Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies
Your "Yes, and COND is easy to understand; it's also unnatural in that it requires using the brain as well as the fingers." is a fantasy that has no rational connection to what I wrote. Sean Spicer would be proud of you. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of CM Poncelet [ponce...@bcs.org.uk] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 11:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies As in "Thank you for putting words in my mouth" and "Yes, and COND is easy to understand; it's also unnatural in that itrequires using the brain as well as the fingers. OK, got it. Thanks for explaining?" - or what other "I'd rather speak for myself. Alternative facts?" On 22/05/2021 04:04, Seymour J Metz wrote: > Thank you for putting words in my mouth. However, I'd rather speak for > myself. Alternative facts? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of > CM Poncelet [ponce...@bcs.org.uk] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 10:43 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS > Technologies > > A well-known Bank I was working at, as a systems programming consultant > (in '99,) asked me to install custompac. So I did that and checked it > out. It was so full of errors, including that the user enter the MCAT > password and the hlq of PARMLIB (and of whatever else,) for it to > function, never mind its then allocating dozens of CYLs and (if memory > serves) 100's of directory blocks to SAMPLIB which, after the install, > contained no more than a dozen or so of members - and then > underestimated the DASD space and directory blocks required for SMPPTFIN > and whatever the DLIB/TLIB loadlibs were, causing S*37 abends when it > was executed. I pointed this out to the Bank and suggested that I write > my own version of it. They gave me the go-ahead. My version then did > everything custompac was supposed to do, including updating all its > "logs" and datasets etc. and being 100% compatible with custompac - but > requiring only two inputs from the user, with no MCAT password or > PARMLIB etc. hlqs needed - and it genned all the correct SMP/E JCL to > install/update the Bank's products. > > Later on, IBM kept on asking me to explain to them - and for weeks - how > I had 'fixed' their custompac, so they could tell their developers in > Canada what to do. > > Yes, and COND is easy to understand; it's also unnatural in that it > requires using the brain as well as the fingers. OK, got it. Thanks for > explaining. > > Cheers, Chris Poncelet (r) > > > > On 22/05/2021 01:23, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> When did custompack stop having SMP steps? >> >> Yes, COND is easy to understand; it's also unnatural. >> >> >> -- >> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> >> >> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of >> CM Poncelet >> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 7:01 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS >> Technologies >> >> "I don't like it when IBM takes away tools" - and IBM stopped publishing >> system control block DSECTs with ESA, thereby preventing sysprogs from >> modifying its OSes (or so it thought.) >> >> Next step (perhaps in 10+ years' time) will be to withdraw support of >> native SMP/E (and thus of CBPDO/CBIPO installs) and enforce using >> custompac (or custompak, whatever it is now called) instead. That would >> be a "progressive and continual stultification ofmainframe systems >> programming" and of IBM's progressively taking over full control of how >> customers' systems are installed, managed and maintained - as is already >> done by Micro$oft. >> >> How "COND=" works is trivial and needs no 'help' from "IF/THEN" >> statements. "COND=" just means "execute the step *unless* any of the >> COND= parms is true." Anyone who has difficulty understanding even >> *that* should not be working with mainframes. >> >> Chris Poncelet (r) >> >> >> >> On 21/05/2021 23:02, Seymour J Metz wrote: ESA's OCO? >>> What's that in reference to? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>> >>> >>> >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of >>> CM Poncelet >>> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 4:22 PM >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>> Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS >>> Technologies >>> >>> ESA's OCO? >>> >>> On 20/05/2021 08:43, Seymour J Metz wrote: Progress is also not made by pretending that a blunt tool is sharp just because you're used to it. COND= is a blunt tool,
Re: Global Mirror Distances
Thank you. Sent from my iPhone > On May 22, 2021, at 12:39 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka > wrote: > > Two things to consider: > 1. Distance => delay. For long distances it means synchronous copy is not > applicable. It can be asynchronous copy or some kind of "fuzzy" copy like > PPRC-XD or SRDF Adaptive Copy. > > 2. Bandwidth and I/O rate. The more I/O the higher bandwidth is needed for > replication. Temporary spikes are managed by "delta", but it doesn't mean you > can do a lot of I/O during business hours and rebalance delta on evening. It > is complex topic, especially when fuzzy copy is considered. > > BTW: Before you start you can establish some POC configuration. There are > devices simulating distance (delay) and bandwidth limitation. So, you can > have 9000 miles in single computer room. > Note: it is not 9000 miles of fiber optic in a suitcase - such devices are > actually used for much shorter distances (10-20km) and rather for synchronous > copy. > > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka > (looking for new job) > Lodz, Poland > > > > > > > W dniu 21.05.2021 o 21:34, Cameron Conacher pisze: >> Hello folks, >> I am trying to find out what we could consider to be a "safe" maximum >> distance for mirroring DASD from one site to another. >> We have a situation where site #1 will be thousands (9,000) of miles away >> from site #2 (across the ocean. >> >> I realize there would be a great deal of latency involved. >> But is this even possible or is it simply a non-starter? >> >> The second question I have is, suppose that I waved a magic wand and >> suddenly all my data was sitting comfortably in site #2. >> Could I (again ignoring latency for the moment) run a batch JOB or CICS >> transactions in site #1 that accessed the data 9,000 miles away in site #2? >> My thought here was if the data must absolutely be relocated, and >> people are willing to accept there will be latency, can we just access the >> DASD at site #2, rather than building a large data centre and performing >> all of the processing in site #2? >> Even if we run the processing at site #2, there will be many interfaces >> between site #1 and site #2. >> >> I know there are hard distance limitations. >> I think Global Mirror is limited to about 1500 miles. >> And I would hazard a guess that remote DASD would not be viable either. >> >> But I wanted to see if someone really "knows", rather than something I may >> have mis-remembered. >> >> Any thoughts/opinions are appreciated. >> >> Thanks >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pronunciations (spun off of another thread)
My wife who is Yorkshire born and bred asked me recently "what does baht'at" mean? This is from the Yorkshire folk song, On Ilkley Moor , baht'at. Drum roll.. It means "without a hat" Google the words of the song and you may be even more befuddled. On Sun, May 23, 2021, 08:18 Wayne Bickerdike wrote: > Nowt is largely Yorkshire for "nothing" in some regions "nobbut" is used, > meaning "nothing but" ie "he's nobbut a lad" > > On Sat, May 22, 2021, 08:10 Tom Brennan > wrote: > >> ... busy looking up "nowt" :) >> >> Tom (USA) >> >> On 5/21/2021 2:17 PM, Rupert Reynolds wrote: >> > Being English by birth, I remember working in Holland, and meeting >> someone >> > with the nickname "Suzie Did It On The Roof" (I didn't ask what she did >> on >> > that roof :-) ). The short "oo" as in "woof" caught me by surprise. >> Every >> > day is a school day, etc. >> > >> > But the UK/US one that gets me every time is "router". Here in England, >> > that's two words in one. A network router rhymes with fruit, boot, moot >> and >> > toot. With a woodworker's router, the "ou" is like gout, nowt, clout and >> > spout. >> > >> > "Two nations divided by a common language?" I say no. But I borrow >> American >> > words and phrases. Everyone does--is it time to call it "American" and >> be >> > obviously proud of it?" >> > >> > Roops >> > >> > >> > On Fri., May 21, 2021, 21:16 Paul Gilmartin, < >> > 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> > >> >> On Fri, 21 May 2021 14:38:26 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote: >> >> >> >>> Heh. When I was in high school we moved from Minnesota (where "root" >> >> rhymes with "foot") to Pennsylvania (where "root" rhymes with >> "boot"). The >> >> kid who sat behind me in Biology class was named Scott Root. He >> thought I >> >> was making fun of his name every time I said "root". I learned to >> adjust >> >> to my new environment. >> >>> >> >> I'm reminded of a venerable signature file: >> >> "Both Robert Root and Douglas Core (who keeps losing his Mail) have >> >> accounts on my system, and I expect Susie Mailer-Daemon to sign up >> >> any day now." >> >> >> >> -- gil >> >> >> >> -- >> >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > >> > >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pronunciations (spun off of another thread)
Nowt is largely Yorkshire for "nothing" in some regions "nobbut" is used, meaning "nothing but" ie "he's nobbut a lad" On Sat, May 22, 2021, 08:10 Tom Brennan wrote: > ... busy looking up "nowt" :) > > Tom (USA) > > On 5/21/2021 2:17 PM, Rupert Reynolds wrote: > > Being English by birth, I remember working in Holland, and meeting > someone > > with the nickname "Suzie Did It On The Roof" (I didn't ask what she did > on > > that roof :-) ). The short "oo" as in "woof" caught me by surprise. Every > > day is a school day, etc. > > > > But the UK/US one that gets me every time is "router". Here in England, > > that's two words in one. A network router rhymes with fruit, boot, moot > and > > toot. With a woodworker's router, the "ou" is like gout, nowt, clout and > > spout. > > > > "Two nations divided by a common language?" I say no. But I borrow > American > > words and phrases. Everyone does--is it time to call it "American" and be > > obviously proud of it?" > > > > Roops > > > > > > On Fri., May 21, 2021, 21:16 Paul Gilmartin, < > > 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 21 May 2021 14:38:26 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote: > >> > >>> Heh. When I was in high school we moved from Minnesota (where "root" > >> rhymes with "foot") to Pennsylvania (where "root" rhymes with "boot"). > The > >> kid who sat behind me in Biology class was named Scott Root. He > thought I > >> was making fun of his name every time I said "root". I learned to > adjust > >> to my new environment. > >>> > >> I'm reminded of a venerable signature file: > >> "Both Robert Root and Douglas Core (who keeps losing his Mail) have > >> accounts on my system, and I expect Susie Mailer-Daemon to sign up > >> any day now." > >> > >> -- gil > >> > >> -- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >> > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Global Mirror Distances
Two things to consider: 1. Distance => delay. For long distances it means synchronous copy is not applicable. It can be asynchronous copy or some kind of "fuzzy" copy like PPRC-XD or SRDF Adaptive Copy. 2. Bandwidth and I/O rate. The more I/O the higher bandwidth is needed for replication. Temporary spikes are managed by "delta", but it doesn't mean you can do a lot of I/O during business hours and rebalance delta on evening. It is complex topic, especially when fuzzy copy is considered. BTW: Before you start you can establish some POC configuration. There are devices simulating distance (delay) and bandwidth limitation. So, you can have 9000 miles in single computer room. Note: it is not 9000 miles of fiber optic in a suitcase - such devices are actually used for much shorter distances (10-20km) and rather for synchronous copy. -- Radoslaw Skorupka (looking for new job) Lodz, Poland W dniu 21.05.2021 o 21:34, Cameron Conacher pisze: Hello folks, I am trying to find out what we could consider to be a "safe" maximum distance for mirroring DASD from one site to another. We have a situation where site #1 will be thousands (9,000) of miles away from site #2 (across the ocean. I realize there would be a great deal of latency involved. But is this even possible or is it simply a non-starter? The second question I have is, suppose that I waved a magic wand and suddenly all my data was sitting comfortably in site #2. Could I (again ignoring latency for the moment) run a batch JOB or CICS transactions in site #1 that accessed the data 9,000 miles away in site #2? My thought here was if the data must absolutely be relocated, and people are willing to accept there will be latency, can we just access the DASD at site #2, rather than building a large data centre and performing all of the processing in site #2? Even if we run the processing at site #2, there will be many interfaces between site #1 and site #2. I know there are hard distance limitations. I think Global Mirror is limited to about 1500 miles. And I would hazard a guess that remote DASD would not be viable either. But I wanted to see if someone really "knows", rather than something I may have mis-remembered. Any thoughts/opinions are appreciated. Thanks -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
