
>> know that Pootle handles some of the subtitle formats natively.  I'll have
>> to dig a little to figure out which tools are best supported.
>>
>> cjl
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
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Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Chris Leonard]

Here is the link I was looking for.

http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/formats/subtitles.html

cjl

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Chris Leonard 
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Walter Bender 
> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, I wrote an app [1] to introduce teachers (in Australia) to the core
>> Sugar concepts (both UI and pedagogy). It would be easy to strip the app of
>> the AU-specifics. A bit more challenging for i18n since the videos would
>> need to be redone. It make a big difference in the speed in which we were
>> able to bring teachers up to speed in AU, which had been a major bottleneck
>> in Sugar adoption. (Obviously, this doesn't solve any of the UX issues.)
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/walterbender/training
>>
>
> Obviously a Spanish-voiced one would be a nice addition, but I wonder
> whether the videos could be subtitled with a tool that supports i18n.  I
> know that Pootle handles some of the subtitle formats natively.  I'll have
> to dig a little to figure out which tools are best supported.
>
> cjl
>
>
>
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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Chris Leonard]

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Walter Bender 
wrote:

> FWIW, I wrote an app [1] to introduce teachers (in Australia) to the core
> Sugar concepts (both UI and pedagogy). It would be easy to strip the app of
> the AU-specifics. A bit more challenging for i18n since the videos would
> need to be redone. It make a big difference in the speed in which we were
> able to bring teachers up to speed in AU, which had been a major bottleneck
> in Sugar adoption. (Obviously, this doesn't solve any of the UX issues.)
>
> [1] https://github.com/walterbender/training
>

Obviously a Spanish-voiced one would be a nice addition, but I wonder
whether the videos could be subtitled with a tool that supports i18n.  I
know that Pootle handles some of the subtitle formats natively.  I'll have
to dig a little to figure out which tools are best supported.

cjl
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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

Oh wow!! Amazing! :D

I suggest transferring this to the github.com/sugarlabs org :D
https://github.com/walterbender/training/settings

I see there's a 3.61 branch, I'll make a PR to track merging it


On 2 May 2016 at 10:11, Walter Bender  wrote:

> FWIW, I wrote an app [1] to introduce teachers (in Australia) to the core
> Sugar concepts (both UI and pedagogy). It would be easy to strip the app of
> the AU-specifcs. A bit more challenging for i18n since the videos would
> need to be redone. It make a big difference in the speed in which we were
> able to bring teachers up to speed in AU, which had been a major bottleneck
> in Sugar adoption. (Obviously, this doesn't solve any of the UX issues.)
>
> [1] https://github.com/walterbender/training
>
> -walter
>
> On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Sam Parkinson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> I'm no longer afk.  I have collated the results into the attached
>> spreedsheet.
>>
>> Previously, I also wrote up an analysis of the results.  It is also
>> attached.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sam
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> On 22 April 2016 at 09:01, Laura Vargas  wrote:
>>
>>> Would be nice to have them published.
>>>
>>
>> I'd like to help with this.
>>
>> Please could you share the Google Doc with me in edit mode,
>> d.crossl...@gmail.com, so I can take a look at all the metadata? :)
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> 
>



-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Walter Bender]

FWIW, I wrote an app [1] to introduce teachers (in Australia) to the core
Sugar concepts (both UI and pedagogy). It would be easy to strip the app of
the AU-specifcs. A bit more challenging for i18n since the videos would
need to be redone. It make a big difference in the speed in which we were
able to bring teachers up to speed in AU, which had been a major bottleneck
in Sugar adoption. (Obviously, this doesn't solve any of the UX issues.)

[1] https://github.com/walterbender/training

-walter

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Sam Parkinson 
wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> I'm no longer afk.  I have collated the results into the attached
> spreedsheet.
>
> Previously, I also wrote up an analysis of the results.  It is also
> attached.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> On 22 April 2016 at 09:01, Laura Vargas  wrote:
>
>> Would be nice to have them published.
>>
>
> I'd like to help with this.
>
> Please could you share the Google Doc with me in edit mode,
> d.crossl...@gmail.com, so I can take a look at all the metadata? :)
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Dave Crossland]

On 24 April 2016 at 17:59, Sam Parkinson  wrote:

> You might be interested in this blog post that I wrote on the subject:
> https://www.sam.today/blog/sugar-onboard-user-testing.html
>

AWESOME! :D Here's the full text, I think everyone should read it :D

*Sugar Onboard: After user testing*

By Sam P., 25 April 2016

Software is only as good as it is discoverable. When you put Sugar in front
of a new user, some will take to it and others will not. However, some of
the parts of Sugar are not discoverable, for example, invoking the frame.

[A selection of the screenshots displayed]

To try to fix this, I designed and coded up Sugar Onboard
https://www.sam.today/blog/sugar-onboard-design.html

It was implemented in the "onboard" branches of my sugar,
sugar-toolkit-gtk3 and sugar-artwork git repos.

I then sat down with people and watched as they used it. I tasked by test
subjects to open and move between 2 activities running at the same time -
something which happens via the frame. I also observed the way that they
interacted with the software. I worked with 5 testers (
http://opensource-usability.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/how-many-testers-do-you-need.html)
all of whom where school age (Aust years 7-10) and how were very familiar
with traditional computers.

It didn't help.

Not only did my thing not help people find the frame (or anything else),
the added popups actually annoyed them. They didn't want to read the text
and they didn't find it helpful. Even with pictures, some instructions
where confusing for them. Really, it wasted their time.

So what would I do in the future? I would force them to read and interact
with the frame. My design was too big, it added to much. Too much of the
content was irrelevant, so people very quickly learnt to ignore it. I
needed to choose 1 thing, and be forceful and evil to teach them it. That
should have been forcefully teaching them to activate the frame, and
activate palettes.

I also had some big takeaways about the palette system. The tooltip part of
the palette system is great. Users find it very intuitive how fast the
tooltips activate. They also seem to intrinsically know that there should
be more there; they move their mouse over tooltips waiting for the
secondary popdown. However this is the issue that they had with the
palettes, the secondary popdown is too slow. In the time between the
primary and secondary popdown, the users had mostly become confused and
moved away. Maybe we could unify these popdowns and just always show the
full palette?

Usability testing was the most fun thing to do. I need to make more friends
so that I can do more of it. I learnt so much. You should give it a go too!

> the secondary popdown is too slow ... Maybe we could unify these popdowns
and just always show the full palette?


I agree 100% with this. As I understand it, making such a change has a 3
step process: writing a "design doc" to propose such a change, then
consensus that the design is an improvement (although who must make up the
consensus, I'm not sure), and then a pull request.

Is that right?
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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Sam Parkinson]

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 5:17 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

Hi Sam!

On 23 April 2016 at 00:45, Sam Parkinson  
wrote:


I'm no longer afk.  I have collated the results into the attached 
spreedsheet.


Previously, I also wrote up an analysis of the results.  It is also 
attached.


Awesome!! I uploaded the files to the wiki and added them to the 
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team page


For me the Pain Points and Important Features sections were very 
interesting! Thanks for putting this together!! :D


You proposed 3 Major Takeaways:

Users do not understand the design patterns in Sugar. This was 
signalled through two methods. Firstly, users prioritised a tour or 
explanation as an important feature. Secondly, users expressed 
confusion with the interface and frame.


I agree, a tour would be a great activity. When I purchased a new 
XO-1 in 2007 and a new XO-4 this year, it came with a little printed 
leaflet with some basics; and I think there is an assumption that the 
UI is discoverable by kids if they have unrestricted free time to 
play and explore it. However I haven't seen any UX-study-style 
testing of this assumption.


You might be interested in this blog post that I wrote on the subject:  
https://www.sam.today/blog/sugar-onboard-user-testing.html


https://turtle.sugarlabs.org has a welcome tour. Can something like 
that be done with PyGTK3?


Developer and deployers have differing opinions compared to students 
and teachers; eg. reducing Journal clutter is significantly more 
popular with developers and deployers than with students and 
educators.


That's interesting! I wonder if students/educators work around 
journal clutter, or if they don't consider it to be cluttered at all. 
Which deployments can we ask about this?


The most important features to the Sugar community are Browse 
activity, the Journal and Turtle Blocks. These are closely followed 
by Write activity, Collaboration, the Terminal and the Sugar style 
design.


I see that none of these are in the top 20 on 
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/browse/type:1/cat:all?sort=popular


I can see how Browse is the most important activity for people who 
can be online to take the survey... for deployments without effective 
internet access, I wonder if that is still the case.


Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Sam!

On 23 April 2016 at 00:45, Sam Parkinson  wrote:

>
> I'm no longer afk.  I have collated the results into the attached
> spreedsheet.
>
> Previously, I also wrote up an analysis of the results.  It is also
> attached.
>

Awesome!! I uploaded the files to the wiki and added them to the
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team page

For me the *Pain Points* and *Important Features *sections were very
interesting! Thanks for putting this together!! :D

You proposed 3 *Major Takeaways:*

Users do not understand the design patterns in Sugar. This was signalled
through two methods. Firstly, users prioritised a tour or explanation as an
important feature. Secondly, users expressed confusion with the interface
and frame.


I agree, a tour would be a great activity. When I purchased a new XO-1 in
2007 and a new XO-4 this year, it came with a little printed leaflet with
some basics; and I think there is an assumption that the UI is discoverable
by kids if they have unrestricted free time to play and explore it. However
I haven't seen any UX-study-style testing of this assumption.

https://turtle.sugarlabs.org has a welcome tour. Can something like that be
done with PyGTK3?

Developer and deployers have differing opinions compared to students and
teachers; eg. reducing Journal clutter is significantly more popular with
developers and deployers than with students and educators.


That's interesting! I wonder if students/educators work around journal
clutter, or if they don't consider it to be cluttered at all. Which
deployments can we ask about this?

The most important features to the Sugar community are Browse activity, the
Journal and Turtle Blocks. These are closely followed by Write activity,
Collaboration, the Terminal and the Sugar style design.


I see that none of these are in the top 20 on
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/browse/type:1/cat:all?sort=popular


I can see how Browse is the most important activity for people who can be
online to take the survey... for deployments without effective internet
access, I wonder if that is still the case.

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi!

On 22 April 2016 at 09:01, Laura Vargas  wrote:

> Would be nice to have them published.
>

I'd like to help with this.

Please could you share the Google Doc with me in edit mode,
d.crossl...@gmail.com, so I can take a look at all the metadata? :)

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Laura Vargas]

Would be nice to have them published.

Thanks Sam!



2016-04-12 11:24 GMT+08:00 Sam P. :

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I will remove this post asap.  The survey had indeed stopped.
>
> I will release the results.  Unfortunately I am currently away from my
> laptop.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
> On 12 April 2016 8:10:43 AM AEST, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >Hi Sam!
> >
> >Pinned to the top of https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org is a thread,
> >"Survey
> >- “How bad is Sugar (software)?”"
> >
> >Are the results of this survey available anywhere? :)
> >
> >If not, the survey contents is anonymous, so I don't see any reason to
> >keep
> >the full results private, but perhaps I'm missing something :)
> >
> >--
> >Cheers
> >Dave
>
> - --
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
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> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
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-- 
Laura V.
I SomosAZUCAR.Org

Identi.ca/Skype acaire
IRC kaametza

Happy Learning!
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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Sam P.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hi Dave,

I will remove this post asap.  The survey had indeed stopped.

I will release the results.  Unfortunately I am currently away from my laptop.

Thanks,
Sam

On 12 April 2016 8:10:43 AM AEST, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>Hi Sam!
>
>Pinned to the top of https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org is a thread,
>"Survey
>- “How bad is Sugar (software)?”"
>
>Are the results of this survey available anywhere? :)
>
>If not, the survey contents is anonymous, so I don't see any reason to
>keep
>the full results private, but perhaps I'm missing something :)
>
>--
>Cheers
>Dave

- --
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
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[IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Sam!

Pinned to the top of https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org is a thread, "Survey
- “How bad is Sugar (software)?”"

Are the results of this survey available anywhere? :)

If not, the survey contents is anonymous, so I don't see any reason to keep
the full results private, but perhaps I'm missing something :)

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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