Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Tony Forster wrote: >>It's working. You can see the palettes at > >>http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/c/cd/Iconic_Turtle_Art.odt > >>I'll extract some Journal entries using these tiles tomorrow and post >>them, along with a bundle of .svg files of tiles and palettes with >>installation instructions. I had to take care of an opportunity that arose this morning. I can get back to Turtle Art this evening. > Thanks, that's great news! Then we can get some user feedback > >>Nobody knows the age limit on teaching graphical programming. > Experience with Scratch and GameMaker is that it works at the whole of a > class down to > grade 3 though I have had smart individuals down to grade 1. But I note that > the > cognitive load is higher for these programming tools, they allow multiple > objects and are > event driven. The beauty of Turtle Art is its simplicity, only 1 object, the > turtle and > no need to get your head around events and their associated actions. > > So I agree, lets get something out there, get it road tested and refined and > see how low > it will go. > >> ←→↑↓↗↘↶↷↺↻√∡⊥∧∨∼ and others. > Was thinking, turtle motion arrows should have a picture of the turtle too - > to underline > that they are from the turtle's frame, not the child's. Done. > Younger children will have problems with mouse control, particularly with > the XO, maybe > the blocks should be bigger? > > In slow mode, the blocks could light up as they execute. > > Clean could be a pencil eraser or blackboard duster. > > Which are better for flow control, smileys or coloured dots? > > 0-= I prefer 012, if they can't recognise numerals they will have trouble > entering them > anyway. I am now using Chinese Counting Rod Numerals, which correspond to bead positions on an abacus. Horizontal lines represent 1s, vertical line represents 5. 𝍠𝍡𝍢𝍣𝍤𝍥𝍦𝍧𝍨 U+1D360-1D369, requires Unicode Symbols font, unicode.otf, or some other font with these characters from the Unicode SMP. > Where the graphic is not reasonably intuitive, maybe better to retain the > text? At least > an adult could read them. Walter is going to do tool tips, that would make > my point > irrelevant, graphics on blocks with text tooltips. +1 >>They don't need localization. This is important for children whose >>language of instruction is not their native language. English in >>Ghana, for example, or French until recently in Rwanda. > > Yes, reminds me of Vanuatu, their local language is spoken the village, > Bislama is the > national language but the language of instruction may be English or French. > I doubt we > would ever see localisation down to the local language level, maybe 1000 > speakers. > > Final thought. We are not eliminating language, just substituting one symbol > set for > another, hopefully more recognisable ones. Language in the wider sense is > symbols with > meanings which can be used for communication and as tools to think with. > Mathematics is a > language too. Though some blocks could have photorealistic symbols, we are > mostly using > abstract symbols like the arrow. (the arrow is based on the bow and arrow > but we have all > but forgotten the roots of its symbolism). Not I. I did a lot of archery in the Boy Scouts. > Which gives me another thought. Could we have animated images on the blocks. I know of animated gifs, but not animated svgs and pngs. But on looking, I see they exist. http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/animate.html http://animatedpng.com/ Are there Python libraries to manage them? Yes for png, no for svg. http://foone.org/apng/ Well, we'll have to ask Walter if he is willing to do this. On the other hand, it would greatly slow down turtle graphics to have these sprites on all of the tiles. Once we get an advanced XO with a graphics processor, it shouldn't be a problem. > Then we > could photorealistically represent actions like move and flow control. > > All just topics for discussion, very happy with what you have done, looking > forward to > the installable bundle. > > Tony > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
Tony Forster writes: > Nobody knows the age limit on teaching graphical programming. > > Experience with Scratch and GameMaker is that it works at the whole of a > class down to grade 3 though I have had smart individuals down to grade 1. > But I note that the cognitive load is higher for these programming tools, > they allow multiple objects and are event driven. The beauty of Turtle Art > is its simplicity, only 1 object, the turtle and no need to get your head > around events and their associated actions. > > So I agree, lets get something out there, get it road tested and refined > and see how low it will go. In terms of grade level, plain old BASIC on the Apple ][ went at least that low. It doesn't seem that "graphical" gets you anything other than layout trouble and a dead-end tiny-community language. > Where the graphic is not reasonably intuitive, maybe better to retain the > text? At least an adult could read them. Walter is going to do tool tips, > that would make my point irrelevant, graphics on blocks with text > tooltips. > >> They don't need localization. This is important for children whose >> language of instruction is not their native language. English in >> Ghana, for example, or French until recently in Rwanda. > > Yes, reminds me of Vanuatu, their local language is spoken the village, > Bislama is the national language but the language of instruction may be > English or French. I doubt we would ever see localisation down to the > local language level, maybe 1000 speakers. > > Final thought. We are not eliminating language, just substituting one > symbol set for another, hopefully more recognisable ones. Language in the > wider sense is symbols with meanings which can be used for communication > and as tools to think with. Mathematics is a language too. Though some > blocks could have photorealistic symbols, we are mostly using abstract > symbols like the arrow. (the arrow is based on the bow and arrow but we > have all but forgotten the roots of its symbolism). It is eliminating language by any usual definition. It's not right to provide equality by making everybody do without. You're right that translating for a language of 1000 speakers isn't all that likely, but **hurting** everybody else to acheive equality is a cure worse than the disease. (steal from the rich and... burn it) If you want to help these people to have a future without poverty, give them text in a language that can provide economic benefit. This would tend to be a national language. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:42, Tony Forster wrote: > > Yes, reminds me of Vanuatu, their local language is spoken the village, > Bislama is the > national language but the language of instruction may be English or French. > I doubt we > would ever see localisation down to the local language level, maybe 1000 > speakers. I think we shouldn't abandon the goal of encouraging our learners to appropriate the software they use. Free software makes it possible for a single motivated individual to localize all the software she uses and this makes Sugar a tool for culture preservation and dialog between cultures. We have been accused of imperialism and ethnocentrism because we are supposedly trying to impose our culture and view of the universe on other cultures. On the opposite, I think we can provide bridges so that all people can participate in equal terms on global discourse. It's very interesting to see how Quechua speakers discuss the new vocabulary for computing terms. For other languages, we'll see discussions about how to put them in written form. As languages evolve when used by young people, cheap computers with internet access can serve as mediums for recording and publication of the older people's use of language, the regional variations in remote areas, art expressions becoming in disuse, etc, etc. Regards, Tomeu > Final thought. We are not eliminating language, just substituting one symbol > set for > another, hopefully more recognisable ones. Language in the wider sense is > symbols with > meanings which can be used for communication and as tools to think with. > Mathematics is a > language too. Though some blocks could have photorealistic symbols, we are > mostly using > abstract symbols like the arrow. (the arrow is based on the bow and arrow > but we have all > but forgotten the roots of its symbolism). > > Which gives me another thought. Could we have animated images on the blocks. > Then we > could photorealistically represent actions like move and flow control. > > All just topics for discussion, very happy with what you have done, looking > forward to > the installable bundle. > > Tony > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
On 17.06.2009, at 11:42, Tony Forster wrote: >> Nobody knows the age limit on teaching graphical programming. > > > Experience with Scratch and GameMaker is that it works at the whole > of a class down to > grade 3 though I have had smart individuals down to grade 1. But I > note that the > cognitive load is higher for these programming tools, they allow > multiple objects and are > event driven. The beauty of Turtle Art is its simplicity, only 1 > object, the turtle and > no need to get your head around events and their associated actions. When discussing this for pre-school kids you should definitively have a look at Mikael Kindborg's PhD thesis, and the associated software "Magic Words". He recently released it as open source (which misses some of the artwork, examples, and scenarios): http://www.comikit.se/ It's prepared to be localized with text or graphics. Mac version: http://www.comikit.se/DownloadMagicWordsMac.php (unzip, double click "MagicWords.image") Windows version: http://www.comikit.se/DownloadMagicWordsWin.php (unzip, double click "MagicWords.exe") Linux + other platforms: http://www.comikit.se/DownloadMagicWordsFiles.php (unzip, type "squeak /path/to/MagicWords.image") - Bert - ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
>It's working. You can see the palettes at >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/c/cd/Iconic_Turtle_Art.odt >I'll extract some Journal entries using these tiles tomorrow and post >them, along with a bundle of .svg files of tiles and palettes with >installation instructions. Thanks, that's great news! Then we can get some user feedback >Nobody knows the age limit on teaching graphical programming. Experience with Scratch and GameMaker is that it works at the whole of a class down to grade 3 though I have had smart individuals down to grade 1. But I note that the cognitive load is higher for these programming tools, they allow multiple objects and are event driven. The beauty of Turtle Art is its simplicity, only 1 object, the turtle and no need to get your head around events and their associated actions. So I agree, lets get something out there, get it road tested and refined and see how low it will go. > ←→↑↓↗↘↶↷↺↻√∡⊥∧∨∼ and others. Was thinking, turtle motion arrows should have a picture of the turtle too - to underline that they are from the turtle's frame, not the child's. Younger children will have problems with mouse control, particularly with the XO, maybe the blocks should be bigger? In slow mode, the blocks could light up as they execute. Clean could be a pencil eraser or blackboard duster. Which are better for flow control, smileys or coloured dots? 0-= I prefer 012, if they can't recognise numerals they will have trouble entering them anyway. Where the graphic is not reasonably intuitive, maybe better to retain the text? At least an adult could read them. Walter is going to do tool tips, that would make my point irrelevant, graphics on blocks with text tooltips. >They don't need localization. This is important for children whose >language of instruction is not their native language. English in >Ghana, for example, or French until recently in Rwanda. Yes, reminds me of Vanuatu, their local language is spoken the village, Bislama is the national language but the language of instruction may be English or French. I doubt we would ever see localisation down to the local language level, maybe 1000 speakers. Final thought. We are not eliminating language, just substituting one symbol set for another, hopefully more recognisable ones. Language in the wider sense is symbols with meanings which can be used for communication and as tools to think with. Mathematics is a language too. Though some blocks could have photorealistic symbols, we are mostly using abstract symbols like the arrow. (the arrow is based on the bow and arrow but we have all but forgotten the roots of its symbolism). Which gives me another thought. Could we have animated images on the blocks. Then we could photorealistically represent actions like move and flow control. All just topics for discussion, very happy with what you have done, looking forward to the installable bundle. Tony ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:19, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > On 17.06.2009, at 09:32, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:08 PM, wrote: > >> > >> I think the mathematics blocks are best left as is. > > > > I insist on using ÷ rather than /, and I want to try other math > > symbols. > > > Though you would have to localize them. Kids around here learn · and : > instead of × and ÷. Maybe localizing won't be enough, I used all four at some point in basic school. Not sure if it was teacher preference or a change in the national curricula (Spain). Regards, Tomeu > - Bert - > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
On 17.06.2009, at 09:32, Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:08 PM, wrote: >> >> I think the mathematics blocks are best left as is. > > I insist on using ÷ rather than /, and I want to try other math > symbols. Though you would have to localize them. Kids around here learn · and : instead of × and ÷. - Bert - ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:08 PM, wrote: > Edward wrote > > "I am working on a version of Turtle Art > that will use icons rather than text labels on the tiles, and I want > to test how much of it the preliterate can grasp, and what we can > teach using that capability. We can demonstrate many topics in Turtle > Art, even if the children can't yet program such demos unaided." It's working. You can see the palettes at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/c/cd/Iconic_Turtle_Art.odt I'll extract some Journal entries using these tiles tomorrow and post them, along with a bundle of .svg files of tiles and palettes with installation instructions. Text programming is known to work in third grade, starting by showing children how to change parameters, then how to write expressions, then how to change logic. I know of such projects in several languages, including Logo, LISP, SmallTalk, and APL. In a year or two they can write their own simple programs from scratch. APL also works as a math language starting with first-grade arithmetic. There is, of course, the well-known problem of weird APL symbols such as × and ÷. ^_^ Nobody knows the age limit on teaching graphical programming. I make an analogy with teaching arithmetic and elementary ideas of algebra (associativity, commutativity, etc.) to the prenumerate using Cuisenaire rods. I thus predict that a significant realm will work, and that it will take a lot of patient experimenting to find out how. I also predict that giving preschoolers a sound understanding of math concepts without numbers, notations, and formulas will improve matters later on when we introduce the rest of the apparatus. > Edward, to progress discussion, I have done a mock up graphic at > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Tonyforster > > I have only done some blocks. I have concentrated on turtle motion, pen and > flow control. Just so. We have very similar ideas. I used Unicode characters for my icons in most cases, rather than draw them. ←→↑↓↗↘↶↷↺↻√∡⊥∧∨∼ and others. > I think the mathematics blocks are best left as is. I insist on using ÷ rather than /, and I want to try other math symbols. > Others, eg push and pop heap may be too difficult for pre-literate children > to bother with. We know that young children can manage a stack of dishes, or a stack of paper. So I intend to try stacks of numbers. > Likewise the portfolio and red box tabs. We shall see. I don't expect preschool children to program in Python, of course. > (Maybe keyboard input is important enough to bother with but the 2 step > process it uses, one block to read kyb and another for its value, is > conceptually difficult. First the interface should be simplified.) > > Questions the exercise has raised for me: > > To what extent could pre-literate children use Turtle Art? Something to test. > Are graphics on blocks really better than text? They don't need localization. This is important for children whose language of instruction is not their native language. English in Ghana, for example, or French until recently in Rwanda. Otherwise, something to test. > Does keeping text labels help develop literacy? I doubt it, particularly compared with real literacy programs, such as Same Language Subtitling. > What graphics are best? We must ask the children. > Should the more difficult blocks be omitted or kept with text labels? Test everything. > Should they be on different tabs if retained? Keep the current palettes for now. > Where can we do user testing and get feedback? Various people have offered their children for the purpose. Now we have to ask the children what they like better. > Tony > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
Thank you so much for compiling this list. It's most instructive. The topic made me think about language development and its deep connections with cognitive development. A kid adopted at the age of 8-10 can forget his native language, but brain activity in languages learned after the age of seven or so is distinguishable on MRI scans from brain activity in native languages. There are also measurable differences in behavior. Those of you who know several languages fluently can easily experiment with mental arithmetic tasks, such as multiplying two-digit numbers. Even if you fluently think, read, write and talk in a non-native language, your arithmetic in it will be slower and much more prone to mistakes. So, I think we have to work with kids under six if we want our proposed culture changes to become native to the next generation. The attention of too many researchers and developers to older kids exclusively, described in the articles below, is most unfortunate in that respect. Even though each individual piece of research and development is valuable, the trend of avoiding young kids makes culture change efforts sluggish. This trend parallels what happens in mathematics education with regards to Early Algebra. A few years ago, I worked on a prototype for an algebraic reasoning software suite that had qualitative parts accessible for preliterate kids, such as combinatorial grids vs. number operation grids, or picture transformation function machines vs. numeric function machines. The most frequently asked question about it was, "But where is algebra?" The amount of reverse engineering of each domain required to make it accessible to young children is prohibitive for a lot of practitioners and researchers. For example, grid tasks involve complex growth of understanding about co-variation, typically starting from noticing local grid patterns among neighbor cells, progressing to row and column ideas, branching into "jigsaw" tasks about taking grids apart and putting them together, and finally arriving at coordinating row and column variation and formalizing grid operation globally. Each step of the way, there are learning tasks supporting particular pieces of reasoning. Design of the tasks is informed by "grown-up" grid concepts - that's why it feels like reverse engineering - but it's based on what works with 3-6 yo. I suggest always enlisting parents, especially attachment parenting mothers of young kids, in the role of consultants. Pretty often, upon looking at research or design write-up, mothers raise their eyebrows and say: "Have these people even been around young kids? Here is what I would do..." -- Cheers, MariaD Make math your own, to make your own math. http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://groups.google.com/group/naturalmath future math culture email group http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:42 AM, wrote: > >> Radia Perlman in the 70s when at student at MIT did extensive experiments >> with preliterate children and the LOGO turtle and built a number of >> interfaces for them. She also spent some time at Xerox PARC where we >> duplicated her interfaces and did many similar experiments with chldren 3 >> years on up. > > thanks, found : > http://www.formatex.org/micte2006/virtual/pdf/582.pdf > see fig 3 with plastic cards showing visual images of turtle commands > > http://www.formatex.org/micte2006/virtual/ppt/582.ppt > similar image > > http://logothings.wikispaces.com/ > towards the end, photo of Radia Perlman's Button Box for Pre-Schoolers > > http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~mcnerney/personal-ubicomp.pdf > more discussion than the above > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
> Radia Perlman in the 70s when at student at MIT did extensive experiments > with preliterate children and the LOGO turtle and built a number of > interfaces for them. She also spent some time at Xerox PARC where we > duplicated her interfaces and did many similar experiments with chldren 3 > years on up. thanks, found : http://www.formatex.org/micte2006/virtual/pdf/582.pdf see fig 3 with plastic cards showing visual images of turtle commands http://www.formatex.org/micte2006/virtual/ppt/582.ppt similar image http://logothings.wikispaces.com/ towards the end, photo of Radia Perlman's Button Box for Pre-Schoolers http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~mcnerney/personal-ubicomp.pdf more discussion than the above ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
Hi Folks, Radia Perlman in the 70s when at student at MIT did extensive experiments with preliterate children and the LOGO turtle and built a number of interfaces for them. She also spent some time at Xerox PARC where we duplicated her interfaces and did many similar experiments with chldren 3 years on up. Might be worth exploring what's already been done here to get ideas and takeoff points. Cheers, Alan From: "fors...@ozonline.com.au" To: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:08:26 PM Subject: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten Edward wrote "I am working on a version of Turtle Art that will use icons rather than text labels on the tiles, and I want to test how much of it the preliterate can grasp, and what we can teach using that capability. We can demonstrate many topics in Turtle Art, even if the children can't yet program such demos unaided." Edward, to progress discussion, I have done a mock up graphic at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Tonyforster I have only done some blocks. I have concentrated on turtle motion, pen and flow control. I think the mathematics blocks are best left as is. Others, eg push and pop heap may be too difficult for pre-literate children to bother with. Likewise the portfolio and red box tabs. (Maybe keyboard input is important enough to bother with but the 2 step process it uses, one block to read kyb and another for its value, is conceptually difficult. First the interface should be simplified.) Questions the exercise has raised for me: To what extent could pre-literate children use Turtle Art? Are graphics on blocks really better than text? Does keeping text labels help develop literacy? What graphics are best? Should the more difficult blocks be omitted or kept with text labels? Should they be on different tabs if retained? Where can we do user testing and get feedback? Tony ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
I really need to get hover tool tips working... -walter On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:08 PM, wrote: > Edward wrote > > "I am working on a version of Turtle Art > that will use icons rather than text labels on the tiles, and I want > to test how much of it the preliterate can grasp, and what we can > teach using that capability. We can demonstrate many topics in Turtle > Art, even if the children can't yet program such demos unaided." > > Edward, to progress discussion, I have done a mock up graphic at > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Tonyforster > > I have only done some blocks. I have concentrated on turtle motion, pen and > flow control. > > I think the mathematics blocks are best left as is. > > Others, eg push and pop heap may be too difficult for pre-literate children > to bother with. Likewise the portfolio and red box tabs. > > (Maybe keyboard input is important enough to bother with but the 2 step > process it uses, one block to read kyb and another for its value, is > conceptually difficult. First the interface should be simplified.) > > Questions the exercise has raised for me: > > To what extent could pre-literate children use Turtle Art? > Are graphics on blocks really better than text? > Does keeping text labels help develop literacy? > What graphics are best? > Should the more difficult blocks be omitted or kept with text labels? > Should they be on different tabs if retained? > Where can we do user testing and get feedback? > > Tony > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
Edward wrote "I am working on a version of Turtle Art that will use icons rather than text labels on the tiles, and I want to test how much of it the preliterate can grasp, and what we can teach using that capability. We can demonstrate many topics in Turtle Art, even if the children can't yet program such demos unaided." Edward, to progress discussion, I have done a mock up graphic at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Tonyforster I have only done some blocks. I have concentrated on turtle motion, pen and flow control. I think the mathematics blocks are best left as is. Others, eg push and pop heap may be too difficult for pre-literate children to bother with. Likewise the portfolio and red box tabs. (Maybe keyboard input is important enough to bother with but the 2 step process it uses, one block to read kyb and another for its value, is conceptually difficult. First the interface should be simplified.) Questions the exercise has raised for me: To what extent could pre-literate children use Turtle Art? Are graphics on blocks really better than text? Does keeping text labels help develop literacy? What graphics are best? Should the more difficult blocks be omitted or kept with text labels? Should they be on different tabs if retained? Where can we do user testing and get feedback? Tony ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: > On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Christoph Derndorfer > wrote: >> Hola Alejandro, >> >> I'm currently not aware of any other OLPC or Sugar projects working with >> children at that age. Most pilots and deployments currently seem to be >> focused on primary-school children (age 6 to 10). We know that pre-schoolers love the camera, and can use Paint and some other non-verbal Activities. I am working on a version of Turtle Art that will use icons rather than text labels on the tiles, and I want to test how much of it the preliterate can grasp, and what we can teach using that capability. We can demonstrate many topics in Turtle Art, even if the children can't yet program such demos unaided. Most math ideas have a visual version using no numbers, symbols, or other such apparatus. The two fundamental ideas of calculus are the direction of a curve, defined by the tangent line at a point, and the area under a curve. No calculation needed. We can do much of this directly with physical objects. Most of algebra can be shown as intersections of lines and curves. Most of arithmetic and a good deal more is easily demonstrated in Cuisenaire rods. I want to have a project to gather together all of the math ideas that children have particular difficulty with, and to create visualizations for all of them, preferably at a pre-school level. > We have a local Montessori that has two XOs and is considering using > them with the 4 to 5 year olds. They haven't started yet, but it would > be interesting to see what their experience is like once they begin in > the summer. Can you put me into contact with them? I think that Maria Montessori would have jumped up and down like the kids in our logo o X at the thought of what children can discover with an XO, and at the prospect of finding out at what age they are most ready for each part of it. > Sameer > -- > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Information Systems > San Francisco State University > San Francisco CA 94132 USA > http://verma.sfsu.edu/ > http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ > >> What kind of educational activities did you have in mind? >> >> One really great activity is the TypingTurtle >> (http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4026), the Memory >> activity also seems to be really popular with the the first-graders in >> our small Austrian OLPC / Sugar pilot. >> >> By the way, I'm also copying the "It's an education project" >> mailing-list (http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep), people there >> might have some good pointers for you. >> >> Hope that helps, >> Christoph >> >> Alejandro Fernandez schrieb: >>> Hi, >>> I'd like to get in contact with those using XOs with kids under 5. >>> >>> I am helping a group of kindergarten teachers use a pair of OLPC >>> I got for them. Last year we made a small experience teaching kids to >>> use the XO to take pictures and video. Then, they took the XO home, >>> taught their family how to use it, recorded greetings, and browsed the >>> greetings and pictures left by other families. They enjoyed it. >>> >>> This year we are planning to use them as educational tool (that >>> is, adding value not just technology). >>> >>> Pointers to books, blogs, pedagogical patterns, activities, and >>> notes are welcomed. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Alejandro >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Christoph Derndorfer >> co-editor, olpcnews >> url: www.olpcnews.com >> e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com >> ___ >> Grassroots mailing list >> grassro...@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/grassroots >> > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
Caroline, I am not in touch with them, and I probably should be. I think they will be at a summer meeting in Washington I plan to attend. Are there RIT people in this email group? On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Caroline Meeks wrote: > Hi Maria, > > Are you in touch with the 4th grade math project out of RIT? > > Thanks! > Caroline > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Maria Droujkova > wrote: >> >> My company has developed some software prototypes for early algebra >> that could work for 4-6 year olds. I would be interested in adopting >> these ideas for OLPC, but I'd need some collaborators for that. > -- Cheers, MariaD Make math your own, to make your own math. http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://groups.google.com/group/naturalmath our email group http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
Hi Maria, Are you in touch with the 4th grade math project out of RIT? Thanks! Caroline On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Maria Droujkova wrote: > My company has developed some software prototypes for early algebra > that could work for 4-6 year olds. I would be interested in adopting > these ideas for OLPC, but I'd need some collaborators for that. > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Christoph Derndorfer > > wrote: > >> Hola Alejandro, > >> > >> I'm currently not aware of any other OLPC or Sugar projects working with > >> children at that age. Most pilots and deployments currently seem to be > >> focused on primary-school children (age 6 to 10). > >> > > > > -- > Cheers, > MariaD > > Make math your own, to make your own math. > > http://www.naturalmath.com social math site > http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
My company has developed some software prototypes for early algebra that could work for 4-6 year olds. I would be interested in adopting these ideas for OLPC, but I'd need some collaborators for that. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: > On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Christoph Derndorfer > wrote: >> Hola Alejandro, >> >> I'm currently not aware of any other OLPC or Sugar projects working with >> children at that age. Most pilots and deployments currently seem to be >> focused on primary-school children (age 6 to 10). >> -- Cheers, MariaD Make math your own, to make your own math. http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: > Hola Alejandro, > > I'm currently not aware of any other OLPC or Sugar projects working with > children at that age. Most pilots and deployments currently seem to be > focused on primary-school children (age 6 to 10). > We have a local Montessori that has two XOs and is considering using them with the 4 to 5 year olds. They haven't started yet, but it would be interesting to see what their experience is like once they begin in the summer. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ > What kind of educational activities did you have in mind? > > One really great activity is the TypingTurtle > (http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4026), the Memory > activity also seems to be really popular with the the first-graders in > our small Austrian OLPC / Sugar pilot. > > By the way, I'm also copying the "It's an education project" > mailing-list (http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep), people there > might have some good pointers for you. > > Hope that helps, > Christoph > > Alejandro Fernandez schrieb: >> Hi, >> I'd like to get in contact with those using XOs with kids under 5. >> >> I am helping a group of kindergarten teachers use a pair of OLPC >> I got for them. Last year we made a small experience teaching kids to >> use the XO to take pictures and video. Then, they took the XO home, >> taught their family how to use it, recorded greetings, and browsed the >> greetings and pictures left by other families. They enjoyed it. >> >> This year we are planning to use them as educational tool (that >> is, adding value not just technology). >> >> Pointers to books, blogs, pedagogical patterns, activities, and >> notes are welcomed. >> >> Regards, >> Alejandro >> >> > > -- > Christoph Derndorfer > co-editor, olpcnews > url: www.olpcnews.com > e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com > ___ > Grassroots mailing list > grassro...@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/grassroots > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] OLPC in Kindergarten
Hola Alejandro, I'm currently not aware of any other OLPC or Sugar projects working with children at that age. Most pilots and deployments currently seem to be focused on primary-school children (age 6 to 10). What kind of educational activities did you have in mind? One really great activity is the TypingTurtle (http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4026), the Memory activity also seems to be really popular with the the first-graders in our small Austrian OLPC / Sugar pilot. By the way, I'm also copying the "It's an education project" mailing-list (http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep), people there might have some good pointers for you. Hope that helps, Christoph Alejandro Fernandez schrieb: > Hi, > I'd like to get in contact with those using XOs with kids under 5. > > I am helping a group of kindergarten teachers use a pair of OLPC > I got for them. Last year we made a small experience teaching kids to > use the XO to take pictures and video. Then, they took the XO home, > taught their family how to use it, recorded greetings, and browsed the > greetings and pictures left by other families. They enjoyed it. > > This year we are planning to use them as educational tool (that > is, adding value not just technology). > > Pointers to books, blogs, pedagogical patterns, activities, and > notes are welcomed. > > Regards, > Alejandro > > -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
