On 12 Jan 2010 14:28:02 -0800, rfocht...@ync.net (Rick Fochtman)
wrote:
---snip-
Shops like Fry's always annoy me when they ask for my Driver's license,
make a cursory comparison of the picture and my name with my face and
the card,
Howard Brazee howard.bra...@cusys.edu writes:
And the IS community has to realize that any solution is flawed if it
requires these salesmen and/or everybody who does on-line shopping to
be experts in security.
we had been called in to consult with a small client/server startup that
wanted to
.html#98 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
a lot of record retention is by UCC which most states follow ...
aka like for checks:
http://www.bankersonline.com/compliance/gurus_cmp1001l.html
above references if the items are not returned to customer ... in
the credit card slip case
for tens of thousand (or millions)
... rather than a few tens.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#97 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
skimming news item from today:
ATM Skimming Incidents Increase
http://www.bankinfosecurity.com/articles.php?art_id=2059
frequently
On 11 Jan 2010 13:56:09 -0800, p...@voltage.com (Phil Smith) wrote:
Fourth, Magstripe cards are easy to copy; chip-and-pin cards are (supposedly)
not.
Which effectiveness can be measured.
As for asking for a license, sure, it doesn't guarantee anything -- but it
probably stops the kid
who
Lots of people have been taught (by popular media?) to not sign their
credit cards.Instead, the vendor will ask to see their signature
on a different ID.
I don't know if this advice has been backed up by actual figures. We
get *lots* of advice from people who think their advice makes sense,
to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#2 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
there was recent case in the UK where an individual needed a copy of the
ATM machine video recording to prove that they didn't make the
withdrawel ... since the bank wasn't
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Howard Brazee
Lots of people have been taught (by popular media?) to not sign their
credit cards.Instead, the vendor will ask to see their signature
on a different ID.
I printed REQUEST PHOTO ID in the
---snip--
I disagree. The basic operation of a credit card at the get go was for
the customer to be authenticated by comparing the signature on the
voucher with the one on the card. If they don't match the vendor refuses
the
the merchant's real name)
Chuck
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
That's
Well chip cards need a pin number to be entered or they don't work! And i am
the only guy who knows the pin number of my card.
It is not full proof but the merchant generally knows it's you because you
have entered the proper pin number
Or did i miss something ?
Bruno Sugliani
, if not less, secure than
the regular plastic we use today.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#71 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#72 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#73 Korean
Howard Brazee howard.bra...@cusys.edu writes:
We probably need to go bio-metric - but this is including on-line
purchases.Our current system of random, unique, not-written-down
passwords does not work.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#93 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
my signature at the time of
the purchase.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#93 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
the signature isn't a fraud countermeasure ... it is a dispute issue.
if you dispute the charge and the merchant doesn't even have signed
receipt
Does that mean you never use self service gasoline pumps?
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Hardee, Charles H
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:21 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
I disagree. The basic operation of a credit card at the get go was for the
customer to be authenticated by comparing the signature on the voucher with
the one on the card. If they don't match the vendor refuses the transaction.
This is still the basic MO for credit card transactions.
Shops like
I disagree.
The basic operation of a credit card at the get go was for the
customer to be authenticated by comparing the signature on the voucher with the
one on the card.
If they don't match the vendor refuses the transaction.
This is still the basic MO for credit card transactions.
The basic
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Ron Hawkins
ron.hawkins1...@sbcglobal.netwrote:
I disagree. The basic operation of a credit card at the get go was for the
customer to be authenticated by comparing the signature on the voucher with
the one on the card. If they don't match the vendor refuses
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Hardee, Charles H
charles.har...@ca.com wrote:
I, too, don't see how they can be more secure.
Possession is supposedly 9/10ths as the saying goes, but unless there's
something bio-metric in the chip/card/human being relationship, I would
have to say that the
back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#73 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#93 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#95 Korean bank Moves back
t...@harminc.net (Tony Harminc) writes:
I'm not sure why this offends you so much. How would it help anything
if the cashier checked your signature? Such checking is highly
unreliable, and contributes much less to authentication than does the
data they already know about the transaction.
at
] Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not
back)
I disagree.
The basic operation of a credit card at the get go was for the
customer to be authenticated by comparing the signature on the voucher
with
the one on the card.
If they don't match the vendor refuses the transaction.
This is still
True, but the requirement to sign the slip with a signature that matches the
card would be an equal deterrent. The D/L check would be redundant if the
store checked the signatures in the first place.
As for asking for a license, sure, it doesn't guarantee anything -- but it
probably stops the
I'm talking about credit cards, not debit cards. What point are you trying
to make about signatures on credit cards? As for signatures on cheques, it
was the responsibility of the paying Bank to verify the signatures. The
Maybe I'm obtuse, but what is the difference in authentication for a debit
Ron Hawkins ron.hawkins1...@sbcglobal.net
True, but the requirement to sign the slip with a signature that matches
the
card would be an equal deterrent. The D/L check would be redundant if
the
store checked the signatures in the first place.
Provided that the signature hasn't worn off,
Jack,
According to the web site you referenced they can ask for ID, but for VISA
and MasterCard they cannot refuse to complete the transaction if you do not
comply.
I'm tempted to test this the next time I'm asked...
Ron
In California, a merchant is allowed to ask to see ID for a credit
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Ron Hawkins
ron.hawkins1...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Jack,
According to the web site you referenced they can ask for ID, but for VISA
and MasterCard they cannot refuse to complete the transaction if you do not
comply.
I'm tempted to test this the next time I'm
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not
back)
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Ron Hawkins
ron.hawkins1...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Jack,
According to the web site you referenced they can ask for ID, but for
VISA
and MasterCard they cannot refuse to complete
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:59 PM, Anne Lynn Wheeler l...@garlic.comwrote:
t...@harminc.net (Tony Harminc) writes:
I'm not sure why this offends you so much. How would it help anything
if the cashier checked your signature? Such checking is highly
unreliable, and contributes much less to
Well loose one gain one.
I saw a post on the z/VM list that the University of Maine just shut down their
mainframe operation.
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote:
From: Chase, John jch...@ussco.com
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well.
e99...@jp.ibm.com (Timothy Sipples) writes:
So it's very important to decode that term whenever having detailed
conversations about scale, sizing, growth, and
That's not the correct headline.
BC Card isn't moving *back* to mainframes. In its 27+ year history, BC Card
has never had a mainframe -- nothing in the System z lineage, anyway. They
are now replacing HP and Sun UNIX servers, and Oracle databases, with (a
presumably small number of) IBM
There are other business related inaccuracies in the article as well. The
article indicates that they process hundreds of millions of Credit Card
transactions a day. Having previously worked at a large credit card
processor in the US, it can be said with certainty that the S. Korean credit
card
...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Sam Siegel
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 4:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
There are other business related inaccuracies in the article as well.
The
article indicates that they process hundreds
, 2010 11:42 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
I will bow to the man with direct experience ... Base on reading the article
it appeared to be talking about traditional Credit Card processing. It was
not clear to someone without directly
11:42 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
I will bow to the man with direct experience ... Base on reading the
article
it appeared to be talking about traditional Credit Card processing. It
was
not clear to someone without directly
[mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Hal Merritt
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:00 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
Concur. It would appear that the consumer electronic financial
infrastructures are quite different outside
That's the point of (EMV) chip cards. They are inherently more secure.
Why are they more secure?
INTERAC Canada has been telling us that they are.
So far, on their web-site, the proof presented has been: They are more secure.
When they sent me my new chip card, through the bank I use, nothing
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
Concur. It would appear that the consumer electronic financial
infrastructures are quite different
outside of the US. Indeed, ours seems pretty primitive and a lot less
consumer friendly. More, they
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [On Behalf Of Roach, Dennis
(N-GHG)
The number is not that surprising when you stop and think about the no
cash on hand philosophy.
Think of using your debit/bank/credit/atm card for everything you buy.
Morning coffee,
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote:
That's the point of (EMV) chip cards. They are inherently more secure.
Why are they more secure?
INTERAC Canada has been telling us that they are.
So far, on their web-site, the proof presented has been: They are more
a lot more to it than that but, right from that basic level,
the chip is inherently more secure that the stripe. I don't need Interac to
tell me that.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:36:37 +
From: eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back
On 7 Jan 2010 10:26:24 -0800, jayare...@hotmail.com (J R) wrote:
... they don't use 'credit cards' as we know them in Asia. Rather, it is
more of a 'smart card' strategy.
The US is at least 12 years behind Europe, Australia/NZ and parts of Asia in
deploying chip cards.
Yep. This
Expire Date: 01/07/2012
To
IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
cc
Subject
Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
On 7 Jan 2010 10:26:24 -0800, jayare...@hotmail.com (J R) wrote:
... they don't use 'credit cards' as we know them in Asia. Rather, it
is more of a 'smart card' strategy.
The US
On 7 Jan 2010 10:31:19 -0800, dennis.ro...@lmco.com (Roach, Dennis ,
N-GHG) wrote:
The number is not that surprising when you stop and think about the no cash on
hand philosophy.
Think of using your debit/bank/credit/atm card for everything you buy.
Morning coffee, newspaper, breakfast.
it.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 12:35:38 -0700
From: howard.bra...@cusys.edu
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
On 7 Jan 2010 10:26:24 -0800, jayare...@hotmail.com (J R) wrote:
... they don't use 'credit cards' as we know them in Asia. Rather
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well.
jayare...@hotmail.com (J R) writes:
That's the point of (EMV) chip cards. They are inherently more secure.
modulo when there are significantly less secure ...
variety came out.Maybe
now that we see higher security and privacy needs, we will get a
better model here as well.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#71 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
there was actually a rather large deployment in the NE about the time
It also discussed programs done by anti-terrorists and anti-fraud
units which check for suspicious withdrawals.
Everything gets tracked.I haven't worked for a bank IS, but it could be
interesting to develop such programs.
Banks, at least in Canada, have been running
The chip is not just data; it is a processor. All data exchanged between the
card (ie. the chip) and the terminal is encrypted.
Why can't their web-site say that?
There's obviously a lot more to it than that but, right from that basic level,
the chip is inherently more secure that the
On 7 Jan 2010 11:44:55 -0800, john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown,
John) wrote:
Perhaps the Korean banks are competent? And they can make money by not paying
the account
holder all the income that the bank makes on the money entrusted to them? U.S.
banks used to
be user friendly and
On 7 Jan 2010 11:16:06 -0800, jayare...@hotmail.com (J R) wrote:
Why are they more secure?
On a mag-stripe card, the data is right there, unencrypted for anyone to read
and,
if they so desire, clone.
The chip is not just data; it is a processor. All data exchanged between the
card
On 7 Jan 2010 12:22:08 -0800, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote:
I got flagged once, at work, for using a very vile word in an e-mail.
I didn't. I was just discussing Soccer and a town that ended in thorpe'.
The word was pulled out of the middle of a larger word, without delimeters.
I
that for your convenience. (Not anybody else's since they
wouldn't know the PIN.)
However, being a smart card with a processor on it, you should be able to
change your PIN at an ATM.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 20:26:39 +
From: eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back
at campaigning!
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Sam Siegel
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6
the technology to use
mag-strip cards have access to the technology to use chip cards? I
don't know the answer.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#71 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
(...no, not back)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#72 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes
I presume they did that for your convenience. (Not anybody else's since they
wouldn't know the PIN.)
However, being a smart card with a processor on it, you should be able to
change your PIN at an ATM.
Yes!
But, the PIN is supposed to be a secret.
Give me the chip-card, and have me come in
:51:52 +
From: eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
I presume they did that for your convenience. (Not anybody else's since they
wouldn't know the PIN.)
However, being a smart card with a processor on it, you
Of course, I meant wringer!
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:03:24 -0500
From: jayare...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
But, the PIN is supposed to be a secret.
They make a point of not knowing what your
On 7 Jan 2010 12:27:09 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
The chip is not just data; it is a processor. All data exchanged between the
card (ie. the chip) and the terminal is encrypted.
Why can't their web-site say that?
There's obviously a lot more to it than that but, right from
2010 19:29:56 -0400
From: cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca
Subject: OT smart cards was Re: Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no,
not back)
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Is the PIN on the card or is it at the bank where they assigned the
one you already had on the debit card
Is the PIN on the card or is it at the bank where they assigned the
one you already had on the debit card to it?
When I went in to get my (pre-chip) card, there was some processing and
encoding done on the card after I entered my (new) PIN.
I assume there is something on the card, because you
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Timothy Sipples e99...@jp.ibm.com wrote:
I should say right up front that I am not an expert on Korean banking.
Also, I have no idea whether the following remarks apply to BC Card
specifically.
One commenter in this thread suggested that the number of
What I sometimes find -- and not just in Korea -- is that the term
transactions has different meanings depending on whom you're talking to.
The business users and managers tend to think of measurements like card
swipes, purchases, etc. -- the direct business metrics.
However, the IT staff tend to
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